00:00 - Good afternoon, everyone.

00:01 - I know we're all in like that post-lunch lull a little bit,

00:07 - maybe a little bit too much chicken, little bit too much chocolate.

00:09 - So I'm hopeful that this session will be able to be really engaged

00:14 - on public policy, because public policy is not some abstract thing.

00:18 - And so before we really get into this, I want to allow for our panelists

00:21 - to introduce ourselves. Hello, representative, and see you.

00:24 - And then we'll have everyone introduce themselves.

00:28 - I'll frame the discussion a little bit, and then we're going to get into

00:31 - what's happening around the country

00:32 - as well as here in Pennsylvania when it comes to public policy. So.

00:37 - You represent him just to say hello.

00:38 - Introduce yourself.

00:40 - Hello and introduce myself. Oh.

00:43 - Hello, everyone.

00:43 - I'm state representative Chris Rabb.

00:45 - I represent the 200th legislative district of Pennsylvania, covering

00:49 - four neighborhoods and 70,000 people in Northwest Philadelphia.

00:54 - I'm a five term state representative,

00:57 - and I serve on the Commerce Committee, the Finance Committee, the Judiciary

01:03 - Committee, and the Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee.

01:07 - And, this is my last term in office, so,

01:10 - I'm trying to milk it for all it's worth.

01:15 - All right.

01:16 - And I'm Dan Murphy, director of government

01:19 - affairs for the Pennsylvania News Media Association.

01:22 - And in case you don't know what that is, that is a trade association

01:25 - that represents the interests of the news media across Pennsylvania.

01:29 - And we champion policies that promote government transparency and accessibility

01:34 - so our journalists can do the important work that they do, and informing citizens

01:39 - about what the government officials are doing and holding them to account.

01:43 - And it's a position I came into a year and a half ago

01:46 - after spending four decades as a reporter.

01:50 - And, the last half of that was working up in the Capitol, covering state

01:54 - government, covering these legislators we have with us today.

01:58 - And, I have to say this position has

02:02 - I was very fortunate to get it, and it has enlightened me

02:07 - about the legislative process in ways I never knew existed.

02:11 - It's it's arduous

02:14 - and sometimes angering and very interesting.

02:20 - And it's never a dull moment.

02:22 - Right? Right.

02:24 - Good afternoon. My name is Susan Patterson Plank.

02:26 - I'm the director of governmental affairs and partnerships for Rebuild Local News.

02:31 - Rebuild Local News is a national, nonprofit, nonpartisan organization

02:36 - that represents, many, many people across the country organizations, newsrooms,

02:41 - press associations, you name it, about 300 different newsrooms.

02:45 - We're platform agnostic.

02:47 - We're business model agnostic, and we're singularly focused

02:51 - on trying to pass public policy in states across the country.

02:56 - All right.

02:56 - All right.

02:57 - Thank you everyone.

02:58 - And so just a little bit about myself before we get into talking

03:02 - about public policy, so my name is Mike Rispoli.

03:07 - Im the senior director of journalism and civic information

03:10 - at Free Press and Free Press. Action.

03:12 - Just one quick note.

03:13 - We are not in any way affiliated with the Barry Weiss led media company,

03:18 - the Free Press, and said Free Press and Free Press action.

03:22 - For the past two decades, plus has advocated for media

03:26 - in the public interest.

03:28 - We advocate for press freedom, for the rights of journalists as workers,

03:32 - we advocate for expanded funding for public media, and specifically, my role.

03:38 - And what we're going to be talking about today is

03:40 - how do we advocate for community rooted, independent, local news

03:44 - that serves the community is very much a part of that community.

03:48 - I grew up in new Jersey.

03:49 - I do I live in Philadelphia for the PAC's, six years.

03:53 - But I grew up in new Jersey.

03:56 - I became a reporter.

03:57 - I was a statehouse reporter for Gannett Newspapers.

04:00 - When I was laid off by Gannett, which I'm sure many of you have,

04:04 - have also experience.

04:06 - You know, the mass layoffs in journalism.

04:08 - I myself was a victim of one.

04:10 - I worked as a digital editor for the Newark Star-Ledger, where

04:14 - I got to really understand the business and behind the scenes of media.

04:18 - I also worked at International Press Freedom,

04:21 - before joining Free Press about ten years ago.

04:24 - And I have had the opportunity over the past decade

04:28 - plus with my time at Free Press to talk to community members

04:32 - and journalists in new Jersey and Pennsylvania, North Carolina

04:36 - and Colorado, and California and many other states.

04:39 - And what I have found through

04:42 - that work is that people care deeply about their community,

04:47 - and journalists care deeply about their community,

04:50 - and that is the starting place for how we're going to talk

04:53 - about public policy, because public policy is not an abstract issue.

04:58 - It's not a theoretical or philosophical debate.

05:01 - The decisions that are made in statehouses around the country have a tangible,

05:06 - tangible and material impact on people's lives,

05:08 - and that is inclusive of local news policy.

05:11 - I had the really good fortune of leading the campaign,

05:15 - the grassroots campaign to create the new Jersey Civic Information Consortium,

05:19 - which is an independent public grantmaking body that over the past

05:23 - six years has invested over $12 million into community news and information.

05:28 - It's funded hundreds of journalism jobs.

05:30 - It's launched over 100 journalism careers.

05:33 - It has trained over 1600 community storytellers

05:37 - and new Jersey Civic Info grantees.

05:40 - Reach, one part of me, 1 in 4 households

05:44 - and across the state of new Jersey so that the reach is wide, even

05:47 - if for like the very small hyperlocal set of funds.

05:51 - Through the course of that campaign, thousands of new Jersey residents,

05:55 - not journalists to everyday folks took part in that campaign.

05:59 - They called their lawmakers.

06:00 - They showed up to lobby days.

06:02 - They went to community meetings.

06:04 - They testified before budget committees talking about how the loss

06:08 - or lack of local news in their community was hurting them.

06:12 - And I bring that up because I think for,

06:15 - as rich as all these discussions are, I think and we've heard this from

06:19 - the other panels, the more that we are out there

06:21 - and talking to the public about journalism,

06:24 - the more that they're going to want to get involved in it.

06:26 - And that is inclusive of public policy.

06:28 - And so

06:31 - I think that

06:33 - when we're talking about the future of local news

06:35 - and the future of public policy, we should be looking to the state level.

06:40 - We all know what's happening at the federal level.

06:42 - We've seen how the FCC or, has kind of overstepped

06:47 - its bounds in trying to censor news stations from independent coverage.

06:52 - We have seen how, the rescission of,

06:56 - funding for public media has led to the elimination

06:59 - for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

07:02 - At the state level, though, it's a it's a different story.

07:05 - It's really the laboratory right now for what's happening

07:07 - around the future of local news and public policy here in Pennsylvania.

07:11 - We're all working together in a variety of different ways

07:16 - to advance legislation in Harrisburg, but we're also seeing things pop up in

07:20 - Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, New Mexico, California, Oregon, Washington.

07:27 - Almost more than half of the states in this country are in some shape

07:31 - or form, taking up, local news legislation.

07:35 - And and so for me, it feels really exciting

07:37 - because when I was first having conversations with lawmakers

07:41 - not too long ago, I was literally laughed out of rooms.

07:44 - There was like, no one cares about journalism.

07:46 - Or if you were a journalist, I don't want to get involved in public policy.

07:50 - That conversation has shifted pretty drastically over the past ten years,

07:54 - and it's been really heartening to see that.

07:57 - And before I

07:58 - you know, before we get into this panel discussion,

08:00 - I just want to urge everyone, this is definitely the case

08:03 - with the launch of the local, the Keystone Local News Coalition.

08:07 - We have to be able to be in this together, not just as journalists,

08:13 - but also seeing ourselves in alignment with the communities that we serve.

08:19 - For for all the policies that we might be debating and introducing,

08:23 - as folks who work in public and local news, public policy,

08:27 - we need to remember that ultimately, we want the outcomes of these policies

08:31 - to make people's lives better and the same threats that we

08:35 - as journalists face when it comes to, the First Amendment or press freedom.

08:40 - Those are the same threats that protesters are facing right now.

08:44 - It's the same threats

08:45 - that universities are facing right now when it comes to freedom of expression.

08:49 - Right.

08:49 - So this if we're talking about local news, is being so critical to democracy,

08:54 - we also need to see ourselves

08:56 - as part of a broader movement for a stronger democracy.

09:00 - And I think that that approach is what can call people in

09:05 - to get involved in campaigns like the Keystone Local News Coalition

09:11 - and so many others.

09:12 - And so, all that being said, and I'm really excited to get into

09:16 - this conversation.

09:17 - Representative Rob, I'm going to ask you the first question.

09:19 - You just recently introduced House Bill 2047 and 2048,

09:25 - one for a state supported fellowship program,

09:29 - another for an independent public grant

09:31 - making body similar to the new Jersey Civic Information Consortium.

09:35 - We'd love for you to share a little bit about what motivated you

09:38 - to want to introduce legislation to support local journalism.

09:43 - And of course, please, like talk about the bills as well.

09:45 - But I'm also very curious to hear about your motivation as well.

09:50 - I first want to

09:52 - acknowledge how appreciative,

09:55 - I am for sharing this moment with all of you.

09:59 - It may seem a bit odd, as an elected official,

10:02 - to want to be surrounded with a bunch of journalists.

10:06 - Yeah, I see some nodding heads.

10:07 - I am an anomaly in that regard.

10:11 - Because your job is to hold us to account,

10:16 - and I often refer to my constituents as my bosses,

10:20 - and the public holds you all to account.

10:23 - But that's how it should be.

10:25 - And so, there's a natural tension that exists between journalists and electeds.

10:31 - And I think it's a healthy one.

10:33 - But I don't feel that part of the tension

10:37 - with regard to this legislation, because it is a cumulative

10:40 - and a collaborative policy that can benefit

10:45 - everyone, irrespective of geography or ideology.

10:50 - And this is about as pro democracy

10:54 - as it gets, particularly on a hyper local level.

10:59 - I'm currently

11:00 - and this is not meant for Partizan purposes.

11:03 - I'm currently running for Congress.

11:05 - So there's a level of scrutiny on me that I've never had in my entire life.

11:10 - And that's saying a lot, being in public office

11:13 - for ten years.

11:16 - And I really am quite mindful of the journalists

11:21 - who operate with.

11:25 - With great professionalism,

11:27 - and discipline.

11:31 - And even if they're asking me

11:32 - tough questions that I probably wouldn't want to answer,

11:36 - I appreciate that they're doing a job and that there is value,

11:40 - even if it doesn't make me look like, you know, the guy

11:43 - riding in on the white horse.

11:45 - I say all that for context, but the deeper context around

11:49 - what has inspired me to introduce these bills,

11:53 - is because I wouldn't be

11:55 - where I was if it weren't for independent journalism.

11:59 - You see, my great great grandparents founded the Baltimore

12:03 - Afro-American newspaper.

12:05 - It is the oldest black owned,

12:08 - family run newspaper in the nation.

12:11 - It was founded in the 1890s, and it's still in operation today.

12:16 - Five generations later.

12:19 - And I served on its board for ten years.

12:23 - And it wasn't just any business.

12:26 - It wasn't any just, family business.

12:29 - It was something that was so central

12:32 - to my identity

12:36 - and my sense of self and purpose,

12:39 - knowing that I could help in some small way,

12:42 - guide a business that did something that most businesses

12:47 - don't do, which is build community wealth.

12:51 - And when I talk about community wealth, I talk about all the things

12:55 - that are non-financial, that make life worth living.

13:02 - And the

13:03 - rich history that has led up to the moment when I joined the board

13:08 - in my gosh, late 20s.

13:13 - And the power of the pen

13:17 - and journalism and independent media was so strong

13:19 - that when my ancestors were running this business and doing quite well,

13:24 - my great great uncles were making $30,000

13:27 - during the Great Depression without any higher education.

13:33 - There's very few

13:33 - people were making that kind of money, but irrespective of how much money

13:37 - was being made by my family at the time, which no longer exists,

13:43 - they were telling stories that mainstream media

13:45 - refused to document.

13:51 - And the paper was so powerful.

13:52 - And not just the Baltimore Afro, but any number of large scale African-American

13:59 - newspapers were so powerful that they had national editions,

14:03 - and people would carry those newspapers like Pullman porters,

14:09 - and they would pass along the

14:11 - newspaper to black communities from east to west.

14:16 - And they had to be worried about being caught

14:19 - with that paper in the South,

14:22 - because they could be lynched

14:25 - for sharing substantive information about the lives and accomplishments

14:31 - of black people.

14:34 - And to me, that is a very powerful symbol of

14:38 - of the enduring need

14:43 - and primacy

14:44 - of independent media, particularly now when we have five tech pros

14:50 - controlling the vast majority of what we consume.

14:55 - And so that's what inspired me.

14:57 - Plus, I've been working with Free Press off and on for over 20 years

15:03 - talking about media justice and democracy.

15:05 - I also was a, I don't even know if this is a term anymore.

15:09 - A blogger,

15:11 - as a political blogger, and I was one of the first credentialed

15:14 - bloggers for the 2004 Democratic and Republican National Conventions.

15:19 - And so I was a in a

15:23 - adjacent, not a journalist,

15:27 - but someone part of the press corps,

15:31 - documenting a very historic moment in political history in 2004.

15:36 - And beyond.

15:37 - And that opened up my eyes to the power of a different kind of independent media,

15:42 - which we then called new media.

15:46 - And as a result,

15:47 - I've had a love of independent media and how I can bring people into the fold

15:54 - and allow our stories to be told in meaningful ways.

15:57 - And I was very fortunate that I was approached,

16:01 - with these legislative,

16:04 - measures that I could advocate for here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,

16:10 - where there too many communities, that don't have the resources

16:15 - they need in this space to make sure that we have a participatory democracy

16:20 - where our stories are being told irrespective of where those outlets are.

16:24 - Those communities are along the political spectrum. So,

16:29 - yeah, I appreciate that.

16:30 - Representative.

16:33 - Jan, I wanted to ask you,

16:36 - you know, from from your perspective, you're in the statehouse every day.

16:40 - You're hitting the hallways, you're talking to lawmakers,

16:44 - from Pinas perspective, what are some of the most pressing issues,

16:48 - when it comes to local news in the Commonwealth that you are talking

16:51 - to lawmakers about in the statehouse?

16:55 - Well, first off, representative Rob, I want to thank you

16:57 - for your interest in journalism and your willingness to support newsrooms.

17:01 - And I want you to know that PMA will continue to work

17:03 - with you and trying to advance your legislation.

17:07 - What I'm talking about with, with lawmakers

17:11 - is the most pressing thing, I guess, right now is,

17:16 - and it's straying from the,

17:19 - rebuilding our, our industry or building up our industry.

17:22 - But it's, it's issues that help our reporters, do their job.

17:28 - And as many of you know, the Supreme Court in the last fall

17:31 - blew a hole in our Sunshine Act by decimating

17:35 - the 24 hour, role that

17:39 - that public bodies post their agendas at least 24 hours in advance of a meeting.

17:43 - And the idea behind that is to give the public an opportunity

17:46 - to make plans, to attend a meeting and offer some input and what they want,

17:51 - you know, in matters that affect their lives and their pocketbooks.

17:55 - And after that ruling, you know, legislators said, okay, that wasn't our

18:01 - that wasn't our intent is to allow boards to just add things to the agenda.

18:05 - At the last minute.

18:07 - And so, House Bill 2146 was offered

18:11 - and it would provide a limited number of permissible reasons for a board

18:16 - by a majority vote to add last minute items to their agenda.

18:21 - And, then ever in the Senate, it was Senate Bill 1150.

18:26 - And that would allow even fewer reasons than the House bill for that 24 hour,

18:32 - you know, violation of the 24 hour rule is, I'll call it.

18:36 - And, part of the reason the Senate is so strict about it

18:39 - is that the plaintiff in the case that led to the Supreme Court

18:44 - ruling is now a state senator, and it was a school board in his area

18:49 - that tacked on a teacher's contract at the school board meeting.

18:54 - And that was, you know, that's that's a hefty price tag to those contracts.

18:59 - And it was decided at the last minute.

19:01 - And, he challenged it went all the way.

19:05 - The Supreme Court and the court found that there is a loophole that allowed it.

19:09 - So now there's this effort to fix that.

19:12 - In fact, the Senate State Government Committee is actually

19:15 - going to be taking that up next week at their meeting.

19:19 - So, we'll see more action on that.

19:22 - The other thing that I am talking to, lawmakers and

19:28 - about and, and

19:29 - occasionally they'll get or their committee executive directors,

19:33 - they'll get notes from us saying, you know, about how their bill seems to tinker

19:37 - with the right to know law, and they do it in ways that kind of diminish the,

19:42 - access to, to public records and it happens not in just a few bills.

19:48 - It happens in dozens, if not hundreds of bills in our Legislative Council.

19:52 - Carrie, Katie Gavin is is really busy,

19:56 - scrutinizing every bill for those,

19:59 - but, additionally, we're seeing in the House interest

20:02 - in taking on the whole right to know law and updating it.

20:06 - And, we certainly agrees, there's updates that are needed.

20:12 - My highly esteemed colleague Melissa Malesky,

20:15 - who many of you have spoken with, many times, she's our media law counsel.

20:20 - She testified before the House Intergovernmental

20:23 - Operations, and affairs Committee,

20:29 - and, they they are interested in taking on this issue.

20:33 - But one of the the issues that she testified about was,

20:37 - doing something about the the government's routine use of that

20:41 - 30 day extension after the initial five business day response period.

20:46 - And I see the other heads in here nodding because, yes,

20:49 - that was always a pet peeve of mine in my reporting days.

20:52 - And, it's just you just file a right to no request

20:56 - and you immediately get the like, you're asking for a set of meeting minutes

20:59 - and that that is something that should not even require a right to know

21:03 - law request.

21:04 - But there's there's other other issues with it.

21:08 - And unfortunately, Panda isn't the only one that sees

21:12 - a need to update the right to know law.

21:14 - There's many municipal government groups that also have some, updates.

21:19 - And of course, sometimes our ideas conflict with theirs.

21:24 - And, so that's the reason why this issue of updating the right to know

21:29 - our continues to get kicked down the road because there's just

21:33 - a financial compromise on that one is hard.

21:36 - But, finally, I would be remiss if I didn't bring up, Pena's

21:42 - top legislative priority this session, and that is public notice modernization.

21:46 - As you know, the law right now currently requires public notices

21:50 - to appear in printed newspapers.

21:51 - And, Representative Robert Freeman,

21:55 - who is the chair of the House Local Government Committee, is introduced.

21:58 - House Bill 1291.

22:01 - And that recognizes the evolution that's happening in the news

22:04 - media industry increasingly towards digital platforms.

22:07 - And it would allow notices to appear on news media, websites.

22:13 - In front of paywalls.

22:15 - And that would meet the state's legal requirement.

22:18 - But his bill also recognizes the fact

22:21 - that Pennsylvania still has a digital digital divide.

22:24 - And I can personally attest to that.

22:26 - I was up in Columbia County last week, and I could not get access

22:30 - to the internet to save me. And,

22:34 - that so, you know, he sees that there's still a need to allow,

22:38 - notices to be in print in newspapers where they where they exist.

22:44 - House Bill 1291, we I think we spoke about it at last year's summit.

22:48 - The, bill was the subject of a hearing in the fall,

22:53 - and it was it came before the House

22:55 - Local Government Committee in early March.

22:59 - An amendment was offered to address

23:00 - some of the stakeholder concerns that were raised at the hearing.

23:04 - And, at this point, it remains a work in progress.

23:08 - Representative Freeman continues to have conversations with stakeholders

23:12 - and is involved in those,

23:15 - and we hope to see it get a floor vote soon.

23:20 - Right.

23:20 - Thank you. Jan.

23:23 - So we've talked a little bit about funding fellowships, right.

23:28 - To know Susan rebuilds been doing some work in PA,

23:33 - but rebuild also is working in many other states and can kind of

23:38 - look at what's been successful or what things have stalled elsewhere.

23:42 - So I love for you to share.

23:44 - What is rebuild seen in terms of legislation

23:48 - or ideas that are taking hold in other states?

23:50 - And then right here in Pennsylvania, what have you been hearing in,

23:53 - your outreach to lawmakers, journalists and other allies?

23:56 - So thank you.

23:57 - So this week, Maryland,

24:00 - passed legislation that we don't know

24:03 - what the amount will be today, but we know it will be have the word millions in it.

24:08 - On a government advertising set aside.

24:10 - So what that bill is, we like to call it the shop local bill.

24:14 - It's, your state agencies, your public health agencies,

24:18 - people like that asking them to take their advertising

24:22 - dollars, not public notices, their discretionary advertising dollars,

24:26 - and invest them in their local media versus,

24:30 - let's say, Google and some other people, and it asks for a percentage.

24:35 - So what passed in Maryland was asking their state agencies

24:39 - to invest 50% into local media.

24:42 - So that's a significant, a significant example of, of of bills that have passed.

24:47 - And real right.

24:48 - When Mike opened up, he said, you know, public policy is real and meaningful,

24:52 - and that will put dollars into local media that, that they've never seen before.

24:57 - That's a great example.

24:58 - We've had other examples recently.

25:01 - Journalism tax refund credits.

25:03 - We like to call that write a big check for you.

25:06 - So if you're a newsroom, for example, you're that refundable

25:10 - tax credit is regardless of what your tax liability is.

25:13 - It's essentially it's a like a grant. Right.

25:16 - So those have passed in New York.

25:18 - They passed in Illinois.

25:19 - They've passed in New Mexico.

25:21 - New Mexico is just about a month ago.

25:23 - Those are worth millions of dollars.

25:26 - In New Mexico, it's $4 million a year.

25:29 - For the next five years.

25:31 - In Illinois, it was $5 million a year for the next five years.

25:35 - So for an example, if you are a newsroom in Illinois, for every journalist that

25:40 - you employ, you're going to get $15,000 every year for the next five years.

25:44 - So you can see where that really adds up.

25:46 - So that's that's another good example.

25:49 - Another example that we have is not passed yet, but I just want to bring it up.

25:54 - It's been going trying to work through it in Kansas,

25:57 - a small business set aside.

26:00 - And the idea on that is if you are a local small business in Main Street

26:05 - and you advertise with your local journalism news outlet,

26:09 - let's say, and these are examples, you spent $5,000 last year.

26:13 - You get a tax credit for half of that.

26:15 - And we love that one too, because it's really connects

26:19 - the main street back to the journalism, back to their community.

26:23 - We're real big believers of all this is how do we help your community

26:28 - and how we help communities is through journalism.

26:31 - So that's those are just some three examples.

26:33 - But thinking about Pennsylvania,

26:35 - first of all, I want to do a little shout out to Len first, Posner

26:38 - and Hines, because they are helping us funds,

26:41 - a position to be completely focused on

26:44 - Pennsylvania, in part because we believe Pennsylvania has so much potential.

26:48 - And today's been a great example of that.

26:49 - If you look around the room, look how many people are here.

26:52 - Look at the work that these two gentlemen have done.

26:55 - Look at the launch of the Keystone News Coalition today.

26:59 - All those things are showing us that there's great potential and momentum.

27:03 - And so Rebuild local news is very focused on what can we do

27:08 - to take that momentum and work with all the people who are on the stage.

27:11 - And in this room to make something pass, whether that is a government set aside

27:16 - or that small business opportunity we've talked about.

27:19 - But we really think that there's more potential in Pennsylvania,

27:23 - and we're really excited about focusing on that, on that momentum.

27:29 - All right.

27:30 - I just wanted to make sure, just a couple of minutes before Q&A or.

27:36 - Yes. Okay.

27:37 - I just want to make sure that we don't.

27:39 - Okay.

27:40 - Maybe what we'll do is we'll open it up for a Q&A,

27:44 - and then I'll maybe we can wrap it

27:47 - real quick after that, or just leave some parting words with folks.

27:51 - If you want to speak, ask a question, raise a hand.

27:54 - We've got some wonderful people walking around the room with some microphones.

28:02 - I see one person, so I love that hands are going up just in my eyes.

28:06 - That just makes me so incredibly happy.

28:08 - Okay, and then we have one person in the back there and no Amy. Joe.

28:11 - Hi. Go ahead and.

28:18 - Got it.

28:20 - My question was, just a little bit about the the process.

28:24 - I have a deep interest in the right to know

28:27 - law and the sunshine laws and the idea that these might be updated.

28:30 - I was be great.

28:31 - I've been wanting to like to.

28:34 - What is the process?

28:35 - I know was, like, heavily involved in all that.

28:37 - But like,

28:38 - because you are a membership organization, like, if folks who are not associated

28:42 - with, a news organization that you're a member, like,

28:45 - how do the rest of us

28:47 - get involved and get updates and like, get a seat at the table to kind of talk

28:50 - about what this process is and the kind of things

28:52 - that we would like to see an advocate for and updates to these laws.

28:56 - Well, I would always,

28:58 - member or not, I would, you know, we always welcome input.

29:02 - Because there might be an idea, an issue that you have

29:06 - that our members share with.

29:07 - They have a voice.

29:08 - So, you know, feel free to reach out to me.

29:11 - And I think our contact information is in our is somewhere.

29:15 - But and then, you know, also, like I said,

29:19 - it was the House Intergovernmental Operations

29:21 - and Affairs Committee, the, the chairman is represented to

29:24 - so the Republican chair is representative stats.

29:28 - And you can feel free to, you know, voice your concerns to them as well.

29:33 - And one thing I would add to that too, and I think it's important to note.

29:37 - So when the HB 20, 47 and 2048, that Representative Rabb

29:43 - introduced those bills,

29:46 - passed committee in the House, back in late January,

29:49 - and we heard directly from staff and from lawmakers the reason why

29:52 - the bills came up for a vote and receive the support they did was

29:56 - because they heard from stakeholders across the state,

30:01 - for a lot of issues, if things can feel like,

30:05 - oh, like one voice doesn't matter when it comes to local news

30:09 - at the state and local level, your voice does matter.

30:12 - It does make a difference.

30:14 - And so like to Jan's point, following where these bills are getting involved

30:18 - and organizations that are following it.

30:20 - If you don't have the time to writing a letter, making a phone call,

30:23 - whatever it might be,

30:24 - that actually goes a really long way in gaining support in the legislature.

30:29 - We have a question in the back. Do.

30:41 - They say,

30:44 - I wonder

30:46 - since

30:47 - we have to do this,

30:50 - how do you have your heart

30:51 - pounding at the principal's office?

30:55 - If we,

30:56 - if we have public private partnerships

30:58 - and especially programs

31:02 - that affect the finances of a news organization, because if the government

31:07 - can give something like a subsidy or an incentive, it can take it away to.

31:11 - Right? And so does that.

31:13 - Is this create a conflict for newsrooms that we're not really prepared to

31:19 - or do you have any examples you might give of where this has or hasn't

31:23 - been an issue.

31:24 - Yeah. Great question.

31:26 - So we talk a lot about policy has to be First Amendment friendly right.

31:30 - So we're always trying to make sure that government isn't choosing who

31:34 - who gets the money.

31:35 - There's a board in between right.

31:37 - Or it's a mathematical formula.

31:39 - But yes, the fear thing, if you give it, it could be taken away.

31:44 - We could say that about any piece of legislation that gets passed.

31:47 - Thank you for nodding.

31:48 - Yes. Any piece of legislation that gets passed can be taken away.

31:52 - But we also are very interested.

31:54 - When I was talking about the, refundable tax credit,

31:57 - I talked about the number of years because clearly it's hard.

32:00 - It's not harder.

32:01 - But you when you when you pass the legislation it says is

32:04 - X amount of dollars for five years, that, that it doesn't guarantee it.

32:09 - But it sure helps. But it's

32:14 - being concerned about it is very good.

32:16 - And, and it's part of the reason when we are building policy,

32:20 - we push it around with lots and lots of experts,

32:23 - lots of people who are in the room who can say, here's the risk,

32:27 - here's the risk, here's the risk. Let's make sure we get it right.

32:30 - But we're very focused on making sure that government isn't choosing.

32:33 - I like this newsroom, and I don't like that one.

32:37 - We're very focused on making sure that that does not happen.

32:42 - Yeah. And.

32:45 - The the board that controls the consortium,

32:50 - the entity itself should be

32:52 - independent and autonomous.

32:55 - That's important because if it's just controlled

32:57 - by politicians, we know it's going to happen.

33:00 - Right. So having that firewall is important.

33:03 - Also no one has to apply for the grants like so.

33:07 - If you don't

33:07 - if you believe it's, you know, government overreach don't apply for the money.

33:12 - I just want to add to that.

33:13 - Right.

33:13 - Because even the journalism tax refundable you have to apply to get that.

33:17 - That's a great point.

33:18 - You don't have to you don't have to.

33:20 - And the other pieces like

33:23 - government can be vindictive irrespective of the field.

33:27 - And so they can go after you if they don't like what you're doing.

33:31 - We're seeing that now.

33:34 - Same with philanthropy.

33:35 - Philanthropy can be very fickle.

33:37 - You know, one year they're interested in this,

33:40 - and then they pull all the money they put over there.

33:43 - And ultimately people have to make a decision about

33:45 - is this a comfortable relationship in terms of a funding source?

33:49 - And if it's not, then they can to go in a different direction.

33:53 - But I think the the point is fundamental to the level of bipartisan support

33:58 - these bills get, because there is a on the surface,

34:02 - a suggestion that this is government telling you how to operate

34:07 - if you want this money, but it doesn't have any editorial control.

34:11 - And also, people have to remember, too, that it's not just it's

34:14 - not just the production of content and news.

34:18 - It can be equipment, it can be training of people that does not directly relate

34:24 - to the politics or the perceived politics or ideology of the media outlet.

34:29 - And I think we need more literacy within the state

34:33 - legislature to understand that, to understand that this transcends,

34:37 - an ideologically driven kind of mission because it doesn't.

34:44 - How are you doing this?

34:44 - This question is for Jane.

34:46 - When you spoke about some of the tax credits that you can get

34:50 - if you advertise with local media, and I guess even in Maryland with the,

34:55 - you know, the state agencies, spending some money with local media.

35:00 - What are you saying?

35:01 - I'm sure it varies, but what are you seeing

35:03 - in terms of how a local news outlet is defined?

35:07 - Susan, I'm gonna argue. Absolutely.

35:09 - So, great question.

35:11 - And if, our, our website is rebuild local news, Newstalk

35:15 - and I say that only because

35:16 - I'm not going to give the full answer here because it's pretty long.

35:19 - We talk a lot about in the model bills,

35:23 - talking about the organizations

35:26 - that can receive the funding or what is local.

35:29 - And each state kind of makes some decisions around that.

35:32 - It can be things like, defining, newspaper or digital outlet

35:38 - or whatever it is, trying to make sure that it is local versus a national outlet.

35:42 - But there are definitely back to like almost the First Amendment

35:47 - conversation.

35:48 - It's a similar conversation, but we have a lot of examples of of how we do that.

35:52 - But it is it's always the most popular question.

35:55 - Like, well, how do I how do I know, in, in some of these states

36:00 - that have already are cities, I should say, that have been enacted, the,

36:03 - the government advertising set aside,

36:06 - they really made sure that it was community based.

36:09 - Right.

36:10 - And deciding how do we define community based is, is

36:14 - definitely there there are guardrails around that.

36:17 - And I'm sorry, I'm not being more specific,

36:19 - but it's a little different for each state.

36:22 - Yeah.

36:23 - So your question over here.

36:26 - Hello.

36:26 - I'm thrilled that there are movements across many states to increase

36:31 - support for local journalism.

36:32 - My impression is that the support is,

36:36 - limited in terms of time or amount of money,

36:40 - or under certain conditions they can receive it.

36:43 - I wonder if there has been any talk in statehouses that you're aware of,

36:47 - of making a more sustaining commitment to, journalism and information ecosystem

36:52 - so that we're not relying on the commercial market

36:54 - kind of the way that our, European colleagues do things.

37:00 - Yeah, it's a it's a really good question.

37:02 - And, you know, this question of independence came up before,

37:05 - I think, one of the most critical pieces to figure out when it comes to public

37:10 - policy and local news is that if we want to make sure that we are

37:14 - protecting editorial independence of of folks

37:17 - who are on the receiving end

37:18 - of this money, that we figure out long term funding solutions, because

37:22 - having to go back to the legislature year after year after year to ask for, annual

37:27 - allocation will make it more subject to, like some political interference or.

37:31 - Oh, I didn't like how you spent the money last year.

37:33 - And so maybe we'll we won't give you as much this year.

37:36 - That being said, in Washington state right now,

37:39 - they're taking a really interesting approach

37:41 - where they're looking at taxing the revenues of certain large,

37:45 - online platforms and then using the money from that

37:50 - to go into reinvesting into it, into local news and community information.

37:56 - We have seen attempts like this,

37:59 - in California and Oregon, but those haven't quite worked out either.

38:04 - I think, and certainly correct me if I'm wrong season here,

38:07 - but for the most part, most of these initial projects

38:10 - are relatively small, just kind of getting off the ground.

38:13 - New novel ideas they're receiving kind of yearly

38:17 - or maybe like every two year appropriations. Not.

38:20 - And I don't think anyone has quite figured out

38:23 - the kind of long term recurring revenue to support these things.

38:27 - I'm going to say. Yes.

38:28 - And, because this is very early,

38:31 - but but Utah passed legislation just recently.

38:34 - They have a really short session.

38:36 - And really,

38:37 - the the legislation that was passed, they called it a sin tax on their tax.

38:41 - Very, very, very, very, very large advertising outlets

38:45 - fill in the blank that ends up being like 1 or 2 nationally.

38:49 - And that those funds would go into a, into a bucket

38:53 - that could then be used for a list of things.

38:56 - One of those things is civic information programs.

39:00 - We were very, very interested in that and what that could mean.

39:04 - And that could be a long term sustainability.

39:07 - Yeah. And

39:07 - but it's very early and, and there will be lots of lawsuits filed on that one.

39:11 - So more to come on that.

39:13 - And just one thing to add.

39:14 - Sorry to interrupt you, representative.

39:16 - Utah is a GOP trifecta state, right?

39:22 - Sometimes we talk about these things as only being like, oh, though

39:25 - new Jersey is a blue state, California is a blue state.

39:28 - Utah is not a blue state.

39:30 - And so I think it really speaks to the bipartisan

39:34 - or really nonpartisan interest in this

39:37 - isn't, Utah also the

39:39 - state that has exclusively mail in voting?

39:43 - Yes. Yes.

39:44 - Okay.

39:46 - I just wanted to say that, when we talk about ongoing

39:50 - support for things, let's also put it in a market based, context.

39:56 - We provide major subsidies for corporations

40:02 - all the time for local farmers, for massive corporations.

40:07 - We always have a way to justify the subsidies we want

40:11 - for whatever political purpose, whether it's legitimate or not.

40:16 - And we can wrap it around some substantive policy proposal and such.

40:20 - But ultimately, we always find a way to justify

40:24 - subsidizing for profit entities,

40:28 - because that's what we want.

40:31 - So why now?

40:32 - Would we question the need to support

40:36 - a public utility

40:39 - if we claim this is the greatest democracy in the world?

40:42 - How about investing in that democracy in the most meaningful ways

40:47 - that transcend political ideology?

40:50 - Because this doesn't have a litmus test on

40:53 - what the politics are of a given media outlet.

40:57 - So I think we have to push back on some of these narratives that say, well,

41:01 - this is an anomaly or this is overreach, when that's all government

41:05 - has been doing for generations.

41:07 - The question is, are we leveling the playing field,

41:10 - particularly in furtherance of democracy itself?

41:14 - Yeah.

41:15 - Thank you representative, I think we have time

41:17 - for like one more question and then we'll move to wrap.

41:20 - I see one person in the back there with her hand up.

41:24 - Hi. How are you?

41:24 - I'm Ryan, I'm a journalism student from Penn State, and I couldn't notice

41:28 - but help when I'm walking around campus

41:29 - or when I'm talking to even people in my hometown in new Jersey.

41:32 - People really don't understand

41:34 - the difference between, like, the state legislature and what our Congress does.

41:38 - And do you think it's like the job of local journalists to explain

41:41 - the difference in power between the two branches of government,

41:44 - what they are, what they can do for the community,

41:47 - because obviously there's a lot of different,

41:49 - I guess how do I explain there's a lot of different things that they do.

41:52 - And they impact people differently.

41:53 - So my question for representative Rob is, do you think that, our

41:58 - local news station should be explaining more

42:00 - the difference between the two and how they impact our community?

42:02 - Absolutely.

42:05 - Oh my goodness.

42:07 - Absolutely.

42:08 - It's incumbent upon the Fourth Estate

42:12 - to provide substantive information so that we are

42:16 - better informed about the decisions we make in civil society.

42:19 - It's also my responsibility as an elected official and a public servant

42:23 - to connect the dots, because if the press doesn't do it,

42:27 - if the public servants who are elected by the people don't do it,

42:31 - what institutions are left that have the will and the resources

42:35 - and the dedication to make sure that people are truly informed.

42:40 - So, absolutely.

42:41 - And the challenge I have is that so much of media is about profit maximization.

42:48 - And I mentioned community wealth building.

42:50 - I think when we talk about the types of businesses,

42:54 - and I'm focusing now just on for profit media outlets, the type of businesses,

42:59 - they're the most beneficial to building community wealth in our democracy,

43:03 - our media outlets.

43:05 - And part of that is providing a level of civic literacy.

43:09 - Because if your business model is to pander to folks

43:14 - who are civically illiterate, that is a predatory model that we must push against.

43:20 - And to the extent that we can have elected officials

43:24 - and we can have, journalists and media outlets understanding

43:29 - the deep need for this level of,

43:32 - of, of literacy is

43:36 - if we can get on the same page there,

43:38 - we can have a truly, powerful impact on

43:43 - civil society overall that can address

43:46 - some of the extremism that is is ruining,

43:50 - the best of our society.

43:54 - Great.

43:54 - Thank you.

43:55 - Representative

43:56 - Dennis doesn't quite have the hook for me, but I will be wrapping up.

43:59 - What I will say is, if there's anything you take away from this is that

44:04 - journalists absolutely are welcome and should get involved in public policy.

44:08 - You can check out rebuild local news,

44:11 - Pennsylvania News Media Association

44:14 - certainly follow Representative Rob's efforts in the legislature,

44:18 - with Free Press so you can check us out of free press dot net.

44:21 - My colleague Sarah Stones right over there.

44:24 - If folks want to figure out how to get involved in our Pennsylvania work.

44:27 - And please make sure you also sign up for the new Keystone Local News Coalition.

44:31 - We appreciate everyone's time, and thank you so much.