00:01 - The following program is sponsored in part by

00:04 - customer's bank.

00:14 - Sen Wayne Fontana

00:16 - democrat from allegheny county

00:19 - when online gambling became legal in Pennsylvania

00:23 - what was your position.

00:26 - Back then

00:27 - my position was that I I

00:29 - actually supported it

00:31 - I was there and.

00:33 - When when that legislation was passed I put up the vote to to have it.

00:39 - Become legal

00:40 - do

00:40 - So but a lot's changed since then that's for sure

00:43 - why did it seem like a good idea back in those days.

00:47 - A lot of the states around us where

00:49 - we're.

00:50 - At already legalized gambling and

00:53 - a lot of our residents in Pennsylvania were traveling

00:56 - to new Jersey back in those days to Atlantic city

00:59 - other states around us where we're passing legislation

01:03 - so we were losing all those tax dollars

01:05 - that we we could capture

01:07 - and as you know governments always looking for

01:09 - new revenue sources

01:11 - and this was certainly one that we decided to

01:14 - to capture.

01:16 - About how many Pennsylvania ins have

01:19 - gambled online and say just the last year.

01:22 - Well I mean

01:23 - there's millions in and

01:26 - just in the past year

01:27 - and

01:28 - the

01:29 - it's

01:30 - the the revenue coming in from

01:32 - AI gaming

01:33 - from gaming revenue is over six billion dollars of that that's come in and

01:38 - and

01:39 - a major part of that record high

01:42 - is the increase from online

01:44 - casino games and

01:46 - there's an eighteen percent increase from sports wagering

01:49 - so

01:49 - As you can see it's on

01:51 - on on the upswing

01:53 - it's increasing year after year

01:55 - but again

01:56 - back in

01:57 - those early years we didn't know why didn't

02:00 - even think about AI gaming

02:01 - and using your

02:02 - your phone to

02:04 - to gamble

02:05 - and all these prop bets and all the things

02:07 - that have come about over the last few years so

02:10 - it's changed tremendously tremendously

02:12 - well let's consider the position of your colleagues

02:16 - some of them have said that

02:17 - problem gambling

02:19 - is a

02:20 - public health issue

02:22 - so what are the consequences as far as you're concerned.

02:26 - It's addiction of

02:27 - their weight I've

02:28 - had testimony from psychiatrists and.

02:32 - Colleges I had a hearing

02:34 - not too long ago here in Pittsburgh

02:36 - on this subject.

02:38 - Folks are becoming addicted now not only

02:40 - are we talking about

02:42 - and.

02:43 - You know middle age we're talking about seniors

02:45 - there was an article just the new York magazine

02:47 - about seniors becoming addicted

02:49 - or talking about teenagers

02:51 - who walk down the street every day and she

02:53 - skill games all over

02:55 - in every every.

02:57 - Every business you can think of has a skill out skip skill games today

03:01 - and as I mentioned we had someone.

03:04 - Some folks

03:05 - from cmu offers a course

03:07 - about

03:08 - gambling addiction.

03:10 - Which so you know everybody knows that it's increasing.

03:15 - In two thousand twenty five

03:17 - the gambling helpline

03:19 - received the

03:20 - the most calls ever.

03:23 - About gambling addiction.

03:26 - And uh you're trying to ban the use of credit cards for online gambling

03:32 - why resort to that senator well I think it's it's a

03:36 - way to try to deter

03:38 - folks from

03:40 - becoming addicted

03:41 - I mean you could pick up your phone and make a profit

03:44 - and use your credit card to do that

03:46 - and kits keep doing it you know how it is with credit card gee

03:49 - you just keep burning it up and you're not

03:51 - really paying attention till you get the bill

03:53 - and then it's too late

03:54 - so do the good news to that is some of the big

03:57 - companies out there are banning credit cards

03:59 - I just want to make it consistent

04:01 - and

04:02 - I want everybody

04:03 - to do that

04:04 - so

04:05 - That would help

04:06 - it's a tour to help.

04:07 - You know

04:08 - deter

04:09 - addiction from people getting addicted it's too easy

04:12 - to gamble

04:13 - but

04:14 - being able to use your phone and a credit card

04:17 - and do we have any idea why gamblers choose to use a credit card

04:22 - over a debit card

04:24 - it's easier I guess you know and they can

04:27 - they can chase you know gamblers chase

04:29 - and when you're getting addicted

04:31 - you make a bet you lose

04:32 - you double die you're chasing your chasing

04:35 - even if you

04:36 - you know don't have the money and they're like

04:38 - with

04:38 - a cash account or a debit card

04:40 - with a credit card you can continue to chase thinking

04:43 - oh I'm going to get even

04:44 - I'll I'll make this and I'll get my money back

04:46 - and you're able will do that

04:47 - so you're extending credit

04:49 - that you really in some cases don't even have

04:51 - or shouldn't have

04:52 - let's put it that way

04:53 - so that it's it's gamblers chasing

04:56 - their losses.

04:57 - Sandra are you aware of any complaints from constituents

05:01 - about this problem any specific

05:04 - story that would help illustrate your point.

05:07 - Yeah there's there's been quite a few actually I've gotten emails about it

05:10 - there's a doctor in my Lebanon in my district

05:13 - who lost a lot of money has been featured actually

05:16 - in

05:17 - A different arctic eccles was

05:18 - part of our our

05:20 - our

05:21 - our.

05:22 - Table of discussion

05:23 - here in Pittsburgh just recently

05:25 - has been quoted in many magazines

05:28 - and it

05:29 - her problem wasn't so much the credit card

05:31 - as it was the self exclusion

05:33 - trying to get yourself

05:34 - you know

05:35 - not to be able to

05:37 - to gamble any longer but they continue to

05:39 - to entice her to do that

05:41 - and she tells that story very well

05:43 - and we're going to get into that later

05:45 - senator talking about the the so called self exclusion list that exists for

05:50 - gamblers who are trying to break the habit

05:52 - but first let's consider

05:54 - as you sat a couple of minutes ago some online gambling sites

05:57 - have already failed phased out credit cards

05:59 - so do you think it's necessary for you to pursue this

06:03 - yeah because it's just only a few I mean

06:06 - and and they could reverse that

06:08 - if they if they choose to do that

06:10 - so we're trying to make it consistent throughout the industry

06:13 - to to

06:14 - to ban them

06:15 - and begin you want to make it state law so they

06:18 - do don't feel like okay

06:19 - we're going to reverse it back because we've

06:22 - not making as much money this year as we made last year

06:24 - so you just want to

06:26 - you want to be sure

06:27 - that folks can't

06:28 - use that

06:29 - credit card

06:30 - to increase their their addiction

06:33 - now besides

06:34 - using debit cards for paying for gambling what other methods

06:37 - of payment are acceptable

06:39 - to online gambling sites

06:42 - while it's mostly

06:43 - the debit card also but also

06:45 - cash accounts don't go open

06:47 - accounts for you you deposit money into it

06:50 - and they let you you know use that account

06:52 - to to place bets when when the account

06:55 - is empty then they just shut you off at that point in time.

06:58 - That's the only other way if you're using

07:00 - unless you go

07:01 - right to

07:02 - to the casino then it's different obviously

07:04 - a sender let's go back to a point that you made a couple of minutes ago about

07:08 - something called the self exclusion list

07:10 - this has to do with what you want to do which is prohibiting

07:14 - advertising to gamblers

07:15 - who are really trying to break the habit and then

07:18 - it leads to this thing called a self exclusion list

07:21 - I tell our viewers about that what it is

07:24 - but that's the probably the most important part of the

07:27 - two pip bills that that I introduced if somebody

07:29 - wants to exclude themselves if they find them self

07:33 - betting too much or going into debt

07:36 - and they want to stop

07:37 - they could call or should be be able to call and they do

07:40 - and say don't

07:42 - take a bet for me anymore but I want to be on the list.

07:45 - Well

07:46 - ok they put them on the list but then they come back and say

07:49 - well here's a two hundred dollar credit.

07:52 - Maybe want to try that and

07:54 - to get even

07:55 - more they start right

07:56 - you're on the

07:57 - add list you're on the

08:00 - they're getting on their on their phones they're getting texts and emails

08:04 - about.

08:05 - That two hundred dollars that you can use and

08:08 - they don't

08:09 - when you exclude yourself it isn't from all of that it's

08:11 - awful it's not from the enticements that they send out

08:15 - and and we we all know that

08:17 - those ads

08:18 - are

08:19 - good geared

08:20 - to entice right that there there's no doubt about it

08:23 - it's in a lot of their ads are

08:25 - are geared to entice different age groups

08:27 - some are definitely for the younger

08:29 - of

08:30 - Younger gamblers

08:31 - in summer for for seniors

08:33 - there there and so the whole

08:35 - the whole

08:36 - age brackets

08:37 - male female

08:39 - young one old they are all becoming addicted because it's so easy and convenient

08:43 - to gamble

08:44 - and it's not

08:45 - even putting yourself on the self exclusion list

08:48 - isn't.

08:49 - Going to stop it and in a lot of cases

08:52 - and I've had testimony from folk facts that

08:55 - from folks that say that they'll tell you their story

08:58 - and how they've been enticed to keep gay gambling

09:00 - even after they placed themselves

09:02 - on the self exclusion list

09:04 - or does the gambler have to contact online gambling sites one by one

09:08 - in order to ban themselves from play.

09:11 - Now they they

09:12 - they can call of

09:14 - the the gaming control board they

09:17 - can cope

09:18 - and get them on the list

09:19 - one eight hundreds of

09:20 - gamblers another way to do it

09:22 - as I mentioned earlier there's a big increase

09:25 - in those cause

09:27 - they can help them do that and get them self excluded

09:30 - but

09:30 - there are so many different sites that it it's hard to you know.

09:35 - Stop them from advertising and trying to incite you

09:38 - they did that just keeps ca coming

09:40 - no matter what even if

09:41 - even if you're not using that site to gamble and you Abbot

09:44 - there's

09:45 - those other sites are still

09:46 - sending you ads once they get your name

09:49 - everybody has it

09:50 - so it sounds like what you're saying sender is that there is potential for

09:55 - misuse

09:57 - of the

09:58 - self-exclusion list is that fair.

10:01 - Yeah it's it's it's literally misuse it's just it's not.

10:05 - It it doesn't work exclusively

10:07 - it doesn't work if you're going to not

10:09 - if you're going to

10:10 - continue entice the folks to put their name on there

10:13 - to to gamble that

10:15 - they shouldn't be allowed to do that

10:16 - and that's what that's what the extension of being on a self exclusion list

10:20 - show should include

10:21 - my legislation says you

10:23 - you can't do that you can't keep enticing the folks that are on that list

10:27 - take their name put them on there

10:29 - and that should be the last I hear from you

10:31 - but that's not.

10:33 - So then the reaction from an online gambling site

10:36 - can be once someone has banned themselves from play

10:39 - that can just continue

10:40 - to aggressively advertise to that individual and

10:44 - come up with offers write.

10:45 - Yeah that's

10:46 - that's what ends up happening and there's a lot of folks will tell you that story

10:50 - as I mentioned we had a roundtable discussion

10:53 - yeah back in the middle of may

10:54 - here in Pittsburgh and in

10:56 - the foxo they were online saying that they

10:59 - didn't

11:00 - and it's it's a

11:01 - it's an addiction so it's a major temptation when they get those ads

11:05 - to continue doing it

11:07 - it's like any other addiction that that folks have

11:10 - and so

11:11 - you know we have to do our best

11:13 - I think as a government as the state government

11:15 - to help

11:16 - the tour

11:17 - and help folks

11:18 - that

11:19 - you know are going to be

11:20 - or

11:21 - Are on the road to be

11:22 - addictive or the ones that already are.

11:25 - Well let's talk more about the impact of advertising online gambling

11:31 - in general in other words

11:32 - just how much such influence

11:34 - is this advertising having on Pennsylvania and

11:37 - you did mention earlier

11:38 - that there's a certain campaign that appeals to young people

11:41 - and another campaign might appeal to older people.

11:44 - Yeah exactly that's

11:45 - in obviously the these big companies they don't have to advertise

11:49 - they do not how to entice they had to

11:51 - how to make it look glamorous

11:53 - yeah they

11:54 - you know you can

11:55 - bet the parlays you can bet it's easy

11:58 - put five dollars down and you can bet a parlay and win

12:00 - a two hundred bucks or whatever may be

12:03 - that try to get folks to do it

12:04 - they're making it sound easy

12:06 - they're making it sound like

12:07 - oh you can do it

12:09 - and and then that's just drawing

12:11 - drawing folks in

12:12 - and we have you know we have young old and.

12:15 - The skill games are not helping on the streets or people seeing them

12:19 - young people and they pay

12:20 - and how many you know young people have their phones

12:23 - their phones just like you and I have

12:25 - cell phones

12:26 - and they're using them.

12:27 - You know

12:28 - there's no oversight.

12:30 - You know in a lot of cases

12:31 - it's hard to determine if the person is

12:34 - the

12:34 - of age you're not of age.

12:36 - It's just it's out of control

12:38 - you know when I made that vote back in the day

12:41 - of.

12:42 - We have an obligation

12:43 - as a government I think to help

12:46 - this has gotten out of control gambling is out of control

12:49 - to the public

12:50 - and I think as a government we have an obligation to try to

12:53 - to

12:53 - Her help

12:54 - deter addiction

12:56 - and and to help the folks that have become addicted

12:58 - how much support are you getting from your colleagues for any of this legislation

13:02 - we're talking about today banning credit cards

13:05 - for online gambling

13:06 - and having certain advertising rules that would

13:10 - help gamblers.

13:11 - Handle better

13:13 - being on itself exclusion list

13:15 - my legislation is only

13:16 - have

13:17 - garnered about

13:18 - three or four legislators one being a

13:21 - republican

13:21 - so we got a little bipartisan

13:23 - but just recently

13:25 - one of the house representatives

13:27 - of two of them actually one duck democrat one republican

13:30 - are writing a companion bill to mine

13:33 - and so

13:34 - there's some momentum

13:35 - the hearings have helped

13:37 - and

13:37 - unlike anything else with legislation like this you have to build momentum

13:40 - the casinos aren't weighing in and saying yeah do that

13:43 - the credit card companies aren't weighing in at supporting me

13:46 - I'm not getting any of that support

13:48 - so

13:48 - They have their lobbyists and they push back

13:51 - but there

13:51 - there is some momentum

13:53 - at this point go for with this convenient bill

13:56 - being introduced in the house of representatives

13:59 - last question sender if pennsylvanians have a gambling problem

14:03 - what should they do

14:05 - but they should certainly call the one eight hundred

14:07 - gambling hotline for one thing

14:10 - the other thing is they should definitely

14:12 - put themselves on the self

14:14 - exclude your list

14:15 - and and then you know

14:17 - do whatever they can personally

14:19 - to to

14:21 - to deter it there I had to

14:22 - their psychiatrist now that specialize in that

14:25 - if you need help in that

14:27 - in that room

14:28 - make sure you make that

14:29 - make that call to somebody that

14:31 - can help you

14:33 - stay strong

14:34 - and not make

14:35 - make those of

14:36 - those wagers sen Wayne Fontana democrat from allegheny county thank you very much.

14:43 - Thank you to great being on with you thank you.

14:48 - Hmm.

15:00 - Hmm.