00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by

00:04 - customer's bank.

00:16 - Welcome to the pcn capital a preview I'm Larry Casper

00:21 - today the subject is the state budget

00:23 - and it's impact on business but first where joy joined by Wendy ruderman

00:28 - senior reporter

00:29 - at the Philadelphia inquirer welcome to our program.

00:33 - Thanks for having me Larry

00:34 - one day you filed a story about a young woman named Taylor

00:38 - who was diagnosed with a new illness doctors say

00:41 - was caused by smoking marijuana what happened to her.

00:46 - Weight so she she had been a chronic marijuana smoker

00:50 - she described it as smoking morning noon and night with sneak

00:53 - snacks in between for about fifteen years she even worked at a dispensary

00:58 - so she was a big proponent of using cannabis for all kinds of things

01:03 - and

01:04 - she on cred the day after it was Christmas Eve if she had our

01:07 - Christmas she had a huge dinner

01:09 - and she smoked before dinner she smoked after dinner she's felt fine

01:14 - she went home she woke up in the middle of the night with just intense

01:18 - nausea and incredibly intense stomach pain

01:22 - and it was so bad she she ended up vomiting very forcefully

01:25 - until there was literally nothing left she went to the.

01:30 - Urgent care they thought maybe she had appendicitis she was doubled over.

01:35 - Crying and they ended up

01:37 - referring her to the e r in new Jersey virtua boy he's hospital

01:43 - they did a cat scan they did a c t a e k g they did her

01:47 - blood work they couldn't find anything wrong with her

01:51 - and they sent her home.

01:53 - She went home and she still continued to to vomit to the point where you know there

01:57 - was really nothing left to come out and she

02:00 - was like

02:00 - something is very much wrong so she went back

02:03 - on but before she did she took a hot shower and the hot shower eased her pain

02:09 - temporarily and her nausea and when she went back

02:13 - to the jar she let them know that the hot shower did

02:16 - did help and right away a light bulb went off and they diagnosed her with

02:22 - cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome

02:25 - it's called chs it's relative Lee knew

02:28 - and

02:29 - I think that

02:31 - doctors first started researching and writing

02:33 - about it about two thousand and eighteen

02:35 - but then started putting the pieces together and they were seeing a lot of people

02:40 - coming into the e r with these vomiting

02:43 - stomach pains and

02:45 - and hot showers seem to help and so the common denominator was always chronic

02:51 - cannabis use so they put the two together and figured it out.

02:56 - They want when they one of the

02:58 - symptoms of this illness was something he wrote about called scrummaging now it's not

03:03 - pleasant to talk about it but somehow it's a variation on vomiting

03:07 - and it's a tell tale sign

03:09 - explain what the doctors observed and what they concluded from that.

03:13 - Right so doctors were actually

03:15 - call it sky from meting which is a combination I was screaming while vomiting and

03:20 - it's a very forceful unique and violent sound it's

03:24 - not like food poisoning or anything of that nature

03:27 - and an iar doctor at temple university hospital told me that

03:32 - and.

03:33 - Emergency medicine doctors can now almost diagnose or recognize the syndrome from the

03:38 - sound that the patient is making while vomiting

03:41 - now.

03:42 - We are our time is limited when do so let's consider

03:45 - what the doctors in your story blamed

03:48 - for this behavior

03:49 - and they talked about thc levels

03:51 - in the marijuana give us a brief review on what

03:54 - thc levels are

03:56 - and what they mean to.

03:58 - Taylor's

03:59 - problem.

04:00 - Yeah so thc is the psychoactive component in

04:04 - cannabis it's what gives you that high feeling

04:07 - and you know growing up in the seventies eighties when we you know people grew plants

04:12 - it had about five percent teach the three to five percent thc but now you know you

04:18 - can get some of these products to have very high levels of of that cycle accurate

04:23 - as a

04:23 - psycho active component like

04:26 - up to thirty percent

04:27 - and and

04:29 - and

04:29 - these are just agriculturally engineered plants

04:31 - to have higher and higher levels of thc and

04:36 - and sometimes people will.

04:38 - Look for for strains or or brands that have very high levels in them

04:44 - and doctors believe that it's just too high a level for some systems

04:49 - at once the doctors came up

04:51 - with the diagnosis here Wendy what was the the treatment

04:54 - that

04:55 - relieved Taylor's

04:57 - symp items.

04:58 - Yeah so unusually because he seems to work

05:02 - doctors will give you capsaicin it's like the same it has the same ingredient that

05:08 - chili pepper peppers have in it but it's what makes chili peppers hot

05:13 - so they'll rub some of that on you elderly people

05:15 - use it for arthritis and such but it can trigger

05:18 - that sensation of a shower

05:20 - anti nausea medications like drama mean do

05:23 - not work so they prescribe an anti psychotic

05:27 - and they give you an injection of it usually and

05:30 - that and that relaxes you and somehow works for it

05:35 - but the only cure is

05:37 - abstinence counts as not smoking

05:39 - and that is actually becoming harder and harder for many chronic users because of the

05:44 - high levels of thc oh Wendy there are states bordering Pennsylvania as you know that

05:49 - have legalized recreational marijuana

05:52 - so what's the impact on Philadelphia area

05:55 - emergency rooms.

05:57 - Yeah so basically there have been studies that show that in states that have

06:02 - legalized recreational marijuana or even medical marijuana.

06:07 - Cases of this syndrome have literally doubled in the e r so

06:12 - where it's it's legal it's there it's recreationally

06:16 - legal in new Jersey Delaware both border Philadelphia

06:20 - and

06:21 - and so hospitals in the Philadelphia region are seeing

06:25 - a big number a big spike in these cases I think and

06:29 - Jefferson university hospital reported three hundred cases

06:33 - in the fiscal year two thousand twenty five which was

06:36 - like a

06:37 - fold in crease from two years prior.

06:40 - A Wendy last question then what is the takeaway lesson

06:43 - here and what Taylor do to recover from this ordeal anyway.

06:48 - Yeah well Taylor

06:49 - knew that

06:51 - she absolutely had to stop smoking to avoid another iar visit and and the crazy thing

06:56 - is you know she had smoked for this is something

06:58 - she had smoked for fifteen twenty years so

07:01 - it just kind of came out of the blue so she did end up quitting because the

07:05 - alternative is so much more painful

07:08 - and

07:08 - and and she did get better from it

07:11 - so.

07:13 - Yeah

07:14 - the good news for patients here is that this is now recognized as a legitimate

07:18 - mental

07:18 - medical condition right.

07:20 - Correct yes for the first time federal health regulators last year in the fall

07:25 - and they made it an official diagnosis it has a

07:28 - code that will help doctors in the e r track it

07:32 - and study it.

07:33 - Alright thank you very much Wendy rhuddlan senior reporter

07:37 - at the Philadelphia inquirer.

07:39 - Thank you

07:40 - more of the piscean capital preview after

07:44 - a short break.

07:47 - Welcome back

07:48 - our guest today our Felicity Williams executive director

07:53 - at the pa policy center and David Taylor president and ceo of the pa manufacturers

08:00 - association devil will start with you

08:02 - the pa house passed a bill that supports the governor's

08:05 - fifty three three and a half billion dollar spending plan

08:08 - for Pennsylvania what is your general impression

08:11 - will

08:12 - mean this is pantomime that this is the first

08:14 - step of the process and moving the vehicle will.

08:18 - Get the the actual budget deliberations underway

08:21 - and

08:21 - you know for context

08:23 - state government has increased by twenty billion dollars

08:27 - over the last twelve years going from a thirty billion dollar general fund budget

08:31 - to now over fifty billion dollars the governor wants to spend

08:34 - fifty three billion

08:36 - in the coming year and the revenues simply

08:39 - are not there this is this is more than the commonwealth can afford

08:42 - and it puts us at risk of

08:45 - endangering our emerged nsi reserve which is the

08:48 - rainy day fund which has about eight billion dollars in it

08:51 - and

08:52 - it would be foolhardy and

08:53 - really misguided to spend money down from the reserve fund

08:57 - Felicity what is your impression of the governor's budget proposal.

09:01 - So I think we have a very interesting proposal here from governor shapiro

09:05 - he is trying to balance a couple of key things and I'm

09:08 - going to touch a little bit on some of what what David said

09:11 - he's trying to

09:12 - balance the affordability pressures that not only the commonwealth as a

09:16 - government body is facing

09:18 - but also our residents are are facing here in

09:21 - the in the commonwealth related to affordability

09:24 - he's trying to balance cost shifting pressures that are coming

09:28 - from the federal government

09:30 - and he is trying to also balance

09:32 - investments including constitutional mandates

09:34 - that we have related to things like education

09:37 - funding right.

09:39 - So I am not surprised by the number that the gov owner has put forth

09:43 - ought to respond to a little bit of some of what David has said

09:46 - we actually are still under investing in a couple

09:48 - of key areas that really support a thriving economy

09:52 - and he made a point about what the.

09:55 - Commonwealth can afford our current tax structure creates limitations

10:01 - on the

10:02 - bringing it is true that we are not bringing in

10:05 - the level of revenue

10:06 - that matches our spending

10:08 - however

10:09 - the commonwealth can actually afford

10:12 - to spend much more we have a lot of untapped wealth here in Pennsylvania as I

10:17 - mentioned our current tax structure

10:19 - is leaving on the table

10:20 - at least over six billion doll colors

10:23 - that we are not collecting from multinational corporations

10:26 - from our multi millionaires

10:29 - and the twenty three billionaires that Pennsylvania has

10:32 - so when I look at this budget.

10:34 - I see a balancing act

10:35 - I see need to restructure our tax system so that we are pulling in those revenues and

10:41 - not putting so much pressure you're on working families

10:44 - because the reality is

10:45 - that even if the state does not cover those costs those costs don't go away

10:50 - they are passed on somewhere they are passed onto localities and counties

10:54 - they are passed on to providers

10:56 - they are passed onto household budgets

10:58 - and given the affordability crisis that really isn't something we can afford and so I

11:01 - think we need to think more deeply about about

11:03 - investing more in our core services

11:06 - and to do so we need to have strong revenue

11:09 - that will help support a strong economy

11:11 - David my understanding about this current budget proposals that it represents

11:15 - approximately a six percent increase over last year

11:19 - what do you think of that.

11:20 - Will again it's the.

11:23 - We're not experiencing

11:25 - it so Pennsylvania has a structural deficit in that we have a large and growing

11:29 - population of senior citizens who are beyond their working years

11:33 - of people who themselves require taxpayer funded services and we don't have enough

11:37 - of the younger people who are in their

11:39 - working years to pay taxes to sustain state government on it's current

11:44 - scale what we really need is to

11:47 - have the economic growth

11:49 - that will provide the job opportunities that will keep

11:52 - our younger people here will actually attract people from other places and in that

11:56 - way to build out the tax base to be able to afford.

12:00 - The costs that are coming to us

12:02 - David as far as you're concerned what are the

12:04 - difficult choices during this particular budget cycle

12:08 - well

12:08 - I mean

12:09 - there are always choices and in a better world we would separate tax policy from

12:14 - from the budgeting process altogether that we would have.

12:18 - A tax.

12:20 - A text

12:20 - structure or a text conversation about

12:23 - optimizing

12:24 - conditions for growth

12:25 - and then when the with the revenues that are derived from economic growth then you

12:30 - would go and budget that out and set priorities

12:32 - for

12:33 - spending Harrisburg has never done it that way in my experience that they just decide

12:37 - what they want to spend and then they go about trying to find the money to pay for it

12:40 - for let's say how do you see it one of the most difficult choices that

12:44 - you think the governor should deal with

12:46 - this time around in the budget.

12:48 - Also I think the first one was a David and I agree on some things here that

12:52 - we need to invest in strong economic growth

12:55 - I think where we might disagree on is on how we get to that strong economic growth if

13:00 - we look at the research and the data if we look at peer.

13:05 - States

13:06 - what drives economic growth is

13:09 - investing in core public services so having strong schools

13:13 - reliable infrastructure affordable childcare

13:15 - affordable health care

13:17 - and a workforce that is paid enough to participate in the economy and so I think the

13:21 - greatest challenges the governor has

13:23 - is being able to not

13:26 - propose any cuts

13:28 - and not propose austerity again that is not what

13:30 - drives economic growth it's just the reality

13:32 - what drive economic growth are those investments

13:34 - and so the greatest challenge we have

13:37 - is.

13:37 - Building

13:38 - as David talked about that tax structure that supports

13:41 - the investments we need to make as a commonwealth

13:43 - and that means we need to talk about revenue we absolutely have a revenue challenge

13:47 - we do not have a spending challenge pen sylvania spends on

13:50 - average about the same

13:51 - as.

13:52 - Peer states in other states across the country

13:55 - what we don't do on average is bring in the revenue per person

13:59 - that we need as a commonwealth and so that is where the real conversation is we have

14:03 - got to stop avoiding this tax justice conversation

14:07 - we have got to stop putting the burden of funding our state government on working

14:12 - families those who are least able to afford it

14:14 - especially right now during this affordability crisis

14:17 - and we need to address

14:18 - our upside down tax system.

14:20 - Our lowest

14:21 - one percent of income earners are paying an effective

14:24 - state and local tax rate of about fifteen point one percent

14:27 - while our top one percent are only paying an

14:30 - effective income as the local income tax rate

14:33 - of about six per cent

14:34 - and that is.

14:35 - Very unfair and needs to be addressed if we address that

14:38 - we will absolutely have the revenues we need

14:40 - to invest in all of the core services that drive economic growth in our commonwealth

14:44 - so David both of you have mentioned revenue so it's worth

14:47 - considering if the the governors

14:49 - proposing a thirty three and a half billion dollar budget we have to consider

14:53 - how much money is coming in of course

14:55 - and how does revenue look for Pennsylvania

14:58 - in April was a big tax collection month will.

15:01 - I mean the national economy is doing well and it brought

15:04 - in revenue slightly above what was expected about

15:07 - a billion dollars the problem is that

15:09 - it still only gets us to at the end of the year

15:12 - I dunno maybe forty seven or forty eight billion

15:16 - which still leaves us about five

15:17 - billion dollars short which is a considerable amount of money

15:21 - and that.

15:24 - Or something else that is very concerning is that the governor's revenue

15:28 - projections aren't real

15:29 - that the independent fiscal office said that for the new sources that the governor is

15:34 - proposing

15:36 - with the taxing the gambling machines that are called skill games

15:39 - and also

15:40 - mass commercializing recreational marijuana

15:43 - that the governor's numbers are

15:45 - more than double what could reasonably be expected and also

15:49 - that.

15:51 - Especially with a new with a new marijuana industry that it would take time to

15:55 - to ramp that up

15:56 - furthermore both of those issues were under deliberation

15:59 - in the late budget just passed a few months ago

16:02 - and that there was not political support for either of those things so it's

16:07 - simply

16:08 - I would be really surprised if

16:11 - either of those turned into viable

16:14 - options for

16:16 - for the upcoming budget year.

16:18 - Felicity of what David says is correct then there's

16:20 - about five or six billion dollar differential

16:23 - between the money coming in and the proposed money

16:26 - going out and then that brings to my mind

16:28 - the governor's plan for the rainy day fund and there's some contre oversee there

16:32 - what do you think.

16:33 - So we certainly don't want to be in a position

16:36 - where we are relying on short term fixes

16:39 - to fund our our budget

16:41 - again I think this is an area in which

16:43 - David and I would agree

16:44 - however

16:45 - that means that we then have to have the very serious conversation as I said

16:50 - about

16:50 - restrict schering and re and modernizing our revenue system

16:54 - it just simply has not kept pace

16:57 - as you heard David said earlier with our aging population it has not kept pace

17:01 - with

17:02 - economic growth in our in our commonwealth and again that as a result of not closing

17:08 - corporate

17:08 - income tax loopholes while continuing to reduce the corporate net income tax rate

17:13 - while also not ensuring that we are bringing in the revenue from our multi

17:17 - millionaires and billionaires in this commonwealth

17:20 - that said

17:22 - if faced with the choice of cutting core services

17:25 - like transit

17:26 - that is in every part of the commonwealth.

17:29 - Healthcare that so many pencils aliens rely on.

17:34 - Our participation

17:35 - in the snap program.

17:38 - Infrastructure

17:39 - education because those are the things in childcare because those are the things that

17:43 - would potentially on the chopping block

17:44 - if it comes down to cutting those things that is simply something

17:48 - that we cannot do as a commonwealth if we want to actually invest in economic growth

17:52 - we cannot cut those things

17:53 - putting those things are going to make the lives

17:56 - of working families in erie Pennsylvania

17:58 - everyday Pennsylvania is even harder

18:00 - and they are the backbone of our economy

18:02 - we need them to be able to participate in our economy

18:05 - again

18:06 - most of the.

18:08 - Personal eco tax they're shouldering an overwhelming burden of the personal income

18:12 - tax that's coming in to fund our our state budget

18:15 - and so we need to make sure that we are doing

18:17 - the things to make life more affordable for them

18:19 - and to alleviate some of that tax burden because again

18:22 - the costs don't disappear somebody is going to shoulder those costs

18:25 - and it cannot be the everyday working Pennsylvania of this commonwealth

18:29 - will I mean I would

18:30 - point out that the the the the the answer isn't just increasing

18:34 - spending is increasing the value that is derived from the spending that occurs that

18:40 - government doesn't have a dollar to spend until it takes

18:42 - it out of the private economy from somebody else who

18:45 - earned it regarding the snap program

18:48 - there are federal efforts underway to

18:50 - make sure that the benefits from that program only go to people who deserve it and

18:54 - that people who are defrauding the system

18:56 - should be found and that that fraud should be stopped and

18:58 - sadly governor shapiro is refusing to cooperate

19:02 - with the federal authorities on that effort and one

19:04 - of the most common abuses of snap is when people

19:07 - file for benefits and collect benefits from multiple

19:10 - jurisdictions by refusing to cooperate with the feds

19:13 - we don't know who in Pennsylvania is receiving

19:15 - benefits but is also receiving benefits in other

19:18 - states the only way to learn that is by comparing the lists and governor shapiro Walt

19:23 - won't do that I don't know understand why

19:24 - he thinks that we should continue to pay for

19:27 - for the other point that I want to bring up is something that Felicity referred to

19:31 - which is that somehow our corporations aren't

19:33 - spending enough money and that there

19:34 - not

19:35 - not

19:35 - not paying enough in taxes and then there's

19:37 - a loophole so this is a a

19:40 - proposal called

19:41 - mandatory unitary combined reporting which would just

19:44 - be the Delaware loophole that that's the route the the

19:47 - the reference there however the law has changed

19:50 - between when this happens

19:52 - the Delaware case was regarding

19:54 - the company to toys r us which is which is bankrupt and no longer exists so again

19:59 - talking about the change in the law that the Pennsylvania

20:02 - secretary of revenue has enhanced powers to disallow

20:05 - deductions that he or she believes are

20:08 - fraudulent

20:09 - and so there is no pot of leprechaun gold waiting here that.

20:14 - There will be.

20:15 - Increased tax complexity the cost of tax compliance

20:18 - and that again talking about giving the department

20:21 - of revenue the powers of the IRS's to assess

20:24 - and repose Pennsylvania state tax liability on operations in

20:28 - other states all fifty states are sovereign all have different systems of taxation

20:32 - with different kinds of taxes different rates different test subject

20:35 - ability definitions

20:37 - there is no apples to apples comparison so that means the department of revenue

20:41 - and because of it's mission

20:42 - is going to judge a Pennsylvania businesses operations other states

20:46 - in whatever way brings the most money to the commonwealth it'll be disputed it'll go

20:49 - to court the money goes in escrow

20:51 - there is no windfall for

20:53 - anybody and for a multi-state.

20:55 - A company that doesn't operate in Pennsylvania is a great reason to stay away.

21:00 - I do want to just jump in here really quickly because

21:02 - I do want to respond to a couple of things said

21:05 - one we don't have the data that supports rampant fraud

21:09 - in our

21:10 - snap system in fact we had secretary r kush testify earlier this year

21:16 - that

21:16 - Pennsylvania is currently operating under the six percent

21:20 - error rate

21:21 - and those error rates actually don't calculate fraud

21:23 - rate those air rates deal with things related to paperwork it'd talk about

21:28 - a complex system the public benefits as if the

21:31 - assistance system is absolutely complex right and so it is not necessarily and it is

21:35 - not an indicator of a fraud so I want to be very clear on that.

21:40 - And so

21:40 - one that that's one piece the other piece here

21:43 - is that the changes that the federal government is proposing related to snap

21:49 - actually we have seen historically over

21:52 - previously

21:53 - will not improve.

21:55 - The administration of that program what it does is

21:58 - end up pushing people who are actually else trouble

22:01 - out of the program because of things like administrative barriers and paperwork so

22:06 - that just that is just not the reality so that's one

22:09 - the second piece I want to respond to here

22:11 - is this idea

22:12 - that multinational corporations somehow do not have the sophistication

22:17 - to be able to navigate our

22:19 - tax system in which they would have to do combined reporting.

22:23 - We have both two loopholes we have the Delaware loophole

22:26 - and we also have the Cayman islands loophole again this is the idea where

22:29 - corporations shift profits around

22:31 - to avoid paying taxes the Delaware loophole can be closed by piece of legislation has

22:37 - already been passed by the house and is sitting before the senate right now.

22:41 - The Cayman islands loophole could be closed with an additional piece of legislation

22:46 - we've done the calculations.

22:49 - We know them also from governor shapiro his budget proposal that closing the Delaware

22:53 - loophole would bring in over three hundred million dollars to our commonwealth

22:58 - we know that if we were to close the Cayman island loophole

23:00 - that would bring

23:01 - over nine hundred million in and that is again

23:03 - at a little over a four percent corporate

23:05 - income tax rate

23:07 - both of those numbers right.

23:09 - So that's that I want to say that's

23:11 - also very important

23:12 - and to your question about what are challenges that the governor is facing

23:16 - it is the fact that the house has passed these key

23:19 - pieces of economic growth legislation from minimum wage

23:23 - to.

23:23 - Combined reporting

23:25 - to.

23:26 - Related to child care etc that are all sitting in the center

23:29 - and are not being acted on

23:31 - so that is one of the greatest barriers we're facing right now

23:33 - in the commonwealth.

23:35 - We're talking about the governor's budget proposal here and one of his priorities is

23:40 - raising the minimum wage and it's been a goal of his for a few years.

23:43 - Pennsylvania's current minimum wage is seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour

23:47 - and let's get some context on this

23:49 - briefly how does this compare to other states

23:52 - David

23:53 - will the the government mandated wage is not the actual wage paid in the market

23:58 - you go into sheets there are signs on the door saying that

24:01 - they're paying eighteen bucks an hour.

24:03 - So the market is actually corrected

24:06 - its address that problem it would be a very rare the

24:09 - situation for somebody to be paid to be actually earning only

24:13 - the state minimum wage but I would just

24:15 - remind everyone that the actual minimum wage is zero meaning that you have no job

24:19 - and that

24:20 - that any

24:22 - kind of employment is a value proposition to say what can you bring

24:26 - to the job with your talents with your efforts

24:28 - and that you are are compensated for that with

24:31 - wages and benefits so the the problem with hiking the state mandated wage

24:37 - is that it doesn't give employers any additional money to pay people

24:41 - and so what happens is that employers will have to.

24:45 - Freeze hiring and

24:47 - reduce hours and maybe eliminate positions so

24:50 - it's not as though we can vote ourselves rich by just having the government say that

24:55 - everybody needs to make the nb a minimum

24:57 - of Felicity what do you think of that argument.

25:00 - So it's not a given that employers would have to therefore reduce.

25:06 - Employment or reduce hours

25:09 - those are choices that businesses.

25:12 - Could choose to make or they could choose not to make so the reality is

25:15 - that Pennsylvania

25:17 - has the lowest minimum wage

25:19 - of every single one one of our surrounding states

25:23 - and we know that that is only about

25:26 - fifteen thousand dollars a year before taxes and that affects about eight hundred and

25:30 - sixty five thousand workers in Pennsylvania.

25:34 - So this is a lot of Pennsylvania aunts who are currently not earning.

25:38 - Enough to be able to afford

25:41 - to live

25:42 - in our commonwealth

25:43 - and we know again

25:44 - that that has costs

25:46 - that costs in reduced

25:48 - in investing in your workforce reduces turnover it stabilizes your workforce

25:53 - increases consumer spending locally

25:55 - when workers earn more

25:57 - they spend more

25:58 - that helps small businesses it strengthens local economy ps

26:01 - and it reduces

26:02 - the draw on public assistance programs which are also government funded so again

26:07 - this idea that if

26:08 - we don't.

26:10 - Pay these costs they go away they don't the costs remain

26:13 - they just get shifted onto either our public assistance systems

26:17 - to local governments

26:18 - to household budgets and again things that people simply cannot afford

26:22 - our workforce and our workers are the backbone of our economy

26:25 - we need to invest in them and catch up to every single other state

26:30 - surrounding us it is abysmal

26:32 - that Pennsylvania is this far behind on this issue.

26:36 - I would invest in our workforce by upgrading their skills so that they are able to

26:40 - take on the many thousands of family sustaining jobs that are available

26:44 - in the skilled trades and manufacturing we have open positions

26:47 - of for jobs that start sixty seventy eighty thousand dollars a year if somebody

26:52 - becomes a welder and is willing to travel

26:54 - a rookie can make one hundred grand right out of the gate

26:56 - this is the wrong conversation to have we need to invest

27:00 - in our people

27:01 - by upgrading their skills and giving them the chance to

27:04 - be able to take on the kind of family sustaining jobs

27:07 - in the private economy that would give them

27:10 - the dignity of self sufficiency and independence we can't mandate that into existence

27:16 - we have to to refocus our whole education system to get more value

27:20 - out of the dollars that are being spent we need to re prioritize

27:23 - vocational

27:24 - and technical education

27:26 - and and

27:27 - and again that is the way forward to give people

27:30 - because I mean what are you going to do just wait for the next increasing the mandate

27:34 - for people's prosperity like no we need

27:36 - we need put people on a path toward success.

27:39 - Alright certainly Felicity

27:42 - Felicity and David excuse me I hate to interrupt the

27:44 - discussion sure but we have to

27:46 - take a break we're going to give you a break for a minute

27:49 - while

27:49 - we look at program notes for pcm and then Felicity you'll get the floor back okay.

27:54 - Sounds fantastic thank you both

27:56 - the states senate will pay tribute to america's two hundred and fiftieth birthday.

28:01 - The u s army field band chamber ensemble will be there

28:06 - along with Patrick burns from america to fifty pa

28:10 - that's on today

28:11 - live at one pm

28:13 - on the issues looks at funding for children and youth

28:16 - services with Chris

28:18 - kirschner executive director

28:20 - of the children's advocacy centers of Pennsylvania

28:23 - she'll be here Wednesday at seven pm.

28:25 - On journalists roundtable this week the guests will be Steve all Rick from

28:29 - politics pa

28:31 - Tom short towel from

28:32 - lehigh valley live

28:34 - and John Cole

28:35 - freelance journalist for the center square

28:38 - will join us on Thursday at seven pm.

28:41 - On the history and culture side of programming we'll show you

28:43 - the original Pennsylvania charter on display

28:47 - at the state museum that's on today

28:49 - at nine pm.

28:51 - Battle of gettysburg will be revisited this weekend will have

28:55 - several programs about the battle back to back

28:58 - starting with the union retreat

29:00 - at the trossel farm

29:01 - on Saturday

29:02 - at eleven am

29:04 - get the rest of the scheduling details

29:06 - at pcn TV dot com

29:08 - or you can watch this show and all our public affairs programming free of charge

29:12 - by visiting PC and select dot com and while you're there

29:16 - you can download our streaming service

29:18 - PC and select

29:20 - pcm is everything Pennsylvania where a five oh one c three

29:25 - nonprofit television network that relies on viewers

29:29 - like you

29:30 - to make a donation

29:31 - visit PC and

29:33 - TV dot com okay Felicity as promised sorry to interrupt you have the floor.

29:39 - All good I just wanted to

29:40 - respond a little bit about this this minimum wage conversation

29:43 - because.

29:45 - There are opportunities

29:46 - that we want to invest in related to workers and first and

29:50 - foremost I want to say I think all work is skilled work

29:53 - and if you have ever tried to do any job.

29:56 - Across

29:57 - the era requires a skill to do that job so first and foremost I want to say that

30:01 - but related to our.

30:04 - Labor and union industries are manufacturing industries

30:08 - it is true that we that there are opportunities within those.

30:12 - We need to invest

30:13 - in.

30:14 - The vocational and educational and workforce training programs which there is.

30:18 - The state that invest in those programs so again it brings us right back to the

30:21 - conversation that we need the revenue

30:24 - to invest in those workforce training programs to invest in our education

30:28 - here in the commonwealth that is proves the point

30:31 - that

30:32 - drives a strong economy and we need to have the revenue to be able to do so that's one

30:36 - the second piece of the I want to say.

30:38 - Is that we can't

30:39 - have everyone

30:40 - have those jobs our economy doesn't only run on those jobs our economy runs on

30:45 - variety of jobs for example in our restaurant sector.

30:49 - We just looked at this data because we have the world cup coming to Philadelphia they

30:53 - employ about sixty thousand workers who earn an

30:56 - average annual wage

30:58 - of thirty three thousand dollars a year.

31:01 - That is not a living wage those individuals cannot afford to buy groceries

31:06 - pay rent

31:07 - afford healthcare

31:08 - afford childcare.

31:10 - Pay gas utilities

31:12 - on that income that simply doesn't exist and so this idea

31:16 - that if we just funnel everybody

31:17 - into one industry we will solve

31:20 - our living wage challenges is is false.

31:24 - We absolutely have to ensure

31:26 - that folks who work full time

31:28 - are able to afford

31:30 - basic necessities

31:31 - we cannot be a thriving economy that doesn't do that

31:35 - Felicity our time is limited David a short rebuttal

31:37 - then we're going to move onto something else we'll

31:40 - meet again the.

31:41 - We can't vote ourselves rich

31:43 - though the state mandate doesn't actually.

31:47 - Give employers more money to pay people and

31:50 - what you're going to do is you're going to take

31:52 - those folks at the lowest level of skill

31:55 - and make them unemployable because they're not going to be able to bring the value

31:59 - of the the wage that's being

32:00 - mandated it's a much better way forward to

32:03 - again.

32:04 - I disagree that there's not enough money we spend billions

32:07 - of dollars on job training workforce development programs

32:10 - it's it's

32:11 - it's a tangle of programs more than four dozen

32:13 - that run through five cabinet departments

32:15 - if we could just get a waiver from Washington to to

32:18 - reallocate those funds in a way that makes sense for us

32:21 - there are hundreds of billions of dollars in efficiencies yeah

32:24 - that could be that could be derived and

32:27 - the idea that we're not spending enough money is foolish

32:30 - we're not spending it right we're not spending it well.

32:33 - David what can the growth of data centers in Pennsylvania mean

32:37 - for business in general

32:39 - well I mean it's it's

32:40 - like any other opportunity there's also a danger to it.

32:44 - That

32:45 - we we should want this investment it's going

32:47 - to be necessary for america's success in.

32:51 - The the.

32:52 - Basically the the data arms race with the dictatorship in Beijing

32:56 - and but we're going to need these centres to be powered

33:00 - separately

33:01 - and that that we do not want these to be drawing from the grid competing with

33:05 - incumbent governor wants that's in the end the

33:07 - governor has has directly noted that which is good

33:10 - and that we need to power them as they go.

33:13 - Pennsylvania's superabundance of natural gas is one of

33:15 - the things that makes this investment plausible because

33:19 - even though Pennsylvania is a massive producer of natural

33:22 - gas the second largest in the country we're still only at

33:25 - and maybe a quarter or a third of what our maximum output could be

33:29 - and so if we can

33:31 - we can

33:31 - build out the infrastructure

33:33 - to deliver the power from our native sources to these data centers

33:38 - as they're being built

33:40 - that this would make that investment possible that these

33:43 - these facilities would be thousands of construction jobs

33:47 - once they're up and running there would be a small

33:49 - contingent of permanent jobs fifty to one hundred

33:52 - but that the work the value being added

33:54 - would contribute to the local tax base

33:57 - in perpetuity so this is something that would really

33:59 - be a lifeline for many of our communities that need

34:02 - that revenue to sustain local municipal service and they're clearing gr round for a

34:05 - data center and not far from where we sit in Carlisle.

34:09 - Felicity have you been watching data centers and what could they mean for

34:13 - the state budget and well in business in general.

34:17 - Absolutely so there's a lot of conversation around data centers right now and some of

34:23 - it is is fact and some of it is a little bit of myth

34:26 - of how we looked into the proposal related to data centers in the governor's current

34:31 - budget proposal and it is true that he continues to invest in

34:35 - exemptions

34:36 - to encourage

34:38 - data center development to happen in our commonwealth

34:41 - that means that is a cost to our commonwealth

34:44 - that is revenue now that we are not collecting

34:47 - and so the question then becomes what are we getting in return for that investment

34:52 - that we are making by not capturing those public

34:55 - dollars there's a lot of questions about that

34:58 - David did mention the fact that we know from data and research we see that it

35:03 - that construction.

35:04 - Of a new data center will bring approximately fifteen hundred workers

35:08 - but that full time employment after it's completed is

35:10 - only about fifty so there are absolutely questions about

35:14 - spring job generation temporary jobs

35:16 - vs long term jobs there's an increase in temporary jobs

35:19 - not very much of an increase in long term jobs there's a question

35:23 - there

35:23 - there's a question

35:24 - about the impact that data centers have on our environment

35:27 - there are studies that

35:30 - have focused on the electrical usage

35:32 - for data centers

35:34 - and also leads to rising costs and utilities

35:37 - for

35:38 - surrounding.

35:39 - Folks

35:40 - there are questions about the.

35:43 - Heat elevation that comes from data centers recent enough

35:46 - has just come out about that

35:47 - there are questions about.

35:50 - What is the long term impact of

35:52 - increasing state and local tax revenue again when

35:54 - we're giving exemptions it's eating into that

35:56 - and so the

35:57 - the conversation we really need to have is

35:59 - not about whether data centers are good or bad

36:02 - the conversation we need to have

36:04 - is about how we are ensuring

36:06 - that that we are investing.

36:08 - Appropriately in encouraging growth

36:10 - while also

36:11 - having the appropriate guardrails

36:13 - related to data centers and ensuring that that investment

36:17 - that we are told is associated with them is actually

36:20 - coming back and benefiting folks who need to have local.

36:24 - Government

36:24 - involvement

36:25 - in data center at community input in data set as we're seeing now that a lot of

36:29 - companies are pushing back on this and they have

36:31 - a right to do that they should be able to do that

36:33 - and so we need to create.

36:35 - A system in which that exists.

36:38 - David

36:38 - Felicity mentioned pushback on data centers and that makes me think about citizens

36:43 - who are noticing a potential impact

36:45 - on quality of life issues and have you been watching those concerns will I mean sure

36:50 - the same people who were agitating against

36:52 - the data centers are the same ones who agitate

36:54 - against the production of energy from our

36:57 - native sources here in the commonwealth will always be.

37:00 - People who are opposed to

37:02 - change change is inevitable it's only the question of who's going to be positive

37:05 - change your negative change I think that

37:07 - having permanent employers in our communities

37:10 - that are generating tax revenue while abiding by

37:14 - all of the state laws and actually I would say that if

37:17 - we do power these things properly that there can be a net

37:21 - contribution to the grid which would

37:23 - bring prices down

37:25 - so.

37:26 - For so long as we have

37:27 - new power coming online for these data centers as they're being built.

37:32 - That is how we protect from rising

37:35 - energy prices and I would also say

37:37 - when it comes to all of our building trades

37:39 - every job is a temporary job this is what our workers do they go they build they

37:45 - complete a project and they work to the next

37:47 - object.

37:48 - And then Felicity went on to say that the long

37:50 - term jobs though is is really at a minimum

37:53 - well I mean it is

37:55 - what it is I mean the the the the employment is is

37:58 - is based on.

38:01 - The work that needs to be done a lot of this stuff is is

38:03 - automated with the data processing so to have a small

38:07 - team of people who are manage bring the equipment

38:09 - as the equipment works

38:11 - and

38:12 - that's just the way it is it's still it's still adding value

38:16 - and because of the computations that are going on and that process is going to

38:22 - yield the revenues that will go to the community in perpetuity

38:26 - a question fearful of

38:27 - city how can we make sure

38:29 - that the data centers bring their own source of power

38:32 - like the governor wants it sounds like there might be some work for lawmakers here.

38:36 - There absolutely is work for lawmakers

38:39 - there are several.

38:41 - Bills under consideration right now

38:43 - and focus on accelerating both

38:46 - sitting and expansion and others impose using reporting requirements consumer

38:50 - protections or rolling back tax breaks

38:53 - and so there is work for legislators here that is occurring right now

38:56 - but I also want to speak to the idea that

39:00 - we are certain that we're going to net benefit we don't

39:03 - know that yet right because this is still very new

39:07 - hyperscale data center hers are new we don't have the data yet

39:12 - to be able to say that this is going to be a net benefit

39:15 - we do have some data that raises questions and concerns again

39:19 - the idea of

39:20 - the fact that we have short term job growth

39:23 - but not long term job growth so what is the tradeoff there

39:27 - the idea that this will raise his

39:29 - electricity and utility costs

39:31 - it uses increasing water consumption

39:34 - what is the trade off

39:35 - the idea.

39:37 - That those costs could be passed on to other consumers and so

39:42 - there are some

39:43 - bills in in the

39:45 - senate and the house right now related to some of these issues.

39:49 - There's.

39:50 - Senate bill

39:52 - eleven

39:53 - fourteen from senator Katie muth

39:55 - which would establish ratepayer protections related to large load customers

39:59 - and

40:00 - there's also some bills in the house as well and so again the idea is not saying that

40:05 - we don't want data centers at all

40:07 - the idea is ensuring that we're actually back balancing investments alongside

40:11 - benefits and that we really aren't netting a benefit

40:14 - and ensuring that communities have a voice in this process David is the governor

40:18 - doing anything to actively entice data centers to come to Pennsylvania will he

40:22 - has been boasting about the accomplishment of

40:25 - bringing Amazon web services to Pennsylvania he

40:28 - is a forty billion dollar and.

40:30 - Keeping the repeats that it's the

40:32 - largest private sector investment in the in the history of Pennsylvania and.

40:37 - Hopefully it'll come to pass are talking about two

40:39 - campuses one in bucks and one in lucerne county

40:42 - and and

40:43 - and so

40:44 - you know the governor was he attended.

40:47 - The

40:48 - gov center mccormack's energy innovation

40:50 - summit in Pittsburgh he

40:53 - it seemed as though he was a little more enthusiastic

40:55 - last year perhaps he's trimming his sails now

40:57 - recognizing as as Felicity has pointed to the.

41:01 - Potential shift in public opinion regarding that issue.

41:05 - Let's

41:06 - turn our attention to potential new sources of revenue

41:10 - here and that's where we started we were talking about the budget.

41:13 - So at what stage away in the

41:16 - debate on recreational marijuana

41:19 - a Felicity once you start that and try to be brief please our time is limited.

41:23 - Absolutely absolutely

41:25 - so we

41:25 - I do have a bill that was introduced in the house by rep could you ski

41:29 - and in two thousand and twenty five

41:32 - I it

41:33 - passed the house actually in in twenty twenty five

41:35 - that would establish Pennsylvania cannabis stores

41:38 - are involved the liquor control board creates candidates reviewers

41:41 - accounts etc

41:42 - so there has been progress in the house related to and cannabis bills

41:47 - there are a couple of others as well again

41:49 - where a lot of this legislation is getting stalled is in our senate

41:54 - we are facing challenges from being able to advance

41:58 - at key pieces of legislation in our Pennsylvania senate

42:01 - and that is really where we've we've been stuck

42:03 - at we do know that

42:05 - from the governor's

42:06 - budget proposal

42:07 - that he proposes that would generate about seven hundred and twenty nine point four

42:10 - million in general fund revenue for adult use cannabis

42:14 - we believe that that is probably the

42:16 - initial amount for a first year because of licensing fee revenues but

42:20 - annually that would probably only bring about

42:21 - two hundred and fifty million in revenue

42:23 - or Felicity let's

42:25 - approach this subject from a different angle and consider

42:28 - one has the impact on society of legalizing an intoxicating drug

42:32 - been

42:33 - debated sufficiently by lawmakers.

42:36 - I believe that it has I mean again this is another

42:39 - area in which Pennsylvania is falling behind

42:42 - many of our

42:43 - surrounding

42:44 - states right there are many

42:46 - who have moved forward to advancing legalizing

42:50 - and taxing cannabis

42:52 - and so again I think this is an area where behind on

42:55 - we do have played at that shows that there

42:57 - have not been these rapid increases in crime

43:00 - related to legalizing

43:03 - cannabis.

43:04 - How about you David your position please of mass

43:07 - commercializing recreational marijuana would be a

43:10 - public health and public safety disaster in our

43:13 - industry

43:14 - all of our licenses and permits and insurance

43:17 - whose are predicated on having a safe workplace

43:20 - and this is a bright line for us that that if

43:24 - considering all of the very consequential things that happen in the manufacturing

43:27 - workforce with heavy machinery bladed instruments a high voltage chemical reactions

43:32 - we have to have a sober workforce and so

43:35 - you know it's not the employers appear onion

43:37 - if somebody can't pass

43:39 - a drug test we can't have you on our plant floor osha

43:42 - is not optional the workers' comp law is not optional

43:45 - and so even as the governor puts money forward in this budget for more job training

43:49 - saying that he wants more manufacturing jobs

43:52 - at the same time he's advancing a policy that would would cut people off

43:56 - from being a able to take up that

43:58 - family sustaining work

44:00 - psychosis is to marijuana

44:02 - as cancer is to tobacco and that.

44:07 - It's an extremely unwise path to create.

44:11 - A new

44:11 - basically a new sin so that the government can get revenue

44:14 - from a new syntax Felicity what do you think of David's

44:17 - com meant that we have to have a safe workforce.

44:21 - Well again I think

44:22 - the challenge we have is that we're being create presented with false options it's

44:26 - not either we have a safe workforce or we legalize marijuana

44:29 - we can actually do both and in fact good policy

44:32 - operates with a scalpel rather than a hammer

44:35 - and so it's not that if we legalize

44:37 - marijuana

44:38 - that suddenly every single person

44:41 - that was in a skilled manufacturing or trades job is going to start

44:45 - utilizing

44:47 - marijuana right there are still choices that people

44:49 - would have in this commonwealth they'd be able to make

44:52 - and so I reject the premise that it's an either or we can do both and I think that is

44:58 - where we actually find our best policy and our best compromise

45:01 - not only as a commonwealth but as a nation that has been able to advance good policy

45:05 - let's move on to skill games

45:08 - these are the machines that you see in convenience stores pizza joint social clubs

45:12 - with no government regulation.

45:15 - So what is the status of that debate in Harrisburg nowadays.

45:18 - Well

45:19 - I mean because the legislature didn't move

45:22 - promptly

45:23 - that

45:23 - it is now of a very powerful and

45:27 - deep pocketed

45:28 - industry and they are fighting tenaciously to prevent any kind of.

45:34 - Regulation or

45:35 - tax collection from them I mean are are the position of our association has always been

45:40 - that gambling is unhealthy it's bad for the economy it's

45:45 - trying to

45:45 - teaching people that you can get something for nothing is always bad

45:49 - so.

45:50 - I mean we.

45:52 - The.

45:53 - If the casinos

45:55 - and their slot machines have to pay a state permit and have to pay state taxes

46:00 - it would seem to make sense that that

46:02 - similar machines should be treated in a similar way

46:05 - Felicity is there a law maker proposal out

46:07 - there that's getting traction on skill games.

46:11 - We do have

46:12 - a proposal out there there

46:14 - and

46:15 - that was introduced again

46:17 - in the senate last year

46:18 - this is senator Jean jar

46:21 - and it is again stalled

46:23 - in the senate so hasn't been much traction there will

46:26 - he proposed a specific tax rate Felicity didn't he.

46:30 - I'm sorry I didn't hear you

46:32 - ajor proposed a specific tax rate

46:35 - in his proposals that right to know what that is

46:38 - yes I don't have the specific tax rate in front of me I apologize.

46:42 - Slot machines.

46:44 - Are the gun

46:45 - has gone as high as fifty two percent but I think your proposal is well under that

46:49 - yes yes the governor is raising his ass

46:53 - seeking as

46:54 - taxing at a very high rate as you mentioned

46:57 - to bring in about seven hundred sixty five point nine

47:00 - million annually.

47:03 - Think the question here is

47:05 - if.

47:06 - Folks view marijuana legalization

47:09 - as.

47:10 - An unsavory.

47:13 - How is that any different

47:15 - from gambling and so it's interesting to me that we are making

47:20 - parsing the argument here

47:21 - that gambling is an excess reputable and this is not

47:24 - my language I'm using what I heard an acceptable sin

47:27 - but that marijuana

47:28 - marijuana legalization would not be right and so I think we have to be consistent

47:33 - and how we are approaching

47:35 - these types of issues these are timbo that'd be revenue generating

47:39 - for the commonwealth go David

47:40 - these are two dramatically different things and

47:43 - do you know the the effect of gambling on

47:46 - a person's health or mental health

47:48 - you know that it's a real thing but not nearly so dramatic

47:51 - as with

47:53 - mass commercializing recreational marijuana I never said

47:56 - that if it's mass commercialized that incumbent

47:58 - manufacturing workers would take up using it

48:01 - it's rather that the general public would ink please use

48:04 - that occasional users become daily users that daily users become multiple times a day

48:09 - and by expanding the

48:11 - in the general population

48:13 - people who use the drug

48:15 - because we can't hire people who can't pass a drug test

48:19 - it makes that put that

48:20 - pool of potential new hires that's already too small

48:23 - makes it smaller and it cuts people off from

48:26 - the potential of having

48:28 - not just in manufacturing

48:29 - not to have a family sustaining job

48:31 - not just in manufacturing but in

48:33 - in healthcare in in in transportation in any number of industries.

48:37 - Folks we just have two minutes left in this segment now as you know last year's

48:41 - budget didn't get signed until November it was do at the end of June

48:45 - school districts and nonprofits were inconvenienced

48:49 - Felicity tell me in about a minute's time

48:51 - do you foresee any speed bumps

48:53 - on the road to it on time budget here.

48:56 - I do I mean

48:58 - Pennsylvania is not known for having an on-time budget

49:02 - in recent years that is not new new or unusual.

49:05 - So I do think that there are going to need to be some very serious conversations of

49:10 - course it also being an election year

49:12 - adds additional

49:14 - incentives to continue

49:17 - that ongoing conversation and challenges to Katie the ongoing combination so I

49:21 - anticipate that we will be continuing to have budget dates

49:24 - at least throughout the month

49:25 - of June and into July

49:27 - what do you think David will the effect that we're having an election in November

49:31 - have an impact on budget debates now

49:34 - it's going to be a long year.

49:37 - Alright all done that.

49:40 - That that's all the time we have

49:42 - Felicity and David thank you very much

49:45 - our guests have been Felicity Williams executive director

49:49 - at the pa policy center

49:50 - and David Taylor president and ceo

49:53 - of the ph manufacturers association thank you both for joining us.

49:59 - PC as Ellen funds talked to represent that Emily Kincaid

50:02 - about tying together the state's minimum wage rate

50:06 - and a cost of living adjustment.

50:10 - Welcome to our program

50:12 - you're proposing legislation to tie a legislator

50:14 - cost of living adjustment to a minimum wage increase

50:17 - how would this work.

50:20 - So anytime that

50:22 - legislators would get.

50:24 - An annual increase we have legislated so that we're not voting on our own salaries

50:30 - we have legislated

50:31 - an automatic increase to our salaries

50:35 - which comes in December

50:36 - and so

50:38 - whenever we would get an increase

50:40 - if the salaries

50:41 - than the minimum wage would increase by the same percentage

50:45 - how often is the legislator a

50:48 - wage increase.

50:50 - So we get a cola

50:51 - every year and generally comes in in December.

50:56 - How much how was it determined how much of a raise you get every year.

51:00 - The arcola is tied to

51:02 - the rate of inflation so so it goes up by.

51:06 - By.

51:06 - You know sort of

51:07 - a.

51:09 - Around I think two to three percent.

51:11 - On any given year.

51:13 - So if this

51:14 - will this bill were to go into effect by December when the next cola comes through.

51:19 - What would would the minimum wage be increased to then.

51:24 - That I dunno I haven't done the math on it

51:27 - but

51:29 - you know

51:29 - I it would be.

51:31 - I.

51:32 - Think it probably would get it to

51:34 - you know maybe around eight dollars.

51:37 - What inspired you to create this legislation.

51:41 - We had

51:42 - a conversation around.

51:45 - The the legislator cola the fact that we were getting a raise

51:49 - and

51:49 - and and the fact that the minimum wage in

51:52 - Pennsylvania has been stagnant for twenty years

51:56 - and the last time it was raised it was because it was raised at the federal level not

52:00 - because Pennsylvania actually raised the wage

52:03 - and every state that touches us including west Virginia

52:06 - has a higher minimum wage than we do so

52:09 - it was a conversation about you know

52:11 - if.

52:12 - We as legislators get an annual raise because we recognize that

52:18 - the cost of living increases year over year

52:21 - than that people of Pennsylvania who are

52:23 - paying our salaries should get a raise as well.

52:26 - Representative Ronnie green is co-sponsoring this legislation with you

52:30 - how did she get involved.

52:32 - So Ronnie green has been championing increasing

52:35 - the minimum wage for her entire legislative career

52:38 - so when I had this idea about trying to tie it to two our cost of living adjustments

52:43 - she was the first person that I thought about as as

52:46 - you know partnering with

52:48 - two to work on this because this has really been

52:50 - you know her baby and and and her

52:53 - issue that she's been championing

52:55 - what have you heard from your constituents regarding this bill.

53:00 - It it's definitely gotten a lot of

53:02 - attention I think people are really interested in

53:05 - you know how it would work and and also just.

53:10 - You know what the what the appetite is

53:12 - when it comes to to passing legislation like this in in our divided state legislature

53:18 - and I think that

53:19 - regardless of the conversation of of doing

53:23 - a a more immediate increase overall for for the minimum wage

53:28 - I think it's really important that we make sure that the minimum wage increases

53:33 - with the cost of living

53:35 - and

53:35 - so my bill while not necessarily

53:39 - increasing the the the

53:40 - initial minimum wage

53:42 - would at least tie it to add you know

53:45 - the cost of living increases that we as legislators get

53:49 - so that there would be an annual increase

53:51 - and and we wouldn't have to worry about

53:53 - waiting and

53:55 - debating and fighting for another twenty years

53:57 - before the people of Pennsylvania get a raise

54:00 - lastly what have you heard from your colleagues in the house about this bill.

54:05 - It's still early

54:06 - so so we haven't really talked about it a lot but you know we in the house have

54:12 - passed now I think four different minimum wage proposals

54:16 - to increase the minimum wage and get paid that people in Pennsylvania raise

54:20 - and so I think that this is

54:23 - you know another option that we could I'd be sending

54:25 - to the senate of of look even if you don't want to

54:29 - give an initial increase

54:32 - this is a way for the people of Pennsylvania who pay our salaries

54:36 - to get a raise as well

54:38 - and

54:39 - I I don't see how anybody who who takes this

54:43 - cola that we get as as legislator hers could say

54:46 - well I deserve this but but

54:48 - you know my constituents don't

54:50 - so I'm I'm hoping that at least you know spurs the conversation that this is

54:54 - something that we can be doing to give

54:57 - people a you know a little bit of a break now and and moving forward

55:01 - it's something that's predictable

55:04 - and and business says can account for it

55:07 - year over year that they know

55:09 - that it will go up by a certain amount

55:11 - and they know what what that's going to be so they can

55:14 - plan for it and and you know if the criticism of increasing the minimum wage is

55:20 - that it's going to hurt businesses

55:21 - this is a way to help businesses be able to plan accordingly.

55:25 - Representative Emily Kincaid thank you for joining us.

55:28 - Thank you.

55:30 - Thanks to Ellen for that interview before we go

55:34 - here's a reminder about all the issues

55:37 - that will focus on funding for children and youth services

55:40 - with Chris

55:41 - kirschner

55:42 - executive director

55:43 - of the children's advocacy centers

55:46 - of Pennsylvania

55:47 - she'll be here Wednesday at seven pm.

55:50 - That said for the pcn capital preview I'm Larry Casper thanks for watching.