00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by customers

00:04 - bank.

00:16 - Welcome to the PC and Capital preview.

00:18 - I'm Larry Casper.

00:20 - Today we'll discuss the legislative agenda in the Senate.

00:25 - But first we're joined by Harrison Kam, senior reporter

00:28 - at City and State Pennsylvania.

00:30 - Welcome to our program.

00:32 - Thanks for having me.

00:33 - Harrison, you filed a story about the NFL

00:36 - coming to Pittsburgh to recruit new talent.

00:39 - What was the level of excitement anticipating this?

00:44 - It was it was years in the making in Pittsburgh.

00:46 - So a lot of folks in western PA were super excited

00:50 - to be able to host and also just kind of be in the football spotlight,

00:55 - knowing the amount of football history within western Pennsylvania.

01:00 - It was a big event for everybody.

01:02 - Let's talk about the draft itself, just for a minute.

01:05 - My understanding is that it's supposed to improve competition.

01:09 - How does the draft do that?

01:11 - Yeah, the

01:12 - technical, typically the the worst teams, get the best picks,

01:17 - so they get their pick of the top college talents and,

01:22 - and then through the course of the three days, hundreds of players are picked,

01:26 - to potentially build up these rosters.

01:29 - For next season.

01:30 - How was Pittsburgh and the venue selected?

01:34 - That was a years long bidding process.

01:37 - I spoke with folks from Pittsburgh.

01:39 - They had visited numerous previous host cities

01:42 - like Detroit and Nashville and Kansas City.

01:45 - They were in talks with all of them in the NFL,

01:48 - to learn about the bidding process and then to ultimately get their own

01:53 - and learn how to put on such a, a massive event, over a three day span.

01:59 - Now, typically, Harrison, about how many fans attend an event like this?

02:04 - Yeah.

02:05 - The, the folks in Pittsburgh were anticipating anywhere

02:08 - from 500,000 to 700,000 over the span of those three days.

02:12 - But the reports on on Monday came in that they broke the record.

02:17 - Pittsburgh drew in more than 800,000.

02:20 - I think the final number was 805,000 fans,

02:24 - which broke Detroit's record of 775 from from two years ago.

02:29 - So how much Steeler representation,

02:32 - how much, Steeler representation was seen in downtown Pittsburgh?

02:37 - Yeah, there was black and gold everywhere, as you can imagine.

02:40 - Steelers fans left and right.

02:43 - Not to say that there weren't a fair share of, fans from every other

02:47 - team, too.

02:48 - I could say anecdotally that I think I saw all 32 teams

02:52 - represented in one way, shape or form.

02:55 - And, there was a fair share of, Eagles fans to a lot of Philadelphia.

02:59 - And Kelly Green was was in the crowd, too.

03:02 - Now, what happened at the NFL draft that would be of particular interest

03:06 - to Steeler fans?

03:08 - The Steelers were able to

03:10 - pick up, a couple of really nice players to, to keep building.

03:14 - They picked up the Penn State quarterback, Drew Eller.

03:17 - That was a kind of a surprise.

03:19 - And where a local kid from central PA,

03:22 - or from at least in the Penn State area, gets to to stay in P.A..

03:25 - Harrison, let's consider the economic impact of an event like this.

03:29 - What did the city of Pittsburgh

03:31 - do to get ready for thousands of football fans coming in?

03:35 - Yeah, this was, as I mentioned, years in the making.

03:38 - There was tons of public investment that came into renovating parts

03:42 - of not only downtown Pittsburgh, but North Shore and around the stadiums.

03:46 - Where the event was mainly held.

03:49 - There was also tons of, funds

03:52 - put in between the county local government and state government,

03:57 - to help bolster, you know, security and contracting

04:01 - and all the businesses involved.

04:03 - So they were really trying to make sure that the economic benefits

04:06 - were widespread.

04:08 - Try to give us the feel for the atmosphere for the fans who are visiting this event

04:12 - and what kind of events were set up, around it and events

04:16 - that were, of course, trying to exploit the draft as much as possible?

04:20 - Yeah, there were NFL experiences,

04:22 - both by the stadium.

04:27 - Yeah,

04:28 - there were NFL experiences, both, by the stadium

04:30 - and in downtown Pittsburgh, where fans could meet legends.

04:35 - See trophies and Super Bowl rings and also do their little own shot at,

04:41 - football practice, kicking field goals and running sprints.

04:44 - And outside of that, they had plenty of major performances

04:50 - and the newly renovated Market Square area in, downtown

04:54 - Pittsburgh was particularly popular and getting people and businesses involved.

04:59 - Now, you mentioned a minute ago

05:01 - that public funds were used from state government, around this event.

05:05 - So I wonder what those funds accomplished.

05:08 - You did mention security.

05:09 - That would be an obvious thing.

05:10 - Anything else?

05:12 - Yeah, like I just mentioned, Market Square was newly renovated.

05:15 - It was a pedestrian friendly, walkway

05:18 - for for businesses to get a lot of foot traffic.

05:22 - Most of downtown in the area leading to the stadiums by Roberto Clemente.

05:27 - Bridge was all shut down to traffic.

05:30 - So it was a very, pedestrian friendly area

05:33 - that, had been boosted up, particularly for that weekend.

05:37 - Well, now, with the NFL draft behind us,

05:40 - is there any way to gauge the success of this event?

05:43 - What did the city have to say?

05:45 - After the fans filed out of Pittsburgh?

05:48 - Yeah, the city was,

05:49 - very happy with how everything went down.

05:53 - They're still looking into final numbers, but estimates going into the weekend

05:57 - predicted that, hotels and restaurants would get up to

06:01 - a month of total sales just for those three days.

06:04 - I talked to a couple of business owners and said they were getting, at least,

06:09 - you know, two weeks ahead in their revenue.

06:12 - Maybe up to a month, as as estimates were.

06:15 - But overall, it was a great experience for everyone involved.

06:19 - Harrison can from city and state, Pennsylvania, thank you very much.

06:25 - Thanks for having me.

06:26 - More of the PCN capital preview after a short break.

06:32 - Welcome back.

06:33 - Our guest today, our Senate minority leader Jay.

06:36 - Costa and Senate Majority Leader Joe Padman.

06:40 - Gentlemen, welcome to our program. Thanks. Thanks, Larry.

06:43 - A political violence is in the news again with a man

06:46 - charged with trying to assassinate President Trump at the white House.

06:49 - Correspondents Dinner on Saturday.

06:52 - Last year, Governor Shapiro's house was firebombed.

06:56 - And now, Treasurer Stacey Garrity says she will not pay

07:01 - for security upgrades at the governor's private residence.

07:05 - How might lawmakers get involved in this dispute?

07:09 - Well, Larry, as you pointed out,

07:10 - this is an unprecedented time for political violence at all levels.

07:15 - And it's very scary situation.

07:17 - Obviously, with the governor went through was terrible and tragic,

07:21 - and he and his family need to be properly protected.

07:24 - I would just point out that we've invested about $30 million

07:28 - of taxpayer funds in the official state residents here in Harrisburg.

07:32 - And so the real question is, how do we balance?

07:36 - Safety and security with the taxpayers making an investment in a private home?

07:41 - Obviously, the governor's not going to be governor forever.

07:45 - Future governors

07:46 - will be coming along figuring out that proper balance is really important.

07:49 - And I think it would behoove all of us to have a proper protocol in place

07:54 - to manage these kinds of unfortunate circumstances in the future.

07:58 - As far as you can tell, Senator Costa, is there anything in place

08:01 - now that resembles a protocol?

08:03 - Well, I can't speak to that, but what I can tell you

08:05 - is that you refer to it as a firebombing. I think it was more than that.

08:07 - I think it was a firebombing.

08:08 - And then we had an individual

08:10 - who went into the residence and tried to kill our governor and his family,

08:13 - much more significant than just a fire bomb.

08:15 - That being said, I do think that we have to take appropriate steps

08:19 - and find our right balance.

08:20 - I believe when we believe that

08:22 - that balance includes working to make sure the governor's residence is protected.

08:26 - He had nowhere else to live but back in his home

08:27 - and his home during that period of time, and it was appropriate for the state

08:31 - police, in my view, to come in and make those recommendations

08:35 - for modifications that need to be made to provide that safety and security,

08:39 - as we know.

08:40 - Just recently, a number of governors, former governors, Democrats, Republicans

08:44 - all came forward and said that it's appropriate, they feel, to be able

08:47 - to protect the private residence of a particular governor in this case.

08:51 - And with the nature of this political violence that goes on right now,

08:54 - I think it was appropriate

08:56 - as it relates to the legalities that have been raised

08:57 - and the reason why the Treasurer's simply not paying the bill.

09:00 - I think it's wrong.

09:01 - I think it should be paid.

09:03 - And I think the state police acted upon legal authority within the procurement

09:07 - code to make emergency expenditures along those lines.

09:11 - So I think that this is something that should not be withheld.

09:14 - It should be paid, and I'm hopeful that it gets done soon.

09:17 - Now, I understand

09:17 - the expenses of the private residence are amounting to about $1 million.

09:21 - That's my understanding here, right?

09:23 - That's our understanding as well.

09:24 - And again, the key question is how do you go through a procurement process.

09:28 - How do you make capital investments in what is a private home.

09:32 - And that private home will be there after the governor's term expires.

09:37 - And so the question is

09:38 - when you make a taxpayer funded investment in a private facility,

09:43 - what is the appropriate way to go through that process?

09:46 - So let's further consider the Treasurer's

09:49 - authority or responsibility when it comes to this matter.

09:52 - Again, she is declining to make these payments

09:55 - for security improvements at the governor's private residence.

09:58 - So what do we know about the extent of the authority of the treasurer?

10:02 - Is she within the parameters of her job?

10:06 - As far as we can tell?

10:08 - Well, the treasurer is essentially our fiscal watchdog,

10:10 - and she has a responsibility to ensure that payments being invoiced

10:15 - are or payments for work that was done appropriately and correctly.

10:21 - And in this case, under the guise of the procurement code,

10:24 - which is what puts all the parameters in place for bidding and contracting,

10:29 - and ensuring that when taxpayer dollars

10:31 - are used on any project, they're used in an inappropriate manner.

10:35 - I don't think she has the authority

10:36 - or should have the authority to withhold payments.

10:38 - I think it was very clear through the procurement code,

10:40 - the emergency procedures that the state placed a recommendation based upon

10:44 - an assessment that was done in terms of vulnerability assessment.

10:47 - I think it should be paid. And I'm

10:50 - fearful.

10:51 - And my statements have been that

10:52 - I think this is more of a political issue than anything else.

10:54 - That's my personal view.

10:56 - So do you think some kind of legislation will be created

10:59 - and it'll end up on your desk in the coming weeks or months?

11:03 - I think some sort of legislative framework behooves all of us.

11:07 - If for no other reason to make sure there's a protocol in place,

11:11 - if this has to be addressed in the future, if a future governor comes in

11:16 - and there needs to be investments

11:19 - made in his, his or her private home,

11:22 - some entities should have the ability

11:25 - to at least evaluate that, to ensure that it's the right

11:29 - and necessary improvements, again, to somebody's private home.

11:33 - We're not talking about the official state residence,

11:35 - which the taxpayers already provide for the governor and his family.

11:39 - We're talking about a private home.

11:42 - You know, if we address it legislatively, it cannot be something

11:44 - that's been recently proposed, some type of a task force or commission.

11:48 - I think we have to act quickly and timely.

11:50 - You can't sit around and wait for a task force to get together and evaluate

11:53 - what needs to be done.

11:54 - That's why they're emergency provisions

11:56 - in a procurement code and other places along those lines.

11:58 - So if we are going to do something legislatively, it can't be this,

12:02 - this long winded, task force of some sort

12:05 - that's going to contemplate it for a period of time.

12:07 - We're going to have to act quickly.

12:08 - And these situations, and that's what needs to be done.

12:10 - So whatever we do needs to give quick authority to someone or something,

12:13 - some group to make that decision.

12:15 - Well, here's an interesting news item we just learned about yesterday.

12:19 - All the living governors have weighed in on this situation

12:23 - and say that, Shapiro's safety should be a priority.

12:28 - And what do you think of the, all the governors coming out and saying,

12:32 - well, of course, his safety should be a priority.

12:34 - That's never been a question.

12:35 - And again, that's why we've invested over $30 million in the official residence

12:40 - here in Harrisburg.

12:41 - I believe the detail for he and his family has been expanded greatly.

12:45 - We recognize that elected officials at all levels

12:48 - are under threats that have been unprecedented.

12:52 - And so that's not the question.

12:53 - It's again, ensuring the taxpayer

12:55 - dollars are being used to the highest and best use and understanding

12:59 - the appropriate delineation between investments and private properties

13:04 - that are not owned by the taxpayer versus taxpayer

13:08 - owned entities, like the official state residence in Harrisburg.

13:12 - And what kind of improvements have been made to the official residence

13:15 - in Harrisburg?

13:16 - Obviously, we don't know about some of them

13:17 - for security reasons, but there are some obvious,

13:20 - things that can be observed if you drive by the mansion.

13:23 - I think observing the obvious is enough to say it's not for me to talk

13:27 - about what upgrades have occurred in that residence.

13:31 - But what we do know is, as it relates to the benefit

13:33 - that theoretically could come to the shapiros,

13:35 - it's not like they build an addition to their home or added,

13:39 - you know, two car garage in a room upstairs or whatever.

13:41 - These were primarily security measures to protect the family,

13:46 - and primarily most of the resources utilized were probably

13:49 - the cost of labor to be able to do that, to put that into place.

13:53 - It's not like we, as I said, add an addition to their home.

13:55 - That's what I think it's going to be important for people to understand.

13:58 - And this is the residents in Harrisburg.

13:59 - We're talking. So I apologize. I'm torn about yeah.

14:01 - We don't want to get confused with the official governor's

14:03 - residence in Harrisburg and the private home,

14:05 - which is the subject of this recent dispute

14:08 - about official residence is not a question is not in question.

14:11 - Right.

14:12 - All right, gentlemen, thanks very much for that update.

14:14 - Let's move on to the budget.

14:17 - And that's going to be due at the end of June.

14:19 - And the House passed a budget that supports the governor's

14:23 - $53.5 billion spend figure.

14:26 - So in the surface of that, how does that look to the majority?

14:30 - Well, from our perspective, I appreciate the fact

14:32 - the House sent us a budget vehicle so quickly.

14:36 - It's real easy to figure out what you want to spend.

14:38 - The real problem is then figuring out how to pay for it.

14:42 - Now, in the past, we have dealt with the governor

14:45 - in the House Democrat majority in a very difficult negotiation.

14:50 - Typically, the House Democrats don't acquiesce

14:53 - to whatever the governor proposes.

14:55 - This time they did.

14:56 - So that to me, tells us that our negotiating partner at

14:59 - this point is with the governor, and we'll see what we can do.

15:03 - But at the end of the day, it spends too much.

15:06 - And most importantly, what the House sent us, there's no way to pay the bill.

15:10 - And that's the big question. Unlike our friends

15:13 - at the federal government, we have to balance our budget.

15:16 - We cannot print money.

15:18 - We have to make sure that this is a balanced product.

15:21 - And right now, what they send us is nowhere near balanced.

15:23 - And my understanding from speaker McClinton, we had it on last week,

15:26 - is that the budget that was passed by the House is a mirror reflection

15:30 - of what the governor wants, right? Center.

15:32 - That is correct.

15:33 - And I think

15:34 - the governor laid out a plan in which to pay for that, to cover those expenses.

15:38 - And I think that's a good starting point for in terms of conversations

15:41 - going forward.

15:42 - I do think, though, the best way to move this whole process forward

15:45 - would be five party meetings, which we've advocated for in the past.

15:48 - I think it'd be great for the majority leader to speak with the governor, but

15:52 - I think at the end of the day, all of us need to move forward in that conversation.

15:55 - I think that's what's going to be important.

15:57 - The Pittsburgh Tribune review reported that the House

16:00 - passed this budget at the earliest date in ten years.

16:04 - And, Senator Pittman, you just touched on that a couple of minutes ago.

16:07 - What about you, Senator Costa? What's the message?

16:09 - What's the significance you get out of that?

16:11 - Well, I think the significance is we want to get moving quickly,

16:14 - and we want to make sure

16:15 - that we reach the constitutional required, budget passed on June 30th.

16:19 - Forces us to be able to get in a room and have these conversations about

16:22 - how we're going to pay for the budget, how we're going to spend it.

16:25 - All those priority, issues,

16:26 - the policy issues are come

16:28 - along with that, I think allows us to have the opportunity to do that.

16:31 - It gives us

16:31 - plenty of time to get done by June 30th, but I think people want us to do.

16:34 - My understanding about the governor's budget or the House

16:37 - budget, again, they're basically the same thing.

16:39 - The increase, represented there about 6%.

16:43 - So back to you, Senator Costa.

16:44 - How do you justify an increase of 6%?

16:47 - Well, I think we look at some of the items that are being talked about.

16:49 - The biggest item, I believe, is going to be the education space

16:52 - with respect to the adequacy program and tax equity program and,

16:56 - that that account in its case has been accounts

16:58 - for a significant portion of that,

17:00 - as well as human service costs associated with the cost drivers there as well.

17:04 - So, I mean, these are these are things that need to be done

17:06 - as we go forward in our view, and that's why we're advocating for them.

17:09 - That's why we have such a higher percentage.

17:11 - But at the end of the day, it remains to be seen where we end up at.

17:14 - We've been talking about minimum wage a lot here at PC,

17:17 - and certainly there's a lot of interest in that in the legislature.

17:20 - The House passed a bill that would raise the minimum wage from the current

17:23 - $7.25 an hour to $15 an hour.

17:27 - And how does the majority feel about that in the Senate?

17:30 - There continues

17:31 - to be a real disconnect from my vantage point on this minimum wage debate.

17:35 - Let's be very clear.

17:37 - Whether it's 725 an hour or $15 an hour, that is not a family sustaining wage.

17:42 - And we have been arguing for years that our focus is on

17:46 - maximum wage, family sustaining jobs.

17:49 - That's the key element.

17:51 - The minimum wage was not designed as a family sustaining wage.

17:55 - From our vantage point, that needs to be our focus.

17:58 - We've made it very clear that we're willing to have

18:00 - a conversation about some reasonable increase in the minimum wage.

18:04 - But quite frankly, the House Democrats are fixated on $15 an hour.

18:09 - They seem to view anything under $15 an hour as a concession

18:13 - that the last time I checked, the minimum wage is still 725 an hour.

18:17 - If they want to have

18:18 - a reasonable conversation about something that has a balance that addresses

18:23 - nonprofits and small businesses, we're willing to have that conversation.

18:27 - But my sense is that the advocates and many in the House in particular,

18:31 - just want to use this

18:32 - as a political talking point and not actually get something done on it.

18:36 - So the senator is saying that even $15

18:38 - an hour is not a family sustaining wage anyway.

18:41 - Senator, it's not. But let's be clear.

18:43 - I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of families out there

18:45 - who rely upon a minimum wage as their family sustaining wage.

18:49 - And that's what we're trying to address with regard to increasing

18:51 - the minimum wage.

18:52 - You know, the proposals that have been come across from the House

18:55 - to the Senate have been around 11, 13 to 15 over a period of years.

18:58 - It's not like we're going to double it overnight.

19:00 - So we need to be sensitive to that as well.

19:02 - But I do think that we have more work to do along those lines.

19:04 - Certainly jobs that are creating jobs are going to pay a lot more than $15

19:08 - an hour is imperative for us to be able to

19:10 - sustain our communities and our families.

19:12 - But at the end of the day,

19:13 - the first step we need to take, in our view, is an increase in minimum wage

19:16 - to some plan to get to $15 over a couple of years.

19:19 - Now, in addition to the House bill going to $15 an hour by 2029,

19:24 - my understanding is in 2030, a Cola

19:27 - a cost of living adjustment is included too.

19:30 - Senator Costa, maybe you can expand that. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense.

19:33 - So we're not faced with the situation of having to come back,

19:35 - you know, 13 or 14 years later and try to increase the minimum wage,

19:38 - having a cost of living adjustment.

19:40 - And we get a cost of living increase.

19:41 - I don't see any reason why our minimum wage shouldn't be tied to the same thing.

19:45 - So, Senator Pittman, the remark you'd put on the record recently about potential

19:49 - to find a middle ground on minimum wage, elaborate on that.

19:53 - So certainly middle ground implies that you're willing

19:55 - to raise the minimum wage, but it might be a question of how much.

19:58 - That's what I get out of it.

19:59 - It's certainly a question of of how much.

20:02 - There's also the the issue of what's called the tip wage.

20:06 - The, the Cola element is interesting, but the real question is

20:10 - where does it start? I look at Ohio.

20:12 - The governor likes to talk about Ohio a lot and laments

20:16 - that we lose to them all the time.

20:18 - But Ohio has an interesting model.

20:20 - It has a minimum wage with a Cola index, and it now there

20:24 - increases more modest than what the House Democrats have passed.

20:29 - That could well be a model.

20:31 - But again, I just we've had this conversation for three years.

20:34 - I've signaled a willingness to come to the table and have a compromise on it,

20:38 - but I think it's more of a political talking point than it is

20:41 - something of substance

20:43 - that individuals across the building actually want to achieve.

20:47 - Senator Costa, my understanding is that minimum wage is one of several points

20:50 - in a plan that, Senate Democrats are calling the affordability action plan.

20:56 - And so we've talked about minimum wage.

20:58 - But let's get into

20:59 - some other aspects of this plan, namely one that has to do with housing.

21:03 - Governor Shapiro said that's a priority.

21:05 - His but refresh me on what he wants to do.

21:08 - So a couple things.

21:09 - One, I think he recognize that we need

21:10 - about 350,000 housing units over the next ten years or so.

21:14 - On the pace that we're going, we're probably going to come up

21:16 - about 185,000 housing units short.

21:19 - We need to take steps to be able to construct housing to allow people

21:21 - the opportunity to have a pathway, certainly a pathway to purchase so many.

21:24 - But having the the surplus of homes to be able to put people into.

21:28 - So at the end of the day, what he's proposing

21:29 - the most significant thing is this critical infrastructure fund.

21:32 - The governor wants to put together $1 billion over the next four years.

21:35 - And investment,

21:36 - creating, building homes and fixing homes up

21:38 - and doing those type of things in a variety of different ways.

21:41 - One of them is certainly infusing resources to be able

21:43 - to make it easier for folks to be able to get a mortgage, to be able to,

21:46 - but you have to have the housing stock to be able to do that.

21:49 - There's other things in the housing plan that we want to work on

21:52 - as it relates to items, similar to what we've been doing with regard

21:56 - to the mixed use tax credit, for example, and other types of what we call

21:59 - the sites program, but have a housing sites program, for example,

22:02 - to give support to local governments, for example, out of this fund,

22:05 - to be able to allow them to take vacant properties

22:07 - and create the infrastructure needs to be there

22:09 - to be able to present a ready to go place for people to build homes.

22:14 - These are the type of things we're looking at.

22:15 - Certainly rental assistance is going to be some of that conversation as well.

22:18 - The governor has a handful of programs and looking at rental assistance,

22:22 - capping application fees, for example, sealing eviction records.

22:25 - Those are some of the things I think we need to go forward on

22:27 - to make it easier for people to be able to have access to housing,

22:30 - and that's going to be important to us.

22:31 - And that's part of our a major part of our affordability plan,

22:34 - along with the minimum wage and along with little utility assistance

22:37 - and things of that nature.

22:38 - Senator Pittman, what do you think of some of the goals that were just enumerated?

22:41 - Well, there's certainly laudable goals, but we have to also remember that,

22:45 - for example, if you want to build a house, you need a permit to build it.

22:50 - And so we've got to also make sure

22:52 - that government in place to build it too, you got to have a place to build.

22:55 - So we also got to make sure that government gets out of the way

22:58 - at the right time and allows individuals to build homes.

23:02 - But then you also have the question of once you build the home, you got to afford

23:06 - the ability to live in that home, right?

23:08 - So that means that your utility bills, all of those things need to be affordable.

23:14 - That's why we have for years, as a caucus

23:17 - fight against things such as the Reggie electricity tax.

23:20 - That's why we put bills in place to eliminate the gross receipts

23:24 - tax on electricity, to cut the personal income tax, even to cut the gas tax.

23:29 - So we're very attuned to this affordability conversation.

23:33 - The differences our side of the aisle is actually taken action

23:37 - to address affordability.

23:38 - We don't just talk about it.

23:39 - So the affordability matrix of this whole thing is much more dynamic

23:44 - than just looking for areas of specific subsidy.

23:48 - We have to make sure at the end of the day,

23:50 - people can afford to live in their homes,

23:52 - and ultimately that's through maximum wage, family sustaining jobs.

23:56 - Just for a

23:56 - minute, let's return to the affordability action plan.

23:59 - The Senate Democrats, Senator.

24:01 - And so we talked about minimum wage

24:03 - housing are some of the points, some of the goals to this plan.

24:06 - And then the other one has to do with the governor's lightning plan.

24:09 - That seems to come up intermittently here at PCN,

24:11 - but we're due for a refresher on the goals of that program.

24:14 - So the governor's lightning

24:15 - plan had a number of components to it had a press component to it,

24:18 - which would create some opportunities in the energy space.

24:22 - The Pacer program as well, which would be a cap and invest type of a program.

24:26 - And, and finally, you have the tax credit program,

24:29 - which I think is the most significant as it relates to creating,

24:32 - you know, family sustaining opportunities and affordability issues.

24:36 - You know, the tax credit program is something

24:38 - we did a number of years ago, was very restrictive.

24:40 - We weren't able to do it.

24:42 - People didn't take advantage of it.

24:43 - But now we're looking for a redesign, so to speak.

24:46 - And one aspect of that would be allowing to make tax credit investments,

24:50 - to stimulate and encourage electric electricity or power generation.

24:54 - That's one of the things we're looking at being able to do.

24:56 - And the one way would be to jet fuel, for example, in Western PA,

25:00 - but other types of ways in which we can do it by investing and helping

25:03 - support the utilization, are a creation of an electric generation.

25:08 - Let's change the subject to chat box safety.

25:10 - And certainly parents are concerned about that.

25:13 - And I understand your chamber passed a bill

25:16 - that would require public schools and colleges to label.

25:18 - Oh, no, sorry, I'm I went on to the wrong thing.

25:21 - Chatbot safety.

25:22 - The Senate passed a bill that protects kids from harmful AI technology.

25:27 - Senator Pittman, can you, elaborate on some of those points?

25:32 - This has been a time of great evolution whenever it comes to technology,

25:36 - technological advancements and what our children are faced with as they grow up.

25:41 - You know, I, my my parents always said to me it was a lot easier growing up

25:45 - when I was your age, when I was a kid, and I always rolled my eyes at them.

25:49 - And now I look at my kids and I say, it was a lot easier

25:52 - when I was your age growing up, because we have so many challenges

25:56 - that face our children these days,

25:58 - and it's one of the areas where Senator Tracy Penicuik has really taken the lead.

26:01 - As the chair of our Communications and Technology committee.

26:05 - One of the things we've worked on in a very bipartisan way to try to make sure

26:09 - the tools are in place to protect our children,

26:13 - but also to keep up with it, is fast as it all evolves.

26:17 - It is a challenge for us to make sure that our laws evolve with it,

26:21 - and we have to be very precise and careful about them, and make sure that we also

26:25 - don't have unintended consequences that come along with those development,

26:31 - starting perhaps with the chat bot having to admit that it's not human.

26:35 - Correct.

26:36 - And who would have ever thought

26:37 - we would have had that kind of a conversation before?

26:40 - I think what's important here is that we do have

26:42 - this is a very serious matter, as Senator Pittman indicated.

26:45 - And I do think we have to take it seriously.

26:46 - It needs to be done in a bipartisan way.

26:48 - I know the senator, Nick Miller, I think, is working in conjunction

26:51 - with the chairwoman

26:52 - to be able to develop a strategy in terms of how we address that,

26:55 - but it's extremely important that we get it

26:56 - right and do it balance of a more importantly,

26:59 - prevent the unintended consequences that could come from not doing it properly.

27:03 - All right. Thank you. Gentlemen, I'm going to give you a break.

27:05 - Just for a minute, while we look at program notes for here on PC in,

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27:30 - They'll be here Thursday at 7 p.m..

27:33 - Pennsylvania's constitution will be the subject of a town

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28:25 - All right.

28:25 - We're talking with, the leaders in the Senate here today,

28:29 - and we just, we're talking about chat bot safety.

28:32 - Now, let's move over to another subject.

28:34 - This would be the so-called save women's sports bill.

28:37 - And my understanding is it would require public schools and colleges to label

28:41 - sports teams male, female or coed.

28:45 - And what's been happening there?

28:47 - Well, just makes total sense.

28:49 - We talked a lot about this on the floor last week.

28:52 - Title nine, for example.

28:53 - Title nine is over 50 years old, and that entire premise was to ensure

28:58 - equality and athletic opportunity between males and also females.

29:04 - And so we think it's very important to make sure that that standard

29:09 - remains within athletics, particularly student athletics.

29:13 - And frankly, we by and large, have just implemented,

29:17 - and emulated what the International Olympic Committee

29:20 - enacted just a short time ago to protect the integrity of the Olympic Games.

29:26 - And so we think it's very common sense.

29:28 - It's passed with bipartisan support,

29:30 - and we hope that the House would actually consider taking it up.

29:34 - Senator Costa, where is your caucus stand on this?

29:36 - So in large part, our caucus, recognized that,

29:39 - we had already passed this piece of legislation, a year earlier.

29:42 - And unfortunately for some, it's not gone beyond that.

29:46 - I think at the end of the day,

29:47 - we recognize there are more important things

29:49 - that we should be doing with our Senate time.

29:51 - Certainly talking about affordability plan,

29:52 - we talked about and advancing measures that have come over from the House.

29:56 - I know that, you know, this is a measure that,

29:59 - Senate Republicans feel very important about as a priority.

30:02 - And that's the reason why they did it a second time.

30:04 - But we were criticized for raising that issue that we should be

30:08 - doing other things and that we should not be complaining

30:11 - about measures that come over from the House repeatedly.

30:14 - I will point out that

30:16 - the things that come over from the House to the Senate that don't get acted upon,

30:20 - are things that are really impacting the quality of life for people,

30:23 - individuals like, for example, the minimum wage has come over many times.

30:26 - It's been discussed,

30:27 - but other measures that are impacting people's lives and helping people address

30:31 - affordability and addressing other matters

30:33 - are the ones that languished in the Senate.

30:34 - That's why we felt strongly that this was something we've already done.

30:37 - There's been a better use of our time, and that's what our position is.

30:40 - Again, knowing that the House is not going to be taking it up.

30:43 - And clearly

30:44 - the governor is not going to sign it to our knowledge,

30:46 - some of what the previous governor did when this bill passed,

30:48 - when Republicans tried to pass it last time, so I can assure you,

30:52 - there are some student athletes out there who consider this a quality of life issue

30:57 - and have been negatively impacted

30:58 - by the consequences of having men compete in women's sports.

31:02 - So we can have that conversation.

31:04 - And let me let me also

31:06 - say about affordability, I mean, welcome to the party on affordability.

31:10 - We've been talking about and acting on affordability for seven years now.

31:14 - And I assure you, we will give you more opportunities to have your talk

31:18 - in your votes match whenever it comes to affordability in the weeks ahead.

31:21 - Well, we look forward to those conversations

31:23 - as we go forward, because I can tell you that the measures that we put forward

31:26 - as it relates to affordability during those years

31:28 - and over the course of many years, simply don't get acted upon.

31:31 - And many of the measures have come over from the House.

31:33 - And, of course, you know, Democrats have only been in the House for four years.

31:36 - The previous three years of the affordability.

31:38 - Things weren't taking place at that point in time.

31:40 - We've taken great steps to be able to address people's affordability issues,

31:43 - where we introduced legislation towards that.

31:45 - And unfortunately, our measures don't get moving forward in the Senate.

31:48 - But we spent seven years on Reggie.

31:51 - You want to talk about affordability.

31:53 - Reggie was the largest electricity tax ever

31:56 - to hit the consumers of electricity in this commonwealth.

31:59 - And for seven years, our caucus fought to beat that back.

32:04 - And it wasn't until the focus groups told the governor and our friends

32:07 - on the other side of the aisle

32:09 - that it was a real bad idea that they decided to get rid of it.

32:12 - But we had plenty of opportunities to allow affordability

32:16 - to be matched up in terms of a vote to kill the Reggie Electricity tax.

32:20 - And our friends were no where to be found, by and large.

32:23 - Just a couple more questions about the so-called Save women's sports bill.

32:28 - Let's try to get a sense of proportion as far as how many people are affected

32:32 - by this bill.

32:33 - In other words, that anybody, count about

32:36 - how many transgender student athletes are in Pennsylvania?

32:40 - Well, I think if you look at

32:41 - some of the comments, there's the reaction to that in proportion is my point.

32:45 - Well, if you look at the reaction of Senator Martin and Senator Judy Ward

32:50 - and Senator Phillips, really the leads on this issue,

32:53 - they quoted some very specific stats

32:56 - on the impact that men competing in women's sports have had,

33:01 - not just in Pennsylvania, but across the country.

33:04 - I think, Riley Gaines is a perfect example.

33:08 - I think, by their own admission, I think that their press event,

33:11 - they were not able to acknowledge how many people were impacted by this situation.

33:14 - More importantly, we already have rules have been promulgated by the NCAA

33:18 - and the governor's topic.

33:20 - So I think that's sufficient along those lines where the PA doesn't exactly

33:25 - have a stellar track record in this state over the last several decades.

33:28 - So I think codifying it into statues where we need to go,

33:31 - but nevertheless, they have a reputation for being able

33:35 - they promulgate the rules and regulations that the schools have, are governed by.

33:38 - And I think that's what's important here.

33:40 - And just one more question about this bill.

33:42 - Gentlemen, just how much did lawmakers take in consideration,

33:46 - scientific evidence?

33:47 - In other words,

33:47 - I'd like to know more about the debate that took place in your chamber.

33:51 - You said that, Senator Pittman, you said that there was an Olympic precedent.

33:55 - Anyway, that serves in your mind as justification for this.

33:59 - But tell me more about,

34:00 - how science was considered, and actual evidence is what I'm getting at.

34:05 - That has to be.

34:05 - I think the evidence is your birth certificate.

34:08 - You're assigned a gender at birth.

34:11 - We're simply saying that that needs to be adhered

34:14 - to as it relates to student athletics.

34:16 - And the females wouldn't compete in male sports.

34:19 - They're welcome to do so.

34:21 - This is about making sure

34:22 - that female athletes have an equal opportunity to succeed.

34:26 - Just as the title nine was established 50 some years ago for that express purpose.

34:32 - Let's change the subject to a priority of the governor.

34:35 - And he made this clear in his budget speech a couple months ago.

34:38 - It has to do with the statute of limitation on crimes of sexual abuse.

34:43 - That's for victims whose statute of limitations has run out.

34:47 - And the idea is to open a temporary window during which they can sue their abusers.

34:52 - And the governor supports this.

34:54 - The House passed it.

34:55 - And what lies in store and in the majority,

34:58 - I think the real question is why are Democrats so afraid of voter ID?

35:03 - Even John Fetterman thinks the voter ID is a basic and non radical issue.

35:08 - And what we have said very clearly and consistently on statute

35:11 - of limitations is the statute of limitations.

35:14 - And voter ID should be put in front of the voters

35:17 - for consideration to amend our Constitution.

35:20 - It's not our fault Tom Wolfe screwed up the process

35:24 - whenever it came to advertising the question on the ballot.

35:28 - And by the way, when those questions come up,

35:31 - they go through the attorney General's office.

35:33 - So I'm not sure where Governor Shapiro was at the time, either.

35:36 - Missing the advertising of that constitutional question

35:39 - was one of the biggest failures of government

35:43 - that I've certainly seen in my decades.

35:45 - But at the end of the day, we've passed

35:48 - the question of statute of limitations multiple times.

35:51 - We've passed voter ID multiple times.

35:54 - And if the Democrats weren't so afraid of voter ID, this question would have been

35:58 - in front of the voters two years ago and the issue would have been resolved.

36:02 - And frankly, both issues would have been resolved.

36:04 - And so that's why I think Senator Fetterman

36:06 - makes a lot of sense in terms of his mindset of voter ID,

36:10 - and I think that more in his party should take his cue.

36:14 - First of all, I don't

36:15 - think we should be linking linking the, voter identification situation

36:19 - and issue to statute limitations for a sexual abuse of sex abusers.

36:25 - To me, I think they stand alone.

36:26 - And the conversation, regardless of what happened in the past.

36:29 - And it was unfortunate.

36:30 - But since that time, I think during two sessions

36:32 - now we've had language come over to the Senate that's not been addressed.

36:35 - Again, it goes back to the point about the priority

36:38 - of the things that we focus on in the Senate.

36:40 - This is something

36:41 - we should have been done that should've been part of the conversation

36:43 - we had this past week when we were talking about, the Save the Women Act.

36:47 - I think these are the type of things that impact people's lives.

36:50 - And if we're so much concerned about women,

36:52 - this will be one of the things to help address to women,

36:54 - help them heal when they have the opportunity

36:56 - to face their accusers for things that that were done before to them.

36:59 - So to me, they should not be linked at all and voter ID should stand alone on it.

37:03 - I think there's some ideas we think we can meet with on that space,

37:06 - but this is legislation that should be passed by now

37:09 - and give the voters an opportunity to pass it.

37:11 - Voter ID, I do think that there's a

37:13 - there's a place we can find common ground on, but I think at the end of the day,

37:17 - unrelated to the conversation on sex abuse victims,

37:20 - well, let's do to be very clear,

37:21 - those constitutional questions would be distinct and separate.

37:25 - The electorate would have the ability to allow both of those questions

37:29 - to rise and fall on the electorate's decision at the ballot box.

37:34 - And so let's be very clear that both of them can be independently

37:38 - addressed.

37:38 - Our point is, the electorate should have a voice on both of those.

37:42 - And when you talk about election integrity, I'm not sure that

37:45 - ensuring the integrity of our electoral process

37:49 - is is something insignificant and on impactful.

37:53 - We have to have a secure electoral process, and voter ID

37:57 - is the basic, most commonsense way to do it,

38:01 - which is exactly what Senator Fetterman said.

38:04 - I think the issue becomes, what is the nature of the evidence

38:07 - you need to present for voter identification?

38:09 - That was the issue last time when the courts threw it out.

38:11 - One has passed previously, but at the end of the day,

38:13 - and I agree, both of these ballot question should be on the ballot.

38:16 - But they should not be contingent upon one another.

38:18 - Let's run the statute limitations build.

38:20 - Let's run a voter ID bill, separate apart and don't link them.

38:23 - And don't hold one hostage against the other.

38:25 - They wouldn't be contingent on one another.

38:27 - The voters would have a distinct opportunity to make their own decision

38:31 - on both of those questions.

38:32 - And let's let's talk about IDs.

38:35 - I mean, you need an ID to get everywhere.

38:37 - At this point, IDs are ubiquitous.

38:40 - This is not a standard.

38:41 - That is, something that's, unattainable.

38:45 - If you want to go to any kind of a public venue, you want to go on an airplane,

38:50 - you want to get alcohol, you want to get cigarets, you need an ID.

38:54 - Remember, though, gentlemen, this discussion started

38:57 - with the statute of limitations. Let's try to keep our focus there.

38:59 - And I agree with that, Larry.

39:00 - And I think I understand certainly clearly understand

39:02 - that there are two separate ballot questions.

39:04 - But the fact of the matter is,

39:05 - as Senator Pittman linked them together in his comments,

39:07 - as one is contingent upon the other.

39:09 - If we're not going to do a voter ID, we're not going to do statute limitations.

39:12 - And what I got from his comments, and that's not what we should be.

39:15 - We should be voting them separately, unrelated to one another.

39:18 - Well, let's try to learn some more basic things about the statute of limitations.

39:21 - Bill.

39:21 - And if you're in favor of opening a temporary window, by the way,

39:25 - how long should it be open? What's in the bill?

39:27 - I think the bill calls for two years is my recollection.

39:30 - At least that's what historically has been done in the past a two year window.

39:33 - And then it's worth it to.

39:35 - And especially for people who aren't used to thinking in legal terms.

39:38 - Why do we have a statute of limitations for certain crimes anyway?

39:42 - Who cares to comment on that?

39:44 - Well, that was also changed several years ago, statutorily and prospectively.

39:49 - And we keep in mind these are civil claims.

39:51 - And there's a big distinction between a criminal

39:56 - suit or a criminal case and a civil claim.

39:58 - This is compensation for damages.

40:03 - And a lot of times

40:05 - victims, unfortunately, if they are not

40:08 - a victim of an institutional,

40:11 - act, they have nowhere to go.

40:14 - They have nobody to seek recourse with.

40:17 - And so we've been very clear that our Constitution needs to be amended.

40:21 - We've supported that in the past.

40:23 - We voted it multiple times.

40:25 - And again, if the Democrats weren't so afraid of voter ID,

40:28 - this issue would have been resolved over two years ago.

40:31 - Notwithstanding the screw up by the wolf administration, whenever at that point

40:35 - in time it would have been on the ballot and addressed clear back in 2022.

40:40 - So let's talk about energy affordability.

40:42 - And, Senator Pittman, a press release came out of your office

40:45 - that contain news about two power plants in your district.

40:49 - And, what is the news about those power plants?

40:51 - Well, it's significant news.

40:53 - I have the last two coal fired power plants in the Commonwealth,

40:57 - and it's an indication that we need megawatts on the grid.

41:01 - Affordability and in availability go hand in hand.

41:04 - If the megawatts aren't available, they're not going to be affordable.

41:08 - And for decades, we've turned the other way.

41:11 - We have not maximized the use of our God given

41:14 - natural resources to bring base load power to our grid.

41:18 - And now we're paying a price.

41:19 - Consumers are paying the price we need to unleash our energy

41:23 - opportunities, and we are way too late in the game.

41:26 - And so I'm glad the governor has had his epiphany.

41:29 - You know, he spent three years hugging Reggie, the Tom Wolfe electricity tax,

41:34 - only to find out that his focus groups told him it wasn't a real good idea.

41:37 - But now we're behind the curve in terms of having the megawatts

41:41 - brought to the grid to be able to supply the power demands that we have now.

41:46 - Anyone who's watching the news lately knows that data centers

41:50 - need a lot of energy.

41:51 - Were they a factor in keeping these two power plants open in your district?

41:55 - Well, the issue of those two power plants staying open is a factor of the broad

42:01 - based issue of energy consumption.

42:03 - I mean, keep in mind

42:04 - a lot of the proposed data centers out there are just that proposed.

42:08 - They're not actually online consuming electricity.

42:12 - But to me, the key question with data centers is, are you going

42:16 - to bring the supply along with the demand you need?

42:19 - We saw that at Three Mile Island with the restart there.

42:22 - We're seeing it in my backyard.

42:23 - The Homer City Generating Station, where

42:25 - we're going to have the largest natural gas plant in the country.

42:29 - And it's designed to not only supply data centers on site,

42:33 - but to put additional power on the grid and that's the approach we need to take.

42:37 - We have a few minutes left in this segment, gentlemen.

42:40 - So let's consider some potential,

42:42 - revenue sources that have been talked about in the legislature.

42:46 - And that's usually two things that recreational marijuana.

42:49 - Where does that stand right now?

42:50 - Senator Costa, can you tell us briefly?

42:52 - So I think right now,

42:53 - there have been a number of proposals, some, from the House that came over

42:57 - and was also some created in the Senate with some bipartisan members

43:00 - working together.

43:01 - It's a topic that we're ready to talk about,

43:03 - we think is an opportunity

43:04 - for us to be able to generate, revenue that we need in the Commonwealth.

43:09 - And where's the majority stand on that?

43:10 - So we have a wide range of opinions on the issue of recreational marijuana.

43:14 - President Trump has taken some actions over the last several months.

43:18 - My main concern with the recreational marijuana conversation

43:23 - is that we have 26 or so states that have gone

43:26 - in very different directions in terms of how they regulate it.

43:30 - I really think we need some clear direction from the federal government

43:33 - on how best to handle the issue of marijuana usage.

43:38 - It still is at the federal level.

43:40 - A registered narcotic. Keep in mind.

43:43 - And so we have that issue to navigate.

43:45 - And the other thing I will step back on

43:47 - is we already have medical marijuana in Pennsylvania.

43:50 - I do not think that that program has been administered well at all.

43:54 - The Department of Health is a bureaucratic mess

43:57 - that has been proceeding other administrations.

44:00 - So that's not just a reflection of this moment, but I don't think that

44:03 - we've handled the medical marijuana program nearly as well as we should.

44:08 - And that's probably something we should look at tackling first

44:11 - before we go further into the recreational marijuana conversation.

44:16 - Now, how about the other, potential revenue

44:18 - generator often discussed certainly here on PCN

44:22 - is the so-called skill games, these games that resemble, slot machines.

44:27 - And there seems to be a consensus that there should be a tax rate.

44:31 - But then there's all kinds of plans out there as far as the tax rate is concerned.

44:36 - What's the latest Senator cost?

44:37 - So I can tell you that, Senate Democrats support regulating most importantly,

44:42 - the skill games there that are, flooding our communities

44:46 - and allowing our kids, quite frankly, to have the opportunity

44:50 - to participate with them. And that's to me, that's not a good thing.

44:52 - Obviously.

44:53 - And also taxing them an appropriate

44:54 - tax rate that we we deal with our machines and also our slot machines.

44:58 - That's our position going forward.

45:00 - The question becomes, what do we do with the regulations?

45:03 - What do we do with the distribution of the tax revenue?

45:06 - How many machines are we talking about and who's going to be able to,

45:09 - have those machines? Will it be skill games?

45:12 - Will it be slot machines? Will it be?

45:14 - And then how do we work within our communities to make certain

45:16 - that, we have an appropriate distribution

45:19 - along those lines if we're going to get on that path.

45:20 - But we think it's essential.

45:22 - And the question is that what do we do with the revenue

45:24 - we've been advocating for utilizing the revenue in two, three

45:27 - places transit, transportation and a general fund.

45:30 - That's where I think we need to move forward on.

45:32 - And let's not overlook the tax rate itself,

45:34 - because I've heard tax rates anywhere in the single digits, up to 52%.

45:38 - There's a wide range of views on there, but I largely agree with Senator Costa.

45:42 - We need gaming reform regulation to occur.

45:46 - These machines have become ubiquitous.

45:48 - It's frankly become a public safety issue in my opinion.

45:51 - Keep in mind, the state.

45:52 - Supreme Court heard arguments on this back on November 20th.

45:56 - We continue to patiently wait for their decision.

45:59 - The sooner they give us a decision that would be extraordinarily helpful

46:03 - in our conversations.

46:04 - To me, the biggest question is,

46:06 - as you pointed out, the tax rate, I think parity with,

46:10 - the other tax rates that we have in gaming makes a lot of sense.

46:14 - The real question to me, ultimately, is the use of the revenue.

46:18 - And and with our structural deficit in the position that it's in right now,

46:23 - it really, in my opinion, needs to be devoted to the general fund,

46:27 - because at the end of the day, when you look at where we are

46:29 - structurally, we have a significant issue that we have to address.

46:33 - And all of the things that Senator Costa mentioned about

46:36 - uses of sources are, are certainly valid.

46:39 - And we want to address them as well.

46:41 - But, you know, keep in mind, transit is now sitting on 2.4 billion in the bank.

46:47 - The motor license fund is sitting on $3 billion, while

46:50 - the governor's sitting on $5.5 billion of transit

46:53 - and transportation infrastructure funds that aren't being used is beyond me.

46:58 - And so at this point, it seems to me that

47:00 - using those dollars in the general fund is where would be most appropriate.

47:04 - Senator Pittman,

47:04 - I'd like you to expand on a point you made a minute ago about skill games.

47:08 - You said that they're a threat to public safety.

47:10 - Give me an example of what you're talking.

47:11 - We'll look at what happened in Hazelton quite some time ago

47:15 - where a convenience store clerk was murdered.

47:17 - We've had several robberies in our district.

47:20 - We have these parlors that are literally calling themselves casinos,

47:24 - and they're clearly not casinos, but by and large, they're not supervised.

47:29 - And it's become a real issue.

47:30 - And in the strange dynamic

47:32 - in all of this is you have these so-called games of skill,

47:36 - but it seems to me that it has allowed other games to come in to the marketplace

47:41 - as well, that aren't directly affiliated with the previous court

47:45 - rulings on what the other form of, you know, trying to game.

47:49 - It seems to me I'm certainly no expert, at electronic gaming,

47:54 - but the variety of machines out there is what really

47:57 - has caught my attention over the last couple of years.

48:00 - On the safety issue.

48:01 - I agree that it's a concern,

48:02 - and I think it's nothing unusual with respect to gaming.

48:05 - When we did the original Gaming Act back in 2004, we provided resources

48:09 - to the local share accounts, to local municipalities

48:12 - to be able to enhance and take care of, security in and around these facilities.

48:16 - So I think that's something that we need to recognize

48:18 - and needs to be part of that conversation going forward, and enforcement as well,

48:22 - once we get on this path with respect to these places that will ultimately,

48:26 - operate these skill machines,

48:27 - we going to make certain that they're complying with the law

48:30 - and they're not having other machines in those establishments as well.

48:33 - And it needs to be some risk associated if you're going to violate,

48:36 - whatever we end up doing, if you're going to violate it,

48:38 - there needs to be some risk involved in terms of licensing along those lines.

48:41 - And that's going to be another big issue.

48:43 - Who who's going to have access to these machines.

48:45 - There's a lot of questions need to be answered

48:47 - that I think we need to continue to talk about,

48:49 - but it presents an opportunity for revenue to be able to,

48:52 - you know, utilize here in the Commonwealth.

48:53 - I tried to play one of these games the other day, but I didn't have to do it.

48:57 - Yeah, well, then you must not have much skill.

48:59 - Yeah, I lack the skill for skill game.

49:02 - Let's get on.

49:03 - We have just a couple of minutes left in this segment.

49:05 - Let's consider, the budget.

49:07 - We'll go full circle and talk about the budget again.

49:10 - It's due at the end of June.

49:11 - Of course.

49:12 - As you know, last time it wasn't finalized until November.

49:15 - Do you see any obstacles at this early stage that could prevent an

49:20 - on time budget?

49:22 - Well, the biggest obstacle is how to pay the bill.

49:25 - Again, we were sent a spending plan.

49:28 - We were not sent a budget because the revenues don't match the spending.

49:33 - That's going to be the key question at the end of the day.

49:36 - Trust me, nobody enjoys a protracted budgetary impasse.

49:40 - I certainly didn't enjoy it personally, didn't enjoy it professionally, and

49:44 - did not enjoy seeing the negative impacts.

49:46 - School districts didn't like it. So many. Absolutely.

49:49 - And so it is by no means a preferred approach to getting a budget done.

49:54 - But it's one thing to get it done on time, and it's another thing to get it

49:57 - done responsibly.

49:59 - And that's going to be the key balance.

50:01 - As we have seen, June 30th, July 1st, that's the constitutional day.

50:06 - I don't think anybody believes that a few weeks beyond that is detrimental.

50:11 - We all understand that that's happened in the past.

50:14 - I don't think that is a material problem, but we're going to get it done right.

50:18 - That's the key question.

50:19 - Senator Costa, we have about 30s left in this segment.

50:22 - You on the budget.

50:23 - So I think it's imperative that we get in a room

50:25 - and work together to work out our differences.

50:27 - I will say to you, when we had five party meetings back in October and November,

50:31 - sitting across the table from one

50:32 - another with the governor serving as the mediator, so to speak,

50:35 - it was effective because we got it done quickly within that period of time.

50:38 - That's what's essential.

50:39 - Not being able to do that to me would be a barrier to getting done on time.

50:43 - Our guests have been Senate Minority Leader Jay.

50:46 - Costa and Senate Majority Leader Joe Pittman.

50:49 - Gentlemen, thanks for joining us. Thank you.

50:51 - Thank you. Larry.

50:52 - Pickens Ellen Frantz talked about disclosing information

50:56 - about data centers with PA consumer advocate Daryl Lawrence.

51:02 - Welcome to our program.

51:04 - Data centers are starting to pop up in Pennsylvania.

51:06 - For those who are unfamiliar, can you explain how they work?

51:12 - Or I can I can talk to that point.

51:14 - So I will say at the outset that we are

51:18 - my office is directly involved with data centers, moors, how they relate

51:23 - to the public utility companies that we oversee.

51:28 - So not exactly an expert in the area of data centers

51:32 - internal operations, but from my understanding,

51:36 - we we really have two kinds of data centers

51:39 - and the data centers that have been operating here

51:43 - in Pennsylvania, around the country for a long period of time

51:46 - are really the ones that are handling internet traffic.

51:50 - And our emails

51:53 - and voice over internet, phone calls, etc..

51:56 - But there is a second type of data center and potentially more of it.

52:01 - The second type is, data centers

52:04 - that are really concentrated on

52:08 - creating better versions of AI, let's say.

52:12 - So more of, well, what

52:15 - it's generally referred to is generative AI.

52:19 - And those are

52:21 - certainly, in the mix with some of the data centers

52:24 - that we might be seeing coming into Pennsylvania.

52:27 - Now, the Center Square reports that local

52:30 - and municipal governments across the United States have signed

52:33 - non-disclosure agreements in regards to data center, production in their area.

52:38 - Why are they doing this?

52:41 - But we certainly understand that there are

52:44 - intellectual property rights and trade secrets

52:48 - that have to be protected on behalf of the data center developers.

52:53 - But the the lack of transparency and the,

52:57 - I would say, overly broad non-disclosure

53:00 - agreements are not in the public interest,

53:04 - as I'm sure you're aware, you can look at the news any day of the week,

53:08 - and you can see the reports of various boroughs

53:12 - and town halls, about data centers.

53:15 - And there is great public interest.

53:18 - So I think from my office standpoint,

53:21 - transparency is a key issue

53:24 - about how these data centers are going to operate.

53:27 - The amount of energy they use, the amount of water potentially being used,

53:33 - a lot of issues surrounding,

53:35 - you know, the operation itself and how it might impact communities,

53:40 - what our communities or developers or even your office

53:43 - doing to keep local residents safe.

53:46 - As these data centers are being developed.

53:50 - I'm not sure it's safe here.

53:52 - I would say it's certainly it's it's a concern.

53:54 - I'm not sure that it's our primary

53:56 - mission would, but our primary mission is is really

54:00 - is one of our public utilities, whether it be

54:04 - electric or natural gas, water, waste water,

54:07 - if they're going to be building new facilities

54:11 - to connect to data center,

54:14 - we need to make sure that whatever

54:17 - expenses, whatever costs are being encouraged to build

54:21 - those facilities are being charged to the people,

54:25 - which in our view is generally the data center

54:27 - and the developers should be paying for these costs.

54:31 - Lastly, are there any legislative protocols involving,

54:35 - data center reporting that are being worked on?

54:40 - I think there is a very recent, House

54:43 - bill that just passed in the House of Representatives

54:47 - that would require data center owners, developers to report their amount

54:51 - of water usage, energy usage, and and all statistics like that.

54:57 - I know that there are several other legislative movements in place right now

55:04 - that are largely considering how data centers operate

55:09 - within Pennsylvania, whether they pay for their own costs or not.

55:13 - Which is really a paramount concern.

55:15 - The amount of energy that they use is, as I'm sure

55:18 - you know, potentially tremendous.

55:21 - But there are there are many different organizations working on this.

55:27 - My office, the Public Utility Commission,

55:30 - the legislature, certainly the governor's office.

55:33 - So a lot of parties are working on

55:36 - the potential challenges of data centers, but also with an eye towards

55:43 - the possible opportunities for Pennsylvania.

55:47 - Darryl Lawrence, Pennsylvania consumer advocate, thank you for joining us.

55:52 - Absolutely.

55:53 - It's my pleasure.

55:56 - Thanks to Ellen for that interview.

55:59 - Before we go, here's a reminder about the America 250 program

56:03 - that looks at the writing and development of the Declaration of Independence.

56:08 - That's on tomorrow live at 6 p.m..

56:12 - That's it for the PC in Capitol preview.

56:14 - I'm Larry Casper. Thanks for watching.