00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by customers

00:04 - bank.

00:12 - Representative

00:13 - Jesse Topper, Minority leader in the PA House.

00:17 - Governor Shapiro wants the health department to enforce

00:20 - new rules that address communicable diseases.

00:23 - But first, what is the Health Department allowed to do right now

00:28 - when there's the threat of an infectious disease outbreak?

00:33 - I think the number one responsibility,

00:35 - not just that they're allowed to do, but that they are encouraged by law

00:38 - to do is inform the public, is ensure the not just the medical profession, but

00:44 - all throughout Pennsylvania are informed as to what could be out there.

00:48 - What could the remedy be?

00:51 - What are some of the suggestions and best practices

00:54 - to be communicated through the health systems to their,

00:57 - to the providers and also, to those who are receiving that care?

01:01 - So I think it's it's expert information is what they are,

01:04 - not just designed by law, but also have have the power to impart

01:09 - the Daily Wire reports that the changes would include

01:12 - goals of prevention and containment of disease.

01:16 - What is your understanding of what the governor wants to do?

01:21 - I understanding, as I read

01:22 - through the, 500 pages of the proposed regulations,

01:26 - that would take us back to Covid era type,

01:30 - restrictions that would be able to be imposed by the Department of Health.

01:34 - And I think that's why there was such a concern

01:36 - when you're talking about mandating, mask wearing, for example, in school or,

01:42 - having the ability to go get medical records of children

01:45 - without permission of parents or even entering businesses or home,

01:49 - dwelling units without a warrant.

01:53 - Those are powers that are far beyond the scope of what should be allowed

01:57 - by the department. As I looked over those regulations.

01:59 - That's what I saw.

02:00 - I saw an increase in what the department was able

02:04 - to use for enforcement measures in terms of shutting down businesses, schools.

02:08 - And I also saw an increase of what that bureaucracy would be able

02:12 - to do in terms of constitutional rights of individuals and individual freedom.

02:16 - And and I think that was what sparked so much concern.

02:20 - Throughout Pennsylvania.

02:21 - We'll review some of the restrictions that took place during the Covid era,

02:25 - obviously wearing masks and then the possibility of, vaccinations.

02:31 - And how does that what are the lessons we learned from that experience

02:35 - that you want to apply to this situation today with the governor?

02:39 - Once the health department to have more power.

02:43 - Well, I think we need to learn that they didn't work.

02:46 - When we talk about the mask mandates,

02:49 - I was involved with the lawsuit, along with, Senator Cormann,

02:52 - who at the time was the, was in the Senate, then the state Senate.

02:56 - And and we have that lawsuit which the administration actually referenced.

03:01 - As to as to the need of the regulations, which I thought was interesting.

03:05 - But we saw that masking a it wasn't effective, and B, it actually

03:10 - caused harm in some of the individuals who were forced to wear them.

03:14 - We also when when it comes to vaccines, I think,

03:17 - the public has been made aware of the vaccines, whether it be

03:20 - polio or measles, that have been out there for years and tested.

03:23 - Remember, in Covid, we were talking about vaccines

03:27 - that had literally been rushed through in, quote, Operation Warp Speed.

03:31 - People just didn't have the information at the time.

03:34 - And I think that's why it's critical

03:36 - for the department to be trusted, that it's giving good information.

03:39 - We saw what just happened at the federal level with Doctor Fauci

03:43 - and the distrust that has been sown,

03:45 - because of a lot of mistakes that were made during those times.

03:49 - And I think we can look at that and say

03:51 - the people lost a lot of trust in not just their government,

03:55 - but in institutions that used to be, sort of the trust was impenetrable,

03:59 - like like your hospital system or like your doctor's offices.

04:03 - And we saw that that just doesn't exist as much anymore.

04:07 - So we need to restore that.

04:08 - And I think the wrong way to go is to expand the powers

04:11 - of bureaucracy to the point that people feel their constitutional rights

04:15 - are being threatened.

04:16 - Well, now, you mentioned Doctor Anthony Fauci.

04:19 - What else has come from, testimony that he has given, Congress in Washington?

04:24 - And as far as lessons learned and theories as to how the Covid 19,

04:29 - outbreak started.

04:33 - I think the number one lesson from,

04:35 - from Covid was you cannot be overly reactionary as a government.

04:39 - You need to let whether it's the pharmaceutical companies,

04:42 - whether it's the, practice of medicine, the those, the,

04:46 - the infectious disease researchers, those who are paid to do research,

04:51 - who are, empowered with the ability to try and come up with cures.

04:55 - They should not be directed, impeded or, quite frankly, encouraged

05:00 - to meet certain numbers, by the government.

05:04 - That should be something

05:05 - that happens through the process, the natural research process.

05:09 - And I think the number one thing we learned through Covid

05:11 - is that when government, puts itself in the middle of everything, how people

05:16 - which businesses are allowed to stay open, what is considered

05:19 - an essential business, how quickly we want to develop

05:23 - medicine when the government puts itself in the middle of it,

05:27 - it is not going to be trusted.

05:28 - And quite frankly, it's not going to work.

05:30 - And eventually the people saw that and we can't make those same mistakes

05:33 - moving forward.

05:34 - Here's another item reported by the Daily Wire.

05:37 - And this is their understanding of what these proposed regulations

05:41 - could mean if the health department is given additional powers.

05:44 - They said that health officials could have private interviews

05:48 - with students, and that means no parents present.

05:51 - And what do you think of a scenario like that?

05:56 - It's it's an outrageous scenario.

05:59 - It's something that is somewhat of a nightmare for parents,

06:03 - who absolutely should have access

06:06 - to those kind of meetings if they are going to take place.

06:09 - Like, I have two boys, one in college, one is a senior in high school.

06:13 - I would absolutely expect that if he were to be contacted

06:17 - by any government official, or law enforcement or quite frankly,

06:22 - even the school in terms of his, his medical records or what,

06:27 - what he was experiencing medically,

06:29 - if his mom or myself were not called, that would be, a huge problem with me.

06:34 - And I think every parent feels the same way.

06:37 - Here's another possible consequence

06:40 - of, proposed changes from the governor.

06:43 - It would include, a new database

06:47 - with a history of vaccinations of, newborns.

06:50 - And what do you think of, keeping records, on this level?

06:57 - Once again, I think it's ripe for distrust.

06:59 - The job of, in my opinion, of of a department

07:04 - such as the Department of Health is once again to lay out the facts,

07:08 - lay out the facts as as they have seen them, and say,

07:11 - these are the options out there.

07:13 - This is what could be out there.

07:15 - And I think people have the ability to make their own decisions.

07:18 - Regarding that.

07:19 - Now, look, if there's a public institution

07:22 - like a school that says you need a certain vaccines,

07:26 - then the parents also have the right not to send their kids to that school.

07:30 - But in the end, mostly what we need to be giving the people is information.

07:35 - And then allowing the people and families, to make those decisions

07:39 - as far as databases and catalogs of people's, individual choices

07:44 - when it comes to medicine or quite frankly, anything else.

07:47 - I think we should be very wary of that, because there is no government

07:50 - of which that has worked out for in the past.

07:52 - You told us about

07:53 - some of your recollections of how Pennsylvania responded

07:56 - to the Covid 19 outbreak, and just how much has that outbreak

08:01 - that is now, years ago, in our rearview mirror,

08:04 - informed the opinions you have today

08:07 - about the governor having more power for the health department?

08:12 - It's it's basically shaped all my opinions because at the time.

08:15 - And, look, I'm not going to play, you know, armchair quarterback

08:19 - or Monday morning quarterback.

08:21 - We all lived those first few weeks of Covid.

08:23 - I was in the General Assembly at the time.

08:25 - We didn't know what was going on. We were all scared.

08:28 - There was there was definitely fear and we reacted accordingly.

08:32 - But what we found out is that many of our reactions, were simply wrong.

08:36 - You know, we I think history will judge us very poorly on how we handled

08:41 - our children's education during that time, setting our kids back

08:44 - when they really were not a threat for Covid 19.

08:48 - I think we'll be judged as one of the first generations

08:50 - to put our own health far above that of the well-being of our children.

08:54 - Generations that came before us didn't do that.

08:56 - They sacrificed on behalf of their children.

08:58 - We chose not to.

09:00 - I think we'll be judged purely for that.

09:01 - But I also think that everybody was in the same boat at the time.

09:04 - But for us to make the same mistakes again after what we went through,

09:08 - I think that would that would be historically bad judgment.

09:12 - Last question, representative topper, just how much support

09:16 - are you sensing amongst your colleagues for the opinions expressed today?

09:22 - Oh, certainly a great deal.

09:23 - And I don't believe it's just on my side of the aisle.

09:25 - I think, we again,

09:28 - all of us who lived through that, we passed a constitutional amendment,

09:32 - that restricted the powers of the administration

09:34 - during these kind of, natural, if something has been declared,

09:39 - a natural disaster or an emergency declaration of any kind.

09:43 - We did that for a reason, because we were speaking on behalf of the 65,000 people

09:47 - each one of us represents in the House and more in the Senate.

09:50 - So I believe my feelings are shared quite widely by members

09:53 - of the General Assembly and certainly of the public.

09:56 - Representative Jesse Topper, minority leader

09:58 - in the PA House, thank you very much.

10:02 - Thank you. Larry, good to be with you.