00:00 - The following program was financed by a Grant from america to fifty pa.

00:07 - Good evening

00:08 - and welcome to eastern state

00:09 - my name's Matthew darragh

00:10 - i am the chief of staff for america to fifty pa

00:13 - we are the state commission working in all sixty

00:15 - seven counties and over four hundred municipalities

00:18 - to prepare for this once in a generation anniversary.

00:22 - This summer and throughout twenty twenty six.

00:24 - We've developed over a dozen programs and projects

00:27 - and tonight we're here as part of one of those programs the lecture to fifty series.

00:32 - So much of what we do

00:33 - at america fifty pa is about celebrating together

00:36 - lecture to fifty is our opportunity to bring folks together for

00:39 - for learning.

00:42 - I'm so glad to see all of you in the audience and all of our folks

00:46 - watching at home via pcn

00:48 - who are interested in making a deeper connection with their neighbors with the

00:51 - commonwealth and with the heritage that helps us

00:53 - make sense of who we are and where we're going

00:57 - and today as i was preparing for this i was reflecting on that heritage and i was

01:00 - thinking about something that i'd read in college

01:02 - and.

01:03 - We read

01:04 - poems by a poet degree ponied escalates

01:07 - and escalates thought a lot about some of the themes that we're talking about tonight

01:11 - about.

01:13 - Faith about justice

01:15 - and in one of his works he reflected on the fact

01:18 - that humans are often caught up in a cycle of

01:21 - violence and recrimination.

01:24 - The way to break through that cycle

01:26 - is with justice

01:27 - and

01:28 - as a matter of fact in one of his plays.

01:30 - He talked about the Greek myth of the first trial

01:33 - the first trial was divine inspired

01:36 - as a way to break that cycle

01:38 - and as a matter of fact the

01:39 - Greek goddess of wisdom herself fina was the judge

01:42 - and cast down a verdict and

01:44 - i think it's interesting to reflect on the fact that

01:45 - that verdict that for that first trial was one of mercy

01:50 - and i was thinking about that especially in connection with our founding fathers in

01:53 - the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the united states.

01:56 - Because they were also students of the classics

01:58 - and i wondered if they had thought about escalates

02:00 - when they were

02:01 - doing their writing

02:03 - Thomas Jefferson am sure sure many of you will will read or reread the

02:06 - declaration of independence this year

02:08 - and so much of that

02:10 - is

02:10 - a ruination

02:12 - and a grievance about who gets to pass laws who gets to enforce them

02:17 - and how shouldn't you know

02:18 - how should they be enforced.

02:20 - That's the problem was not settled

02:23 - with that with our victory in the reveille visionary wars map

02:25 - choose me as a matter of fact even decades later

02:28 - when

02:29 - the founders came together again to pass the bill of rights

02:32 - they were still ruminating and reflecting on.

02:36 - What is fair what is just

02:38 - and what is cruel and unusual

02:41 - and so

02:42 - i think that tonight when we come together there

02:44 - were going to have this conversation about faith

02:47 - about restorative justice

02:49 - i think it's very appropriate given the context of this moment in our history

02:54 - and i hope that we all remember and reflect

02:56 - that

02:57 - as the Greeks knew

02:59 - the heart of justice is very often

03:01 - mercy.

03:02 - So without further ado i will.

03:05 - Sorry to bring up some of the other speakers and we moved the program along but

03:08 - it's

03:09 - it's an honour a pleasure to be with you and if you're interested in any of.

03:12 - The future lectures that we're going to do or any other

03:14 - constellation of programming that's going to be happening

03:17 - in Pennsylvania through america fifty pa where our partners

03:20 - ask you to check us out at america fifty ph dot org

03:22 - again thank you to eastern state

03:24 - thank you to all of you for being here and let's enjoy this wonderful program.

03:29 - Three.

03:39 - That was excellent and i love that we're starting

03:41 - class already and really exciting i appreciate that

03:44 - so welcome everyone welcome to eastern state penitentiary historic site

03:48 - are so happy to have you here tonight my name is Curtis honor

03:51 - i am honored to serve as president and ceo here at this powerful place

03:55 - this powerful organization

03:57 - together we gather here tonight in center

04:00 - and in community and it's very important for us

04:03 - to gather in community for these conversations

04:05 - it's very important for us to gathering community

04:08 - at eastern state a place

04:10 - and an organization and a historic site that tried to break people of the community

04:16 - and this is why it's so important that we talk about community all the time here

04:20 - because so much

04:22 - of what people did and what we're going to talk

04:24 - about tonight is how important community is

04:27 - and how important religious communities are

04:30 - to hold on to one another we were talking about that tonight

04:34 - when we talk about religious communities

04:36 - what we see is the strongest strength that we see in religious cube unity's

04:40 - is it the ability

04:42 - to pull each other end

04:43 - to hold onto each other

04:45 - in times of forgiveness in times of mistakes and in times of genuine kindness

04:51 - and that is something that we saw in the history of eastern state

04:55 - so when we think of the two hundred and fifty s and

04:58 - we think of the two hundred in fifty years ago that

05:02 - people came together to have this country

05:05 - they came together and they gathered around this radical idea

05:09 - of

05:10 - mercy of justice of freedom of Liberty of all these big ideas

05:15 - but it wasn't just who gets freedom and Liberty and justice

05:20 - it wasn't about getting things it was also about the responsibility

05:25 - of having it

05:26 - and they were also questioning

05:28 - if they take it away from people what does that look like

05:31 - and at the end of the day they were talking about building communities

05:35 - they were talking about social contracts with each other

05:39 - and well howdy you you share in this community

05:42 - we call the united states

05:44 - and they were just figuring out how to even terminate the united states

05:47 - and not just listing a whole bunch of states and ideas

05:51 - and what was that

05:52 - social contract that they would have with each other

05:55 - but they were centering it around each other

05:58 - they were putting it around

06:00 - huh human dignity

06:01 - that's the revolutionary idea they came up with

06:04 - and guess what we still haven't figured that out

06:07 - so two hundred and fifty years later

06:10 - were sent it scenting in center together

06:13 - still trying to come up with the ideas

06:16 - still trying to figure out what is our responsibility to each other

06:20 - and how how do we do this

06:21 - better.

06:23 - How we at eastern state do this is we preserve

06:27 - this historic landmark

06:28 - we preserve this national treasure

06:31 - because we believe it's important to preserve our pass.

06:34 - The beauty of our past

06:35 - and the peanut our pasts

06:37 - to ensure

06:38 - that we can understand what has happened to learn from it

06:42 - and to reclaim it to do good

06:44 - and so thank you for gathering with us in centre

06:48 - to have these dialogues

06:49 - to learn what has happened

06:51 - from our framing from moving on

06:54 - and then to leave here

06:56 - in community

06:58 - and say what are we going to do next

07:00 - because it it isn't just the past

07:02 - it's about how we go into the future

07:04 - to do good

07:06 - to do justice

07:07 - to do it together

07:08 - so thank you for being here

07:10 - and i'm really grateful to the community that has come here tonight

07:15 - to support us in this work

07:17 - because we do not do any of this work alone

07:20 - and so ten nine i get to extend the gratitude

07:23 - to a deeply connected and aiming this in so many different ways historically

07:29 - as well as personally connected family

07:31 - so i want to thank the right the right glyn

07:34 - and tuck families for their support with us

07:37 - i want to thank the america two fifty p a

07:40 - community that is new to us

07:42 - i want to thank councilman Thomas and young for all

07:44 - the work that they've helped us within the last year

07:47 - there are new to our eastern state community and family and they've helped us so much

07:51 - but really in this partnership of support and not just

07:54 - in what we do but thinking about who we can grow into be

07:58 - the work that we do in the city and across this nation

08:01 - without further ado

08:03 - somebody that can really center us in this work over

08:05 - the last hundred and one hundred and fifty years

08:08 - and move us forward and how do we build a stronger community

08:11 - please everyone welcome Larry ragland to the stage.

08:15 - Three.

08:22 - Korea i'm going to have you introduced me all the time

08:26 - that was wonderful thank you.

08:28 - Well

08:29 - good evening everyone.

08:32 - It's an honor really to be gathered here Richards

08:34 - for tonight's program justice one o one faith

08:38 - reentry

08:39 - and prison reform.

08:41 - This is part of the

08:42 - time for Liberty

08:44 - our shared history our shared future series

08:48 - we are here in a place

08:50 - that

08:50 - once was held up

08:51 - as a global model for a new idea.

08:55 - An idea that incarceration

08:57 - penitents

08:58 - could transform people

09:00 - through isolation

09:02 - reflection

09:03 - and reform.

09:04 - We know now how deeply flawed that experiment was

09:09 - and how it's legacy still shapes our our systems today.

09:13 - This site grew out of a very particular religious experiment.

09:19 - In the early eighteen hundreds quaker reformers

09:22 - rooted in in the Christian convictions about the inner light

09:26 - of

09:27 - every person

09:28 - help design a new kind of prison intended to to inspire penitence and reform

09:35 - rather than inflict public torture

09:38 - or death.

09:39 - We know now that this great experiment in solitary confinement

09:44 - cause devastating harm

09:46 - and quakers themselves were among the first to speak out

09:50 - against what it had become.

09:52 - Tonight we have quaker voices with us who are part of a very different project

09:58 - owning that history

10:00 - and working towards models of justice and community safety

10:04 - that are truly humane.

10:07 - Tonight's conversation focuses on faith reentry and prison reform three threads

10:13 - that are tightly intertwined.

10:16 - Faith communities have long stood at the heart of

10:19 - movements for criminal justice reform prison chaplaincy

10:24 - reentry support

10:25 - and restorative justice

10:28 - they have welcome people home after incarceration

10:32 - offered a key accountability

10:34 - that is not purely punitive

10:36 - and created spaces where humanity and

10:39 - vote and belonging

10:40 - are not earned

10:42 - but assumed.

10:44 - This program is part of the Aaron rocklin restorative justice and faith conversations

10:50 - and our broader lecture to fifty initiative which invites us in the lead up to the

10:55 - two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the declaration of independence

11:00 - to ask

11:01 - what does Liberty mean

11:03 - in a nation where so many lives are shaped by policing

11:07 - prisons in terms of re entry.

11:11 - We are fortunate to be guided tonight by an extraordinary

11:15 - group of leaders who bring legal scholarship

11:18 - pastoral leadership

11:20 - community organizing and interfaith engagement into the same room.

11:25 - Our guests include voices from Muslim communities

11:29 - and from Christian traditions inc looting quaker communities

11:33 - all committed to imagining justice that restores rather than discards.

11:40 - We had also planned to have a Jewish voice in this conversation

11:44 - dr Yehuda price

11:46 - who brings both professional expertise and his own

11:50 - powerful perspective on incarceration and reentry

11:54 - but he is not able to be with us tonight because he and his family just welcomed a

11:59 - new baby a bit earlier than expected.

12:04 - So we send them our congratulations and we look forward to finding another moment to

12:09 - bring this voice into this space.

12:13 - After

12:13 - after curry's generous introduction of me

12:16 - it's a joy to turn the spotlight back on her

12:20 - in a different

12:21 - and

12:22 - slightly different role tonight

12:24 - in just a moment you will hear from dr curry

12:26 - softener and dr Michael moreland together.

12:30 - Dr moreland is university professor of law and religion

12:33 - and director of the Eleanor h mcallen center for law

12:37 - religion and public policy at villanova university

12:41 - he is a leading scholar of constitutional law law religious freedom

12:46 - torts

12:47 - and bioethics

12:48 - and has helped shape national conversations

12:51 - about how law ethics and religious traditions

12:54 - interact in American public life.

12:58 - In conversation with kerry he will help ground us in the

13:02 - legal and ethical context for what follows those tonight.

13:06 - We will then take a brief intermission

13:08 - and when we return kerry will moderate a broader dialogue with our full panel.

13:14 - Dr Terry softener is the president and ceo of eastern state penitentiary historic site

13:20 - and more importantly a friend and a partner in this work.

13:25 - She will lead our interfaith dialogue drawing

13:27 - on eastern state's role as a civic classroom

13:30 - using this historic site

13:32 - to explore the legacy

13:34 - and ongoing reality of mass incarceration in the united states.

13:40 - Our panelists

13:41 - are

13:42 - a mom kaiser Abdullah

13:44 - director of the mayor's office of Muslim engagement in the city of Philadelphia

13:49 - and an assistant professor at temple university.

13:53 - His work in conflict rice solution leadership and Muslim community organizing

13:58 - includes efforts towards criminal justice reform

14:02 - and building interfaith coalitions.

14:05 - Reverend damone b Jones sr who is senior pastor

14:09 - of Bible way baptist church in west Philadelphia.

14:13 - His decades of ministry we include chaplaincy with youth in detention

14:18 - service on the Philadelphia board of ethics

14:21 - and on the board of trustees of the Philadelphia prison system as well as advisory

14:26 - roles in statewide corrections and reentry policy.

14:31 - And Lewis webb Jr u s peace building director

14:34 - at the American friends service committee

14:38 - and historic quaker peace and justice organization

14:41 - he has led healing justice work that confronts the school to prison pipeline

14:47 - advances sentencing reform

14:49 - develops youth advocacy

14:51 - and articulates a bold vision for community safety beyond prisons and policing.

14:58 - Together they will help us think about how their faith

15:01 - communities can move us from punishment towards restoration

15:05 - and from abstract ideals of Liberty

15:08 - towards concrete practices that honor every purse person's dignity.

15:14 - Thank you for being part of this conversation tonight.

15:17 - Whether you join us from a particular faith

15:20 - tradition

15:21 - from a justice impacted community

15:24 - from the neighborhood around eastern state

15:27 - or simply as someone who cares about what justice should

15:31 - look like in this country you're pro residence here

15:35 - matters

15:37 - with that please join me in welcoming back to the stage dr kerry softener

15:41 - along with dr Michael moreland.

15:45 - Three.

16:02 - Okay professor Marlene i'm really excited about that.

16:06 - So professor Maryland and i have known each other for awhile he is tight so many

16:10 - classes for me usually it's teachers and students that are diving deep into American

16:16 - history and so we are really excited that you are

16:18 - students tonight and we are going to dive deep

16:22 - into the religious founding of america at

16:24 - all

16:25 - thirty minutes.

16:29 - You get what you got.

16:31 - Yeah

16:31 - we are just i have to say we

16:33 - we have hundreds of people online we have all of us in the room

16:37 - this is a conversation that is so

16:39 - wonderful fulfilled our area wonderful for Pennsylvania wonderful for the nation

16:43 - but we are also really lucky you're at villanova

16:47 - so we have one of the best schools

16:49 - to be on this topic right right here in our own community so thank you so much for

16:53 - being with us all the ladder of the pope as well.

16:57 - Dropping bombs yeah

17:00 - all you have all of the big weight.

17:03 - So

17:04 - let's let's

17:05 - begin where we talk about Philadelphia we talk about you know

17:09 - the framing of this city

17:11 - when we look at the framing of america and not you know or we we talk about this city

17:15 - we have so many years we can go back to

17:17 - the lineup a's before that and all of those religious beliefs and leanings

17:22 - but why would i want to do is freely around American history and around William penn

17:26 - so even before the American history and the British history

17:29 - can we talk a little bit about William penn and

17:33 - the

17:33 - holy city that William patton bought here because

17:36 - i think that explains so much of the religious freedom that we see in Philadelphia

17:41 - and quite frankly the religious experiment

17:44 - and freedom that we see here in eastern state

17:47 - because penn did it differently

17:49 - so can you give us a little bit of that framing.

17:52 - I think that's all right of course we we have

17:54 - some folks who later can speak to quakers

17:57 - more authoritatively than i certainly can

18:00 - but right i mean if you think back to the seventeenth century context within which

18:04 - from which William penn emerged of course he was from England and

18:08 - he

18:09 - as a young man

18:10 - became a quaker which was this movement in

18:13 - the mid seventeenth century English religious life

18:17 - and they were dissenters right from the

18:19 - established church of England

18:21 - and

18:22 - if you think of

18:23 - your the wider context of seventeenth century

18:25 - mean and continental Europe you have the word

18:27 - thirty years war from sixteen eighteen to sixteen forty eight

18:31 - a time of tremendous religious

18:33 - conflict and strife

18:35 - and

18:36 - so over and against that that.

18:38 - Experience of

18:40 - the established church in England and the ways in which it.

18:43 - Suppressed and persecuted

18:45 - those who are nonconformists

18:47 - with the church of England.

18:50 - Pen and

18:50 - others are puritans

18:52 - catholics Jews of

18:54 - various kinds of

18:56 - other

18:56 - religious believers.

18:58 - You know started to articulate

19:01 - a way of understanding

19:03 - religious toleration religious

19:05 - pluralism

19:07 - and ways in which

19:08 - the interaction between the

19:10 - the state and church could be more tolerant basically

19:14 - and you see that when he came here to to found Philadelphia and he was given this

19:18 - tract of land.

19:20 - By Charles second

19:21 - to

19:22 - to establish

19:23 - a colony here and unlike many of the other colonies.

19:29 - It was a place where the

19:30 - other was what we would now call

19:32 - a kind of religious freedom and religious

19:34 - toleration is also influenced by and interacts with

19:37 - John Locke whose famous treatise on.

19:40 - Religious toleration is roughly

19:42 - contemporaneous

19:43 - with all this they somewhat knew each other

19:46 - a bit although Locke i think was about twelve years older so than penn

19:50 - and so i guess that back and then here

19:53 - in Philadelphia and in this

19:55 - would now be called Kabul's Pennsylvania.

19:58 - He had an experiment

20:01 - in which you would not have an established church.

20:03 - There wouldn't be a kind of state endorsed

20:06 - religious

20:07 - institutional form of christianity that everyone would have to

20:11 - support financially and otherwise

20:14 - and he also had

20:15 - the beginnings of what we would understand as

20:18 - as freedom of conscience that with regard to

20:20 - religious opinion and belief that people should have.

20:24 - The ability to

20:25 - form their religious opinions

20:27 - form their understandings of god and their relationship to the divine

20:31 - in ways that would be free from state coercion of course some of these ideas go back

20:34 - way but you know it's not like William penn or John Locke came up with these ideas

20:38 - there are people who talk about the fact that turtle

20:40 - then in the second century already had an idea

20:43 - about something like non coercion with regard to religious belief

20:47 - but they picked up on those parts of the Christian

20:49 - tradition and then brought them here to to Philadelphia.

20:54 - So what we have is

20:55 - kind of like broader framing that William penn bank brings and it's

21:00 - because of it

21:00 - partly if his lived experience

21:03 - is this persecution that he has he comes and tries to frame

21:06 - this city in this way and we we see a lot of evidence of

21:10 - penn's lived experience frame some building of him physical

21:14 - building a Philadelphia in so many ways it's very brick

21:18 - it's a grid system like literally the physical structures the religious structures

21:22 - the laws in certain ways

21:25 - the penal laws in certain ways are written in ways that pen is established

21:29 - how does it

21:30 - pull in different religions do we see

21:34 - it not just in the structures of the laws the structures of the religious beliefs

21:38 - the structures of the systems of Philadelphia but do we see

21:43 - an actually working where we see other people coming to Philadelphia because it is

21:48 - more tolerant

21:50 - i

21:50 - think the historical record bears that out that

21:53 - unlike other parts of colonial era Erica

21:55 - this was a place where

21:57 - people who are against us would have been called dents were nonconformists people

22:01 - who are you know.

22:03 - Wanted to dissent in one way or another.

22:06 - From

22:07 - from established

22:08 - religious

22:09 - forms of state power that the Philadelphia and Pennsylvania became a place

22:14 - where those things were celebrated.

22:17 - Imperfectly to be sure

22:19 - felt like this was of you know sort of utopia or stuff like that but

22:22 - there were

22:22 - there was there was an recognition.

22:25 - From the sixteen eighties onward

22:28 - that this would be a place where people

22:30 - who

22:31 - are catholics for instance.

22:33 - Or the calvinists of various kinds who

22:36 - didn't again conform to.

22:39 - The established anglican church

22:41 - would find a

22:42 - welcoming and would be able to participate in the life of commerce

22:47 - to some extent the life of politics they did have some religious tests

22:51 - back then

22:52 - but yeah but the people could

22:54 - basically participate in civic life on equal terms.

22:58 - Here in way

22:59 - that would have been much more if not completely impossible much more difficult if

23:04 - not completely impossible in other

23:06 - parts of the colonies and back home in England

23:09 - yeah and it's it's pretty aggressive in other colonies they're literally driven out.

23:13 - Violently to the point of death if not

23:17 - death itself so it is

23:19 - it is.

23:20 - We we see that in Massachusetts we see it in in other state

23:23 - colonies as well

23:25 - so when we start to think we we get past the

23:27 - colonial states we get into a constitution

23:30 - how does that really codified in it and yes i'm going to go there hasn't really

23:33 - started codified in the state constitution

23:36 - i love to talk about these constitutions we're

23:38 - just going to do it for a minute i promise

23:40 - how does this Saturday codified in the state constitutions and then the united states

23:44 - constitution and where do we see that start to

23:46 - level into these framing documents

23:49 - but so some of the pens writings that emerged from

23:53 - this time both

23:54 - before he came here and then when he was here

23:56 - and documents like the charter privileges from seventeen to one

24:00 - day they we know had an enormous

24:02 - effect on us

24:04 - now we're moving into the eighteenth century

24:06 - an eighteenth century

24:08 - American thinkers.

24:10 - So that

24:11 - this idea of for instance of

24:13 - freedom of conscience or what we now in the first amendment would have.

24:17 - As the free exercise of religion.

24:19 - That those kinds of ideas and and and and and a non established church is sort of at

24:24 - the national level at least the state establishments continued

24:27 - into the nineteenth century in some places but that this

24:30 - idea of free exercise of religion freedom of conscience

24:33 - in religious matters and a non establish national church

24:37 - those kinds of ideas that pen.

24:40 - Yo

24:41 - put the seeds in the ground for here in Philadelphia.

24:44 - From the sixteen eighties onwards and

24:47 - do get picked up then and again as you mentioned for

24:49 - instance the Pennsylvania state constitutions are at

24:52 - colonial constitutions and.

24:54 - Say in seventeen seventy six for instance

24:56 - have.

24:58 - A sort of

24:59 - proto version of r we

25:00 - have our first amendment in the bill of rights

25:03 - because of the ways in which

25:04 - the the

25:06 - insight that penn and others had with regard to the significance of this

25:10 - Liberty with regard to religion

25:12 - was

25:13 - not just something that you know was

25:16 - you know could could be traded offered like that

25:18 - but there was a central inherit natural right

25:21 - of

25:21 - of persons

25:23 - as part of

25:24 - part of their serve inherent

25:25 - natural rights of people had

25:27 - and so then when

25:29 - the state constitutions as you mentioned not just in

25:31 - Pennsylvania but other parts of the colonies as well.

25:34 - Many of them reflect

25:35 - some of these same

25:36 - textual guarantees of freedom of

25:38 - conscience and free exercise of religion

25:41 - and then finally when it comes time

25:43 - of course the you know the

25:44 - in

25:45 - the

25:45 - in the summer they come here to Philadelphia they

25:48 - they have a constitutional convention.

25:51 - After the articles confederate of confederation turn out to be a

25:55 - unsuccessful experiment as Hamilton said an imbecilic form of government

26:00 - and so then when they come here to Philadelphia they're in the shadow of William penn

26:06 - now of course then i don't

26:07 - know how long we want to go to this of course the original constitution did not have.

26:13 - Spiritual constitution did not have the bill of rights right because

26:16 - the idea was that

26:17 - we had to get

26:18 - at least some of the structural provisions of the national government right

26:22 - there was a big fight between the federalists and anti federalists about whether the

26:25 - national government should be restrained with regards to the kinds of

26:29 - legislation that should be able to enact and as it's almost sort of condition for

26:33 - ratification the anti federalists insist on

26:36 - a bill of rights

26:38 - which then the first congress sets to working on

26:41 - sends twelve of them to the states the first two are unsuccessful in the

26:45 - next ten are

26:46 - and the

26:48 - what

26:48 - has actually lose their third

26:49 - amendment was our first amendment

26:51 - which has a textual guarantee congress shall make

26:54 - no law respecting an establishment of religion

26:56 - or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

26:59 - So this

27:00 - this idea this like kind of concept of

27:04 - the the right to think as you want and to think that

27:06 - freedom of conscience that you keep speaking of it's a

27:09 - the

27:09 - the right to choose the right to think as you want there right to gather with who you

27:14 - want like a bundle of the first amendment

27:16 - it it's all connected to

27:19 - you know

27:20 - the

27:21 - the thoughts that you want to have the religion that you want to have and the ability

27:25 - to gather with who you want together with i think all

27:27 - those things are connected when we think about religion

27:30 - because you're gathering in community

27:32 - so it's the choice who you gather with when you have

27:35 - your religious gatherings as well which again i think

27:38 - we'll get to these conversations

27:41 - but are really

27:42 - really

27:43 - difficult when incarcerated settings

27:46 - and prohibited strongly incarcerated settings

27:49 - as well as after incarcerated settings so this is

27:52 - why when i kind of tease this out so importantly

27:55 - because we spend so much time talking about it in our framing of our country

28:00 - the freedom to have the right to choose

28:03 - to think as you wish to speak as you want all these concepts

28:07 - these are you know when we talk about luckily his ability to have your own brain

28:12 - to hang out with who you want to hang out with

28:14 - have thoughts and ideas and share them with others

28:17 - and they can be for the religious community

28:19 - for the ideas of invention for so many ideas

28:22 - this is what makes us a people of who we are

28:26 - and the right to choose not to have a religion that's in there as well those choices

28:31 - we used to

28:32 - say as they're running joking you know the first amendment

28:34 - guarantees your right to choose their religion or not

28:37 - the government can't pick one for you your parents might

28:40 - have to get

28:41 - your your government can say

28:43 - but

28:43 - so the first amendment is added to the constitution

28:46 - but there are mentions in the structural constitution the original constitution

28:51 - that

28:52 - that claim merely state that religion is your

28:55 - choice so can you talk a little bit about

28:58 - how that is codified in the structural constitution and then i want to dive into

29:02 - religion and incarceration while the

29:05 - initial articles

29:07 - of the constitution for example

29:08 - prohibit religious tests for office it's one of the

29:11 - few things that applies both at the nah national and state levels

29:14 - that's in the

29:15 - in the original articles of our constitution

29:18 - so this idea of of religious tests which was

29:20 - completely prevalent and thought to be not

29:23 - not not even an issue really.

29:26 - In some ways

29:27 - in

29:28 - European experiences

29:29 - that the idea that you would have

29:31 - a government that would not impose religious tests on those who sought to hold

29:35 - offices

29:36 - and you're right that i mean

29:37 - obviously right now especially in contemporary constitutional law we talk a lot about

29:41 - the history and tradition of these different provisions of the constitution

29:45 - including the first amendment

29:47 - and one of the things that people have been looking at a lot is what would what would

29:50 - have been the markers of a quote unquote establishment

29:53 - of religion and it would have been things like

29:55 - coerced attendance at worship services or paying fines if you didn't attend the

30:00 - worship services of the established church.

30:03 - Conformity with regard to matters of belief and

30:06 - the the

30:07 - articles of the of the church of England.

30:10 - In in their experience.

30:13 - Things like forced assessment and taxation for the support of clergy and churches

30:17 - all those kinds of things that were kind of markers of establishment that that's what

30:21 - in many respects the first amendment and the whole kind of

30:24 - several decades of.

30:26 - Debate

30:27 - running up to the

30:29 - ratification the first amendment

30:30 - that's what they were worried about that's what they are rebelling against and and

30:33 - the freedom of assembly as you point out but there's freedom of assembly part of that

30:37 - of the

30:38 - first amendment as well but

30:39 - assembly with regard to religion to form communities

30:42 - and

30:43 - again free from government

30:44 - coercion with regards to what kinds of forms of community.

30:48 - In in

30:49 - religious belief.

30:51 - Government sanctioned or not

30:53 - and just to clarify for every base so the first amendment

30:56 - before the eighteen sixties applies to whom

30:59 - only to the federal well

31:01 - before the

31:01 - almost the nineteen forties

31:03 - only applies to the

31:04 - to the national government

31:06 - so when we're when we're talking about this first amendment and we're talking about

31:09 - it they're clarifying that this first amendment

31:11 - the

31:12 - the national government

31:13 - can't tell you

31:14 - which religion to pack

31:16 - you can't can't say which religion you can have or not have

31:20 - this does not apply to state governments

31:23 - so before we get again before we dive into

31:26 - eastern state just clarifying that in the name

31:29 - and we can talk about the religion here and kind of unpack that a little

31:33 - kid you talk a little bit about

31:35 - how our state government's treating religions

31:39 - in the different states

31:40 - after the constitution was ratified

31:43 - so

31:44 - on the two could have problems with the first

31:45 - on the establishment trout there were as I've mentioned briefly there were state

31:48 - establishments of real estate established churches in this and

31:52 - then the

31:52 - colonies and then

31:53 - the states.

31:55 - End of the nineteenth century but by the roughly eighteen thirty or so

31:59 - all of those

32:00 - state established churches have been done away with

32:03 - no more state established churches

32:05 - and there was a right of free exercise i mentioned including the Pennsylvania

32:08 - constitution and seventeen seventy six and it's successors

32:11 - a lot state constitutions even though the

32:14 - the federal first amendment only applies to the national government

32:17 - until it does

32:18 - in

32:19 - twentieth century it becomes to

32:21 - incorporated as we say against the states and the local governments

32:25 - but many of the state constitutions has had similar protections

32:28 - so it's not like it was you know that there is a

32:31 - complete Joseph freedom of religion at the national level

32:34 - and then a lot of coercion here at the state level because of many if.

32:39 - Of the state constitutions had protections for free exercise

32:43 - and then we start thinking about states of incarceration

32:47 - and

32:47 - states of incarceration are

32:49 - pretty new

32:50 - when eastern state comes into existence and eighteen

32:53 - it starting to be built in eighteen twenty two

32:55 - it for it's first incarcerated person his name was Charles and eighteen twenty nine

33:00 - how are the framers thinking about this new idea of jails jails are not new but

33:06 - larger sites of penitentiaries and prisons are newer in this time period

33:11 - how are they thinking of religion and incarceration

33:14 - and.

33:15 - I confess that area i'm a particular expert on it is true i think it's fair to say

33:20 - that people who were incarcerated.

33:24 - Were

33:25 - were

33:26 - treated and let's say differentially to put it mildly with their hearts with the

33:29 - exercise of their constitutional rights

33:31 - and i

33:33 - knew that still endures up to this day right

33:35 - there are various ways in which

33:37 - some of the same guarantees that we would readily acknowledge

33:40 - are preparing tried and and the bill of rights.

33:43 - Or the state analogues to it that those did not apply

33:46 - in the context of prisons but there were all these in you know in the nineteenth

33:49 - century are all way through the twentieth century

33:51 - there are including as well go here from the subsequent panel i'm sure

33:55 - there were all these v various kind of reform efforts

33:57 - both in England and here i mean there's you know the

34:00 - utilitarian in England like Jeremy Bentham are

34:03 - engaging in all kinds of penal reform.

34:05 - Experiments and there are all those similar kind of reform movements here

34:09 - and

34:10 - much of that is religiously inflected and i think it's

34:12 - important to underscore that that much of that was about.

34:15 - Trees eating.

34:17 - Your trick treating prisons and penitentiaries and we

34:21 - would we would not call kind of the

34:23 - corrective justice system

34:24 - treating that as in a way that was often

34:27 - framed in a religious.

34:30 - Often quite expressive the kind of religious terms that

34:33 - people should be bringing about to you know penance and to be reformed

34:37 - so that they can be returned to society.

34:41 - And so a lot of allows these experiments that you see

34:45 - in

34:45 - the nineteenth and twentieth century

34:47 - penitentiary.

34:50 - Contexts

34:51 - have this religious aspect to them and so while i again i i'd be

34:56 - i think it's

34:56 - there'd be

34:57 - very limited ways in which we would think of

34:59 - your religious free exercise in the prison context although

35:02 - they had

35:03 - i think prison chaplains were of

35:05 - fairly familiar the thing.

35:07 - Going way back but i do think that there is a way in which

35:10 - there is this idea that

35:12 - religion and criminal justice.

35:15 - And in various ways

35:17 - were intertwined and linked

35:19 - and we we are in the middle of

35:22 - redoing our freedom through faith exhibit it is a new exhibit

35:27 - that is supporting our synagogue here this is the first synagogue

35:32 - on a site of incarceration in america.

35:35 - Later tonight if you have an opportunity to see it it is a powerful sites.

35:40 - The

35:41 - wreck the

35:41 - richlin family is a part of that story we are so honored to have you here with us

35:46 - tonight to be continue to tell that story

35:49 - and we have been deeply involved in the research on that work

35:53 - and connecting those pieces and a part of that research

35:56 - has shared kind of the centering of their religious belief leafs in the systems here

36:01 - at eastern state that helped us really

36:03 - dive into some of those cases not just here at eastern state across Pennsylvania and

36:08 - across the country of the people that have been

36:10 - incarcerated at different sites across the country

36:14 - and who have pushed back to say

36:16 - that it is not just one religion that gets to be

36:19 - deemed the appropriate or the favoured religion

36:22 - out of sight of incarceration

36:24 - but it is my religion and then what does that

36:27 - look like too so it it is not just the ability

36:30 - to practice your religion

36:31 - but to gather

36:32 - but to have a religious text

36:35 - but to have religious view to have religious ceremonies to

36:38 - be able to pray in the way you deserve to pray in as well

36:42 - and calling on these original founding

36:44 - documents these original founding pieces as well

36:48 - through that research our history and here has also found on record

36:53 - a eighteen forty one record that does believe the first

36:57 - record of a Muslim prisoner on record here as well

37:01 - so we're going through the

37:02 - the

37:03 - data to be able to really make sure that data is

37:07 - accurate and justified in three different ways

37:10 - but really fascinating look at it because this site

37:13 - began with a quaker influence

37:15 - but it also had a very strong influence of

37:18 - Christian and protestant religion

37:20 - cause that was a religion of favor at the time

37:23 - but it also had a very large movement of the Jewish religion as well

37:28 - and so we see those layers here in Philadelphia and at eastern state

37:32 - very differently because of the framing as well

37:36 - so when we start to look at this today and we look at this movement

37:40 - have you know religious freedom at different sites

37:43 - where some of those conversations happening today

37:47 - at sites of incarceration and within our communities and where are we seeing those

37:52 - the conversations about how do we move and frame our religious dialogues today and

37:59 - where are those questions arising today lie

38:01 - they are

38:01 - arose two hundred and fifty years ago right

38:04 - well I'll take I'll take about the free exercise part in the establishment clause

38:08 - part so on the free exercise component

38:11 - there is actually a federal statute

38:12 - the religious land use and is to slice persons act that was enacted in two thousand

38:17 - that provides for a heightened measure of

38:21 - religious freedom protection for prisoners

38:24 - and in fact i was at a

38:26 - meeting as

38:27 - it was

38:27 - giving a presentation to a group of

38:29 - state attorneys general.

38:31 - In Washington a few years ago and

38:33 - i mentioned that statue will loop a religious land use district is to say persons act

38:37 - and you can see the state agee's cause of course

38:39 - they have a lot of these cases in for one of them

38:42 - and sure some of them are frivolous no doubt

38:44 - but you know there are some important ways in which

38:47 - that federal statute.

38:49 - You know enshrines and protects

38:51 - religious freedom

38:53 - in the prison context so just to

38:55 - make the leading supreme court case on this as a case called holt vs Hobbes in which

38:59 - an Arkansas prison forbade a must i'm a prisoner from growing a beard

39:03 - they said that for safety reasons.

39:06 - He could cannot

39:06 - be allowed to grow a beard

39:08 - and the statute says that if you have if you

39:12 - substantially burden someone's religious free exercise the government has to show

39:15 - that has a compelling interest in

39:17 - doing it and that really you know that basically

39:19 - the government has really good reasons for doing it

39:22 - in a unanimous opinion by justice alito the supreme court says Arkansas prison you

39:27 - have to allow the Muslim prisoner to grow his beard

39:29 - your you know sort of

39:32 - not not completely made up but

39:34 - your your your safety

39:35 - justification for it

39:36 - are are

39:37 - simply not not persuasive enough for you to prohibit this prisoner from

39:42 - from going

39:44 - from

39:44 - pursuing his his religious practice

39:47 - in the prison now of course there would be other

39:49 - contexts in which the government's reasons for

39:52 - burning someone's religious

39:53 - freedom might

39:54 - be

39:55 - more persuasive

39:56 - but that's just an illustration of the way in which.

39:59 - Again as a matter of federal law that applies in that context of the states as well

40:04 - others a heightened measure of

40:05 - protection for religious free exercise and then just on the establishment clause point

40:10 - there was a period in the

40:12 - roughly let's say you could have forties and fifties and

40:14 - then really in the seventies and eighties and nineties of the

40:17 - twentieth century

40:18 - where the supreme court had a kind of

40:20 - very strongly kind of separation this view with

40:23 - regard to the interaction of of church and state

40:26 - and the inability of of of funding for state programs to

40:31 - to go to

40:32 - religious institutions and in all kinds of different ways

40:35 - and the court in my view quite

40:38 - quite appropriately has ratchet that back on that

40:41 - and that has

40:42 - big applications and for things like charitable

40:44 - choice programs for instance for prison rehabilitation

40:46 - programs so that prison rehabilitation programs

40:49 - many of which

40:50 - are operated in the context

40:53 - of religious institutions

40:55 - and have some measure of success

40:58 - is often

40:59 - i'm told at least.

41:00 - A better success sometimes than

41:02 - other kinds of programs that there should not be you know sort of

41:06 - barriers

41:07 - erected to

41:08 - allow the government

41:10 - to provide for that kind of funding for

41:12 - what after all is a government is you know it's the interests of the state

41:16 - for people to be successfully rehabilitated and reentered into their communities

41:20 - after they serve their sentences and the ways in which the supreme court and the

41:24 - establishment clause context that they kind of over read

41:27 - what those prohibitions on funding should look like i think it's all to the good

41:32 - that many of those programs now

41:34 - state funded programs called refund programs

41:37 - include religious participants

41:39 - in the provision of those k kinds of services.

41:42 - I'm really excited that you brought up Hobbes

41:44 - as well because that is in the exhibit as well

41:47 - which opens on July second i know when you brought that up i was like i'm married and

41:51 - out of here because that's all in the exhibit

41:53 - and it's really important that we unpack this because

41:56 - that is a modern conversation this is a modern

41:59 - dialogue that we're looking at today this isn't

42:01 - something that we're just talk king about one

42:03 - hundred and fifty years ago two hundred years ago

42:06 - these are the questions and when we talk

42:07 - about sites of incarceration their black boxes

42:10 - there are boxes we can't see into in so many states in so many places

42:15 - and when we talk about this tension what we see is

42:18 - where our people's religious freedoms

42:22 - able to be had and where are they not depending

42:25 - on safety and security and that question was

42:27 - was that person able to grow their beard and

42:30 - the question from the president's side was

42:32 - it is causing an undue harm at the prison center and

42:35 - so that had to go all the way to the supreme court

42:38 - but it is not always evident

42:41 - to people on the outside so we we are lucky enough in Pennsylvania

42:45 - to have the prison society

42:47 - which is one of the few states that this is written into the charter

42:51 - of our p a constitution

42:55 - that we have

42:56 - a people's organization

42:59 - that can go into prisons to check on our community

43:02 - this is very very unique to Pennsylvania again something different about our state

43:07 - to ensure that our community checks on each other

43:10 - very important i invite you all back

43:12 - July second or if you're busy that weekend i get it

43:16 - anytime after that it's going to be a powerful exhibit

43:20 - professor Mike moreland we can say up here all night i'm really excited to talk ok to

43:23 - you further and we will have you back after when that exhibit opens to talk even more

43:28 - about all the refresh that we can talk about thank you

43:30 - so much everybody please give professor make more let.

43:40 - Hello everyone and welcome back it's exciting to have you all back with us

43:44 - and this part of the evening is devoted to looking

43:47 - at justice restorative justice and coming home

43:50 - my name's Korea santner i'm the president and ceo here at eastern state

43:54 - and i am privileged to have the three of you here

43:57 - with me tonight and tonight is a very special night

44:00 - tonight is actually the celebration of ead

44:03 - which is a wonderful religious holiday and to do

44:06 - it's service and justice i'm going to turn it over

44:10 - to a man Abdullah to give us a little bit of story and some history and

44:15 - a religious ceremony with us tonight thank you.

44:18 - Everyone thank you very much curry.

44:20 - Dr sultana thank you very very much

44:23 - for having me here to the

44:24 - anti eastern state family really appreciate

44:27 - being here

44:28 - as

44:29 - the soul dimension today is the Eve celebration

44:32 - and

44:33 - this is the second ied

44:35 - of the year so the only two eads we have

44:38 - to fit the

44:39 - witch hat guns at the end of the fasting month

44:41 - and then we have

44:42 - alcohol

44:43 - which is the celebration of the sacrifice.

44:46 - That is actually happening right now

44:49 - many of you may be familiar with the hajj

44:51 - or the pilgrimage

44:52 - where millions make the journey

44:55 - to makkah

44:56 - to celebrate that tradition so that's actually what we in the middle love

45:00 - right now.

45:02 - And anyone who is in the room who are celebrating to eat

45:05 - the greeting is ied mobile truck are all blessed deed

45:09 - to you.

45:10 - Than others especially meaningful and i'm going to be.

45:14 - You'll see me glancing at my tablet a bit and the reason is

45:18 - the often say you don't give a microphone to

45:21 - a politician and a professor

45:23 - or a priest right

45:25 - and somewhere along the line i became all three i teach.

45:30 - I teach.

45:32 - Part of the clergy

45:33 - and know i find myself in politics so

45:36 - i'm going to really try to stick

45:38 - to the time limit that i have

45:40 - with me to do.

45:42 - This either particular they

45:44 - mention is the aida sacrifice

45:45 - but as this i'd have a moment of return is this return to glory center community

45:50 - to what is most essential in our community.

45:53 - So as you mentioned these are the days of hodge

45:55 - on one of the things i want to touch on as

45:57 - what does this really commemorate

45:59 - a really high level

46:02 - this is a story of Abraham

46:04 - and his wife hija

46:06 - or hagar

46:07 - depending on how we are

46:08 - pronouncing it

46:10 - this Eve evening

46:11 - but this story and i know intellectually

46:14 - we have different versions of the story.

46:17 - But the the from the Muslim perspective ride the the version of the story goes that.

46:22 - Abraham's wife hugger

46:24 - oh

46:25 - yeah hydra

46:26 - she

46:26 - she had a child and

46:28 - Abraham was commanded by god

46:30 - to

46:30 - take his wife

46:32 - and child to makkah and leave them.

46:34 - So he takes them to mecca

46:36 - and he leaves them there

46:38 - and as he's leaving them

46:40 - hugger says

46:42 - what are you doing.

46:44 - Because there's an infant who she is with

46:45 - like what are you doing

46:47 - is a police that she was taken to

46:48 - they will unfamiliar with what are you doing

46:50 - and then she asks

46:51 - is this the command of your lord and he just says yes

46:55 - and she says in paraphrasing

46:57 - well if this is the command of your lord

46:59 - then your lord will not abandon me.

47:02 - Or your lord and that abandoned us

47:04 - and that was it

47:05 - and he left.

47:06 - So the reason why i touch on that and

47:08 - this idea of hajj

47:10 - everything that happens around it

47:12 - is about the family of Abraham.

47:15 - Rides the

47:16 - to walk around the kaaba

47:18 - the running between the two mountains that had or did

47:20 - everything of all the hajj

47:22 - is really in celebration recognition or commemoration of the family

47:27 - of the prophet Abraham

47:28 - peace be upon him.

47:30 - So

47:31 - in that summary right

47:32 - what this reminds us is that

47:35 - to be.

47:36 - Human.

47:39 - Is to be really

47:40 - dependent on god or the creator

47:43 - in so many ways

47:45 - but and also to be

47:46 - challenge and to struggle with things

47:49 - that are put before us

47:50 - by the creator himself.

47:52 - In our tradition we understand that rely on the creator

47:55 - as well as rely on each other.

47:58 - The pilgrimage itself is an active struggle

48:00 - endurance accountability support

48:02 - unwritten

48:03 - people walk together they worship together the arrest together

48:06 - we help strangers

48:08 - we carry one another true exhaustion

48:10 - on uncertainty heat

48:11 - and difficulty and.

48:14 - As someone who has made

48:15 - the hide before

48:16 - all of these things

48:18 - are just words

48:19 - when you experience it

48:21 - it's

48:21 - way more than the woods can actually

48:23 - convey

48:25 - but in many ways it stands in stark contrast to the system of

48:29 - incarceration

48:30 - that we have built and dr sorta touched on this

48:33 - earlier on in the convent shall adopt the moreland

48:35 - when we speak about this idea of isolation

48:38 - this idea of abandonment

48:39 - this idea of permanent exclusion

48:42 - the pilgrimage stands in stark contrast

48:45 - to that

48:46 - and

48:46 - so when we start speaking about this

48:48 - we have decided one of the tragedies of incarceration

48:51 - and caused the recent

48:53 - incarceration in this this country.

48:56 - Is not only the confinement itself

48:58 - but the erosion of this idea of belonging.

49:01 - Right that we are part of a community

49:04 - and that we are connected to each other

49:06 - and have faith or faith traditions is supposed to remind us

49:11 - of that right

49:12 - especially when it

49:13 - contrasts with this idea of incarceration

49:15 - the marriage that many people receive

49:17 - long after their release is that

49:19 - they are disposable they are disconnected

49:21 - and they're beyond restoration.

49:24 - Our faith traditions

49:26 - challenge that idea.

49:28 - Of faith traditions pushes back against this idea that

49:31 - human beings are disposable and listening to commentary

49:34 - you'll have mentioned about this idea that we are all born we are all created

49:38 - with this dignity

49:39 - that the creator bestowed upon us

49:42 - that

49:42 - faith traditions tell us that we should not be disconnected

49:46 - but we should be connected

49:47 - to the creator

49:48 - onto each other

49:49 - on faith traditions tell us that

49:51 - none of us

49:52 - are beyond restoration

49:54 - no matter what happened

49:56 - we are not beyond the

49:57 - rest of the region so.

49:59 - Because each human being

50:00 - is given dignity

50:02 - and because we're here

50:04 - in this space joining of this conversation i look forward

50:07 - to

50:08 - continuing in this conversation with you and i am pleased

50:11 - to be here on this city

50:13 - i have questions about doing it on this the right

50:15 - because i needed to get permission from my family

50:17 - to leave them

50:18 - but i really am please just based on what

50:21 - the conversation has been already

50:23 - to continue this conversation with you so thank you very much

50:26 - thank you

50:26 - please give them a round of applause.

50:32 - And

50:33 - i do want an accent thank you to your family that's in the room

50:36 - and your family that's online for allowing you to be here as well.

50:40 - There are a lot of our

50:42 - leaders for tonight both you and

50:46 - doctor price

50:47 - who is at home

50:48 - with his baby and his wife right now taking care of them

50:51 - there is a lot that our religious leaders do to hold onto community

50:56 - to take care of other people's communities and

50:58 - families because they see them as their own

51:00 - and they do also need to take care of their

51:03 - he says well so thank you so much for that work that you do

51:06 - and dr price if you're listening at home we thank

51:08 - you as well and please kiss that baby for us.

51:11 - So

51:12 - thank you for leading into that and thank you so much

51:16 - for talking about belonging we talk about

51:18 - that that is a modern word that is so powerful

51:21 - and really does centers in this conversation tonight

51:25 - and also reframing that word restoration for me

51:29 - we talk about restoration here all the time at eastern state i'm

51:33 - looking at like some of our board members in the room

51:35 - that literally do the work of physical restoration

51:38 - and to think about it in the sense of human restoration

51:42 - is just go going to be something that we talk about so much more at eastern state

51:47 - i would really like to go through with each one of

51:49 - you and talk about the work that you do in your field

51:53 - and take a moment to dive into the work that you're doing

51:56 - and share with our larger group here

51:59 - about how you're doing that work how each of your organization

52:02 - is connecting to your community building belonging

52:06 - and using your organization to do that work.

52:10 - Mister webb could you begin with this conversation we'll.

52:13 - Bring it

52:14 - to you over here.

52:17 - Absolutely thank you

52:18 - is the mic working okay

52:19 - alright

52:20 - so i'm neither a politician

52:22 - nor professor

52:24 - nor clergy so i have no excuse.

52:27 - That talk quickly and.

52:30 - I'll leave extra space for you in April.

52:33 - Remember the clergy also

52:35 - leave a lot of space.

52:38 - So i am the u s peace building director for the American friends service committee

52:43 - i joined the fsc in two thousand and ten.

52:46 - In our new York office

52:48 - where i was tasked with

52:50 - addressing the new York approach to healing justice which is

52:53 - how we talk about the criminal legal system

52:56 - and fsc

52:59 - in nineteen seventy

53:01 - nine i believe a seventy eight i forget

53:03 - issued a minute

53:04 - and that's a quake away of

53:06 - public statement

53:08 - and

53:09 - it issued that minute as result of the attica uprising.

53:13 - Does that mean

53:14 - something to everyone.

53:16 - And what that minutes said was that

53:18 - we are calling for a moratorium on prison construction.

53:23 - We are calling for a repeal of the exclusion clause of the

53:28 - thirteenth amendment which

53:29 - kind of justifies incarceration as slave labor

53:34 - and we also talked about a vision of prison abolition.

53:39 - So when i

53:40 - was given that minute my first day at work i kind of giggled inside

53:44 - because i had a

53:46 - long

53:46 - career in the criminal legal system

53:49 - started off as a prosecutor in new York city

53:51 - then started defending the largest jail in the country

53:55 - rikers island

53:56 - in court with

53:57 - a brown the ways that they were treating people lol

53:59 - and so i showed up at a fsc kind of thing

54:02 - yeah

54:02 - alright

54:03 - I'll do what i'm gonna do you guys can have this unbelievable and unrealistic vision

54:08 - of the world but i'm just going to show up and do what i do

54:10 - month

54:12 - and.

54:13 - Year after i started

54:15 - it was the.

54:17 - Fortieth anniversary of the attica rising

54:20 - and so in new York we decided that we would bring some of the attica brothers together

54:26 - to talk about that experience

54:28 - in nineteen seventy one

54:29 - and my task was to find the.

54:32 - Right

54:32 - so i started reaching out to people who i thought might know

54:36 - and they started giving me names

54:37 - and one of the names was hutch.

54:41 - So i reached out i found out where hutch was

54:44 - and i reached out to him and i said

54:46 - we would love for you to speak at this event

54:49 - and hutch said you know i'd love to

54:52 - but i don't know how to get to you

54:54 - and i said oh don't worry about it we can help you do that he said

54:57 - well i'm sure i can figure out the directions

55:00 - but i don't know how to get around.

55:03 - I didn't quite understand what he meant

55:05 - and he said well I've been in prison for forty four years.

55:08 - I came home about a year ago.

55:10 - I dunno how to cross the street.

55:13 - Cars weren't doing what they're doing now when i went to prison

55:17 - the world was very different.

55:19 - So we figured out a way to get hutch to our

55:21 - offices into the event at the riverside church

55:25 - and in those conversations with hutch and some of the other attica brothers i

55:30 - realized that my real role at fsc it

55:33 - would be to connect with those who have been

55:36 - sentenced to long term incarceration

55:39 - so that's why i decided to dedicate my work

55:41 - to the reentry

55:43 - and the experiences of serving more than fifteen years in prison.

55:48 - Thank you to her

55:52 - and so the easiest way was to find people who had

55:54 - recently come home after long term incarceration

55:58 - and i started making

55:59 - with establishing relationships with them

56:02 - and.

56:05 - None of you have been to my house for Thanksgiving ice.

56:08 - It is amazing you have

56:09 - i don't remember.

56:11 - Yeah you might have right.

56:13 - It's amazing as long as i do the cooking right

56:16 - but my

56:17 - bike's not here.

56:19 - She might be watching that

56:22 - i think the zoom link is on my desk somewhere.

56:25 - It's a possibility

56:26 - but

56:27 - might have been

56:28 - maybe.

56:30 - Twenty twelve at twenty thirteen

56:32 - i decided that i would invite some of the men that i had come to know.

56:36 - Add.

56:38 - In my work at a fsc c

56:39 - to my home for Thanksgiving dinner.

56:43 - Not sure it was the right decision to make but it was

56:45 - one that i decided to bring to my family in advance

56:48 - and i'm going to share this story with you because i want you all

56:52 - to kind of

56:53 - find out where you land in this story

56:55 - you know we're going to talk about faith

56:57 - and often we talk about faith as an institution

57:01 - but for me it's a personal relief kinship

57:03 - and so i'm going to invite you into that personal

57:06 - space with me

57:07 - and you're going to end up with a few choices

57:10 - okay

57:11 - so i went to my wife and i said

57:13 - i'd like to invite a few people over for Thanksgiving sure who.

57:17 - Larry jazz.

57:19 - I dunno them

57:20 - she

57:21 - said well i'm going to be honest with you.

57:23 - Jazz was a lieutenant for.

57:27 - Who was one of the major drug dealers i'm drawing a blank

57:30 - in new York in the seventies and eighties i forget the name

57:33 - but

57:34 - Nicky Barnes is that right

57:37 - and

57:38 - he had spent about thirty years in prison.

57:41 - And Larry.

57:44 - Had broken out of rikers island twice.

57:47 - Had murdered.

57:50 - Maybe three or four people.

57:53 - Yeah alright.

57:54 - Yeah and

57:56 - i'm inviting them to dinner.

57:59 - So my wife who's very.

58:02 - Claire and her perspective.

58:05 - He said to me don't you're not.

58:07 - And she started talking about her own life experience

58:10 - she had been the victim of a violent crime when she was young

58:13 - and we had a five year old at home and she started talking about.

58:19 - Take them out to dinner

58:20 - do something else i don't want them in the home

58:23 - and.

58:25 - It was an interesting conversation

58:27 - it was an opening conversation for me.

58:30 - Because i brought a certain perspective that wasn't hers.

58:34 - And as we have this conversation i don't know what your perspectives are

58:38 - but i invite you to decide are you more meat.

58:42 - Are you more my wife.

58:44 - Are you more Larry a jazz

58:46 - and what does it mean to be in any of those spaces

58:49 - whereas we have this conversation about reentry

58:52 - and faith

58:53 - okay

58:54 - so i just ask you to carry that with you throughout

58:56 - the rest of this conversation this evening.

58:59 - We survived they came and.

59:01 - Yeah

59:02 - they ate well

59:03 - and

59:03 - they've been back since.

59:07 - At fsc we

59:09 - we talked about the quaker tradition and it's relationship to this institution.

59:14 - As a matter of faith we believe that people find their god

59:18 - in themselves

59:20 - and we don't have religious leaders in the

59:22 - context of clergy members for the most part

59:24 - some.

59:25 - Meetings do but most of us

59:27 - vision of the world in which we commune with god and get to know them in our own way

59:32 - and

59:33 - when people are identified as having committed offences

59:37 - quakers believe the best way to reform

59:40 - and to rehabilitate

59:41 - was to give them opportunity to commune with god

59:44 - and unfortunately we thought that we met in solitary confinement.

59:49 - In silence

59:51 - so that there would be no distractions for that

59:53 - relationship and the opportunity to reform

59:56 - clearly a mistake one that has led to

59:58 - 618 horrific consequences for

01:00 - 04.828 people who have experienced it in for all of us i dare say why.

01:00 - 07.278 And so now my work is

01:00 - 08.478 pretty broad

01:00 - 11.298 it doesn't just limit myself to

01:00 - 12.198 prison work

01:00 - 14.898 now my task is to figure out a way to

01:00 - 16.588 bring peace

01:00 - 17.448 to the entire

01:00 - 18.108 us

01:00 - 22.398 so if you ever see me without a job you know i failed my performance review because

01:00 - 24.708 we're not quite at peace yet but that's that's

01:00 - 26.958 that's how i'm showing up in this space

01:00 - 27.858 and i.

01:00 - 30.078 Again encourage you to

01:00 - 32.238 think about how you're showing up in this space.

01:00 - 33.258 Thank you

01:00 - 34.338 thank you

01:00 - 35.628 i appreciate that

01:00 - 36.898 you

01:00 - 37.878 and in

01:00 - 41.107 the very method that you do so much restorative work is

01:00 - 44.388 it's always about reflecting back on oneself and saying

01:00 - 47.328 with no judge man where do you sit in a journey

01:00 - 51.918 and just looking about where you are and where you're moving forward

01:00 - 56.548 or where what direction you're moving at all even without a directional pointing.

01:00 - 58.758 Thank you i really appreciate that

01:00 - 59.808 now

01:00 - 00.528 and

01:01 - 03.708 reverend dr Damon Jones

01:01 - 06.288 i appreciate the amazing level

01:01 - 12.438 of accolades you all have up here you all are just so accomplished i was also fanning

01:01 - 14.748 out that he also has a street named after him

01:01 - 18.058 which is not a lotta people do envy.

01:01 - 19.594 That are still alive let's do

01:01 - 20.864 it.

01:01 - 21.590 But

01:01 - 24.364 you do such amazing work for your community

01:01 - 28.714 you have built up such an amazing impact in this city

01:01 - 33.514 could you talk a little bit about your organization and the work that you have done

01:01 - 35.644 with your entire family that you have brought

01:01 - 38.134 here tonight as well thank you so much for that

01:01 - 38.997 and

01:01 - 40.858 talk about the youth at your engaging and

01:01 - 43.354 the impact that you're having on their lives

01:01 - 44.944 tell us more about that

01:01 - 46.144 what sourcebooks for

01:01 - 47.734 remember excited to be you're

01:01 - 51.824 one of the few men in the world and looks forward to coming to prison.

01:01 - 53.014 But

01:01 - 55.784 fuck you for for having man

01:01 - 57.184 to to my colleagues here

01:01 - 58.664 and.

01:01 - 00.974 I just turned sixty years old

01:02 - 01.730 and

01:02 - 03.014 like you

01:02 - 04.184 and.

01:02 - 06.284 Somebody said whether.

01:02 - 09.604 So i said when you when you're past sixty you're getting older

01:02 - 13.364 you start telling stories based on how long you've done stuff.

01:02 - 14.534 So.

01:02 - 16.174 It was probably

01:02 - 19.294 about why i was a teenager will say that way

01:02 - 21.884 and i'm in Sunday school

01:02 - 24.704 and this class and my teacher.

01:02 - 28.294 You know is not such a wonderful job talking about the kingdom

01:02 - 29.744 and.

01:02 - 32.554 I didn't fully understand so he's explaining it and.

01:02 - 36.194 I said well i think i think i may have a call to preach

01:02 - 38.794 and he says we'll do the work of an evangelist

01:02 - 42.454 make full proof of your ministry quoting Bible i dunno what that means

01:02 - 44.764 so he says why don't you go

01:02 - 46.654 to the jail why me and i said no

01:02 - 48.574 i said i wanted to preach i didn't.

01:02 - 51.434 Say anything about going anybody jail.

01:02 - 52.624 And

01:02 - 57.434 finally he explained it all i go to jail with him it was the old homes work prison

01:02 - 01.204 and that's where i did my actual first public sermon was in

01:03 - 02.764 the gym at home-start prison

01:03 - 06.874 and from that moment i couldn't stop thinking about it

01:03 - 08.374 and i really wanted to

01:03 - 09.944 go back.

01:03 - 11.234 So

01:03 - 13.324 somebody else tells me i have a car then

01:03 - 14.104 and

01:03 - 17.344 you know this other young lady in our church says why go to the Philadelphia study

01:03 - 20.584 center at twenty the parkway and you could go

01:03 - 21.154 there

01:03 - 21.784 since you're

01:03 - 23.524 since the road is so far away

01:03 - 25.244 and i said.

01:03 - 30.194 What is it you study so i i have such a sheltered life i had no idea

01:03 - 32.044 that there was a juvenile prison

01:03 - 33.494 downtown

01:03 - 33.964 i just

01:03 - 35.384 had no idea.

01:03 - 39.574 So they take me there i meet this guy he's a chaplain reverend James hazard and he

01:03 - 42.274 starts teaching me all of this stuff about how to work with

01:03 - 44.584 kids who are incarcerated

01:03 - 46.564 and he assigned me the first day

01:03 - 50.206 to the unit where there are kids who were charged with

01:03 - 53.134 homicide i'm blown away i had no idea kids were killing

01:03 - 54.284 people.

01:03 - 58.774 So i work with those kids on that unit and that kind of started everything so

01:03 - 02.854 fast forward i ended up thirty two years ago as pastor of Bible way baptist church in

01:04 - 06.314 west Philadelphia where i tried to continue some of that work.

01:04 - 08.614 In the community working with young men

01:04 - 10.114 you know particularly who who have

01:04 - 12.664 you know are at risk and then

01:04 - 15.434 we had a mayor Michael nutter.

01:04 - 16.804 Who appoints me

01:04 - 17.954 too.

01:04 - 20.594 The board of ethics

01:04 - 23.254 and i'm sitting around these attorneys

01:04 - 24.484 and you'll appreciate this

01:04 - 26.824 and i dunno what they're talking about

01:04 - 27.304 you know

01:04 - 29.434 they're saying that campaign finance i mean

01:04 - 32.024 all this stuff city city council

01:04 - 33.785 and one day i'm just sitting here i don't know

01:04 - 36.274 what they're talking about i said does anybody here

01:04 - 40.744 get that can tell me what will inaugurate the eschaton and they all looked at me like

01:04 - 42.884 what do you mean i'm say exactly

01:04 - 46.924 i'm talking theological stuff none of you understand what i'm talking about and i

01:04 - 48.634 don't understand what you are talking about.

01:04 - 50.494 So i run into

01:04 - 51.214 another

01:04 - 54.074 and i said look i gotta get off this board i don't.

01:04 - 56.164 I have no passion for this adult

01:04 - 58.484 i'm not a lawyer i don't want to do this.

01:04 - 03.304 He says you gotta state because we're going into campaign season and we need the

01:05 - 06.574 board of ethics to be functioning and if you come off we don't have enough people and

01:05 - 08.314 we can't function nor campaign season

01:05 - 12.283 i said well if i'm taking one for the team what am i going to get.

01:05 - 14.044 And he says what do you want

01:05 - 15.034 well i'm thinking

01:05 - 17.224 if if the mayor says what do you want you

01:05 - 19.514 probably should have at least two things.

01:05 - 20.974 So

01:05 - 21.634 i said

01:05 - 23.559 well i'd like to have the property across the

01:05 - 25.414 street from my church if you could help me

01:05 - 27.364 somehow navigate that and he

01:05 - 29.812 he worked through city council and helped me

01:05 - 31.774 to get the property Crosby from our church.

01:05 - 35.824 I said the other thing is i want to get off the board of ethics and the first leaked

01:05 - 38.954 it opens on the board of prisons i'd like to have that seat

01:05 - 39.604 and

01:05 - 42.514 so he he signed off and i became part of the

01:05 - 43.594 border persons

01:05 - 46.124 that was fifteen years ago

01:05 - 47.952 and i'm still there we don't we're just getting

01:05 - 50.894 to the point of putting another board in place

01:05 - 53.044 but i'm no longer a board member

01:05 - 55.354 but in the process of that

01:05 - 59.294 i was able to create this program called the brotherhood foundation

01:05 - 02.804 which is a mess entering program that uses basketball

01:06 - 04.874 to get the kids.

01:06 - 08.374 Kind of to a place where we can have conversation with them

01:06 - 10.174 so every other Thursday

01:06 - 14.054 i take a team of anywhere between fifteen and twenty men.

01:06 - 15.184 From our church

01:06 - 18.904 and community and we go up to state road philosophy prisons

01:06 - 21.274 and we have a a bang basketball game

01:06 - 23.674 and then we have a mentoring session

01:06 - 25.144 what i didn't know

01:06 - 29.264 is that relationships would begin to build through this program

01:06 - 32.374 and so now we have and it's the same group that i started with

01:06 - 35.104 when i was at the study center years ago

01:06 - 38.764 these are all the kids that you all of you from Philadelphia you see on the news

01:06 - 40.864 these are these are the juvenile gang things

01:06 - 44.974 the shootings to the roxboro high school shooting just as all of this stuff that you

01:06 - 49.244 hear about on the news so these are the kids that that i'm actually working with

01:06 - 50.374 and so

01:06 - 51.544 that's the

01:06 - 54.574 that's what draws me into this space it's

01:06 - 56.944 it's building these relationships with

01:06 - 02.024 with kids that are for the most part kind of thrown away kind of forgotten

01:07 - 04.664 kind of left out kind of marginalized

01:07 - 06.064 and so

01:07 - 06.904 i

01:07 - 09.794 do this program and i bring

01:07 - 13.144 things that the system does not provide for them normally

01:07 - 16.514 unless you get it on commissary so.

01:07 - 20.104 My goal is to make sure that every kid has at least

01:07 - 22.894 seven changes of underwear because when you come in

01:07 - 24.844 prison only gives you one change

01:07 - 26.434 what you came in with and

01:07 - 28.664 whatever they give you.

01:07 - 30.874 Michael was a have sep so i raise money

01:07 - 33.484 to make sure that these kids have at least

01:07 - 34.174 you know

01:07 - 35.014 cause i'm thinking

01:07 - 36.394 what teenage boy

01:07 - 39.074 is going to wash his underwear out every night.

01:07 - 40.424 I.

01:07 - 40.984 Know

01:07 - 43.894 so so we provide that and then everytime we come

01:07 - 45.094 we bring a big

01:07 - 47.736 plastic bag gallon sized bag full of tasty cakes

01:07 - 50.834 and all kinds of snacks and those kind of things.

01:07 - 52.144 So people say how do you

01:07 - 54.994 how did you build a relationship with these kids these

01:07 - 57.424 are hardened kids they have killed people they have this

01:07 - 57.964 that

01:07 - 59.974 and and what they really say and is.

01:08 - 02.644 Already so connected to you because

01:08 - 04.414 most people don't I've never been

01:08 - 05.864 incarcerated

01:08 - 08.854 I've never been detained i dunno what handcuffs feel like

01:08 - 09.874 I've never

01:08 - 15.494 did any kind of drugs I've never hung out my sisters had to make me go to the prom.

01:08 - 17.464 I was a home guy

01:08 - 18.394 never

01:08 - 20.224 had two parents married

01:08 - 21.974 until they died

01:08 - 22.624 and

01:08 - 23.734 went to school

01:08 - 25.084 got my education

01:08 - 26.584 so there is nothing

01:08 - 29.524 that i had in common with these kids that i'm working with

01:08 - 33.374 and that's the part where i didn't realize what we were actually creating

01:08 - 35.284 because when i walk in

01:08 - 38.734 with what you i need toothpaste deodorant soap

01:08 - 40.064 snacks

01:08 - 41.294 underwear

01:08 - 43.784 it's like oh dad's here.

01:08 - 46.744 So you are providing the things that they don't have

01:08 - 51.794 and it's not long because normally a Metro relationship takes you with consistency

01:08 - 53.524 a good two years to build

01:08 - 55.004 a good relationship

01:08 - 56.854 ours happens in a couple of weeks

01:08 - 58.294 because i'm coming in

01:08 - 01.176 showing you that i'm concerned about you as opposed

01:09 - 03.214 to just telling you that i'm concerned about you

01:09 - 08.104 and so the program just says continue to to grow and develop

01:09 - 11.014 and it has morphed into something that is

01:09 - 12.334 at this point bigger than

01:09 - 13.484 me.

01:09 - 16.209 So that's what kind of draws me into this space.

01:09 - 18.724 There there's a level like

01:09 - 22.204 from an outside perspective somebody could look at that and say that's transactional

01:09 - 24.554 but in reality it's human dignity

01:09 - 27.034 and that is like when we look at

01:09 - 27.844 bass

01:09 - 31.024 you know in education we talk about maslin his theory of hierarchy

01:09 - 33.364 you're taking care of base needs

01:09 - 35.344 and that is human dignity

01:09 - 36.034 and

01:09 - 37.594 that children

01:09 - 41.074 are not getting that base human dignity need

01:09 - 44.224 and i mean that nobody is but children on top of that

01:09 - 45.554 is.

01:09 - 49.954 Is frightening it's quite honestly frightening but thank you frank thank you for that

01:09 - 52.804 service to our kids and they are our kids too

01:09 - 56.734 and we need to look at that and but again that thread thrill of

01:09 - 00.034 where are we in this journey where are we in this work

01:10 - 02.600 and what is how do we really connect and where is

01:10 - 06.644 that belonging and you really started us with that

01:10 - 07.485 and

01:10 - 08.404 again

01:10 - 09.154 mine

01:10 - 10.394 dr

01:10 - 11.164 keizer

01:10 - 17.254 like you you'll all are just doing so much good work out there and so much impact btw

01:10 - 18.514 your work

01:10 - 21.838 is in mediation is in teaching as you said in the

01:10 - 24.484 politics and the religion and all of this work

01:10 - 29.644 you have you have brought a new level into the city to connect the community to

01:10 - 31.954 to resources into support

01:10 - 32.974 how

01:10 - 34.414 where are you

01:10 - 39.554 connecting the city and how were you looking to go as well in your work.

01:10 - 41.684 Sorry big question.

01:10 - 43.984 Yeah.

01:10 - 46.864 I have this

01:10 - 48.614 vivid memory.

01:10 - 50.804 I had to be maybe.

01:10 - 52.204 I can put their

01:10 - 54.364 fifty so i had to meet maybe around

01:10 - 56.384 fifteen years old.

01:10 - 58.144 And

01:10 - 00.540 i remember i wasn't born in the united states

01:11 - 03.824 the accent may have given it away a little bit.

01:11 - 06.494 I was born in Trinidad and.

01:11 - 09.704 I have this distinct memory of my grandmother

01:11 - 11.194 she is supposed to be now

01:11 - 12.644 and

01:11 - 14.414 we were going to visit.

01:11 - 15.694 The prison

01:11 - 17.024 in Trinidad.

01:11 - 20.284 Because was his son my uncle who i looked up to a lot

01:11 - 21.914 he was incarcerated

01:11 - 24.254 and i remember.

01:11 - 28.050 Walking across the street with her

01:11 - 29.160 and

01:11 - 31.710 taking her accompanying her to the prison

01:11 - 33.700 to visit my uncle.

01:11 - 36.910 I think that was the first encounter

01:11 - 37.890 i had

01:11 - 39.030 with the

01:11 - 40.410 justice system

01:11 - 41.790 in that way

01:11 - 45.640 and as i said right this is an uncle i looked up to.

01:11 - 48.510 He at one point that he migrated to the united states

01:11 - 49.990 and.

01:11 - 54.040 Found himself incarcerated in the united states as well.

01:11 - 57.070 Came back home and.

01:11 - 59.380 Fallon himself.

01:11 - 00.750 Incarcerated

01:12 - 01.920 back home

01:12 - 03.660 again so he had

01:12 - 05.220 a consistent

01:12 - 07.660 relationship unfortunately

01:12 - 09.640 with the.

01:12 - 13.060 Cultural system of the prison system and.

01:12 - 14.280 He eventually died

01:12 - 14.850 in

01:12 - 16.390 and.

01:12 - 18.630 It wasn't a drive by shooting it was that they're shooting

01:12 - 20.460 at a card game he was at

01:12 - 22.720 and he he was killed.

01:12 - 26.320 And i mentioned that because.

01:12 - 28.909 I didn't think i was going to share that story

01:12 - 32.950 until i started really thinking of what was my first

01:12 - 34.120 initial

01:12 - 35.380 encounter

01:12 - 37.990 with this system and that.

01:12 - 39.580 Was it

01:12 - 41.880 and i think that has just sat with me

01:12 - 42.840 and

01:12 - 44.010 overtime

01:12 - 45.810 i'd have sat with me overtime

01:12 - 47.800 in terms of.

01:12 - 50.140 My other uncle.

01:12 - 51.960 Not somebody who

01:12 - 52.980 liked

01:12 - 54.450 being in the streets at all

01:12 - 56.260 that he was.

01:12 - 58.210 Closer to my age.

01:12 - 01.830 He was just not the person who would be involved in

01:13 - 03.040 anything

01:13 - 04.320 and

01:13 - 06.490 being young and.

01:13 - 08.470 A bit.

01:13 - 10.150 Followed.

01:13 - 15.340 I left my grandmother's home and i moved in with my uncle the same young uncle.

01:13 - 17.650 Who wasn't involved in anything.

01:13 - 22.240 And i remember i was at home one night and i heard this whimpering.

01:13 - 23.980 In the bathroom.

01:13 - 26.260 And

01:13 - 27.060 i'd be

01:13 - 28.360 transparent.

01:13 - 31.510 What woman does he have in the house.

01:13 - 33.040 This is what i'm thinking

01:13 - 36.640 and i go to the bathroom and he's sitting on the floor

01:13 - 38.640 and it's because he was shot

01:13 - 41.350 in his back in a drive by shooting.

01:13 - 43.270 I.

01:13 - 46.330 Took him to the police station and.

01:13 - 51.580 The we're just not paying any attention to him or anything like that

01:13 - 54.120 and then eventually an ambulance took him to the

01:13 - 55.080 to the hospital

01:13 - 57.180 i don't think we ever found out who

01:13 - 58.320 committed

01:13 - 00.220 the crime.

01:14 - 02.130 Fast

01:14 - 04.300 that i migrate to the united states

01:14 - 06.764 and this idea of justice

01:14 - 07.740 this idea of

01:14 - 09.840 how do we get people

01:14 - 11.520 to stay connected

01:14 - 13.180 to each other.

01:14 - 16.890 I think it was just sitting there and i never really dove into it

01:14 - 18.780 i got involved in ity

01:14 - 20.580 because ID was allowing me to

01:14 - 22.290 hitter bills and stuff like that

01:14 - 25.800 but something just continue to be missing and i think eventually

01:14 - 29.040 that's when i started getting more into the conflict resolution

01:14 - 29.700 work

01:14 - 31.680 and i'm glad adopted Jones

01:14 - 34.780 i mentioned this idea of connection

01:14 - 37.110 because throughout the work

01:14 - 38.880 that i found myself doing

01:14 - 41.320 it always came back to that.

01:14 - 41.940 That

01:14 - 45.030 the only way the main way that folks

01:14 - 47.230 continue to find restoration

01:14 - 49.950 continued to find reformation continue to defined

01:14 - 51.780 the things that

01:14 - 53.610 have some meaning to them

01:14 - 54.990 issue connection

01:14 - 57.190 but consistent connection

01:14 - 58.710 and i would posit that

01:14 - 01.410 the reason why this his

01:15 - 04.050 relationships these relationships form

01:15 - 06.630 is because of the consistency of every other Thursday

01:15 - 07.410 right

01:15 - 08.640 if it was once a year

01:15 - 09.870 very different right

01:15 - 11.280 but consistency

01:15 - 12.450 and connection

01:15 - 14.560 it moves us to where.

01:15 - 15.360 We need

01:15 - 18.060 to be in it from all of the work that I've been

01:15 - 20.430 doing it this way so now answering your question

01:15 - 21.900 that the thought in a mall

01:15 - 23.050 directory.

01:15 - 25.080 So what do i do here

01:15 - 28.080 and the mayor's office of Muslim engagement here in the city of Philadelphia

01:15 - 30.790 that I've been here for two and a half years.

01:15 - 32.200 I.

01:15 - 35.050 Two.

01:15 - 38.340 Two months ago we finally got

01:15 - 40.810 three Muslim chaplains

01:15 - 42.450 to be employed

01:15 - 43.350 on state route

01:15 - 44.550 right so

01:15 - 45.880 on.

01:15 - 49.050 I need to name this right when you look at the population

01:15 - 51.210 i'd see it rude when you look at the population

01:15 - 53.970 of July of the July June justice services center

01:15 - 55.770 at fortieth and have fun now

01:15 - 58.860 i know London center city but fortieth and hopefully now

01:15 - 00.010 right.

01:16 - 02.770 The majority of them.

01:16 - 04.030 Identify.

01:16 - 08.080 From what we understand as Muslim.

01:16 - 09.340 Right.

01:16 - 11.400 Two months ago

01:16 - 14.850 when i visit my three ovens the road this is where the

01:16 - 16.650 the juveniles who are

01:16 - 19.710 being tried as adults for the most serious crimes

01:16 - 23.230 out of the eleven of them who were in mod three.

01:16 - 24.870 Eleven of them

01:16 - 26.320 identified

01:16 - 28.090 as Muslim.

01:16 - 32.010 Why am i sharing this

01:16 - 33.130 publicly

01:16 - 33.780 because

01:16 - 36.580 i find i find myself

01:16 - 38.920 in the work that i'm doing.

01:16 - 40.450 In the middle.

01:16 - 43.200 Of this work i like my work kind of

01:16 - 44.100 my work is not

01:16 - 45.360 divorced from

01:16 - 47.140 how do we engage

01:16 - 49.060 in making sure that.

01:16 - 50.880 Our families our youth

01:16 - 54.460 when they return that they returning to communities

01:16 - 55.650 that care for them

01:16 - 57.180 and love on them

01:16 - 59.260 as we often see.

01:16 - 00.150 I think somewhere in

01:17 - 04.110 twenty twenty i was the cool convener of

01:17 - 07.080 the muslims for criminal justice reform

01:17 - 07.980 right on

01:17 - 09.840 the idea behind this was that

01:17 - 13.590 we needed to use the principles of the faith and a tradition

01:17 - 14.370 to

01:17 - 20.200 help folks reintegrate themselves into society right into the communities.

01:17 - 24.450 In my role here in the city of Philadelphia

01:17 - 27.010 right now we're also working on.

01:17 - 29.010 Getting an islamic studies instructor

01:17 - 32.190 for the juvenile justice services center alright

01:17 - 34.770 because we do believe and we do know

01:17 - 35.400 that

01:17 - 37.240 traditional faith.

01:17 - 39.940 Is something that moves right

01:17 - 43.660 but i want to go back to some of that dr moreland said earlier on.

01:17 - 45.310 That really resonated.

01:17 - 47.380 It is not a theology

01:17 - 49.890 or otherwise a faith practitioner

01:17 - 51.960 we love to believe as a theology

01:17 - 54.130 that most people write.

01:17 - 58.690 Let me hope i don't get stripped of my credentials up.

01:17 - 02.020 The theology is important right.

01:18 - 03.720 But anyone who is looking

01:18 - 05.700 who i might be reporting to write

01:18 - 07.540 the theology is important

01:18 - 09.820 but it is not the theology

01:18 - 11.140 alone

01:18 - 13.860 that really gets people to where we need them to be.

01:18 - 15.000 Right

01:18 - 16.990 it is the community

01:18 - 18.870 engaging in the proper

01:18 - 20.640 practice of that theology

01:18 - 22.560 that connects them that grounds then

01:18 - 23.820 it is the

01:18 - 28.950 the way we act upon that theology that practice that we see we believe in

01:18 - 30.300 that people connect with

01:18 - 33.940 i can stand up and give assuming all day long.

01:18 - 36.570 That will not move anyone necessarily

01:18 - 37.870 the change.

01:18 - 38.430 Right

01:18 - 39.810 it is when i

01:18 - 41.890 am going to change that.

01:18 - 44.470 I was given a someone one day

01:18 - 48.730 and ended much that i i operate on mustard cobalt in west Philadelphia.

01:18 - 52.890 And there was this brother who i met we used to do this thinking about this.

01:18 - 54.670 This

01:18 - 56.280 praying to pop thing that we did

01:18 - 57.390 for many years

01:18 - 59.973 and there was this young brother talked it up

01:18 - 02.400 and everything like that he had returned home

01:19 - 04.420 and he had a key spending

01:19 - 06.310 and he came

01:19 - 07.890 introduce them to the community

01:19 - 10.810 and just connected with him he was a young guy.

01:19 - 13.330 I remember one guy was giving a sermon

01:19 - 14.530 and.

01:19 - 17.160 I thought of him while i was given the similar because

01:19 - 18.570 he was someone who

01:19 - 19.930 he came

01:19 - 21.550 and he stayed.

01:19 - 23.580 He came

01:19 - 25.330 and he stayed

01:19 - 27.840 and i remember performing his marriage ceremony

01:19 - 29.310 to young Lydia who we

01:19 - 30.360 eventually

01:19 - 32.140 got married to.

01:19 - 38.135 I don't remember.

01:19 - 44.110 Maybe months after i got the job in the city.

01:19 - 47.140 I was walking through.

01:19 - 49.380 The courtyard

01:19 - 51.790 by city hall they're going to the office

01:19 - 53.980 and i saw this guy.

01:19 - 58.690 And for a moment i didn't recognize him.

01:20 - 01.420 And then.

01:20 - 04.240 I saw who he was

01:20 - 06.270 and let's call him James for

01:20 - 09.760 the sake of this ride and i James.

01:20 - 11.560 How you doing.

01:20 - 12.750 And he's like

01:20 - 14.730 guys i'm just alright i'm cool

01:20 - 16.923 like know how you doing

01:20 - 19.920 and i said how is your mom doing it's like well i'm not there anymore

01:20 - 21.720 i'm just living out here no

01:20 - 24.310 women are living out here.

01:20 - 26.800 He's like yeah i'm just.

01:20 - 27.780 Out here

01:20 - 29.350 now.

01:20 - 33.880 I said okay so what can i do how can i support you what can i.

01:20 - 35.340 Do tell me anything you need.

01:20 - 38.170 It's like i just want a cup of coffee.

01:20 - 46.870 And i asked myself.

01:20 - 50.920 Where did we feel.

01:20 - 53.380 In creating a system.

01:20 - 56.350 That he could stay connected to.

01:20 - 58.860 Like what was it

01:20 - 01.270 and i know it's not on us.

01:21 - 02.670 What is a question that

01:21 - 04.540 as faith leaders

01:21 - 06.120 we have to ask like

01:21 - 09.480 what is it that we didn't do enough

01:21 - 10.600 of

01:21 - 13.050 to create a community where someone

01:21 - 15.225 no matter what their navigating

01:21 - 17.580 they can still find a point of connection

01:21 - 19.770 on a point of restoration

01:21 - 21.730 in that space

01:21 - 22.500 and

01:21 - 24.330 for me when you ask me

01:21 - 24.930 does this

01:21 - 28.000 where do i see my work going.

01:21 - 28.830 Is

01:21 - 31.390 in all of the different spaces

01:21 - 32.850 that i find myself

01:21 - 36.280 what does it mean to create a community

01:21 - 36.960 that s.

01:21 - 41.638 No matter what steered condition or speeds they find themselves in

01:21 - 43.858 can find a space to connect

01:21 - 45.668 in that community

01:21 - 48.608 because i think that is the only way that we can really

01:21 - 49.858 truly give

01:21 - 52.168 a full way of restoration and

01:21 - 54.328 reconnection the things that matter

01:21 - 55.836 the most.

01:21 - 57.238 Thank you

01:21 - 58.228 and

01:21 - 07.438 i feel like that needs a round of applause i'm sorry yeah for a few things there that

01:22 - 11.248 i want to know thank you for sharing your story your family story

01:22 - 13.048 and the one that

01:22 - 15.308 so many people are impacted.

01:22 - 20.908 By the joy justice system in so many ways and we don't share those stories

01:22 - 23.458 we don't talk about that moment that

01:22 - 24.058 and

01:22 - 27.111 one of you shared it earlier that constellation of moments

01:22 - 29.608 of those interactive points with the justice system

01:22 - 32.326 and it's sometimes for some people a shame

01:22 - 34.798 sometimes it's fear sometimes it's trying to

01:22 - 36.628 push it out of your memory

01:22 - 40.138 but so many of us are impacted by it

01:22 - 45.388 and we need to share those conversations so we can engage in no larger community

01:22 - 48.448 about how to solve problems as that community

01:22 - 52.468 so i wanted to acknowledge and thank you all for sharing those stories

01:22 - 56.728 to air out those things and to shine the light on those

01:22 - 59.814 and to be brave in sharing those pieces so we can

01:22 - 02.638 move forward and other people can share those as well

01:23 - 06.788 so i appreciate that from you and so powerful

01:23 - 09.898 and you know as you all share those stories

01:23 - 13.558 we we dive into it and professor moreland you shared this earlier

01:23 - 17.638 we do know that there is a lot of research out there that shows

01:23 - 22.528 that people that find faith within incarcerated settings and have

01:23 - 24.868 faith communities that come home to

01:23 - 30.038 it is a mixed bag of survival with those faith communities

01:23 - 32.518 sometimes it is a higher rate

01:23 - 37.678 of the ability to to be in a traumatic setting of incarcerate ration

01:23 - 39.058 and come home

01:23 - 42.538 and stay home because of those faith communities

01:23 - 45.058 and some of the data also shows

01:23 - 47.098 that that is not true

01:23 - 50.308 and the when you dig into the research

01:23 - 56.548 what you find out is where those touchpoints and so it is quite brilliant that all

01:23 - 01.528 three of you or really analyzing the work that you're doing within your communities

01:24 - 04.378 within your systems to analyze that

01:24 - 06.298 to say how are we building this

01:24 - 11.618 what are the relationships how are we building belonging and what more can we do

01:24 - 12.208 because

01:24 - 12.958 even the

01:24 - 15.388 even all the research tells us

01:24 - 17.938 it is a hard mixture to do

01:24 - 20.838 so thank you for that brilliance that honesty

01:24 - 23.368 and that work that you're putting into it

01:24 - 26.068 and also that you are not alone

01:24 - 31.108 that there is community here and out there that can build upon it

01:24 - 36.058 and this is quite honestly this is the whole of the community if you're within a

01:24 - 38.780 faith community or outside of faith community i think it

01:24 - 42.518 is the role of the larger community to support one another

01:24 - 47.398 one of the things that i feel is so important about the history here at eastern state

01:24 - 51.028 and the celebration of this re-clean series is

01:24 - 54.958 this is not a new idea you know we talk about

01:24 - 59.278 the trauma of the past but there was also strong commit entity of the past the reason

01:24 - 01.658 we have a synagogue here is the power

01:25 - 04.795 of the families in the Jewish community in this community

01:25 - 10.268 that you know eight nineteen twenty two there was

01:25 - 13.018 a synagogue here on site that is

01:25 - 16.558 mind blowing in america absolutely mind blowing

01:25 - 19.288 but do you know know that they also

01:25 - 19.798 bought

01:25 - 21.538 the family and the community

01:25 - 24.178 and community volunteers like John Paul

01:25 - 27.008 they also bought homes

01:25 - 31.628 and they helped community members within the larger community

01:25 - 34.288 groups of people both incarcerated people

01:25 - 37.438 and Jewish community members within the community

01:25 - 41.998 park art of jcrc our local Jewish federation community

01:25 - 45.348 they work together raising money from incarcerated

01:25 - 48.178 people here at eastern state and people at home

01:25 - 51.958 to take care of families within Philadelphia

01:25 - 55.168 and to give them housing when they came home

01:25 - 56.728 to get them jobs to

01:25 - 58.748 train them when they were here.

01:25 - 03.148 This is something we do for each other we help each other we lift each other up

01:26 - 06.338 that was stuff they were doing in the nineteen twenties

01:26 - 08.348 and the nineteen tens

01:26 - 10.333 and so how do we build on that how do we

01:26 - 13.108 learn from that and how do we continue to grow

01:26 - 15.778 so i'm going to toss it back to each one of you

01:26 - 17.578 to kind of pull through this

01:26 - 21.898 how do you you see so mr webb as you as your work continues

01:26 - 25.198 you're also working not just at coming home

01:26 - 28.088 but also to stop

01:26 - 30.208 people going to with the

01:26 - 31.318 ending the prison

01:26 - 33.988 school to prison pipeline so could you talk a little bit about

01:26 - 36.418 toggling that back and forth in

01:26 - 38.578 the work that you do to ensure that

01:26 - 42.608 our youngest aren't going to prison in the first place.

01:26 - 44.168 Absolutely.

01:26 - 48.068 I'm full of stories that's another.

01:26 - 50.408 Side effect of getting older.

01:26 - 53.138 So.

01:26 - 54.028 Again

01:26 - 56.278 most of my life has been in new York city

01:26 - 59.468 and for a number of those years i lived in the Bronx

01:26 - 01.628 and i was working for fsc

01:27 - 04.028 doing policing work

01:27 - 08.338 and in new York during that time there was a practice known as stop and frisk does it

01:27 - 09.598 have context for your.

01:27 - 11.258 Income

01:27 - 12.608 and.

01:27 - 14.912 You know when the idea was brought to me in my

01:27 - 18.878 office you know we need a fsc to step into this site.

01:27 - 22.888 Forty something years old i don't know what it means to be stopped the rest

01:27 - 25.808 they don't bother me i'm not a threat to anybody

01:27 - 27.938 but i have three sons

01:27 - 31.389 and so before i decided that i would bring a

01:27 - 34.018 fsc and it's resources to this work in new York

01:27 - 36.838 said i need to talk to people who know what this is

01:27 - 37.988 right.

01:27 - 40.859 And so one evening i got home and my middle son

01:27 - 43.108 who i think was fifteen or sixteen at the time.

01:27 - 44.818 I said to him

01:27 - 48.338 by accident have you ever been stopped by the police

01:27 - 49.468 and he said

01:27 - 51.638 yeah all the time.

01:27 - 55.178 And that landed heavily on me right

01:27 - 58.828 and so my follow up question was how does that make you feel

01:27 - 01.058 wow has it made you feel.

01:28 - 04.228 And his response landed twice as heavily

01:28 - 06.248 he said to me.

01:28 - 08.708 It's no big deal that's what they do.

01:28 - 12.764 And what that convinced me of is that we have now

01:28 - 15.718 created a generation of mostly young black men

01:28 - 18.338 who have devalued themselves

01:28 - 20.978 because of a system of policing

01:28 - 23.288 and cultural states that

01:28 - 24.148 have told them

01:28 - 25.588 for way too long

01:28 - 27.928 who they are what role they have in society

01:28 - 29.638 and how they need to be cont trolled

01:28 - 30.208 right

01:28 - 33.466 so that led me to understand there is this thing

01:28 - 36.328 called a school to prison pipeline where we are

01:28 - 37.658 actually

01:28 - 38.968 preparing young men.

01:28 - 41.978 Mostly young black men mostly.

01:28 - 43.138 For that journey

01:28 - 44.738 okay.

01:28 - 46.108 I dunno if this is

01:28 - 49.148 a true story but i read somewhere that.

01:28 - 51.158 Probably in the sixties

01:28 - 54.178 they would decide how many prison beds they needed

01:28 - 58.418 by the number of black boys that were born in a particular.

01:28 - 59.548 Year

01:28 - 00.388 is that true

01:29 - 04.148 okay i i prayed that it wasn't but yeah.

01:29 - 05.338 So

01:29 - 07.915 that's where i decided that at least part of my work

01:29 - 11.533 needed to be on what we call the front end of the system.

01:29 - 13.058 That feeder.

01:29 - 16.538 Cassville states in prisons and jails and the light

01:29 - 16.978 and

01:29 - 18.908 how do you do that.

01:29 - 24.028 You can talk to the young people stay out of trouble avoid spaces where you're going

01:29 - 28.688 to encounter the police but that puts the burden in the wrong spot in my opinion.

01:29 - 30.788 The real burden is ours.

01:29 - 35.618 And at fsc we have this initiative called think twice.

01:29 - 37.829 Which invites each and every one of us and

01:29 - 41.078 therefore i'm inviting each and every one of you.

01:29 - 43.258 Before you dial nine one one

01:29 - 45.338 think of it's consequences.

01:29 - 52.148 What is the value of bringing a armed law enforcement officer.

01:29 - 54.098 Into that space.

01:29 - 57.008 Who are you putting in harm's way.

01:29 - 59.618 What role do you want them to serve

01:30 - 02.832 and if we pause before we got those three digits

01:30 - 05.668 something we've all been taught since childhood right

01:30 - 09.788 that that's how you respond to conflict you dial nine one one.

01:30 - 13.718 What happens if we thought of another way of dealing with that conflict.

01:30 - 15.538 How much less

01:30 - 18.458 with the school to prison pipeline be a reality.

01:30 - 21.853 So that's step one right to really decrease the

01:30 - 24.868 likelihood that certain populations are going to continue

01:30 - 28.078 to be targeted by the we the entry into this

01:30 - 29.678 into the system.

01:30 - 31.928 I will not.

01:30 - 36.458 Leave this conversation without talking about what we call re-entry though.

01:30 - 38.908 And i say we call because

01:30 - 43.018 when i'm talking to funders when i'm talking to colleagues i use that term because

01:30 - 47.578 that means something to people but for me it's nothing about me entry because

01:30 - 50.258 somebody the people that are returning from prison.

01:30 - 53.138 Were never really part of society in the beginning.

01:30 - 56.128 They had been ostracized long before they ended up in a prison

01:30 - 57.658 and so

01:30 - 59.248 i talk about

01:30 - 00.968 how do we.

01:31 - 04.448 Enter into right relationship with those who are returning.

01:31 - 07.268 And where does that burden lie.

01:31 - 08.348 Right.

01:31 - 14.338 Some people say well it's the responsibility of the person coming home to prepare for

01:31 - 16.408 history to his or her return

01:31 - 18.038 while incarcerated.

01:31 - 22.658 Others say the responsibility of reentry actually begins.

01:31 - 24.878 At the point of sentencing.

01:31 - 30.128 I believe that reentry begins before the person is even arrested.

01:31 - 32.438 And that begins

01:31 - 33.688 with my

01:31 - 34.988 commitment

01:31 - 37.018 to welcoming every and everyone

01:31 - 37.888 anyone

01:31 - 39.698 into my space.

01:31 - 43.660 If they are taken away because of whatever

01:31 - 47.260 i'm already prepared to be there when they get out

01:31 - 51.450 and that has nothing to do with how you know if it's a correctional system or

01:31 - 52.650 a punitive system

01:31 - 54.390 it's about where do i

01:31 - 56.440 land in all of this.

01:31 - 59.280 Am i willing to have Thanksgiving dinner with jazz and

01:31 - 00.550 Larry.

01:32 - 04.720 Am i willing to open up my.

01:32 - 06.520 House of worship

01:32 - 08.350 to every and anyone.

01:32 - 10.960 Do i need to.

01:32 - 15.700 Do i need them to rely on the state to meet their needs.

01:32 - 18.600 A state that has punished them

01:32 - 20.170 has.

01:32 - 21.760 Been.

01:32 - 23.310 Harmful to them

01:32 - 25.120 most of their lives

01:32 - 29.890 and the answer is if we want success in that re entry right relationship.

01:32 - 32.680 We can't rely on institutions.

01:32 - 36.100 We really have to rely on.

01:32 - 42.100 When i wake up today am i as equally prepared to welcome Larry as i am.

01:32 - 44.200 My best friend down the street.

01:32 - 48.720 And if the answer is no then no matter what the person incarcerated does

01:32 - 50.640 on his or her reentry guarantee

01:32 - 52.300 it won't be successful.

01:32 - 53.890 Because

01:32 - 55.328 there's nothing.

01:32 - 57.790 Welcoming to come back to

01:32 - 58.890 and so

01:32 - 01.650 when i get to have these conversations

01:33 - 03.810 i very often start with

01:33 - 06.160 my colleagues at work.

01:33 - 09.000 My friends doing whatever we do

01:33 - 10.470 and i'm going

01:33 - 11.384 including

01:33 - 12.000 just going to

01:33 - 14.010 borrow this because when i read that you

01:33 - 16.390 do your work around basketball

01:33 - 18.750 and i realize where i am

01:33 - 21.030 and how successful the Knicks are

01:33 - 22.600 i'm sorry.

01:33 - 26.160 Yeah sorry about that.

01:33 - 29.290 Dangerous ground.

01:33 - 32.897 Back to the topic at hand.

01:33 - 34.770 If.

01:33 - 37.000 You're on something.

01:33 - 39.360 I welcome all your seventy sixers fan

01:33 - 41.490 reentry into the reality of.

01:33 - 43.903 Basketball right.

01:33 - 49.348 Yeah it took a minute or two but

01:33 - 50.650 yeah

01:33 - 53.530 we don't think beyond the immediate right

01:33 - 55.650 but really if we're going to

01:33 - 59.100 have a deep honest conversation about

01:33 - 02.830 what happens when people are returning from incarceration.

01:34 - 05.920 The answer in my opinion is.

01:34 - 07.660 Am i ready.

01:34 - 09.730 Are we ready.

01:34 - 14.050 I know the system did not make them ready.

01:34 - 17.160 And so the burden is mine.

01:34 - 19.330 The burden is ours.

01:34 - 20.100 So

01:34 - 22.150 call the police less.

01:34 - 24.670 Decrease the pathway to prison.

01:34 - 28.170 Decrease the pathway back to prison by

01:34 - 30.480 working on my own ability to

01:34 - 32.590 welcome the stranger.

01:34 - 36.180 Thank you thank you so much for giving it

01:34 - 40.990 and gaffer

01:34 - 43.146 i love how you bring it back to it is our

01:34 - 45.682 responsibility and we started this conversation with

01:34 - 48.660 rights and responsibilities and it is those

01:34 - 49.530 pastor

01:34 - 51.390 thinking about that

01:34 - 53.790 the next two hundred and fifty years rs

01:34 - 57.460 how do you see the work of reentry

01:34 - 59.151 and the goals of where

01:34 - 01.950 you want to see our country moving forward

01:35 - 05.610 where do you see this work moving forward so

01:35 - 08.590 you were doing well too much of the sixers.

01:35 - 10.120 Really.

01:35 - 12.310 Cut that out.

01:35 - 15.070 Start by quoting or something like that.

01:35 - 16.920 So

01:35 - 19.039 you know something he mentioned kind of trigger

01:35 - 22.680 something to me when i was a seminary professor and

01:35 - 23.170 i

01:35 - 28.140 took a group of students up to it it was an intensive funerals intensive

01:35 - 30.750 classes so we only had a couple of days to

01:35 - 32.561 to work with the students

01:35 - 33.120 and

01:35 - 34.750 took them to

01:35 - 36.970 have a filler if your public school

01:35 - 37.339 and

01:35 - 40.179 the next day we went to turn off your prisons

01:35 - 42.000 and after both visits

01:35 - 46.210 at a korean student in the class and he comes home and he says i feel tears

01:35 - 47.070 and i

01:35 - 50.490 dunno what he meant by that another student says he says he feels like crying

01:35 - 51.120 i'm like

01:35 - 52.710 why why do you feel like crying

01:35 - 55.510 he says what are you what are you Americans

01:35 - 57.090 training your kids for.

01:35 - 58.500 That so what do you mean

01:35 - 00.583 and and i'm thinking you already got me because

01:36 - 02.460 i think he got what i was trying to show him

01:36 - 03.630 and

01:36 - 05.760 he says well we go in the school

01:36 - 06.270 and

01:36 - 09.540 the kids are wearing light blue tops and dark blue bottoms and.

01:36 - 15.100 We go on the cafeteria and they have these trays and you peel the top of the trip.

01:36 - 17.190 There's bars on the windows

01:36 - 17.760 there's

01:36 - 20.650 there's one teacher for about thirty kids

01:36 - 23.010 and then we go to jail and guess what.

01:36 - 26.070 The inmates are walking around and light blue tops and.

01:36 - 28.200 Dark blue bottoms and

01:36 - 30.930 when they eat the peel this tray

01:36 - 31.860 and

01:36 - 34.920 there's bars everywhere and there's one officer for

01:36 - 36.210 sixty inmates

01:36 - 41.220 what are we preparing these kids for and he was exactly right and that's what i

01:36 - 43.423 wanted them to see that there was a problem

01:36 - 47.080 that we have to work at we have to admit exist

01:36 - 48.390 and we have to

01:36 - 49.980 make sure we do something about it.

01:36 - 52.270 So that's the one thing the other thing is i

01:36 - 55.360 wanted to come back to something that you said.

01:36 - 57.330 About it not being about

01:36 - 58.540 religion

01:36 - 59.980 and

01:37 - 00.660 you know i'm a

01:37 - 01.770 baptist preacher

01:37 - 02.970 you know so

01:37 - 05.453 and he's right on state road the last time you were there

01:37 - 08.560 there were eleven there's five thousand up right now.

01:37 - 11.280 But there was a time when there was about thirty

01:37 - 12.060 and

01:37 - 13.650 just about all of them

01:37 - 14.850 were muslims

01:37 - 16.740 how does a baptist preacher

01:37 - 18.300 connect to all of these

01:37 - 19.420 muslims.

01:37 - 22.957 I can't connect over theology because our theology is

01:37 - 26.590 not the same but he's right we connect over consistency

01:37 - 28.840 and even more than consistency

01:37 - 31.450 over love with consistency.

01:37 - 33.430 So.

01:37 - 36.380 We do we do a lot of that kind of work what do we want

01:37 - 39.250 to do going forward we want to keep collaborating.

01:37 - 41.776 People often ask me or what are you it's

01:37 - 44.460 great what you guys are doing inside the jail

01:37 - 45.900 what are you doing to keep

01:37 - 47.250 people from getting there

01:37 - 49.470 and my standard answer is

01:37 - 50.850 no what are you doing

01:37 - 54.120 you know i'm doing what i can can do what i know that i'm

01:37 - 57.700 assigned by god to do what i'm gifted to do

01:37 - 03.010 but i also have to partner with other people who are doing the parts that i can't do.

01:38 - 05.160 Clues what you do and includes what you do

01:38 - 06.630 and what other people do

01:38 - 09.390 and i think if we continue to do that

01:38 - 12.090 then we're moving the ball forward

01:38 - 13.680 and doing a much better job

01:38 - 14.096 than

01:38 - 15.060 what we've been doing

01:38 - 17.670 sometimes everybody does it a little silo thing

01:38 - 20.490 and everybody everybody wants credit for what they do

01:38 - 22.950 but i think the more we work together

01:38 - 27.460 the stronger the coalition becomes and the more impact we can have.

01:38 - 29.460 I have a letter if i can

01:38 - 30.000 only

01:38 - 30.390 have.

01:38 - 32.670 It won't take long really won't take long at all

01:38 - 36.220 i got permission from one of the kids to.

01:38 - 38.460 Work with to share this with you

01:38 - 41.010 and not just with you he told me i

01:38 - 43.950 need to carry around and share with anybody i cant make contact with

01:38 - 44.790 but

01:38 - 47.410 this is a kid who's on state road

01:38 - 49.560 and he says they call me doc

01:38 - 50.430 on state road

01:38 - 52.917 all right so your dog i would like to i told

01:38 - 54.900 you was my sixtieth birthday back in April

01:38 - 56.730 he said i want to say happy birthday

01:38 - 59.940 i really wrote this letter to tell you how much you mean to me

01:39 - 01.710 and how much i appreciate you

01:39 - 04.800 my dad was in jail most of my life

01:39 - 07.410 and I've been in and out of jail since thirteen he's

01:39 - 09.160 right now he's seventeen.

01:39 - 12.330 So i really never had a role model well a good one

01:39 - 16.080 i just feel loved and cared about when i'm around you and the team

01:39 - 18.880 y'all show me it's bigger than the streets and

01:39 - 22.540 people care about black boys like me and my peers

01:39 - 25.380 and it's your birthday you get an old man i

01:39 - 26.010 hope

01:39 - 29.100 i hope everyone to have a dog and they live life because

01:39 - 31.170 you're remote role model i needed

01:39 - 34.024 you were like a real cool overhead.

01:39 - 38.380 To your swag your walk your talk

01:39 - 40.150 and you're not corny.

01:39 - 44.860 Even though we only knew each other for six months i can tell you.

01:39 - 46.410 You care about me

01:39 - 50.820 like you knew me my whole life i just wanted to tell you how much you meant to me

01:39 - 56.170 as a young black man i love your dog keep up the work and happy birthday old man.

01:39 - 59.190 That's really not just about me it's about the whole team.

01:39 - 01.800 Because he mentions that in here or that goes in

01:40 - 04.410 and we can make a difference

01:40 - 06.280 if we are consistent

01:40 - 09.480 and regardless of theology one of the things that that we

01:40 - 11.130 will always agree on

01:40 - 13.150 is loving one another

01:40 - 16.400 and so if we love one another enough to to to

01:40 - 17.650 be consistent

01:40 - 20.970 and then to to look at all the other different aspects of these

01:40 - 21.870 spoken about

01:40 - 26.610 we can push the can down the road much farther than where we've currently got it to

01:40 - 28.230 and i just i just enjoy

01:40 - 30.060 collaborating with anybody

01:40 - 32.230 that loves our kids that much.

01:40 - 33.300 Thank you

01:40 - 33.960 they're right

01:40 - 34.380 there

01:40 - 37.491 throughout tonight we heard it in Larry recommends opening

01:40 - 40.560 statements we've heard it throughout tonight over and over

01:40 - 43.198 these big values Larry started us off today

01:40 - 45.840 with this great line i wrote down right away

01:40 - 47.700 humanity is not earned

01:40 - 50.040 but it's assumed we need to start there

01:40 - 52.590 each one of you has pulled out

01:40 - 54.030 big ideas of

01:40 - 59.520 human dignity of love of belonging of connecting these are all values

01:40 - 01.440 that are so implicitly

01:41 - 03.240 needed in

01:41 - 07.255 our world in in healing in religion and what

01:41 - 10.980 pulls us and binds us together to do good

01:41 - 15.720 so i wanted to to end we'll go to questions after this but i want it to end with you

01:41 - 19.170 as you do this work as you move this forward

01:41 - 22.680 what is that guiding value that you hold on to

01:41 - 27.730 and really used to the the work of your community and the work of re-entry.

01:41 - 31.030 Thank you very much.

01:41 - 33.510 There's a

01:41 - 34.230 there's a

01:41 - 34.494 a

01:41 - 36.540 quote from the koran that says

01:41 - 40.360 and god has made the sons of item dignified

01:41 - 44.700 and when you mentioned that earlier on that was the thing

01:41 - 46.140 that came to mind right that

01:41 - 48.580 this idea of being dignified

01:41 - 49.350 is in it

01:41 - 50.760 we don't lose it

01:41 - 52.290 because of what we do

01:41 - 53.768 well.

01:41 - 55.118 Yes

01:41 - 56.188 we we've

01:41 - 59.398 made mistakes yes we've done something wrong yes

01:41 - 01.328 we've caused harm.

01:42 - 03.628 But that doesn't mean

01:42 - 07.028 that we are no longer a dignified creation.

01:42 - 09.358 Of the creator right

01:42 - 13.208 it means that there needs to be some restoration some accountability

01:42 - 16.618 and something else so that we need to live back into the standard

01:42 - 17.848 in which we were

01:42 - 19.438 we were created so

01:42 - 23.798 for me the guiding value that guy in principle is.

01:42 - 27.268 And when we think of the word justice.

01:42 - 28.558 From the

01:42 - 30.008 islamic.

01:42 - 32.518 Perspective

01:42 - 34.658 it means putting things

01:42 - 36.548 in their rightful place.

01:42 - 38.788 That is a guiding principle

01:42 - 39.658 for me

01:42 - 40.408 right

01:42 - 41.668 putting things

01:42 - 43.288 in their rightful place

01:42 - 44.098 and

01:42 - 45.778 at any point in time

01:42 - 46.918 we can ask

01:42 - 48.488 that question.

01:42 - 50.008 What does it mean

01:42 - 55.078 to put something in it's rightful place in this moment

01:42 - 56.408 right.

01:42 - 00.008 I often use a very simplistic example

01:43 - 01.238 of.

01:43 - 03.788 Many of us drive in Philly.

01:43 - 07.198 And how many of us have double parked

01:43 - 09.098 on the street before.

01:43 - 13.558 If i took this from a

01:43 - 17.378 a religious faith based perspective

01:43 - 19.508 that is a form of injustice.

01:43 - 21.928 Right i might see that

01:43 - 24.398 and i know i know i know.

01:43 - 24.928 I know

01:43 - 25.588 they

01:43 - 26.488 do it it's really

01:43 - 28.328 we need to double park.

01:43 - 31.628 Why say that.

01:43 - 33.538 Cause when i double park

01:43 - 36.098 am i impeding someone else.

01:43 - 39.908 Am i taking away someone else's ability

01:43 - 41.708 to do something

01:43 - 44.078 that they need to do

01:43 - 45.908 and if i am.

01:43 - 47.278 Am i doing it

01:43 - 49.348 because i have a right to do it

01:43 - 50.518 not at all.

01:43 - 53.768 So if we look at it from that purely

01:43 - 55.808 black and white perspective

01:43 - 57.568 even that is a form

01:43 - 00.788 of injustice rights are taking it back to myself.

01:44 - 03.028 What are the ways in which

01:44 - 06.458 i can be just in this moment.

01:44 - 09.128 Because everything is moment by moment

01:44 - 11.338 right and if i can be just in this moment

01:44 - 13.258 then hopefully the next moment

01:44 - 14.788 i can be just again

01:44 - 17.338 and then the next moment i can be just again so

01:44 - 21.268 keep asking myself that question because that is how

01:44 - 23.348 i get to ask

01:44 - 24.508 am i ready

01:44 - 26.170 for when.

01:44 - 28.138 Pookie

01:44 - 29.518 comes back home.

01:44 - 30.598 Right

01:44 - 32.728 am i ready for when i called to him

01:44 - 33.838 on the street

01:44 - 36.028 am i ready for when he turns to me and says

01:44 - 38.018 what do you have for me now.

01:44 - 40.598 And if i have nothing

01:44 - 42.538 what can i still give him

01:44 - 44.278 that holds up his dignity

01:44 - 46.108 and what does that look like so

01:44 - 47.758 for me it's always about

01:44 - 48.838 what is it

01:44 - 50.098 to be just

01:44 - 51.478 in this moment

01:44 - 54.848 in a very intentional unreal way

01:44 - 57.548 and as i end this is my third identity

01:44 - 59.558 in this space right.

01:45 - 01.868 Because.

01:45 - 04.418 Why do what i do.

01:45 - 07.978 In a former identity that i had before i took up this role

01:45 - 09.458 with the city.

01:45 - 12.538 I would be right in the room as reporters come in

01:45 - 15.238 and a room where we met and even in this room here

01:45 - 17.828 working with some of.

01:45 - 19.078 The skill tree kids

01:45 - 20.588 folks

01:45 - 21.958 and communication

01:45 - 23.488 and conflict work

01:45 - 24.178 right

01:45 - 27.538 and then that was my first identity coming into this space and then

01:45 - 29.428 the second time i was in this space

01:45 - 31.508 was when there was a graduation

01:45 - 32.128 for

01:45 - 34.178 i think this was rebuild.

01:45 - 35.428 Philadelphia right

01:45 - 37.138 and then there's a third identity i

01:45 - 37.978 am holding

01:45 - 38.848 in dispute

01:45 - 39.298 year

01:45 - 39.748 in

01:45 - 41.528 an eastern state.

01:45 - 43.198 This is

01:45 - 44.308 to me

01:45 - 46.078 the word that you're doing here

01:45 - 47.998 and the consistency around it

01:45 - 49.528 is also how

01:45 - 52.558 we keep this moving forward bringing us together

01:45 - 54.548 to have these conversations

01:45 - 55.708 in meaningful ways

01:45 - 58.048 is how we do this so what does it mean to be just

01:45 - 00.658 and continuing to work with folks

01:46 - 02.008 who bring us together

01:46 - 03.478 one we need to be brought together

01:46 - 05.398 is what i'm hoping for more info

01:46 - 05.818 thank you

01:46 - 07.658 thank you.

01:46 - 08.158 He was

01:46 - 10.378 we have a preservation trade center

01:46 - 11.818 where we

01:46 - 15.775 partner with rebuild and the city of Philadelphia to

01:46 - 19.678 teach preservation trades and we do it on site our team

01:46 - 21.658 has a workforce development wing

01:46 - 25.408 and so what we talk about all the time and what we partner in is

01:46 - 28.288 how do we utilize this site

01:46 - 30.358 a site of trauma i say to pain

01:46 - 34.828 to work with people across the city and across the state

01:46 - 40.798 to rebuild and teach skills for not just any job but for a career

01:46 - 42.658 to build up themselves vhs

01:46 - 45.448 to build up their community and to build up their lives

01:46 - 50.278 and to go out and rebuild this city rebuild this state

01:46 - 51.808 and to do good

01:46 - 56.368 and so our intersection has crossed over in so many different ways

01:46 - 58.888 and to find justice is

01:46 - 02.518 so much of what you said tonight is to keep moving forward

01:47 - 06.118 and keep intersecting with ways to lift each other up

01:47 - 07.418 but.

01:47 - 09.088 Lewis to your point

01:47 - 11.428 is and to your point reverend

01:47 - 12.688 keep showing up

01:47 - 16.978 and realize where you are in the journey and which direction you need to go

01:47 - 20.968 thank you all three so much for this wonderful conversation

01:47 - 22.701 let's turn it to the audience

01:47 - 25.978 does anybody have any questions before we wrap

01:47 - 30.118 but i'd love to hear if there's any questions Campbell is ready with the mic

01:47 - 31.048 right there

01:47 - 32.528 white blazer.

01:47 - 45.598 You mentioned earlier about not

01:47 - 49.028 about thinking twice before calling nine one one.

01:47 - 50.698 I think that

01:47 - 53.458 we are focusing a lot our form

01:47 - 55.558 and on

01:47 - 56.768 restoration

01:47 - 00.068 and there is an element of justice where.

01:48 - 03.658 When the harm is potentially going to be caused i

01:48 - 06.758 as a black woman agree that it's not always.

01:48 - 10.768 Preferable to comment on one bit sometimes we do need more force

01:48 - 13.358 so i'm wondering if you have experience.

01:48 - 16.198 Or if there's any research that you know of

01:48 - 20.938 for calling ninety eight instead or a behavioral response team or

01:48 - 22.078 any other

01:48 - 27.338 crisis intervention that can be redirected to because nature abhors a vacuum.

01:48 - 31.648 Great question and i appreciate the question and i get it right

01:48 - 35.248 i have been in spaces where nine one one kind of makes sense

01:48 - 37.678 right and i understand that.

01:48 - 40.568 I think nine eight eight.

01:48 - 44.248 Yeah it's a mixed bag right

01:48 - 46.203 it depends on who's receiving the call at

01:48 - 48.358 nine eight eight what instructions they have

01:48 - 51.718 it offer very often nine eight eight gets transferred to nine one one

01:48 - 55.718 without a lot of consideration as to what that really means.

01:48 - 59.788 I think one of the things that i have seen some real good success in

01:49 - 00.958 is

01:49 - 03.908 what we call crisis response teams

01:49 - 05.398 that are

01:49 - 09.818 an alternative when there's a mental health crisis involved right.

01:49 - 10.958 Often.

01:49 - 12.628 Law enforcement is

01:49 - 14.218 terribly ill equipped

01:49 - 16.058 for that space

01:49 - 18.268 and they resort to what they know right.

01:49 - 21.238 Which often leads to harm for everyone involved

01:49 - 24.478 and so i think that's a starting point

01:49 - 27.838 i know in Chicago they just recently decided to

01:49 - 30.848 make their crisis response team citywide

01:49 - 33.808 and i keep bringing up new York because that's

01:49 - 35.648 still consider it home.

01:49 - 39.058 The new mayor of new York decided that he would

01:49 - 43.118 decrease the police response to mental health crisis.

01:49 - 44.008 Calls

01:49 - 46.528 and so i think you start where you can write

01:49 - 47.998 you start where you're comfortable

01:49 - 51.238 you start where you can galvanize people around something

01:49 - 52.528 and so

01:49 - 53.218 yeah

01:49 - 56.228 nine one one will continue to exist.

01:49 - 57.578 Just.

01:49 - 00.698 Can i call someone else.

01:50 - 04.118 Do i have the capacity to deal with this

01:50 - 06.088 and if the answer is no then yeah i get it

01:50 - 07.108 but

01:50 - 10.558 i don't often think that we even think about that before we thought it was three

01:50 - 15.068 digits until that's just what i'm asking us to think about if in fact.

01:50 - 16.708 We can take that moment

01:50 - 17.668 to say

01:50 - 19.778 is there a better alternative.

01:50 - 21.368 Because

01:50 - 22.798 that nine one one

01:50 - 23.728 leads to

01:50 - 24.928 filling up

01:50 - 26.918 places like this.

01:50 - 28.828 Thank you.

01:50 - 31.358 Any other questions there.

01:50 - 34.528 Well if wonderful this has been an amazing evening thank

01:50 - 37.078 you all so much thank you professor moreland and earlier

01:50 - 41.068 everybody thank you so much for coming tonight have a wonderful evening

01:50 - 44.908 and there is a final reception so please join us as well thank you

01:50 - 46.538 big round of applause.

01:50 - 54.428 I didn't say go next did i.

01:50 - 57.848 It up.

01:51 - 34.388 The following program was financed by a Grant from america to fifty pa.