00:00 - The following program is sponsored in part by customers

00:04 - bank.

00:15 - Welcome to the PC and Capital preview.

00:18 - I'm Larry Casper.

00:19 - Today the topic is the Senate Legislative agenda.

00:23 - But first we're joined by Kate Huang Poo of spotlight PA.

00:27 - Welcome to our program, Kate.

00:30 - Yeah. Thank you for having me.

00:31 - You filed a story about PA county jails being paid

00:36 - for detaining immigrants for officials of Ice.

00:40 - Tell us more about that arrangement.

00:43 - Yeah.

00:44 - This is something that we discovered when filing public records request.

00:48 - These agreements are sort of long standing,

00:50 - but they're being used more and more now.

00:52 - Especially our our data goes back to 2020 for basically

00:56 - a few county jails in the state sort of act as mini detention centers.

01:00 - So a lot of people have heard of McKinnon and Clearfield County holding

01:04 - hundreds and hundreds of people dedicated to immigration detention

01:08 - for these county jails.

01:09 - They do their sort of normal county jail duties,

01:12 - but on top of that, they're also holding people for ice.

01:15 - Okay.

01:16 - How did these particular jails get involved in this arrangement?

01:19 - In the first place?

01:21 - Yeah, I mean, for some of these counties, it's gone back decades.

01:24 - You know, they've had agreements with the US marshals where they

01:26 - they hold people for federal law enforcement agencies.

01:30 - And then the ice riders for some of them are quite new.

01:33 - I believe Franklin only started in 2025.

01:37 - A few of the counties had

01:39 - added riders to their marshals agreement in like 2021 ERA.

01:43 - So it sort of runs the gamut as to how these agreements started.

01:47 - Okay.

01:48 - How much of these county prisons are charging the federal government

01:51 - in any way for, holding these immigrants?

01:55 - It's different on a county by county basis, but it sort of runs

01:58 - in the hundred dollar per person per day range.

02:01 - So I think it goes as low as 80 and as high as, I think

02:04 - 120 or $130 per day per person.

02:08 - And then if you multiply that

02:09 - for the number of people that are being held, it ends up being,

02:12 - you know, they can end up being a couple hundred thousand a month.

02:15 - And so why did spotlight PA dig into this, in the first place?

02:20 - Kate?

02:21 - Yeah, I

02:22 - think we were looking into the ways that the state is interacting with Ice.

02:28 - We knew about you know, sort of detention policies where county

02:32 - jails, local officials would hold people for somewhere between 48 to 72 hours.

02:37 - And that's actually what originally I was looking for.

02:39 - I was looking for the amount of money

02:41 - that counties were making from that agreement.

02:44 - But then I saw that these people were being held for much longer than that,

02:48 - which is different from my understanding of, how the detention agreements work.

02:52 - And it turns out, again, these are longstanding policies.

02:56 - I just hadn't looked into that much before.

02:57 - Like York County used to have one that expired in 2021.

03:01 - And so in discovering

03:04 - this policy myself, I realize, you know, there's a lot of data to be had here.

03:08 - And so we sort of just started firing off public records

03:11 - requests and trying to clean as much of this information as possible.

03:15 - Can you say, Kate, approximately how much money has changed

03:18 - hands between the federal government and local governments?

03:22 - Yeah, it's roughly $21 million, over the past two years.

03:28 - So that's from 20 between 2024 and 2025.

03:32 - And that

03:33 - is not equal amongst all counties like Pike County, for example,

03:36 - I think made 16 million or so, whereas the other counties,

03:40 - I think Franklin only made ten, 12,000, 13,000, something like that.

03:45 - So it's not equally distributed.

03:47 - But Pike and Clinton, to my recollection, are the, counties that make

03:51 - the most money is somewhere in the millions for both.

03:54 - And what do these counties have to say about the value of these payments

03:58 - they're receiving from the federal government?

04:01 - Yeah.

04:01 - I mean, for a lot of these

04:02 - counties, it's become extremely important revenue, right?

04:05 - It's used to go back in their general fund or it's used for upkeep

04:09 - of the county jails.

04:10 - So we talked with a few county officials who say, you know,

04:14 - even if we don't like what's what ISIS doing at the federal level,

04:17 - I see no reason to stop this agreement because, you know, we trust our county

04:22 - jail officials, and this is important revenue for this, for the county.

04:26 - Now, Kate, is, you know, homeland security bought two warehouses

04:30 - here in Pennsylvania for the purpose of turning them into detention centers.

04:34 - So I wonder how that plan affects this current arrangement.

04:38 - With the prisons we've been talking about?

04:41 - Yeah.

04:42 - I mean, we reached out to Ice.

04:43 - They have not given us any statement

04:45 - as to whether they plan to continue these agreements or, or

04:50 - if the warehouses are going to substitute out some of these county jails.

04:53 - But we can see from the data that we collected that there has been

04:56 - an increasing number of people

04:57 - that are being held in these jails from 2024 and 2025.

05:01 - I think in one case,

05:03 - the total number of people held a month doubled in Clinton County.

05:07 - And so if you if you look at the data as an aggregate, there's more and more,

05:12 - I guess demand for housing people that are detained by Ice.

05:16 - Now, this arrangement we're talking about only involves

05:19 - a handful of prisons, here in Pennsylvania.

05:22 - Is there any plan of expanding that?

05:25 - So far as we we can tell.

05:28 - Again, we reached out to ice.

05:30 - There have been no agreements that are sort of in the works.

05:34 - We've been we also asked the county jails if they had any plans

05:37 - to expand their capacity to sort of deal with the increase in people.

05:41 - And they said, no, but they said some of the revenue,

05:44 - I think has gone to like jail, upkeep and sort of things like that.

05:48 - But so far as we can

05:48 - tell, there's no plans for increasing the capacity of the county jails

05:52 - or the number of county jails that have these kinds of agreements.

05:56 - All right.

05:56 - Kate Wang, Pool of spotlight.

05:58 - PA thank you very much.

06:00 - Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

06:02 - More of the PCA capital preview after a short break.

06:09 - Welcome back.

06:10 - Our guests today are Senator Nicole Civil and Senator Rosemary Brown.

06:15 - Welcome to our program.

06:18 - I say, Senator Brown, let's start with you.

06:20 - The state Senate passed a bill that intends to protect kids from chat bots.

06:26 - What's your understanding about what chat bots can do?

06:30 - Yeah, well it's interesting,

06:31 - AI is such a strong conversation right now and the protection of everyone.

06:37 - And, if you talk to people about AI, they get very nervous.

06:41 - But yet they appreciate some of the ease

06:44 - of the communication that they can use it for.

06:47 - So especially with children, we're trying to make sure that they're protected.

06:51 - We're making sure that it states specifically that you're not talking

06:55 - to a person, that you're actually talking to AI.

06:59 - It also prohibits sexually, implicit

07:02 - material trying to protect children in that manner.

07:05 - And then also transparency, more transparency among the whole,

07:10 - AI source that you're seeing on the chat boxes.

07:14 - But also to the attorney general's enforcement powers, they are for people

07:19 - that don't follow the rules with the, I new safeguard law.

07:24 - So hopefully we will see that all move through.

07:27 - And, you know, this is about protecting our kids.

07:30 - This is about as we move forward in modern technology, making sure that we

07:35 - understand what it is, how it functions, and what it's capable of.

07:39 - So what do you think about chat bots in general?

07:42 - Senators of all.

07:43 - I mean, after all, it's supposed to simulate human interaction, but it's not.

07:48 - It's,

07:49 - you know, as with many things that we're dealing with with regards

07:52 - to artificial intelligence as, as Senator Brown indicated,

07:56 - there is understandably, I think, a lot of fear and and concern.

08:01 - We have seen people interacting with chat bots

08:04 - that have led them to divorces,

08:07 - that have led them to self-harm and

08:11 - and in really tragic instances, suicide.

08:14 - And in part, we what we recommend.

08:17 - But we're starting to recognize and I think, frankly,

08:20 - not as soon as we could have.

08:22 - But I think we are recognizing it in the General Assembly

08:25 - is the extent to which the AI and tech companies

08:28 - are not adopting these safeguards themselves.

08:32 - And it's incumbent on lawmakers and to adopt those safeguards

08:37 - with regards to AI and tech usage more generally.

08:40 - So whether it comes to chat bots, we've also dealt

08:43 - with nonconsensual deepfake images in the General Assembly there.

08:48 - And I think they're proliferating examples of things that we were going to have to

08:52 - to address.

08:53 - We need to act, and we need to act soon

08:57 - in order to prevent more people from being harmed.

08:59 - And before we get into more of the details

09:01 - that's being proposed here in Pennsylvania, let's consider,

09:05 - Senator Savala, you said a minute ago there chat bot companies out there.

09:09 - And as soon as I hear that word companies,

09:10 - it makes me think about there's competition out there making these

09:13 - chat bots, isn't there?

09:16 - Well, there's yeah,

09:17 - there's if there's a few different artificial intelligence companies,

09:21 - intelligence companies that generate these kind of simulated conversations.

09:26 - The technology is extraordinary.

09:28 - And I think that's why you have

09:31 - people interacting with them as if or convinced

09:34 - to some degree that they are human and, and then following, you know,

09:38 - but the other thing is that the chat bots themselves derives so much of their

09:44 - compute the data that goes into them from the internet itself.

09:48 - Right.

09:49 - And so there's just a lot of different ideas.

09:52 - And, you know, only loosely sort of filtered with very few safeguards

09:57 - in terms of how they interact with the public.

10:00 - And it's up to us to, to try to

10:04 - put guardrails on these, on these companies

10:07 - because they won't do it

10:08 - themselves, their interests, or frankly, in, in profits are in,

10:13 - as you say, competition in creating the most successful chatbot bot.

10:17 - Their interest is not in public safety, but that's our interest.

10:20 - And our interest is in protecting our constituents.

10:22 - And, Senator Brown, let's continue to consider kids here

10:26 - and add them to the equation just for our kids.

10:30 - In a typical situation,

10:31 - interacting with chat bots anyway, what do they expect to get from it?

10:36 - Well, you know, like it's interesting as was just mentioned,

10:39 - you know, you don't really know what they're going to get from it

10:42 - based on the data input that it's pulling from.

10:46 - But one of the most important things is to realize you can get very much

10:51 - in the feeling that this is a real person

10:54 - giving you real, true, whether it's psychological advice,

11:00 - giving you personal advice, giving you educational advice, whatever it could be.

11:05 - But you have to remember that it's artificial intelligence.

11:09 - And that's the key of this, is to remember that,

11:14 - as real as it may feel

11:16 - and as the technology is as strong as it is that this is still

11:20 - artificial intelligence, and we have to be careful what it does

11:24 - provide to our children, what it's feeding our children

11:28 - and what it's instructing them, possibly, which is scary.

11:32 - So, this, this piece of legislation is about specifically children

11:37 - also and ensuring that it is noted, again, that this is AI.

11:42 - This is not a real person, making sure there's no sexual images of that nature.

11:47 - And then also, you know, some other things with suicide and transparency,

11:51 - as we mentioned, was mentioned prior, prior as well.

11:55 - And then if those provisions aren't followed by the companies,

11:58 - that there is enforcement levels with the Attorney General's office,

12:01 - which I think is important where the enforcement piece of it.

12:04 - But we're all learning and, we're trying to be as astute as we can

12:09 - with the technology and, learning what it's capable of

12:13 - and trying to protect the public, as Senator Silva mentioned.

12:17 - And when a child interacts with the chat bot, they

12:20 - they could end up getting

12:21 - whether they wanted or not, some kind of emotional support,

12:24 - which makes it seem more human, doesn't it?

12:27 - All right.

12:28 - And I think that that's where the technology is amazing, but scary

12:33 - because you don't really know what that advice could be or what that is,

12:38 - and it could be dangerous and, it could not be on a professional nature

12:43 - to the way that we say professional medical advice.

12:47 - And, you know, we have to be very, very careful and smart with this.

12:51 - So this is the beginning, I think, of many measures

12:54 - that we will be doing and looking at to make sure that,

12:58 - AI is used appropriately and safely.

13:01 - Senator Tracy Penicuik is the legislator who sponsored this bill that recently

13:07 - passed the Senate that again intends to protect children from chat bots.

13:12 - And she says that parents are telling her that chat bots

13:16 - will become substitutes for parents and grandparents.

13:20 - How do you feel about that view?

13:22 - Senators of all?

13:26 - That's pretty concerning, I would say.

13:28 - I think we should worry about that.

13:29 - We we don't believe that these

13:34 - chat bots should substitute for human interaction.

13:37 - And, you know, of course, that let's be clear

13:40 - that that has that's part of the increasing adoption of technology

13:44 - more generally, even prior to the increased the adoption of so-called

13:49 - artificial intelligence and and the widespread use of chat bots,

13:53 - the, the, the use of the smartphone, the social media,

13:57 - they've also formed substitutes for human interaction.

14:02 - And this is something that tech companies and the wealthy billionaires

14:06 - that own them and, you know, subsidize them in

14:08 - and are the major shareholders, that's part of their model.

14:13 - Their model is in substituting for human interaction.

14:17 - Their model is in getting people addicted.

14:19 - We now just saw that a court upheld a major lawsuit against meta

14:25 - for BP, for upholding the idea that these companies

14:30 - have designed their social media platforms to be addictive.

14:34 - And social media, of course, now integrates AI

14:36 - to most platforms due to a pretty large degree.

14:40 - So let's be clear on what's happening.

14:43 - This is the business model.

14:44 - The business model is to create kind of pathways

14:48 - for people not to interact with each other in a direct manner.

14:52 - And so we're finding different ways in the General Assembly.

14:55 - Again, I think in a way that is somewhat behind, I feel like

15:00 - we are catching up to what's happening in in the tech space

15:04 - to address a lot of the safety concerns.

15:08 - You know, even more generally when we we're working on legislation

15:11 - that that addresses the use of, of, of phones in schools.

15:16 - Right.

15:17 - And that's not just AI, but phones have often been this kind of

15:20 - intermediary or substitute or this distraction from education.

15:24 - And so I think there's a there's a huge amount that we need to do.

15:28 - And there's but at the root of it is understanding

15:31 - what this technology and what these companies are trying to do.

15:35 - Models are based on

15:38 - on separating people from each other

15:40 - and on substituting chat bots for for human interaction.

15:44 - That's that they and and we need to regulate them accordingly.

15:48 - Senator Brown, let's explore some of the details

15:50 - of this legislation that just cleared your chamber recently.

15:54 - That's the bill that was sponsored by Senator Tracy Penicuik,

15:57 - that, again intends to protect children from chat bots.

16:01 - And one of the details has to do with the chat bot

16:03 - disclosing its status as being not human.

16:08 - And, I wonder in a practical sense, how that would appear

16:12 - in a conversation that a child might be having with a chat bot.

16:17 - Yeah.

16:17 - Well, I mean, I think we're all sort of wondering on

16:20 - the reality of how it's going to play out.

16:24 - But I think it does have to disclose it,

16:27 - whether it's verbally or whether it's something that is done

16:30 - with, a texting type of situation, but usually it's a verbal on a chat box.

16:36 - So, it would have to state that this is a, artificial intelligence.

16:41 - I'm not a real person in some way.

16:43 - That's according to how the legislation, I believe, was written.

16:46 - So, once it's all in play, I'll be looking forward to seeing

16:50 - and testing this out as well myself and seeing,

16:53 - you know, how it's stated and how it comes through to the user.

16:57 - But it's supposed to be extremely clear and it's supposed to be reminding

17:02 - of especially to the child, that I'm not a person.

17:06 - I, I'm not sure, to be honest with you, if it's sporadic

17:10 - throughout the chat box conversation.

17:13 - But that is something that I would like to see because I think

17:16 - as you get into a conversation, that's when you forget that it's not right,

17:23 - a real person.

17:24 - And as you start getting deeper and deeper

17:26 - into the conversation, does it stop and remind temporarily?

17:30 - And I'm not 100% sure about that, but I do think that that's something

17:34 - that needs to be considered as we move forward.

17:36 - Yeah.

17:36 - The point of my question is just to find out

17:38 - that it's not relegated to kind of a digital fine print.

17:43 - Exactly.

17:44 - No, no, it should definitely be a full disclosure

17:47 - and readily reminded and,

17:50 - available to the user.

17:54 - What do you think about, representing civil this conversation

17:57 - where we're having about, the chat bot disclosing it's not human.

18:01 - What would you like to see in order to fully, realize

18:05 - that goal of of helping protect kids?

18:11 - I think there's probably, you know, I think we have to rely on the tech

18:14 - safety experts to understand what would be effective in that situation,

18:20 - what level of disclosure or the frequency of it,

18:23 - before, you know, to understand what would actually be

18:29 - useful in terms of and I mean and truly in in ensuring

18:33 - that people have it, understand again, this is a relatively new, technology.

18:39 - And we're, we're, you know, the kind of experience of it is, is relatively new.

18:43 - But I think we have some we there are a lot of people working on the safety side.

18:48 - There were a lot of people working on the safety side

18:51 - in some of these tech companies.

18:52 - They often get relegated to the side,

18:55 - when the product has to be rolled out.

18:58 - And so we need people to be addressing it

19:01 - with the understanding and the data and the research that that would really

19:05 - work to prevent, to protect our children and to protect our constituents.

19:09 - Another aspect of this legislation that cleared your chamber, in the Senate,

19:14 - is that the chat bot would have to know that the user is a child.

19:18 - And I wonder, once the chat bot discovers that, does that trigger

19:23 - another program, that it treats the user differently?

19:27 - Either of you have any insight on that?

19:32 - This is, you know, I mean,

19:34 - the one thing we have to recognize about so-called artificial intelligence

19:38 - is that the the actual compute side is, is is a black box, right?

19:44 - There is I mean, there is no the how the,

19:48 - the large language models in the text are generated.

19:52 - Obviously, there's a huge amount of

19:54 - technological wizardry that goes into the creation of it,

19:57 - but then the actual generation is itself somewhat unclear.

20:02 - And so of course, that you would you would want that compute

20:05 - the input to be taken quite seriously by the, the artificial intelligence.

20:09 - But, you know, we're going to have to see we're going to have to see

20:12 - how these, these, these models, these large language models interact with,

20:19 - with human participants and with children,

20:23 - the record is not good.

20:25 - The record is not good with these, with these, with these chat bots.

20:28 - The record is not good with these companies.

20:29 - And so we're going to have to be pretty vigilant.

20:31 - One more detail I want to explore about the legislation

20:34 - that is supposed to protect children from chat bots is that,

20:39 - the child would have to take a break

20:42 - from the chat bot every three hours.

20:46 - What could the benefits of that be?

20:49 - I need to know more about that.

20:50 - Can you enlighten me, Senator Brown?

20:54 - Well, you know, I think three hours is a long time.

20:57 - First and foremost, to be on a chat box.

21:00 - So you know, that time frame is a long time for me.

21:05 - And again, there's no perfect piece of legislation

21:08 - or anything that that we have, but, I think again, it's,

21:13 - it's about ensuring that the child is not on their all day,

21:18 - and that there maybe goes into a halt mode.

21:22 - But, you know, when I, when I look at what

21:24 - the Pediatric Association was proposing years ago

21:28 - about the appropriate amount of technology for a child,

21:32 - it was one hour a day, and that included all devices.

21:36 - And we had, boy, if we strayed far from

21:39 - that conversation or that expert advice and,

21:43 - I, I do as the chair of the mental health caucus for the Senate,

21:47 - I do believe that those are the types of measures that we are forgetting about

21:52 - and what might be impacting mental health and our children's,

21:56 - education and our children's mindset as they develop.

22:00 - So, you know, I think that that piece of the legislation

22:04 - was meant to say, you're not on this all day long.

22:08 - But but even still, three hours to me is a very long time

22:11 - frame for that to kick in and to say, you know, that that's the cap.

22:16 - I'd like to see that much shorter, actually.

22:19 - One more question about

22:20 - chat bots before we moved on to our next subject,

22:24 - and I'm going to attempt to summarize some of the goals of the legislation,

22:28 - which is to discourage self-harm,

22:32 - disclosing a suicide hotline

22:34 - or text line and also not showing, sexually explicit

22:39 - images to kids and or with those, goals in mind.

22:44 - Are you hearing much, from your constituents, about this?

22:49 - Senators of all?

22:52 - Absolutely.

22:53 - Yeah, they are.

22:55 - My colleagues are incredibly concerned

22:58 - about the widespread adoption of

23:02 - AI in, you know, especially in sort of educational settings,

23:05 - but also beyond that in workplace settings and

23:10 - the in part

23:12 - because it there, you know, we have already seen,

23:16 - as I think Senator Brown was alluding to,

23:20 - the widespread adoption of technology in

23:25 - by by young people in educational settings, just in social settings

23:31 - has, by every measure, contributed

23:34 - to incredible declines in mental health.

23:39 - For young people's mental health and increasing rates of depression

23:45 - in social anomie, and sort of say, you know, in, in isolation.

23:49 - And this is, frankly, even prior to the, the, the large language models

23:54 - that we see at work in, in these AI chat bots and things like that.

24:00 - So we have to be we have to we have to create

24:05 - really strict guidelines around the use of technology.

24:09 - You know, and I think in part people see these tools as, you know,

24:14 - as substitutes for essential

24:17 - cognitive research work that we should be doing.

24:21 - People use chat bots in order to generate

24:24 - research for their for school papers and the like.

24:27 - I recently had

24:30 - the experience of having to or a scholarship application,

24:34 - and with that,

24:36 - in part of my role in a general Assembly to read a bunch of student papers,

24:40 - and so many of them resembled each other

24:43 - because very clearly they all use AI chat bots

24:47 - to generate their research.

24:50 - And this is incredibly dispiriting.

24:51 - You're substituting for a basic cognitive function of doing research yourself,

24:56 - of thinking through a particular problem with parents

25:00 - are very upset about this, and in part because we see affecting ourselves, right?

25:05 - We it's not just that it's affecting our children.

25:07 - We know how technology affects our lives as adults.

25:10 - We know that, don't we, Senator Brown, about how it affects

25:14 - our politics, you know, and and not always in good ways.

25:17 - And, and separates us from each other.

25:19 - And it's somewhat artificial.

25:20 - So I think it's a it's a huge concern

25:23 - and it's important that we act.

25:26 - All right.

25:26 - Senator Sabol and Senator Brown, thank you very much.

25:30 - We're going to move on to another topic after I give you a break,

25:33 - just for a minute, while we look at program notes for picking, on the issues

25:38 - continues our series with candidates running in the May primary on Wednesday.

25:43 - We'll have two Democrats running for Congress in Pennsylvania's District three.

25:49 - First, we'll have Ala Stanford at 7:30 p.m., and right after that,

25:54 - we'll have her opponent for the nomination, Chris Rabb, at 8 p.m..

25:59 - While the primary election campaigns compete for your vote,

26:03 - and check in with Congressman Brendan Boyle.

26:06 - He'll be here on Wednesday at 8:30 p.m.

26:10 - on journalists roundtable.

26:11 - This week, we'll have Pat Loeb from KGW news Radio,

26:15 - Todd Shepard from Broad and Liberty and Mare Rindy,

26:20 - Billy Penn and w h y y

26:23 - they'll all be here on Thursday at 7 p.m..

26:27 - The guests at the PA leadership conference will be

26:30 - US Education Secretary Linda McMahon.

26:33 - Congressman Scott Perry, PA Auditor General Tim Defour,

26:36 - Senator Dave McCormick, and Attorney General Dave Sunday.

26:42 - That's on Friday live at 11 a.m..

26:45 - On the history and culture side of things.

26:47 - PCN visits the Revolutionary Things

26:50 - exhibit at the PA State Museum.

26:53 - Find out what they have there.

26:54 - Tuesday at 9 p.m..

26:57 - It's history visits American President James Buchanan's

27:00 - Wheatland mansion in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

27:04 - That's on Wednesday at 9 p.m..

27:06 - You can watch this show and all our public affairs programing

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27:31 - All right.

27:32 - We're talking about the agenda in the state Senate.

27:35 - And we just had an interesting discussion about,

27:38 - chat bots and the legislation that intends to protect children.

27:42 - Now, let's move on.

27:44 - Senators Brown and civil to minimum wage.

27:47 - The House passed a bill that raises it.

27:50 - This has been a priority of the governor for several years.

27:53 - So how do you feel about this, latest development?

27:56 - Senator Brown?

27:59 - So this has been a conversation a long time running,

28:01 - especially since I was a state representative talking about adjusting

28:05 - the minimum wage, you know, to the inflationary inflationary levels.

28:10 - And, you know, I have always been someone that has supported it to be adjusted.

28:16 - To, to an appropriate level, but with the,

28:19 - I guess, advice or the knowledge for businesses

28:22 - of an incremental type of increase so that they could adjust to it,

28:26 - they could learn, when it was coming in, when it was hitting.

28:30 - I think part of the issue at this point is, you know, in the district that I have,

28:35 - you know, the starting wages are 15 to $16

28:39 - an hour, oftentimes for a first job for a student.

28:43 - My son started at 16 years old, at $16

28:46 - an hour at a larger retail store.

28:49 - And, you know, the wages have increased naturally on their own.

28:54 - So I do believe some of this is ceremonial in a way, when a very small percentage,

28:59 - if 1% of the population in Pennsylvania is making minimum wage.

29:03 - But I do think to put it on the record and to get it where it needs to be,

29:08 - if that's what it takes to move forward and, have more critical conversations

29:13 - about workforce development and about our economy and our jobs in Pennsylvania.

29:18 - You know, it's something that

29:19 - that I would support in a way, if it was written and drafted correctly.

29:23 - So, I do understand that that that's important to the conversation

29:29 - down in Harrisburg.

29:29 - It's important to people locally in the district.

29:32 - But I do feel the market has really, done that.

29:37 - I think we're well above those wages.

29:39 - And I think the important thing for people to know,

29:42 - even when you're putting that down on paper, any time a wage

29:46 - increases, you know, it does often get passed down to the consumer.

29:50 - And, that is something, you know, that is often left out of the conversation

29:55 - and the price of goods and the price of what we talk about affordability

29:59 - is directly related to, you know, how the model works,

30:03 - as far as wages and the product prices.

30:06 - So, you know, I just want to throw that out

30:08 - into the conversation, but I do believe it should be adjusted.

30:12 - Whether or not, you know, up to the $15 amount is something that I would support.

30:18 - We'll have to be in the conversation of how it's proposed,

30:20 - but I do think it does need some adjustment.

30:23 - And the House bill that passed that chamber recently raises minimum

30:27 - wage in two stages.

30:28 - First, it raises it to $13 an hour in 2028,

30:32 - then $15 in, 2029.

30:35 - And senators of all, what do you think of this approach?

30:40 - I think it's long overdue.

30:42 - You know, I will note that the I think the bill, as I understand it, is written

30:45 - a letter to Philadelphia to raise its wage as to 15 and in a more expedient manner.

30:50 - And but

30:52 - makes sense, given the cost of living in our region and the,

30:57 - you know, and wanted to raise the floor in, in Philly in particular.

31:01 - But this is long overdue.

31:03 - I mean, I think that the is an essential part of combating

31:06 - our affordability crisis is setting a higher floor for the minimum wage,

31:11 - and all of our neighboring states have raised their wages.

31:15 - We have not seen the sky is falling

31:19 - situation that many members, wealthier members

31:23 - of the business community have warned about in, you know, frankly,

31:28 - not in good faith with regards to raising these wages.

31:32 - New York has raised its wages.

31:34 - West Virginia, Ohio, new Jersey,

31:38 - that we do not see businesses fleeing.

31:40 - We do not see the kind of lost job loss that that people have warned about.

31:45 - On the contrary, we see people with higher purchasing power.

31:49 - We see wages growing up more generally.

31:51 - And when it comes to costs, what's really driving the costs right now

31:55 - and the cost of living crisis is, of course, the cost of housing

31:59 - and the raw materials in goods.

32:01 - And to a degree that's being driven by this illegal and catastrophic war

32:06 - that the Trump administration has launched against Iran.

32:10 - It's driving up the cost of fertilizer, the cost of gas, all of that.

32:14 - It is hugely unpopular.

32:16 - And so, you know, one thing that people definitely want to see is

32:19 - they don't want to see, trillions of dollars or, excuse me, hundreds

32:24 - of billions of dollars in investment in this pointless, inhumane, illegal war.

32:29 - They want to see investment in people.

32:31 - Raising the minimum wage is a critical way to do that.

32:34 - This is long overdue and look forward to getting started.

32:36 - A Senator Brown, what do you think of this, two stage approach?

32:40 - First, $13 in 2028, raising it to $15 in 2029.

32:45 - Why not do it all at once?

32:47 - Well, I think the stage is is a good thing to have.

32:50 - I think, again, when you look at businesses

32:53 - and how they function,

32:54 - if you own the business, it depends on the size of your business as well.

32:59 - You know, the smaller business, the employees, you know, five

33:02 - employees, ten employees would be more difficult,

33:06 - you know, to, to move to a street, you know,

33:09 - wage increase depending on what they pay right off the bat.

33:13 - Because it doesn't affect just that first,

33:17 - level or entry level position.

33:19 - It affects the levels after that as well.

33:22 - So, you know, everything moves up, everything

33:25 - changes based on the entry level starting wage.

33:29 - And so for a smaller business, it could be hard.

33:32 - It could be very hard if there's only 5 or 10 employees

33:35 - and they look at their payroll and they realize that, you know, that's

33:39 - going to be driven up by a certain amount based on those levels of different jobs

33:42 - that they've had to raise up.

33:43 - So I think staging it out is good, especially for small business,

33:49 - because it allows them to plan and allows their business plan model to be adjusted,

33:53 - and they have to see what they need to do

33:55 - to make sure that their business still stays successful.

33:58 - Now, my understanding of this legislation includes something happening in the year

34:02 - 2030, and it has to do with Cola adjustments, cost of living adjustments.

34:08 - So it sounds to me that there's already some kind of system

34:12 - for automatic adjustments included in this legislation.

34:15 - Is my understanding correct?

34:20 - Senator Saul, I'm you know, I'm not sure about that yet.

34:22 - I haven't reviewed the full House details of this legislation yet.

34:28 - As far as you know, all the little intricacies of it.

34:31 - So I'm not 100% sure of that measure in the legislation.

34:35 - I'm not sure if Senator Sobel is aware of that or not.

34:39 - You know, I'm not, I'm not familiar with that particular detail, but it does.

34:43 - It is worth noting that I think we, you know, this is not something

34:48 - that we should be adjudicating in an ad hoc manner when it comes to wages.

34:53 - I mean, we, you know, let's note that the we have not had a cost

34:58 - of living adjustment for public sector employees with regards to their pensions,

35:02 - that the state has not addressed that for many, many years for teachers,

35:08 - you know,

35:09 - people who have worked in government, who have been retired

35:11 - for many years, have not seen an increase in their cost of living.

35:14 - We should be adjusting things like that.

35:17 - We should be adjusting the minimum wage to keep pace.

35:20 - So had we done that, I mean, frankly, the minimum wage would be something closer

35:24 - to $22 an hour and it would have been predictable and kept pace.

35:29 - Rather the you know, I think one of the things that Senator Brown is alluding to

35:33 - is the potential shock that businesses might feel

35:36 - when you raise wages after a long period time,

35:39 - that's something that's that we can deal with.

35:41 - If if those increases are tied to overall costs altogether.

35:47 - So I think it's something that's well worth considering.

35:49 - One more question about minimum wage.

35:52 - Your leader there in the Senate, Joe Pittman, majority leader,

35:55 - says there is potential to find a middle ground.

35:58 - And that seems to imply that the right figure just has to be negotiated

36:04 - in the middle, and that most of the talk, circles around $15 an hour.

36:09 - And I wonder if that can be adjusted either way.

36:11 - What do you think senators involved?

36:15 - You know,

36:17 - I think 15 is far too low, frankly.

36:20 - And we were talking about raising the minimum wage

36:23 - as a country to $15 an hour

36:26 - ten years ago during the presidential race at that, at that in that year.

36:31 - That was when this became a, you know, truly a national talking point.

36:36 - And we now, ten years later, are discussing

36:39 - a phased in adjustment to 15.

36:42 - Not this year, but over time.

36:45 - And so personally and not just personally, I think when you look at the data

36:50 - and needs of people in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,

36:53 - they should have been at 15 a long time ago.

36:56 - And so, you know, there are compromises already built into this legislation

37:01 - that that, that phase it in that,

37:05 - you know, we should be dealing with we should be acknowledging

37:08 - the kind of compromises

37:09 - that have already taken place with regards to a so-called middle ground.

37:13 - I think we're we're well past the point at which we should be

37:16 - having a floor of $15 an hour for the minimum wage.

37:21 - Senator

37:22 - Brown, as you know, the state budget is due at the end of June.

37:25 - I wonder if minimum wage is one of the subjects that will tend to flare up.

37:29 - As we negotiate the budget.

37:31 - What do you think?

37:33 - Yeah, I do think it might,

37:35 - be a subject matter that is directly tied to the budget.

37:39 - Because it has been, you know, talked about for so long

37:42 - and it's sort of, in the conversation right now.

37:46 - I think those details of the given the take,

37:50 - those small provisions that we're talking about in there

37:53 - of exactly how things will work, as far as the wage,

37:58 - is important and because of the fact that it's been thrown

38:01 - around for so many years, really, when it comes down to being worked on

38:07 - and actually ready for votes, has not really happened.

38:10 - And I think now there might be that opportunity.

38:13 - And this is the time where I dig in, the other senators dig in,

38:17 - and we look at the true facts of where that number should be, where it

38:22 - what it would mean for the economy, what it would mean to Pennsylvania,

38:26 - you know, compare it to other states.

38:27 - I think now is the time where it's actually,

38:31 - being strongly discussed for a possible vote.

38:34 - And that's something that I think now is the time to get the updated information

38:39 - and not just, you know, listen to the hearsay here and there about numbers

38:43 - being thrown around about what it should be or what it was or what it could be.

38:47 - And and so I think we need the facts at this point.

38:50 - And, I think it's the budget is a good time to talk about it.

38:53 - And, we're in a divided government and, that's what it's about.

38:57 - It is about give and take.

38:59 - And, it's about, you know, knowing where you can give,

39:02 - where you can take and what will be productive in the long run.

39:05 - Senator Saval, let's move on to some legislation you've been working on.

39:08 - And it has to do with housing here in Pennsylvania.

39:12 - And, our time is limited.

39:14 - But try to tell us the situation here in Pennsylvania briefly,

39:18 - just to set the table before we get into some of your legislative efforts.

39:23 - Absolutely.

39:24 - So, you know, it's not a mystery.

39:27 - It's actually why in any part of the Commonwealth that we are in a protracted

39:32 - housing crisis in Pennsylvania, many decades in the making.

39:36 - When you talk to people, when you look at data,

39:40 - housing along with health care, is one of the top costs,

39:43 - the one of the top crises when it comes to affordability.

39:47 - People are simply unable to find housing they can afford.

39:50 - They're unable to stay in the homes that they already have,

39:54 - whether that's due to rent increases,

39:56 - whether that's due to they're just paying too much in housing costs altogether.

40:00 - What did that that's their inability to maintain their homes.

40:04 - And so, you know, we we need to be addressing this, this crisis head on.

40:09 - We are short already, some hundred,

40:12 - maybe 100,000 units when it comes to the actual demand for housing

40:16 - in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania by 2035, if we don't act,

40:20 - we'll be short over 400,000.

40:24 - Some.

40:25 - So this the way to tackle this crisis, I think, is threefold.

40:29 - We need to be preserving the homes that we already have.

40:34 - And I know that we have ledges.

40:35 - We have a program in place to do that.

40:37 - That's the whole home repairs program, which I introduced

40:41 - in the Pennsylvania Senate.

40:42 - That House companion, Senator, then House Member

40:46 - Brown of you were at you were a co-sponsor of that legislation.

40:50 - We talked about it a lot at that time.

40:52 - Was it was, you know, truly a bipartisan effort across both chambers

40:57 - spent about out there spending about $125 million in rescue plan dollars

41:00 - to help people stay in their homes

41:02 - to improve their energy efficiency so they pay less in utility costs

41:07 - and to adapt their homes so that people can age in place.

41:10 - And, you know, we have an older housing stock in Pennsylvania.

41:15 - We have new legislation

41:16 - called the Home Preservation Program, again, bipartisan in both chambers.

41:20 - Senator Argyle is the main sponsor in the Senate.

41:24 - Oh, I'm sorry, Representative Lindsey Powell, Tim, towards it.

41:27 - And Brad and Mark Kosik in the House, it's passed the House. Both

41:31 - bills are sitting in the urban Affairs and Housing Committee in the Senate.

41:35 - So that would be a major effort if we could if we could help

41:37 - people stay in their homes, then we need to be producing housing.

41:41 - There are a lot of places in Pennsylvania where we're we have

41:44 - artificial restrictions on the kinds of housing that can be built,

41:48 - whether that's accessory dwelling units, whether that's duplexes,

41:52 - triplexes, whether that's housing near transit options.

41:56 - You know, we're not we're not enabling the kinds of housing that will allow

41:59 - people to live where they need to be so they can get to work so that they can,

42:03 - you know, so that we can reduce the cost of housing.

42:06 - And that's simply a supply and demand question.

42:08 - We're not producing enough housing supply to meet the demand.

42:12 - And there are a number of ways to remove those restrictions

42:15 - so that we can build the amount of housing that we need.

42:18 - And finally, I think we need to be protecting people

42:20 - and that's in particular that's, you know, I'll mention renters.

42:25 - 50% a half of

42:26 - renters in Pennsylvania are cost burdened, meaning they pay nearly a third.

42:30 - They pay a third of their income in rent.

42:34 - We need to be addressing that.

42:35 - And there are a number of different ways to help renters.

42:38 - And so, you know, I,

42:40 - glad that the governor has introduced his housing action plan

42:44 - that he's calling for $1 billion in critical infrastructure spending,

42:48 - some proportion of which would go to helping produce affordable housing.

42:53 - And I think this is a good start for getting towards the housing picture

42:57 - that we need so that people can find safe, healthy homes that they can live in.

43:02 - All right.

43:02 - Thank you very much, Senator Saval.

43:05 - Senator Brown, let's move on to something you're working on.

43:07 - It has to do with data centers.

43:09 - A lot of conversation around proposed data centers here in Pennsylvania.

43:14 - And your bill requires a third party

43:16 - to do a water analysis as part of developing data centers.

43:22 - Why is that important to you?

43:25 - So data

43:26 - centers are a huge conversation across the country.

43:29 - We go back to how we started this conversation with the AI in the chat

43:33 - boxes and,

43:35 - you know, kind of taking on this new aspect of our modern world.

43:40 - And the data centers are what hold

43:42 - that that energy and that data that we need,

43:46 - for every piece of this modern world that we have.

43:49 - And so there's no doubt that the data centers are needed.

43:53 - But where they're put and how they're done to me is extremely important.

43:58 - And this is a very interesting subject.

44:01 - I don't think this goes into a political party spectrum.

44:06 - I think this goes into doing things right.

44:09 - And so if we're going to create these,

44:14 - data, data centers, we will say it a little differently.

44:18 - Where they go plays a tremendous role.

44:22 - And I'm seeing them in my district based on local government decisions,

44:27 - which have been very disappointing to me as far as being

44:31 - prepared with ordinances,

44:34 - ensuring that the ordinance was were drafted

44:37 - correctly so that they were put in the correct places.

44:41 - They were not in residential areas, they were not in backyards,

44:45 - they were not put in places where people felt uncomfortable with,

44:49 - the water usage, the electric usage, the safety usage, the the broad aspect

44:54 - that they bring to an area and, that has that has fallen.

44:58 - Senator Brown, tell me more about the water analysis aspect of it.

45:02 - Yeah.

45:02 - So the why why you're why you're zeroing in on that.

45:05 - Yeah.

45:06 - And I'm sorry, the water analysis piece really comes down to say

45:10 - I've seen these these be put in the wrong places.

45:14 - And the water analysis,

45:16 - there's a lot of water used with these data facilities.

45:21 - And so there is what we call a closed loop system, which does recycle the water.

45:26 - But there's still a lot of questions on how much water usage is being done.

45:30 - And I think the short term usage and knowledge base

45:34 - of exactly how much water is being used, the long term viability

45:38 - of that being provided, and any effects that that might have on a local community

45:44 - where the center is located by is extremely important.

45:47 - And third party to me is extremely important, so that we know

45:50 - the information is not guided in one direction or another.

45:53 - And, you know where where I have, district, we have a lot of wells.

45:58 - And so, you know, that's also a concern.

46:00 - How is that going to impact their water supply as well?

46:03 - Well, here's another aspect of your bill, Senator Brown.

46:06 - It has to do with limiting data centers in residential areas.

46:10 - So immediately

46:11 - I think of your constituents and they must be giving you some feedback.

46:15 - I think it yeah.

46:17 - And like I said before, you know, being put into residential areas

46:20 - in backyards, to me, you know, no one wants that.

46:24 - No one believes that they should be there.

46:26 - And so where you put them is extremely important, and I believe industrial zones

46:32 - or zones of that nature of property that is not used for anything else, or

46:37 - can't be used for anything else in certain manners, is the best place to put them.

46:41 - It's common sense.

46:43 - And, I think it's, you know, has some variability in that

46:46 - and how we move forward with that legislation

46:49 - on what really can work and what's feasible.

46:51 - But I don't believe residential areas, I don't believe

46:54 - close to residential areas.

46:56 - And I don't believe, you know, they should put in places where,

46:59 - you know, people feel that they're uncomfortable with them.

47:02 - And I think it's common sense.

47:04 - Senator Brown, just one more question about data centers

47:07 - via reports that you have a bill with Amanda Cappelletti

47:11 - to pause so called hyperscale data centers.

47:15 - And now that I hear

47:16 - that word hyperscale, it occurs to me maybe we should get used to hearing it.

47:20 - It sounds like it might be important.

47:21 - What does it mean.

47:23 - Yeah. Hyperscale.

47:24 - You know, there aren't there are data centers that are just one building.

47:27 - You wouldn't know that they're even there.

47:30 - They look like an office building.

47:32 - They look nice.

47:33 - You know,

47:33 - when you start talking about hyperscale, you start talking about we call campuses.

47:38 - There's 14 buildings or 16 buildings.

47:40 - There's 30 buildings.

47:41 - And, there are major, major,

47:45 - impacts of visual and resource driven.

47:48 - And so because of the things that I have seen happening

47:52 - locally within my district, with the development of data centers,

47:56 - the questions that I have not seen answered,

47:59 - I want to make sure we do it right.

48:02 - And I firmly believe a pause is a good thing, to make sure

48:07 - that we get everything in order and that we do it correctly.

48:11 - We support a need for the AI and the modern world,

48:16 - but we make sure that while we do it, we make sure we do what we take.

48:19 - We take care of our resources and our people and our energy and energy

48:23 - prices don't go up.

48:25 - There's a lot of things that need to be firmed up and done correctly.

48:29 - Senator Brown, thank you very much.

48:30 - Let's move on to a totally different subject and centers of all.

48:33 - I'd like you

48:34 - to start this discussion about the fact that the governor signed into law,

48:40 - legislation that would

48:41 - allow bars to stay open until 4 a.m.

48:45 - during, the World Cup.

48:47 - How did you vote on this and why?

48:49 - And we have less than two minutes left in this segment.

48:53 - So I, I supported this legislation.

48:56 - I voted voted yes on it.

48:58 - So let's you know, basically this

49:02 - resembles legislation that we've done in previous

49:05 - big events that we've had in in Philadelphia,

49:08 - for example, when the Democratic National Convention

49:11 - came to Philadelphia, bar hours were extended during that period.

49:15 - This is a longer extension.

49:17 - It's during the time of World Cup games, not just the games

49:20 - that are being played in Philadelphia, the games the the duration of the World

49:24 - Cup more generally, which of course, those games are taking place in North America.

49:29 - We the idea being is that, you know, that certain bars in Philadelphia

49:34 - that have that have already passed certain other kinds of restrictions in the city

49:39 - that have a,

49:41 - designation could could

49:43 - apply to its hours to 4 a.m.

49:47 - to accommodate people. Who are you?

49:50 - We're going to have a lot of people traveling to Philadelphia to visit,

49:54 - to see World Cup games, to there's going to be a lot of

49:59 - outdoor, you know, events.

50:01 - Regarding the World Cup.

50:02 - You know, this is a major international event.

50:05 - And so I think this is a way to capture some of the revenue

50:08 - that we might not otherwise have.

50:10 - Mike, thanks very much.

50:12 - Our guests have been Senator Nickeil Saval and Senator Rosemary Brown.

50:18 - Thank you for joining us.

50:20 - PC Ellen France talked to Representative Jennifer O'Mara

50:24 - about paid family leave.

50:30 - Welcome to our program.

50:32 - The Pennsylvania House recently passed her legislation titled the Family Care Act.

50:36 - What would this bill do?

50:39 - Well, first, thank you very much for having me.

50:41 - And, the Pennsylvania Care Pennsylvania Family Care Act,

50:45 - or House Bill 200, would create a paid leave program for Pennsylvania workers

50:50 - that would provide 12 weeks of paid leave if they are welcoming

50:54 - a child into the world, caring for themselves,

50:58 - dealing with a military,

51:02 - a military assignment

51:03 - or if they are dealing with or caring for a sick family member.

51:09 - What is Pennsylvania's current policy regarding family leave?

51:13 - So we don't have one.

51:14 - We are one of more than two dozen.

51:17 - I think there are only 13 states in the country that currently offer one.

51:22 - So we are one of the states that do not,

51:25 - right now, if you are experiencing any of the things that I just mentioned,

51:29 - the only option that you have in Pennsylvania is under FMLA.

51:33 - So you are if you're eligible, you can go out for up

51:37 - to 12 weeks of unpaid leave and your job will be protected.

51:41 - We also do have, short term disability, which

51:44 - some people end up using when they have children, for example.

51:48 - But in terms of paid leave, we have no benefit right now.

51:52 - What inspired you to propose this legislation?

51:56 - So I try to legislate based on personal experience

52:01 - or experiences that I hear from my community.

52:04 - And one of the things that I have heard over and over and over again

52:08 - is that too many people are being forced between caring

52:12 - for themselves or their family member and earning a paycheck.

52:16 - Or too many families are choosing not to have kids or not to have more kids

52:20 - because they can't afford childcare and they can't even afford the time

52:24 - it takes to take off to welcome a new baby into the world.

52:27 - I also saw this in real time.

52:30 - My mom had an unexpected baby when I was 18 years old,

52:34 - and she had to go back to work.

52:37 - She was a school bus driver,

52:38 - and she had to go back to work at three weeks postpartum

52:41 - in order to keep our health benefits through the summer.

52:44 - And so I was at home at 18, taking care of a newborn.

52:48 - And my mom was lucky to have that situation.

52:52 - I then, grew up, married a disabled combat veteran who worked

52:57 - in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and he has two Purple Hearts.

53:01 - He's suffered from multiple gunshot wounds and other injuries.

53:04 - And sometimes just working itself is really hard on him.

53:08 - And he was denied FMLA because he was one month shy,

53:13 - when he needed it at his last employer.

53:16 - So he ended up leaving the workforce altogether and is now a disabled

53:20 - combat veteran.

53:21 - And then through lived experience.

53:23 - I'm a mom of two kids.

53:25 - When I had my first daughter in 2022, I came back to work four weeks later

53:30 - because as a legislator, I felt a lot of pressure

53:34 - to be in session, to not miss work.

53:36 - Because we don't we our staff have leave.

53:40 - If you work for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, there's some employers provided,

53:46 - by choice.

53:47 - But as a legislator, I just have to be responsible for my schedule.

53:51 - When I had my first kid and I came back to work.

53:54 - So early, I dealt with postpartum depression, I couldn't.

53:58 - I had trouble feeding my daughter, breastfeeding.

54:01 - So her health was literally impacted by my stress.

54:05 - And so when I had my second child, it was a C-section.

54:08 - It was in 2025.

54:09 - I was working on this bill, and I felt a real responsibility

54:13 - to lead by example and also take care of myself and my family.

54:18 - And so I took the 12 weeks and I

54:20 - it was a huge, profoundly different experience.

54:25 - But in that time, my husband got sick and dealt with a surgery and complications.

54:30 - So my life has been very chaotic, but

54:33 - my life is very similar to the life of most Pennsylvanians, right?

54:38 - We need flexibility.

54:40 - We need to be able to care for our families,

54:42 - and we need to be able to still receive a paycheck.

54:45 - And so I feel like a dog with a bone,

54:48 - but I I'm really motivated to make this bill become law.

54:53 - And I know we still have a long way to go.

54:56 - But it needs to happen.

54:59 - What have your

55:00 - constituents said about this legislation?

55:03 - So overall, this legislation has been

55:07 - the I think

55:09 - we've received the most feedback

55:11 - and I have post, I posted a video online and there are hundreds of comments

55:17 - in there from people that live in my district, my county or the state

55:22 - sharing stories about just how badly they need this benefit

55:26 - because of what they're dealing with right now.

55:29 - These are parents talking about

55:32 - leaving the state or thinking about leaving the state to have more kids.

55:36 - Parents whose kids have cancer and they can't get off

55:38 - work to take their kid to chemo.

55:40 - I mean, I, I feel like I touched a nerve because so many people are reaching out

55:46 - and they're sharing these really heartbreaking stories,

55:50 - about their current lives, their current situation.

55:53 - And this bill give gave them hope.

55:55 - So now I feel a real sense of urgency to get it over the finish line,

55:59 - because the last thing I want to do is give people a false sense of hope.

56:03 - Representative Jennifer O'Mara, thank you for your time.

56:07 - Thank you.

56:10 - Thanks to Ellen for that interview.

56:12 - Before we go, reminder about on the issues tomorrow,

56:16 - our series with the candidates in the May primary continues.

56:20 - We'll have two Democrats running for Congress in Pennsylvania's District three.

56:25 - First, we'll have Ala Stanford at 7:30 p.m.

56:29 - and right after that, Chris Rabb at 8 p.m..

56:33 - That's it for the PC and Capitol preview.

56:35 - I'm Larry Casper. Thanks for watching.