00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by customers

00:04 - bank.

00:14 - We're joined today by Kristen

00:15 - Tullio, Pennsylvania state director for Humane World for animals.

00:18 - Late last month, 1500 beagles were rescued from a facility

00:22 - that bred the dogs for research.

00:23 - What was it about this national story that brought attention to animal testing?

00:27 - Yeah.

00:28 - So the organization was involved with the in Vigo beagles

00:33 - that were rescued from a research breeding facility in Virginia in 2022.

00:38 - And this was really impactful.

00:41 - We had about 30 days to place 4000 beagles across the nation,

00:46 - and Pennsylvania took in around 200 with through our shelter partner program,

00:52 - and they found loving homes for all 200.

00:56 - And that really became the phase

01:00 - for why we needed to pass the Beagle bill.

01:04 - And that is why their story is the why we were able to get that

01:09 - through the Pennsylvania Senate unanimously, 50 to 0.

01:13 - What is it about beagles that make them the most commonly used dogs for research?

01:17 - You know, beagles are so gentle and they are so patient.

01:20 - And when we would see them

01:22 - walking around the Capitol, that's exactly what you would see.

01:25 - They were the most love lobbyist in Harrisburg.

01:29 - And that, Bill is very focused on

01:33 - making sure that we have transparency in animal testing.

01:37 - It focuses the bill, focuses on adoption opportunities.

01:42 - This would also make Pennsylvania the 13th state to ban

01:46 - the, animal testing for cosmetics.

01:50 - And it would also limit dog sales

01:52 - from bad actors like we saw with the Vigo breeder.

01:56 - Research breeding facility and all of those, that Bill did pass

02:01 - through the Senate, as we said unanimously and is awaiting action

02:04 - in the House of Representatives.

02:06 - So we have a package what's referred to as vehicle bills,

02:08 - but they don't refer only to beagles. Correct? Correct.

02:10 - So this would be for dogs and cats that are used in research.

02:15 - And this is a really great time

02:18 - for Pennsylvania to become a partner in that mission.

02:22 - You know, right now there, you're seeing a lot of momentum on a federal level

02:27 - through agencies that have committed to phasing out the use of animals

02:32 - and prioritizing non-animal alternatives.

02:36 - I'd like to talk through some of the specifics of the bills.

02:38 - The first one, House Bill 296, requires those who breed animals for research

02:43 - to offer those animals up for adoption once they're no longer needed.

02:46 - What currently happens to animals when they're no longer used in research?

02:49 - Yeah.

02:49 - So animal testing in Pennsylvania, there are about 2200 dogs

02:54 - and 1100 cats that are used each year

02:57 - across 13 institutions in our state.

03:01 - That could be anything for,

03:04 - you know, medical devices to chemical and pesticide testing.

03:08 - It's really a range.

03:10 - And the animals are often times, at the end of an experiment,

03:14 - not able to be adopted out where we are encouraging the animals

03:19 - that could be adopted out

03:21 - would have that opportunity to then be placed in a loving home.

03:25 - The next bill, House Bill 295, revokes the kennel licenses prohibiting

03:29 - the sale from facilities previously cited for animal cruelty violations.

03:33 - Does this refer back to the situation at Ridgeland in Wisconsin?

03:36 - Yeah, that is exactly right.

03:38 - So when there are Animal Welfare Act violations, in fact, the bill,

03:42 - the and Vigo Research Breeding facility that ended up being the largest

03:46 - fines paid out in US history for animal welfare.

03:50 - It was $35 million was paid out to for that that case specifically.

03:56 - And so this bill would limit the sale of dogs

04:01 - for the purpose, for that purpose, when they have been bad actors.

04:05 - Now, I do want to be really clear here,

04:08 - because the beagles that were in, in Vigo's facility,

04:13 - they were ultimately destined for a life of, pain, suffering

04:17 - and isolation to be used as test subjects once they left that breeding facility.

04:22 - So, you know, this is, again, an opportunity

04:26 - for our state to become a partner in the mission, to align

04:29 - with moving in that direction of modernizing our science.

04:34 - This will keep us very competitive in this space.

04:37 - When we start looking at all of the alternatives that are available,

04:42 - from data modeling to the use of AI, and that is

04:46 - what is going to keep Pennsylvania competitive in that that space.

04:50 - And we also know that about 90% of these trials

04:57 - in animals, these test the testing on animals fail in human trials.

05:01 - So not only is this going to be a more humane way,

05:05 - of doing research, but it's also going to be more effective.

05:09 - House Bill 294 extends protections under the animal cruelty law

05:13 - for animals bred for research.

05:14 - How would this change how animals are utilized in a research facility?

05:18 - Yeah.

05:18 - So this is really focused on the back end of the research breeding facility.

05:23 - And making sure that they have basic

05:27 - standards of care in place, you know, that would align back

05:30 - very much to animal cruelty statute and making sure that they have

05:34 - food, water, housing, vet care.

05:38 - So all of that is very aligned with the current animal cruelty statute.

05:43 - Do you think all the national attention

05:45 - that's been focused most recently on bridge

05:46 - and will help to move these bills forward in Pennsylvania?

05:49 - We do this bill having a unanimous vote in the Senate.

05:53 - You know, we have come together and found a way to make common sense,

05:58 - compassionate policy, move forward in this way.

06:03 - No doubt.

06:03 - Can we get this bill through the House?

06:05 - It is the right thing to do.

06:07 - I'd like to shift our focus a little bit to another bill.

06:09 - This is referred to as Victoria's loss.

06:11 - This aims to stop the sale of dogs that were raised in puppy mills.

06:14 - Can you talk a little bit about what the bill does? And who is Victoria?

06:17 - Yes, yes.

06:18 - So Victoria really put a face to,

06:22 - the puppy mill issue in Pennsylvania.

06:25 - She was a German Shepherd that was bred at a Pennsylvania puppy mill

06:30 - where she produced an estimated 150 to 200 puppies at that puppy mill.

06:36 - The the biggest, situation that came with Victoria

06:40 - is that she had a genetic condition that, ended up making her paralyzed

06:45 - in her older years, which was a genetic condition

06:48 - that's ultimately and potentially passed down to her puppies,

06:52 - who were then sold online and through pet stores.

06:56 - And so this bill is moving the pet market in a humane direction

07:01 - by promoting shelters, rescue,

07:04 - adoption and responsible breeders, as well as, really protecting consumers

07:10 - from being misled into, supporting puppy mills.

07:14 - What kind of ill effects can someone expect from an animal

07:16 - that was raised at a puppy mill? Yeah.

07:18 - So this is where, you know, the predatory financing piece also comes in here

07:23 - because oftentimes if someone walks into a pet store,

07:27 - they're offered a financing option and they can get into a situation

07:33 - where not only are they now with a puppy who's very sick, but, so

07:37 - now they have vet care bills and they've already fallen in love with this pet.

07:41 - So, you know, they're not thinking, I'm going to return this pet for another one.

07:45 - They love that. And they they are part of their family.

07:48 - And so they on top of that will find out that they don't even have true ownership

07:52 - of that pet because they're financing that with these astronomical, fees that are,

07:59 - you know, through the pet stores that are offered through these pet stores.

08:03 - So, yeah.

08:04 - What can a consumer look for, to make sure that they're not buying

08:07 - a puppy mill puppy when they go into a pet store? Yeah.

08:10 - So this is where, you know, we have another really great opportunity

08:15 - with Victoria's law to protect animals, but also protect families.

08:21 - So, you know, we always say encourage you to go to an animal shelter

08:25 - because oftentimes, you know that you'll find the dog of your choice there.

08:30 - But if you are looking for, responsible breeder is going

08:33 - to want to know just as much about you as you want to know about them.

08:37 - You're going to get to meet the mom and the dad.

08:40 - So these are some of the takeaways for what to look for in a responsible breeder.

08:45 - Pennsylvania was once known as the puppy mill capital of the world,

08:48 - particularly the Lancaster region.

08:49 - What's it about Pennsylvania and that region in particular

08:53 - that that has attracted so many and savory breeders?

08:55 - Yeah.

08:56 - Well, I was thinking about this because our humane pet store bill,

09:00 - a lot of these puppies

09:01 - are coming from outside of Pennsylvania and being sold through the pet stores.

09:05 - And this is a very humane, pro-business bill

09:09 - because the pet store industry was about $150 billion.

09:15 - I mean, that's a conservative estimate right now,

09:18 - and only 2% of that is actually pet sales.

09:22 - And so pet stores aren't even making their money on, you know, on pet sales.

09:26 - They're making money on products and services.

09:29 - Think about things like grooming, dog training.

09:33 - And also a lot of these pet stores are now holding meet and greets

09:36 - and partnering with their local shelters and rescues.

09:40 - Pennsylvania had updated its dog law during the Rendell administration,

09:44 - particularly with their specific requirements of breeders.

09:46 - Does current law need to change or is it not being enforced properly?

09:50 - They just did a dog law modernization Act,

09:53 - recently that upgraded the dog law bill.

09:57 - And the next step in that process is passing the Humane Pet Store bill,

10:02 - which is going to be a significant step forward in protecting,

10:06 - you know, our pets and also our families and in the state.

10:11 - What kind of transparency requirements are our pet stores

10:15 - currently held onto when they're when they're selling animals? Yeah.

10:18 - And that was a big part of the dog law upgrade.

10:21 - So prior to, the modernization Act there,

10:26 - you know, puppy mills were really thriving on this complete lack of transparency.

10:30 - So now they are required to display

10:33 - information about, you know, the health of the puppy,

10:37 - the breeders, a license number so someone can look up

10:40 - to see if there were any type of violations and, and make that a,

10:44 - you know, conscious decision.

10:45 - But I will say, as we're moving towards this humane pet store model,

10:49 - it is really showing that commerce with a conscience is proving profitable.

10:54 - And so this really is that next phase during a House bill, or House

10:58 - hearing, excuse me.

10:59 - On Victoria's law earlier this year, opponents of the bill had suggested that,

11:04 - it could push people to buy pets online rather than in pet stores,

11:07 - which could further exacerbate the problem.

11:09 - How do you respond to that?

11:10 - Yeah, well, I think that when we start thinking and a more status quo type of

11:15 - scenario, I'll oftentimes that that's, a unique situation that we're with

11:19 - when we're working from a different perspective.

11:22 - You know, this is really an opportunity for us

11:25 - to move forward with a compassionate policy.

11:28 - And that step in thinking about how our pet stores can operate in a humane way.

11:34 - If someone buys a pet in Pennsylvania and they suspect the animal is sick early

11:38 - on, what are the rights?

11:39 - Yeah.

11:40 - So and this is what's challenging, because we talked about

11:43 - how people fall in love with their pet.

11:45 - And I think a lot of times people don't realize, we're coming up on

11:49 - almost a decade now that Libra's law, which was the most significant

11:54 - strengthening of our cruelty statute in our state's history,

11:58 - that was signed into law in 2017, and Libra was actually a puppy mill.

12:03 - Puppy.

12:04 - And he was, returned.

12:07 - And so the farmer in that situation had just said, you know, we,

12:12 - when the produce delivery driver pulled up to see how, you know, to say,

12:15 - well, can we help? Can I take them? And and he did.

12:18 - And that's how that that was the start of Libra's law.

12:21 - You. But Libra was just really left for dead.

12:24 - And so those are the situations that we want to prevent.

12:27 - You know, I know that in Victoria's situation, she was also told

12:31 - that if they could continue breeding her, they would,

12:33 - but because of that genetic condition, they weren't able to.

12:37 - And so, you know, these are, well, we do have a puppy, lemon law.

12:42 - The reality is

12:43 - that people love their pets, and that's not typically your your avenue.

12:48 - You're going to do everything you can to, you know, save your pet

12:52 - and keep them healthy.

12:53 - Let's shift our focus once again on another issue.

12:55 - Pennsylvania is the only state where live organized pigeon shoots

12:58 - still occur, and legal for those that are unfamiliar.

13:02 - What happens at a life pigeon shoot. Yeah, yeah.

13:04 - So. And the bill to end live pigeon shoots has so much public support.

13:09 - And also from responsible sports people, you know, they will, agree

13:14 - that this is not a responsible hunting practice.

13:18 - This is a cruel contest.

13:20 - And I have seen these firsthand.

13:22 - I've witnessed them and they are disturbing.

13:26 - And they are they are very cruel, for the reason

13:30 - that the suffering is not, you know, the death is not usually instant.

13:33 - There is prolonged suffering.

13:36 - Many of the birds will fly off wounded

13:39 - and will literally suffer for hours to days.

13:43 - And so Pennsylvania now has a opportunity to bring this bill up for a vote.

13:49 - It was brought up for a committee vote in 2024, and it passed out of committee.

13:55 - It came out

13:55 - bipartisan, supported, but it never was brought to the floor for a full vote.

13:59 - So now we want lawmakers to have that chance to vote on this bill.

14:05 - Legislative attempts to stop live pigeon shoots have been

14:08 - in the state General Assembly, at least for three decades now. Yes.

14:12 - Why has this been such a difficult issue to pass?

14:14 - And that's what we are where we are at this point.

14:16 - It did pass the Senate in 2013, 2014.

14:19 - It came out of the Senate 36 to 12.

14:22 - I mean, it was strong support and it was never

14:25 - brought up for a vote in the House at that time.

14:28 - So now we're in the situation

14:30 - where it was brought up for committee, but never a floor vote.

14:34 - And I think a lot of the times, you know, there's questions around,

14:38 - you know, is this just a part of Pennsylvania's tradition?

14:42 - And, you know, we think about how that has evolved

14:46 - and how when there is any kind of unnecessary suffering,

14:51 - and there's an alternative, like clay targets that, you know,

14:56 - this is what Pennsylvanians care deeply about is that compassionate policy.

15:00 - And and so at this point,

15:02 - we just need lawmakers to bring it up for a vote, because we do

15:06 - believe it has the support to finally end these cruel contests once and for all.

15:12 - And once again, you represent Perry.

15:13 - Warren is sponsoring the legislation to end the pigeon shoots.

15:16 - Where's his bill in the legislative process?

15:18 - So it has been introduced and it's been assigned to committee.

15:21 - So we are, urging anybody to,

15:25 - you know, take that action to, to, you know, and, you know, encourage their state

15:29 - representative to do all they can to get this bill brought up for a fair vote.

15:34 - Last year, Humane World for animals uncovered the results of an investigation

15:37 - into wildlife trafficking. What were the findings? Yeah.

15:40 - So this is another one where Pennsylvanians don't

15:44 - want to support global wildlife trafficking.

15:48 - And the crisis associated with that.

15:50 - I mean, there are links to drug trafficking, human trafficking, terrorism.

15:55 - And so Pennsylvania had launched a special invest investigation

16:00 - in our state and found about 400, ivory and wildlife products.

16:06 - So those were things like from elephant tusks to rhino

16:10 - horn to, tiger claws.

16:13 - And, you know, we this is a chance in the state to close

16:17 - in, in state market for those ivory and wildlife products.

16:22 - How significant of a problem is this in Pennsylvania

16:25 - and how do we compare to neighboring states? Yeah.

16:27 - So a lot of our neighboring states have already, closed that in-state loophole.

16:32 - And so we are kind of one of those states that still is hanging out

16:36 - there, and needs to pass this legislation.

16:39 - This has been in the works for about ten years now.

16:43 - And our current bill sponsor actually spent time in, in South Africa.

16:48 - And she saw firsthand the, you know, issue with global

16:51 - wildlife trafficking and what that crisis looks like.

16:55 - And so she decided to bring that home and got that bill

16:59 - passed through the full House.

17:01 - So it's now awaiting action in the Senate.

17:03 - So we're in a good position at this point in the legislative session.

17:08 - For those who aren't familiar, you just reference for,

17:10 - Representative and Kruger's right.

17:12 - Can you tell us a little bit more about specifically what would her bill do?

17:14 - Yeah.

17:15 - So this is really closing an in-state loophole.

17:18 - There is right now.

17:19 - Federal regulations that would impact the state to state,

17:24 - transfer of these products.

17:26 - But this would close and in-state loophole that's currently still allowing,

17:30 - you know, these, these products to, you know, be sold within our state.

17:34 - Well, we found about 400 of these products

17:39 - that was a sampling of the investigation that,

17:42 - we chose to, to really hone in on for, for that,

17:46 - if you think about it, that these wild animals, lions, tigers,

17:49 - giraffes are generally thousands of miles away from Pennsylvania.

17:52 - If the sale is illegal, how are they making their way into the state?

17:55 - Yeah.

17:55 - So a lot of times this is where that wildlife trafficking comes into play.

17:59 - And this is why this is so important.

18:02 - Because you can't tell old ivory from new ivory.

18:06 - And you know, these are really serious situations.

18:09 - And, so at this point, that's why that in-state market,

18:13 - we would have to be able

18:15 - to reinforce that these products can't be sold in Pennsylvania.

18:20 - You know, because of that, you can't tell old from new.

18:23 - And so that's the situation that we're in right now.

18:25 - Let's look at another piece of legislation.

18:27 - There's efforts in both the House

18:28 - and the Senate to prohibit cat decline unless it's medically necessary.

18:32 - Why do people seek out this procedure.

18:34 - Yeah.

18:34 - So you know, I think about this in terms of

18:37 - we love our pets and we want to keep them with us.

18:40 - And I feel you hear so often that, you know, we're

18:44 - cats are being surrendered to shelters because they're scratching up furniture.

18:48 - The more likely scenario is actually that they're going to the bathroom

18:51 - outside of the the litter box.

18:53 - And that is so often due to the decline of,

18:57 - cats because this leads this isn't just a nail clipping.

19:02 - This is actually an amputation of their knuckle right above their Paul.

19:06 - I mean, this is literally an amputation.

19:08 - So this is not just cosmetic.

19:10 - It would be the equivalent of our own finger.

19:13 - The first, you know, bone this would be amputated off.

19:16 - And it's a really, painful procedure.

19:19 - And it's, you know, it has long term impacts with how they walk.

19:25 - And so that's when you get into situations where people bring their cat in

19:28 - and they say it's going to the bathroom outside the litter box.

19:31 - I don't know what to do.

19:32 - And it's directly linked to an issue like that.

19:35 - At Humane Lobby Day, we had capital Cat Ravi,

19:39 - who is, been a great cat advocate for this cause, did, show support

19:46 - for his number one legislative priority, which is this ban on on cat decline.

19:50 - We have veterinarians weighed in on this issue. Yes.

19:53 - So we have the Humane Veterinary Medical Alliance,

19:57 - and they have 150 Pennsylvania based

20:00 - veterinarians that are all in support of this legislation.

20:03 - And it is because they know that,

20:06 - you know, this is for cosmetic reasons, not the right thing to do.

20:10 - But of course, there are medical exemptions

20:13 - for those situations where this might be medically necessary.

20:17 - There are there are cat decline laws that have been approved in nearby states.

20:21 - Yeah, there there is definitely a growing number.

20:23 - You have Maryland, a lot in the northeast.

20:26 - You've got New York, Rhode Island, Massachusetts,

20:29 - you California recently as well.

20:32 - And so this is, one of those issues that it's like the time has come.

20:37 - You know, advocates are very supportive of, of this.

20:41 - And, you know, you hear a lot of veterinarians, too,

20:43 - that want to even the playing field

20:44 - because they, you know, don't want to offer decline procedures.

20:49 - But you also don't

20:49 - want to be in a situation

20:50 - where you're sending business to another, you know, practice.

20:54 - And so this really levels out that playing field.

20:57 - And, and by having this standard in place that would prohibit cat decline

21:03 - unless medically necessary, are there other veterinary cosmetic procedures

21:06 - that you'd like to see prohibited?

21:08 - I could see perhaps your crop coming to mind. Yeah, yeah.

21:11 - And those are, you know, illegal in the state

21:14 - unless they're performed by a licensed veterinarian.

21:16 - And a lot of that is through the the dog law, modernization Act.

21:20 - And so we,

21:22 - you know, this is definitely our top priority right now as the next step to

21:26 - to prohibit that cat decline for unnecessary, unless medically necessary.

21:32 - Now, you referenced a moment ago you had Humane Lobby Day on May 4th.

21:35 - What happened to tell us a little bit

21:37 - about the message that you want to send to lawmakers?

21:39 - Oh, my gosh, lobby day was the best day of the year.

21:43 - So we had advocates come out from all over the state,

21:47 - and they you are there to share their story

21:52 - with why this these issues matters with them directly with their lawmakers.

21:56 - And that is what has led to the bipartisanship on our issues.

22:00 - And and where we also see that public support

22:04 - from across the state, and so those those are

22:07 - the stories the beagles, the and Vigo Beagles were there.

22:10 - We had puppy mill survivors there.

22:12 - It is really a chance for people to put a true face with this issue.

22:17 - And, you know, did not,

22:18 - you know, to to see that this is more than just an abstract thought.

22:21 - This is actually the face of the animals that are being impacted

22:25 - and why, we can have these commonsense, compassionate policies in place

22:31 - and give our animal friends the political representation they deserve.

22:36 - What more can be done to encourage lawmakers to support and advance bills

22:39 - that match your priorities?

22:40 - Yeah, so that there's three takeaways.

22:43 - First, stay in touch with your lawmakers about these issues.

22:47 - Stay up to date on, these different priority bills.

22:52 - And at the end of the day, the most important takeaway

22:55 - is use your voice for what matters most to you.

22:58 - I always think about the late Jane Goodall and she said, what you do

23:02 - makes a difference.

23:03 - You have to decide what kind of a difference you want to make.

23:06 - And I'm so thankful to all the,

23:09 - Pennsylvanians who choose to make a difference in the lives of animals.

23:13 - What would you say is your greatest animal welfare successes in recent years?

23:17 - You know what I'm really excited is that, the Pennsylvania

23:21 - just became the 40th state to include pets in protection from abuse orders.

23:26 - And that is really important because that now gives court

23:30 - professionals the tools to assist victims in leaving these domestic violence

23:36 - situations with their entire family, including their cherished pets.

23:40 - Kristen. Toula, thank you so much for joining us.

23:42 - Thank you so much.