00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by

00:03 - customer's bank.

00:15 - Welcome to the pcn capital preview i'm Francine shirts

00:18 - are today we'll discuss AI regulations in Pennsylvania

00:21 - but first we're joined by Stephen caruso a capitol reporter with spotlight pa

00:25 - the state budgets do tomorrow June thirtieth he recently wrote that the state's rainy

00:29 - day fund is likely to be considered as a last resort sort of reserve funding

00:34 - for those that are unfamiliar what is the rainy day fund.

00:37 - The rainy day fund is basically the state's savings account in the same way you know

00:41 - yours and one might have a checking account a savings account

00:44 - and this is money that's been squirreled away pretty

00:46 - painstakingly over the last four or five years

00:49 - most of it coming because the state has better

00:52 - revenues than expected during coven

00:54 - plus a lot of federal funds coming in to

00:56 - backstop state dollars so so

00:58 - cause he was able to save a waste of money but we never really address the underlying

01:02 - financial issues of the commonwealth which is why we are here now

01:06 - those.

01:07 - General.

01:09 - Surplus funds

01:10 - were at about fourteen fifteen billion

01:13 - in about twenty twenty two and they've just been

01:15 - due the deficit spending over the last few years

01:17 - have been going down and down and down we're now doing

01:19 - about half of that all in the rainy day fund

01:22 - i'm sitting there and you know so far

01:24 - senate Republicans have made clear preserving as much as possible as a top priority

01:29 - but then we go down the list of things that

01:30 - you know potentially folks want to spend money on and

01:33 - it's going to become tricky pretty quickly and that's what

01:35 - I've been close during hawks are going to focus on a lot

01:37 - what would need to happen for lawmakers to pass

01:39 - a budget without touching the rainy day fund.

01:42 - They'd have to either make some pretty deep cuts or bring in a lot of

01:48 - new revenue.

01:49 - One option the

01:50 - regulation and taxation of skill games is one thing that

01:55 - is

01:56 - constantly on the table

01:57 - a court ruling

01:59 - earlier this month where he brought that to the forefront

02:02 - the state supreme court

02:03 - actually said

02:05 - that these are

02:05 - and back slot machines

02:07 - they are elite go when in taverns and

02:10 - bars and corner stores

02:11 - in social clubs

02:13 - so

02:13 - creating a regulatory regime with a tax rate

02:15 - could bring in i mean by some projections

02:18 - one two billion dollars a year

02:20 - that's a sizable amount of money

02:22 - but Matt nettle the head of the state's ivo a independent fiscal

02:26 - watchdog so to speak

02:27 - upset

02:28 - i would only get to about twenty percent of the structural deficit

02:31 - we've seen some other interesting options get

02:32 - around the table getting rid of the state's us

02:35 - sales tax exemption for data center

02:37 - projects also potentially taxing digital ads and the companies provide them

02:42 - you know i think

02:43 - in general though like

02:44 - that you

02:45 - will only there's not a lot of political

02:47 - will to do tax row Jesus we also see tax cuts

02:50 - for the general assembly so i'd say the fiscal picture

02:52 - is still kind of quality and known only to a handful people in closed door talks

02:56 - as we're considering potential revenues the governor had also proposed for several

02:59 - years in a row now legalizing recreational marijuana what's the likelihood

03:02 - likelihood of that passing.

03:04 - Well i think i didn't mention it because it seems

03:07 - quite low and a Canada this control board independent

03:10 - senate failed a few weeks ago when democrats voted against it they said because they

03:13 - thought it didn't go far enough in protecting folks who have been charged with

03:17 - marijuana.

03:19 - In marijuana court cases you know for for possession for district distribution

03:23 - also wanting to see full legalization but you know we just have not seen

03:28 - the votes in the state senate to do that

03:30 - Republicans have some

03:31 - pretty deep divides over doing that some Republicans voted no on that bill too

03:35 - so again we kind of go back to the political questions

03:37 - like is it

03:38 - a good policy

03:40 - or

03:40 - are people supportive of it and so far always in the upper chamber in the states on

03:44 - that answer

03:45 - so far has been.

03:47 - Maybe question Mark and they

03:49 - have a

03:49 - look at the boats.

03:50 - He had written that there are also budget maneuvers that lawmakers have used to make

03:53 - it look like they are balancing the budget without actually addressing our fiscal

03:57 - problems can you explain what some of those tactics are.

03:59 - Yeah some of it can be one time revenue i mean

04:02 - in some ways the federal government handing out

04:04 - additional money during cobit

04:06 - i think is probably a lot of folks value is now necessary

04:09 - as that was your rising healthcare costs and and

04:12 - all of the the trickle down effects of a pandemic

04:15 - and that was one time dollars so

04:17 - you'd also say like the expansion of gambling

04:20 - but we also get the more interesting ones a you know there was the

04:25 - lease

04:26 - of the stakes of

04:28 - farm show complex

04:29 - governor wolf.

04:30 - You could also just move money around the

04:33 - government can kind of just you know push expenses forward backwards on its books

04:37 - to try and just make numbers look better for one vote in time

04:42 - and you know then try to deal with it from supplemental it's

04:45 - like the idea of appropriating extra money for expenses that weren't.

04:48 - Foreseen mean.

04:50 - That's also been a common tactic the

04:52 - nonpartisan Walker lions have said that like

04:55 - Pennsylvania is among the worst

04:57 - at doing these one time

04:59 - of

04:59 - endeavors to try and make the books

05:01 - balance when they are in fact not

05:04 - and you

05:05 - know it's a it's a deep trigger books and a dream

05:08 - a deep

05:08 - book of tricks that i assume could potentially

05:11 - be brought to play this year if needed.

05:13 - He noted that

05:14 - lawmakers are

05:15 - considering tax cuts such as

05:17 - eliminating the tax on utility companies how

05:18 - would that affect the state's bottom line.

05:21 - I mean that would potentially be a one point five billion dollar loss to the state

05:24 - every year i think the you know i

05:25 - haven't seen a full five six year projection of that but.

05:29 - That's what it looks like

05:29 - definitely

05:30 - we're talking two billion dollars in annual revenue.

05:33 - You know so it's one of those things that i think

05:36 - seems

05:37 - politically popular because utility bills are soaring and economists

05:40 - economists are split but

05:42 - some of them do say that gross receipts tax which is what this is

05:45 - which isn't on

05:46 - isn't on profit but revenue all the revenue is really easy to pay pass on to

05:50 - customers so you know i think the thought is we'd get rid of this tax

05:54 - consumers will see less of a price

05:56 - or see

05:56 - a lower price on their bills but

05:58 - you know that also has cost and has a revenue and then

06:01 - if you have to find one point six billion dollars in cuts

06:04 - we're talking about

06:05 - you know this is concerned environmental program education.

06:08 - Human services snap at again were already down

06:11 - the pike are going to be some federal cuts coming

06:13 - so the fiscal picture just continues to get worse

06:16 - and worse if you do go forward with that tax cut.

06:20 - The house passed their version of the budget a little earlier this spring have you

06:23 - gotten any insight into how negotiations are going or any insight into whether the

06:26 - senate is getting closer to have a budget build up into the floor.

06:30 - I haven't gotten too much insight i think over all their

06:34 - things are

06:35 - quiet which can be a good sign you know folks are not

06:37 - yapping too much to members of the press or the

06:40 - the

06:40 - the the sixth estate of Harrisburg's lobby corps so

06:44 - that could mean folks are taking the association seriously

06:47 - you know i i should say that looks like just off of the logistics we pray gonna have

06:50 - a budget pass until July first the senate

06:52 - needs to vote on that house

06:54 - appropriations bill and by the constitution probation bills

06:56 - just like in the federal government have started house

06:58 - so you know

07:00 - just it's looking like it will probably be a late

07:03 - budget i would also just say at this point that's

07:05 - to be coming standing operating practices most i think every budget since twenty

07:08 - twenty two has been late by at least

07:10 - a week or two

07:11 - and

07:12 - and then after that you know in that

07:15 - you you've gotta go like fifteen days that i think it mostly doesn't impact anyone if

07:18 - you start getting into August folks are going to feel pain and of course they felt a

07:21 - lot of pain last year that budget was one hundred and twenty days late.

07:24 - Stephen curso capital reported the spotlight

07:27 - thank you for joining us

07:28 - thanks for having me

07:29 - more of the PC and capital preview after this short break.

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08:27 - PC in

08:28 - Pennsylvania politics and policy.

08:34 - Welcome back our guest today our representative Joseph received the majority chair of

08:38 - the house communications and technology committee

08:41 - and senator Tracy pennycook majority chair of the

08:44 - senate communications and technology committee

08:46 - in recent weeks the general assembly has moved several bills and at both the

08:50 - development of data centers and reg violating artificial intelligence

08:53 - center pennycook will start with you

08:55 - what do you think from your constituents regarding establishes

08:57 - who it is a hot topic in my district.

09:01 - Right now data centers are our

09:03 - forefront of everyone's.

09:05 - Conversations and.

09:07 - Because came up very quickly.

09:11 - Without a lot of info nation.

09:14 - And then there was a lot of

09:15 - misinformation

09:17 - so people are trying to

09:18 - find what's true what's not true

09:21 - figure out what's good for their

09:23 - local community and what's not good for the local community in some.

09:27 - Denison is not.

09:28 - For every corner

09:29 - it's not for every undeveloped land or underdeveloped land

09:33 - it's gotta be very thoughtful and where it goes and

09:35 - that's why i'm a huge advocate for local control.

09:39 - Represents seriously what are you hearing from

09:40 - your constituents absolutely the same thing

09:42 - i mean.

09:43 - It's been unbelievable what we're hearing from people

09:46 - and then seeing them the wolf will get all these

09:48 - different projects all these different land

09:50 - and I've said all along it's local control

09:53 - our stand with the communities

09:55 - we know some people in the mid part of the state want them to come there

09:58 - then bring them there

09:59 - if our communities don't want them then stop them

10:02 - don't bring them to our communities at all our local boards

10:04 - should have the right to say where when and how and.

10:07 - In one of the hearings recently and i couldn't believe

10:10 - how ninety percent of the questions weren't answered

10:13 - like you need to answer these questions

10:15 - that's why there's such angst in the community because you're not answering

10:18 - what people are asking

10:20 - and it's not fair to our local communities where they do that.

10:23 - Last summer there was a summit sponsored by

10:26 - us sen Dave mccormick wow where

10:28 - they touted billions of dollars of AI investments

10:30 - in Pennsylvania have you seen a changing perspective

10:33 - on the development of this industry in the past year and if so why.

10:38 - Well i think that we've seen more awareness to AI i think we've seen our public

10:43 - understanding more about AI and it was more putting the spotlight

10:47 - and we're Pennsylvania sits and look at investment in AI

10:51 - is a whole different ballgame than investment in the data centers

10:55 - and AI is being used everywhere i'm sure even on the

10:57 - program what we're doing right now using some sort of AI

11:01 - but that is not the same thing as build data centres all over the commonwealth

11:04 - there's new businesses that are coming out of the AI movement

11:08 - that are great for our economy

11:10 - and we're seeing other services come out of it but.

11:14 - We need to understand where these two things are and i think

11:16 - the spotlight on this

11:18 - has been great because it's a national issue it's really a world issue it's not just

11:22 - here in the united states or in Pennsylvania

11:24 - but

11:25 - i think we've seen more people involved in understanding

11:27 - AI from that where that conference came from.

11:30 - I think he also have to look at what AI is doing that's really positive so i have

11:35 - murky night district so they are using AI

11:38 - in there clinical trials

11:39 - so they are bringing

11:41 - life saving drugs to market.

11:43 - Three and four and five years sooner.

11:46 - You're having your mammogram.

11:48 - Checked by AI they're detecting breast cancer five years earlier.

11:52 - That's lifesaving

11:53 - that is your maybe stage one as opposed to stage four

11:58 - so that's really really important

12:00 - so i see AI investment.

12:02 - Very differently than the data centers because data centers.

12:06 - We we all know we need them

12:08 - we want a online bank where we're all scrolling on our phones and we put our

12:12 - information in the cloud but we have to be very very.

12:17 - Methodical on where we put them they don't belong everywhere

12:21 - and if

12:21 - like just said if a community doesn't want them

12:23 - don't put them there

12:25 - i have plenty of bound sites in my district

12:27 - put them in a bound site

12:28 - let's revitalize some of those

12:31 - bad

12:32 - previous you know

12:33 - industry

12:35 - leftovers

12:36 - and put them there

12:37 - but it has to be the local control

12:39 - of a package of bills that i just

12:41 - introduced and it'll

12:43 - keep local control local but one thing that you know

12:46 - Joe mentioned that the questions aren't being answered.

12:50 - Indie aes

12:51 - why is there in India there should be no

12:53 - is

12:54 - i have a bill that says no you cannot have an

12:56 - a place

12:57 - people need that transparency

13:00 - our constituents

13:01 - deserve and demand that transparency and and

13:04 - there should be no India there's no reason for an nd that bills running today

13:08 - my auntie April no good good.

13:12 - Or

13:12 - yup.

13:13 - It's critical

13:14 - when you hear from local governments riffing constituents

13:16 - on what kind of specific concerns are they citing

13:19 - well.

13:21 - First of all.

13:22 - We hear from local governments the education that they're getting on this

13:25 - there is none

13:27 - so we elect people

13:28 - to

13:30 - to do it they're supposed to do for our communities

13:32 - we throw them into the fire and tell them okay well you decide what to do with this

13:35 - right now i mean when i talked to my local officials are like

13:38 - we got elected and we've got all this stuff and

13:40 - there's not enough time to bring them up to speed on the the topics

13:44 - they're concerned about noise.

13:46 - Pollution

13:47 - air pollution from the hundreds of generate hers

13:51 - the water consumption we've had a lot of Wells go dry

13:54 - will this continue to to hurt

13:56 - the well water where the Wells go dry when i see water

13:58 - and of course what everybody's talking about is our electric bills

14:02 - they're concerned at how high these electric bills will go

14:04 - and those are all concerns that we all should have

14:07 - and there are questions that

14:08 - still can't be answered because when you ask these questions runs in a public hearing

14:12 - to these developers

14:13 - they differ they differ they differ.

14:16 - So there's a lot of research is still needs to be done on it

14:19 - there are some good things happening though the pa chamber has offered

14:23 - local communities local municipal

14:26 - leaders

14:26 - to come and have a

14:28 - data center discussion

14:30 - and go on the field trip

14:31 - which i think is critical

14:32 - you gotta go and look and see

14:34 - it's not nearly as sexy as i thought it would be it's kind of boring

14:38 - but

14:38 - valid concerns about water consumption

14:41 - energy

14:42 - let's look at

14:43 - a tariff

14:44 - for data centers

14:45 - let them pay for the infrastructure that we need here in Pennsylvania

14:50 - it should never go to the residents

14:52 - we should never

14:53 - expect the local

14:55 - mom and pop

14:56 - business

14:57 - to pay for infrastructure builds

14:59 - that the data center needs absolutely not

15:02 - you both described the issue of transparency and i

15:04 - are both sponsoring transparency legislation so i

15:06 - give you both an opportunity to talk a little bit

15:07 - about what you're sponsoring what those spells were do

15:09 - so there's i have one whole package and one of them obviously isn't in da bill

15:14 - but also

15:15 - in order for a data center to be approved you'd have to have two publicly

15:19 - announced public hearings.

15:22 - Let the residents come ask questions hear what's going on

15:26 - don't do it in the dead of night behind closed

15:28 - doors where no one knows what's going on

15:30 - i think that's really important i'm a huge advocate for bring your own energy

15:34 - you want a data center you bring your own energy

15:36 - you cannot rely on the grid

15:38 - that's for the local consumer the small business

15:42 - that's for you know the residents that's that's not.

15:45 - For data centers

15:47 - and the

15:48 - one of the most important things i think is no foreign ownership

15:51 - we have to maintain

15:53 - our national security and we've got to look at

15:56 - making sure our data

15:57 - is held

15:58 - in our country by Americans.

16:01 - Well and i think that goes back to the hole and the ideal too is that

16:04 - you have an md a sign no one knows who's building it who owns it

16:08 - and again it doesn't mean that

16:10 - you shouldn't build that you should know it but why can't you know who's coming

16:13 - to your house or into your community

16:15 - i also have another bill working on his referendum

16:18 - let it go to a referendum a school district has the rights go to referendum

16:22 - to build a new building

16:24 - to save the public do we want this right let the public say yea or nay

16:28 - if they say no it's a no go

16:30 - so

16:30 - on major projects

16:31 - let the public decide that we hear a lot about

16:34 - where the money is going to come into the tax base

16:36 - when your community understands that they can weigh their own options

16:39 - and they should have the right to weigh their options

16:41 - and i think it's important as we move through this

16:44 - to look at every option to give that control back to the local community.

16:49 - Center or a mom ago you talked a little bit about being in favor of

16:52 - having these data centers provide their own energy and that's happened in some

16:55 - circumstances says Microsoft purchasing

16:58 - the three mile island site yes and with

17:01 - the development of data centers have an impact on consumer energy either

17:04 - access or price on or is that going to be perhaps a regional.

17:09 - Comparison so

17:10 - one of my proposed bills is to tariff

17:13 - the data centers so that they would pay a higher rate

17:16 - so there would be no impact

17:18 - additionally

17:19 - if there is a situation where there is a a brown out or there's an energy.

17:24 - Decline

17:26 - they come offline

17:27 - residents do not

17:28 - so we protect the residents access to energy.

17:32 - The other thing we talked about was water

17:34 - and you know we're talking about these huge data centres

17:37 - but like everything else with computers we started off

17:40 - in the basement of

17:40 - college universities

17:42 - and then there now in our pocket

17:45 - so as this technology advances and it's advancing very rapidly

17:48 - the the size and scope is going to.

17:51 - Get smaller.

17:53 - The energy is going to get smaller

17:55 - and the the water

17:57 - the demand is going to get smaller and i think we need to recognize that and maybe

18:01 - Daisy chain

18:02 - buildings together rather than you know multiple million square foot buildings

18:07 - maybe we do smaller

18:09 - so that they can be broken off in in re adapted as the needs change

18:14 - but i

18:15 - am a firm believer with Joe it has to be local control

18:18 - and i feel like

18:19 - that

18:20 - people kind of forgot about the local control it's like no no we are a commonwealth

18:24 - and we need local control let the local people decide what's good for their community

18:29 - i have people in berks county that love the idea of a data center

18:33 - we have limerick they do not

18:34 - then don't put it in limerick put it somewhere else

18:37 - and that's what is so critical.

18:40 - Representative do you foresee any long term environmental consequences as a result of

18:44 - data center development well that's the biggest thing that everyone's concern with

18:47 - all of us should be concerned with that you know

18:49 - the big parts are when you look at this

18:51 - like when i heard the propose as a limerick three hundred and six generators

18:55 - those aren't little generators that you pulled with cord these are massive

18:59 - the size some of them the size of a semi.

19:02 - That are running on diesel

19:04 - that's a massive amount of fuel on site

19:07 - god forbid there's an accident what happens to our streams where it's running into

19:10 - and these are answers that need to happen

19:12 - and then there are other studies about warming

19:14 - that they raise the temperature in certain areas

19:17 - so these are questions that still can't be answered that need to be answered

19:20 - in order to be able to go into this the right way and environmentalist

19:23 - some of them are setting up the alarm saying look there's other ways to look at this

19:26 - we had a

19:28 - group in our office i said to them

19:29 - can we build them underground.

19:31 - The guy looked at me because what do you mean i said well we all know that geothermal

19:34 - the water temperature or the underground is fifty eight degrees

19:38 - so can they automatically be cooled without all the

19:40 - use of water so well then we have to get the heat off

19:42 - we've seen i guess it's in another country where they're

19:45 - pumping the heat into hospitals and genitals

19:47 - so there's other ways to look at this

19:49 - and if we take the time to look at it i think we'd be

19:52 - about a better place than where we are all right now

19:54 - there was a rally at the capitol roughly about a week ago calling for a moratorium on

19:58 - data center development do either of you

20:00 - support a moratorium and if so for what period

20:03 - so i don't

20:04 - support a moratorium because i don't want to

20:05 - make decisions for communities that want them.

20:09 - I i don't think that's the right way to go

20:12 - i think we will find ourselves

20:14 - behind the power curve

20:16 - so to speak

20:18 - and

20:18 - because there are people that do want them

20:21 - and i think it has to be again up to local control

20:24 - when you put the moratorium in place and you say absolutely nothing here.

20:29 - I think you're you're

20:30 - making a short sighted decision

20:32 - and

20:33 - like Joe i think we have to have all the information

20:36 - and

20:37 - once you have all that information i think

20:39 - the locals have to make the best decision but

20:41 - i don't agree with a moratorium i really don't

20:44 - we just pass out of the house a moratorium bill

20:46 - represented frills bill that gives the local control to

20:50 - a moratorium on the project gives i'm six months

20:52 - and.

20:53 - Six months

20:54 - one hundred sixty six months here

20:55 - six months to do that and they can consecutively do it but again it's local

20:59 - control

21:00 - so if they want to do it.

21:02 - Pass that bill out of your you know

21:04 - committee or whatever it is a meetings

21:06 - and now you put the moratorium on i think again

21:08 - we're handing control back back to the local

21:11 - news yeah because in the mid part of the state

21:13 - where some of our members on the floor say to me

21:15 - we want to build them here well then

21:17 - build on that but in this part they don't want it.

21:19 - So that moratorium works in our community

21:22 - what advice would you give to either a local government entity or perhaps a private

21:25 - resident who has concerns about the potential for a

21:28 - data center being established in their neighborhood

21:30 - involved understand

21:32 - call question

21:33 - get off Facebook

21:34 - yeah well don't get your information from Facebook

21:37 - i mean i i hate to say that but that

21:39 - that

21:40 - mentality do some real research

21:43 - reach out to the pa chamber and ask questions go to

21:47 - public meetings but don't just look at social media

21:50 - i think social media

21:52 - gets

21:52 - almost the mob mentality

21:54 - and

21:55 - i

21:56 - read unfortunately all these articles about AI

21:58 - and data centers and I've learned so much more

22:01 - that other countries are doing that we could be doing right

22:04 - you know the hydrogen

22:06 - cooled chip

22:07 - no water involved

22:08 - much safer

22:10 - okay well why aren't we using that

22:12 - technology

22:12 - closed loop cooling systems it uses less water than a golf course.

22:17 - Okay well let's let's look at that

22:20 - there's a lot of information out there.

22:23 - Do your research continue to do your research be open to new technologies and.

22:29 - There's some crazy stuff being prep post and you know the

22:33 - micro data center on the side of your house

22:36 - which i thought was great

22:37 - what a great concept where you get paid

22:40 - to have one to have one

22:42 - or the one that tried out in the ocean

22:44 - yeah

22:44 - the

22:45 - the floating the floating

22:47 - in space they're talking about putting them in space

22:49 - so i think you just have to be

22:51 - a little bit more.

22:53 - Due diligence almost like a research paper do your

22:55 - due diligence do you do your research find out

22:58 - talk to the

23:00 - opposite side.

23:02 - Well that's just it i think that

23:03 - there needs to be conversations

23:05 - when we close off one end or the other

23:08 - we don't find the right solution

23:10 - and we need to have people involved in

23:12 - the conversation of where we go with this how do we go with it

23:15 - you know they're coming no matter what

23:17 - whether coming to our communities or not that's a whole other

23:19 - argument that we put down

23:21 - again local control lol

23:22 - but

23:23 - we should understand where we're going with it you know

23:26 - we look back to the seventies when nuclear power plants started to rebuilt

23:29 - and we saw them all over the country where people protested and

23:33 - and for rightly so i understood why

23:35 - but also we need to become more educated on it and that's where

23:38 - i think the industry has failed

23:40 - oh absolutely Tracy began with this

23:42 - all of a sudden they were popping up everywhere

23:44 - you know the industry needs to educate also

23:47 - they need to hear the people and understand

23:49 - their concerns and then come back with answers

23:52 - but we need a a real education process on these

23:56 - and that's what we're not saying.

23:58 - Governor chaparral i proposed a plan concrete standards what does his program involve

24:03 - well grid standards representative Webster just passed.

24:07 - The bill out of the house which is on the way the senate

24:10 - to talk about all of what we're trying to do all the safety size

24:13 - all of the

24:14 - not increasing your electric bill

24:16 - knowing how much water is going to be used

24:18 - having the public input in it

24:20 - and where it goes now i mean it's in goshen of course re the house and the senate

24:24 - and how the senate changes it or approves it

24:27 - we'll see what happens with it but

24:29 - the governor wants to make sure

24:30 - that we put the safety measures in place

24:32 - to

24:33 - the community a safe

24:34 - when they do put these centers and if they do put them in

24:37 - that there are standards that are held they're held to a higher degree

24:40 - and that our public isn't paying

24:42 - out the nose for water

24:43 - and for electric

24:44 - that they know that they can only do so much and they have to report back

24:48 - on what they're using

24:49 - and they have to come within those parameters

24:51 - would grid enforcement be mandatory

24:53 - but i think it would be a marriage where once a bill passes in both chambers.

24:57 - Depending on where it will go

24:59 - i can't speak for the senate

25:01 - seat racing.

25:05 - I

25:05 - just have to tell you i just think it's more

25:07 - bureaucracy i really do i don't see any value added.

25:13 - There's a lot of talk about we're going to fast track

25:16 - i had a bill that i cosponsored with Greg rothman

25:19 - and after

25:20 - hearing from constituents

25:22 - that bill will never see the light of day i don't want to see data centers fast-tracked

25:26 - i want to see them go through the gp process

25:29 - what is your environmental impact

25:31 - you know i don't want to see animals

25:33 - that are gonna be impacted

25:35 - by a data center no i want all that information

25:38 - but i don't think the government

25:40 - the state government needs to get involved and

25:43 - put these

25:44 - i think it's local community and i just see that as just one more

25:47 - bureaucratic fast fast track

25:50 - and

25:50 - where you know.

25:52 - Part of his grid program was to.

25:55 - Go to renewable energy for a data center well we know that's not going to happen

26:00 - you're not going to be able to get

26:01 - solar and wind to the

26:03 - thirty five percent that the governor wants so

26:05 - i think it's you know in theory it's a it's a great idea but i think good

26:09 - impracticality getting it there

26:11 - i just think it's more bureaucracy a

26:14 - part of the issue that we've had on this is that again in the industry itself

26:18 - they haven't come up with

26:19 - standards so the governor is like okay well if you're not going to we're going now

26:23 - we did see some technology out of Arizona where they are using renewable

26:28 - because the sun is so prevalent

26:30 - and their their generators are not run on diesel they are run on so solar

26:34 - and there is they just passed a bill in Connecticut

26:38 - to do something similar to this

26:40 - so there is we could burn some of this technology in

26:43 - but again

26:44 - the industry itself just wants to build it

26:47 - build it will put her there and it's like no

26:48 - no that's why the government needs to step in

26:50 - and where the government maybe shouldn't be stepping in

26:53 - there is no choice

26:54 - because the industry itself isn't isn't doing it on it's own.

26:58 - The senate just passed

26:59 - or amended a bill last week we're sending data centers

27:01 - tax breaks gas equipment what

27:03 - effect would that have in the states bottom line.

27:06 - Save says about one hundred and twenty five million a year

27:09 - and and honestly these data centers supposedly are these huge revenue generators that

27:13 - why do they need a tax break by you know who needs a tax break

27:16 - the average pennsylvanian

27:18 - affordability is number one issue

27:20 - and we've got to worry about are Pennsylvania residents

27:24 - and not a multi billion dollar cut money getting a tax break to come to Pennsylvania.

27:29 - The senate appropriations committee also amended

27:31 - provisions similarly considered in the house

27:33 - that would eliminate the gross receipts tax on electricity sales and require utility

27:37 - companies to pass savings on to consumers

27:39 - how do you enforce this cost savings.

27:42 - Or if you gotta go back and look at

27:44 - that that would be PC would have to would absolutely have to enforce that but

27:48 - you know i

27:49 - i love that bill.

27:51 - We we should be doing we

27:53 - as you said earlier we should be thinking out of the box

27:56 - we've got to do

27:57 - everything we can to make sure that Pennsylvania

28:00 - just keep more money in their pocket

28:02 - and if

28:03 - eliminated the gross receipts tax on electricity

28:06 - so be it

28:07 - we'll figure it out

28:08 - we have to start thinking out of the box because we cannot raise taxes

28:12 - on our citizens it's just wrong.

28:16 - We're going to take a

28:17 - very short break we'll come back to our discussion i also wanna talk a little bit

28:19 - about regulation of artificial intelligence in just a moment but first let's give our

28:22 - guests a break and we'll look at what patriots cameras will be covering this week.

28:26 - The state budget is due tomorrow and that'll

28:28 - be the topic on the next pcn capital preview

28:31 - former speaker of the house built a waste and ceo of quantum communicate oceans at

28:35 - Charlie and Sharon join us tomorrow morning live at nine o'clock.

28:39 - On history and culture side of programming the

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28:53 - influence the action with penn state meteorologist John nice

28:57 - and licensed battlefield guide Jeff Harding that's Tuesday at nine pm.

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29:48 - i want to shift gears a little bit and talk about AI regulations representative

29:52 - Melissa schuster minutes sponsoring a bill

29:54 - that would impose safety features to prevent

29:56 - chatbots from encouraging self-harm what would

29:58 - inspire this spell.

30:00 - Well i think we've seen more and more of these

30:02 - issues come up especially with our children

30:05 - where they go on to AI and ask for advice

30:08 - we see an AI act as a psychologist or psychiatrist which is what we want to prevent

30:13 - but we've all heard those horror stories.

30:15 - The.

30:16 - Florida where a i

30:18 - told him basically you should take his own life and he did

30:22 - and then i was at a seminar where a woman

30:24 - shared

30:25 - the story of her daughter

30:27 - who eh i didn't tell her to take her own life but reinforce the way she was feeling

30:31 - so she ended up taking her own life so

30:33 - what this bill is trying to do is prevent AI from doing that

30:37 - i also think that part of this is

30:40 - to be reminded that you're speaking to AI

30:42 - is AI speaking like all of us right here right now

30:45 - you start to talk to your phone or something

30:47 - after a while you forget

30:49 - even you know it played some you begin to forget it and when you do this constantly

30:52 - you really forget that you're speaking to a computer

30:55 - not a human being

30:57 - so this bill is trying to prevent that from happening

30:59 - to

31:00 - have people know and have the parameters in place to guard

31:03 - against that type of

31:05 - situation

31:06 - how do you police any sort of AI regulation if the if the AI chat by entity

31:11 - exists outside of Pennsylvania whether it's in another state or another country.

31:16 - That's where you go after big tech and you forced them to come to the table and

31:20 - recognize that these chatbots and these algorithms.

31:26 - Are unchecked

31:27 - there there's no

31:28 - protection to

31:30 - prevent

31:31 - crime suicide

31:33 - ideation or harming others

31:36 - and that's why Miller ss bell and my companion bill are so important.

31:40 - Every three hours you are interacting with a computer

31:43 - thirty three per cent of our teenage children

31:46 - are interacting with chatbots

31:48 - every day that's scary

31:50 - and they're looking for emotional connection with a computer so we need to make sure

31:55 - that big tac puts those guard rails up

31:58 - and

31:59 - they're going to have to do it.

32:01 - What do you see movies i forget what the movie was with a guy i dated the

32:04 - computer the computer yes yeah what was that

32:06 - i don't

32:07 - remember but

32:08 - that's really happening

32:09 - like people

32:10 - want to marry there yeah right it's crazy and you're thinking this is a computer you

32:15 - know and the computer supposed to be programme to say certain things like

32:18 - that's what it's doing this isn't a human being.

32:21 - So we need to put as many guard rails in

32:23 - place as we possibly can our attorney general

32:26 - has been great about saying that he will take on these companies yep

32:30 - he'll enforce the law whatever the law comes down to in Pennsylvania.

32:33 - Even if it's not popular on the federal side he's going to go after him.

32:37 - In may i despair administration filed a lawsuit alleging character a i created

32:41 - personas that post as licensed physician and offered medical advice

32:44 - what kind of measures would you like to see a point and a place to

32:47 - protect users.

32:49 - Absolutely.

32:51 - First of all we've we've seen this all over the country

32:55 - because no one's taking them to task

32:57 - so the attorney general filing a lawsuit that's huge.

33:02 - Holding them accountable but we we've got to go one step further.

33:06 - We need to make them financially accountable

33:09 - i have a notify

33:10 - app ban

33:11 - which.

33:12 - For those of us that are over twenty

33:15 - and it takes off using AI takes off the clothes in a picture

33:19 - and there's no valid reason for anyone to have this app.

33:24 - Every time it's downloaded if this bill were to

33:26 - be passed it's one hundred thousand dollar fine.

33:30 - So

33:30 - you're you're putting your money where your mouth is

33:33 - and that attorney general would be able to recoup that money from these companies.

33:38 - It's just

33:39 - we've we've got to say no.

33:41 - You know not every kid needs to be on the Internet not

33:43 - every kid needs to have social media the UK just banned

33:46 - social media for children under sixteen i think it's a great idea

33:49 - it destroys their mental health the algorithms we know

33:53 - hurt their mental health.

33:54 - They need to be

33:55 - interacting with their peers and plane and in whatever and and not on the computer

34:00 - what specific guard rails would you like to see put in place to protect children.

34:06 - Well

34:06 - we we did the

34:08 - child sexual abuse material bill as you know.

34:11 - We've we've

34:12 - have eight defendants

34:14 - which is a great start

34:16 - but it's almost like playing whack-a-mole

34:18 - when you hit one you know the notification app

34:21 - they'll find some way around that we just have to be diligent and key pushing

34:25 - i would love to see parents be a little bit more.

34:30 - Hands on and taking the device away

34:33 - you know i have grandchildren and i'm like no

34:35 - not at my house you're not gonna plan you know that that's the one thing that.

34:40 - Even in my own office we had a little bit back and

34:41 - forth about the phones out in the classrooms anymore

34:45 - and

34:46 - one of the people that work for me was like

34:47 - you can't take the phones away from the kids it's like

34:50 - we're not taking the phones away from the kids just

34:52 - while they're in school they're not going to have phones

34:54 - because children they'll be able to interact with each other my son used to say to me

34:58 - how did you meet up with your friends when you were young

35:00 - i said what do you mean

35:01 - we couldn't text them i said no you would call

35:04 - the mother would ask answer the phone.

35:07 - Say what reading arena you know whatever and

35:08 - you'd go home with the street lights came on.

35:12 - What happens then show a game fifteen minutes

35:14 - show up they weren't common everybody.

35:16 - You know you didn't need to text six hundred and forty three times

35:19 - but the other thing we've all seen and anyone is watching this and all of us here

35:22 - go to a restaurant and look around

35:25 - for people at a table for people on the phone one

35:27 - yeah none of them are talking to each other anymore

35:30 - and i think those are some of the safeguards and

35:32 - like Tracy said there's only so much screentime we should be giving the kids

35:36 - kids need to be kids yet

35:37 - we played outside all summer long.

35:40 - Even when i was one hundred degrees.

35:42 - Instead of inside on video game we did play video games too but

35:45 - the more that we put safeco Tarzan

35:48 - will see a different

35:49 - feel in society and

35:50 - we can only govern so much

35:52 - like

35:53 - a parent needs to take control and

35:55 - sometimes people come to us and say well you guys

35:56 - need to do this and say that's parental control

35:59 - and the parent needs to do that not us.

36:01 - This year's election will include all members of the house half of the senate as well

36:05 - as the governor's race how are the issues

36:06 - regarding in data center development and AI.

36:10 - Affecting the

36:11 - election that that's coming up this year.

36:13 - I think it's a topic of conversation the topic yeah

36:15 - there's and it's it's not party driven either no

36:18 - it's it's very localized which is really interesting.

36:22 - AI is very separate from data centers yeah i mean i think

36:25 - people understand the need and the desire for that the

36:28 - technology to enhance manufacturing to enhance

36:31 - medical

36:32 - and research

36:33 - but then you look at the data centers and it and we're just not there yet and i'm

36:38 - definitely not there yet and i think that people are looking to their government for

36:42 - parameters

36:43 - and an understanding and education we pass the bill

36:46 - my

36:47 - culture and i hi.

36:48 - Jason or two to pass the bill it said p s a's

36:52 - on all of this AI and understanding it they're looking for us to say

36:56 - this is where we should be going loses some of the

36:58 - guidelines at least to give the educational part of it

37:00 - i think that's playing some in the local elections this year

37:04 - with the topic of conversation more than anything

37:07 - how's that they're affecting political campaigns.

37:10 - Yeah

37:11 - we've all put our bills against what

37:13 - i can do yeah well and my deep fake belly up

37:16 - which is now in law

37:17 - and that will you know definitely put a squash on some of the

37:21 - AI stuff but it's definitely in play oh yeah i mean we saw that in new Hampshire when

37:25 - Joe biden's voice was spoofed don't need to come out

37:28 - you know I've already won

37:29 - that can't happen

37:31 - we need our voters to have confidence in the information that they're getting

37:34 - and making sure that it's not AI generated or AI

37:38 - manipulated so

37:39 - yeah we're we're all

37:40 - very very.

37:42 - Big one yeah

37:43 - what qualifies as digital forgery.

37:47 - Anything that is intentionally manipulated to haunt writing

37:51 - and

37:52 - i think it's an

37:54 - adobe

37:55 - has the technology where they show every iteration so

37:59 - yeah

37:59 - they took a picture of us sitting here the three of us

38:02 - then someone puts a hat on each one of our heads

38:04 - there's a little thing.

38:06 - That has to be a little like it's just a

38:08 - little symbol in the corner that you could tip

38:10 - hit

38:10 - and they'll tell you who made the change

38:12 - in weather changed me what the original picture was

38:14 - and that's

38:15 - with trying to see

38:17 - in the industry to push that as a standard that everything.

38:20 - That tech

38:21 - savvy tag

38:22 - almost like

38:23 - the ingredients

38:24 - in a product

38:25 - and this is the angry idiot label.

38:28 - How do you draw a fine line between malicious use of altering an image vs

38:32 - say political satire an entity like the onion would put out.

38:36 - Well the cheap fake bill

38:38 - protects that satire piece in the first amendment

38:41 - i think you have to have a little bit of a thick skin

38:44 - and and just be realistic and say come on.

38:46 - Funny and common sense

38:48 - you know funny is a lie

38:49 - yeah you can't be funny anymore you will you watch old comedians like adult.

38:54 - Stuff that they used to say and get away with

38:56 - there is a line we got gotta laugh when someone does something okay that was

39:00 - done at

39:01 - Jess just at a comedy

39:02 - it might have been politically oriented but still

39:04 - but it's still funny

39:05 - yeah

39:06 - i saying having someone call and say don't need to come out and vote for me cause

39:09 - I've already have yes that's malicious so

39:11 - yeah.

39:12 - In December of last year president trump signed an executive order and

39:16 - basically discouraging states from regulating AI for the

39:18 - next ten years how does that play out with states attempts to

39:22 - legislate and perhaps protect

39:24 - individuals.

39:26 - Hasn't stopped us in one bet we are going to continue

39:28 - to push forward and the attorney general said.

39:31 - Nope

39:32 - we we are absolutely in lock step on that we

39:34 - are moving forward to protect Pennsylvania and

39:37 - if we waited for the federal government i don't even know where we are

39:40 - i mean i just

39:41 - i can't even imagine

39:43 - we we are not we work really well together the two cock mrs

39:47 - we recognize that AI is so critical

39:50 - but it needs to be regulated it needs to be

39:53 - on guard rails put up to protect people

39:56 - from those bad actors that are out there one thing that we're saying is when we speak

39:59 - to colleagues from around the country other

40:01 - legislators oh yeah they all feel the same way

40:04 - that none of us are stopping

40:05 - nope

40:06 - as a man matter of fact we've proposed

40:09 - to the other legislators around the country when we have the conferences of states

40:13 - to say let's take one bill that we all pass in every legislative body

40:17 - yet

40:18 - now becomes law of the land because we've all done it also generates have agreed to

40:22 - this legislation so if the feds aren't going

40:24 - to do it then we'll do it individually estate

40:27 - walk

40:27 - past it and every one of our bodies

40:29 - and we talk about it with others

40:31 - legislators from other states on what we're working

40:33 - on and what they're working on and what makes sense

40:36 - and what we can work on together in fact we're out in Chicago next month

40:39 - talking about it

40:40 - to talk about it and get together with other states

40:42 - so that we can build a coalition and say to the

40:45 - federal government look this is what we're doing

40:47 - we're doing your heavy lifting

40:49 - you guys have got to let us continue and we're going to continue

40:53 - are

40:53 - you aware of any federal efforts to help streamline AI regulation.

40:57 - Really we haven't heard anything from members of

41:00 - congress who want to push it but it's gone nowhere.

41:03 - That you developed an AI act which went into effect roughly

41:06 - about a year ago what lessons can we learn from that.

41:10 - I think they're doing some really smart stuff

41:12 - they really are and

41:14 - the e u

41:15 - is

41:15 - actually a lot further along than we are

41:18 - which is kind of surprising because they seem to be a little bit dysfunctional but i.

41:23 - They've taken an

41:25 - a safety approach is probably the best way to put it

41:27 - they're worried about.

41:30 - Consumer safety and i think that's what we need to focus

41:32 - we are focused on

41:34 - and will continue to focus on protecting our children

41:37 - and our elders from you know being exploited

41:40 - with

41:40 - deep fakes that are you know AI generated you know in advertising i mean it's

41:44 - everybody everybody falls under the protection that we need to make sure that

41:48 - everyone is protected i think that

41:50 - sometimes

41:51 - we need to look

41:52 - like we said way out of the box we should be

41:54 - looking at what they're doing around the world

41:56 - there's there's things that are great that we can bring back to the united states

42:00 - we should be doing these things

42:02 - and we should be using some of the things that they've already put forth

42:05 - into what bills that we pass

42:08 - we often say let's talk to the other countries

42:10 - too it's not only our states but other countries

42:13 - can we learn from them as they learn from us.

42:16 - How do you legislate ethics as AI is being developed so that it is used to benefits

42:20 - that society that's a real that's a real tough one.

42:23 - That is

42:24 - just.

42:25 - You have to look at things and say okay.

42:29 - How is this going to hurt a consumer or how is it

42:31 - going to protect the consumer at the end of the day

42:33 - i mean everyone has different ethics.

42:36 - So it's it's difficult

42:38 - and that's why some of these bills really get debated

42:41 - and we go back and forth for awhile like a bill

42:43 - could sit for a year before we're ready to run it

42:46 - out of committee and then to get it through the floor

42:47 - of the house and then to get it over this on it.

42:50 - Because everyone has different beliefs

42:52 - but you know i think that for the most part we

42:55 - all feel the same way at least our committee

42:57 - we do on how this needs to be looked at ethically

43:01 - and there are some things you

43:02 - know we're not going to do that

43:04 - yeah

43:04 - it's it's very interesting you think that and

43:07 - i think this is probably the least

43:09 - partisan committee yes

43:11 - we all get together and we're like oh we

43:13 - we gotta we gotta fix this real quick and.

43:16 - All four ch years we talk all the time.

43:18 - We really try to work together to get our

43:21 - priorities through both the house and the senate

43:24 - and onto the governor's desk and

43:26 - we

43:26 - are stakeholders are a huge part i mean we are always working with our stakeholders

43:31 - you know

43:31 - getting them to where they can accept what we're

43:33 - doing and even big tech comes in and tells us hey.

43:37 - We don't really like it but

43:38 - you're right

43:39 - okay

43:40 - and let's you know age verification or we can't do it oh please

43:44 - of course you can you can tell

43:45 - we know you can do it you don't want to do it but you're gonna do it

43:48 - so

43:49 - it is a lot of conversations a lot of back and forth a lot of research we do a

43:52 - tremendous amount of research but

43:54 - and i say that our staffs are great

43:57 - there

43:57 - are edis who work for us and our research analysts their maser on top of it

44:02 - and it's coming at them like a firehose technology what we did yesterday is

44:06 - completely different today yet literally it can be day to day

44:09 - where it's changed so much they've gotta be

44:11 - on top of it and it it's a lot to take a quick

44:13 - breather if you're concerned that AI will lead to humans losing aren't ability to

44:17 - perform certain tasks or that our jobs will be outsourced as a result of

44:20 - relying too much.

44:22 - I think it's an enhancement tool i don't

44:24 - i.

44:25 - It's kind of like the electric typewriter

44:27 - and then the computer it just makes your job

44:30 - easier

44:31 - i don't think you will see.

44:34 - Jobs lost you'll see shifts.

44:36 - You know we won't need as many of this we'll need more of that

44:39 - you'll see some retraining but i i think

44:42 - we'll be ok

44:43 - i think that

44:44 - we are a little different on this as you there is going

44:46 - to be job loss but i also think that the way we make it up

44:49 - is education

44:50 - we need to make sure we're educating the public to understand

44:53 - where things are going and the shifts

44:55 - like we're seeing the trades

44:57 - we need a lot more people back on the tray absolutely

45:00 - and we need to shift the way we were looking at things

45:03 - okay

45:04 - AI is handling this over here now

45:06 - let's do this so we had we often says we look at public education

45:10 - we can't teach the same way we did fifty years ago

45:13 - we have to be more fluid in the way we're teaching

45:15 - because we need to move with the times

45:18 - so there are things that we taught in school that we don't need to teach anymore

45:21 - because there's no place for it anymore

45:22 - it's either been taken up by maybe AI or it's just

45:25 - not necessary any longer

45:27 - so we need to look and be fluid in the way that

45:29 - we're looking at how we're we're training

45:32 - our staff and the public in the future

45:34 - there's various pieces of legislation dealing

45:36 - with AI and data center development that are

45:38 - living through the general assembly as the sessions getting close to wrapping up

45:42 - what do you expect to dance.

45:45 - I think the villages came out of the house on the moratorium one

45:48 - i think the chat bot bill.

45:50 - Will go yet

45:52 - a bill that we.

45:53 - Are enrolled bill will go and potentially the foreign

45:56 - ownership bell will go.

45:59 - All the restrictions on how much

46:01 - they could you know electric bills

46:03 - because of the data centers and terrifying them i think we'll see something

46:06 - completely terrible yeah i i agree the tariff bill is huge we we cannot expect our

46:11 - average ratepayer

46:12 - to have to carry the cost for a data center that's making millions and millions and

46:17 - millions of dollars it's just not right so

46:19 - the tariff bill will definitely probably.

46:21 - I guess I've been center or Tracy pennycook majority chair of the senate

46:24 - communications and technology committee and representative Joseph Reese the majority

46:28 - chair of the house communications and technology committee

46:30 - thank you

46:31 - for joining us thank you thank you.

46:33 - He

46:33 - recently spoke with representative Eric divines

46:36 - about his proposal to give Pennsylvania families two hundred

46:38 - and fifty dollars for their fourth of July barbecues.

46:43 - Welcome to our program you are proposing

46:45 - legislation to supply two hundred and fifty dollars

46:48 - to families in Pennsylvania for their fourth of July barbecues

46:52 - why propose this.

46:54 - So we over corrected

46:57 - nine hundred roughly nine hundred and twenty five million dollars

47:00 - so

47:01 - i want to give that money back

47:03 - to the folks to pay it and i want to give it back to the.

47:06 - Pennsylvania

47:07 - but i also want to take this time as we celebrate america's two fifty.

47:11 - I want folks to

47:13 - to be able to enjoy enjoy their picnic right

47:15 - we know folks are hurting at the gas pumps

47:18 - we know food prices everybody's hurting right now

47:21 - being

47:21 - the state over collected this money let's give it back

47:24 - not give anybody any reason

47:27 - not to celebrate

47:28 - america.

47:30 - That was

47:30 - kind of the

47:31 - principle behind

47:33 - where did this over collected ma we come from.

47:36 - So it would have been

47:37 - tax revenue you know so Pennsylvania overspent you know.

47:42 - Folks have been reaching out hey this is a stimulus

47:45 - you know you're going to you're going to you're going to create inflation you know

47:47 - you're you're going to make inflation go higher than it is

47:49 - you're going to take money from the budget this money was it for transportation was

47:53 - for education this was overpayment in the sense that

47:57 - folks in Pennsylvania they overspent.

48:00 - On our tax collections

48:02 - and the state has a surplus right now.

48:04 - Can you walk us through the process about how other

48:06 - people in Pennsylvania would be able to claim this money.

48:10 - So those specifics wouldn't

48:12 - you know i think we would just do it as normal tax

48:15 - collection right whenever we would do your refund

48:18 - through your state

48:19 - income tax you get a refund that way

48:21 - i think we would just go through that same principle of eight years or

48:25 - if

48:25 - if you qualify for a household of Pennsylvania

48:27 - years a two hundred and fifty dollar check for you

48:29 - keep it simple

48:30 - you know this isn't something there's no gotcha here

48:33 - i don't want to come back tax off of.

48:36 - Folks spend the money

48:37 - we're going to dump it back into the economy or

48:39 - small businesses are going to benefit from it

48:41 - and we will we will create spending her.

48:44 - How did you come up with the idea for this legislation.

48:48 - Sitting in approach when we were

48:50 - i dunno if it was the beginning of may but we had this money that was extra

48:54 - and what

48:56 - what

48:56 - better way to give it back to the folks right so i also believe that

49:00 - i also believe in small government we shouldn't be living outside of our means

49:04 - and folks are hurting right now you know let's

49:07 - let's be clear about that

49:09 - and if we overcorrected

49:10 - it's time to give give somebody back and i also believe moving forward

49:14 - we need to tighten it up out here in Harrisburg

49:16 - we need to live within our means in Harrisburg.

49:19 - What feedback have you heard regarding this legislation

49:22 - so most of the discipline pop

49:24 - but I've heard from some folks like i said you know this was just gonna

49:27 - it's just gonna drive up and Fraser but i don't think people understand

49:31 - this is money that was overspent you know

49:34 - if i go to the grocery store

49:35 - and my bills one hundred dollars and i give the clerk one hundred and twenty bucks

49:39 - i want that twenty dollars back

49:41 - and i look at this is a similar we we over.

49:44 - And it's just getting that money back

49:46 - into the folks'

49:47 - hands now you have people that are just haters out there

49:49 - in general you know they're going to find something

49:51 - but

49:52 - it's

49:52 - i truly believe that your average family of four that are struggling right now

49:57 - this is beneficial

49:58 - this will not drive up the number on a budget this will not drive up inflation

50:02 - the super two hundred and fifty dollars back into the pockets of those everyday folks

50:07 - they could go down to butcher store maybe instead of buying hamburgers or

50:10 - cheeseburgers for the fourth of July

50:12 - maybe they get that steak for the family or

50:14 - maybe in the morning before they go spend family

50:17 - time they go to Starbucks or dunkin donuts

50:19 - whenever that

50:20 - whatever your picnic is right whenever we can be a family on.

50:24 - Whatever we can

50:25 - with that two hundred and fifty dollars must be a family and

50:28 - really

50:29 - let's go one step farther just imagine a four or five.

50:32 - Families got together as o'clock

50:34 - now you're talking twelve hundred and fifty bucks for a family of four or five you

50:37 - could probably go get some fireworks after that right

50:40 - after your your picnic

50:41 - let's be america let's put family structure into this for

50:45 - i hear

50:46 - and let's truly get back to the fundamentals of america lastly where is this built in

50:50 - the legislative process currently right now the bills currently being drafted

50:54 - i will be introducing it and as we go through

50:57 - the budget process i will be working for bills

51:00 - to put an amendment

51:01 - on some of the bills to

51:02 - really push this out because

51:04 - i truly believe in it

51:05 - as and.

51:06 - Why should

51:07 - why should we as Pennsylvania legislator

51:09 - why should we keep that one billion dollars rolled over into next year's budget

51:13 - that just think

51:14 - it will inflate the number for years to come so that billion dollars will be there

51:18 - forever and it should we have an opportunity here.

51:21 - Give the money back to the folks to pay.

51:24 - Representative Eric de vans out thank you for joining us

51:27 - no problem thank you.

51:30 - That concludes today's show

51:32 - reminder about tomorrow's episode of the pie fan capital preview

51:35 - former Pennsylvania speaker of the house built a waif and ceo of quantum

51:39 - communications Charlie Gerard join us to talk about the state budget

51:43 - that's tomorrow live at nine am.

51:45 - For instance shirts are thanks for watching.