00:00 - The following program

00:01 - is sponsored in part by customers bank.

00:13 - Welcome to this week's edition of Journalists Roundtable.

00:16 - I'm Francine Scherzer.

00:17 - Our guests this week are Whitney Downward, reporter for the Pennsylvania Capital

00:21 - star Jillian McGoldrick, Harrisburg reporter with The Philadelphia Inquirer.

00:25 - And Marc Levy, reporter with the Associated Press.

00:28 - Marc, we'll start with you.

00:29 - It's been a few weeks since Pennsylvania's primary election.

00:32 - What did you learn from the results?

00:33 - So, perhaps the most important thing is we know who Democrats

00:37 - will go into the fall with for their congressional slate.

00:40 - There's a huge battle for control of the US House this year.

00:44 - Democrats are hopeful that they'll retake, control.

00:48 - Republicans still have a slim majority,

00:50 - but there's at least four contested seats in Pennsylvania.

00:53 - Democrats hope to take off for those that are held by Republicans,

00:57 - and they have some contested primaries in those seats.

01:00 - And now we know who their nominees are.

01:02 - We know what their slate looks like and how they'll handle that in the fall,

01:07 - and how Republicans will counter those attacks to try to protect those seats.

01:11 - And the other interesting point about that is that the governor

01:15 - had a stake in the outcomes of those primaries, having endorsed,

01:19 - and I think it was three contested primaries.

01:22 - In every case, the person he endorsed won.

01:26 - And, so that that looks good for him, especially when he's got,

01:31 - his own battle for reelection and a lot of talk about him

01:34 - potentially seeking the presidency in 2028.

01:37 - Whitney, what did you take from the election this year?

01:41 - Yeah, I think that,

01:42 - as Mark indicated, it really seemed to show that.

01:46 - Shapiro's endorsement really did hold a lot of weight

01:49 - and was able to push a lot of the or all of his preferred candidates

01:53 - across the finish line to get NAB that nomination.

01:57 - But I think that we're still kind of looking at some really tight races

02:01 - and some really competitive ones, especially in the Lehigh Valley

02:06 - and in the Scranton area and even, here where I am in Harrisburg.

02:11 - So I think it's still going to be a very long road ahead of us going into November.

02:15 - But the for now, it seems like all of those,

02:19 - Shapiro picked

02:22 - candidates were successful.

02:24 - Jillian, what did you learn from the election?

02:27 - Yeah, that, as everyone said, there's

02:30 - those congressional seats where we're a big deal.

02:33 - And really set the stage for the November election.

02:37 - But in Philadelphia, there was a contested primary for who was going to fill

02:42 - a vacancy that will be created by, US representative, Dwight Evans

02:49 - from his, upcoming retirement.

02:54 - And so, State Representative Chris Rabb won that election.

02:59 - He's a progressive.

03:00 - He was not backed by the party's establishment at all.

03:04 - And, I think that it took, some of the Democratic Party, like the,

03:10 - the machine as, the Working Families Party likes to call it,

03:14 - that they,

03:18 - the Working Families Party specifically said the machine is dead.

03:21 - So they really celebrated this.

03:23 - Progressives across the state celebrated the win.

03:27 - I would add to that, in the, in the seventh

03:31 - congressional, where, Bob Brooks is running.

03:36 - He is also he had a instead of just like the progressive versus the

03:41 - the more, establishment candidates,

03:47 - Bob Brooks had created a more like,

03:50 - a, a

03:52 - coalition of, both the Working Families.

03:56 - Party, Bernie Sanders and Governor Shapiro all endorsing him.

03:59 - So it's it was a, an interesting election night, for sure.

04:04 - Julian, since you invoked the

04:05 - the title The Working Families Party, for those who aren't familiar,

04:08 - can you explain who they are and what they stand for?

04:10 - Yeah, they are a political party

04:14 - that says that they back and are are made up of people, of working people.

04:19 - And they are a like a labor backed,

04:22 - political party that often now,

04:25 - endorses and backs Democratic candidates.

04:29 - Progressive Democratic candidates.

04:32 - All three of you have written a little bit

04:33 - about the third Congressional District, which was the one where Chris Rabb,

04:36 - won the Democratic nomination for the seat being vacated by Dwight Evans.

04:40 - Whitney, what do you think about this progressive shift?

04:42 - Do you think this is indicative just of that particular region

04:45 - in Philadelphia, or do you see this being, having a greater impact,

04:48 - more of a progressive shift throughout the state?

04:51 - I think that

04:52 - at least with this, it's a little more Philadelphia focused.

04:55 - You know, the more progressive candidate in the 10th here in Harrisburg.

04:59 - Justin Douglas did not succeed in trying

05:02 - to topple the party backed Janelle Skelton.

05:06 - She is the one who got Governor Shapiro's nod.

05:09 - So I don't particularly see it as being a statewide

05:15 - outcome.

05:16 - It seems to have been a little bit more specific to Philadelphia.

05:19 - Mark, you'd written that at one point,

05:21 - Rob actually considered pulling out of the race.

05:23 - Can you talk a little bit about that?

05:25 - Yeah.

05:26 - So at one point, he had reported that his campaign treasurer

05:29 - was was stealing money.

05:31 - I'm not aware that any charges have been filed yet, but I think

05:35 - the way he described is it was really, just a gut punch to him.

05:39 - He felt betrayed.

05:40 - He felt betrayed for,

05:41 - you know, on behalf of his donors

05:42 - and all the people who had put their trust in him.

05:45 - And it came at a time when, you know,

05:48 - fundraising was was a really stiff competition in that race.

05:52 - It was a it was a four way race, but with three general front runners

05:57 - and, I think you know, the heat of that

05:59 - competition to raise money was really weighing on him.

06:03 - He stayed in and,

06:05 - you know, I

06:06 - think in what Whitney was just talking about, with,

06:10 - this may be more of a Philadelphia phenomenon.

06:13 - The progressive victory there.

06:15 - He was successful in getting a whole constellation of progressive groups

06:18 - to back him in, to come in after he had to report his campaign treasurer.

06:23 - And they really stepped up.

06:24 - They spent a lot of money on his behalf to help him get across the finish line.

06:28 - And it showed that, you know, he came away with 44%, 45% of the vote.

06:32 - The last time I checked in a three way race.

06:35 - So, arguably it was a strong showing for him.

06:38 - Only one third of registered Democrats in that district voted.

06:42 - So it you can argue it's a small sample size, but,

06:46 - you know, by all accounts, he ran a good race.

06:50 - He was very successful in consolidating progressive support behind him.

06:56 - And so you have to hand it to him for running a good race.

06:59 - And, and I think it also

07:02 - to some extent demonstrates, the progressive successes in Philadelphia.

07:06 - In fact, his victory is won nationally speaking, one of the biggest victories

07:11 - for progressives nationwide, this year so far.

07:15 - Jillian, do you think that two of the other candidates in this race, Ella

07:18 - Stanford and Sharif Street,

07:19 - kind of cancel each other out because they were seen

07:21 - as more establishment or more moderate candidates?

07:25 - That's a that's a good question.

07:26 - I don't necessarily think that they cancel one another out.

07:29 - I do think that, Doctor Alice

07:32 - Stanford had been the front runner there for a bit.

07:36 - She had a lot of money backing her from this outside group three.

07:40 - One for action.

07:41 - That backs like, different, physicians running for office.

07:45 - Though it is a also, a dark money group.

07:49 - And, so there were a number of, like, missteps and issues that came up within

07:53 - the last few weeks of the campaign where you can almost see

07:57 - the voters, between the mail ballots and the day of voting.

08:01 - You can see them shift from, Doctor Stanford to,

08:05 - Senator Street and, Senator Street, though I should add,

08:09 - it was the was the establishment candidate, though.

08:12 - Ella Stanford was, backed by, Dwight Evans.

08:15 - But Street had the support of, Mayor Cheryl Parker.

08:20 - He she had the or he had the support of,

08:24 - the building trades.

08:27 - He had the support of the Philly Democratic Party.

08:30 - So he, he had all of the,

08:33 - the machine, and establishment, backing him.

08:37 - But, he still did not.

08:40 - He, like Mark, noted, he still

08:45 - came in

08:45 - second to, to Representative Rabb, and.

08:50 - Yeah, it I wouldn't say they cancel each other out, though.

08:53 - That just was a shift as, the election progressed as we look to.

08:58 - Oh, go ahead please, Whitney.

08:59 - Well, I yeah, I just wanted to add that it really seemed like the race kind of

09:02 - came down to in terms of who got endorsements from who,

09:05 - you know, there was a lot of scrambling to, to promote.

09:09 - Hey, I got this guy.

09:10 - I got this person, you know, representative Rabb

09:14 - rallied with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez in from Congress.

09:18 - And that was a really big gift for him

09:20 - to kind of show off his progressive muscle, so to speak.

09:24 - And so there was a lot of that, especially I feel like in the last days

09:27 - of trying to say, you know, Senator, streets, like I got the

09:31 - the local support of elected officials, whereas they were all trying to show up

09:35 - who show off what coalitions they were able to build.

09:39 - As we look toward the general election coming toward us now, how important

09:42 - is Pennsylvania in determining who ultimately will control Congress?

09:47 - It's a big deal.

09:48 - It may

09:48 - be the biggest deal, in the nation right now for Democrats, considering how

09:52 - they have lost the redistricting battle nationally to Republicans.

09:56 - There's been at least a half dozen states, Republican states,

10:00 - that are changing their maps or have changed their maps to increase

10:04 - the potential the likelihood that Republicans

10:06 - will win more seats in the fall in November's election.

10:10 - So Democrats are lagging there, and that makes Pennsylvania even more important,

10:14 - with its four contested seats that Democrats could potentially pick up.

10:18 - Now they could lose all four

10:21 - because none of these seats are going to be easy to win.

10:24 - You have two members of Congress.

10:27 - Brian Fitzpatrick and Scott Perry, who have, beaten back Democratic

10:31 - challenges, in election after election, that they've been in office.

10:36 - And you have two freshmen and very, very closely

10:38 - narrowly divided districts, Rob Breslin hand and Ryan McKenzie.

10:42 - So, it's hard to see,

10:45 - any of those, districts as a cakewalk.

10:48 - For Democrats in the fall, it's going to be a tough battle.

10:51 - Mark, you had written a bit about, other states

10:53 - such as Louisiana passing maps that are more favorable to Republicans.

10:56 - Do you foresee any scenario where Pennsylvania would follow suit

10:59 - and try to do, redistricting before the 2030 census?

11:05 - So technically, it's

11:06 - possible Democrats would have to win the legislature.

11:09 - Governor Shapiro would have to win reelection,

11:12 - and then they would have to decide that they have the political

11:16 - will to, essentially pass a new map through the legislature,

11:21 - redraw it, pass it, and have the governor sign it in time for 2028.

11:25 - And that is, another point is that while Republican states,

11:31 - a number of them are redistricting for this year

11:35 - to help Republicans to try to help Republicans maintain control,

11:38 - there is a next wave of states that will redistrict in 2028

11:43 - that are planning that, including Republican states to increase, you know,

11:47 - the number of Republican victories in 2028 to keep that momentum going.

11:52 - And so, there will be pressure on Democratic states

11:55 - if they haven't done it in 2026 to try to redistrict for 2028.

12:00 - And so that if Pennsylvania has a unified

12:04 - democratic government in 20, you know, after this election,

12:08 - there could be pressure on Pennsylvania to join that that wave.

12:12 - To what extent do you think federal or public sentiment over federal issues,

12:16 - things like the war in Iraq on the economy,

12:18 - are going to impact how people vote in November?

12:24 - I affordability is really a big one.

12:26 - You know, you're hearing that from everybody.

12:28 - They're all wondering, you know, our gas price is going to come down anytime soon.

12:33 - My utility bills keep going up.

12:35 - I'm not getting any relief.

12:37 - So I think that affordability is going to be huge.

12:40 - I, also hear a lot about health care prices and just feeling that

12:45 - it the costs are going up.

12:47 - And there's not a lot of options for people who make slightly

12:50 - too much for Medicaid but don't have a good private option.

12:54 - And so I do think that these are things

12:56 - that are weighing very heavily on voters minds and on voters pocketbooks,

13:00 - and it's going to depend on whether the candidate

13:03 - can convince them that they're going to do a better job, regardless of party, for

13:07 - their constituents.

13:09 - Jillian, you've been covering the governor's race.

13:11 - How would you describe the tone and the messaging of both the campaigns

13:16 - and the early campaign ads that each of them have been putting out?

13:19 - Yeah.

13:20 - Governor Shapiro, today, Thursday, June 4th, put out his first,

13:25 - his first ad buy on TV,

13:28 - and he led with, a bunch of young kids

13:32 - interviewing him, talking about free breakfast as his opening pitch to

13:36 - to voters, Treasurer Stacey Garrity,

13:40 - the Republican candidate challenging him in November.

13:44 - She has not yet been up on TV.

13:46 - But she has been doing some digital ads, calling into question,

13:51 - Governor Shapiro's, past, his earlier stances on things,

13:57 - whether it's school choice, or his,

14:01 - a an issue back in 2023 where a top aide had been accused

14:07 - of sexual harassment and remained on staff.

14:11 - So there there are a couple of things, brewing,

14:15 - I think that we're just getting into the the thick of it now, though.

14:19 - Post-Primary where they're, they're starting to try and,

14:22 - set themselves apart and talk about fundraising briefly.

14:26 - As of May 4th, Josh Shapiro's campaign had 37.8 million in cash on hand.

14:31 - Stacey Garrett's had 1.4 million.

14:33 - Is it possible for an underfunded candidate

14:35 - to still remain competitive in a race like this?

14:41 - It's going to be difficult.

14:43 - Yeah.

14:44 - It's not a very easy road.

14:46 - Governor Shapiro just has a really large amount of money

14:50 - to rely on and pull from when he wants to make these appeals.

14:54 - And, you know, they're both I both I see them both trying

14:58 - to travel a lot, though, and actually meet face to face with voters.

15:01 - But it's very hard to distinguish yourself in this race

15:06 - without a lot of money behind you.

15:09 - I want to take a look at, just 1 or 2 of the state legislative races as well.

15:12 - Julian, you also wrote about, representing Greg Vitale.

15:14 - He lost a seat in the May primary.

15:17 - He has been a state rep since 1993.

15:19 - What led to his loss?

15:21 - Yeah, he had, and he lost by a significant amount to,

15:26 - he had previously been challenged by the the local, Democratic establishment

15:32 - arguing that they, they needed new blood in the seat.

15:36 - They had been unsuccessful previously in 2022.

15:40 - So talking to Representative Vitale ahead of time,

15:43 - he really felt confident that his his long career as,

15:48 - the the largely the minority chair and then now the majority chair

15:53 - of the environmental protection committee, had sort of protected him.

15:59 - He has focused on climate change for for decades.

16:02 - But that is something that, that Democrats have

16:06 - largely stopped talking about as a top issue.

16:09 - So I think that that really played into this.

16:12 - But he lost to,

16:15 - a local, township commissioner,

16:19 - who, will take over the seat, in, in November.

16:24 - Do any of you see a scenario where either the state House

16:27 - or the state Senate shifts in control after the general election?

16:32 - I mean, anything is possible.

16:34 - The state House has a one seat Democratic majority.

16:37 - The state Senate has, was it two?

16:40 - I guess it's a four seat Senate majority, but that means Democrats

16:44 - need to pick up two seats to tie it.

16:45 - Is that right?

16:46 - So I mean, anything is possible.

16:49 - You know, Democrats have not had

16:53 - control of the legislature in more than 30 years.

16:57 - For much of that time, Republicans have had control of the legislature.

17:01 - Not now, though, it is divided.

17:03 - But, yeah, it is.

17:06 - Anything could happen in November.

17:07 - Democrats are optimistic

17:08 - about their chances of picking off at least two Republican seats in the fall.

17:13 - The skills game lobby spent over $8 million to back the opponents of three.

17:17 - Republican senators in what were considered Republican safe districts.

17:20 - Do you see other issues beyond the skills game issue

17:23 - that might be indicative of what happens in the legislature in the

17:27 - in the coming year?

17:32 - I wouldn't I wouldn't

17:33 - say there are other top issues that will decide control.

17:37 - I think it really will come down

17:38 - to those national and international issues when people go to the ballot box.

17:42 - Midterm elections are often the rebuke of whoever the party in power is.

17:47 - And obviously right now Republicans control the presidency.

17:50 - They control the U.S. House, they control the U.S. Senate.

17:53 - So I think that it will largely be that that drives people to the polls.

17:57 - And that's part of, Governor Shapiro's

18:00 - sort of, confidence heading into,

18:03 - November is he wants to flip those four seats.

18:08 - And then also, he's he has asked Democrats directly,

18:11 - the, the Democratic Party's convention earlier this year.

18:15 - Bring me a trifecta.

18:18 - Like he wants the he wants the state Senate to flip as well.

18:21 - I want to kind of shift gears a little bit,

18:23 - because now that we're in the month of June,

18:24 - the state budget is technically due on June 30th.

18:27 - Does anybody have any insights as to

18:28 - what's happening with the budget process or where we are at this point in the game?

18:35 - Yeah.

18:35 - I spoke with, Majority Leader, House Majority Leader

18:40 - Matt Bradford this week and Senate Majority Leader Joe Pittman this week.

18:44 - They both said that they are further along than they were last year.

18:48 - Obviously, last year was a pretty, pretty tough, year.

18:54 - The budget was almost five months late.

18:57 - They really disagreed on a lot of stuff.

19:00 - Largely the main issue of public transit.

19:03 - But that is not an issue that will come up this year.

19:06 - Governor Shapiro, flex some, flex

19:10 - some, state funds to hold over

19:13 - some of those public transit issues that were happening in Philadelphia.

19:17 - So those issues won't come up until next year.

19:20 - So, they at least claim they're further along, but we'll see.

19:24 - When you covered the state legislature quite a bit,

19:26 - what are their policy issues and what kind of bills

19:28 - have been moving through the legislature

19:30 - now that they are back in session for this month?

19:32 - Yeah.

19:33 - So, the big one that has actually been moving through

19:36 - both chambers is a ban on cell phone use for children in school.

19:41 - They really want to have a build able ban, meaning that

19:46 - as soon as the first bill goes off, students are not allowed

19:48 - to have their cell phones until the end of the day.

19:50 - And it has had some bipartisan concerns,

19:54 - but has largely been supported by the General Assembly.

19:59 - Governor Josh Shapiro has called on them to send the bill to his desk,

20:03 - in his February address.

20:05 - So that's something that actually has been moving pretty quickly.

20:08 - And the House just sent a revised version over to the Senate.

20:13 - So that's back in the Senate's hands.

20:15 - That's probably the only thing that's actually been moving in both chambers.

20:20 - But other priorities are still in the works.

20:23 - People are trying to kind of nibble at the edges of smaller issues,

20:28 - but I don't think that there's a broad consensus for many other

20:34 - problems of priorities.

20:36 - Mark, you've been writing quite a bit about data centers.

20:38 - In particular, Representative Jamie Walsh and Senator Jack

20:41 - Coleman are both proposing to remove, incentives to data

20:44 - center establishment and also put a moratorium on the development.

20:48 - And then you write about something similar happening in Ohio.

20:51 - Are there lessons from Ohio that we can maybe

20:52 - take here in Pennsylvania as this is beginning to develop?

20:56 - Well, the one thing that, Jamie Walsh

20:59 - probably knows all about is that there is a very, very strong

21:02 - community backlash to data centers, not only in Pennsylvania, but in Ohio.

21:06 - It's sweeping across Ohio and in at least

21:09 - a dozen other states where,

21:12 - data center development is brisk.

21:14 - And so Pennsylvania is one of those those states where it's a big target

21:17 - for data center development.

21:19 - It has a very friendly

21:20 - gubernatorial administration with Josh Shapiro in charge.

21:24 - And, what we know, though, is that states that have tried

21:29 - to remove their incentives or slap a moratorium on have not been successful.

21:33 - So of all the moratorium bills across the United States, none have moved

21:38 - except for one in Maine that got to the governor's desk and she vetoed it.

21:41 - Janet Mills vetoed it.

21:43 - Talking about, wanting to

21:46 - have had a caveat or an exception in there for particular establishment.

21:52 - What you can learn is that,

21:56 - with, with with who we have as governor

21:59 - with support for data centers from labor unions, which divides.

22:02 - Democrats as well as, broadly speaking, the business sector,

22:07 - a moratorium bill faces a very, very steep,

22:10 - steep, steep road, as does any bill that's going to remove incentives

22:15 - such as the sales tax break, which about 38 states have some version of that.

22:20 - And it's very important to attracting the hyperscale data centers.

22:23 - It's it's a huge, financial benefit to them.

22:28 - It's, it's what attracts them to states that have it.

22:31 - And that has helped make Pennsylvania, attractive to them.

22:35 - And so similar to moratoriums states, where legislation other states

22:41 - have sought to remove that some sort of are some sort of, financial incentive.

22:46 - Those have largely failed to.

22:48 - One concern that's potentially tied to data centers is,

22:51 - once they're present, what impact they have on electricity rates.

22:55 - Electricity rates for Pennsylvanians

22:56 - went up earlier this week for the I believe June 1st was the date.

23:00 - And you had written about how some entities, some other states

23:03 - are considering looking at the profitability of the utility companies.

23:06 - What are state legislators doing here,

23:09 - as we consider, spiking electricity rates in Pennsylvania?

23:12 - I mean, state lawmakers in Pennsylvania are doing,

23:17 - they're looking at, a lot of the same things that other states

23:19 - are looking at, where electricity prices are going up.

23:22 - The bottom line is that the, you know, the horse is already out of the barn.

23:26 - The reason why electricity prices here have been going up for,

23:30 - at least the past year is because

23:34 - of this demand on, electricity.

23:37 - There's not enough power plants to feed that demand.

23:40 - And so the way the regional grid works is it sends that signal, that price signal

23:44 - to power plant owners, that we're going to pay you more

23:47 - so you build more power plants.

23:49 - But it's so much easier to build a data center than it is to build a power plant.

23:53 - The other aspect of of Pennsylvanians bills

23:57 - which you touched on is, transmission costs, distribution

24:01 - costs, building substations that local utilities make a profit on.

24:06 - And so the governor here, Josh Shapiro, has pushed back

24:09 - on utility increases that focus on that aspect.

24:13 - And so there is a lot of talk in utility sector now about affordability.

24:17 - You can't keep charging people more if they can't pay it.

24:20 - And as we talked about earlier, one of the big issues in the fall election

24:24 - when we talk about affordability is not just gas,

24:26 - not just groceries, not just health care, but it's also your electricity bill.

24:30 - When he, before one at a time, I wanted to get to talk a little bit

24:33 - about your article today.

24:34 - You had written that the House is considering

24:35 - enabling chip enabled, cards for snap recipients.

24:39 - Can you explain why this has been considered?

24:41 - Yeah.

24:42 - So, you know, your credit card or debit cards likely have a chip enabled

24:47 - scan that tap that you can use at the cash register.

24:51 - But debit cards, which are used for Snap recipients do not have that.

24:56 - It's been a little difficult to roll out, but other states have started

24:59 - to roll that out and the chip is a lot more secure

25:02 - because you can avoid getting that number and pin scanned.

25:07 - It's called there are skimmers that are really easy to attach to,

25:11 - you know, the terminals that you have at the grocery store

25:15 - or at a convenience store when you're buying something.

25:17 - And so the chips are hopefully a way to stop those numbers

25:22 - and those benefits from being stolen from Pennsylvanians who are using Snap.

25:26 - When California is to there's they reported an 83% reduction

25:30 - in stolen benefits.

25:32 - So this is something the state is really eager to do.

25:35 - Was just kind of waiting for the technology to catch up.

25:37 - And it seems like it's here.

25:39 - So there was a bipartisan bill yesterday that passed through the Human Services.

25:43 - Committee that would make the state adopt that quicker, earlier rather than sooner,

25:49 - especially because federal funding incentives change after October 1st,

25:53 - before, when they run out of time.

25:55 - Whitney, what are you working on this week?

25:58 - Yeah.

25:58 - So in the week coming up, I am actually going to be working a lot

26:02 - on health care legislation, and we're kind of looking

26:06 - at things around staffing shortages, especially in rural areas.

26:09 - That's the, project I'm going to be working on.

26:13 - Mark, what will you be working on

26:15 - looking at, what states are doing on AI regulation?

26:18 - Pennsylvania is among them.

26:20 - And, you know, with the backdrop of, you know, President Trump saying that

26:24 - he will, go after states that try to regulate AI.

26:28 - Gillian, how about you?

26:30 - Yeah, I'm working on a budget update.

26:32 - That's been published later this week

26:35 - that I think you might have read the entire thing.

26:38 - They think they're a little bit further along.

26:41 - I'd like to thank you all for joining us.

26:43 - Our guest

26:43 - this week have been Whitney Downward, reporter for the Pennsylvania Capitol star

26:48 - Gillian McGoldrick, Harrisburg reporter for The Philadelphia Inquirer.

26:51 - And Marc Levy, reporter with the Associated Press.

26:54 - Thank you all for joining us.

26:56 - And thank you for watching journalists Roundtable.

26:58 - I'm Francine Scherzer.