00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by customers

00:04 - bank.

00:13 - Welcome to journalists roundtable.

00:16 - I'm Larry Kaspar.

00:17 - Our guests are DaniRae Renno from PennLive.

00:22 - Stephen Caruso from spotlight, PA.

00:26 - And John Finnerty from Capital Wire state Affairs.

00:29 - Welcome, everyone.

00:31 - John, we're going to start with you.

00:32 - Governor Shapiro, want federal and international action

00:36 - to slow down the development of artificial intelligence.

00:40 - What does he want to do, exactly?

00:43 - Well, I think, you know,

00:44 - the big thing here is we do have this this this whole standoff now over.

00:47 - Everyone is freaked out about AI,

00:49 - and no one seems to agree on what to do or who should do it, right.

00:54 - You know, in. Yeah.

00:56 - Because you have the president coming out and saying,

00:57 - you know, he's got agreements with the, you know,

00:59 - the tech leaders that they're going to take care of things.

01:01 - And we should at all trust them.

01:03 - And no one trust them.

01:04 - So, you know, so

01:05 - there's all this conversation about, you know, someone to do something.

01:09 - So Shapiro certainly has come out and said,

01:11 - we need leadership from from the federal and international levels

01:14 - to kind of take control. And that makes no sense.

01:16 - You know, to have every state try to do it their own way.

01:19 - That's it's just not going to work.

01:21 - But in the vacuum there is, you know, there

01:23 - is this sense that someone has to do something.

01:25 - So so you are even at the Capitol now.

01:27 - You're seeing all these bills being floated around

01:30 - you know, there was about 4 or 5 AI bills moved at some level in

01:34 - at the Capitol this week, you know,

01:35 - ranging from things like, you know, can you use AI and toys or can you use

01:40 - I think the House passed a bill yesterday that, related to disclosing,

01:45 - when AI is used in communications from the health care facilities, you know,

01:49 - so that if you get a message from the doctor that it says,

01:51 - it would say, you know,

01:52 - this is not actually from the doctor, this is from a little robot.

01:56 - And there's just this, all this tension of what about,

01:58 - you know, who's going to do what?

02:00 - And, at this point it's not really clear, you know,

02:02 - and of course, we are coming to the end of session.

02:04 - You know, we've got doesn't probably dozens of bills related to this issue.

02:08 - And it's certainly not clear that any of them are going to, you know,

02:12 - work their way through to get you figure in next

02:15 - week, you know, three weeks or whatever it is we have. So.

02:18 - Well, do lawmakers seem to sufficiently understand the issues

02:21 - here before they propose solutions?

02:24 - Well, that's probably that's probably a danger.

02:26 - That's probably right.

02:27 - But I think, you know,

02:28 - and I think that's why you're seeing some of these nibbling around the edges bills.

02:32 - Right.

02:32 - You know, it's if we were let's solve the issues as we can understand them.

02:36 - Right. Like that's why it's the, you know, with the health care thing.

02:38 - They're not saying you can't use AI, right?

02:40 - They're saying you just need to disclose where of a chat bot

02:43 - that's pretending to be a doctor. Yes.

02:45 - And I believe I believe there's even a reference in the legislation

02:48 - that says, you know, any decision, you know, must involve a human.

02:52 - You know, so it's not like the robot says you don't get treated.

02:56 - You know, there's got to be a doctor involved.

02:58 - So I think they are they are making you know, they're making

03:01 - policy proposals based

03:03 - on, you know, as, as comfortably as they can, you know,

03:07 - but whether or not they're going to be reached

03:08 - and they can't reach agreement on, on easy things.

03:11 - So, you know, complicated things are, is, is is always a hard, hard lift.

03:15 - Well, the legislature has just come back in session that they expected to deal with

03:19 - any of these issues, keeping in mind that they

03:21 - have a very limited number of session days. Right.

03:23 - I mean, you know, you heard that from,

03:25 - you know, Joe Pittman on Monday at the Press Club, you know, where

03:27 - people will say, you know, what are you guys going to do in the next.

03:29 - Right, month and a half?

03:30 - And it was, you know,

03:31 - I think his term was it's an open question what we do, you know,

03:35 - so it's you know, there's we have the election coming up,

03:38 - you know, and you got to think about sort of,

03:40 - you know, what incentive is there for, you know, Senate Republicans to do things

03:45 - to help the Democrats, you know, and what, what or to do, you know, to make a deal.

03:49 - And from the Democrats standpoint, you know, if they if they feel like,

03:52 - you know, they're going to do really well in the election, they may

03:54 - they see little incentive probably

03:55 - to do anything very substantial next week because they figure 27 will do it.

04:00 - All right.

04:00 - So, you know, it may be it could be quiet next couple of weeks really.

04:04 - Let's turn to another subject that Pennsylvanians are paying attention to.

04:07 - And that would be,

04:09 - these cameras that read license plates, often referred to by the brand flock.

04:13 - And, DaniRae Renno.

04:15 - First, welcome to your first journalists roundtable.

04:18 - We're so happy to have you here.

04:20 - What is your understanding as far as what happens to the data

04:23 - that is gathered by these cameras?

04:25 - Yeah. So I think it differs,

04:28 - based on which department is having these cameras.

04:30 - They're referred to as flock cameras.

04:32 - But the real term for them is alpr is automated license plate readers.

04:36 - Many departments have these alpr is that aren't flock brand,

04:40 - but the difference with flock and why we're seeing so much pushback on

04:44 - flock cameras is their national data sharing network.

04:48 - So, you know, I think based on which department has

04:51 - which brand of camera,

04:53 - if they've opted in to the national network, who they're sharing with.

04:56 - You know, if you look at records from specific police departments,

04:59 - sometimes they're only sharing with departments in the immediate area county.

05:02 - Some have opted in to that nationwide network.

05:05 - So it really kind of depends on the department.

05:08 - But I think what people

05:09 - are most concerned about right now is that nationwide data sharing.

05:13 - How about you, Stephen?

05:14 - As far as the data is concerned here, where does this data go.

05:18 - And maybe just as importantly, how long does it survive.

05:22 - Those are two of the I think the most important questions.

05:24 - And it as Dani said, it matters a lot which camera you're using.

05:29 - And what you know, who has them.

05:32 - You know, some states have laws that say information from

05:36 - these breeders can be only held for as long as three minutes.

05:40 - That's New Hampshire.

05:41 - Other times, it might be, you know, a months, it might be more.

05:44 - Flock recently downgraded the amount of time

05:48 - that they standard will keep data from 30 days to a week.

05:53 - That was under immense pressure.

05:54 - And even then, the language around it is somewhat wishy washy from what I've seen.

05:58 - I should say to for anything specific on these cameras

06:00 - that I would suggest people go look at 404 media.

06:03 - They have been doing amazing coverage of this issue.

06:05 - They are the experts.

06:07 - I'd say, in terms of, you know, where the press, so, like

06:11 - but I think you nail on the head, Larry, that like,

06:14 - you know, it's like how long this is data get hold for it. Again.

06:16 - It depends.

06:17 - And that networking quality

06:19 - the flock cameras and have is also not necessarily unique to flock.

06:22 - I think they're the because they have the biggest reach of any

06:25 - PR they're the ones for most like you know, the more people

06:28 - who optimize the network, the more data that gets thrown into it.

06:32 - And that means that data, you know, can cross state lines across jurisdictions.

06:36 - You know, a big issue for some Democratic lawmakers, for instance, was that,

06:40 - you know, data from a camera,

06:43 - in another state where abortion was illegal was used to help,

06:47 - a prosecution of a woman, who had cross state lines or to get, leave,

06:51 - I believe it was Texas leave Texas, where abortion is more heavily restricted.

06:56 - And flock cameras have tracker movement so that a local official could,

07:00 - you know, try to prosecutor.

07:02 - And obviously that's a, that's a, that's an issue

07:04 - where bodily autonomy is top of mind for Democratic lawmakers.

07:07 - So that and the fact is, the further data

07:10 - goes, the less you can control how it's used.

07:14 - We all encounter us in our personal lives, but I think the alpr is where we put it,

07:18 - into a criminal dimension.

07:19 - It's not just some company,

07:21 - you know, is buying your data to try and sell you a new product

07:24 - you don't want in a digital ad on Facebook.

07:26 - This is like the actual consequences of potentially breaking the law over

07:30 - state lines when you know those are different jurisdictions.

07:33 - Stephen, before we continue to react to the possible impact

07:37 - of these license plate reading cameras about,

07:40 - is there any way to say approximately how many these cameras are out there?

07:44 - In other words, I want to make sure that our story,

07:46 - our reaction is somewhat in proportion to what's actually out there.

07:50 - That's a great question, Larry, because I think that's something

07:53 - I encounter a lot in, government.

07:54 - You know, you got to keep the proportion.

07:56 - And this is the way I also have to say, it's hard to know.

07:59 - Most of the tracking, is done by

08:02 - grassroots groups that are concerned about technology.

08:05 - Like, when I talked to the flock, they did.

08:07 - Declined to tell me how many cameras they have in the Commonwealth.

08:11 - I should note, too, that they sell to both public and private.

08:14 - So, like,

08:15 - you know, a private landowner who just wants to track

08:17 - their property could stick one of these things

08:19 - up on their business, on their home, whatever.

08:21 - You know, so, but it seems to be in the thousands, according

08:25 - to open source tracking by groups like the flock who oppose the technology.

08:29 - But, we don't know.

08:30 - And I think that alone is something that, you know, again,

08:34 - more transparency potentially help get our hands around the problem.

08:38 - So, you know, if you think these things are everywhere,

08:40 - you that might engender a different response.

08:42 - And, you know, there being just,

08:44 - you know, a couple hundred of them, but, you know, again, I think that's where,

08:47 - that's where a lot of this comes down to, like, there's no regulatory regime.

08:51 - And these are the questions I think lawmakers are asking themselves.

08:55 - I think another thing, when we get into how many cameras there are,

08:58 - police departments are not very open with where exactly

09:02 - their cameras are and exactly how many they are.

09:04 - They don't want to disclose that, because there's been this massive defog

09:07 - movement of people cutting the cameras down,

09:10 - you know, taking the cameras away, cutting the polls down.

09:12 - So a lot of police departments, when you submit a records request,

09:15 - sometimes they won't tell you how many they have.

09:17 - And sometimes it's also hard to make that distinction

09:19 - between the automated license plate readers that are on polls versus

09:23 - the LPR, that might be on police car cameras.

09:26 - You know, they mount them on top of police cars.

09:28 - So those are different than the ones on polls.

09:29 - And the specific locations are super hard to pin down.

09:32 - So the exact number, I'm not sure if we'll ever have that number.

09:38 - Unless you know something as acted by the legislature or something else.

09:42 - And I think similar to the AI conversation,

09:45 - and as they both have pointed out, you know, one of the big issues is that,

09:49 - you know, these these things are crossing state lines in terms of,

09:52 - you know, you're having police in other states doing things,

09:54 - and some you're seeing bills introduced to kind of try to regulate this,

09:57 - but it's complicated because, you know, you can set rules here in Pennsylvania.

10:01 - And so you, you know, you have to do this or you have to do that.

10:03 - But if a cop in Texas does it, what are you going to do about it?

10:06 - You know,

10:07 - and that that I think is one that the issues, you know,

10:09 - people are talking, you know, should we do a moratorium,

10:11 - should we do something else because it's, you know, if you make rules here and,

10:14 - you know, they're being broken by police in the rest of this country,

10:18 - your laws probably don't mean much.

10:21 - You know, John, here's another issue that Pennsylvanians are talking about,

10:24 - and that has to do with data centers and their impact on the election.

10:30 - First, what's the latest on the public's attitude towards data centers?

10:34 - Briefly, you know, like,

10:36 - that's pretty great. Yes.

10:38 - Yeah.

10:38 - I mean, what are their complaints basically?

10:41 - Well, I mean, you know, it's

10:42 - the it's the you know, they're going to steal our water

10:44 - and make my, our electric bills more expensive, which,

10:46 - you know, two bad things, you know, and this, you know, this is, I guess,

10:51 - the reason we kind of looked at it was, you know, you look at

10:55 - this is an issue that, you know, 18 months ago, no one was talking about,

10:58 - you know, you know, we we talk about, you know, when the legislative session

11:02 - happened, you know, this was not on the, on the, on the horizon.

11:07 - Okay. Yes. This was not something people were worried about.

11:09 - And now it's, you know, the last six months, you know,

11:13 - it's hard.

11:14 - It's hard.

11:15 - It's hard to tell. Exactly.

11:16 - Sort of like when it actually started, but it bubbled up from the surface.

11:20 - It's this is this has been a bottom up thing.

11:22 - This is, this is, you know, the people at home are saying this is a

11:26 - this is a concern.

11:27 - And you're seeing lawmakers kind of trying to adapt and scramble

11:30 - to adjust their messaging and adjust their, their strategies for responding.

11:34 - You know, we've seen, you know, initially, you know,

11:37 - people were kind of like open arms. This is investment.

11:39 - We want money.

11:40 - You're right.

11:40 - We want we want, we need we need jobs.

11:43 - We need to grow.

11:44 - And so the initial round of some of some of the bills

11:46 - and some of the conversations about what we ought to do,

11:48 - we're pretty open and about trying to encourage these things.

11:51 - And then when they realized that back home

11:54 - people did not want these things, people started turning tail.

11:58 - And it's really starting

11:59 - to bubble up and especially in some of these really tight races

12:02 - that, you know, people are now looking at and saying really could determine,

12:05 - you know, the control of some of these chambers.

12:09 - You know, there's been a lot of talk about it, particularly in the Senate races.

12:12 - And of course, you know, it's hugely consequential if it contributed to,

12:18 - you know, some of these races,

12:19 - if the Democrats take control, that completely changes the complexion.

12:22 - I think that you have that on the docket later in their conversation.

12:25 - But, you know, clearly this is you know, it's an issue that,

12:28 - you know, you're seeing.

12:29 - It's really the public is

12:31 - driving the conversation at this point, which is a little different.

12:34 - And before we get into pending legislation,

12:37 - I'd like to get an update, John, if you can provide it on.

12:41 - The governor announced plans for an Amazon data center campus.

12:44 - That was over a year ago.

12:46 - He said it was going to be the biggest investment in Pennsylvania history.

12:49 - What's the latest?

12:51 - Well, it's I'm think it's splits now.

12:53 - I think every time they announce think

12:54 - it's the biggest investment in history because everything is more expensive now.

12:57 - Right.

12:57 - And I said since he's he's made a number of announcements,

13:01 - you know, it's

13:04 - a little hard to keep track of the data.

13:05 - So, John, maybe what I'm getting at is what is the governor's

13:08 - attitude towards data centers now, maybe as opposed to a year ago?

13:11 - I see when that plan was announced.

13:13 - Okay, I thought you're asking for an update on that specific project?

13:15 - I was and you didn't have it handy.

13:17 - That's okay. No. So yeah.

13:19 - Yeah.

13:20 - So clearly Shapiro initially was was very open.

13:23 - He did he came out with this great standards, you know, which were.

13:27 - I think from some of the more, skeptical people.

13:31 - We're not as stringent as they were looking for.

13:33 - As the summer went on, I think they tightened tightened up his,

13:37 - his, you know, his standards to say, look, you know,

13:39 - if you're going to be a data center and you're going to get our cooperation,

13:43 - you're going to need to do, you know, things like adopt, you know,

13:48 - you're gonna have to be report your electric and water usage.

13:50 - You're going to have to you know, be open to the community about what you're doing.

13:53 - You're gonna have to be working with the community

13:55 - about sharing community benefits, you know, and those type of things.

13:59 - And, you know, there are still certainly people who do not think those are enough,

14:03 - you know, controls.

14:04 - You know, I think he at the time he came out and said,

14:06 - these are the strictest, you know, data center regulations in the country.

14:11 - But then, you know, we get lapped because, you know, other states,

14:13 - mills like immediately go, you know, we don't want any data center.

14:15 - So all doesn't matter.

14:16 - So your regulations may be strictest, but that's not a strict as a ban.

14:19 - Right. So back to the impact on the election.

14:21 - Our voter is going to be

14:22 - thinking about data centers when they go to the polls just next month.

14:26 - I think they will be.

14:27 - But then the question is, you know, who do they blame?

14:29 - You know, I think that's the issue.

14:31 - You know,

14:31 - if you look at, you know, the governor in the governor's race, you know,

14:35 - are people going to see a distinction between you,

14:37 - Shapiro, and Garrett's positions?

14:39 - You know, it's a little hard to see what the daylight is there.

14:42 - You know, and, you know, in the legislative races,

14:45 - you know, it's you just who do you believe?

14:48 - Which is pretty much the way it is in all the races,

14:50 - because everybody's at this point is is pretty at some point taking some sort of.

14:55 - I don't like data centers position.

14:57 - Right.

14:58 - I see oh go ahead Stephen comment please.

15:01 - Yeah I think that to to John's point, like

15:06 - it was in 2021 that the Pennsylvania.

15:08 - General Assembly passed the sales tax exemption for data centers,

15:13 - where they don't pay a state sales tax when they purchase a lot of the materials

15:17 - that go into building a data center, the server farms cooling equipment,

15:21 - and that is projected to cost to say, about $2 billion by 2031

15:26 - and total lost revenue, which is, you know, that's a hefty chunk of change.

15:31 - And that passed with near bipartisan support

15:35 - or not near near unanimous support with only a handful of dissents.

15:39 - So to John's point about voters, I think voters are thinking about data centers.

15:43 - I think we're talking about data centers for a reason,

15:45 - because I think there is a good amount of grassroots concern about them.

15:50 - You know, I talked to one advocate who said they thought a, a, was lapping

15:54 - the enthusiasm opposing fracking when that first came to Pennsylvania.

15:58 - But every I think both political parties really and interest groups

16:02 - that support that talking about, you know, the building trades

16:05 - who want the jobs to the tech lobby, who need the data centers, you know,

16:09 - developers who are big players as well, and individuals in their districts.

16:13 - All of them wanted this as a way to cash in on the AI boom.

16:18 - And lawmakers were very willing, to play along and pass this exemption.

16:22 - You know, many, many states have them.

16:23 - We're not unique in that way.

16:25 - And so, you know, I think it's definitely if you're a voter, you know,

16:29 - it's a lot of noise on who to support if you care about this issue.

16:33 - It's the number one issue. And, you know, I think it's a lot of noise.

16:35 - It's hard to follow because both parties at times have been in support

16:38 - of data center development.

16:40 - Everything we've seen in the past year has been folks trying to,

16:43 - I think, pivot into election mode when people are paying

16:46 - a little closer attention to what is actually happening in Harrisburg.

16:50 - Stephen, thank you very much.

16:51 - And I'll keep the floor for a minute,

16:53 - because we're going to turn the subject to skill games.

16:55 - Skill games, looked like slot machines there in convenience stores, social clubs,

17:00 - pizza joints.

17:01 - And now lawmakers have a task and they're on deadline.

17:05 - What is the task for lawmakers at this point?

17:07 - Try to be brief, Stephen.

17:09 - Well, effectively, they have to decide if they want to, legalize skill games,

17:14 - the slot like devices which are now legally

17:16 - slot machines that have popped up in bars and restaurants, then taverns and

17:20 - corner stores all over the Commonwealth, or if they want to let a court ruling

17:24 - from June stand and, that have them pulled out of all of those locations.

17:28 - That deadline for them to act is the 13th.

17:30 - On the 14th, police can start raiding and pulling these out,

17:34 - the main manufacturer, those devices, and they're also going to shut them down.

17:37 - So, you know, it doesn't seem like one's going to be

17:39 - trying to violate the law, will, for we who we saw on maps.

17:44 - But, you know, it's up to lawmakers.

17:45 - And I think you know, the ways to look at it is the pro side is

17:49 - these have been a boon for a business that struggled due to high prices

17:52 - bars, corner joints, convenience stores,

17:55 - you know, do the rising labor costs, rising costs,

17:58 - you know, just get food and you know that perhaps that would be more profit.

18:01 - You know,

18:02 - if they're basically slot machines, then that means there's a great margin on them.

18:06 - Stephen.

18:08 - Stephen, is there a consensus among lawmakers to tax bill games?

18:12 - No. Because there's also people who say that they're illegal

18:16 - and they shouldn't exist.

18:17 - The casino lobby has opposition people who are opposed to gambling

18:21 - writ large at that position.

18:22 - You know, we had a massive expansion of gambling

18:24 - with sports betting and we're starting to see the impacts of that.

18:26 - So I think you're seeing

18:27 - a growing bloc of people who, whether due to and material interest

18:30 - in protecting the bottom line of the established gaming industry

18:34 - or just the, skepticism of the industry.

18:37 - Now, the state doesn't need the revenue.

18:39 - I think everyone kind of does agree with that.

18:40 - But not everyone's like the details matter.

18:43 - This is not just a clear cut.

18:44 - Legalize it or let them die.

18:46 - And that middle ground is vast, and finding a balance

18:49 - of all the different positions is difficult,

18:51 - especially when this issue is as well lobbied and funded as this one is.

18:54 - Stephen, lawmakers are supposed to do something about skill games by October

18:58 - the 13th. Is there a likelihood they'll meet that deadline?

19:01 - Maybe they'll even ask for an extension.

19:04 - It seems incredibly unlikely at this point, but I am always stand

19:07 - ready to be proven wrong by Pennsylvania's political institutions.

19:11 - Danny Ray, let's get you, involved

19:14 - in the story that has to do with the National Guard.

19:17 - Their troops going to the Middle East.

19:20 - Kuwait.

19:21 - Now, what is their mission in Kuwait?

19:23 - What are they going there to do? Exactly?

19:25 - As far as you can tell.

19:26 - Yeah.

19:26 - So they're going to Kuwait as part of, Operation Spartan Shield.

19:30 - So what they'll be doing in Kuwait is just kind of,

19:33 - you know, providing some security support for U.S.

19:35 - troops that are already there.

19:37 - This isn't something that's brand new or something that's only brought on

19:40 - because of, you know, the war in Iran, these troops is troop.

19:43 - The specific troop

19:44 - actually was dispatched to Kuwait to perform the same exact operations,

19:49 - you know, over five years ago.

19:50 - So it's not something necessarily new.

19:52 - You know, National Guard troops do get deployed.

19:56 - So it's, you know, it's when I went there, these, you know, men and women,

20:00 - they seemed right. That right.

20:01 - You were there, I was there, I was there when they were about to be deployed.

20:05 - The night before they went out, and they seemed ready, you know,

20:08 - they were, I understand their mission involves unmanned aircraft systems.

20:13 - I wonder what that is. Do you have any detail on that? Yeah.

20:16 - So I talked to some of the soldiers who were going,

20:19 - and they said part of their training did involve the unmanned aircraft systems,

20:23 - commonly referred to as sounds like drones to me. Yes.

20:25 - It's basically essentially drones.

20:27 - And they were just kind of talking about how they're training for this mission

20:30 - in particular, has involved some of that, you know, advances in other technology.

20:33 - Obviously, I couldn't get into details, but yeah, drones were a part of it.

20:37 - How long will they be deployed? Is that known?

20:40 - I'm not sure.

20:41 - I think it's over a year or around the unit.

20:44 - Is this, DaniRae?

20:46 - It's about how many people? It's two units.

20:48 - I would say over 100 people.

20:50 - But I couldn't give you a closer estimate than that.

20:54 - John, let's get you involved again and turn back to politics.

20:57 - We're going to talk about, Stacy Garrity, wants to be

21:00 - the first female governor in Pennsylvania history.

21:04 - So, how is she trying to connect with voters

21:07 - in order to accomplish this?

21:11 - You're taking a lot of time to think about this, and I like that.

21:14 - Well, I mean, it's the governor's race has really gotten

21:17 - a little difficult to cover, I have to say.

21:19 - Oh, you know, it's just.

21:20 - Let's start there, then.

21:21 - Why is it hard? Well, I it really feels like.

21:26 - I mean, it

21:28 - it's a little hard.

21:29 - I think when you look at sort of Shapiro's when you look at the headline,

21:33 - it's like she's taking on history and she's taking.

21:35 - And yes, she would be the first woman. Right.

21:38 - But she does have a a daunting challenge.

21:41 - Been a while since we had a Republican governor. Right.

21:44 - It's been a while since we had a Republican governor.

21:45 - It's been a while since we had an incumbent lose right?

21:49 - Do we believe we I think we've reported is, you

21:52 - know, Corbett was really the only one that an incumbent who's lost.

21:56 - So, you know. Yeah.

21:57 - Yeah.

21:58 - So incumbent governors in Pennsylvania have just routinely

22:02 - just swamped their challengers, right.

22:06 - So you it's it gets a little challenging because you want

22:10 - you want to be fair and you want to say, okay, this is a fair fight and everything.

22:14 - But history says the incumbent has a huge advantage.

22:17 - And Shapiro is now, you know, he has like 20 times as much money.

22:21 - Polls say he's up by an immense amount.

22:23 - Right.

22:24 - So it's it's a it's a little

22:26 - you know, it's like how do you

22:27 - how do you deal with this and say, you know, let's be balanced.

22:29 - Right.

22:30 - So yes, she she would be the first woman elected.

22:33 - You know, she we've seen she seems like she's kind of struggled

22:37 - with finding her message that right. Oh you know,

22:40 - you know, back to data centers.

22:41 - You know, she came out very pretty early and said, let's have a party.

22:45 - We should have a pause. And then but then what does that mean?

22:48 - You know, and then, you know, Shapiro then immediately

22:51 - responded with, you know, okay, about my great standards are more stringent.

22:55 - And now you're back to sort of what is what's different.

22:57 - I mean, a pause and stringent grit standards, right.

23:01 - So I mean, yes, we we have a governor's race.

23:05 - We have we have a Republican candidate.

23:07 - She would it would be historic if she won.

23:09 - But, you know,

23:12 - well, let's,

23:13 - Stephen, let's get you involved in a discussion about politics here.

23:16 - And, Josh Shapiro running for reelection.

23:19 - And, not surprisingly, he wants to help out the Democratic Party.

23:23 - And I understand in your story, there's a campaign finance report

23:26 - that says Shapiro gave $5.6 million to the Democratic

23:31 - to a Democratic Party political action committee.

23:34 - Now, as we just discussed with John Shapiro already has a considerable lead.

23:39 - He has a double digit digit lead, in fact, over Garrity.

23:42 - So where does that money go?

23:44 - What's the most efficient use of that money?

23:48 - You know, I can't speak to the most efficient,

23:50 - but what I can say is, to John's point, like, I think this is a sign

23:54 - that Shapiro is trying to not just win his own reelection

23:59 - and that he feels probably reasonably confident in that.

24:02 - You know, for instance, my colleague Julian, McGoldrick at the Enquirer

24:05 - ran a story a few weeks ago that said Shapiro had spent some, I want to say,

24:10 - like maybe 25, $30,000 on ads.

24:13 - Maybe it was in

24:13 - the hundreds of thousand dollars and Garrity had only spent like 266.

24:17 - That's a big disadvantage.

24:18 - So all of this to say, the governor then is going to funnel money to the party

24:23 - so the party can spend it on down ballot races.

24:26 - That includes Congress.

24:28 - But that also includes the state Senate and the state House,

24:32 - where there has been a historically unproductive two sessions,

24:36 - with limited bills being passed, Partizan gridlock dominating how things get done.

24:42 - Only bills are passed pretty much around the budget deadline.

24:45 - The governor does not have a very long list of accomplishments.

24:48 - There are definitely things that he can argue for,

24:51 - but if he's on a debate stage in future years trying to build a national profile,

24:55 - he doesn't have, I think marquee items like someone else in a bluer state has.

25:00 - So they're going to try and flip the state Senate, which has been Republican

25:03 - hands near continuously since 1980, with a small exception in the 90s.

25:07 - And that is, I think, where we're going to see a lot of the energy going,

25:10 - both Democrats and Republicans.

25:12 - We don't have campaign finance reports for those races yet.

25:15 - But anecdotally, I've heard that most of the Republican money is going to be

25:20 - the Senate Republicans to try and win.

25:23 - There's about five very competitive races, one where Republicans

25:27 - think they can flip a seat in Lancaster County

25:29 - for where Democrats are targeting them to try to flip those seats

25:32 - and get the majority of the Senate right now with 2723.

25:35 - And so I think that's where a lot of energy is, you know, especially

25:38 - for Pennsylvania, for Harrisburg, it's in these state Senate races, E5 races.

25:43 - Okay. Stephen, Stephen, thank you very much.

25:46 - I'm going to try to give Danny Ray the last word here

25:48 - because she's a brand new guest here on Journalists Roundtable.

25:51 - And we were talking about the unit, the National Guard unit being deployed

25:55 - to Kuwait. Here's another military story.

25:57 - This has to do with a soldier being shot at Letterkenny,

26:02 - Army Depot and review briefly what happened.

26:06 - And, what's what kind of charges have been filed in recent weeks?

26:11 - Yeah. So that was earlier this year.

26:14 - What we know is that, 18 year old soldier, they were doing a one on one firearms

26:19 - training and a civilian firearms instructor.

26:23 - Instructor, shot him and killed him.

26:25 - So immediately there were questions, you know, why was a civilian here?

26:27 - I talked to multiple firearms experts.

26:30 - And we talk when we talk about firearm safety.

26:32 - You know, you don't point a gun at somebody.

26:33 - You always assume the gun's loaded.

26:34 - So how did this young man get get shot and killed?

26:38 - So, that was immediately there were questions.

26:41 - His mom was pushing for answers.

26:42 - And now the charges have been filed against that instructure

26:45 - instructor for involuntary manslaughter.

26:48 - Now, I understand he's pleading guilty to.

26:51 - Right. So that what happens next then. Yeah.

26:53 - So there is a plea agreement signed in early September.

26:56 - The second or the third I believe.

26:58 - But those documents didn't become public until the end of September.

27:02 - So his guilty plea, he's looking at,

27:04 - you know, a maximum of around eight years, sentencing guidelines.

27:08 - He could be in there for, you know, 22 to, I think 33 months, something like that.

27:12 - So that plea agreement is in all likelihood, probably going

27:15 - to help him out with the max amount of jail time that he could face.

27:19 - Our guests have been DaniRae Renno from PennLive, Stephen Caruso

27:23 - from spotlight, PA and John Finnerty from Capital Wire State Affairs.

27:28 - Thanks, everyone.

27:30 - That's it for journalists roundtable.

27:32 - I'm Larry Kaspar. Thanks for watching.