00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by

00:03 - customer's bank.

00:12 - Welcome to journalists roundtable and Larry Casper

00:15 - our guests are Dennis Owens from a b c twenty seven in Harrisburg.

00:20 - Charlie Thompson from penn live

00:23 - and Stephen caruso from spotlight pa welcome everyone.

00:28 - As Stephen we're going to start with you

00:30 - Pennsylvania hat it's primary election on Tuesday

00:32 - how well did the incumbents do.

00:36 - Well they did pretty well and that makes sense because incumbency is a huge advantage

00:40 - you know you are a sitting elected lawmaker

00:42 - your name is at you know in the press

00:44 - you get to send out mailers there's a lot of good

00:46 - things that come with that so about twenty one

00:48 - had challengers who were ot

00:51 - twenty one incumbents had challengers on the ballot and that alone is an

00:54 - accomplishment cause you have to get signatures

00:56 - you need those signatures be vetted by lawyers who might be trying to kick you off

00:59 - and of those twenty one are just that challenges on the ballot only four lost

01:03 - and you know I have a feeling that's probably been about average maybe a little bit

01:07 - higher but definitely not the most we've seen in a

01:09 - a

01:10 - Primary see isn't in Pennsylvania and you know

01:13 - even then two of those who lost

01:15 - were barely incumbents they were folks who are

01:17 - elected in special elections picked by party

01:20 - insiders and then put on the ballot

01:23 - this is their first time they ever facing the

01:24 - electorate and they didn't pass muster then so

01:26 - you know it's it's good to be an incumbent and

01:29 - a lot of political scientists always note that

01:31 - it's easier to raise money

01:33 - it's easier to you know put your name out there

01:35 - and it's easier to make sure around the top of people's

01:37 - minds when they go to cast a ballot on election day

01:40 - or Steven among the congressional races that you cover and which issue

01:44 - got the most attention from the candidates.

01:47 - You know what the number one issue I think on everyone's mind is that that amorphous

01:51 - ca concept known as affordability

01:53 - the funny thing is

01:54 - it basically just means people aren't getting as much bang for their buck as they

01:57 - used to whether we're talking about

01:58 - energy bills

01:59 - gas in their car rent food it's everything

02:03 - and I think you know generally what it means is

02:05 - people want to see the government do a little bit more

02:08 - too whether it's you know

02:09 - state spending or aggressive as action against those

02:12 - who they see as driving that affordability crisis no

02:15 - landlords utility companies.

02:18 - Data centers

02:19 - you know

02:20 - see them

02:21 - tackled by an assertive government

02:23 - and

02:24 - and you know I think that's

02:25 - definitely the Democratic primaries

02:27 - think we're even seeing that in republican primaries president Donald trump has

02:31 - been cutting deal as with utility companies to try and lower rates.

02:35 - You know maybe we're driven up by data centers

02:37 - you know he he's kind of

02:38 - somebody who is supported a more aggressive use of government

02:41 - writ large so

02:43 - you know I think every voter's thinking about that the difference between

02:46 - the parties and among voters is basically just

02:49 - how far shrewd elected officials go

02:51 - to to actually tackle this issue and how far is too far

02:55 - Charlie let's look at congress in district ten and that would be Janelle stealth and

03:00 - she won the Democratic primary over her rival

03:03 - Justin Douglas

03:04 - how did she do it.

03:06 - Well you know.

03:07 - Honestly I think

03:09 - just to set the stage later the tenth is the district held by

03:12 - representative Scott Perry.

03:15 - Former chairman of the house freedom caucus and a

03:18 - guy that

03:19 - democrats across the country really have been pining to take out

03:23 - as a as they try to recapture the majority in the statehouse so

03:27 - Perry has a big bull's eye on his back

03:29 - so

03:30 - That makes it and

03:31 - because the term f in the current iteration is is rather competitive

03:36 - still republican leaning but it's viewed as double by the democrats

03:41 - and in this primary they had gentle cells in a long time

03:44 - television news anchor

03:46 - on

03:47 - The nbc affiliate here in south central pa.

03:50 - Running

03:51 - for the seat

03:52 - she was the Democratic nominee in two thousand twenty four

03:55 - and

03:56 - she kind of ran this campaign as an incumbent

03:58 - against Justin Douglas who was an upstart.

04:02 - Dauphin county commissioner and and

04:04 - Janelle just basically muscled through on what I

04:07 - would say is what we are learning is the the power of.

04:14 - Longtime stability in a in a media chair and I think we learned that that

04:20 - seriously trump's being

04:22 - a county commissioner

04:24 - in one county

04:25 - and because Janelle has that that name ID established

04:28 - over three decades in the business here and.

04:32 - She she kind of ran a row

04:33 - dope campaign didn't really put herself out there that much

04:36 - trying to not make mistakes

04:39 - didn't want to give Justin Douglas a debate stage to elevate his candidacy and

04:45 - you know

04:45 - it

04:46 - It worked.

04:47 - Yeah so she won she trounced him in the

04:49 - primary and now that this sets up a big rematch

04:52 - one of the biggest in the state

04:54 - I understand you talked to Douglas

04:56 - just this morning.

04:58 - Yesterday morning

04:59 - yesterday morning and the morning after interview

05:01 - and what were his reflections on his defeat.

05:04 - Well I mean I think he.

05:07 - You know

05:08 - Justin Douglas

05:09 - learned that there's a big difference between.

05:12 - You know

05:13 - he

05:13 - Was very celebrated in two thousand and twenty three

05:15 - because when he won that county commissioner seat

05:18 - it flipped the majority on the board of commissioners in

05:20 - dauphin county for the first time in over one hundred years

05:24 - to the Democratic party and he became kind of a little

05:28 - he kind of had his fifteen minutes of fame in fact in early twenty twenty four or

05:33 - maybe it was even late two thousand twenty three.

05:36 - When.

05:38 - Then president Joe biden kicked off his

05:41 - you know

05:42 - futile reelection effort.

05:45 - Before everybody wanted to get rid of him.

05:48 - I remember

05:49 - Justin Douglas was the guy that they

05:50 - they

05:51 - brought into valley forge to introduce president biden

05:55 - I mean he had that much cache for from that upset

05:58 - and

05:58 - but but the thing is he found

06:00 - the hard way the difference between

06:03 - oh I I can you know three out of four when this

06:05 - seat so I only have to finish third place to win.

06:09 - In a county race versus.

06:12 - A

06:13 - Three times as large congressional district where it's

06:16 - survive and advance and your

06:18 - your

06:18 - opponent has

06:19 - about ten times as much money.

06:22 - How about you.

06:23 - Douglas just within your viewing area so you were watching well yes Justin Douglas

06:27 - may have a future I think he's on the progressive side

06:30 - Janelle still send a long time TV news anchor.

06:33 - Yeah we got very close to Scott Perry the last

06:35 - time it almost from the moment of that loss

06:37 - some DC folks anointed er the governor endorsed her

06:40 - and she had three million dollars in the bank to

06:43 - just endure Douglas's ten thousand dollars so

06:45 - it was it was very lopsided

06:47 - to

06:47 - A point yeah she was kind of running as the incumbent in this race and

06:52 - and she prevailed and and I would also echo

06:54 - yeah I don't mean to be dismissive of Douglas he

06:57 - if you watch him I mean he

06:59 - he's very effective he's very smart and

07:02 - he definitely

07:03 - he definitely has a future

07:05 - when democrats are looking for a candidate

07:07 - around south central Pennsylvania again

07:09 - will you mentioned to that

07:10 - that most Washington state it's what this one's

07:12 - watched in the nation in fact there are four

07:14 - congressional seats

07:16 - in Pennsylvania they're being watched in the nation that Republicans have

07:19 - and democrats think they can take and

07:21 - of course it's jenelle stout those match ups

07:23 - are now set and it's generals thousand and ten

07:25 - yep.

07:26 - Now let's consider another race at Dennis that was going on within your viewing area

07:30 - and that would be pa senate

07:32 - district forty eight that was raised between

07:34 - Chris gebhardt

07:35 - and clovis crane now this race had a very strong presence

07:38 - on local TV in south central Pennsylvania why

07:41 - well I was

07:42 - as I was in

07:43 - the

07:44 - the advertisements were on and our newscast and

07:46 - they would be on three times in a newscast and it's not often that you get an ad

07:51 - in which one person's calling the the opponent

07:53 - a drunkard and a deadbeat but they did that in that this one and it was one of three

07:58 - what was basically happening was a statewide situation

08:00 - that happens to be one example of it because

08:02 - let's face it the Lebanon borough berks

08:05 - Lancaster county republican primary is normally a sleepy affair

08:09 - that nobody's paying attention to Chris gebhardt is the incumbent

08:12 - that was Lisa baker also in camera bought a lotta also

08:15 - that were incumbents in other parts of the state

08:18 - that fought that faced very stiff challenges and some nasty tone campaign ads

08:23 - and it was a group called citizens alliance Pennsylvania

08:26 - or they're being challenged from the right

08:28 - one of the big stories from the election night is

08:30 - the incumbents all survive despite the fact that millions of dollars were spent

08:35 - in those races in a primary against sitting incumbents that

08:40 - their voting records or otherwise conservative

08:42 - what it was is a proxy fight between these skills games which are everywhere

08:48 - and currently not taxed and regulated currently we're waiting on the state supreme

08:51 - court to rule on whether they're legal or not.

08:54 - Chris gebhardt brought

08:56 - in Lebanon county brought the bill that would tax them at thirty five percent

08:59 - the industry didn't like that

09:01 - they want it to be lower

09:03 - and so they put up opponents

09:05 - in three of these different places to challenge.

09:08 - The basically I think it's challenging republican

09:10 - establishment leaders senate republican

09:12 - establishment leadership

09:13 - and had any of those three

09:15 - last

09:16 - the the winner was going to be a headache for senate

09:18 - republican leadership so senate republican leadership

09:20 - was one of the winners on on Tuesday

09:22 - Stephen I know you're tuned into this discussion and before we talk about any more

09:26 - about district forty eight

09:28 - that the senate

09:29 - can you give us just a quick review on pacs political

09:32 - action committees in other words tell us in brief

09:34 - what they are allowed to do.

09:36 - Yeah

09:37 - you know so

09:38 - there's kind of like

09:39 - there's a lot of ways to spend on politics but fundamentally

09:42 - the two main ways would be.

09:44 - I am a candidate or I'm somebody directly cooperating with the cabinet

09:47 - if that's the case.

09:49 - I can take money I just have to make sure I write

09:51 - down every single person who gave me a dollar

09:53 - and you don't work you know

09:55 - a million dollars isn't Pennsylvania

09:57 - limits on it and then I spend it as I directed as

09:59 - the candidate or in cooperation with the candidate

10:01 - hey how are you talking about this issue of data

10:03 - centers I want to make sure my messaging matches

10:05 - that's a pretty traditional way to do this

10:08 - but what we have had since citizens united but the

10:11 - roots of this even go back deeper to the seventies

10:13 - and

10:14 - is

10:15 - Independent spending uncle warden

10:17 - and

10:18 - that comes through super pacs

10:20 - and that the

10:21 - wolf pack has to be able to say where their money comes from

10:24 - a super pac can get away with not with with taking it from

10:28 - foundations from I I seeds from

10:31 - places that don't say

10:32 - who is actually spending their money

10:34 - the super pac might have a name like citizens for a better tomorrow

10:38 - and you know their funding might be a foundation

10:39 - has just called you know the Pennsylvania foundation

10:42 - you have no idea who it is

10:44 - now the main thing so this group can get

10:45 - millions and millions and millions of dollars

10:48 - and then

10:49 - you know and then spend it the main thing is they just can't coordinate

10:52 - and then sometimes leads to some of the messaging the dentist was talking about where

10:55 - you start to hear messages like they're a deadbeat

10:58 - you know there are drunkard

10:59 - and you know going after people's records in aggressive ways bringing stuff up that

11:03 - just hasn't really been as vetted by the media or the public writ large

11:07 - because you know

11:08 - people have a ton of money to spend and they have an agenda and an axe to grind and

11:11 - they have and they're going to do it because

11:13 - you know this is the political system we weapon

11:16 - so tell us more about the gambling into arrests that the made their presence known

11:20 - during this campaign we're talking about in pa senate number forty eight.

11:24 - Yeah so

11:25 - you know

11:26 - it it is easier to hide money if you're using a super pac but you can if you know the

11:30 - right way to look for campaign finance reforms you can find it

11:33 - so

11:33 - What what I found from looking through state and federal records is that

11:38 - the what we saw is about

11:39 - nine to ten million dollars in spending on nice legislative races particularly those

11:44 - three senate races the dentist noted

11:46 - and featuring the incumbents of Chris gebhardt Elisa baker in car camera or lhota

11:51 - all of whom are republican incumbents all of whom are closely aligned with leadership

11:54 - most of that money though was actually spent

11:57 - to protect them

11:58 - too you either

11:59 - cold up there record or attack their opponents

12:02 - it was about six point six million dollars and

12:03 - it came from a group called wind for Pennsylvania

12:06 - where if you go back a couple notches of where the money came from

12:09 - it came from sports betting firms

12:10 - and you know we're talking about.

12:13 - Fanatics

12:14 - draft kings

12:15 - and fanduel those sort of groups who loaded I'm a

12:19 - big super pac

12:20 - spending across the country in states that both have legal sports betting like

12:23 - Pennsylvania or in states that don't

12:25 - and

12:25 - and you know

12:26 - I should note that

12:28 - you know

12:28 - the skill games argument too is fundamentally an argument about revenue

12:31 - gambling conversations while tricky

12:33 - it's easier to slap a tax on something related to gambling that it is the raise

12:38 - everyone's time taxes you know when they go buy food or when you know they'd go get a

12:42 - service done or whatever on that sales tax or personal income tax so

12:45 - that's what this is about as a conversation about where to get revenue from

12:48 - and where the sports bettors come in

12:49 - is there were conversations last year during the budget impasse

12:52 - of potentially raising taxes on their product of you know sports bets

12:56 - and you know that that ended up dying and now you know soon after that conversation

13:00 - ended you see sports bettors coming in

13:02 - and spending a ton of money to backup

13:04 - six point six million dollars

13:06 - the majority of money spent to backup center Republicans

13:08 - you know

13:09 - the sports betting pac has not gotten back to me despite repeated attempts.

13:13 - Asking them to

13:14 - but I'm very curious to see how that will play out you know now that we have this

13:18 - other big money an inch trust on the table in Pennsylvania

13:20 - on top of skill games on top of casinos

13:23 - on top of the horse racers on top of every single

13:25 - one who has their you know fingers in the pie

13:28 - betting in Pennsylvania

13:29 - Steven about two minutes ago you mentioned that sen camera bought a lada

13:33 - and she she was quoted in your story and she says that supporters of skill games

13:37 - are trying to take the pa senate

13:40 - hostage out what else did she say to

13:42 - support that point.

13:44 - Water point was that you know the these challengers

13:47 - to go back to a dentist was saying about skill games

13:49 - they were almost entirely funded

13:52 - citizens the lines was almost entirely funded this

13:54 - cycle

13:55 - by

13:56 - Pay somatic the the firm that manufactures and makes

13:59 - the technology that

14:01 - that runs these machines that

14:03 - legalities now before the state supreme court that are all over the state and corner

14:06 - stores and convenience stores and

14:08 - in social clubs

14:09 - so her point was effectively my opponent isn't my

14:11 - opponent my opponent is citizens alliance and skill games

14:14 - and you know to Dennis's point as well

14:17 - that.

14:18 - This isn't even so much about the particulars of what the exact tax rate is I think

14:22 - you you're talking the capitol lobbyists you know this game well

14:25 - their point was it's it's about the policy sure

14:28 - that's sort of the starting point but it's also about leadership

14:31 - this is about you know

14:32 - if you put enough people in

14:34 - who are allied with your group they might be willing to change leadership find a

14:38 - different team that's more aligned with you more conservative on some issues

14:41 - you know potentially or you know and willing to maybe pass a bill you like better

14:45 - so

14:46 - You know what

14:47 - the senator's points enter about a lotus point was is that you know.

14:50 - All this spending is an attempt to change the

14:53 - the the

14:54 - the makeup

14:55 - upset Republicans to try and get a better outcome

14:57 - and you know that's our political system in an age

14:59 - where and you can spend as much money as you want

15:01 - Charlie did you find anything surprising

15:04 - about Tuesday's primary.

15:06 - Well.

15:08 - No I I wouldn't say that I did and.

15:10 - I

15:11 - Think.

15:12 - You know we're always

15:14 - we're always

15:15 - looking for surprises but I mean most of the

15:17 - candidates that the parties seem to prefer.

15:21 - One

15:22 - of

15:23 - I mean with the pos.

15:25 - Is in other words what with possible

15:27 - way I mean I mean even

15:28 - in the third district in Pennsylvania that's not

15:30 - really a competitive seat in the general election but

15:33 - but the race to succeed Dwight Evans right I mean.

15:36 - Representative Chris Rob

15:38 - won that primary

15:40 - but

15:40 - may

15:41 - maybe people you know I I dunno I I didn't look at that

15:44 - one really closely because we're more focused on the

15:46 - the big general election races but.

15:49 - You know maybe because of the the split between the other candidates he he won pretty

15:53 - easily but but that was a progressive

15:56 - that not everybody in the party wanted and so that was kind of

16:00 - interesting but

16:01 - you know I I think it's you know like onto the general and we'll see

16:05 - where the chips fall there because cause you know there's a lot of.

16:08 - Shifting cross currents that could define yet how this

16:11 - this election year turns out Dennis how about you.

16:16 - By my count governor shapiro first of all he

16:18 - bought the governor the top of the ticket in November

16:21 - both of them ran unopposed Josh apparel

16:23 - and Stacy guarantee Josh shapiro got over a million

16:25 - votes Stacey already got six hundred seven thousand

16:28 - democrats are saying there's an enthusiasm gap I'm not sure you can make that

16:31 - inference in a primary election and

16:33 - there's nobody really on the top of the ticket there Jason Richie will be her

16:36 - running mate

16:37 - Stacey Gary that is on the republican side that's where she endorsed.

16:40 - So that

16:41 - hit has set up a governorship pair also

16:44 - endorsed a couple including Janelle style

16:45 - since we've already talked about it and it says

16:47 - governor shapiro doors

16:48 - three people in.

16:50 - Congressional races and they all were victorious on

16:52 - election night

16:53 - however

16:55 - he didn't publ luckily endorse

16:56 - so it was sharif street and it was

16:58 - Chris Rob and it was a doctor Alice Stafford it outsider who was coming in woman.

17:02 - He didn't endorse in that but the fact is a lot of people said rabb was not his choice

17:07 - and that for Josh shapiro who may have.

17:10 - Is this the first time this is going to be said here he may have national

17:13 - of

17:14 - That though.

17:15 - Awhile ago Dennis

17:17 - yeah okay

17:17 - so if he's got

17:18 - presidential ambitions

17:20 - that the one area he doesn't want to have to defend is too far left

17:23 - and Chris ram could drag things

17:26 - further left than he likes and those two have

17:28 - actually sparred a little bit

17:30 - in the past so Rob was not his

17:32 - favorite choices that is the

17:34 - conventional wisdom though

17:35 - shapiro certainly not said anything

17:37 - and at the end of the day though I mean

17:39 - he's

17:40 - very very likely to win that general election and at the end of the day if that helps

17:44 - you know I mean

17:45 - if the democrats

17:46 - which shapiro wants more than anything

17:49 - as a good democrat would be

17:50 - I would think the democrats to have majority control the us

17:53 - but that seat is the

17:55 - most Democratic seat in america from what I've

17:57 - heard I've heard that said if if it's not one or

17:59 - two

18:00 - so it's going that's

18:01 - that's a safe

18:01 - Democratic seat that the election was Tuesday night

18:04 - wrap.

18:05 - A dentist let's go back to a remark he made a minute ago about the votes for

18:09 - chaparral and guarantee he said shapiro got

18:11 - about a million votes he said guarantee got six hundred thousand is that right

18:14 - roughly so what does that say I mean both

18:16 - technically were winners of course that night

18:18 - but what does that performance

18:20 - for guarantee say how potent will she be in November well it depends on who you talk

18:24 - to democrats are trumpeting it and saying oh and Thursday as in gap all I'm saying is

18:28 - I'm not so sure you can draw that

18:29 - inference necessarily from a primary election

18:32 - on Tuesday

18:32 - but clearly more people voted for it for the

18:34 - governor he is popular he is well funded.

18:38 - She has I don't think it's a

18:39 - stepping out of line to say she has an uphill fight

18:42 - yeah.

18:43 - Steven let's go back to you let's turn away from the

18:45 - election at least for a few minutes here and consider

18:47 - some of the other stories you've been working on

18:50 - and you were working on one about electricity affordability

18:53 - and high energy prices we all know about that

18:56 - and the governor wrote a letter to the utilities and he's trying to have a hand

19:00 - in what happens in the future tell us briefly what that's about.

19:04 - Yeah so the governor put a letter out to you

19:06 - know going back to this idea of affordability

19:08 - he sent a letter to.

19:10 - The

19:10 - utility it said these are not folks who generate electricity

19:13 - the folks you get the electricity from a power station two are

19:17 - our sockets

19:18 - and

19:19 - that he wrote a letter to them saying I want you to do these

19:23 - things before you come to the pmc which is a state agency overseeing them asking for

19:28 - more money asking for a rate increase asking for consumers

19:31 - to pay more of their dollars

19:33 - to get the juice they are used to gang.

19:36 - You do.

19:37 - The the things he asked for were you know trying to

19:39 - reduce the amount of profit that is baked into their.

19:44 - Base and their equations are what they ask for he

19:46 - asked them for also to use some government financing

19:48 - from the us treasury

19:50 - to fund some of their projects so we reduced the cost of blending

19:53 - he bought all of this combined

19:55 - could we do more affordable prices

19:57 - now he doesn't have a lot of power on this directly

20:01 - he has a big bully pulpit though

20:04 - for instance you know the the ceo of pico

20:06 - resigned

20:07 - a few days after basically the governor made a big big fight over a pico rate

20:13 - increase that you know they went to the phc they revealed

20:15 - and

20:16 - shapiro led the charge to say like this is too much

20:19 - mommy this is she agreed I think there's a word of years

20:22 - and pico ceo stepped down

20:24 - they rip through the case

20:25 - they were they were clearly chastened and

20:28 - so you know

20:29 - that bully pulpit that the governor has and I think it is particular to Josh shapiro

20:34 - because you know he's a very

20:36 - strong

20:36 - cater

20:37 - is clearly powerful the issue is more of though how do you put this stuff in the law

20:41 - and how do you make sure it's followed outside of just you know

20:44 - when there is attention on it from the governor because

20:46 - you know the governor the person has a lot of obligations

20:49 - and you know how many reporters are there

20:51 - going to the pvc to cover these cases how many

20:53 - lawmakers repay attention when

20:55 - you see commissioners doing

20:56 - you know that's a board that I don't think a lot of

20:58 - people really know about particularly this day and age so

21:01 - you know there there are powerful suggestions when I talk to

21:04 - folks in the energy space that they liked a lot

21:06 - the big thing is how do you follow around them

21:09 - he does have a new staffer in his office who's going to take the lead on enforcement

21:12 - but again you know I think the question is always like

21:15 - you know it's one thing to say something it's

21:16 - a whole whole other thing to do something

21:19 - Steven you did mention the public utility

21:20 - commission and you also said that the governor's

21:23 - authority in situations like this trying to set energy rates

21:26 - is certainly limited

21:27 - how much cooperation doesn't need from the public utility commission

21:30 - and as he said some of our viewers really don't know anything about it

21:33 - so take a minute to explain their significance to this.

21:37 - Yeah so the prc is a

21:39 - you know it's been around for

21:40 - probably over one hundred years at this point but it's a public board

21:44 - made up of gubernatorial appointees were then

21:46 - confirmed by the senate whose job is to

21:48 - take a final vote

21:50 - on

21:50 - Any sort of increases by utilities so we're

21:53 - talking electric we're talking gas for talking

21:56 - and you know even like

21:57 - transportation providers railroads taxi companies whole swath of things they've been

22:01 - defined as stable as public utilities

22:03 - are

22:04 - they must go before this board

22:06 - they

22:07 - they there's a

22:08 - private whereas

22:09 - a semi

22:10 - illegal list the process by which they

22:13 - and other advocacy groups

22:15 - haggle over how much is going to be paid

22:18 - out by different groups by consumers

22:20 - residential consumers by industrial consumers by commercial consumers

22:23 - and then the prc votes to approve it saying yes as fast as the public interest

22:27 - it's a very wonky process there are people who spend decades just studying it and

22:31 - even the people who are experts will

22:33 - you know my I try to be someone who has to understand

22:35 - a lot of stuff in my eyes kind of glaze over

22:37 - I'm like Texas a lot

22:39 - with that said

22:40 - do

22:40 - You know the p you see

22:42 - it's very powerful it has so much power and you know I think there is there's gonna

22:47 - need to be cooperation between that for that commission

22:50 - and the governor's office if they want you to get any of what the governor said

22:54 - they have movements

22:55 - of go ahead

22:56 - Stephen pardon me our time is limited.

22:58 - Last question on this subject

23:00 - when the utilities got the governor's

23:02 - letter that contain these demands a briefly what was their reaction.

23:08 - Pretty much thank you for your commentary we will take it under advisement.

23:13 - Alright let's move over to

23:15 - Charlie he wrote about something

23:16 - interesting this has to do with

23:18 - unlicensed artificial intelligence doctors

23:21 - the governor is going to court to stop a chat bot

23:24 - from practicing

23:25 - medicine tell us more about this

23:27 - yeah well it was.

23:29 - It was something that.

23:31 - Shapiro teased awhile oh ago I think you have the video of it

23:34 - Dennis

23:35 - but yeah they went to court because

23:38 - there's a company called character a I

23:41 - that.

23:42 - And.

23:43 - I.

23:44 - Am in over my depth talking too much about artificial

23:47 - investigator tried to engage.

23:49 - There

23:50 - are only companions that shit.

23:53 - Instead you can create

23:55 - people can create characters on character AI and

23:58 - among other things but the way the two old guys here.

24:01 - This is

24:02 - exactly our favorite

24:03 - more

24:03 - but but but

24:06 - the thing is.

24:07 - Yes.

24:08 - One of the investigators.

24:11 - In

24:12 - The shapiro administrator I can't even remember which agency it was.

24:16 - I.

24:18 - Had a conversation and Emily made certain claims

24:21 - that were found to be dubious right or ultimately the

24:24 - the

24:25 - AI character

24:27 - described herself

24:28 - as having a license in Pennsylvania as to be

24:32 - processed

24:33 - and.

24:35 - Checked on that rising

24:36 - attention of the department of state and and

24:39 - the license that they provided was

24:42 - fictitious that didn't exist and

24:44 - you know

24:45 - so I mean they they

24:46 - they did their homework and obviously could prove that

24:48 - there's.

24:50 - Vi character doesn't have a license

24:52 - and the governor is.

24:54 - You know

24:55 - going to court

24:56 - to try to to get this company to cease and desist this

24:59 - kind of thing and.

25:01 - I wonder if this particular company made any attempt

25:03 - to disclose that the bot wasn't they say they do actually they do do they say hey

25:07 - we're fictitious do not listen to any advice

25:10 - these are fictitious character so that's.

25:12 - That's

25:13 - their argument bad you land on

25:15 - when you go there

25:16 - yes but that's not helping when we're in a in a

25:18 - world of AI and companions and people get in deep.

25:23 - Chew it and it's

25:23 - this is just one specific example of a broader.

25:26 - Bipartisan effort

25:28 - attorney general Dave Sunday's republican governor Josh beer democrat

25:31 - to really rein in some of the things going on with AI in fact Dave Sunday just

25:35 - yesterday as we tape this was yesterday

25:38 - laid out he he went around the state talking

25:40 - to teenagers about their use of social media

25:43 - and how it's impacting their mental health

25:45 - and he's got a whole series of recommendations

25:47 - to both the teens to Paris to schools to the companies themselves

25:51 - they want to age make sure your age.

25:54 - Verification some of that stuff

25:56 - but this is

25:57 - this is a big big topic

25:58 - and it's not going away anytime soon and a lot of elected officials are on it and

26:03 - and working to terrain some of it in

26:05 - and I imagine this company character AI

26:08 - they've they've said something in their defense Charlie do you know.

26:12 - Yeah I mean

26:14 - basically

26:15 - it goes back to Dennis's point that they

26:17 - they say that they.

26:20 - Make clear on their site that that

26:22 - these are not.

26:23 - Real.

26:25 - People

26:25 - that.

26:27 - They're defensive

26:28 - and nobody should be going to one of their characters for

26:32 - professional medical advice or anything

26:34 - except is it really clear

26:36 - if it's a thirteen fourteen or fifteen year old and.

26:39 - They're not catching that

26:40 - your

26:41 - character is just railroading pasta and say

26:44 - I can I'm a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist.

26:47 - A gentleman we only have about two minutes left in this show and

26:50 - Dennis I want you to talk about this story about billboards.

26:54 - That popped up in Lancaster county that promote a website called

26:58 - leaving maga dot org

27:00 - tell us briefly who's behind

27:01 - this a felon.

27:02 - He says he was the biggest trump forever had all kinds of problems with family and

27:06 - friends and then just started to be disallow fusion

27:08 - by

27:09 - Donald trump and started this is a it's really a group therapy session website

27:13 - for people who

27:14 - love Donald trump now not so sure and they put billboards around the country about

27:18 - four or five of them I think this guy even

27:20 - for trump he campaigned for

27:22 - how he regrets it

27:23 - well he just regretting where where mega has gone

27:26 - and wants people to get on the website and

27:29 - and let's commiserate and see exactly how many of us there are

27:33 - is his thought and but

27:35 - interesting to me was that

27:36 - they put it in Ruby red Lancaster county

27:38 - and he said we did that by design because we

27:40 - want to go where we're potentially a lot of the

27:42 - the

27:42 - the the trump supporters are and see if they're feeling the same thing we're feeling

27:46 - okay last question for this show Charlie can you tell me about thirty seconds

27:50 - what are you looking forward to

27:51 - in the November election that that'll be especially interesting

27:54 - while just

27:55 - how's it going to play out.

27:57 - I mean

27:58 - I'm

27:59 - I'm dying to know how it turns out but

28:01 - I mean I think there's

28:02 - you know.

28:03 - There's a lot of headwinds against the republican party but.

28:06 - I also.

28:08 - I'm very much a believer in the fact that this is may and that's a couple of

28:11 - political generations away as is the general.

28:14 - Five months a lot can change

28:16 - and

28:16 - what about wild card issues like.

28:19 - Local data center issues that might pop up

28:21 - and force people to take positions that could

28:24 - could play.

28:26 - A

28:26 - Decisive role in some local races that

28:28 - you

28:29 - might

28:29 - change things

28:30 - I mean there's a lot to watch.

28:32 - Alright our guests have been Dennis Owens from a DC

28:35 - twenty seven in Harrisburg Charles thomson from penn live

28:40 - and Stephen caruso from spotlight pa thanks everyone.

28:45 - That is it for journalists roundtable on Larry Casper

28:48 - thanks for watching.