00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by

00:03 - customer's bank.

00:15 - We're going today by Alison Agnes professor of political

00:18 - science at shippensburg university as we record this on.

00:23 - May twentieth I yesterday was Pennsylvania primary election

00:26 - did anything stand out to you as being unique from the results I came in.

00:31 - You know

00:32 - there were a couple of things that that

00:34 - kind of jumped out at first of all thank you for having me

00:37 - and

00:38 - I and I thought that it was.

00:40 - Kind of a

00:41 - it was a quiet election for us

00:44 - which I really enjoyed

00:46 - because it it.

00:48 - Allowed us to pay attention

00:51 - to the politicians

00:53 - who are working really hard

00:55 - and may not you know have like the big splashy races that everybody focuses on

01:01 - and when I mean everybody I mean everybody in the country

01:04 - and you know every two years it feels like all eyes are on Pennsylvania

01:08 - and yesterday it just allowed

01:11 - sort of dimmed Microsoft happened in this very

01:14 - nice normal way I loved yesterday I thought it was great

01:20 - I really did

01:21 - but you know what was interesting was that because it was a

01:24 - relatively

01:25 - it was a quieter primary

01:27 - and I think we're

01:28 - used to.

01:29 - Certainly quieter election than we are

01:32 - the the voting rates were really low.

01:34 - So

01:35 - I think it's preliminary stuff but I was looking at like

01:39 - nineteen twenty percent does that jive with what you saw

01:42 - yeah likewise and what issues do you think drove voters to the polls.

01:48 - You know I

01:49 - these js

01:50 - do

01:51 - With polarization being as

01:53 - sharp as it is

01:55 - you end up with sort of two breeds of cat

01:57 - right you get the seventy five percent of the American public that just wants to go

02:01 - la la la la and not pay attention and then you get the folks that are really in it it

02:07 - and so I think what we saw yesterday were you know the Pennsylvania were

02:12 - really in it

02:13 - and they could be far out on the

02:15 - on the

02:16 - wings of the spectrum

02:17 - or they could just be really kind of

02:19 - like I call it poly sci rhythmic

02:21 - and into this stuff

02:23 - but those were the only folks who

02:25 - who showed up and I think the

02:27 - rest of Pennsylvania one

02:29 - la la la la la la la and they they

02:30 - were not really interested

02:33 - there were some very hot races which I'm sure we will talk about you know around

02:37 - the commonwealth and

02:39 - a couple in

02:40 - the area where I am which is central

02:43 - Pennsylvania and a couple in Philadelphia that were really interesting to

02:47 - see so

02:47 - there was a there was a lot

02:49 - going on but I don't think that it had that kind of

02:52 - big

02:53 - national

02:55 - spotlight on it

02:56 - for better or worse

02:58 - does public opinion of the trump presidency influence how people vote

03:02 - yes absolutely.

03:04 - It's really interesting

03:06 - because.

03:08 - It feels

03:09 - like an end and the research shows and the

03:13 - and the news coverage shows

03:15 - that.

03:17 - And and

03:18 - Donald trump himself shows

03:20 - and Lindsey Graham reaffirms that

03:23 - the republican party really is the party of Donald trump now

03:26 - and so when one party is wrapped entirely around a

03:31 - person

03:32 - as opposed to a set of policy.

03:36 - Stands or as opposed to you know some sort of fixed ideology

03:41 - that is going to profoundly

03:43 - affect

03:44 - how

03:44 - and why people go to vote

03:46 - so Republicans right now.

03:49 - Being wrapped around

03:51 - the Donald trump axle

03:53 - and they are both

03:55 - leaning into this because he has had some

03:58 - very significant wins this week in vanquishing

04:01 - the

04:02 - Republicans that he felt were insufficiently supportive

04:06 - of him but they're also on defense because some of his

04:10 - policies that he has enacted

04:13 - are wildly unpopular and that's not me saying this that's just polling and

04:18 - up and down that says this.

04:21 - So Republicans

04:23 - are going with one very specific set

04:26 - of of trump focused

04:28 - voting

04:29 - and campaigning and then democrats are doing something really different which is.

04:34 - You know outrage and I you know and and the idea

04:36 - that like we have to go to the polls because

04:39 - this is

04:40 - not normal this is

04:42 - disturbing this is you know whatever it is that democrats say and and so

04:47 - those are two different ways of

04:49 - approaching this but if you look at all the polling if you look at historically

04:54 - the midterm results

04:57 - the party

04:58 - that's in power in the white house

05:00 - generally like with two exceptions in the modern era

05:03 - have lost seats

05:05 - like a lot of seats and so

05:07 - do the polling in conjunction with this historical perspective.

05:13 - Has led a lot of have led a lot of

05:16 - political scientists and researchers and tj journalists and pundits

05:19 - to really think that the democrats are are making

05:24 - great strides and have the wind at their back

05:27 - in their sales wherever you want the wind to go

05:30 - and and so democrats are very excited and Republicans are a little wary

05:36 - which could actually be beneficial for

05:38 - Republicans in turn out come the general election.

05:42 - Or it could depress turnout for them and and keep them at home.

05:46 - Both given the twelve candidates were unopposed and there were a few what are

05:49 - considered targeted congressional races

05:51 - that had contested primaries as well why do you think that the the primary election

05:56 - wasn't more competitive.

06:00 - You know.

06:01 - There

06:02 - especially at the gubernatorial level right and

06:05 - so

06:06 - So Josh shapiro is a

06:07 - very

06:08 - popular

06:09 - governor he's popular in the commonwealth he has national name recognition it is.

06:14 - It's not even rumored or whispered anymore it's sort of just

06:17 - talked very casually that he will be running for president.

06:20 - In which case you

06:21 - that explains a lot of the

06:23 - the

06:24 - national coverage and the positive.

06:27 - Coverage that he is seeking

06:29 - and so I think the idea of primary somebody who's actually quite successful

06:34 - according to the polls you know in the job.

06:37 - Seems like a fool's errand and as for the republican party

06:41 - my sister mission based on some conversations

06:43 - that I've had with some folks in Harrisburg

06:46 - is that

06:48 - they really just didn't want to have a food fight here

06:51 - that that.

06:52 - Running against shapiro is going to be.

06:55 - Problematic enough

06:57 - and so why why have some sort of in you know

07:00 - inter party

07:02 - Internet and fight you know if they didn't want that and so I think that they

07:06 - tried as hard as they could to clear

07:08 - the path

07:09 - for garrity and

07:11 - and make her as strong a candidate as possible because when you have a candidate

07:16 - who

07:17 - is running against other members of the party in the primary

07:20 - that as we can see and can tuckey we could see in Louisiana we can see in a whole

07:25 - bunch of different places you know Georgia.

07:27 - That's when the gloves are coming out

07:29 - and when it's you know

07:31 - republican on republican.

07:33 - Nastiness

07:35 - then all the democrat has to do with like her sort of sit

07:37 - back and get the popcorn and then use all of that footage

07:41 - and that oppo research in the general election so

07:44 - it was probably smart of the Republicans to go alright let's just

07:49 - make sure that we have one

07:51 - candidate

07:51 - who runs against the democrats why one candidate

07:55 - and I

07:56 - and then just make it a head to head

07:57 - and and it'll it saves money for the parties the whole nine yards

08:01 - the guarantee campaign has talked quite a bit about Josh shapiro I being anticipated

08:05 - to run for president in two years

08:07 - well that deter potentially if that happens is that deter

08:09 - voters from supporting his run for reelection as governor.

08:13 - Think so I could be wrong about this it's you

08:15 - know a lot of the stuff is fairly individual

08:18 - but I really do believe that.

08:21 - Everybody loves kind of a hometown honey

08:24 - I know that when I watch the news if there's ever you know the national if there's

08:28 - anything about Pennsylvania or even central Pennsylvania or even like something local

08:32 - it could be bad I get

08:34 - really excited I'm like that's me

08:36 - and so I think that a lot of

08:38 - Pennsylvania would be very excited.

08:41 - That our governor was running for

08:43 - president because we could go

08:45 - to our governor like way to go you know

08:47 - new Hampshire you don't have anything on us

08:50 - and

08:50 - so it might I think kind of

08:52 - juice some some of the.

08:55 - Some of the electorate and certainly he has made

08:58 - great strides in trying to be seen as somebody who.

09:03 - Gets as he says stuff done and and works across the aisle and

09:08 - tries as hard as he can to accomplish his goals without that kind of bear know local

09:14 - partisanship

09:16 - that is

09:17 - that I think most people really

09:19 - just don't like

09:21 - I can only speak for myself and my students my students do not like it they really want

09:27 - the rhetoric and the tone and volume just to decrease a little bit.

09:31 - Because my students have been raised

09:33 - in in an environment where everything is very personal

09:36 - and it's loud and it's angry and it's name collie

09:39 - but I mean I'm

09:40 - you know twice three times their age

09:42 - and and I remember when it just wasn't like that you know when when two candidates

09:48 - from opposing parties would stand up and don't you know the other guys really

09:50 - find like he's a good person like we just disagree on policy

09:54 - when you take it out of the policy realm

09:56 - put it into the personal realm

09:57 - that's when the conversation starts getting really pissy and and

10:02 - and so I I suspect that shapiro governor shapiro is

10:07 - really trying to make strides

10:09 - towards the the non

10:10 - pissy.

10:12 - Type of campaigning that.

10:15 - Would be more appealing nationally

10:17 - especially because many Americans are really tired of all the polarization.

10:22 - How would you characterize the tone of the governor's race

10:24 - that we had just witnessed during the primary.

10:27 - I thought it was civil

10:29 - and

10:30 - you know a

10:31 - cake

10:31 - the the

10:32 - goalpost has moved so

10:35 - much I mean if you if you look at other races the the

10:38 - Kentucky fourth

10:40 - congressional district race

10:42 - not only got personal it got like weirdly sexualized and and so

10:47 - you compare the

10:49 - the

10:50 - guarantee and and shapiro camp Spain's to to that and it just felt like

10:54 - oh okay this is fun

10:55 - and

10:56 - so I thought it was

10:57 - I thought both campaigns did a

10:59 - nice job of trying to

11:01 - carve out

11:02 - name recognition for themselves and and distinguish

11:05 - themselves from the other side which is important

11:08 - because.

11:09 - I

11:10 - Unlike what I think a handful of citizens believe

11:13 - that

11:14 - there is no unit party

11:15 - right there to really distinct parties at this point

11:18 - and it's that kind of distinction and differentiation that is extremely important

11:24 - so that voters understand this isn't it's not just about disliking the other team

11:29 - it's about asking candidates what are you going to do for me

11:32 - you know how are you going to help gas prices are up.

11:35 - The price of everything is up

11:37 - how are you going to help how are you going to help me or my you know my child's in

11:41 - the military how are you going to help them

11:43 - and and and that's really what politics is supposed to be about

11:47 - and it's and that's what our elected officials are supposed to do.

11:51 - That shapiro campaign is funded ten to one ratio compared to the guarantee campaign

11:56 - doesn't make a difference whether a candidate is being

11:59 - funded by large wealthy donors vs grassroots support.

12:02 - Is a great question

12:03 - yes makes a huge difference.

12:06 - First of all

12:07 - money is great

12:08 - and

12:09 - and candidates love money because it allows them to to do things that without money

12:14 - you can't do like run a lot of air.

12:17 - Ads on the air

12:19 - like keep a nice war chest going just in case you

12:21 - might want to run for president that kind of thing.

12:24 - So that's that's super and if a very rich person

12:27 - comes to you and says hey I got all this money for you

12:30 - you can make a lot of hay with it

12:31 - but that said

12:32 - it's the small dollar donations

12:36 - that show enthusiasm

12:39 - that show connection

12:41 - because what I've found

12:43 - in in

12:44 - all my years of being a political scientist is that when voters have skin in the game

12:48 - and that skin could be a five dollar donation

12:51 - they will go vote versus

12:54 - if one rich person says

12:56 - oki doki artichoke you I'm going to give you a ten million dollars

13:00 - and

13:00 - that doesn't connect that candidate

13:02 - to the people who need to go to the polls on election day

13:06 - and get that candidate into office and so

13:09 - we first saw this

13:12 - in a very big way in two thousand and eight when Barack Obama ran for president

13:16 - because he said

13:17 - big money is

13:18 - fine but that's not the way I'm doing this I'm going to ask.

13:22 - As many people as possible for three dollars

13:25 - that's it just three dollars

13:27 - if you give me three dollars

13:28 - then.

13:29 - I'd love your name your nickname

13:31 - maybe your phone number your email address yes

13:33 - and what that gave him because people are very excited they also didn't have

13:38 - the maximum amount at the time it was like five thousand dollars to to donate

13:43 - but five bucks

13:44 - you know they had that and so you donate five

13:47 - dollars thirty dollars got you a car magnet

13:49 - and that's not a huge amount of money

13:51 - you donate that and then you have skin in the game

13:53 - and he's your guy

13:55 - so you go vote on election day you get the card magnet

13:59 - and

14:00 - not only does it tie you to the candidate

14:02 - also they get

14:03 - your name your nickname your phone number or email

14:05 - address which means they can call you again and say

14:08 - hey

14:09 - just checking you gave us three dollars last time do you have another three bucks

14:12 - because the more p people will donate

14:15 - the closer they tie themselves to that candidate.

14:19 - In several of Pennsylvania has targeted Democratic congressional primaries there were

14:23 - candidates that appear to be pitted as

14:25 - progressives versus moderates in those primary races

14:29 - what's in yesterday's results tell you about

14:30 - the future direction of the Democratic party.

14:34 - You know to me it showed me that

14:37 - location is everything right

14:39 - and because certainly like Chris Rob winning I

14:43 - do.

14:45 - In the twelfth district and now her name has

14:47 - completely escaped me and she's wonderful

14:50 - Janelle salsa.

14:52 - No no

14:53 - Stafford sorry

14:54 - that yeah

14:55 - I'm.

14:56 - Terrific.

14:57 - I

14:58 - So

14:59 - In those districts progressives are great

15:02 - and in the tenth district running against.

15:05 - I.

15:07 - Running against.

15:09 - Now I can't think of his name congressman Perry

15:12 - that would be him.

15:13 - You know a progressive is is not going to do as well

15:16 - so I've always argued that when we look to like the future of the Democratic party.

15:23 - More so than the republican party which has always

15:26 - been fairly homogenous and remains so to this day

15:30 - for democrats

15:32 - which is more diverse

15:34 - it's a more diverse party

15:36 - and now we're seeing the diversity not only includes

15:39 - race and political ideology but also geography.

15:42 - It's

15:43 - a

15:43 - Zoo around my tummy could be elected in new York city

15:46 - he could not be elected in Janelle style since district and that's okay right

15:51 - because that's the way the Democratic party has always been

15:54 - there's lots of it's a it's a big tent and there's lots of different

15:59 - places for these actors to go and and run and succeed and

16:04 - so twenty twenty five with all of the off year elections

16:08 - the gubernatorial elections and the mayoral election

16:10 - that saw democrats winning

16:12 - and the very progressive folks like mon Tommy

16:16 - and the very establishment folks like Abigail spam burger

16:20 - and

16:20 - Cheryl like that's you know

16:22 - it's it's

16:23 - it's a little bit more of a mixed bag on the

16:26 - Democratic side Bennett isn't the republican side

16:29 - in three of the targeted

16:30 - a Democratic congressional

16:32 - tickets

16:33 - for

16:34 - that the three current candidates that governor shapiro

16:37 - had endorsed had all won does that help the governor.

16:39 - Absolutely

16:41 - if if he is able first of all picking a winner is good

16:45 - and which is why president trump

16:47 - is very selective in his endorsements in trump too.

16:52 - Because when you become that kind of kingmaker

16:56 - it does it makes

16:57 - you look like a winner it makes you look like you've got gravitas and some power

17:02 - and so if these candidates that and I think all three of his.

17:07 - Congressional candidate said he supported one.

17:10 - That may some look pretty good come general election if they then are able to succeed

17:15 - into office and so it also ties up a nice little

17:19 - relationship that he would like to establish between.

17:23 - Him as governor of Pennsylvania and the Democratic congressional campaign committee

17:28 - which is an important one as you go forward trying to be national figure and so I

17:32 - think this was really good night for Josh shapiro

17:35 - in the seventh Democratic congressional primary

17:38 - the Democratic congressional campaign committee was criticized for financially

17:42 - supporting one particular candidate Bob Brooks who ultimately won

17:45 - ombre is there

17:46 - a benefit perhaps for

17:48 - candidates duking it out in the primary I suppose

17:51 - to

17:51 - Having an individual endorsed and supported

17:54 - whether it's by

17:55 - a financial entity a national entity or perhaps your state committee.

18:00 - That probably is context dependent.

18:02 - Especially when it comes to like the d triple c

18:05 - where most Americans don't really know what the

18:07 - d triple cs

18:08 - and but they sure do know I mean

18:10 - Brooks was

18:11 - Brooks was endorsed not only by shapiro but also by Bernie Sanders

18:14 - and I'm not sure that those two names are together all that frequently so that

18:19 - was a lie little bit unusual and kind of cool for him

18:23 - but

18:24 - it certainly bolstered

18:26 - the d triple c's

18:28 - muscle

18:29 - to say we are picking

18:31 - we are endorsing good candidates

18:33 - who

18:34 - can then go on and win especially if those

18:36 - headwinds continue to the general election.

18:39 - In the tenth congrats national district in

18:41 - south central Pennsylvania detail stealth and will again

18:44 - face Scott Perry as similar match up as two years earlier

18:47 - has anything changed in the last two years to change the dynamic of this race.

18:51 - A significant amount

18:52 - has changed.

18:53 - First of all I think people really like a grudge match

18:56 - you don't have to learn any new names and so you can just go

18:59 - right back to stealth vs Perry

19:02 - which I think folks like and do for the supporters

19:05 - of Janelle stepson who lost by one point two percent

19:09 - so not

19:10 - a huge this was not a romping

19:12 - I think that this will.

19:15 - Really kind of

19:16 - invigorates her supporters and be like alright now's the time

19:20 - what what has changed however really is the political

19:23 - landscape so in two thousand and twenty four

19:26 - Donald trump came back into the presidency winning

19:29 - all seven swing states as he will remind you

19:32 - and and and and winning the popular vote

19:36 - and with him

19:37 - he was able to bring we call them presidential coattails

19:41 - he was able to bring in on those coattails

19:43 - a bunch of Republicans and and make it seem.

19:47 - Not even see him make it a reality that Republicans

19:51 - were the winners and twenty twenty four

19:53 - they run the house they run the senate they run

19:55 - the white house there's a conservative majority

19:58 - on the supreme court

20:00 - and so so that was the narrative in twenty twenty four and right now

20:04 - Donald trump's approval ratings are

20:07 - dropping

20:08 - consistently not dramatically but consistently

20:13 - and since he began in office in January of two thousand and twenty five

20:18 - it has just been a downward spiral and so

20:20 - the

20:21 - in that he has taken.

20:23 - That have gone against the campaign promises that he made

20:28 - to keep us out of foreign wars to

20:30 - do he said that

20:31 - prices will

20:33 - will drop on day one

20:35 - and prices have not dropped they've gotten worse gases you

20:38 - know I think like sixty percent higher than you know was

20:42 - a year ago

20:43 - and so the the political landscape has changed incredibly

20:48 - and it is the result

20:51 - of Donald trump's

20:52 - actions and so again when the republican party wraps itself around him

20:58 - and it is incredibly

20:59 - clear

21:00 - even to people who don't pay pay attention to politics this is not the biden economy

21:04 - anymore this is Donald trump's economy

21:07 - and that that is really going to be an anchor around the necks of the Republicans.

21:13 - Especially Scott Perry who is especially close to president trump

21:18 - and I think that's going to be a much more significant problem for him

21:22 - this go around than it ever has been before.

21:25 - What does the Democratic party need to do to win back voters that perhaps left the

21:28 - party to support Donald trump two years ago.

21:31 - I think that they need to make the case that trump two point oh

21:36 - has been problematic

21:38 - that the.

21:40 - Corruption that at the.

21:44 - Unnecessary

21:46 - actions

21:48 - that have

21:49 - profoundly affected the economy and the mood of the country

21:54 - that this needs we need change that it was a mistake

21:59 - but

21:59 - it can be undone

22:02 - if democrats pick up the house and or the senate

22:05 - and so I think that that

22:07 - that is a case that's going to have to be very carefully

22:10 - made because these democrats don't want to go in with

22:13 - you know with

22:15 - both

22:16 - barrels

22:16 - blazing you know to say like ooh you guys made a huge

22:19 - mistake instead what they have to say is like okay

22:22 - we get it

22:23 - we heard you

22:24 - do

22:26 - But the mood right now is very anti incumbent

22:29 - and so that starts

22:31 - with

22:32 - the president

22:32 - but it goes quickly it trips quickly down

22:35 - to not only

22:36 - stay you know national senate and house candidates but also the state

22:41 - senate and the state house and then even

22:43 - to the local races

22:45 - because I think Americans are so frustrated

22:48 - and you could see that in the way that our voting

22:51 - shifts right it goes from like

22:53 - democrat to republican to democrat to republican people are mad

22:57 - and

22:57 - so in order to

22:59 - harness that anger

23:02 - and make a compel being positive case

23:04 - for yourselves democrats really have to make the case that it's not just

23:09 - trump bad we good

23:10 - it's trump is bad and here's the

23:12 - difference here's what is going to happen when we get into office and make sure that

23:17 - the promises that they are making

23:19 - can

23:20 - be fulfilled

23:21 - because if they just make more empty promises

23:24 - what we're going to see in political science we

23:26 - call it political efficacy which is the trust

23:29 - that Americans and the voters have

23:31 - in our institutions and our elected officials

23:35 - and and when those levels of efficacy drop

23:38 - then not only do people stop voting they stop participating

23:43 - they

23:44 - think that the entire system is rigged

23:46 - and

23:47 - when they believe that like firmly in their hearts

23:51 - that opens the door for really bad things like political violence and

23:56 - the kind of actions that I don't think any of us really want.

24:00 - Do you think that concerns about political violence played a role in PR perhaps the

24:04 - less competitiveness of some of the races this year

24:08 - sure

24:08 - I mean I've I've heard from.

24:11 - I've heard from many of my students that they

24:15 - they just don't see the appeal

24:16 - of running for office

24:18 - and there they tend to be more online than me but I can tell you that

24:23 - that when you do interviews like I do

24:27 - and if it's

24:29 - local if it's national it almost doesn't even matter like

24:31 - you'll get some really

24:32 - bad things

24:34 - and sometimes sent you even if you don't say anything it's really all that

24:37 - terrible

24:38 - and

24:38 - and so students are aware of this and they think

24:42 - ooh I'm not sure I really want to do that and then you get to the incredibly.

24:47 - Disturbing number

24:49 - of threats against elected a officials

24:52 - that is now becoming just a little bit more spoken

24:55 - about I I think it's the most undercover story

24:58 - that we have if you look at the capitol hill

25:01 - police statistics

25:03 - the number of threats against lawmakers from both sides

25:07 - this is not a partisan thing the number of threats against their staffers

25:13 - and the number of of

25:15 - of of just nasty angry posts.

25:18 - That gets shared and sent around the memes that are really terrible

25:22 - and

25:23 - what's appealing about that you know I mean I I just I can't I really can't

25:27 - blame

25:28 - people for wanting to move away from that

25:31 - so.

25:31 - I

25:32 - Imagine

25:33 - that it is deleterious

25:36 - to candidate

25:38 - and.

25:39 - You know a recruitment and selection

25:43 - and

25:43 - and and unfortunately I think some very good people have

25:46 - said you know what this is not for me I don't blame them

25:50 - but it is a loss because when good people decide they're not going to run

25:54 - it does narrow down the possibilities for the voters.

25:58 - What lessons can be learned from this year's primary.

26:03 - I'm always a big fan of democracy as good

26:06 - I always enjoy that and

26:08 - I went to go vote

26:10 - yesterday with with my daughter who is

26:12 - twenty four years old hard to imagine

26:16 - but it was just it was a low it was really a lovely experience

26:20 - and

26:20 - because we went in it was the the place was empty

26:23 - but the the ladies at the at the desk were always so nice

26:27 - and

26:28 - and

26:29 - and that's the kind of you know she was really excited she's been living she lived

26:33 - abroad for two years she was in Spain teaching English

26:36 - and and she came back she was so excited to vote

26:39 - and

26:40 - because it does make you feel like your voice voice matters

26:43 - you know that that we

26:45 - have we have a say

26:46 - and so I always land on that as kind of the the good takeaway from yesterday's

26:52 - yesterday's elections just on a personal level

26:55 - and on a national level it sure feels like

26:58 - the republican party is now entirely the

27:00 - party of Donald trump base not necessarily on

27:04 - our

27:04 - primaries but on the national

27:07 - primaries that we saw coverage of in addition

27:09 - to the interesting races in Pennsylvania

27:12 - we've been speaking with Allison dagnall political science professor from

27:15 - shippensburg university thanks so much for joining us

27:18 - thank you for having me.

27:22 - Hmm.

27:31 - Hmm.