00:00 - Thank you, Secretary Rowe and your team for your flexibility with scheduling

00:03 - this hearing.

00:04 - Obviously, due to the snowstorm about a week and a half ago,

00:07 - I believe you were supposed to be, our lead off hitter back on that Monday.

00:11 - But, you know, weather got to us.

00:13 - But, we don't want to dip into our summer recess, like, in school.

00:17 - And so we had to make up for it with, with a snow day.

00:20 - All right.

00:21 - So for everyone with us today are representatives from the Department

00:25 - of Education and Attendance.

00:26 - We have Kerry Rose, Secretary of Education.

00:28 - Amy Lena, deputy secretary for elementary and secondary education.

00:32 - Lynette Kuhn, deputy secretary for post-secondary and higher education.

00:36 - Shante Brown, deputy secretary for child development and early learning.

00:40 - And Jessica Seitz, director of the Bureau of Financial Operations.

00:44 - Welcome, everyone.

00:45 - If I could ask you all to please rise and raise your right hand to be sworn in.

00:51 - Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give us the truth,

00:53 - the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

00:55 - And if so, please indicate by saying I do.

00:58 - Thank you.

00:59 - As reference for members of the audience, the budget for the Department

01:02 - of Education is $25.9 billion from all funding sources.

01:07 - Of that amount, 20.6 billion is from the Commonwealth's general fund.

01:12 - I'm going to lead off with some questions.

01:13 - To start off.

01:15 - First we're going to talk about, universal fasfa.

01:18 - I was very happy with the enactment of legislation that,

01:22 - we got done here in the General Assembly to require high school seniors to complete

01:26 - the Free Application for Federal Student Loan Aid, which ensures families

01:30 - have access to vital information on aid packages for higher education,

01:34 - career and technical education, certificate programs, and more.

01:38 - Obviously, in too many cases, our young people choose

01:41 - not to pursue post-secondary opportunities simply because they think

01:44 - it might be too expensive.

01:46 - This requirement goes into effect during the next 20262027 school year.

01:51 - Would you please keep us closely advised, first and foremost on

01:55 - how this is going and how the numbers are decreasing over over time.

01:59 - And with that fast for completion required for Grove, PA, as well,

02:02 - which has been a tremendous success in this first year, we are around

02:06 - 25,000 more students who completed this at the time of last year.

02:10 - So that's more of a commentary than a question.

02:13 - But obviously with the roll out of this, hopefully we can improve,

02:17 - the percentage of kids completing it in PA and create more opportunity for them.

02:23 - Moving on to my next favorite subject, which my colleagues will get to hear

02:27 - fondly for the very last time in this two weeks.

02:30 - Grow, grow PA the scholarship and grant program in unison.

02:35 - In unison. That's right. It's a team effort.

02:38 - So the data from a very successful year

02:41 - one of grow PA speaks for itself, and I'm sure you've seen it.

02:45 - Over 11,000 applications from 162 schools.

02:49 - Of the nearly 5700 recipients, 2048 of them attended a four year

02:55 - private college and university, 1914 attend a paci school.

03:01 - Seven nine 790 attended a state related university,

03:05 - and then 581 attended either Penn College or Thaddeus Stevens, and the remainder

03:09 - a two year private college, community college, or trade school.

03:13 - So approximately 88% of recipients are full time students, nearly

03:17 - half of all recipients are in their first year of study, and the top five schools

03:21 - by recipients are Penn College of Technology, slippery Rock University,

03:25 - Penn State University, Westchester University, and Commonwealth University.

03:30 - And the top five programs of study by recipients are registered nursing,

03:35 - early Childhood education and Teaching, Business Administration and Management,

03:39 - Biology and Biological Sciences, and Accounting.

03:43 - Now, alternatively, the PA Tuition waiver program

03:46 - for out-of-state students was not as quite as successful.

03:50 - We had 60 students take part in year one,

03:53 - and that's our out-of-state students

03:54 - that we're trying to keep here in Pennsylvania.

03:56 - So the new window is open in year two.

03:59 - I just maybe like to run it by you.

04:03 - I have seen, different

04:04 - guidance counselors in school districts really working, pushes.

04:08 - I've seen industry pushing it.

04:10 - What else do you think we can do?

04:12 - First and foremost, to really put this in front of our young people

04:15 - because a it's being honest about what high, high demand needed

04:19 - industries are and family sustaining jobs in PA.

04:24 - But also on the flip side, maybe you have some insight as to

04:27 - how do you think we can break into

04:28 - some other states, educational information pipelines?

04:32 - To put this in front of people.

04:35 - The kind of counter what a lot of states have been doing

04:37 - the Pennsylvania for years and poaching our students to go there.

04:43 - Well, I think I might call on you if I get tongue tied at any point,

04:46 - because that was a great introduction

04:47 - to some of the wonderful things that are happening, over the past couple of years.

04:51 - I talk about it every day. So I'm.

04:53 - Yeah, he does that.

04:55 - Well done. I'm glad.

04:57 - I would say as far as what we can do better

05:01 - because as is going particularly well, there's a saying that

05:05 - my team might groan because they hear me say it frequently, and that's that.

05:09 - The only problem with communication is believing it's been achieved.

05:13 - And that's evident to me sometimes in the answers that I give

05:16 - and the way that, people receive that in a way that I hadn't intended.

05:20 - But it's also in that we often will tell, about, say,

05:24 - grow PA or Universal fast for, one time or two times.

05:29 - And then we believe that our message has been heard and,

05:33 - therefore we're we're done, and indeed we're not.

05:36 - This is something that we're going

05:37 - to have to go back to again and again to make sure that people understand,

05:41 - what is needed and what's at stake with the universal fasfa.

05:47 - Someone might say, I'm not going to college.

05:49 - I don't need that.

05:50 - Well, it's not the only reason why you would do the Fafsa.

05:53 - And furthermore, why not keep all of your options open?

05:57 - So there's

05:58 - plenty to be achieved through ensuring that we're continuing to communicate.

06:02 - And certainly you're a great ambassador for that as well.

06:05 - I appreciate that.

06:06 - We have a lot of folks

06:07 - doing all work on pushing this, and and I'm glad you brought that up.

06:12 - I think we have a lot of, previous sums or assumptions

06:16 - as to what, young people or others may already think they're going to do.

06:20 - And a lot of times they, in their own

06:22 - minds, may have an assumption just based on thinking

06:24 - I could never afford to go to college, you know, or,

06:26 - you know, I don't know what's out there, at least.

06:29 - We're presenting to them pathways

06:32 - in a future that they may not have thought were possible before.

06:35 - And so, hopefully, we can keep growing that

06:38 - and hopefully year two will be bigger and hopefully

06:41 - from a from a budgeting perspective, we can keep, working on making this

06:45 - because obviously the most important part is we're not even

06:47 - not just getting kids in the good families thing, jobs.

06:50 - And more importantly, what we really, really need is keep them here.

06:54 - Just so critically important to address some of our demographic challenges.

06:58 - Okay.

06:59 - Moving on. Next subject, pre-K counts.

07:02 - During my time in the Senate, I've been very supportive

07:06 - of pre-kindergarten programs, and I obviously believe that

07:09 - they're very important for our children to build a foundation for academic success.

07:13 - However, for the last several years, I have been concerned about the management

07:17 - of pre-K counts. Obviously, you have,

07:21 - only been officially become secretary this past fall.

07:24 - So this has been going on for a while, and that program is not providing

07:29 - as many opportunities for our children as we believe it could.

07:33 - So in each of the last three years, it appears we have paid providers

07:36 - for approximately 3000 vacant seats.

07:40 - And in the current year, we're paying for 3500 vacant seats.

07:46 - Can you tell me how much the department has paid for vacant seats

07:50 - in the data that you have for the over the last three years?

07:54 - And if I'm correct, can it be as much as $90 million worth in total?

08:01 - Well, okay.

08:02 - So I'll, I'll start and I'm going to start with saying

08:06 - I am not certain that the 3000 number is is accurate.

08:12 - When I'm done giving kind of a preamble to this, I'll allow the Deputy Secretary

08:17 - who might have a better, lens on those numbers,

08:20 - to speak. But,

08:24 - what I can say is that

08:26 - to fully fund a particular entity,

08:29 - we are looking at, 80%,

08:33 - attendance for, non lead

08:37 - agencies and 90% for lead agencies.

08:41 - That would be a period where we would say that they are fully funded.

08:45 - So let's use simple numbers for me.

08:48 - If, an agency has ten students.

08:51 - Do they really have far fewer expenditures that it would be necessary

08:56 - if they have eight students or eight, young people in their program?

09:01 - The answer to that is no.

09:02 - And I think that's why there's this, this idea

09:06 - that 80% or 90% of attendance could, indicate

09:11 - or does indicate that they are are full.

09:15 - Just to put a finer point on it, to my earlier point

09:18 - about making sure that I'm communicating, this a little more precisely.

09:24 - There's a ratio of 1 to 10.

09:26 - We still need one teacher for every ten kids.

09:30 - If there's eight kids, I still need one teacher.

09:32 - So it doesn't matter that there's, fewer kids.

09:36 - I'm still going to have the same expenditures.

09:38 - I'm still going to have the same rent.

09:39 - I'm still going to have the same food cost, perhaps -$3 per day.

09:44 - So that's why that, bit of variance exists.

09:49 - I would also, let you know that we have several, counties

09:54 - that while statewide were at 88%,

09:58 - of enrollment,

10:02 - I would let you know that, there are several counties

10:05 - that have 100%, of their seats filled.

10:09 - So we are absolutely trending in the right direction,

10:13 - despite a kind of rocky start to the beginning of the year.

10:17 - So things that perhaps in the past weren't going well.

10:20 - And there were, there was lower enrollment.

10:24 - That's not necessarily the case at this point.

10:28 - So obviously, I mean, there's probably places where we cannot meet the demand.

10:32 - And more importantly, I'm more focused on the places where

10:35 - there has not been other demand or utilization.

10:39 - So we can make sure because we all here, no matter what, what part of the state

10:43 - you live in

10:44 - or where you may have childcare deserts, perhaps, of why,

10:48 - even if they get a company that's interested

10:50 - in bringing their services to an area where you need it,

10:53 - they also need a certain number of guaranteed slots.

10:56 - And so that's why it's tough to see them.

10:58 - Just for a point of reference, the data we're using is actually off.

11:02 - The Office of Child Development and Early Learning data sheets,

11:06 - the, from yourself and Secretary Arkush.

11:09 - So how much do you anticipate paying

11:12 - for vacant seats in the current year based on current provider enrollments?

11:18 - I think this goes back

11:19 - to the idea of what you consider to be vacant

11:22 - when we're talking about vacancy, when when we have a

11:27 - a lead agency that has less than 90%, we might say that

11:31 - that they have some vacancy or,

11:34 - someone who is not a lead when they have, less than 80%.

11:38 - We might consider that to be unfilled.

11:42 - So what we what we're showing is, with at the 3500 levels

11:46 - that many sites, we're looking at $37.6 million.

11:50 - So when I look at the pre-K counts reports provided by the department,

11:53 - I see many providers that are under enrolled from year to year.

11:57 - It's my understanding that the law requires each provider

12:01 - to develop and implement a plan for securing full enrollment.

12:06 - What are you

12:06 - guys, and ladies doing to ensure that our providers

12:09 - are securing full enrollment and filling the seats that we pay for.

12:14 - And we do have a robust program with our pre-K count specialists.

12:17 - That are working with each agency to, create a plan

12:23 - and to implement that plan so that we can get, the enrollment up.

12:28 - And I think, again, that's how we've gotten to 88% at this point.

12:32 - It might not seem like an impressive thing.

12:34 - To you or to others.

12:37 - But given where we started and,

12:41 - the fact that, many of these providers had a kind of a difficult start

12:46 - because you are working so long on the budget.

12:50 - It caused,

12:52 - it caused a lot of providers to nearly go out of business.

12:57 - And so to bounce back to be at 88%

13:01 - at this point is pretty spectacular.

13:04 - And I know that we have some areas

13:07 - that have in the past requested additional seats.

13:10 - I'm thinking of Berks County that requested,

13:13 - an additional 1100 seats, and they're at over 95% at this point.

13:18 - So we are seeing some of those small changes occur.

13:22 - And as, as we do,

13:26 - a rebuilding of of the contracts.

13:29 - We may see some of these things balance out even more.

13:33 - So the first thing I'll say is obviously, yes, last year's budget was late,

13:37 - but this issue has been going on for years, even beyond the prior

13:41 - the prior year budget.

13:42 - I hear you can you forward our plea?

13:45 - Can you guys provide to this committee those four enrollment plans

13:49 - developed by the providers?

13:51 - I'm going to turn to, the deputy secretary,

13:55 - for Octo.

13:56 - Good morning everyone.

13:57 - So just wanted to note for when it comes to reallocation,

14:01 - we actually do, a number of activities with our pre-K count specialists.

14:06 - They actually work with the providers to, put together a enrollment plan.

14:12 - We've also been, meeting with the Appropriations Committee

14:16 - to discuss those agencies that have been historically

14:19 - under enroll so that we could start to talk about reallocation.

14:23 - And we do have a reallocation plan in place that we shared at our last meeting.

14:27 - I think you might have a copy of it.

14:29 - And those agencies that have been historically under enrolled

14:31 - and have not made, any additional, I guess, increases in their enrollment

14:38 - and impacting also what we call their, program review instrument scores.

14:43 - They will be, they have been notified of reallocation.

14:47 - Okay.

14:47 - So the law states that when a student leaves a program,

14:50 - the provider has up to 20 days to fill the vacancy,

14:53 - and after which time

14:54 - the department may request the return of funds or reduce future payments

14:59 - for the vacated and unfilled slot in the amount of funds relative

15:03 - to the remaining instructional days of the program for that program year,

15:07 - unless the vacancy occurs within 21 days of the last day of class.

15:11 - And that's quoted right from the law.

15:13 - The spirit of the law is for the department

15:15 - to stop paying for the unfilled seat, or recover funds from providers

15:18 - that are not fulfilling

15:19 - their contractual obligation to the Commonwealth to educate our kids.

15:23 - Is it a common practice for the Department to reduce payments to providers

15:26 - that fail to fill seats?

15:30 - If you would.

15:30 - Okay.

15:32 - So just noting, I think it goes

15:34 - back to what the secretary mentioned earlier.

15:37 - These are providers I, I'm not sure if anyone has ever

15:40 - visited a pre-K provider, but they are providers

15:44 - who are responsible for maintaining, the classroom teacher,

15:49 - even when they're not necessarily meeting the,

15:52 - the 20 I think it's 20, 20 pre-K

15:57 - kids in a classroom to and it's a 1 to 10 ratio for pre-K.

16:01 - So just noting that we do

16:04 - want to be thoughtful about giving these providers

16:07 - the opportunity to be able to fill that seat.

16:10 - Understanding there other allowable expenses or required expenses to

16:14 - to do this program, which would be staffing requirements.

16:18 - It's difficult to recruit if you don't have a teacher in place.

16:23 - It's difficult to pay a teacher if you don't have the money

16:26 - or the funding to be able to do so.

16:28 - So that's why we have asked for that additional time.

16:31 - I know, Senator, you mentioned that,

16:34 - there's been some or chairman that you mentioned

16:36 - that there's been historical under enrollment in this program.

16:39 - Part of that, an enrollment is based off of the challenges

16:42 - that we had through Covid.

16:44 - It was very difficult for,

16:46 - what we call our essential workers, our early learning programs.

16:50 - They stayed open during that time.

16:53 - And recouping from Covid was challenging.

16:56 - We have seen some upticks in enrollment since Covid.

17:00 - And we've been trending in the right direction.

17:02 - And I think prior to the budget impasse, we were actually closer to 90% enrollment.

17:07 - And our and our providers had to work

17:10 - through those challenges, that they had during the impasse.

17:15 - So I just wanted to be clear.

17:17 - We always are monitoring enrollment and being thoughtful around reallocation,

17:21 - but we also have to be thoughtful about the needs of the providers

17:24 - that are doing the work.

17:25 - So how much money has the department

17:27 - recovered from providers that were paid for vacant seats last year?

17:31 - I wouldn't have that in front of me, sir, but we can certainly follow up.

17:34 - How many seats have been reallocated

17:36 - from last year to this year from places that have been under utilizing,

17:39 - the places that have, either already 100% filled

17:42 - and there's a greater demand or there's a places

17:44 - where there's deserts that have a demand.

17:46 - We have been reallocated.

17:47 - We did not do reallocation last year. Okay.

17:51 - Could you potentially follow up with us with any information

17:55 - showing the recovery and reallocation numbers in each of the last three years?

17:59 - Absolutely.

17:59 - We can certainly do that.

18:01 - And just wanted to note that we are

18:02 - doing reallocation this year with agencies that have historically under enrolled.

18:06 - Okay.

18:07 - There are a few providers that really stick out to me

18:10 - is under performing

18:10 - from the quarterly pre-K counts reports the department provides.

18:13 - The committee, we pointed out one provider

18:16 - when reviewing the department's reports that normally had been between

18:19 - 250 and 300 funded but vacant seats.

18:25 - Since then, we have been told the provider, Bright Futures.

18:28 - Learning Centers Incorporated, is under investigation.

18:31 - Is that department investigating this provider

18:33 - or have you referred them to the Office of Inspector General or the Office

18:37 - of Attorney General?

18:41 - Sure.

18:42 - Okay.

18:43 - Yes. They have.

18:44 - I, I can't speak on the exact details, but yes, they have been referred to

18:48 - and yes, we are investigating.

18:49 - Okay.

18:50 - Going back to your prior statement, when will that

18:53 - reallocation of seats take place and how many seats will be reallocated?

18:57 - Are you aware yet?

18:59 - I don't I don't have that exact number.

19:02 - But the reallocate the agencies that are that the seats will be reallocated

19:07 - have already been informed via writing and their seats

19:11 - will be reallocated in the, next school year.

19:15 - Okay.

19:15 - Is it fair to say we have paid Bright Futures approximately 2.5 million

19:19 - to 3.5 million annually for vacant seats.

19:25 - I would have to look that up, sir,

19:27 - just to be very clear about what has been paid to Bright Futures.

19:31 - So do we know how much was paid in excess to Bright Futures for vacant seats?

19:36 - I think we can we can get you the information that you're

19:39 - seeking specifically about about this case,

19:42 - in consultation with our with our legal team so that we don't,

19:46 - in any way jeopardize, the investigation that's going on.

19:53 - But certainly we want to be as transparent with you as we can be.

19:57 - And what I hope that you take away from the line of questioning is

20:02 - we recognize where there have been historic problems.

20:06 - And we have a process in place

20:10 - to deal with the providers that are under enrolling.

20:14 - And they know what is expected of them.

20:19 - And when they are not meeting that mark,

20:22 - we're taking, the steps to reallocate.

20:24 - And I think that's exactly what we what you what we want and what you want.

20:28 - What I'm hearing from you is you want accountability.

20:31 - You want performance.

20:32 - You want to ensure that the money from the taxpayers is well spent.

20:36 - And we have several mechanisms in place to allow that to occur.

20:40 - I do appreciate that.

20:42 - Is it the department's policy,

20:46 - especially when you talk about the sizable dollar amounts

20:49 - that we're seeing related to this one specific case in recouping those funds?

20:58 - Well, as we speak about this specific case,

21:02 - because this is, something that's at the forefront,

21:06 - this particular, agency hasn't

21:09 - received any funding yet this year.

21:12 - It is our desire to ensure that they receive

21:16 - funding only for what, what is due to them.

21:20 - And that's the case for all of these schools, I think, though,

21:24 - or all of the providers, I should say.

21:26 - That said, I think where we might have a little bit

21:29 - difference of philosophy is related to what does it take to keep a school open?

21:34 - Are we going to be able to, bring more students

21:38 - to, a particular classroom if we've lost the teacher

21:42 - because we've said we're no longer going to fund at that level?

21:45 - So there has to be a little bit of leeway or lag time,

21:49 - perhaps, between when we identify the problem,

21:52 - when we're having our, pre-K

21:55 - specialist work with, foreign and foreign enrollment

21:58 - and then when we decide, okay, it's this has gone on long enough,

22:01 - and now we're going to reallocate, which were there.

22:04 - And I appreciate the fact that, that we have seen support,

22:09 - bipartisan support for moving forward with that reallocation and making sure

22:13 - the seats are where, where they're needed so that they can be filled again.

22:17 - And I and I do recognize, I don't want to say things that are or

22:24 - in a way meant that you of you have just gotten into the position you're in.

22:28 - Sure.

22:28 - I think what's frustrating is,

22:30 - and I'm glad to hear that they're not getting funding moving forward,

22:33 - but I have a concern about what we know of now from the past.

22:36 - And what we're seeing in terms of vacancy numbers

22:37 - is whether or not we are going after recouping those funds

22:42 - that were intended to provide child care for hardworking Pennsylvanians

22:45 - so they can participate in our economy, that were not used

22:49 - for that intended purpose.

22:50 - And is it the policy that the department to go after those funds?

22:55 - And listen, I, I, I don't want to just pick

22:58 - one on, on, on, on one provider and one district.

23:01 - Right.

23:01 - I am sitting here looking at stories of another entity has 700 vacant seats,

23:05 - another one that has 244 on the other end of the state, like, just those two.

23:10 - Two combined are almost $10 million worth of vacant slots.

23:13 - Whether you come from Lancaster, whether you're from Philly,

23:17 - whether you're from out in Senator Dusters district, we constantly

23:20 - are hearing from people who want to participate in the economy.

23:24 - And but they need childcare to be able to participate.

23:27 - And if we have places that we have intended as legislators

23:31 - and we've done numerous things related to in this field,

23:35 - we have to be able to use this for its intended purpose.

23:38 - When you combine that with the fact

23:40 - and let's make no secret about it, because now it's working its way through courts.

23:44 - There's been national news about widespread allegations of fraud and child

23:47 - care programs, related to attendance, related to payment of services.

23:52 - And so the more that we can have a,

23:55 - a, a clear understanding of what the intent of these slots are for,

23:59 - and if you are not using them, you will not have them.

24:03 - And if you for some reason, utilize them in a way

24:06 - that that that wasn't filled with the kid, but still use the resources,

24:10 - that we're able to claw that back and reallocate it.

24:14 - That's what I, I'm most concerned about.

24:18 - And quite frankly, it's frustrating because, you know, we get in budget

24:21 - disagreements sometimes,

24:23 - and some people think the easy answer to things is just,

24:25 - well, just give us another $25 million and it'll be fine.

24:28 - But then there's some people look back to see

24:30 - what are we doing

24:30 - with our existing resources if we can't have this under control. So,

24:36 - Very.

24:37 - We we're in agreement.

24:39 - We're we're in agreement on that.

24:40 - Wherever there is fraud, waste and abuse

24:43 - and those terms have, a legal threshold.

24:49 - Wherever we meet the legal threshold

24:51 - for fraud, waste and abuse, we will move forward to, reclaim,

24:56 - taxpayer funds

24:59 - and ensure that they're used appropriately.

25:02 - And I think what you'll find, and perhaps may find it

25:06 - surprising when we provide you with a numbers that actually does occur.

25:10 - Certainly we're not in the, in the business of

25:13 - necessarily sharing the names of providers

25:16 - publicly and that, but it does occur where we recognize that something

25:21 - that has reached that threshold,

25:25 - has occurred.

25:26 - We will claw back that funding. Okay.

25:28 - Switching gears within that same subject,

25:31 - would you agree with me that attendance is a better gauge of program utilization?

25:36 - Because kids who don't come to school

25:38 - won't be ready to learn, which defeats the purpose of the program.

25:42 - And quite frankly, as you know, the law

25:46 - includes duties for providers that participate in pre-K counts

25:50 - and for the department in its role administering the program.

25:53 - From my reading, taking

25:54 - attendance is clearly one of the duties for providers under the law.

25:58 - The law states, quote, if an enrolled child has ten

26:01 - or more unexcused absences, the provider shall take appropriate steps

26:04 - to address attendance up to and including dismissal of the child from the program.

26:09 - Do you agree that the provision requires providers to take attendance to

26:12 - comply with the law?

26:14 - Are they taking attendance?

26:16 - And do you believe that attendance is a good gauge?

26:19 - I think I've mentioned, up here at another hearing,

26:23 - you know, in our public k-through-12 system, after a certain period of

26:26 - of unexcused absences, you get sent to the magisterial district judge.

26:31 - And here

26:33 - we're not quite sure what happens if someone enrolls

26:35 - and they're not using their slot or the taxpayer resources

26:38 - that have been provided to give that kid a pre-K education.

26:42 - Do we know they're showing up?

26:44 - Yeah.

26:45 - There is some attendance that's taken.

26:47 - That's true.

26:48 - I think the best measure, that would,

26:51 - get to the end that you want, which was, I think you said,

26:55 - that they'd be more ready for, the K-12

26:59 - and they be more ready for kindergarten if they, attended in pre-K.

27:04 - I think the best gauge would be engagement.

27:06 - Unfortunately, we don't have a way to, to measure engagement.

27:10 - So we work with enrollment, and again, enrollment.

27:15 - Has a similar function.

27:20 - And there is the need for students, like, if they miss more

27:24 - than a certain amount of days, that becomes problematic.

27:27 - And they can be dropped, from the rolls.

27:31 - But our,

27:32 - our goal is to work with the families,

27:35 - because at that age, it's not the child's fault for not being there.

27:38 - It's to work with the families and say, like, what's the root cause?

27:41 - Wait, why is it you specifically are not bringing your your child to this program?

27:46 - Do you have a transportation problem?

27:48 - Is it the time of day?

27:51 - What can we do to intercede so that we can get you here?

27:55 - And that's what takes a little bit of time.

27:57 - That's not simply a you missed X amount of days and you're done.

28:01 - We're done with you.

28:02 - Rather, this is a family

28:04 - that is potentially in crisis or a family that is has barriers.

28:08 - And we need to work with you.

28:10 - So I understand the

28:13 - the draw to say attendance because it makes us feel better

28:18 - when we can see data on a spreadsheet or we have a certitude about something,

28:24 - but there's nothing that is certain about, how about

28:30 - children in

28:31 - life and the way that it happens and getting kids to to the,

28:35 - to the provider so that they can engage, I think is what's most important.

28:41 - So do you guys do review attendance records?

28:46 - Yes, we do.

28:47 - Okay.

28:48 - I mean, I appreciate the fact that there could be families in crisis.

28:51 - There could be families in crisis in our K through 12 system as well too.

28:54 - But they still have requirements

28:56 - because they're being funded with taxpayer resources.

28:58 - Absolutely.

28:59 - And what's frustrating about this one

29:01 - is that we have a high demand for people who really want to use it.

29:05 - And I think that's why it's critically important

29:07 - that these resources are being used.

29:09 - And I appreciate the comment about the reallocation.

29:11 - You're saying it's going to occur this year?

29:13 - Yes, sir.

29:13 - Because, you know, we've been told that in the past by some of your predecessors,

29:17 - and it never happened.

29:19 - So, I mean, we, we we shared the information for reallocation

29:25 - with the agencies that will be receiving reallocation for the next school year.

29:30 - Okay.

29:31 - Shifting gears to another subject now.

29:33 - Cyber charter school questions?

29:35 - Yes.

29:38 - Senator Hughes.

29:41 - And I'm sorry to interrupt, but just go ahead.

29:44 - If I see your notes and you have lots of notes, you know.

29:49 - You got lots of notes, okay?

29:51 - And you're not the only one with lots of notes.

29:52 - But just in, in in the context of that,

29:57 - and I'm, Madam Secretary, I'm glad you mentioned that behind the numbers

30:02 - is usually some stories, that need to be,

30:05 - thought about and considered.

30:08 - And, and that's that's real.

30:12 - That's very real.

30:14 - In the context of the specific entity in question.

30:20 - It's our understanding that,

30:23 - under the bridge loan program,

30:27 - put together by the Treasury that the organization in question

30:31 - received, about $1.5 million in one of those bridge loans.

30:39 - Do you are you aware of that?

30:41 - I know, I am aware that the conversation is your your testimony.

30:45 - Excuse me.

30:46 - Is that you all haven't sent them any money, but

30:49 - the treasurer has sent them money through the bridge loan program.

30:53 - Yeah.

30:54 - It's my understanding

30:54 - that they have received a bridge loan from the from the treasurer.

30:58 - Yes. Okay.

30:59 - And that's since the investigation

31:03 - started.

31:05 - Yes. That's correct.

31:06 - Okay.

31:07 - So Treasury's sent some money and we're not sure of

31:13 - those dollars will ever get paid back because it's a loan by definition.

31:17 - That's true.

31:18 - I think what what eventually may take place,

31:22 - and I don't want to get ahead of things, but like, just

31:25 - my sense of how this will play out will be they they are currently

31:30 - they do currently have students and they are currently educating those students.

31:34 - And they are entitled to funds for having done so.

31:38 - So to the degree to which those two things

31:42 - are equal, right, then they would receive no additional funds

31:45 - and simply the money that would be due to them would be used to repay the loan.

31:49 - I don't know that to be true.

31:51 - I am not a lawyer, but that is that is my understanding of how this might play out.

31:57 - As one possibility.

31:58 - Right? Right. And so and so.

32:01 - And the best thing to do is to try not to be a lawyer, okay?

32:05 - All right, all right.

32:06 - Hire some and let them more lawyer.

32:08 - Exactly. Okay.

32:09 - That's my I, that's, you know, from my experience,

32:12 - so, so obviously there was someone

32:16 - didn't do some on the Treasury's bridge loan program.

32:20 - I think it's 1.5 million.

32:22 - Someone didn't do the appropriate due diligence.

32:25 - While this investigation was going on.

32:28 - At least that's our that's our observation.

32:31 - Okay. Okay.

32:32 - And look, we're we're mindful that, you know, we're dealing with struggling

32:37 - families usually, and, and children and families who need help and support.

32:42 - But if we're raising the question about,

32:45 - you know, who's doing the who's paying attention,

32:49 - 1.5 million was

32:50 - spent, was loaned and may not get paid back.

32:54 - So thank you, Mr.

32:56 - Chairman. Thank you, Mr..

32:59 - Okay.

32:59 - Back to your notes. Yes.

33:01 - Did you ask him about group?

33:02 - Yeah. I'm sure I'll bring it up again.

33:05 - I'll bring it up again.

33:09 - The Shapiro administration and public school advocates like,

33:12 - PSP and others, Public School Board.

33:14 - Association, have sought to reduce funding for cyber charter schools

33:17 - by arguing that it's much less expensive

33:19 - to educate children in cyber schools than in brick and mortar schools.

33:23 - I also know that school districts across the Commonwealth are educating

33:26 - thousands of students in their own cyber programs.

33:29 - Should be looking.

33:30 - Should we be looking to provide a reduced level subsidy for students

33:33 - who attend school district operated, cyber schools?

33:38 - I believe I asked you this when

33:40 - right before your confirmation hearing as well too.

33:43 - It's tough to make an argument in one direction without looking at,

33:46 - the same entities contracting out

33:50 - for IU's and others at a much more discounted rate.

33:54 - But in essence, we're giving them full freight as well for that child for

33:58 - enrollment purposes.

33:59 - I can see why why you would say that.

34:02 - At the same time, when you look at the,

34:06 - when you look at the savings that schools are receiving

34:13 - and that are proposed to continue in the current budget,

34:17 - you're seeing those areas

34:20 - where cyber schools don't have the same,

34:24 - overhead expenditures that brick and mortar schools,

34:28 - whether those are traditional brick and mortar or charter,

34:31 - brick and mortar schools, actually do have.

34:34 - And, I'm going to be very clear when I cut I'm not talking about the ones

34:37 - they may be operating from within house and they brick and mortars.

34:41 - I'm talking about the many public schools that contract out.

34:44 - Case in point and Lancaster County,

34:46 - almost every public school contracts with an outside entity

34:49 - to run their cyber charter program

34:52 - for their students at a set rate.

34:56 - So I'm not comparing brick and mortar ones to non brick and mortar ones.

35:00 - But cyber, they look at cyber charter in this fashion and make an argument that

35:06 - where they don't have this responsibility, so they should make less money.

35:10 - I'm saying from the state's perspective that provides funding.

35:13 - Well, we're giving you money and you're turning around

35:17 - and using it in a much more discounted fashion by contracting it out

35:20 - to a public cyber, provider.

35:23 - Should we have the same concern that school districts

35:26 - have when they contract out in terms of the cost difference?

35:32 - I don't want to speak for all schools.

35:35 - I think it would be worthy to hear from others.

35:37 - But if the cost that

35:40 - we're paid to all cyber schools was the same

35:45 - as what a school district paid when they contracted out,

35:49 - which is 3000 $4,000,

35:52 - then perhaps that would provide an equity right?

35:57 - But the fact remains that what we are paying to cyber schools,

36:02 - I think it starts at something like

36:05 - 12,000, $14,000 or more.

36:08 - So there is a considerable gap, in that I also think

36:13 - that there are expenses that school districts have,

36:16 - that cyber don't.

36:19 - Furthermore, not all students, who,

36:23 - are in a school district who,

36:26 - whose school district,

36:30 - has a vendor for this.

36:32 - Not all of them do that full time.

36:34 - I think that's another thing

36:35 - that has to be taken into account that you might do that for 1 or 2 classes

36:39 - and then, be back in the school district face to face for other courses.

36:44 - So I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.

36:48 - Well, I think we need to do a little more apple

36:50 - apple comparison and how we fund everything in education,

36:53 - because we also don't take into account school districts that may have,

36:57 - you know, a superintendent and three assistant superintendents

37:01 - that make more than every other superintendent in the county.

37:04 - But they expect the state

37:05 - to continue to just keep sending more and more money on that.

37:08 - I just find it really interesting dynamic in talking about this.

37:13 - Because some, some schools actually do have a brick and mortar

37:17 - component for labs and things like that that they send their kids to.

37:21 - Is that that isn't that correct?

37:25 - There are very narrow circumstances

37:27 - that a cyber school is permitted to, engage in face to face instruction.

37:32 - And it's usually for remediation, or, because they, it's

37:37 - something related to a student's individualized education program.

37:41 - So I mean, part of this for me is, is I and I see this issue

37:45 - constantly, constantly being brought up that it's never going to end.

37:49 - Right. It'll never be enough.

37:51 - Even though families have been choosing the options

37:54 - that they want and that, you know, many of us support,

37:59 - maybe we need a whole new way of looking at this,

38:02 - because right now it's based on 500 different

38:05 - funding formulas into how much is cyber charters getting paid.

38:10 - You can have a cyber classroom that has kids from all over the state,

38:12 - and each kid is being, paid for a different amount.

38:16 - I've never been opposed to a set amount,

38:19 - but I'd much rather have it that it goes through the Commonwealth.

38:21 - And maybe that's something we seriously need to look at,

38:23 - because the politics of this is really starting to interfere

38:27 - with what's in the best interest of this individual child.

38:30 - And yet again, I said two years ago, they'll be back for more.

38:35 - They were back again this year.

38:37 - They were back again for this budget.

38:38 - They had in terms of going after to try to reduce costs, that it is having impacts

38:43 - on many of these programs.

38:44 - So, their ability to have higher qualified individuals.

38:49 - I, I want to have a bigger, broader discussion on how we can be fair

38:54 - and respect the choice of parents in these discussions.

38:59 - And quite frankly, I personally believe that if you're

39:02 - a school district in Pennsylvania

39:04 - and this is your number one issue, they love to be out of the business

39:08 - of having to deal with this as well in terms of what it means,

39:11 - what it means to them.

39:12 - So more more to come on that subject, I'm going to pause right now.

39:17 - And I'm going to, start with standing committee chairs for ten minutes apiece,

39:22 - followed by members for five minutes apiece.

39:25 - And we are going to start off with Senator Culver, followed by Senator Williams.

39:32 - Thank you, Mr.

39:33 - Chair.

39:33 - Thank you, Secretary, for being here in your team.

39:36 - Last year at this time, I believe you were on the job eight days, was it?

39:41 - It sounds about right. Me a few weeks.

39:43 - So I think we've made great steps in the right direction together

39:47 - over the last year.

39:49 - And as you know, I believe at the simplistic level,

39:54 - education is about students and taxpayers because they're interconnected.

39:58 - One impacts the other.

39:59 - No matter what we're doing, it's always impacting the other.

40:02 - And without a strong educational foundation,

40:05 - we shortchange a child's future, their ability to earn,

40:09 - and they never fully developed all that they're able to achieve.

40:14 - So without a strong

40:15 - education for our children, we impact the future success for them,

40:18 - the strength of our economy and the prosperity of our communities.

40:22 - So the the weight, I think of what we're doing is just

40:27 - it just matters in every aspect of our lives.

40:30 - I want to just start by talking about structured literacy, which I

40:34 - think was our number one.

40:36 - You know, issue for last year.

40:38 - And I appreciate the ongoing meetings and the communication

40:41 - and your commitment to this issue, but I can't stress enough

40:45 - how important your leadership will be in making sure this is implemented

40:49 - correctly in our schools.

40:50 - And looking forward to working with you on this.

40:53 - I've been contacted with many experts across the United States

40:57 - on this issue that I would love to weigh in or love to,

41:00 - you know, have you, borrow some of their expertise, but

41:03 - I've seen many media reports about sizable, literacy gains

41:08 - made in other states like Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana.

41:12 - Can you speak to what lessons we can take from those states, and specifically

41:17 - how you're emulating the work of your counterparts in those states?

41:24 - First, I don't think that this is something

41:27 - that, any Department of Education can do alone.

41:32 - We need, the, the collective wisdom of everyone

41:38 - who, feels that this is an important issue

41:42 - to work with, including dyslexia associations, including other,

41:46 - teaching and education associations, within the state.

41:50 - So I am always interested in meeting, with,

41:54 - people who are interested in doing this work.

41:58 - With specific,

42:00 - specifically related to Mississippi.

42:04 - When I first heard about the Mississippi miracle,

42:09 - I naturally because structured literacy and the science of reading

42:13 - is something that I feel so, passionately about.

42:15 - I naturally dove in.

42:17 - I wanted to know everything about it.

42:19 - And one of the things that I saw was several things.

42:23 - But one of the things that I saw was that, they had this incredible increase

42:27 - in fourth grade, and I wanted to know, how did they how did you achieve this?

42:32 - One of the things that they did was hold back,

42:35 - a disproportionate amount of kids,

42:38 - so that only the students

42:41 - who had, say, mastered or nearly mastered that moved on,

42:47 - double digit retention.

42:49 - We know a lot about what retention does, for kids.

42:54 - It makes them less likely to graduate.

42:56 - It makes them less successful in school.

42:58 - And so I can

42:59 - imagine that they had a tension when they decided to make that decision.

43:02 - And seemingly

43:06 - it worked because the fourth grade, scores went up.

43:10 - Except, of course they did, because you only sent forward

43:14 - the students, who had done that.

43:17 - So some people look at that and they would say, even so, that works.

43:21 - Say, well, okay, well, what happens when that cohort gets to eighth grade?

43:25 - How do they do?

43:26 - Well, that's where you see the fourth grade being towards the top on the nape.

43:30 - But you see the eighth grade go back to the bottom because it the it didn't hold.

43:37 - So I think

43:39 - holding Mississippi up as a miracle

43:42 - or as, as something to emulate may not be the best way to go.

43:47 - I certainly am not in favor of double digit retentions.

43:50 - I'm going to simply take the best from each of those states.

43:53 - Right. So

43:54 - I just because you mentioned Mississippi, I thought I'd speak to them directly.

43:57 - One of the things that I've seen that I really like is coaching,

44:00 - and we're talking about coaching, for, for teachers,

44:03 - so that when they are implementing structured literacy

44:07 - and they have questions, they have experts that are present,

44:11 - we can do that through our intermediate units.

44:13 - We can do that through Patton, our training, network that offers

44:18 - excellent support in this regard.

44:21 - And I think

44:22 - that would be something that would absolutely be worth going for.

44:25 - And some states that have seen major gains have used coaching as an example.

44:30 - And that's something that we're working on.

44:32 - We have put a plan together and pitched that in a couple of different places

44:36 - and are hoping to move forward. Thank you for that.

44:38 - I mean, this is crucial.

44:39 - Yeah. So I'm concerned.

44:42 - So this is like a multifaceted question.

44:44 - I think you can probably answer pretty quickly.

44:46 - But the governor's proposal.

44:48 - Proposal, he decided to zero fund the structured literacy

44:51 - program for 2627 budget year.

44:55 - Did the department request funding for the program

44:58 - when it was submitted its budget to the governor?

45:01 - And what is the true cost?

45:03 - And do we have enough to do this?

45:05 - Do we have enough to implement it?

45:07 - These are great questions.

45:09 - Do we have enough?

45:10 - I can't answer that.

45:11 - I don't know yet,

45:12 - but something that you all did, something that will absolutely make a difference.

45:17 - When you passed your last budget in school code, you allowed for a survey,

45:21 - a required survey because the department can't independently ask

45:25 - for additional information.

45:27 - We can't mandate that schools give it to us.

45:30 - So we have a mandate, to survey the schools and all of the schools

45:34 - are going to provide to us what, curriculum they use, at different levels.

45:41 - Are they using, a universal screener?

45:43 - And how frequently are they doing it?

45:45 - And for the first time, we are going to have comprehensive information

45:49 - so that I can answer a question like that, because I'll be able to tell you,

45:53 - we have 500 school districts, and 294 of them are doing this.

45:57 - And, you know, I'll be able to to say that

45:59 - and we can also then kind of extrapolate from that.

46:02 - How much money is it going to take to make sure they're all doing it?

46:06 - They all have the resources that they need.

46:08 - So I think we've taken a step in the right direction.

46:11 - The Ready to Learn Block grant allows for schools to use that.

46:16 - Funding for structured

46:18 - question will require them to do that or just they can do that.

46:22 - At this point, they can do it.

46:23 - It is one of the allowable functions.

46:25 - Because right now

46:28 - we don't know who is using structured literacy and who isn't.

46:32 - So, it would be difficult to, to make the mandate.

46:36 - Correct. So I'd like to shift to CTE.

46:38 - But before I do that, I would be remiss

46:41 - if I didn't mention the importance of libraries in our community libraries

46:45 - and supporting this effort and many other educational efforts.

46:49 - So it's, the importance of it is probably

46:53 - better known now than it has been in years.

46:55 - The demand from the workforce

46:56 - is increasing every day, and I don't see an end to that.

47:00 - And there is a strong interest from students for that hands on immediate.

47:04 - Let's get out there. Let's earn.

47:06 - Let's do something with my education.

47:08 - So I see the budget provides

47:10 - an additional $10 million for the department's discretionary.

47:13 - Smart grant program under the Career and Technical Education appropriation.

47:18 - It provides about 3.8 million

47:20 - more for our career and technical education operation.

47:24 - Through the career and Technical education subsidy,

47:27 - I guess I have concerns that

47:29 - why aren't we giving more when we know we have this considerable waiting list?

47:33 - Well, the 3.8 million take care of the waiting list.

47:36 - Is there more we could put towards it?

47:38 - How do I get children into the programs that they need to be successful

47:42 - in earning their futures?

47:45 - And support this so, yeah.

47:47 - I join you in the concern for the wait list.

47:53 - In some ways, funding will help wait lists

47:57 - if a particular, CTE, our CTC didn't have a teacher,

48:04 - for example, and now they have the money that they can pay the teacher.

48:07 - If that were their only barrier, then, all right, we're reducing a wait list.

48:11 - But in a lot of cases, what

48:12 - we're finding that it's actually infrastructure, it's space.

48:16 - And so,

48:19 - that's not going to be handled through that particular subsidy,

48:23 - which doesn't, deal with the capital or the facilities expenditure.

48:27 - It's more what actually goes to,

48:30 - the implementation of the programs.

48:33 - So we're looking at some other ways,

48:35 - and I could describe them to you if you want, but I know you

48:38 - there's only a certain amount of time we're going to be.

48:41 - And I feel like, it's just it's imperative we provide that

48:44 - additional capacity and, you know, think outside the box, maybe partnering with,

48:48 - you know, businesses that want, those in-demand careers.

48:52 - So we've been getting some complaints, concerns from school districts,

48:57 - that are there saying

48:58 - they're using the increases in the state career and technical education subsidy

49:02 - to reduce their contributions to their career and technical education centers,

49:06 - rather than allowing the increases in a state career and technical education

49:10 - subsidy to supplement and improve career and technical education program.

49:15 - Would you be in favor of including provisions in the law to ensure

49:19 - that state subsidy increases are used to supplement and improve career

49:23 - and technical education programs, and not supplement existing resources?

49:27 - I think I'd be interested in learning where,

49:31 - what you're describing is occurring

49:33 - and finding out what the issues are that is causing the particular,

49:37 - it seems like school district to,

49:40 - fund CTE or CTCs in that particular way.

49:44 - I think we will probably be able to get that list for you.

49:47 - I appreciate that.

49:48 - Thank you for your time. And thank you, Mr. Chair.

49:50 - Thank you.

49:51 - Senator.

49:51 - Up next, Senator Williams, followed by Senator Vogel.

49:55 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

49:56 - Pleasure to see you again, Madam Secretary.

49:58 - And it's nice also to have you back with many more days under your belt. Yes.

50:02 - Thank you.

50:03 - Also,

50:04 - you know, I really appreciate our standing monthly meetings where we get to talk

50:08 - in depth about issues that students, educators, administrators are facing.

50:12 - And I really appreciate that conversation.

50:14 - So today I want to focus on a few areas, and starting with where my,

50:19 - co-chair, Senator Culver, left off career and tech ed,

50:23 - it gets a lot of shout outs in this building.

50:25 - We talk about a lot where

50:27 - we're still struggling to make sure we invest enough in career and tech ed.

50:30 - And as a result, as Senator Culver mentioned, our,

50:33 - you know, our some of our CTE programs are busting at the seams.

50:37 - In my district, BD has over

50:40 - 600 students on their wait list for next school year.

50:43 - And that's just one of the career centers in my district.

50:46 - I have I have three CTCs.

50:48 - And I know that from talking to CTE, CTE administrators,

50:53 - those wait lists are like a combo of kind of what you were getting into.

50:57 - It's a result of aging infrastructure.

50:59 - There's there's not enough space for them.

51:01 - There's not enough equipment or money to start a new program.

51:04 - For instance, the lack of predictable funding and difficulty recruiting

51:08 - and retaining educators for certain programs, especially like

51:11 - diesel tech, for instance, I've heard that being one,

51:14 - all of which I'd love to do something about.

51:17 - In the

51:18 - meantime, you and I are started working on legislation

51:21 - that would help alleviate one of those pressures, which is,

51:25 - a no cost, change to the end of program exam timing, the not the exam.

51:30 - Can you share a little bit about what

51:33 - with the committee, what that is and how that

51:37 - and maybe some other things would help remove barriers to CTE for kids.

51:41 - I'm really excited about, this, this bill

51:46 - that would allow the not the exam instead of being taken in 12th grade,

51:51 - which is what's required currently,

51:54 - that students would be able to take it at the end of their program,

51:57 - which in most cases would likely be 11th grade.

52:01 - If it's not 12th grade, would then likely be 11th grade.

52:05 - So while the information is fresh,

52:07 - once they have immediately finished, they can then take that NOC.

52:10 - D if those students then are leaving those seats,

52:14 - other students can come in that were on the, on the wait list

52:18 - and we can significantly reduce, the wait list.

52:22 - At the same time, we're not giving up on the students who finished early.

52:26 - We can come up with, innovative things to reimagine their senior year.

52:30 - And that's something that I've also heard some, bipartisan support

52:34 - on, on saying, what can we do differently in that senior year?

52:38 - And I think there's a lot

52:39 - of excellent ways to engage students in their senior year.

52:42 - If they were allowed to take the knocked in 11th grade, great.

52:47 - Switching.

52:48 - I love libraries.

52:50 - And I love how they support communities.

52:53 - I love how they serve as third spaces.

52:55 - One of my favorite things

52:57 - I've done as a legislator is I did a, piece pizza and puzzles party

53:02 - at the Shaler Hills Shaler, North Hills Library in November of 2024.

53:06 - We didn't have an agenda.

53:08 - We did have a speaker.

53:09 - It was just a chance for people

53:10 - to get together and work on puzzles, have some food and talk.

53:15 - And there was a lovely group of ladies who were former nurses who were like,

53:18 - we're going to talk about health care

53:20 - while they're they're doing their their puzzles.

53:22 - And we're going to figure out a way where we can lobby

53:23 - our legislators about more health care funding.

53:25 - So just like cool stuff just happened organically.

53:28 - But it doesn't happen

53:30 - unless we invest in our public libraries and have those public spaces.

53:34 - Last year, I was proud to help and be part of the securing $5 million

53:37 - increase in public library funding that has long been flat funding.

53:44 - But I know that our libraries

53:45 - also rely on a combination of state funding and federal funding.

53:50 - Which, to say the least, continues to be uncertain.

53:53 - Can you share how PD utilizes its federal library funding,

53:57 - and how the potential elimination of this funding

54:00 - would impact our public libraries across the state?

54:03 - I can the funding that we receive from,

54:06 - the federal government, goes by the acronym Imls.

54:10 - That funding does a lot

54:14 - for the Commonwealth's public library systems.

54:17 - And the Office of Commonwealth Libraries,

54:21 - one of the things that it does that everyone benefits from

54:25 - is to pay for the subscription, to power library

54:30 - and power library allows equal access to information

54:35 - across the state in a virtual format, including government documents.

54:40 - It, carries multiple subscriptions

54:44 - that allow for robust research and the like,

54:48 - and I know that there are,

54:50 - I think it's something like 50% of,

54:55 - Pennsylvania schools only have one, opportunity

54:59 - for online subscriptions that they can afford.

55:02 - No, other than what is given to them through the, power library.

55:08 - So to remove that, I think, would be particularly detrimental, if we

55:12 - if we lost the imls funding and lost power library, that would be,

55:17 - devastating to a lot of libraries, both public and school libraries.

55:22 - Thank you for sharing that.

55:23 - It's really important that we, protect that money

55:26 - so that when we're growing our state money that we can do more in our libraries.

55:29 - So thank you.

55:30 - When I sat on the Basic Funding Commission,

55:35 - every single testifier, everyone talked about special education funding.

55:40 - They explained how it that if we don't fully fund,

55:43 - special education and don't align our funding formula to the current needs,

55:47 - schools are going to continue robbing Peter to pay Paul.

55:51 - And just because those are federally mandated cost,

55:55 - did you talk a little bit about PDS progress around the additional data

56:00 - collection requirements for special education expenditures and

56:06 - the special Ed Funding Commission has been delayed a number of times.

56:09 - The reconstitution that we have, that, commission,

56:12 - because we haven't done it since Covid, and there have been a lot of changes.

56:16 - If you talk to any administrator,

56:18 - there's been an increase in their special education costs post-Covid.

56:21 - Will you join me in opposing any efforts to further delay

56:24 - the Special Ed Funding Commission?

56:27 - I welcome the opportunity to talk about,

56:30 - well, really all things education, but in particular

56:36 - the, the places where there is a stress

56:39 - on all sectors of public education.

56:42 - And this is one that crosses, cyber,

56:46 - brick and mortar charter and traditional schools.

56:49 - The, exponential growth in costs

56:53 - related to special education students with special education needs,

56:58 - is absolutely a stress on on school budgets

57:02 - and schools universally wanting to

57:05 - to provide students what they need in order to be successful.

57:10 - Necessitates our continued conversation about this.

57:13 - So I welcome the opportunity, to talk about the the formula,

57:17 - what's working,

57:18 - what's not, and to make sure that we bring the right people to the table,

57:22 - which isn't just, the General Assembly

57:25 - and it's not just the Department of Education, but it's practitioners

57:29 - who can talk about their felt needs, in, in a really powerful way.

57:34 - And I would say families, too,

57:36 - who are struggling to get the services

57:37 - they need in their schools because of lack of funding.

57:40 - I would agree, and,

57:42 - wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list, but while we're at it, advocacy groups.

57:45 - Yeah.

57:45 - For for families who may not feel that they're, empowered

57:50 - to speak up, often times we have advocacy groups who will step up and share.

57:55 - And a lot of times those advocacy groups are also,

57:58 - seeing trends across the state like we are and can speak to those as well.

58:03 - Great.

58:04 - And then I think I have one last question for, for now, school meals

58:09 - always important to me, maintaining and expanding universal school meals

58:12 - so that students are fed, nourished

58:14 - and ready to learn is something that I fight for every year.

58:18 - From ensuring access to school

58:20 - breakfast and back in 2022 to eliminating reduced lunch.

58:24 - I'm really proud of the work that we've done together, both,

58:27 - you know, in this current role and previous roles.

58:29 - But, previous administrations and my sense

58:34 - is that the program is experiencing year over year growth.

58:37 - Can you share any data about the uptick in participation?

58:40 - How many more breakfasts have we served to students

58:42 - since the inception of the program?

58:44 - And can you talk about why it might be important to continue doing this work?

58:48 - Yeah, I, I can do all of those things,

58:52 - but the importance can't be understated.

58:55 - It is difficult for anyone of any age to focus when they're,

59:00 - when they're need, when their basic needs aren't being met

59:04 - and certainly none of us would wish upon, a student

59:07 - that they would have to wonder where their next meal is going to come from.

59:11 - And I think that's what this universal, free breakfast does.

59:15 - The governor's,

59:18 - plan to continue to support this, has allowed for nearly 92

59:24 - million breakfast meals being served in this past, past year.

59:30 - I think it's something like,

59:32 - 1.5 million more than the previous year.

59:36 - Several hundred million over the course of the three years

59:39 - that it's been running, it's, it's incumbent

59:43 - upon us to make sure, first, that the basic needs are met for students

59:47 - so that then they can engage in their coursework

59:49 - and things, can go more smoothly for them as they move forward.

59:53 - Thank you, Madam Secretary.

59:54 - Thank you, Mr. Chair.

59:56 - Thank you. Senator.

59:57 - 763 Up next we have Senator Vogel, followed by Senator Schwenk.

01:00 - 02.042 Thank you.

01:00 - 03.208 Good morning, Secretary, and your team.

01:00 - 05.110 Thanks for being here today.

01:00 - 08.380 As you know, last year, the federal Working Families Act provided

01:00 - 12.217 for the Education Freedom Tax Credit, which provides taxpayers with a $1,700

01:00 - 15.645 tax credit for contributions made to scholarships, granting

01:00 - 19.024 scholarship, granting organizations funds that can be used for students

01:00 - 22.051 to attend a school of their choice, public school tutoring, after school

01:00 - 26.255 tutoring, summer programs, and support service for students with disabilities.

01:00 - 31.070 Do you know, is the governor going to opt into this program?

01:00 - 32.538 Do you know there was somebody

01:00 - 35.798 I mean, there's something the government has to opt into by next year.

01:00 - 39.612 Yeah, you're right, it is next year.

01:00 - 40.513 It is next year.

01:00 - 44.083 And you were right in reading off some of the things that the funding

01:00 - 47.644 can be used for, which would seem, on the surface, to benefit both,

01:00 - 51.457 public school students and private school students.

01:00 - 53.993 I think that's also a plus.

01:00 - 59.164 I think what we're waiting for, before opting in

01:00 - 02.592 or choosing not to opt in would be for the actual rules.

01:01 - 08.307 I think it's, the most appropriate thing for us to do to say, let's

01:01 - 13.136 wait for the IRS to put out the rules for exactly how that money would be used.

01:01 - 15.547 How much money could be collected?

01:01 - 18.574 Who would be in charge of making the educational decisions?

01:01 - 20.886 What exactly are these SGA, OES,

01:01 - 24.380 or scholarship granting organizations, and what's their power?

01:01 - 28.651 How would that fit with our ITC or other,

01:01 - 32.789 tax credit programs that already exist?

01:01 - 38.537 The I'll tell you that the, the IRS did, put out

01:01 - 43.199 some preliminary questions, to solicit feedback from the state.

01:01 - 45.911 That feedback has been received.

01:01 - 49.915 And they are compiling that and then will use that,

01:01 - 52.184 presumably to put out their rules.

01:01 - 55.445 After those rules come out, they're in draft form.

01:01 - 57.756 And there's another period of comment.

01:01 - 58.525 I think that's

01:01 - 02.161 when we need to get really serious with looking at what those are

01:02 - 04.329 and how it would fit into our current structure,

01:02 - 07.890 and make the determination as to whether or not this is right for Pennsylvania.

01:02 - 10.170 Yes, we have to

01:02 - 13.172 understand we have like less than two years to do that.

01:02 - 17.033 It's January 1st of 27, so we're down to ten months.

01:02 - 20.112 I know they need to get those rules out soon so we can make a decision.

01:02 - 21.513 Right.

01:02 - 22.614 I'm with you. Yeah.

01:02 - 25.084 I mean, obviously it's a huge impact if we don't opt in.

01:02 - 27.386 I mean, the money could literally go to another state someplace.

01:02 - 28.687 And the way I read it understand that.

01:02 - 32.558 I mean, so it's obviously this is on the federal government to get the rules to us.

01:02 - 34.727 I guess we can get this figured out.

01:02 - 36.161 Okay. Well, that's good to know.

01:02 - 37.329 I appreciate that.

01:02 - 39.732 And also, on to another subject here.

01:02 - 41.967 I had meetings with my school superintendents

01:02 - 43.836 throughout the district, and I.

01:02 - 46.863 What what are your current guidelines for dealing with ransomware attacks?

01:02 - 51.000 Do you have any guidelines per se, that, I mean, schools that end up paying

01:02 - 53.979 for a ransomware attack to get their information back

01:02 - 55.047 or to get it unlocked or whatever?

01:02 - 56.749 I mean, obviously, whether they're insured or not,

01:02 - 59.685 it's still taxpayer money is being used to.

01:02 - 04.480 Do you have any guidelines or anything to say to the school districts?

01:03 - 07.360 What a

01:03 - 11.196 difficult position schools or hospitals or governments

01:03 - 15.067 find themselves in when they're the subject of, of a ransomware attack?

01:03 - 16.068 I can't,

01:03 - 19.037 I haven't had to personally deal with that,

01:03 - 22.674 but I can imagine how difficult that would be to to restore

01:03 - 25.010 and the difficult decisions that they make.

01:03 - 28.147 It's another one of the stressors that schools find themselves

01:03 - 31.140 under related to insurance policies.

01:03 - 33.352 They'll find that.

01:03 - 35.020 And sometimes it's too late.

01:03 - 38.924 At this point, they'll find that, their insurance policy doesn't

01:03 - 42.885 actually cover a ransomware attack, that they needed a separate insurance.

01:03 - 46.489 Plan for that because it is often so costly.

01:03 - 50.102 The benefit of those plans.

01:03 - 52.604 I'm also not an insurance salesman. Right.

01:03 - 54.573 But the benefit that I've seen of those plans

01:03 - 59.578 is that the people who have them, are required to do certain things

01:03 - 04.640 to, to, safeguard, their infrastructure,

01:04 - 07.677 their internet, their programs.

01:04 - 10.489 And I think that can certainly be beneficial.

01:04 - 14.150 Schools are required at certain points to notify us based

01:04 - 17.153 when they have, a particular attack. And,

01:04 - 21.200 the only thing that the Department of Education can do

01:04 - 25.370 is to take into account any timelines that might be affected

01:04 - 27.706 by their inability to access their own data.

01:04 - 31.977 And certainly we will be as flexible, as we could and also petition

01:04 - 35.738 the US Department of Education on their behalf if necessary.

01:04 - 39.184 And that sort of kind of rolls into the next part of the question is

01:04 - 40.185 cyber security.

01:04 - 42.754 I mean, obviously they have to have their own IT people.

01:04 - 43.656 Are you doing anything?

01:04 - 46.425 Are you helping any in any way that the school districts do?

01:04 - 50.095 Tell em how to beef up their it and stuff like that.

01:04 - 53.239 I mean, some of the school districts have 2 or 3 of their own IT people just to

01:04 - 56.168 keep track of all the laptops the students have and everything,

01:04 - 57.870 all the administrative laptops.

01:04 - 01.530 And with testing going online now, I'm not just puts a bigger strain on them.

01:05 - 03.098 Even still,

01:05 - 04.944 that's true.

01:05 - 08.347 A lot of schools have had to determine how they're going to do,

01:05 - 12.742 a renewal cycle to keep their, to keep their equipment,

01:05 - 15.921 the most up to date, the latest version,

01:05 - 18.924 that can definitely be be a cost.

01:05 - 22.327 Certainly the basic education funding that they receive from the state

01:05 - 24.029 could be used to offset that.

01:05 - 26.498 You know, many of those costs.

01:05 - 26.965 Okay.

01:05 - 27.667 Thank you. My time's up.

01:05 - 29.902 Thank you very much,

01:05 - 30.637 Senator.

01:05 - 33.238 Senator Swank, followed by Senator Brown.

01:05 - 34.339 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:05 - 36.508 Good morning. Team PD.

01:05 - 37.943 Good to have you in front of us.

01:05 - 39.978 And to finally get this hearing in.

01:05 - 40.613 As you can tell,

01:05 - 44.616 this is one of the most important ones when it's very it's very important

01:05 - 48.687 to every single one of us as a legislator, I have a scattershot of questions.

01:05 - 54.216 First, what what has been the impact on our Department of Education

01:05 - 58.563 with the federal dismantling of their Department of Education?

01:05 - 02.158 What does that meant to us, and what will it mean in the future?

01:06 - 06.838 Well, it's mental, a lot of uncertainty.

01:06 - 09.865 We'll start with that. And

01:06 - 12.711 we've had,

01:06 - 18.083 you know, a reduction in the U.S., Department of Education's

01:06 - 24.380 number of staff members, that has gone up and down as, the,

01:06 - 28.617 federal administration kind of battles with the court over

01:06 - 31.854 whether or not there can be these reductions in force

01:06 - 35.400 every time that occurs,

01:06 - 38.427 we see reductions in their response time.

01:06 - 42.107 Well-meaning individuals at the Department of Education

01:06 - 45.310 just simply can't those who remain simply can't cover

01:06 - 49.472 the number of, of needs that, the states have?

01:06 - 54.386 And they also have some pretty strict timelines, to deal with things.

01:06 - 59.281 So we've seen, problems related to that, getting technical advice and,

01:06 - 04.429 and resources from the federal government, is a problem that PD has.

01:07 - 07.466 And then naturally, our job is to kind of turn around that

01:07 - 12.037 technical advice and support to liaise, across the Commonwealth.

01:07 - 14.506 And so it's has that trickle down effect.

01:07 - 18.734 We're also seeing, most recently,

01:07 - 25.484 some shared, programs where some things are being moved out

01:07 - 28.978 of, the Department of Education and into the Department of Labor.

01:07 - 33.058 There are different regulations, different, laws

01:07 - 35.227 that govern in both of those two areas.

01:07 - 37.295 And so we're seeing some confusion there as well.

01:07 - 40.689 Have we seen any loss in funds as a result of that?

01:07 - 45.203 Certainly the problems that we have had with our,

01:07 - 49.474 and that is the, ARP and ARP Esser funding and homeless

01:07 - 54.170 funding from the federal government, we've absolutely seen, issues there.

01:07 - 58.841 Would you like to hear about the specific amounts?

01:07 - 59.918 Okay, great.

01:07 - 03.188 I can just very quickly say that,

01:08 - 08.427 we are still waiting on about $100 million in draw downs for us, sir.

01:08 - 13.331 We are also, not experienced

01:08 - 17.202 in our regular grants, our title one or our idea grants.

01:08 - 20.138 Decreases.

01:08 - 23.642 We did receive, I think, a small decrease on one of our title programs,

01:08 - 25.110 but that was because of the formula.

01:08 - 30.982 So we are not seeing the financial impacts that yet that we thought we'd see.

01:08 - 33.518 But we are waiting for money.

01:08 - 37.613 But yeah, beyond the 100 million we are seeing delays, right.

01:08 - 39.858 To be clear, under the delays.

01:08 - 41.226 And we still have you know,

01:08 - 44.887 we still have a few weeks, we are working very, very hard.

01:08 - 50.860 And so, so but the biggest impact is that admin, admin response,

01:08 - 52.804 you know, we had a summer school program

01:08 - 56.799 that wasn't, you know, the summer school I went to in some hot classroom.

01:08 - 00.569 It was a wonderful program in the Exeter School district, in the parks.

01:09 - 04.507 It was called teachers in the parks, and that was federally funded.

01:09 - 07.085 School district can't really do it.

01:09 - 11.881 Parents have pay a tuition price, but many of them can't really afford it.

01:09 - 15.918 And it's such a patchwork of summer programs anyway for parents.

01:09 - 20.222 So I, you know, I think there's some impacts that we just don't see

01:09 - 25.370 that are really impacting our children and our families as well

01:09 - 28.039 in school districts. That's just one example.

01:09 - 29.508 Another question.

01:09 - 34.003 We, at least in the Senate, have passed the cell phone van Bell to Bell.

01:09 - 36.548 Cell phone ban.

01:09 - 37.316 It hasn't.

01:09 - 39.818 I don't know what the future will be in the house.

01:09 - 41.653 How will the department respond to this?

01:09 - 45.891 Will you be putting together guidelines, as you know, perhaps preferred

01:09 - 49.828 vendors or school districts going to be on their own to implement this?

01:09 - 50.852 If it happens?

01:09 - 52.298 Yeah.

01:09 - 55.233 So if, if and I think it will

01:09 - 57.936 if the cell phone ban, occurs,

01:09 - 01.006 like anything that go, that,

01:10 - 04.667 schools need to, implement,

01:10 - 08.747 the department will be there to help break that down, step by step,

01:10 - 13.318 but step by step way will create, frequently asked questions.

01:10 - 15.320 I'm sure there will be questions about,

01:10 - 19.415 well, can they have, depending on how specific the bill is.

01:10 - 20.059 Right. Right.

01:10 - 22.294 Can they have it with them but not on?

01:10 - 23.962 Does it have to be in a particular bag?

01:10 - 25.830 Does it need to be kept at the office?

01:10 - 27.232 Can they have it on the bus?

01:10 - 29.467 If they have it on the bus, could it be on?

01:10 - 30.969 Like a lot of those questions,

01:10 - 34.739 I would anticipate again, depending on what specifically the bill says,

01:10 - 38.100 and the department will be there to stand in that gap and providing

01:10 - 42.071 assurances to to deal with that when it comes, we will.

01:10 - 43.915 You never know what will pass.

01:10 - 46.942 I don't I don't it will be interesting. Yes.

01:10 - 47.986 One more question.

01:10 - 51.013 And I think this is really important school nurses

01:10 - 55.160 in our schools, I hear from them quite frankly frequently.

01:10 - 56.628 I think we all do.

01:10 - 59.598 And they are unsung heroes in terms of

01:10 - 03.993 we have students with a myriad of issues, whether they're physical health

01:11 - 09.774 or mental health, and maybe one person in a school who has to move around

01:11 - 13.936 to other schools, depending upon the finances of the district.

01:11 - 16.681 What does the school nurse, budget?

01:11 - 19.451 What what are we budgeting for that in this year?

01:11 - 22.153 And your proposal. Right.

01:11 - 24.189 This comes out of the basic education funding.

01:11 - 30.729 So this is out of the $50 million, increase that the governor is proposing

01:11 - 35.591 that, the, the faculty and staffing costs would come from,

01:11 - 40.029 I would agree with you that they, perform an important function.

01:11 - 44.142 And, we actually have instituted a new award

01:11 - 47.169 at the Department of Education called the Rise Award

01:11 - 52.684 for these non-teaching professionals, to, potentially

01:11 - 56.521 receive the recognition that they deserve, much like the teacher of the year award.

01:11 - 59.624 But this would be for your bus drivers and your,

01:11 - 03.018 security professionals and your and your nurses and the like.

01:12 - 04.596 Right? Right.

01:12 - 08.600 Again, I think, I don't know how we can influence school

01:12 - 12.328 districts to be more, to invest more in this.

01:12 - 15.531 Some school districts have actually created health centers.

01:12 - 20.035 I represent the Redding School District, one of the largest in the Commonwealth.

01:12 - 24.082 That would be such a benefit to those students

01:12 - 27.242 if we were able to implement something like that.

01:12 - 32.514 And each elementary school, as well as the high school and middle schools, I agree.

01:12 - 34.060 Thank you.

01:12 - 37.419 Thank you, Senator, Senator Brown, followed by

01:12 - 41.523 Nancy here, Senator Phillips Hill.

01:12 - 43.235 Thank you.

01:12 - 44.936 Good morning, Madam Chair.

01:12 - 50.709 And I, Madam Secretary and the team, two questions, one point of clarification,

01:12 - 55.037 I know Senator Culver had asked in regards to career and technical education.

01:12 - 57.015 Extremely important.

01:12 - 01.119 Just to clarify, it looks like in this budget, 10

01:13 - 06.281 million is going to the discretionary par smart program.

01:13 - 09.594 Through that career and tech education, while just 3.8

01:13 - 13.422 million is going through the career and tech subsidy.

01:13 - 18.937 Can you tell me with all the waiting lists why we are putting, more money

01:13 - 23.165 into the the grant piece of it and not the subsidy piece of it?

01:13 - 26.745 You know, this, the 3.8 million or $4

01:13 - 29.772 million will fully fund the subsidy.

01:13 - 33.051 And I don't know that

01:13 - 36.311 there is a direct correlation between,

01:13 - 40.616 the increase in the subsidy

01:13 - 43.786 and the space that would be needed

01:13 - 47.156 in order to reduce the, wait list.

01:13 - 53.228 So if we need more classrooms in order to reduce the wait list,

01:13 - 56.641 the subsidy funds aren't used for capital expenditures.

01:13 - 58.410 So that wouldn't help in that regard.

01:13 - 03.038 Okay, so you're saying that the the the grant piece or the.

01:14 - 06.518 Yeah, the more discretionary could be used to possibly do

01:14 - 10.012 the capital projects that might be needed to expand the access.

01:14 - 13.158 Yes. There are other grants that could be used for expanding

01:14 - 14.759 for expanding facilities.

01:14 - 15.294 Okay.

01:14 - 17.796 And just kind of, you know, a little clarity there.

01:14 - 20.098 Maybe we'll dig further into that some more.

01:14 - 23.902 The other really important piece that I wanted to bring up is obviously,

01:14 - 27.663 the environment we set in our schools is tremendously important

01:14 - 32.210 for productive learning and strong character development as well.

01:14 - 36.872 And just last night, I was on the phone with a mother in regards to her daughter

01:14 - 41.743 with a bullying issue and very frustrated by the response

01:14 - 44.989 within the district, or lack of response,

01:14 - 48.016 or the lack of, initiative.

01:14 - 52.721 You know, on an overall level, but parents, children

01:14 - 56.191 and I think teachers are really craving

01:14 - 59.671 an environment of accountability,

01:14 - 02.698 of respect and of character development.

01:15 - 06.902 And I understand that a lot of this happens from a leadership level,

01:15 - 10.172 at a principal level, at a superintendent level.

01:15 - 14.243 But as the state and as the Department of Education,

01:15 - 17.288 as a leader and leadership

01:15 - 20.816 role in this, in setting our education system

01:15 - 24.052 that flows downward into the state of Pennsylvania,

01:15 - 29.024 what initiatives and what leadership roles are you taking as a secretary

01:15 - 32.327 to ensure that our school districts

01:15 - 34.839 follow suit into the

01:15 - 38.166 best manner possible to create that that productive environment?

01:15 - 42.380 And what specific initiatives are we doing training,

01:15 - 45.407 whatever it may be?

01:15 - 46.484 Really specific.

01:15 - 49.745 I'd like to know what we are doing at the state Department of Education level

01:15 - 52.824 to help our districts in this manner,

01:15 - 54.959 and bullying is such a difficult thing.

01:15 - 58.997 And then, I think in later generations, adding

01:15 - 02.190 cyber bullying to that, where you're opening up that 24 over seven,

01:16 - 06.905 pathway, for for it to extend

01:16 - 10.065 beyond the school becomes even more difficult.

01:16 - 14.412 We have a, an office

01:16 - 19.308 at the Department of Education that is, tasked with,

01:16 - 22.720 social and emotional learning and student

01:16 - 25.823 well-being, and climate.

01:16 - 31.029 One of the things that the department can provide to any school

01:16 - 34.132 who is interested is, assistance

01:16 - 37.559 with, completing a climate survey,

01:16 - 42.006 and that climate survey,

01:16 - 45.643 the results of which are only for the school that the department

01:16 - 49.404 doesn't use that to then kind of set off monitoring or something to this effect.

01:16 - 53.918 But the school will find out where the hot spots are

01:16 - 57.012 and what the students are thinking, what the parents are thinking,

01:16 - 59.657 how those things correlate.

01:16 - 04.262 Are there particular, areas of the school where they're seeing

01:17 - 08.490 this more frequently to what degree is the cyber aspect playing into it?

01:17 - 13.271 So we work with schools on a routine basis, to answer those types

01:17 - 14.106 of questions.

01:17 - 16.874 And it's often an excellent place to start.

01:17 - 19.901 And, you know, the data is power.

01:17 - 24.473 We also have a hotline number, and I can make sure

01:17 - 26.918 perhaps on one of our breaks that you get that number.

01:17 - 28.319 It's on our website.

01:17 - 32.924 But that hotline number is for individuals who,

01:17 - 38.529 or I should say for the parents, and for others who feel like there's

01:17 - 42.424 a bullying or intolerable, circumstance that they're facing

01:17 - 46.070 and that comes to the Department of Education and is routed appropriately

01:17 - 49.097 so we can provide additional resources and support where needed.

01:17 - 50.708 Thank you very much to the school.

01:17 - 55.037 Are the school districts very aware of this type of survey?

01:17 - 57.382 How do they find out about it?

01:17 - 00.409 Do they know about it from a consistent outreach?

01:18 - 04.279 And I would say thank you for the hotline.

01:18 - 08.216 But I really do think that we need to do better

01:18 - 12.430 in all of this, to be a leader and really help

01:18 - 15.457 our school districts and really get us to where we need to be.

01:18 - 18.536 But I do appreciate what you're saying on the survey.

01:18 - 21.563 I don't know if I've even heard of that until today.

01:18 - 23.441 Do they know about this?

01:18 - 27.211 I think climate surveys are something that, schools are aware of.

01:18 - 30.272 What they might not be aware of is the fact that this is free.

01:18 - 33.451 And in some cases, there's been a suspicion for those who did

01:18 - 37.789 know, they've been suspicious of the fact that it's free and that,

01:18 - 40.982 perhaps that the department is, is assisting

01:18 - 44.395 and I think concerned that maybe the answers to

01:18 - 47.989 the questions is them going to set off some type of monitoring.

01:18 - 49.701 They're going to lose funding or the like.

01:18 - 54.096 So we've done a lot of work, allaying those fears to say

01:18 - 55.573 we're only here to help.

01:18 - 58.600 And the responses are yours and your communities.

01:18 - 00.411 Thank you very much.

01:19 - 03.848 And I think this is why we're looking at, you know, parents leaving school

01:19 - 06.551 districts as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:19 - 10.245 Thank you, Senator, Senator Phillips Hill, followed by Senator Haywood.

01:19 - 11.423 Thank you, Mr.

01:19 - 12.490 Chairman.

01:19 - 15.326 Secretary Rowe, thank you for being here today.

01:19 - 18.720 I appreciate you and your team spending the entire day with us.

01:19 - 22.600 I want to pick up on a conversation that we had last year.

01:19 - 24.402 You were eight days in on the job.

01:19 - 26.938 You've had a year under your belt.

01:19 - 31.375 I want to talk about the state Board of Higher Education.

01:19 - 34.903 So last month, the state Board of Higher Education adopted

01:19 - 39.183 a and I quote, historic strategic plan

01:19 - 43.654 to transform post-secondary education in the Commonwealth.

01:19 - 45.022 End quote.

01:19 - 48.216 Now, the plan outlines six goals.

01:19 - 54.055 And I understand that the cost compiled this report was approximately $6 million.

01:19 - 03.007 The 3.5 million in 24, 25

01:20 - 06.234 and then 2.5 million in 25, 26.

01:20 - 10.381 About $1 million.

01:20 - 12.416 The goal.

01:20 - 13.885 When will the goals of the plan

01:20 - 16.912 be completed?

01:20 - 20.858 Well,

01:20 - 22.660 we have a long road ahead of us,

01:20 - 27.532 I think, as you well know, in some, aspects, we are in some areas

01:20 - 32.027 we've been ranked as 49th, out of 50 states

01:20 - 36.932 for credential attainment, for affordability.

01:20 - 39.410 So there's a long road ahead.

01:20 - 43.748 I don't know that I can put, an end date on things.

01:20 - 46.875 What I can say is that this is going to be a dynamic document,

01:20 - 50.912 that what you're seeing is the top level

01:20 - 54.416 of the, of the goals.

01:20 - 59.087 There's going to be a lot of discussion with the 21 member board.

01:20 - 04.368 That is going to be put into, into place strategies

01:21 - 07.395 that are then going to help us to accomplish those goals.

01:21 - 12.577 The same that we do in the K-12 sector, where we say that there's multiple ways

01:21 - 16.981 we can reach one particular goal, and sometimes it's it's,

01:21 - 20.675 applying our efforts in a multitude of ways to do that.

01:21 - 25.981 So I have concerns about the cost, but I also have concerns,

01:21 - 29.727 as the state senator who represents southern York County,

01:21 - 33.798 my district was impacted with the planned closure of Penn State,

01:21 - 39.203 York campus lost more than 1000 students over the last two decades.

01:21 - 42.974 So from more than 1600 at peak

01:21 - 46.935 enrollment in 2006 to now, approximately 600 students.

01:21 - 51.115 So president been approved by the board of trustees.

01:21 - 55.253 They took a challenging step to address the fact that we do not have

01:21 - 58.647 as many students graduating high school

01:21 - 02.317 today as we did 20 years ago.

01:22 - 06.397 So in order to address enrollment challenges, Penn State is consolidating

01:22 - 11.559 its operation to save money and streamline its delivery of higher education.

01:22 - 16.007 And according to some reporting by Wiih, ten colleges and universities

01:22 - 20.101 merged or closed in Pennsylvania over the last decade.

01:22 - 23.047 And these were not just in rural Pennsylvania.

01:22 - 27.409 These some of these schools were in some of our Commonwealth largest cities.

01:22 - 33.858 However, I read through your report, noted it was only 27 pages long, just cites.

01:22 - 37.862 And I can very vividly remember the 97 or 92.

01:22 - 43.567 I'm sorry, it was 92 pages long of our BFC committee report rate.

01:22 - 48.063 So only 27 pages and

01:22 - 53.034 there's nothing in this report.

01:22 - 55.546 There's not even a single mention

01:22 - 58.573 of right sizing higher education in the Commonwealth.

01:22 - 03.287 And no matter how great this report is, you cannot change

01:23 - 06.314 the demographic challenges that higher education is facing.

01:23 - 09.427 So the number of high school seniors today

01:23 - 11.896 not the same as it was two decades ago.

01:23 - 14.990 Why did the board not discuss right sizing, higher education?

01:23 - 22.006 Well, I think we have

01:23 - 22.640 we have.

01:23 - 23.041 You're right.

01:23 - 26.101 There are some demographic, challenges that we have.

01:23 - 30.848 But there are also some strategic ways to deal with that for example,

01:23 - 35.176 one of the startling statistics I agree, I come I'm in complete agreement with you.

01:23 - 39.757 This driving a prosperous Pennsylvania.

01:23 - 44.619 There's not a single mentioned discussion bullet point on

01:23 - 48.423 right sizing higher education in the Commonwealth, Pennsylvania.

01:23 - 52.894 I think when you talk about right sizing, you might be talking about

01:23 - 58.342 like merging institutions or, where, you know, where there may be ten

01:23 - 02.971 of something there in the future would be I don't have any specific recommendation.

01:24 - 06.017 All I know is that we have a significant

01:24 - 09.120 demographic challenge, and it's not just in Pennsylvania.

01:24 - 11.255 It's across the United States.

01:24 - 15.893 Our system of higher education is too big for the number of students

01:24 - 20.088 that are currently going to be enrolled in higher education,

01:24 - 23.334 and there's absolutely not

01:24 - 27.228 a single reference to it in this report. Why?

01:24 - 29.875 So when you look at the

01:24 - 33.435 six plans or the six goals of the strategic plan,

01:24 - 37.982 the overall mention of these goals is to look

01:24 - 42.553 at the decentralized population, the decentralized system of higher

01:24 - 47.525 education across the Commonwealth, and the 21 person board is engaging.

01:24 - 50.661 That is the next step in implementing the strategic plan to.

01:24 - 56.300 We've spent $6 million to create a report that doesn't really get to the root

01:24 - 01.896 cause of the challenges facing the system of our state, higher education.

01:25 - 05.700 And I my time is is over here.

01:25 - 09.080 I would like to continue this conversation in another round.

01:25 - 10.181 Thank you very much. Clarify.

01:25 - 12.817 The report did not cost 6 million.

01:25 - 15.920 Well, if you spent 2.5 million

01:25 - 21.058 last year and 3.5 million the year before that, and the only deliverable

01:25 - 24.862 you have out of this state board is this report.

01:25 - 26.497 You spent $6 million.

01:25 - 28.532 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:25 - 30.959 Senator Haywood, followed by Senator Penicuik.

01:25 - 34.538 Thank you everyone.

01:25 - 39.300 I have three questions that I want to get to see

01:25 - 42.437 and three questions.

01:25 - 45.082 And I'm going to give them to you and hopefully

01:25 - 47.351 give them back to me in five minutes or less.

01:25 - 48.652 Okay.

01:25 - 53.324 First, could you give us a quick report on the status of the adequacy funding?

01:25 - 55.593 We've made some big investments in adequacy.

01:25 - 58.062 We'd like to hear how that's going.

01:25 - 02.700 Number two, Senator, Robinson, Kane and I have been trying

01:26 - 07.162 to get, laid out of pipes in schools.

01:26 - 10.141 Be interesting to get a report on

01:26 - 13.344 lead in the water, at schools.

01:26 - 17.338 And what, what remediation efforts, underway.

01:26 - 20.985 And then third, is this,

01:26 - 24.788 you may or may not know, I went on a tour about 3000

01:26 - 27.882 mile tour to all the state universities a few years ago

01:26 - 31.586 and talked to a number of students about their experiences.

01:26 - 35.056 One story I like to share with you now,

01:26 - 37.735 it was a freshman

01:26 - 40.762 who was obviously age is 18.

01:26 - 44.532 In her first two months, she was on a soccer team

01:26 - 48.102 and she roomed and, you know, live with the soccer students.

01:26 - 51.382 She brought her favorite teddy bear

01:26 - 54.409 from her hometown to school.

01:26 - 58.980 One day, she noticed that her teddy bear was missing.

01:26 - 03.251 So she looked all around for the teddy bear and could not find it.

01:27 - 07.555 A friend of hers told her to look on social media,

01:27 - 11.292 which she did, and when she looked on social media,

01:27 - 14.271 she saw that her teddy bear

01:27 - 17.298 had been lynched.

01:27 - 21.603 She was devastated.

01:27 - 25.073 End up leaving the school.

01:27 - 29.320 Now, we know that the national administration

01:27 - 34.425 has had a significant attack on diversity, equity and inclusion programs that

01:27 - 38.253 can try to make students feel comfortable no matter where they come from.

01:27 - 40.231 The courts have

01:27 - 43.324 determined that all of these efforts are illegal,

01:27 - 47.428 but interesting to know if you can share with us,

01:27 - 51.032 how students are faring

01:27 - 55.003 in colleges, where they may have been past

01:27 - 58.473 discrimination and harassment.

01:27 - 01.685 Is is a college experience.

01:28 - 04.712 Thank you.

01:28 - 12.654 First violence of any kind shouldn't be tolerated,

01:28 - 15.966 whether it is in our early child sector,

01:28 - 18.993 our K-12 sector, or in higher education.

01:28 - 22.740 Discrimination of any kind shouldn't be tolerated.

01:28 - 27.578 And you mentioned that a lot of, things have been struck down recently.

01:28 - 30.914 I think what I can focus on here

01:28 - 34.318 is that, the the Shapiro

01:28 - 38.846 administration's, views related to,

01:28 - 43.060 equity and,

01:28 - 47.221 the like have not changed, his commitment to students

01:28 - 50.391 and their well-being hasn't changed here in Pennsylvania.

01:28 - 53.961 That's a heartbreaking story that you share.

01:28 - 57.031 And I'm sure, you know, it's

01:28 - 00.935 unfortunately not, it's emblematic

01:29 - 04.715 of, of other things that have occurred,

01:29 - 09.744 and as to how individuals would feel,

01:29 - 13.524 naturally, I understand the,

01:29 - 17.852 why someone would, would want to leave school at that point.

01:29 - 21.556 And it would be incumbent upon any administration to,

01:29 - 26.294 get to the the bottom of any specific case of violence,

01:29 - 31.875 so that students feel comfortable being in, in, in that, location,

01:29 - 38.139 including, climate surveys, including enforcement of laws as they exist,

01:29 - 44.755 related to, lead in in drinking water.

01:29 - 51.595 The there is a regulation, that requires, school

01:29 - 54.756 districts in particular to test

01:29 - 57.901 either to test their water

01:29 - 01.562 and then if it is above 15 parts per billion,

01:30 - 07.111 they are then required to, notify the Department of Education,

01:30 - 11.639 their, name is put on, a list, and it is available on our website.

01:30 - 15.352 If they choose not to test their water,

01:30 - 19.656 then they must discuss that at a,

01:30 - 23.851 an open public, meeting where it's been appropriately sunshine.

01:30 - 28.523 The goal for lead in drinking water is zero.

01:30 - 34.037 While the, the I'm going to say acceptable limit.

01:30 - 35.739 That's probably not the correct word because.

01:30 - 38.442 Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, zero is what's most acceptable.

01:30 - 42.236 But, 15 parts per billion is what they look at there.

01:30 - 46.116 And I would be happy to speak more

01:30 - 50.821 to adequacy if I seem to be out of time.

01:30 - 51.356 That's blinking.

01:30 - 54.024 So I don't know if I can go on or not.

01:30 - 54.859 Just.

01:30 - 58.028 Okay, so related to adequacy, we're seeing,

01:30 - 03.090 that money be spent exactly the way that, we would all want.

01:31 - 06.036 There is complete

01:31 - 11.742 transparency in the way that the funding is, is rolled out to the

01:31 - 15.870 school districts and the way that it is used, we're seeing the money be used,

01:31 - 19.774 to purchase high quality curriculum materials.

01:31 - 24.455 We're seeing it be used to reduce class sizes, particularly in the.

01:31 - 25.789 K to three area.

01:31 - 28.859 And you don't have to be

01:31 - 32.863 in a classroom to appreciate how much better it is for a teacher

01:31 - 37.191 to have 15 sets of eyes on them in the K to three space than 30,

01:31 - 41.462 and how much more you can personalize that learning experience for them.

01:31 - 44.665 So class size reduction, career education.

01:31 - 46.443 Pennsylvania's leading the way

01:31 - 50.137 related to career education, particularly in the middle school.

01:31 - 53.016 We've received national accolades.

01:31 - 55.819 So we're not waiting until they're in high school

01:31 - 57.788 and instead using some of the money for that.

01:31 - 59.923 And then, of course, some of those wonderful before school

01:31 - 03.227 and after school programs that were mentioned, we're seeing

01:32 - 06.254 some of the funding be used for that for those purposes.

01:32 - 07.521 Thank you very much.

01:32 - 11.401 Senator Penicuik, followed by Senator Carney.

01:32 - 14.104 Can't find me, can you, Madam Secretary?

01:32 - 16.740 Well, may I always seem to do this to you?

01:32 - 18.342 I apologize for that.

01:32 - 20.210 I'm really glad to hear that

01:32 - 24.548 you are exposing middle schoolers to career opportunities and different

01:32 - 28.118 career fields in middle school, because I have a CTC

01:32 - 32.356 and they get to eighth grade and there's no spots for them.

01:32 - 37.018 So I'm really glad that they're learning earlier about what they might want to do.

01:32 - 38.795 How many?

01:32 - 43.400 We always hear about our teacher shortage and our stipend is a huge success.

01:32 - 48.338 It's oversubscribed, which I am really, really excited about,

01:32 - 52.142 that we're paying those young students to, you know, student

01:32 - 54.678 teach and not have to worry about how they're going to pay their rent.

01:32 - 57.705 How many teachers are we short in the Commonwealth?

01:32 - 00.617 Yeah, that seems to be a moving I don't know how to do this.

01:33 - 02.953 I know I'm going to talk in the microphone.

01:33 - 04.655 I'm not going to be able to look at you.

01:33 - 05.223 All right.

01:33 - 09.059 So, the it's a moving target as to how many were we?

01:33 - 10.028 We are down.

01:33 - 12.362 I can't give you a specific number.

01:33 - 16.190 What I can say is that we certify about 5500.

01:33 - 16.734 Okay.

01:33 - 20.237 There's a 900 to 1000 that come in from out of state.

01:33 - 25.375 So we're somewhere between 6000 and 6500 new teachers every year.

01:33 - 29.646 Which sounds like it should be enough, except we have about 7000

01:33 - 32.983 teachers who are leaving the profession for one reason or another,

01:33 - 36.320 whether that's retirement, death,

01:33 - 39.323 or to move on to some other, profession.

01:33 - 42.192 So we know that each year we are,

01:33 - 45.987 we have a deficit of at least 500. So,

01:33 - 48.498 I'm a member of the friends of the,

01:33 - 54.061 Taiwan Caucus, and I'm very interested in education educator exchange program.

01:33 - 57.908 And, we've tried to figure out how we could offer

01:33 - 01.702 that voluntarily to our, school districts here.

01:34 - 06.240 I had an opportunity to meet with some of the teachers from Taiwan

01:34 - 09.453 who speak English better than I ever will.

01:34 - 11.688 And they the program, which is now

01:34 - 14.715 active in 13 states,

01:34 - 17.852 brings a Stem teacher here

01:34 - 20.697 to teach not only Stem, but also,

01:34 - 25.026 Mandarin Chinese for the cost of $40,000 a year.

01:34 - 28.271 The Taiwanese government picks up everything else.

01:34 - 32.233 Then American educators have an opportunity to go to Taiwan

01:34 - 33.777 and to learn their culture

01:34 - 36.871 and to learn their language, and also teach English over there.

01:34 - 41.018 So my question is, is this something

01:34 - 45.322 that would be interesting in, signing on to

01:34 - 49.350 so that we can give school districts that opportunity to participate?

01:34 - 52.529 I think my question would be

01:34 - 55.556 what is currently limiting it from happening?

01:34 - 01.062 Because I'm aware that, there's already exchanges, occurring,

01:35 - 05.700 where individuals are coming over, for example, to teach Mandarin.

01:35 - 07.500 Chinese,

01:35 - 10.347 at Penn State.

01:35 - 12.249 So Penn State's doing it now.

01:35 - 15.052 I mean, school districts, school districts are already receiving.

01:35 - 15.353 Okay.

01:35 - 18.755 If I can speak very bluntly, I think it's

01:35 - 23.050 the ceremonial memorandum of understanding between you and there.

01:35 - 26.296 I literally I truly believe

01:35 - 29.299 that's what's holding it up.

01:35 - 31.902 Okay, well, I would be interested in learning more.

01:35 - 32.637 Certainly.

01:35 - 35.996 Well, let's let's get together after and we can we can chat about that

01:35 - 38.942 if I can, I can't see the, I do have more time.

01:35 - 42.846 I do want to shift to, something that unfortunately has been in the news

01:35 - 45.849 quite a lot lately is the unlicensed CDL

01:35 - 48.843 training centers.

01:35 - 51.322 I understand that

01:35 - 56.150 there are 1200 of them in the state, which that number alone boggles my mind.

01:35 - 59.996 And that only 40 are licensed.

01:36 - 03.224 How many have falsely claimed exemptions?

01:36 - 10.164 You you're taking the the numbers that, that I know.

01:36 - 11.308 So you're right there are

01:36 - 14.969 there are slightly more than 1200 of them on the federal registry.

01:36 - 21.475 And we know through our license, licensed private.

01:36 - 22.687 Oh, there we go.

01:36 - 27.758 Private license schools that are private licensed schools that only 40 of them are.

01:36 - 30.785 There is also an exempt, category.

01:36 - 36.724 So there are, many that are on that federal registry

01:36 - 40.094 that should not be that should not be operating.

01:36 - 43.406 It's hard to know exactly why it's happening.

01:36 - 47.434 But part of the issue that I perceive is that

01:36 - 53.717 the cost of the license is a little over $8,000 when, somebody is being licensed.

01:36 - 57.411 But the penalty if you get caught is only 2500.

01:36 - 00.490 So you might say

01:37 - 04.394 that you could do it three times and break even.

01:37 - 04.662 And it's

01:37 - 06.296 only after the fourth time that you probably

01:37 - 08.532 should have done the license right now.

01:37 - 11.668 That's not something necessarily the the Department of Education controls.

01:37 - 15.029 Certainly every time we find out that this is occurring,

01:37 - 20.267 we are working with the federal government to get those names off of the registry.

01:37 - 24.114 Not having them go on the registry at all would be, helpful,

01:37 - 26.383 but getting them off is particularly problematic.

01:37 - 27.918 And a long process.

01:37 - 33.456 There's like a due process piece to, to that where, there's a lot of back

01:37 - 36.450 and forth, but we're committed to getting them off of the list.

01:37 - 39.486 Is there anything legislatively that we can help with?

01:37 - 41.898 All for that answer, I think I actually will

01:37 - 45.226 turn to the Deputy secretary, who can probably give you those specifics.

01:37 - 48.405 Yes. And I know we're out of time, but I just wanted to mention two things.

01:37 - 51.474 Yes, there is legislative action, especially with the private.

01:37 - 54.635 License School Act that can help address this issue.

01:37 - 59.139 But we've also made a lot of progress with the Federal Motor Carrier Association,

01:37 - 01.918 who is now reaching out to our private license school department

01:38 - 07.047 to verify the provider that is being listed on the FM, CSA,

01:38 - 10.861 when and, when they are added to see if they are actually a licensed provider

01:38 - 13.129 in Pennsylvania that is approved to operate.

01:38 - 16.190 So we're hoping to see those numbers decline and decrease,

01:38 - 20.261 as we have that connection now with the CSA and that partnership.

01:38 - 22.863 Great. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:38 - 24.742 Thank you,

01:38 - 27.777 Senator, on just a a point of reference here, too.

01:38 - 29.946 I want to thank your department, especially Steven.

01:38 - 31.114 I see him sitting behind you.

01:38 - 35.175 We did a lot of work on trying to reform and update that private licensing,

01:38 - 38.221 with some of the the entities that help deal

01:38 - 41.248 with some of the more difficult cases and with schools.

01:38 - 44.127 We worked very hard to try to update that collaboratively.

01:38 - 46.296 Hopefully it's something we can finally get done

01:38 - 51.468 and across the finish line up here, to this to the benefit of all of education

01:38 - 55.205 and kids, that we have that service available to our public schools.

01:38 - 57.741 So thank you.

01:38 - 59.676 Up next, we have Senator Carney,

01:38 - 02.703 followed by Senator Dush.

01:39 - 04.748 Thank you, Madam Secretary.

01:39 - 05.649 Good to see you.

01:39 - 06.217 Likewise.

01:39 - 08.118 I'm glad you guys are here today.

01:39 - 09.886 We're finally having this hearing.

01:39 - 13.390 The, I wanted to ask you about how the recent increases in K-12

01:39 - 17.685 funding have made differences for students in schools in Pennsylvania.

01:39 - 21.245 But first, I'd like to comment on the impact I'm seeing in my own district.

01:39 - 25.335 I, along with, Senator Tony Williams, represent the William Penn School.

01:39 - 28.672 District, which has a ninth grade

01:39 - 31.908 academy that focuses on the ninth grade.

01:39 - 35.235 It's a turning point in a student's educational journey.

01:39 - 41.818 This was a, I think, a creative, system that was borne partly out of the fact

01:39 - 45.288 that they didn't have room in the high school for any kind of growth.

01:39 - 50.551 And, but this, ninth grade academy provides students with academic support,

01:39 - 54.064 structure and relationships that they need to start high school strong

01:39 - 56.066 and stay on track for success.

01:39 - 58.802 Over the last two years, the ninth grade Academy

01:39 - 01.504 has made significant economic growth.

01:40 - 05.141 The building of a score, for the Pennsylvania Value.

01:40 - 09.679 Added Assessment System, increased from a level of 56

01:40 - 12.706 in the 2223 school year

01:40 - 17.144 to 95 in the 2425 school year,

01:40 - 21.615 nearly doubling in just two years.

01:40 - 25.486 This growth has also led to an increase in, obviously, student proficiency.

01:40 - 29.532 So these gains reflect the dedication of teachers and staff.

01:40 - 33.169 The resilience of students, and the impact of intentional

01:40 - 36.196 investments in instruction and student supports.

01:40 - 41.068 And when schools have the resources they need, we can see that students can thrive.

01:40 - 45.439 So can you tell us about the impact of the legislation's legislatures,

01:40 - 49.543 intentional investments on the ground or in other parts of the state?

01:40 - 54.758 I am so glad to hear about, the ones that you just mentioned.

01:40 - 58.118 And we're seeing things like that across the state.

01:40 - 01.131 A school

01:41 - 04.158 district in Montgomery County, Pottstown

01:41 - 09.739 is another great example of, seeing some major changes.

01:41 - 12.809 They took their, adequacy funding.

01:41 - 16.470 That was, you know, as you mentioned, very intentionally, given to them

01:41 - 22.419 and used it to establish MTS, which is a multi-tiered system of support.

01:41 - 25.622 Basically, you find out what students specifically need,

01:41 - 30.293 and then you ensure that they receive that they purchased additional curriculum

01:41 - 34.898 and, an assessment tools to make sure that their students were learning,

01:41 - 37.834 on benchmark, meaning, if you're in sixth grade,

01:41 - 40.603 these are the things we expect you to know by the end of sixth grade.

01:41 - 43.630 And how close are you to actually achieving that?

01:41 - 47.701 And they hired, coaches and mental health therapists.

01:41 - 49.979 Excellent use of the funding.

01:41 - 53.006 Exactly what we would want to see in so many different ways.

01:41 - 55.385 And what did they see as a product of that?

01:41 - 00.047 They saw a 60% reduction in their suspensions.

01:42 - 04.151 They saw a 90% reduction in problematic behaviors.

01:42 - 08.889 They saw a 20% decrease in the number of students who were failing,

01:42 - 12.836 because they also saw a corresponding

01:42 - 15.863 40% increase in regular attendance.

01:42 - 19.676 When you're in school more frequently and engaged in the work,

01:42 - 22.679 your grades are going to go up and we're going to start

01:42 - 25.706 to see, great things happening.

01:42 - 29.352 You mentioned the Future Ready index and what you could see in the school

01:42 - 30.787 district that you referenced.

01:42 - 33.890 They are seeing that they have met all of their interim goals,

01:42 - 36.917 so you would see them as a minimum being green.

01:42 - 42.732 But also blue would mean that they've met their 2033 goals all the way out.

01:42 - 46.260 And in that particular school, every single demographic,

01:42 - 50.230 they're worth noting because it's it's not just the, the whole,

01:42 - 54.735 you know, where we can say, well, 95% of all of the students, it's it's

01:42 - 56.479 in each of the subgroups

01:42 - 00.140 that we also track students with disabilities, students with language,

01:43 - 03.553 they're learning English, and it's across

01:43 - 06.656 all of the different areas, whether it's English language

01:43 - 10.660 arts, math or science, we're seeing in each of those areas.

01:43 - 15.255 So to your point, sir, when we are intentionally funding schools

01:43 - 16.499 and they're able to purchase

01:43 - 20.427 the things that they need and make sure that they have the right adults present,

01:43 - 24.340 whether that's a counselor or it's a teacher, that isn't,

01:43 - 28.001 that isn't a substitute that's highly qualified to be in that space.

01:43 - 30.180 We're actually seeing it make a difference.

01:43 - 31.814 So thank you for the funding.

01:43 - 35.042 Thank you for continuing to do that year over year.

01:43 - 38.011 What you're doing is making a difference in it's going to have

01:43 - 41.858 a ripple effect on generations to come.

01:43 - 44.885 So on a on a related topic,

01:43 - 48.689 you know, a critical component of the education lawsuit

01:43 - 52.459 focused on the state of school facilities across the Commonwealth.

01:43 - 56.339 We have some of the oldest school infrastructure in the country.

01:43 - 59.366 And while the governor has invested and proposed continuing investment

01:43 - 02.769 in the Public School facility Improvement grant program,

01:44 - 06.707 still only provides a limited support for school districts.

01:44 - 10.587 What advice can you give the legislature moving forward in terms

01:44 - 14.514 of how we should try to, address these issues?

01:44 - 19.262 You mentioned a major problem that schools have

01:44 - 21.364 and that is their aging facilities.

01:44 - 23.766 The the Hvac systems.

01:44 - 27.437 If you want to see a business manager or superintendent grown,

01:44 - 31.107 just go and mentioned the flat roofs that they, you know, or,

01:44 - 34.668 or the like that they have to replace on a, on a routine basis.

01:44 - 37.938 These are major expenditures, for schools.

01:44 - 41.784 They want the money to go towards what the kids need and kids

01:44 - 46.122 certainly need the the right temperature in the building.

01:44 - 49.058 They need it to be warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

01:44 - 50.526 They need the,

01:44 - 54.364 you know, not to be raining down on them when it's raining outside and the like.

01:44 - 57.524 So we absolutely need to take care of,

01:44 - 00.627 the aging infrastructure that we have.

01:45 - 05.174 One of the ways that we might be able to achieve that is through the critical

01:45 - 09.403 infrastructure, fund that the governor is looking to set aside.

01:45 - 11.514 As part of this budget.

01:45 - 15.485 The schools are part of, of the,

01:45 - 18.812 of the group that is allowed to,

01:45 - 22.282 potentially benefit from that critical infrastructure bill.

01:45 - 26.386 And certainly it would be, money well spent.

01:45 - 29.432 The other thing that I would say, and I won't go into too much detail

01:45 - 34.861 because we're out of time, would be, to, to do some type of systematic,

01:45 - 40.000 survey that would allow us to know what the needs are across the state.

01:45 - 42.812 How much, how much do we actually need?

01:45 - 45.748 Kind of like I talked about with structured literacy earlier to do

01:45 - 49.619 basically the same thing and say how much is it really going to take in order

01:45 - 53.213 to get the schools up to where that they we think that they should be?

01:45 - 57.393 And maybe one of the issues there is that we're we're all incredibly frightened

01:45 - 58.761 as to what that would be.

01:45 - 02.498 You and me both show, and, you know, I was hopeful

01:46 - 06.393 that coming out of the pandemic, school facilities and in particular.

01:46 - 09.972 Hvac systems was one of the lessons we should have learned

01:46 - 11.541 and should have acted on.

01:46 - 14.310 Actually, then, but

01:46 - 17.880 we have not really done it so far yet in the, Yeah.

01:46 - 21.617 And if they did act on the Hvac, then the roof still needs done.

01:46 - 25.712 If they did the Hvac in the roof, then they still need mental health counselors.

01:46 - 28.858 You know, there's there's so much that goes into it.

01:46 - 32.452 So I, I appreciate you, bringing up the issue

01:46 - 35.431 and being willing to talk about it and find a way forward.

01:46 - 36.655 Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman.

01:46 - 40.636 Senator, followed by Senator Robinson.

01:46 - 41.538 Thank you. Chairman.

01:46 - 45.341 Deputy Brown, I hadn't planned on doing this line of questioning,

01:46 - 47.110 but given an earlier line of questioning,

01:46 - 50.137 I think it's important to get, a few things on the record.

01:46 - 53.416 Regarding bright futures, when did you know

01:46 - 55.284 they were under investigation?

01:46 - 57.720 Senator, I cannot continue

01:46 - 00.781 to talk about the bright futures issue.

01:47 - 04.527 As some of the questions could preclude

01:47 - 07.554 the current investigation.

01:47 - 10.199 Knowing what time

01:47 - 13.226 or when you guys notified them,

01:47 - 15.772 notify them of,

01:47 - 18.608 when you made the referral for the investigation.

01:47 - 20.076 When did you do that?

01:47 - 22.478 The referral for the investigation, I believe,

01:47 - 26.573 was made at the end of 2025.

01:47 - 30.510 Did you supply a list of, pre-K accounts providers to Treasury?

01:47 - 33.456 No, I did not, sir. You did not.

01:47 - 35.024 You didn't provide a certified list.

01:47 - 37.651 There is no certified list that went to Treasury of,

01:47 - 40.163 providers.

01:47 - 42.665 No, we we we were not asked to provide

01:47 - 45.826 a list of certified providers to Treasury.

01:47 - 50.173 So under the,

01:47 - 53.200 balanced budget or the budget bridge loan,

01:47 - 55.945 the recipients are required

01:47 - 59.348 to have a valid contract with the Department of Education.

01:47 - 02.442 Did they have a valid contract with the Department of Education

01:48 - 06.313 at the time that the loans were provided? Yes.

01:48 - 11.194 Yes, they would have signed because they're already currently in an agreement.

01:48 - 14.221 So the pre-K Council agreement is a it's a

01:48 - 18.458 on a yearly renewal, but it's a five year term.

01:48 - 21.728 So yes, they were in the middle of the renewal.

01:48 - 26.175 So as far as in the Treasury knew that, there was they still had a valid contract.

01:48 - 27.176 Is that correct?

01:48 - 30.203 And they were operating under a valid contract,

01:48 - 33.683 and we don't know what the Department of Treasury knew or didn't know.

01:48 - 38.078 Well, as far as what wasn't asked what the department had provided, we we did.

01:48 - 41.311 I think we're getting a little confused because we did not provide anything.

01:48 - 47.763 That was your all right.

01:48 - 50.790 Did you, once you made the referral,

01:48 - 53.236 did you notify Treasury

01:48 - 56.830 that there was an investigation or referral for investigation?

01:48 - 59.976 We don't typically notify Treasury

01:49 - 03.670 when we make a referral, so no, sir, I wouldn't have done that.

01:49 - 07.517 Well, given that the Treasury has to pay the bills and stuff, it would be.

01:49 - 11.378 I think it might be a good idea to begin to do that going forward.

01:49 - 15.858 But but we wouldn't have sent a bill.

01:49 - 18.594 That's why we wouldn't have notified interest in general.

01:49 - 18.829 Right?

01:49 - 23.299 We wouldn't notify Treasury of that because we wouldn't send a bill

01:49 - 24.234 if it shouldn't be paid.

01:49 - 27.260 So in other words, there's no way Treasury could have known

01:49 - 29.739 they they wouldn't have known about the investigation.

01:49 - 33.066 They wouldn't have known about, the fact that

01:49 - 36.403 there was a pending change to the contract.

01:49 - 38.748 Not unless they asked. Yeah.

01:49 - 40.483 But if they asked you, would you,

01:49 - 43.419 under those legal constraints you mentioned earlier, would you love

01:49 - 47.990 you asked if we would have provided a list of certified pre-K accounts providers.

01:49 - 49.458 Yes. If we were asked,

01:49 - 53.095 we would have provided them a list of all of our current providers.

01:49 - 55.400 Would you have notified them that you had made a referral?

01:49 - 58.701 No, I wouldn't, okay, I wouldn't have.

01:49 - 59.902 So they had no way of knowing.

01:49 - 02.929 Thank you.

01:50 - 06.375 I'd like to get to,

01:50 - 09.111 your budget includes 14.3 million

01:50 - 12.339 or 17.1 increase for school food and services.

01:50 - 16.142 $7.1 million supplemental appropriation for the year.

01:50 - 19.879 That seems to be a large increase in the appropriation.

01:50 - 22.058 Has there been an increase in the number of schools

01:50 - 25.085 participating in the school breakfast lunch program?

01:50 - 29.432 Yes. There's been a marked increase in the number of students

01:50 - 30.466 who are participating

01:50 - 34.027 in the Universal Free School program, free school breakfast program.

01:50 - 38.531 We also have, an increase in food costs.

01:50 - 43.946 Could you do us a favor and please provide the committee with financial data

01:50 - 48.084 to use to calculate the full, that school food service appropriation

01:50 - 52.012 for 2526 year and the assumptions used for the budget request?

01:50 - 53.857 Certainly.

01:50 - 56.883 I'd appreciate that.

01:50 - 02.155 Senator Phillips Hill and Senator Langer,

01:51 - 04.266 have circulated a co-sponsor memo

01:51 - 07.293 to repeal the state Board of Higher Education

01:51 - 09.872 sponsors highlighted the hiring of senior

01:51 - 12.908 staff at the executive level, salaries as a concern.

01:51 - 15.911 In their memo.

01:51 - 17.413 It seems as in a response,

01:51 - 21.384 the board has responded by posting two new job positions

01:51 - 22.451 to add to their complement.

01:51 - 25.287 Since the memo was circulated in January.

01:51 - 28.357 I'm just kind of curious, how can you continue

01:51 - 31.351 to justify adding positions to the board?

01:51 - 35.622 We need additional first.

01:51 - 38.792 The compliment that is afforded to them isn't,

01:51 - 41.928 hasn't been,

01:51 - 46.332 we haven't hired all of the people yet, that that's afforded to them.

01:51 - 49.545 And second, I don't know how we can't

01:51 - 52.982 when we're 49th or 50th in the country

01:51 - 57.620 related to higher education affordability attainment like this.

01:51 - 03.249 This is a place to, to focus just to spend,

01:52 - 09.289 the time and effort and indeed money to make sure that we have a plan

01:52 - 12.992 that we can execute and that you can hold us accountable for.

01:52 - 14.204 Right.

01:52 - 16.172 So we have the we have the goals.

01:52 - 18.841 So yeah, I'm out of time and I will follow up on a second round.

01:52 - 22.712 But given what the senator's also spoke to as the

01:52 - 28.150 what was a glaring omission in the report, I have the same concerns

01:52 - 33.213 that she does with this, the, the even the need for having the board.

01:52 - 34.813 Thank you. Chairman.

01:52 - 39.428 Senator Robinson.

01:52 - 40.696 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:52 - 42.064 Thank you, Madam Secretary.

01:52 - 44.834 It's nice to see you again. Likewise.

01:52 - 45.535 As you know,

01:52 - 49.896 I was the prime sponsor of the structured literacy bill in the Senate this session.

01:52 - 54.400 And my staff, have been involved in the literacy discussion

01:52 - 57.246 for the last couple of years.

01:52 - 01.217 We all sincerely appreciate your work and the work of your staff

01:53 - 05.111 to implement act 135 and now act 47.

01:53 - 10.326 So, Madam Secretary, you've stated structural literacy is a top priority

01:53 - 13.720 and one of the most important things in schools,

01:53 - 17.290 second only to health, safety and the welfare of students.

01:53 - 22.529 Yet according to the department, only 1.5 employees were devoted

01:53 - 25.775 to the implementation of act 135,

01:53 - 30.303 which establishes, the approved lists for reading curricula,

01:53 - 33.816 universal screeners, professional development

01:53 - 37.043 and intervention, intervention approaches.

01:53 - 40.656 So my question, does your budget proposal

01:53 - 46.319 reflect a request for additional employees for the purpose of implementing

01:53 - 49.889 the new literacy program under act 47?

01:53 - 53.993 And do you intend to contract with any outside consultants

01:53 - 57.330 for its implementation?

01:53 - 00.409 Okay. So,

01:54 - 02.545 in the secretary's office at the Department

01:54 - 05.905 of Education, I'm afforded a certain amount of special assistance.

01:54 - 09.475 And up to this point, I had, a vacancy.

01:54 - 13.780 I have, requested to use that position

01:54 - 17.193 for the purpose of, structured literacy.

01:54 - 21.096 So we are bringing somebody else on board who is going to help to implement

01:54 - 24.967 the vision, that will supplement our 1.5,

01:54 - 27.961 but certainly still won't be enough,

01:54 - 30.439 in the,

01:54 - 35.244 to make sure that we are using resources efficiently,

01:54 - 38.972 we are working with, our part on network, our,

01:54 - 42.942 our network of for technical assistance and also our intermediate units.

01:54 - 46.155 So in that way, we are supplementing the amount

01:54 - 49.482 of individuals that are working on this project.

01:54 - 53.762 We're also seeking, federal funding and some outside

01:54 - 58.767 funding for to, to implement our plan, particularly as it relates to coaching.

01:54 - 02.504 I think it was Senator Culver who I was talking, who I was answering a question

01:55 - 06.008 for, and I brought up the idea of of, of having coaches

01:55 - 09.435 that could move from district to district helping to implement things.

01:55 - 12.181 And so we're looking for that outside funding.

01:55 - 15.517 I'm looking to wring every bit of efficiency

01:55 - 20.789 that I can out of what we have to move this forward and to and to move it

01:55 - 24.317 forward in a way that's actually going to make a difference in Pennsylvania,

01:55 - 28.187 have a Pennsylvania solution to a Pennsylvania problem.

01:55 - 30.066 Okay.

01:55 - 31.433 Well, thank you.

01:55 - 32.768 Moving on.

01:55 - 35.995 As you know, the Reading Leadership Leadership Council,

01:55 - 40.033 who was tasked with creating the list for literacy

01:55 - 45.605 through act 135 of 2023, is subject to the Sunshine Law.

01:55 - 50.243 However, the public meetings for this council are exclusively on zoom,

01:55 - 54.590 and as such, much if not all, communication with

01:55 - 00.396 and between the council members during these meetings is done via a private chat

01:56 - 04.257 feature on the zoom platform that cannot be seen by the public.

01:56 - 09.104 Since the fall, my office has repeatedly requested

01:56 - 13.142 those chat logs that contain the comments and feedback

01:56 - 16.202 provided by the council members during the public meeting,

01:56 - 20.340 but have been denied by the department and West End.

01:56 - 23.776 Who is the consultant hired by your department?

01:56 - 27.189 That is helping to run these meetings.

01:56 - 31.226 So my question, Madam Secretary, is why has your office declined

01:56 - 36.089 to provide my office with these requested communications?

01:56 - 39.234 That is being that should be

01:56 - 42.328 made public, during the public meetings.

01:56 - 47.142 The Department of Education

01:56 - 50.169 will always comply with the law.

01:56 - 56.251 And if the law requires that any chat logs

01:56 - 02.281 be shared with, your staffers or the public in general,

01:57 - 04.960 we will absolutely comply.

01:57 - 08.154 To the extent that said, chats exist.

01:57 - 15.671 So. I mean, it's it's a very pedantic issue.

01:57 - 17.906 Like, I'm unaware that,

01:57 - 21.010 you're requesting something that we're not giving.

01:57 - 21.745 I'm unaware

01:57 - 26.915 whether or not those chats actually exist and how much chats were occurring.

01:57 - 29.385 During that period of time.

01:57 - 33.355 You're making me aware of it now, and I can certainly look into it

01:57 - 36.692 more, but I, I, I will double down

01:57 - 39.695 on when we will follow the law

01:57 - 43.356 if the law requires us to release it and they exist, we will do that.

01:57 - 47.436 I mean, we my office made you aware by asking for the for the chats

01:57 - 50.439 and there was no follow up correspondence.

01:57 - 53.475 So I don't know what the next step is.

01:57 - 56.078 If you can provide that for me, that would be great.

01:57 - 59.348 If we have the final right to know requests, we can do that as well.

01:57 - 01.383 Oh I see okay. All right. Great.

01:58 - 02.584 Thank you for making me aware.

01:58 - 04.820 And we will we will look into that for you.

01:58 - 06.746 All right. Thank you. No further questions.

01:58 - 10.360 Okay.

01:58 - 11.427 That's the end of round one.

01:58 - 14.454 I'm going to turn it over to Senator Hughes.

01:58 - 15.999 Thank you, Mr.

01:58 - 17.599 Chair. Thank you.

01:58 - 21.527 Madam Secretary and team, appreciate you being here.

01:58 - 24.540 Normally I say when it gets to me, it's almost done.

01:58 - 26.141 Not quite the case.

01:58 - 26.643 All right.

01:58 - 30.503 So, like, this is a fun question.

01:58 - 31.147 Okay.

01:58 - 36.018 But, like, is Abbott Elementary mandatory watching for everybody in the department?

01:58 - 38.087 And is that like, you know,

01:58 - 40.389 do we need to put it in the fiscal code or something like that.

01:58 - 42.391 Right. Okay. All right. Do it.

01:58 - 44.660 You don't don't mandate don't mandate it. No.

01:58 - 47.062 We just will just do it automatically okay.

01:58 - 47.664 That's good.

01:58 - 52.024 I just want be sure it's just fine to lighten up the moment.

01:58 - 52.602 Okay.

01:58 - 57.130 And, you know, get us through as we proceed into round two, which

01:58 - 01.577 has the list of people scheduled to ask questions.

01:59 - 06.148 And they've been renewed for six seasons, so that's a good thing.

01:59 - 12.354 So it was it was mentioned earlier about right sizing higher education.

01:59 - 16.849 And I'm going to go out on a limb here, Madam Secretary, and say that

01:59 - 21.754 I'm going to ask you something that I think you were getting ready to say

01:59 - 25.791 when that issue came up, because right sizing higher education

01:59 - 29.404 could be defined in two ways, maybe even multiple.

01:59 - 33.609 More than that, right sizing higher education could mean shrinking

01:59 - 36.178 the footprint

01:59 - 38.814 of what's offered,

01:59 - 41.817 shrinking the campus size,

01:59 - 44.844 if you will, of our higher education institutions.

01:59 - 48.648 Or could mean it could mean

01:59 - 52.528 bringing more people into the space, bringing more people

01:59 - 56.756 into academia, bringing more people into.

01:59 - 00.526 And there's some interesting programs that help facilitate.

02:00 - 03.272 One of them is grow pay.

02:00 - 08.401 All right, which brings more people into it.

02:00 - 09.701 All right.

02:00 - 11.915 I told you.

02:00 - 12.948 Okay.

02:00 - 17.877 But also right sizing in addition to that, is our, quote,

02:00 - 21.757 nontraditional students, those students

02:00 - 26.953 who have some level of college.

02:00 - 29.898 But life took over.

02:00 - 32.267 They detoured their path.

02:00 - 34.536 They got a job.

02:00 - 37.563 You know, family stuff happens

02:00 - 40.609 where the traditional path,

02:00 - 43.603 was interfered with, if you will.

02:00 - 49.141 And now they're nontraditional students, and many of us want to encourage them.

02:00 - 53.079 And many programs within your department,

02:00 - 57.183 are encouraging them to figure out a way to come back

02:00 - 00.495 and reset their skills,

02:01 - 03.522 reset their, knowledge,

02:01 - 07.159 and maybe just come back just for the joy of learning.

02:01 - 08.338 All right.

02:01 - 10.872 I mean, which we don't seem to talk about enough.

02:01 - 11.541 Right?

02:01 - 14.509 Can you speak to that, if you will?

02:01 - 17.179 I think that's exactly where I was going to head that.

02:01 - 17.981 Would you?

02:01 - 19.014 Yeah. Yeah.

02:01 - 23.743 One of the statistics that I, that I heard that I

02:01 - 27.856 am particularly, interested in and doing something about

02:01 - 33.929 is that there's 1.1 million, individuals in Pennsylvania

02:01 - 36.999 that are, in the, working

02:01 - 40.159 age category that have some college but no degree.

02:01 - 44.906 I am curious what occurred that made them choose

02:01 - 48.577 to not continue to pursue the degree that they had started?

02:01 - 51.947 And, to what degree? No pun intended.

02:01 - 55.317 They would be interested in returning to higher education.

02:01 - 57.486 That's one way that we can say,

02:01 - 01.023 well, we don't have enough enrollment, but we have this group of people

02:02 - 05.584 who's pretty close to being done, some very close to being done.

02:02 - 09.555 Is it that their student loan debt, took over?

02:02 - 14.593 Is it that, they couldn't meet their basic life needs at that time?

02:02 - 19.007 Whatever it is, let's see if we can figure that out and entice, individuals

02:02 - 22.635 to come back, because we know that once you have that degree,

02:02 - 27.883 not only are you going to earn more, but then the state benefits, as well.

02:02 - 32.087 It benefits the Commonwealth when people up skill, the fast for,

02:02 - 35.190 and having individual having our students fill that out

02:02 - 36.958 and keeping their options open.

02:02 - 39.828 Not that that we're trying to pigeonhole them into going into higher

02:02 - 43.255 ed, but saying this remains a possibility for you.

02:02 - 47.760 The degree to which you have all, taken on dual credit.

02:02 - 49.805 We are seeing an incredible

02:02 - 53.842 amount of students wanting to take, dual credit courses.

02:02 - 56.011 And indeed actually fulfilling that.

02:02 - 57.512 That is an excellent way,

02:02 - 01.750 for students to get a taste of what college would feel like.

02:03 - 05.754 And maybe for the first time, with the support of high school counselors

02:03 - 09.582 and teachers, realize maybe college actually is for me,

02:03 - 12.918 maybe I can go and I can thrive.

02:03 - 17.556 Even if it is somebody who is a first generation college goer.

02:03 - 22.128 So there are lots of ways that we can increase the attendance

02:03 - 25.240 before we decide necessarily to,

02:03 - 31.137 suggest, closures or, or the like.

02:03 - 36.752 And I would also say that the state board is meant to be a coordinating council.

02:03 - 38.720 They're meant to find like, what is the

02:03 - 42.982 what is the best of what this particular college or university does

02:03 - 46.328 and how can we ensure that it's not necessarily as duplicated

02:03 - 51.700 in particular areas, but rather that each university can thrive

02:03 - 58.240 in their particular program and put their best foot forward

02:03 - 01.267 without that duplication, because we have enough need,

02:04 - 03.879 let's, let's make sure we spread that out and make sure

02:04 - 07.840 that all Pennsylvanians have equal access to higher education.

02:04 - 12.044 I think for and and as you know, we've worked a little bit

02:04 - 17.817 with this, in, the city of Philadelphia.

02:04 - 19.394 All right.

02:04 - 22.397 With the school district in Philadelphia,

02:04 - 25.424 and trying to assist,

02:04 - 29.738 especially in the school district, some of those paraprofessionals

02:04 - 34.409 to figure out a way to get through and then to become,

02:04 - 38.046 in fact, teachers, because I know some folks are wanting to talk about that.

02:04 - 41.073 We've done some significant work on that over the years.

02:04 - 47.422 And if you will, the, facilitating the Mr.

02:04 - 50.516 Johnson's of the world, the school suit for that.

02:04 - 50.960 Yeah.

02:04 - 54.019 You know, for you non Abbott elementary people all right.

02:04 - 57.966 To figure out a way to, to, to get back

02:04 - 01.136 and, and, and some of it I think is encouragement.

02:05 - 02.637 Some of it is in financial.

02:05 - 07.476 It's financial, I think I dare say that a lot of

02:05 - 10.503 it is a little bit of hand-holding on the front end.

02:05 - 13.048 This is how it works. Now.

02:05 - 17.643 This is where you can be now, don't be afraid of the new technology.

02:05 - 21.189 The the classroom experiences,

02:05 - 25.084 are, actually quite invigorating.

02:05 - 29.355 And the truth of the matter is, so many instructors and some of the students,

02:05 - 33.626 the younger students value,

02:05 - 37.062 a more seasoned student in the room,

02:05 - 40.399 because of what can be learned as a result of that.

02:05 - 44.403 And so I really would when we talk about right sizing,

02:05 - 50.242 I really would recommend a more robust conversation in that space,

02:05 - 54.980 but more robust from the vantage point of how can we encourage more people.

02:05 - 55.791 This is no way.

02:05 - 59.485 Looking at CTE programs and all that other kind of stuff and,

02:05 - 02.755 and, and, and what that can really do for,

02:06 - 06.225 for this state, this nation.

02:06 - 09.337 I agree, particularly in the teacher education

02:06 - 12.364 space, when we're looking at paraprofessionals,

02:06 - 16.478 these are individuals who, are in the school, our local.

02:06 - 19.114 Right. And so they've already invested in the school.

02:06 - 22.141 Perhaps their own kids have gone to school there, but they're invested

02:06 - 26.912 and they've shown the potential to be, great teachers.

02:06 - 31.383 We now have, programs for paraprofessionals that would

02:06 - 35.854 take them from, the paraprofessional to being a certified teacher

02:06 - 40.659 in as little as 18 months, that is, without sacrificing the rigor.

02:06 - 41.337 Right.

02:06 - 45.097 And provided that they already have, a bachelor's degree.

02:06 - 47.442 So there are there are things that we're doing.

02:06 - 51.179 I think we've had, over 145,

02:06 - 54.573 teachers special education teachers go through that program,

02:06 - 58.653 come out the other side, and are now teachers in Pennsylvania doing that work.

02:06 - 01.790 And we have a second cohort who are who's doing,

02:07 - 04.950 the work as well, the, the, accelerated program.

02:07 - 07.762 We have grow your own. We have teacher apprenticeship.

02:07 - 12.233 We there are so many different ways that we can,

02:07 - 16.161 increase the amount of teachers while simultaneously increasing diversity

02:07 - 19.608 so that students can see somebody who is like

02:07 - 22.611 them as part of the teaching ranks.

02:07 - 23.979 There's a lot of good things that are

02:07 - 28.140 going on, and it's because of the budgets that all of you are passing.

02:07 - 29.884 It's allowing these things to occur.

02:07 - 31.686 I know, and I appreciate that.

02:07 - 33.521 It was talked about a little bit earlier.

02:07 - 37.616 I'm obligated to speak, a little bit on my on my own.

02:07 - 40.895 One of the things that bugs me terribly

02:07 - 44.065 is the problems that we're having with grade

02:07 - 47.192 level literacy, especially at the third and fourth grades.

02:07 - 48.571 Okay.

02:07 - 54.242 It's just that, just that, that we know it in many, many respects.

02:07 - 57.112 We know how to solve it. Okay.

02:07 - 03.451 I really want us to think more about I know your department is doing it.

02:08 - 05.320 Okay. Think more about it.

02:08 - 08.347 And being very aggressive about how we can

02:08 - 13.118 we can get everybody at the level at fourth grade.

02:08 - 14.329 All right.

02:08 - 17.356 And I'm a he's he's departed.

02:08 - 22.137 I am, he's made a transition, unfortunately.

02:08 - 27.766 Doctor Jones, can you fool wrote historically, about,

02:08 - 33.872 the loss of black boys in in grade school at the fourth grade level.

02:08 - 37.643 I mean, for 20, 30, 40 years,

02:08 - 42.481 and knowing knowing that

02:08 - 45.527 that fourth grade number

02:08 - 48.463 with respect to literacy, especially,

02:08 - 51.990 is a huge predictor of success going forward.

02:08 - 53.868 Why we can't do more.

02:08 - 56.571 We started reading succeed Senator Haywood.

02:08 - 00.265 Some of my other colleagues have been participants in that program.

02:09 - 04.436 And it's still with the the simple the summer slide.

02:09 - 05.681 Right.

02:09 - 08.707 You know, you leave school in June and you,

02:09 - 12.077 you, you behind when you start in September,

02:09 - 14.589 largely because you haven't done anything academically

02:09 - 15.890 during the course of this summer.

02:09 - 18.426 Well, let's provide some fun experiences to do that.

02:09 - 20.195 We do that at Reading Succeed.

02:09 - 22.263 Very successful. Okay.

02:09 - 26.592 And I just want us to do more in that space

02:09 - 32.774 because if we want to right size our higher education, the best thing to do

02:09 - 37.536 is make the investment at the early end so that they can track right towards that.

02:09 - 39.013 I'm just saying.

02:09 - 42.941 All right, finally, I have to say this and I would love your feedback.

02:09 - 47.613 We're going through a very labored process.

02:09 - 51.517 And in fact, all the way

02:09 - 54.553 it's pretty painful.

02:09 - 57.623 In some places it's necessary.

02:09 - 01.736 But it's, I think, well thought out and around

02:10 - 05.564 for a lot of community engagement in the city of Philadelphia

02:10 - 10.035 dealing with this issue of school building infrastructure.

02:10 - 16.742 And the fact that we've had we have some buildings that were built

02:10 - 20.612 75, 80, 100 years ago,

02:10 - 25.584 built to size for 2020 500 or 3000 students

02:10 - 28.887 and only having a couple hundred students in there,

02:10 - 32.467 largely because

02:10 - 34.636 population is going down.

02:10 - 36.337 And then we've had the event

02:10 - 39.498 in advance of charter schools, which have built their own buildings.

02:10 - 44.870 So we got issues hugely old buildings,

02:10 - 48.941 right, hugely old buildings wooden

02:10 - 52.077 with very few students in them

02:10 - 55.080 and a whole lot of other problems as well.

02:10 - 57.225 And we need to be honest about that.

02:10 - 59.294 These are not pretty problems.

02:10 - 00.361 These are led.

02:11 - 04.022 These are as best as these infestation problems.

02:11 - 06.467 Let's be honest okay.

02:11 - 09.494 He's a technology problems in Allentown.

02:11 - 12.698 This school building built in reconstruction

02:11 - 13.175 right?

02:11 - 16.802 I mean seriously built during reconstruction 1871.

02:11 - 18.347 All right.

02:11 - 21.783 Doctor Watlington,

02:11 - 24.986 Chairman Streeter in the whole apparatus.

02:11 - 26.287 And I'm sure you're monitoring it.

02:11 - 28.256 So I love to hear your feedback.

02:11 - 32.684 I had a meeting with governor, Shapiro.

02:11 - 34.519 On the front end

02:11 - 38.099 to talk about school infrastructure issue.

02:11 - 38.667 All right.

02:11 - 43.095 Secretary mean, Budget Secretary.

02:11 - 46.808 Munson, myself, a number of other

02:11 - 49.968 people said in the governor's office to walk through this.

02:11 - 54.306 And he basically said, you got to do something that has never been done before.

02:11 - 55.351 All right.

02:11 - 00.112 Put together a process that is data driven, that has fully research

02:12 - 05.183 that talks about the what the investment would be and talks about the growth

02:12 - 08.954 or lack thereof in communities with school, with students,

02:12 - 14.493 and how you can create a new environment, a new footprint.

02:12 - 16.404 And then they did that.

02:12 - 19.374 They did that in the community engagement process

02:12 - 22.110 has been

02:12 - 23.177 painful.

02:12 - 26.204 I'm sure you monitoring that you and your team are managing it.

02:12 - 29.050 And hopefully at the end we can

02:12 - 33.478 come out with something that not everybody's could be happy with,

02:12 - 37.325 but hopefully we can come out with some 21st century,

02:12 - 43.355 more 21st century schools to meet the need for 21st century students

02:12 - 46.558 and those that have the responsibility to educate them.

02:12 - 49.037 You have any feedback? I know you're monitoring this.

02:12 - 50.705 I know you're observing it.

02:12 - 51.873 I know you're listening to it

02:12 - 53.975 because it in many respects, no other district

02:12 - 56.244 in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is going through this.

02:12 - 58.203 Okay. Any thoughts?

02:12 - 00.748 And I have had the,

02:13 - 05.944 opportunity to talk with, Superintendent Watlington.

02:13 - 10.382 About, some of the issues that you're, that you're sharing.

02:13 - 14.853 And I have found him to be thoughtful, and engaged,

02:13 - 19.691 thinking about things, on a macro level,

02:13 - 25.506 understanding the intricate intertwining between,

02:13 - 31.579 the community needs and, the buildings that the school district

02:13 - 34.606 owns, understanding how it factors in

02:13 - 37.709 how the, charter schools factor in.

02:13 - 40.455 He's been very thoughtful in this,

02:13 - 44.659 and I have confidence that moving forward, he will continue to do that.

02:13 - 50.498 And, with, help from things like the sassy Grant.

02:13 - 55.069 And let me just make sure that, yes, I thought so that he is, that the school

02:13 - 55.938 district of Philadelphia

02:13 - 59.564 is part of this sassy grant, one of the few grant names I can remember

02:14 - 01.443 so unique,

02:14 - 06.347 37 out of, 40 schools that we invited to be part of it.

02:14 - 10.342 And the school district, Philadelphia is one are taking part.

02:14 - 13.321 They're looking at their schools in a comprehensive way

02:14 - 16.848 and saying, what are the infrastructure needs that we have?

02:14 - 22.830 And then going through a budgeting process with, the

02:14 - 27.468 some of the federal funds and with our, folks at the Department of Education.

02:14 - 29.637 So we're actually hopeful.

02:14 - 32.707 I know this is a slight side step of that, but we're actually hopeful

02:14 - 36.177 that some of that work we're doing with the 37 school districts,

02:14 - 39.271 that have these high needs is going to help

02:14 - 43.942 inform what we do with all school districts related to facilities.

02:14 - 46.120 So there's a lot of good things that's coming.

02:14 - 50.482 And, Superintendent Watlington has been very engaged in the process.

02:14 - 53.885 We just we it dawns on me,

02:14 - 57.689 and there is a state responsibility in this,

02:14 - 02.503 I think it was 2016

02:15 - 05.106 when we did the,

02:15 - 08.633 plan con reform Commission hearings

02:15 - 12.270 all across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and we traveled all over

02:15 - 15.474 Pennsylvania, and,

02:15 - 19.253 we came up with recommendations

02:15 - 22.280 I participated in that came up with recommendations.

02:15 - 24.625 We provided the recommendations.

02:15 - 27.652 But there was no funding.

02:15 - 31.599 So it's great to have the recommendations,

02:15 - 36.537 but if you have no funding to help deal with a huge infrastructure,

02:15 - 40.665 we have probably one of the oldest school infrastructures in the country.

02:15 - 44.069 All right, just just to be clear, right.

02:15 - 48.116 But if there's no funding to help deal

02:15 - 51.143 with the recommendations or help deal with the obvious.

02:15 - 54.789 You know, four story school buildings

02:15 - 58.383 with no elevator, no auditorium, no Hvac.

02:15 - 59.995 Okay.

02:16 - 04.322 I visit a school in southwestern Pennsylvania with a backup generator

02:16 - 06.367 in the subbasement.

02:16 - 07.336 Who was it?

02:16 - 08.836 I know exactly what you're talking about.

02:16 - 10.571 A car engine.

02:16 - 13.965 And the school supe was proud to show me his, the,

02:16 - 17.269 his, his technology that he runs a school

02:16 - 20.972 with which was windows 95 is a 2016.

02:16 - 22.918 Okay.

02:16 - 26.845 Now we've made some advances to try to put more dollars into this space.

02:16 - 28.089 All right.

02:16 - 30.591 But we can do more.

02:16 - 33.694 Our children deserve 21st

02:16 - 37.689 century environments to learn and explore,

02:16 - 41.626 whoever it is they are, because we all benefit from it.

02:16 - 48.867 So, please, please stay close to what's happening.

02:16 - 51.579 And so, if you please.

02:16 - 54.606 And again, I'm Allison, I'm a Philly guy.

02:16 - 59.187 But it is doing something that probably most school districts

02:16 - 02.214 in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania need to figure out how to do.

02:17 - 04.292 They just don't have the guts to do it,

02:17 - 08.386 which is really dig deep into the issues, into the problems

02:17 - 13.058 and and see where the opportunities are, for

02:17 - 16.137 so that we can all create 21st century schools.

02:17 - 19.364 You should represent the Upper Dublin School District, and I'll close out here

02:17 - 23.945 $160 million high school.

02:17 - 26.514 It's three theaters in it, one of them

02:17 - 29.541 a black box theater, a TV studio,

02:17 - 32.920 okay, a radio studio

02:17 - 35.389 and a meteorological center.

02:17 - 37.191 Yes, I said it.

02:17 - 39.627 Eight 40 inch flat screen TVs

02:17 - 42.654 get to determine lightning strikes and whatever.

02:17 - 46.634 I think connected to the Penn State Media school, to meteorology.

02:17 - 47.835 He's a Penn State guy.

02:17 - 49.737 I always back him about it. All right.

02:17 - 52.506 And and their children are learning this stuff

02:17 - 55.600 and then proceeding on to explore that stuff.

02:17 - 56.778 All right.

02:17 - 58.679 We left there, I took the commission.

02:17 - 03.217 We left there and went to high school, one of the most historical high schools

02:18 - 06.244 in the country, right.

02:18 - 08.122 And we visited the science room.

02:18 - 10.358 No running water.

02:18 - 13.551 And this nice textbook was published in 1995.

02:18 - 14.785 Come on,

02:18 - 18.699 come on, that can't work.

02:18 - 21.569 So please dig deep,

02:18 - 26.407 dig deeply into what is happening in the school district in Philadelphia

02:18 - 30.101 and utilize the lessons that that are appropriate

02:18 - 34.172 for other communities across the Commonwealth and maybe across the country.

02:18 - 38.043 I think it's a big learning lesson for all of us.

02:18 - 41.813 And I'm also going to need your help to figure out where we can turn

02:18 - 46.084 some of these problems into huge, wonderful opportunities that are being,

02:18 - 49.397 you know, unveiled.

02:18 - 52.166 All right in this process interview.

02:18 - 54.268 So thank you very much. Thank you.

02:18 - 56.637 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:18 - 57.605 Thank you, Senator.

02:18 - 57.906 Okay.

02:18 - 00.274 We're gonna have a brief round two, standing

02:19 - 03.301 committee chairs will five minutes, members of three minutes.

02:19 - 08.006 We're going to start first with Senator Culver, followed by Senator Phillips Hill.

02:19 - 10.017 Thank you, Mr.

02:19 - 10.652 Chairman.

02:19 - 12.920 Thank you for staying with us.

02:19 - 15.947 I wanted to talk about funding disparity.

02:19 - 19.260 As you know, you graciously came up, to one of our school

02:19 - 22.287 district northwest with Senator Baker and I last year,

02:19 - 26.801 and we heard firsthand what that funding disparity is doing to that school.

02:19 - 30.795 And I believe, if I remember correctly, they said if that continues,

02:19 - 35.676 they may have to close the school, because they have been, you know,

02:19 - 39.204 making sacrifices and cutting anywhere they can think to cut.

02:19 - 43.141 So in the governor's education budget proposal,

02:19 - 47.488 there is, again, great disparity in funding between school districts.

02:19 - 51.592 300 school districts are receiving 95% of the funding increase

02:19 - 57.055 from major subsidies, and 200 school districts receive just 5% of the funding.

02:19 - 01.702 Can you explain why this is still happening, and how can we help

02:20 - 05.497 the schools that are following those 200 schools in that 5%?

02:20 - 11.112 And so I did enjoy, my,

02:20 - 14.239 my time visiting with, with that school and.

02:20 - 19.687 I think what I liked best about visiting that particular school

02:20 - 23.090 is that they had already done so many of the things that we would

02:20 - 26.117 suggest to school districts for efficiency.

02:20 - 30.064 We take a look at transportation budgets

02:20 - 33.167 as an example, and we'd say, you know,

02:20 - 37.104 how could you reduce the capital expenditures and loop busses?

02:20 - 41.499 And they had already actually changed their start times to accommodate that.

02:20 - 46.438 We often work with schools to say, how many students are

02:20 - 50.317 are you placing, outside of your school?

02:20 - 54.879 And is it possible that we can create similar spaces that would be appropriate

02:20 - 59.226 for students inside your school, thereby saving money and allowing the students

02:20 - 02.887 to be, educated amongst their, their peers?

02:21 - 06.758 And we found that they had already taken a lot of those steps.

02:21 - 11.906 And at each kind of turn that we had, they had done the thing.

02:21 - 15.776 And we're still, kind of saying, what do we do next?

02:21 - 19.471 We don't want to close mainly our rural schools with little tax space.

02:21 - 23.017 So there's not a lot of industry there that they're going to be pulling from.

02:21 - 23.285 Right.

02:21 - 27.655 So do you can you explain why we still have 200 schools

02:21 - 30.715 on getting 5% of that share, and how do we help them?

02:21 - 31.960 Well,

02:21 - 34.995 I think you're referring to the adequacy fund.

02:21 - 39.257 And the adequacy fund is, I meant it.

02:21 - 42.961 It has identified a group of schools that has,

02:21 - 46.240 received unconstitutional funding.

02:21 - 50.969 That is, they have been underfunded for, along a large period of time.

02:21 - 55.115 And so they are receiving money to fill

02:21 - 59.186 that gap, from what they should have received, all along.

02:21 - 03.281 Until we get them back to, where they should be,

02:22 - 06.827 the fact that another school isn't receiving

02:22 - 10.231 as much doesn't mean that we should negate their lived experience.

02:22 - 12.366 Certainly they also have needs.

02:22 - 16.294 But that's not what the adequacy fund is was for.

02:22 - 16.771 They weren't.

02:22 - 20.207 They aren't part of that adequacy, list.

02:22 - 24.612 And so we need to fund them using the basic education

02:22 - 27.639 funding formula, the special education funding formula,

02:22 - 33.220 and all of the other and I career in tech and each of those things

02:22 - 37.682 that actually helps to, ensure that they have,

02:22 - 41.786 what they need to have a high quality, education experience.

02:22 - 45.466 I would like offline to have more conversation on this,

02:22 - 48.493 but I want to move to test scores and funding.

02:22 - 54.799 Since 2015, according to the PSA test scores, to today,

02:22 - 59.313 English language arts has decreased from 60% proficient down

02:22 - 04.042 to 48.5% proficient math from 39.6,

02:23 - 07.288 and came up two points to 41.7.

02:23 - 12.326 But literature is one from 72.7, down to 62%,

02:23 - 15.696 algebra 64.4 to 44.3,

02:23 - 19.223 and biology 58.9 to 49.4.

02:23 - 22.937 I know we had Covid in there, but this started well before Covid

02:23 - 24.738 and the scores were trending down.

02:23 - 28.042 And the question I often get asked is, you know, I pay

02:23 - 31.078 so much tax dollars to my school, how can this be happening?

02:23 - 35.182 And when the matter of fact, as we know, since 2013, 14 year

02:23 - 39.520 up until 2526, there's been an $8.1 billion increase.

02:23 - 42.547 That's 84.5% increase in funding.

02:23 - 45.750 Yet still, we have to explain to our businesses and our community

02:23 - 49.954 or somehow not performing, how do we rectify that situation?

02:23 - 53.267 How do we make the dollars match the success?

02:23 - 58.405 You know, it's not it's not an A one for one, but it's pretty

02:23 - 02.467 darn close to, a conversation that the governor had with me.

02:24 - 04.945 How how how is this working?

02:24 - 09.350 Why why are the numbers as as low as they are?

02:24 - 11.142 And what can we do about it?

02:24 - 15.656 And there's a lot that we are doing about it.

02:24 - 20.127 And I would say that if you look back your, your,

02:24 - 25.323 your numbers are starting at a time when we, before we changed

02:24 - 30.304 the standards in Pennsylvania and before we changed the test in Pennsylvania.

02:24 - 35.800 And you'll notice that there's a drop in the the very next year.

02:24 - 38.579 That doesn't mean that suddenly all the students

02:24 - 40.748 suddenly couldn't do math and couldn't do reading.

02:24 - 44.752 It means that there was, there's been a period of time of recalibrating

02:24 - 47.945 and saying, okay, we need to adjust to these new standards.

02:24 - 51.616 I think the conversation that I've had internally

02:24 - 56.430 and, have shared in other places is we need to be looking at the standards.

02:24 - 59.457 And indeed, the governor has has called on the state board

02:24 - 02.636 to evaluate whether the standards are appropriate.

02:25 - 07.598 That is not to reduce the rigor in any way, but how aligned

02:25 - 12.379 and how aligned is the test to, to the standards?

02:25 - 15.349 And are the standards appropriate for the grade level?

02:25 - 18.919 Because, again, there's there can't be an overnight drop off

02:25 - 22.580 in our score to the degree to which we saw it when we made the change.

02:25 - 25.559 But we also anticipated that there would be,

02:25 - 28.986 a period of time where schools would be able to regain,

02:25 - 32.433 you know, kind of re acclimate to the new standards.

02:25 - 35.002 And we haven't always seen that.

02:25 - 39.606 Now between, the last year,

02:25 - 43.801 over the last, let's say, three years, we've seen a gradual increase in things.

02:25 - 47.538 We're seeing year over year increases in graduation rates

02:25 - 51.042 in math, including scores and the algebra.

02:25 - 55.913 We're seeing, historic gains in our English language learners.

02:25 - 00.360 So there's a lot to be proud of and a lot that points

02:26 - 04.255 to data points that as a state, we have said are important.

02:26 - 07.201 And seeing those things on the rise.

02:26 - 11.462 But you're right, this is the thing that is the most visible to people.

02:26 - 13.273 And we need to be able to explain what

02:26 - 14.975 that is, and we need to be working toward it.

02:26 - 18.536 And we also have the workforce saying students aren't ready when they get there.

02:26 - 20.647 So I know we have our work cut out for us.

02:26 - 21.715 I know we're out of time.

02:26 - 22.783 We'll have this conversation.

02:26 - 24.218 I'm fortunate enough to sit on the state.

02:26 - 26.220 Board of Education, so I'll be part of that.

02:26 - 28.756 So thank you.

02:26 - 29.591 Thank you, Senator.

02:26 - 32.583 Senator Phillips Hill, followed by Senator Vogel.

02:26 - 34.762 Thank you, Mr.

02:26 - 35.996 Chairman.

02:26 - 38.932 Let's continue this conversation.

02:26 - 42.894 So how many students are served by Pennsylvania's K-12 schools?

02:26 - 46.340 Approximately 1.7 million.

02:26 - 49.476 And how many students are served by Pennsylvania's higher education

02:26 - 52.470 institutions.

02:26 - 55.916 Let's see if I can defer to my deputy secretary on that.

02:26 - 57.951 You know,

02:26 - 00.978 I don't have an exact number on that.

02:27 - 03.423 Is that something that you could get back to us on?

02:27 - 05.526 Absolutely.

02:27 - 08.428 Can you tell me what the state related

02:27 - 12.123 or the state system of higher education enrollment numbers look like?

02:27 - 14.902 The enrollment numbers overall?

02:27 - 18.963 And each of the institutions and I believe I,

02:27 - 21.508 that you're going to go to the lowering demographic

02:27 - 25.136 in the decreasing enrollment at each of the higher ed institutions.

02:27 - 26.814 Don't make assumptions. Please.

02:27 - 28.282 Just answer the question.

02:27 - 29.850 I don't have the exact numbers.

02:27 - 32.085 So you came here to testify today.

02:27 - 34.588 You are the deputy secretary for higher Education,

02:27 - 37.658 and you have absolutely no idea, off the top of your head,

02:27 - 40.294 how many students are enrolled in higher education in the Commonwealth?

02:27 - 41.495 Pennsylvania?

02:27 - 42.529 No, that's not what I'm saying.

02:27 - 44.822 But per sector, I can get you that breakdown.

02:27 - 48.368 Very good.

02:27 - 51.038 Can you tell me how many employees work for the state.

02:27 - 54.065 Board of Education?

02:27 - 55.743 Sure.

02:27 - 58.769 Do we have five employee?

02:28 - 03.517 At the current moment,

02:28 - 06.510 there are four filled positions.

02:28 - 12.960 We might have just filled the fifth.

02:28 - 15.963 And we are.

02:28 - 18.765 We are posting two, that were approved

02:28 - 21.768 with the enacted budget in November.

02:28 - 24.795 And then we have one more in the wings

02:28 - 27.574 that that is on our authorized compliment already.

02:28 - 28.276 We're not adding.

02:28 - 32.970 So you're looking at a total complement when filled of seven people.

02:28 - 35.549 Correct? Okay.

02:28 - 38.576 How many employees work for the State Board of Higher Education?

02:28 - 43.147 There are two filled positions.

02:28 - 47.618 So there is currently.

02:28 - 52.833 Only a director of information systems

02:28 - 56.661 and strategic analysis and a director of economic and workforce development.

02:29 - 03.076 We're talking about the state board or the state board of higher ed.

02:29 - 05.045 I'm talking about the state board of higher ed.

02:29 - 07.481 So there's an executive director.

02:29 - 11.575 There is a economic

02:29 - 14.721 and workforce development.

02:29 - 17.748 There's a,

02:29 - 21.385 finance, financial data, director,

02:29 - 24.598 there's an admin officer, one

02:29 - 27.935 that that is vacant at the moment.

02:29 - 32.296 It was filled, but now it's they give again, being filled.

02:29 - 35.976 And then like I said, there are,

02:29 - 39.003 a few more vacancies.

02:29 - 40.747 So are those vacancies.

02:29 - 44.384 The associate director of information systems and strategic Analysis,

02:29 - 48.079 as well as the associate director of academic and workforce development,

02:29 - 49.290 and those are filled.

02:29 - 51.792 Those are filled.

02:29 - 54.885 So you have directors and associates.

02:29 - 59.490 So there's four positions and admin,

02:30 - 02.903 a finance

02:30 - 04.562 and an executive director,

02:30 - 09.467 7 or 8.

02:30 - 12.770 I believe I misspoke and there are eight

02:30 - 14.148 okay.

02:30 - 17.174 So we have absolutely no idea how many students

02:30 - 21.054 are in higher education in the Commonwealth.

02:30 - 24.682 We've got 1.7 million in K to 12.

02:30 - 30.397 And it appears that the vast majority of students I would assume, are

02:30 - 35.593 in K-12 education, and we have a larger complement in higher ed.

02:30 - 38.963 Can you tell me what the differences are?

02:30 - 44.878 So taxpayers can understand what is the difference between the state.

02:30 - 49.573 Board of Higher Education and the office of Post-secondary and Higher Education?

02:30 - 52.085 I can start that answer.

02:30 - 57.314 And then if there's, details, we can switch to the deputy secretary.

02:30 - 02.529 The state Board of Higher Education is looking at,

02:31 - 07.267 work, higher education as it pertains to workforce.

02:31 - 10.470 They are coordinating, what is largely,

02:31 - 13.998 a decentralized, sector.

02:31 - 18.412 And, looking at this in terms of that strategic plan

02:31 - 23.040 that you mentioned, when we come to issues of, compliance,

02:31 - 25.919 things that

02:31 - 29.213 universities are required to do by Pennsylvania law.

02:31 - 32.759 That is where our, higher,

02:31 - 36.754 office of Post-secondary education would take over.

02:31 - 40.157 And that would include things like certification as well.

02:31 - 43.303 Well, my time is coming to an end.

02:31 - 44.138 But I will say this.

02:31 - 47.507 I am very concerned that we are growing the complement

02:31 - 52.479 of a bureaucratic advisory board, and we're not able to find enough people

02:31 - 53.980 to teach structured literacy,

02:31 - 57.775 which we know is going to make a significant difference and a huge impact

02:31 - 03.781 in the, future success of every student across this Commonwealth.

02:32 - 08.886 And, I think this is really emblematic of the challenges that we face,

02:32 - 12.423 currently with the state of education in this Commonwealth.

02:32 - 14.167 Thank you, Madam Secretary.

02:32 - 18.062 Thank you, Chairman, Senator Vogel, followed by Senator Dush.

02:32 - 19.807 Thank you again.

02:32 - 21.308 Thank you, Secretary.

02:32 - 25.312 And speaking with some of my district superintendents, I they have concerns

02:32 - 30.517 about, the PC, PCC grants and the regulations surrounding them.

02:32 - 32.586 And it seems like

02:32 - 35.655 the they're not allowing the funds to be used for existing programs.

02:32 - 38.949 Like every year they get a new grant, they have to come up with a new program.

02:32 - 42.129 Is there any way we could help alleviate that?

02:32 - 45.132 Because obviously I'd like to spend money on the SROs and things like that,

02:32 - 48.201 but they have to redo a whole new program every year.

02:32 - 48.903 They get a new grant.

02:32 - 52.029 Is is that something we could work on at some point to be able to

02:32 - 56.400 make that a more easily doable situation for them?

02:32 - 01.314 And we're certainly willing to support PCD in any way that we can.

02:33 - 03.016 A lot of the grants that they are

02:33 - 06.510 now administering were previously in the Department of Education,

02:33 - 10.714 but both, the Grant administration and the funds for those grants

02:33 - 12.759 have been transferred to PCD.

02:33 - 15.762 So and any way that we can assist,

02:33 - 19.123 we have whenever they've reached out and we're willing to continue to do that.

02:33 - 24.695 And, we're willing to be part of any solution

02:33 - 28.933 that, the General Assembly and,

02:33 - 33.437 PCD would like to be party to.

02:33 - 34.181 Okay.

02:33 - 34.582 Thank you.

02:33 - 38.685 And, we, you know, now we have the cell phone ban in the schools.

02:33 - 41.979 Now, it's been signed by the governor, I believe.

02:33 - 45.058 I'm not sure that it's actually been signed yet.

02:33 - 46.560 Okay. Not signed yet.

02:33 - 48.094 Okay. But it's on its way.

02:33 - 48.796 But anyway, if,

02:33 - 52.599 when and if it becomes signed and a lot of the schools have I've talked

02:33 - 57.270 to have bands of some sort already in place, but their request was

02:33 - 00.331 they would like a mandatory minimum of what the

02:34 - 04.177 what the,

02:34 - 05.712 violation would entail, I guess.

02:34 - 08.739 So when you go to tell parents your student did XYZ

02:34 - 11.017 and this is why they're getting

02:34 - 13.320 their phone revoked, or their permit was revoked,

02:34 - 16.547 or they're sitting having to study hall or something like that because

02:34 - 21.228 is there any some point can we discuss that it's going forward as well?

02:34 - 22.353 I mean, because I think

02:34 - 24.265 the school boards

02:34 - 27.291 would like to have some backing from the department

02:34 - 30.270 in the regulations they're setting up and, and make them more uniform

02:34 - 32.539 across districts and across the state

02:34 - 35.966 as what you violate the cell phone being in school.

02:34 - 38.178 You get this the first time you get this the second time,

02:34 - 40.914 third time you're out for a couple days or something like that.

02:34 - 43.350 So it's more uniform across the state.

02:34 - 45.318 And they're not always having to be the bad guy.

02:34 - 49.022 Yes, I am always open to the conversation,

02:34 - 52.249 about, best practices.

02:34 - 55.161 As we look at implementation,

02:34 - 58.898 and to the degree to which those types of decisions

02:34 - 04.938 remain open, after the bill becomes law, if it's signed by the governor

02:35 - 08.198 or if it becomes law, whatever remains open.

02:35 - 10.777 And,

02:35 - 13.804 the department is tasked with implementing,

02:35 - 17.717 we would absolutely be interested in having those conversations.

02:35 - 21.321 So definitely better to do it on the front side where it's part of the bill.

02:35 - 24.915 But certainly we're willing to be part of that discussion.

02:35 - 26.160 Thank you.

02:35 - 29.186 And back to with us, even Senator Culver, is doesn't

02:35 - 32.332 the adequate adequacy funding,

02:35 - 35.669 the schools sort of kind of said they would like to know

02:35 - 37.337 what their minimum would be.

02:35 - 40.473 They could tell us when they're when they're budgeting.

02:35 - 41.675 They don't need to know the full amount.

02:35 - 44.702 But we would like to know we're getting x.

02:35 - 48.415 We might end up getting Y or Z, but at least we know we're getting X.

02:35 - 51.584 We're doing our budget in case our budget runs over like around over this year.

02:35 - 54.521 And they're in a spot where they don't know what they're getting at all.

02:35 - 58.015 I mean, if you could communicate to the schools somehow, some way that,

02:35 - 01.394 hey, your district is getting this amount

02:36 - 02.762 you're getting, that's your bare minimum you're getting.

02:36 - 04.564 This is the minimum you're getting.

02:36 - 07.634 So, you know, when you're doing your budget, this is the bare minimum.

02:36 - 11.061 We might get more, but this is the least amount we're going to get.

02:36 - 14.774 Is that something that's you're touching on

02:36 - 17.143 something that is important for all school districts.

02:36 - 19.879 And that is the predictability in the funding.

02:36 - 24.208 It is particularly difficult to to, to complete a budget

02:36 - 27.387 when you're not you're not sure what your,

02:36 - 30.614 federal dollars would be when you're not sure what your state dollars would be.

02:36 - 32.092 Makes it difficult to know.

02:36 - 35.228 Should you raise taxes, can you pull back a little bit?

02:36 - 40.290 So I understand what the superintendents that you've talked to are seeking.

02:36 - 44.537 And we will certainly give as much advance notice as we can

02:36 - 47.998 for any of the, dollar amounts that we're aware of.

02:36 - 49.609 Okay. Thank you.

02:36 - 51.177 So I have thank you very much for your time today.

02:36 - 52.912 I have to say, I'm disappointed

02:36 - 55.448 that you haven't asked me a question about whole milk.

02:36 - 56.983 Oh, it was on my list.

02:36 - 59.085 But you brought up the food stuff, so. Yeah. Oh.

02:36 - 01.388 I'm sorry. Okay, okay. Are you happy with.

02:37 - 02.256 We got a whole milk back.

02:37 - 07.927 And Scott, I am thrilled that it is now an option I like choices, thank you.

02:37 - 09.471 Agree. Thank you very much. Thank you,

02:37 - 13.824 Senator Dush, followed by Senator Carney.

02:37 - 15.101 Thank you, Secretary Arroyo.

02:37 - 18.204 I'm 100% in agreement and so does my wife, who is a food service

02:37 - 21.231 worker in the schools. Appreciate it.

02:37 - 24.144 I'm very concerned about some of the,

02:37 - 28.505 the what we're seeing is a significant increase in school

02:37 - 33.177 district reserves while they're also raising property taxes.

02:37 - 37.090 Can you, talk about the,

02:37 - 40.317 total amount of school district reserves across the Commonwealth?

02:37 - 43.062 What what you're seeing.

02:37 - 45.965 Yeah, I'm actually not seeing a marked increase

02:37 - 48.992 in the, in the reserve balances. Now,

02:37 - 53.997 we see things on a as a lagging indicator at the department, right?

02:37 - 58.244 When they're required to submit their information to us.

02:37 - 02.382 And how current that is, is maybe slightly less than desirable.

02:38 - 05.518 I understand why it's the way it is, but I haven't seen

02:38 - 08.712 a major uptick in that particular area.

02:38 - 14.785 And certainly as Esser funds and ARP Esser funds have now gone away entirely.

02:38 - 20.090 We're starting to see, anything that had been built up in the past,

02:38 - 25.295 is either exhausted, or has, has dwindled.

02:38 - 29.209 There's also, the lack of ability

02:38 - 33.537 for school districts to raise taxes above the act one limit.

02:38 - 39.185 If their reserve, amounts are above a certain percent.

02:38 - 43.847 So there are some safeguards that are already built in to protect taxpayers.

02:38 - 48.118 Well, one of the things that, just going through some of the numbers, the,

02:38 - 50.864 back in 1928,

02:38 - 55.659 there was about four, 4.8 billion and it went up by 5.5.

02:38 - 00.707 Then it went up another 9% the following year, 12.6%,

02:39 - 05.536 2122 to 5.9, 14%.

02:39 - 08.648 And 2223 to 6.8.

02:39 - 11.417 And it's up to 2324.

02:39 - 13.987 The last year we've seen is about,

02:39 - 16.055 7.3 billion.

02:39 - 20.326 It's about a 60% increase overall in those five years.

02:39 - 24.163 And I'm just not

02:39 - 28.334 I don't get me wrong, I'm a I love our rainy day fund.

02:39 - 31.628 And I understand the reason, the reason for having a reserve fund.

02:39 - 35.408 And given the way we've been with the budget,

02:39 - 38.711 sometimes it's been something that they've had to tap into.

02:39 - 40.947 And I think it's important that they have it.

02:39 - 44.918 But what the corresponding, they're doing it at the same time

02:39 - 49.713 and when they're doing tax increases is something that, for me is a bit of a,

02:39 - 53.359 an alarm signals is what I'll say.

02:39 - 55.862 Yeah. That make what you're saying makes sense.

02:39 - 59.666 That it would raise it would raise alarms for community members.

02:39 - 01.267 And it goes back to that kind of like

02:40 - 03.937 very opening when we're talking about communication,

02:40 - 07.407 it would be incumbent upon the school district to say this.

02:40 - 11.034 We have this amount of and they let me actually finish the thought.

02:40 - 15.815 School districts are required to, to share all of the information.

02:40 - 19.610 And so the community would be aware of what the balances are

02:40 - 24.057 being aware of those balances and seeing a tax increase,

02:40 - 27.584 the school district would need to be able to explain why that is occurring,

02:40 - 30.296 and there could be some valid reasons for it.

02:40 - 33.132 But certainly caution is warranted because,

02:40 - 36.636 there's only a certain amount of money that that people have.

02:40 - 40.506 And so they want to make sure that it is being used wisely.

02:40 - 44.377 So I hear what you're saying, and despite the fact that, you know, roofs

02:40 - 47.838 and Hvac and personnel costs and benefits and all of that

02:40 - 51.818 exists, we still have to make sure that we're we're using things efficiently.

02:40 - 53.386 So I'm I'm with you on that.

02:40 - 57.080 And I think as the ARP Esser funds and Esser funds are

02:40 - 00.426 are removed from school districts budgets, you're going to start

02:41 - 03.453 to see those numbers, go down as well.

02:41 - 07.500 And as a reminder, we're also contributing to this.

02:41 - 09.569 So it's significant.

02:41 - 12.839 To me, I want to go back to something we discussed

02:41 - 15.842 in a previous hearing, the,

02:41 - 20.671 the certification of instructors for the, CTE

02:41 - 24.617 and getting perhaps the,

02:41 - 27.687 I used to do the certification of the instructors.

02:41 - 30.556 Have we had any, movement on that?

02:41 - 32.182 Are we looking to try and

02:41 - 37.563 give give the I use the ability to do

02:41 - 41.191 the certification of these instructors, people who are coming out of the job.

02:41 - 47.240 Job market, I believe we actually did, we were successful in that regard.

02:41 - 50.977 And in some other areas where, through

02:41 - 54.313 regulation, the,

02:41 - 57.340 the school code has been relaxed

02:41 - 00.486 to allow people to enter,

02:42 - 04.357 CTE with, with more flexibility, for example,

02:42 - 09.019 we're now able to take into account some of the life experience

02:42 - 13.099 that, that that's what we were discussing earlier.

02:42 - 15.301 So yes, I appreciate that.

02:42 - 17.203 Fantastic that that's now occurring.

02:42 - 20.840 And I'll tell you what, if you could get us a list of that,

02:42 - 23.076 or at least to make sure I, I'd appreciate it

02:42 - 26.412 because I want to get I've got seven counties that I cover and,

02:42 - 30.941 I would love to get that out so that my I use and my,

02:42 - 34.687 my school districts can start taking advantage of them.

02:42 - 35.711 Okay, we'll do that.

02:42 - 40.827 Senator Carney, followed by Senator Coleman.

02:42 - 43.854 I used to chairman.

02:42 - 45.198 Madam Secretary,

02:42 - 49.836 my district in Delaware County, is probably one of the most diverse

02:42 - 54.173 districts in the in the Commonwealth, certainly among them,

02:42 - 58.478 the administration in Upper Darby High School, believes that there are more

02:42 - 02.439 than 80 different languages spoke spoken in the high school.

02:43 - 05.518 Oh, I don't know how many of those are variations on Bengali, but,

02:43 - 08.845 but the fact remains.

02:43 - 12.792 But, we've heard concerns

02:43 - 17.387 about the potential increases in and Ice activity on school campuses.

02:43 - 20.991 Families of immigrants, regardless of their status,

02:43 - 24.337 are concerned for their safety and the safety of their children.

02:43 - 27.397 We have anecdotal stories about children being held back from school.

02:43 - 30.734 People afraid to go to the grocery store, etc.

02:43 - 34.981 In that regard, I wanted to ask a couple questions about what steps

02:43 - 39.409 the department has or might be taking to ensure the safety of our students.

02:43 - 43.389 Many of these constituents are concerned about potential access

02:43 - 46.383 to personal information on behalf of federal agencies.

02:43 - 49.061 Can you share what information or access to information

02:43 - 52.088 the department shares with any of those agencies?

02:43 - 54.767 And in addition, these individuals are concerned about

02:43 - 58.929 the potential for federal immigration enforcement activity on their campuses.

02:43 - 02.842 And has the department assisted any districts or created any statewide

02:44 - 07.103 policies on access to school campuses for immigration officers?

02:44 - 12.485 And I share your, I share your concern.

02:44 - 15.788 Anytime there is law enforcement activity

02:44 - 19.025 on school campuses, whether it is Ice

02:44 - 22.185 or local police or state police,

02:44 - 26.389 school districts should have a policy in place,

02:44 - 30.369 and probably to a school district.

02:44 - 33.964 If we went to every single school district, I bet they could,

02:44 - 37.777 eventually point to the policy that exists.

02:44 - 43.282 But the problem that schools will have is how many people know what the policy is

02:44 - 47.053 and what is the actual implementation or procedure that should occur

02:44 - 48.187 in their school buildings.

02:44 - 52.082 And so as part of a dear colleague letter,

02:44 - 55.952 we laid out some of the things that schools should be thinking about,

02:44 - 58.998 when they're going to have activity,

02:44 - 02.225 when it's possible that there would be activity for,

02:45 - 05.504 a police presence or,

02:45 - 08.531 ice presence on their campus.

02:45 - 11.844 We're not telling schools what they should think, how they

02:45 - 15.514 how they should go about doing things, but rather these are things that they

02:45 - 16.515 should be considering.

02:45 - 18.517 You mentioned some of them.

02:45 - 23.322 One of them would be, when, a, law

02:45 - 26.349 enforcement officer rings the doorbell, as it were.

02:45 - 31.631 What is the next step for the person who is opening the door, who is answering?

02:45 - 32.999 It's going to be the point of contact.

02:45 - 36.669 Who knows the most about what is the most appropriate

02:45 - 40.139 way of interacting with, law enforcement?

02:45 - 42.875 Should the school solicitor be involved?

02:45 - 44.477 Should it be the superintendent?

02:45 - 48.271 But certainly there needs to be training for that individual who's who's,

02:45 - 49.548 opening the door.

02:45 - 53.519 And then to what degree can the school provide information?

02:45 - 55.888 That's part of their information management system.

02:45 - 58.824 But we need to be careful

02:45 - 03.262 that we're not violating, Sherpa as an example.

02:46 - 06.532 So where there are, particular

02:46 - 10.436 rules in place, that would allow

02:46 - 14.064 for the privacy of student information, are those being followed?

02:46 - 17.467 And then I think there's so many of these things that we,

02:46 - 21.580 put into our dear colleague letter, but another one that we really said

02:46 - 25.418 that schools should be thinking about would be do

02:46 - 29.179 you have appropriate emergency contact information beyond the parent

02:46 - 34.517 so that if, there was anything right, maybe it was a car accident, right.

02:46 - 38.331 But since we're talking about this police action,

02:46 - 43.059 if if a parent were detained while the student were at school

02:46 - 47.230 and wasn't coming to pick the student up, what should happen?

02:46 - 52.902 Do you have the appropriate information to get that student to next of kin?

02:46 - 56.115 So we're having them

02:46 - 00.477 kind of rethink through those procedures again without telling them

02:47 - 02.989 how they should do it. We're just saying

02:47 - 06.016 these are some categories of things that you should think about.

02:47 - 07.728 Well, thank you for that.

02:47 - 12.155 I mean, obviously, there's there's a difference between

02:47 - 15.735 sort of law enforcement in general and,

02:47 - 21.741 and the and, and Ice in terms of, I would think that any school would be

02:47 - 25.177 would welcome law enforcement into their, into their school

02:47 - 28.438 and a, probably have them already on a regular basis.

02:47 - 31.817 I appreciate that.

02:47 - 35.921 Can you just comment on whether or not there's any, policy around

02:47 - 38.948 sharing of a personal information?

02:47 - 42.828 It so far is the,

02:47 - 47.333 the law that comes to mind that, limits

02:47 - 51.370 what schools can share and with whom they can share it.

02:47 - 54.397 And so, school districts

02:47 - 57.476 are in general aware that exist.

02:47 - 01.547 But the degree to which each individual who might encounter law enforcement

02:48 - 04.817 or Ice, understands what they can share

02:48 - 08.154 and what they can't share, I think is going to vary.

02:48 - 12.182 And so that's part of what I think school districts need to do is to say, okay,

02:48 - 16.162 we can't necessarily have our front office staff understanding

02:48 - 20.499 the intricacies of ferma, which sometimes takes an attorney to do.

02:48 - 23.502 So let's make sure that when those questions are asked

02:48 - 25.271 that the front office staff knows that they

02:48 - 28.865 need to defer to the principal and they need to defer to the solicitor,

02:48 - 32.678 as opposed to attempting to answer that and then finding themselves in some

02:48 - 33.903 type of legal quagmire.

02:48 - 35.348 Okay.

02:48 - 36.849 Well, thank you very much, my secretary.

02:48 - 39.843 I appreciate the answer.

02:48 - 42.188 And a shout out to Senator from.

02:48 - 43.889 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good.

02:48 - 45.524 Afternoon, Secretary Rowe.

02:48 - 47.193 Just a brief background.

02:48 - 47.761 I'd like to talk to you

02:48 - 51.263 about a situation that a family my district has encountered.

02:48 - 52.264 They reside in a district

02:48 - 56.192 that participates in a regional career and technical center, CTC.

02:48 - 57.170 And the child

02:48 - 00.396 has been denied access to the CTC because they attend a charter school.

02:49 - 04.110 The family pays taxes within the district that supports the CTC.

02:49 - 07.680 The student's family was told that their application of the CTC

02:49 - 11.450 would be reconsidered only if they left the charter school,

02:49 - 14.878 where the student had been enrolled for four years and has straight A's.

02:49 - 19.058 This appears to also affect school students and raises important questions

02:49 - 22.495 about equitable access to education workforce opportunities.

02:49 - 26.432 So, I'm wondering from PD's perspective, how should we be thinking about equitable

02:49 - 28.234 access to CTE programs

02:49 - 31.570 for students who reside in a district whose families help fund the CTC,

02:49 - 35.407 but who happen to be enrolled in a charter or homeschooled, institution?

02:49 - 38.401 Is this current practice consistent with our statewide goals

02:49 - 40.003 for expanding opportunity?

02:49 - 45.050 Thank you for asking questions about equity.

02:49 - 50.380 I certainly want students to have equitable access to school

02:49 - 54.660 part of the issue that you're highlighting,

02:49 - 58.922 is, the, an issue that relates to choice.

02:49 - 59.900 All right.

02:49 - 03.826 We want parents and students to have choices.

02:50 - 08.665 And part of the choice to go to a cyber school

02:50 - 12.144 necessarily,

02:50 - 16.773 disallows them to go to the, CTC,

02:50 - 22.779 particularly because, CTCs have a,

02:50 - 26.692 a method of funding that requires

02:50 - 31.497 the school districts to feed into, that CTC

02:50 - 36.059 there's a, a board that where the members come from, the school districts.

02:50 - 40.029 So they're already paying in so that the infrastructure,

02:50 - 44.167 and the programs are offered, whereas a charter school would not be.

02:50 - 48.171 Now to the degree to which a charter school might wish to join that

02:50 - 51.841 that's probably something that, could be looked at.

02:50 - 56.312 But until and unless a charter school is part of that,

02:50 - 59.582 then the choice to go to a charter school

02:50 - 02.885 is limiting their ability to do the CTC.

02:51 - 05.431 Okay. Thank you, Secretary Rowe.

02:51 - 09.134 I just want to I also represent,

02:51 - 12.404 and we would look at, I guess, potentially trying to work that out.

02:51 - 14.540 Then to give an option. Right.

02:51 - 18.501 Because it just doesn't feel if or if, if the CTC support CD

02:51 - 21.247 is supposed to be available for all high school students,

02:51 - 24.383 if it's for families making that choice because it's a better situation

02:51 - 27.567 for their family, maybe to get their children out of an under performing school,

02:51 - 30.322 it doesn't seem to penalize them if they are still paying

02:51 - 33.726 the taxes in that district from that educational opportunity.

02:51 - 37.129 So, we will definitely try to come up with a solution for that.

02:51 - 40.432 I also have the privilege of representing Allentown School District.

02:51 - 44.136 And as you know, over the past decade, Allentown School District has received

02:51 - 47.239 over an additional 100 almost $100 million in additional funding.

02:51 - 50.175 Meanwhile, performance continues to plummet.

02:51 - 53.078 Just make it make sense.

02:51 - 57.340 I I I it's hard to look at this.

02:51 - 59.518 We know it's clear.

02:51 - 04.456 The more money is not fixing the problem, it really isn't even stopping.

02:52 - 07.483 And after $100 million, if the needle hasn't moved,

02:52 - 10.920 arguably the momentum required could have to be another billion.

02:52 - 13.766 You know, or another 500 million.

02:52 - 16.793 And that just seems out of control.

02:52 - 20.639 What else can we do besides the money?

02:52 - 23.800 I mean, the data shows it's it's only getting worse the more money we put in.

02:52 - 28.547 What else can we do besides money?

02:52 - 30.516 I hear from teachers that are overwhelmed because

02:52 - 32.351 they're playing the role of parents.

02:52 - 35.611 And they want to just be focusing on teaching.

02:52 - 38.557 But so much is being pushed upon them.

02:52 - 41.584 What what can we do besides funding,

02:52 - 44.430 do you think if you asked the same teachers

02:52 - 46.198 and I guess we're playing a hypothetical game here,

02:52 - 49.468 so this could be dangerous, but do you think if you asked the teachers,

02:52 - 53.062 would it be helpful if you had, fewer students,

02:52 - 56.632 to personalize the instruction for that?

02:52 - 58.477 Would that be helpful?

02:52 - 59.936 I mean, I think I think in general,

02:53 - 03.682 teachers who,

02:53 - 07.786 work in high needs areas would appreciate the ability

02:53 - 11.647 to, to personalize and have fewer kids that they're actually focusing on.

02:53 - 13.759 But how do you actually get to that?

02:53 - 18.287 You can only get to that by having, a school facility

02:53 - 22.534 that has the space for that to occur and by having highly qualified

02:53 - 26.796 instructors in both so that both of those things take, money.

02:53 - 30.466 You also need to look at what is the instruction,

02:53 - 33.512 what is the curriculum that's being delivered.

02:53 - 38.141 We heard earlier about somebody having, something from 1995,

02:53 - 42.445 or their textbook was particularly particularly out of date.

02:53 - 46.759 So I would want to know what is the curriculum look like in that school.

02:53 - 48.160 And it would often

02:53 - 51.997 take funding in order for the curriculum to be brought up to speed.

02:53 - 55.425 So I don't think it's an either or, like, we can't give any more money.

02:53 - 59.362 Yeah, it's probably going to take there's probably going to be additional expenses.

02:53 - 00.973 But what I hear you saying is

02:54 - 04.801 how can we be more efficient with the with the money that we're giving?

02:54 - 06.779 And that's something that I can get behind.

02:54 - 10.473 That's something I can say, let's do some type of root cause analysis

02:54 - 13.419 and figure out what are the most important things,

02:54 - 14.820 or what's the biggest bang for

02:54 - 17.847 the buck that we could do that's going to make the biggest change.

02:54 - 21.384 I would also caution us against looking just at test scores.

02:54 - 24.821 Look at the entire future ready index and let's see

02:54 - 29.759 what are the other things, that are, that are indicators of success,

02:54 - 32.871 including getting kids to come to school.

02:54 - 36.141 What's keeping students from coming to school on a regular basis?

02:54 - 37.676 What's making them truant?

02:54 - 39.278 Let's see if we can figure those things out.

02:54 - 43.039 And then we begin to make a difference in the lives of of generations to come.

02:54 - 45.317 Yeah. And, I mean, I think you're right.

02:54 - 48.120 Maybe not the test scores, but even when we look at the proficiency,

02:54 - 50.322 I mean, some of the Allentown School district, less than half

02:54 - 53.725 the kids are are proficient, in reading and math.

02:54 - 54.749 And that's even

02:54 - 56.329 that's a problem.

02:54 - 58.597 And we need to fix it because we're just shortchanging the kids.

02:54 - 03.769 So, and they deserve to have access to, quality education.

02:55 - 06.205 I do believe they actually do have access to that education.

02:55 - 08.907 Now they just have to take advantage of it.

02:55 - 12.578 I do believe that those teachers provide a good education, but they do

02:55 - 16.014 have to take advantage of the parents do have to play a role in their

02:55 - 19.351 their children children's educational, you know, life.

02:55 - 21.019 And so I appreciate all the input you had.

02:55 - 23.121 We'll look forward to working on some of those other ways

02:55 - 27.149 to be more efficient, with our with our, tax dollars here.

02:55 - 29.962 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:55 - 31.163 Thank you. Senator.

02:55 - 33.065 So you come to the point where I'm the last person.

02:55 - 36.368 But however, I realize you've been sitting in those seats now for a while.

02:55 - 36.970 This.

02:55 - 40.772 Would anyone like to take a quick bathroom break or do you want me to proceed?

02:55 - 42.674 And we'll get this done?

02:55 - 45.644 Meaning you're the last question on the last questioner.

02:55 - 47.670 Let's do this. All right.

02:55 - 52.518 I mean, anyway,

02:55 - 53.585 sorry, I should say we're good.

02:55 - 55.787 I should have looked to them first. Yeah, right.

02:55 - 56.189 Yeah.

02:55 - 57.923 I just got excited over here.

02:55 - 59.725 All right,

02:55 - 00.159 all right.

02:56 - 02.327 Well, I know it's been a long morning, but,

02:56 - 06.155 hey, instead of being here all day, you'll be done for the day. Now.

02:56 - 09.191 Now I'm definitely ready. All right,

02:56 - 12.471 so, there's

02:56 - 13.339 a couple things.

02:56 - 16.365 Get some caffeine up.

02:56 - 19.669 I'm assuming that's a soda.

02:56 - 20.946 It's not whole milk.

02:56 - 23.973 All right, all right.

02:56 - 27.310 So. And out of respect for the fact, I think I heard a comment.

02:56 - 28.521 What?

02:56 - 33.716 Less people that asked this question, related to the child care issue.

02:56 - 39.064 If you're attorneys advising you not to respond, and I obviously respect

02:56 - 42.091 that for what's going on, but just just to drive home,

02:56 - 45.003 why this issue is important.

02:56 - 48.640 You know, and I know my office has asked to see the enrollment

02:56 - 53.135 for 24, 25, from from the department, in January.

02:56 - 55.581 And we haven't gotten anything back yet.

02:56 - 00.986 But the highest point of this one entity that we were speaking of that

02:57 - 06.449 ranged from a high of, a low of 430 slots to 544 slots.

02:57 - 10.319 There was only three of those months where they actually were able to fill

02:57 - 11.686 half of them.

02:57 - 14.466 The other month was a quarter,

02:57 - 18.527 early on, they were getting money early on the 430 slots, and there was

02:57 - 22.131 none of them had enrollees in them in the very beginning.

02:57 - 24.676 And then it started to tail off.

02:57 - 28.313 The last check that we had on January of 2025,

02:57 - 33.242 they had 544 slots and only 176 enrollees.

02:57 - 37.489 And when I say enrollees, that's not taking into account

02:57 - 40.716 were they actually showing up and the attendance aspect.

02:57 - 44.429 So I think we've probably talked about this enough.

02:57 - 46.598 We know it's a very important issue.

02:57 - 50.302 I think it's only going to get more important, as time

02:57 - 54.039 goes on here and especially after it's an investigation is complete.

02:57 - 57.142 But, for the sake of Pennsylvania families

02:57 - 00.703 who really need this for we can do right by them. And,

02:58 - 05.274 and, reallocate where there is need

02:58 - 08.944 and hold accountable where maybe getting abused,

02:58 - 13.358 there obviously was questions about CTCs today.

02:58 - 16.686 And I will say whether we were talking about earlier,

02:58 - 21.257 it's amazing seeing where young people are trying to get into high demand fields.

02:58 - 24.369 Everyone realizes the ongoing

02:58 - 27.606 cliff, of of trade related fields.

02:58 - 29.207 We need in Pennsylvania,

02:58 - 33.111 the people who keep our infrastructure going, who respond,

02:58 - 36.138 we don't know how to fix a plumbing issue, things like that.

02:58 - 40.142 I also come from an area where we are literally busting at the seams.

02:58 - 45.691 I can personally say as a, as someone who had a son who absolutely loved

02:58 - 51.253 welding, lived, breathed, it did not make the cut for his senior year.

02:58 - 54.433 And it was like an 80 person wait list

02:58 - 57.460 just in that field to get in.

02:58 - 59.805 He didn't want to do another area.

02:58 - 01.397 He was passionate about welding.

02:59 - 03.875 What's

02:59 - 06.812 very important on our end is what are we doing?

02:59 - 08.980 The kind of fill in the gaps.

02:59 - 11.750 Because if you have teachers and needs, educators

02:59 - 13.518 who have been working with these kids for many,

02:59 - 17.346 many years understand what their passion is, what they have a love for,

02:59 - 20.225 where do they go if they don't get to be in it?

02:59 - 23.328 You know, yesterday I was telling the story of how our CTC

02:59 - 26.622 a few years ago had classrooms full of nursing,

02:59 - 30.159 nurses, young people who wanted to get into nursing.

02:59 - 33.472 They ended up having to cancel the classes because we,

02:59 - 37.042 you know, first it was about how we had to, you know, try to bend the rules.

02:59 - 38.710 Working collaboratively with D.o.e..

02:59 - 43.038 At the time, I remember on who could actually teach the class.

02:59 - 46.985 Then we ran into collective bargaining agreement issues in terms of what

02:59 - 48.086 you could try to go out there

02:59 - 51.113 and offer that right kind of nurse to come and teach your class.

02:59 - 53.859 But where do those here you have young people who are passionate

02:59 - 56.795 about getting into something we know is a critical need.

02:59 - 58.096 Where do they go?

02:59 - 59.231 And they fall through the cracks.

02:59 - 01.867 And I know it's a, a topic.

03:00 - 04.870 How can we expand capacity for career

03:00 - 07.897 and technical opportunities which are going to continue to grow?

03:00 - 10.742 How do we come up with creative solutions

03:00 - 13.445 for the ones that we don't have space for?

03:00 - 16.248 But maybe we can come up with something alternate?

03:00 - 19.708 I once heard of a great idea of the, you know, a local ABC

03:00 - 22.711 with their with their, apprenticeship program can,

03:00 - 25.657 you know, could the kids next door if we could have someone cover

03:00 - 28.860 the core classes that may be needed, and then the rest of the day,

03:00 - 31.163 they spend next door in the apprenticeship,

03:00 - 34.065 because if they have a passion for it, and that's what they want to do,

03:00 - 38.060 and Lord knows we have a need for it, I think we need to find a way that

03:00 - 41.606 where can we knock down bureaucratic hurdles in order to make it work.

03:00 - 45.010 So, I appreciate that conversation.

03:00 - 46.411 It's a very important one.

03:00 - 49.672 And, and, and we all know that we that that we really need it.

03:00 - 53.342 A couple other issues.

03:00 - 55.521 Last October

03:00 - 58.957 22nd, I was speaking on the Senate floor about the projected

03:00 - 01.984 decline in the number of students in our public schools

03:01 - 06.989 and at the at the at the time, I referred to projections on the D.o.e.

03:01 - 11.760 website showing a decline in the number of students in public schools from 201920

03:01 - 18.567 through 2028, 2029, of about 108,500 students, or about 6.8%.

03:01 - 22.638 Just a few days after my full remarks on October 29th,

03:01 - 27.343 the department posted new data showing a significant change in the projections.

03:01 - 31.914 The new data posted shows a decline of just 58,500 students,

03:01 - 35.451 about half the number of students on the website previously.

03:01 - 40.866 Can you kind of fill me in as to where the new projections came from,

03:01 - 45.694 why new ones came all of a sudden, and why did the numbers change so much?

03:01 - 50.408 I am racking my brain.

03:01 - 53.736 Well, first we listen to you two.

03:01 - 58.507 It's clear that, people have brought up, some things that I've said in the past,

03:01 - 01.653 and they had questions about it, which I very much appreciate it.

03:02 - 04.680 And it's clear that when you were speaking and using those projections,

03:02 - 08.727 we were listening to, and I remember hearing,

03:02 - 13.498 the projection and saying, wait, where did that come from?

03:02 - 16.167 Is that accurate? What's he referencing?

03:02 - 19.404 And I remember us going, and again, I remember,

03:02 - 23.975 asking several questions about the data

03:02 - 27.002 and how it was, arrived at

03:02 - 30.849 and, and making sure

03:02 - 35.720 that it was as accurate as it needs to be, I think I would have to get back to you.

03:02 - 39.758 I cannot put my put my finger on what it was that we found.

03:02 - 41.559 Do you do you recall? Okay.

03:02 - 46.197 I can't put my finger on what it was, in the way that that was being calculated,

03:02 - 50.802 that I felt like wasn't,

03:02 - 53.896 wasn't representing what was actually happening.

03:02 - 55.841 Everything that

03:02 - 58.944 we do is meant to be transparent.

03:02 - 00.979 It's meant to allow for accountability.

03:03 - 02.480 I want that to occur.

03:03 - 07.009 And that's why you would have seen a change, occur on the website.

03:03 - 10.822 I'll figure out what that particular nuance was and have have

03:03 - 13.849 our team get back to you on that clarify.

03:03 - 17.987 Can I clarify that that was enrollment and not average daily membership?

03:03 - 21.099 You were talking about enrollment data.

03:03 - 24.093 I mean, the data bridge daily membership data.

03:03 - 25.004 They can be different.

03:03 - 28.030 And I just want to okay, okay.

03:03 - 33.469 Certainly we are dealing with a decline in our K through 12,

03:03 - 36.715 whether we want to call it average

03:03 - 40.342 daily enrollment or overall enrollment, average daily membership,

03:03 - 43.922 enrollment and enrollment, literally, we just had, what, two years ago?

03:03 - 47.683 We had the smallest kindergarten enrollment since 1986.

03:03 - 50.528 Does that sound correct?

03:03 - 54.299 That's working its way through, I see and head nodding over here to

03:03 - 57.202 so certainly what we are faced with, and no one can disagree

03:03 - 00.229 with the fact that our bursary placement rates are much lower,

03:04 - 03.966 that we are going to can you see you see a decline?

03:04 - 07.403 I know we saw a study by the centers for rural, Pennsylvania

03:04 - 12.074 that believes by 2035 it'll be down another 17% overall.

03:04 - 16.011 So that does impact what we do.

03:04 - 19.882 It impacts what we prepare for and plan for,

03:04 - 23.619 so I was very curious as to that change.

03:04 - 28.223 You also find Secretary as we've gotten to know each other.

03:04 - 29.168 This may surprise you.

03:04 - 31.636 I'm a little bit of a data freak, right?

03:04 - 35.840 I thought I heard you start to say something

03:04 - 40.612 in one of the conversations that we were 49th and higher education.

03:04 - 42.304 Is that correct? That's correct.

03:04 - 44.749 So, you

03:04 - 48.787 know, I know the backstory of that 49th in that same report that that

03:04 - 53.148 that National Association of Financial Experts also warned people,

03:04 - 57.429 going back to our apples to apples conversation that, utilizing

03:04 - 01.557 one data set from the entire report that they gave could be very deceptive.

03:05 - 05.670 If people really like to know where we stand, we are actually.

03:05 - 07.105 And I heard we're actually improved.

03:05 - 09.307 And I'm waiting for the new data set to come out.

03:05 - 11.009 We are 14th among states

03:05 - 14.169 and taxpayer funds to public institutions in the entire country.

03:05 - 18.083 Better than that, we are eighth among states in

03:05 - 21.110 need based grant aid provided.

03:05 - 23.888 And that's critical because as much as we talk about

03:05 - 28.059 public institutions, let's not forget 47% of Pennsylvania's

03:05 - 31.720 graduates come from independent institutions that are out there.

03:05 - 33.231 So we're eighth.

03:05 - 36.959 We're 13th among states in need based per full time equivalent.

03:05 - 40.371 And of course, one that will not shock anybody because we have such

03:05 - 44.199 a dense amount of a higher education infrastructure in Pennsylvania

03:05 - 48.003 is that Pennsylvania ranked second in imported students.

03:05 - 51.282 I'd love to keep more of them here once they're done to.

03:05 - 55.844 So it's always very important when we're making policy

03:05 - 59.257 and we're making policy arguments that the arguments

03:05 - 02.751 that we make are being rooted in things that are factual.

03:06 - 08.600 We do have and this is going to transition

03:06 - 12.127 into some of the right sizing discussions that I heard today.

03:06 - 17.432 We go through it in many different things that are core government services.

03:06 - 20.912 If you're aware, we're going through it with the Department of Corrections.

03:06 - 23.047 We've made tremendous strides.

03:06 - 26.251 You know, we went from being a state that was renting space from other states.

03:06 - 27.519 Now we're to the point where

03:06 - 30.512 we're closing institutions because we don't need the bed space.

03:06 - 33.815 I'll give credit where credit credit is due.

03:06 - 36.861 I believe somewhere along the line, I think the school District

03:06 - 41.857 of Philadelphia might be down about 25% in enrollment over the last 3 or 4 years.

03:06 - 46.037 They're actively looking to reduce

03:06 - 49.932 their educational infrastructure footprint by about 20 buildings.

03:06 - 52.777 Kudos to them for for doing that.

03:06 - 55.880 My own school district, the School District of Lancaster, they've been down

03:06 - 59.541 about 15% enrollment over the course of the last three and a half years.

03:06 - 02.387 They've made announcements that they're going to close one.

03:07 - 05.414 The school of what's an elementary school there?

03:07 - 08.817 And, you know, because that excess capacity cost money

03:07 - 14.122 staffing, heating, even if they ended up having them mothballed, that cost money.

03:07 - 17.435 And so when you make what seems to be tough choices,

03:07 - 21.406 but they're the right choices then then we're and I heard you just saying

03:07 - 26.802 about more efficiently using our dollars, is is really critically important.

03:07 - 28.413 But the same thing is going to go

03:07 - 30.415 we're already seeing happen on the private side

03:07 - 32.808 and the public side related to higher education.

03:07 - 35.386 We certainly have heard stories

03:07 - 39.481 of private entities being bought by other entities or closing down.

03:07 - 41.726 We certainly are well aware of the fact

03:07 - 45.554 and I give her great credit with president, Bennett of Penn State.

03:07 - 49.300 When you have, Commonwealth campuses of her hers

03:07 - 54.062 that had 300 students on it that literally was built for 3000,

03:07 - 57.108 you can understand the decisions of why they had

03:07 - 00.535 to to make some of those tough choices and closing those that those things.

03:08 - 04.882 I was intimately involved in the mergers of what

03:08 - 08.377 ended up becoming Penn West and Commonwealth University.

03:08 - 11.947 I will tell you, on the surface, that seems like a good thing.

03:08 - 15.760 Beneath the surface, when people found out there was a little secret side agreement

03:08 - 17.262 not to touch your number one cost.

03:08 - 22.324 Driver personnel is part of that downsizing for four years,

03:08 - 25.870 then that kind of works against you.

03:08 - 27.939 And people wonder if you have an institution

03:08 - 32.100 that has a college department that has 13 professors with only 12 kids

03:08 - 35.304 enrolled in that major, that's a problem.

03:08 - 38.716 I was having a conversation with the Chancellor the other day.

03:08 - 42.644 I believe it was an area of finance or accounting where they had something

03:08 - 46.024 to the tune of 7 or 7 different programs

03:08 - 49.060 around the state, in the state system in that area.

03:08 - 51.996 And there's about 15 professors in that area.

03:08 - 56.425 They graduated seven students or something along that line in it,

03:08 - 59.961 but they're looking at that stuff that's important.

03:09 - 02.307 On how we Rightsize things.

03:09 - 05.334 But I also heard some reference to grow

03:09 - 08.637 today.

03:09 - 11.816 Not just for me.

03:09 - 14.018 So why is that important?

03:09 - 17.279 Yes, grow pay is is meant to be,

03:09 - 21.383 be honest with our kids about where the high demand job fields were,

03:09 - 26.764 no different than probably the mistake of a generation of telling kids

03:09 - 29.791 that they only needed a four year college degree has come back to haunt us,

03:09 - 31.993 and has left a lot of kids with a lot of debt.

03:09 - 36.641 Telling kids where exactly you're going to get a great job and

03:09 - 39.811 and that great that that's what I love about this program.

03:09 - 42.513 I love the fact that it's actually money that goes to them,

03:09 - 44.782 that it's less money that they have to borrow.

03:09 - 45.050 Right?

03:09 - 50.521 I love the fact that it also makes colleges more think more relevantly

03:09 - 53.548 as to what they offer in their curriculum as to what's important.

03:09 - 57.061 And I love to see them compete and do things.

03:09 - 59.797 And of course, the most important selfish reason for

03:09 - 02.667 this is their commitment to staying in this state.

03:10 - 05.536 And hopefully they meet the love of their life.

03:10 - 06.305 They fall in love,

03:10 - 08.706 they plant their roots here, and because they have less debt,

03:10 - 11.142 they're able to get a mortgage and have kids.

03:10 - 13.845 And we can try to start turning around this demographic decline.

03:10 - 19.584 So, I, I'm very hopeful that we can continue to grow those efforts.

03:10 - 21.519 I mean, we had more than double the number of kids

03:10 - 24.613 apply than we had available moneys for in the first round.

03:10 - 29.117 But it's something I think we should really all rally behind.

03:10 - 32.330 My final question

03:10 - 36.601 I'd like to talk about, and this is more of a localized issue,

03:10 - 38.825 and I'm sure you probably saw it and you're aware of it.

03:10 - 41.572 About three weeks ago,

03:10 - 45.276 it was reported that the school district of Lancaster is faced with roughly

03:10 - 50.405 a 10 to $15 million budget shortfall for the 25 through 26 school year,

03:10 - 55.143 driven by 15.3 million and overspending in the prior year.

03:10 - 58.156 I know the department operates a school District.

03:10 - 01.183 Financial Recovery Early Warning System,

03:11 - 04.920 which monitors school district finances to help prevent fiscal crises.

03:11 - 08.156 Are you monitoring that situation in Lancaster School District,

03:11 - 11.436 and are you able to provide any update

03:11 - 15.464 as it's become a pretty sizable concern over the last few weeks?

03:11 - 20.478 With what direction financially it's going and making sure that we can,

03:11 - 23.505 keep them stabilized fiscally

03:11 - 26.150 and that that is an issue that we're aware of.

03:11 - 29.377 But as you mentioned, it is a relatively recent,

03:11 - 35.283 thing that has that has come out. So,

03:11 - 41.866 our, school recovery wouldn't be part of that.

03:11 - 45.427 That's generally something that where there's systemic issues,

03:11 - 50.575 but our, budget office would be, working with them

03:11 - 55.913 to figure out what exactly caused it, what types of errors or oversights

03:11 - 58.983 might have occurred, discussion about how they might be

03:11 - 02.010 able to,

03:12 - 04.722 make up for some of that moving forward.

03:12 - 07.725 It's going to be a painful process, for sure, but,

03:12 - 10.752 everything is better when it's in the sunlight.

03:12 - 14.365 So now that it is, we can begin the repair process

03:12 - 16.667 and also make sure that there are

03:12 - 19.895 processes in place so that something like this doesn't happen again.

03:12 - 21.539 Well, I appreciate that.

03:12 - 24.909 And, you know, if there's any technical assistance along

03:12 - 28.746 the way that can be given to to help them get through,

03:12 - 30.548 you know, what they're going through now,

03:12 - 32.350 because obviously we do not want to see that.

03:12 - 35.644 And at the end of the day, it's about the future for those kids, too,

03:12 - 36.888 and their opportunity.

03:12 - 38.923 So just just keeping an eye on it.

03:12 - 42.784 I'll just say in closing,

03:12 - 47.198 We get in a lot of different

03:12 - 50.625 battles over money and,

03:12 - 54.272 formulas and, and,

03:12 - 57.599 you know, what is equity in terms of our kids?

03:12 - 01.646 I think the first thing that if we can all rally around the, the,

03:13 - 05.516 the general consensus that, all our kids are not one size

03:13 - 08.944 fits all, all our kids learn from,

03:13 - 12.047 different experiences.

03:13 - 17.586 Sometimes very bad as to why they can't return to a potential

03:13 - 21.623 a school environment or their what their, their individual learning needs are,

03:13 - 24.735 issues with socialization.

03:13 - 28.973 There can be many different reasons why people need to look at different aspects.

03:13 - 32.300 But but if we can be fair to all families realizing that, you know,

03:13 - 35.446 the one thing I've always seen

03:13 - 39.207 in parents who exercise choice in some fashion

03:13 - 42.453 are active,

03:13 - 45.790 engaged, and they're making the choice

03:13 - 48.817 for a reason.

03:13 - 52.897 Sometimes I think that gets lost

03:13 - 55.199 in some of those conversations.

03:13 - 58.660 You know, when we were sitting here and sometimes I hear a lot of the,

03:13 - 02.330 the fiscal battles over things like cyber charter schools,

03:14 - 07.569 my mind always reverts back to one specific young lady that I met

03:14 - 11.849 who, the reason why she left her school and went to a cyber charter school,

03:14 - 15.219 and she's doing fine now, is she's recovered from having her face

03:14 - 19.948 and orbital bones smashed by a classmate.

03:14 - 23.861 And even when I met her, she hardly could even still look through this.

03:14 - 27.222 I and I think as a parent, you understand why they be afraid

03:14 - 31.159 to return to a place where they may have been hurt.

03:14 - 35.740 If we all came at this from the angle of parents

03:14 - 38.767 make decisions for a specific reason,

03:14 - 44.439 I think a lot of our disagreements in Harrisburg would be much easier.

03:14 - 47.542 A lot of our battles on on this, issue,

03:14 - 50.655 and sadly,

03:14 - 54.325 you know, whether it was my two years chairing education or even now my role

03:14 - 59.454 as appropriations chairman, I wish more people would darken my door

03:14 - 03.291 to want to talk about how we get better outcomes.

03:15 - 06.337 How do we get people better in reading?

03:15 - 10.408 How do we help the young lady who was raped by a classmate

03:15 - 13.435 who doesn't want to return to that same school?

03:15 - 17.915 But all too often I get inundated with nothing

03:15 - 20.942 but protecting pieces of pie and financially.

03:15 - 26.548 That what's going to give us best outcomes.

03:15 - 29.260 You know, no one.

03:15 - 30.728 If he really wanted the truth, the matter.

03:15 - 33.464 I was looking at some stats the other day about 2014.

03:15 - 37.726 We had about, 1.75 million students in Pennsylvania.

03:15 - 42.506 There was a court challenge to us

03:15 - 46.000 saying we weren't doing enough to fund education, that there was an adequacy gap.

03:15 - 47.468 If you recall, that,

03:15 - 50.347 and very interesting statistics.

03:15 - 53.374 And I I'm going to pull it up right here as I was

03:15 - 58.279 doing my normal data set geeking out,

03:16 - 05.963 In 2020, it was said that they needed an extra $4.6

03:16 - 09.624 billion to achieve adequacy, 4.6 billion

03:16 - 13.604 for how much money we've put in the public.

03:16 - 16.631 K through 12 education since our lawsuit was filed.

03:16 - 23.948 Been are you referring to.

03:16 - 24.716 I'm just asking.

03:16 - 28.209 I'm just saying you don't have that 8 million lower, 8 billion.

03:16 - 34.391 The other part of this is we've actually have declined in enrollment.

03:16 - 36.193 On top of that.

03:16 - 39.430 And it's one thing to talk about statewide averages, but some of the places

03:16 - 42.457 that we give absolutely the most amount of money to,

03:16 - 48.096 are the ones seeing the largest declines in enrollment as well.

03:16 - 51.108 I come from an area what for for for decades

03:16 - 54.445 have been growing tremendously and for a long time.

03:16 - 55.946 And this isn't a political issue.

03:16 - 57.481 It's not Republican or Democrat.

03:16 - 59.617 This is a geographical issue.

03:16 - 02.486 You know, if you look at a map about,

03:17 - 05.513 the people who complain the most about property taxes

03:17 - 07.291 traditionally are ones that are getting the short

03:17 - 11.286 end of the shaft on the on the school funding formula, because for a long time,

03:17 - 15.966 provisions like hold harmless or respecting where we've had tremendous

03:17 - 19.761 growth in the Commonwealth, the formula never adjusted

03:17 - 23.707 because you can have a severe decline enrollment somewhere.

03:17 - 26.277 But the way the Commonwealth hands out money,

03:17 - 28.212 no school will ever get a dollar less than that.

03:17 - 29.236 The year before.

03:17 - 33.450 And so I would argue that as I hear

03:17 - 36.911 people say, that they are underfunded versus their peers.

03:17 - 40.724 Yet on paper I see that they're getting 4 to 5 times

03:17 - 44.686 more state aid than those other peers right next door.

03:17 - 47.832 Oh, and by the way, there's other peer chairs next door getting the double

03:17 - 50.859 gut punch of higher property taxes to make up for it.

03:17 - 55.206 I think we have a long way to go to achieve that.

03:17 - 58.266 That that word I often hear is is equity.

03:17 - 02.213 One other thing that really bothers me about how we do things

03:18 - 07.508 is we often rely on a group of legislators, right?

03:18 - 09.019 And I love my colleagues,

03:18 - 10.955 and I know what they're doing is they're fighting for

03:18 - 13.648 what's in the best interest of their districts.

03:18 - 15.460 Well, when you're creating a

03:18 - 18.453 funding formula that actually impacts the whole entire state,

03:18 - 21.890 that doesn't necessarily always mean you're going to be doing the right thing.

03:18 - 24.168 I've sat on these commissions.

03:18 - 27.838 I think I heard reference to the Special Education Funding Commission earlier.

03:18 - 28.640 I sat on that.

03:18 - 32.409 I've been around there, you know, here to me, I look at equity

03:18 - 36.247 as being every kid in the Commonwealth on a base capacity

03:18 - 38.249 should be worth the same amount,

03:18 - 41.276 no matter what the color of their skin is or their economic status.

03:18 - 44.288 I think we should have a poverty pot.

03:18 - 45.890 Are you have kids that qualify for it?

03:18 - 47.057 They should get it.

03:18 - 49.293 We should have a special education pot.

03:18 - 50.461 But right now, the way we do

03:18 - 54.322 things is we'll say a whole entire school district is disadvantaged.

03:18 - 00.070 Well, if I know that school district also has some of the the richest real estate

03:19 - 05.976 in, in in my county or some of the best, million dollar condos also as well.

03:19 - 08.970 Yet they're all in that poor district.

03:19 - 13.050 And you know what else it does on the flip side of it, what we call is a school

03:19 - 16.210 district that maybe people perceive and they're called they're better off.

03:19 - 19.723 What does that mean for the kid who isn't better off?

03:19 - 21.182 That's in that school district?

03:19 - 23.795 I think there's a

03:19 - 26.821 better way that we can achieve that word equity.

03:19 - 30.668 If we looked at it from a more equitable proposition

03:19 - 33.704 and really make sure dollars go to the the intended target.

03:19 - 36.731 So we have a ways to go on this subject area.

03:19 - 39.576 And we have a lot of people that are committed to,

03:19 - 42.012 to making a difference in the lives of our kids

03:19 - 45.249 and make sure they have opportunities to, to,

03:19 - 48.276 you know, climb that economic ladder and achieve their dreams.

03:19 - 52.213 But sometimes I wish we'd see a lot less political grenades

03:19 - 55.850 or special advocates, you know, the things that they want to see.

03:19 - 59.263 And let's put everything through the eyes of what's best

03:19 - 03.667 for a kid and their family and their opportunities for the future.

03:20 - 06.003 If we do that, we'll be a better Commonwealth for the future.

03:20 - 10.131 So, thank you for being here today.

03:20 - 13.744 Thank you for letting me vent to,

03:20 - 19.173 I, I appreciate you working with us as we made, changes to the calendar.

03:20 - 21.118 It's been a long two weeks.

03:20 - 21.987 I want to say a special

03:20 - 25.680 thank you to all my colleagues for their dedication, time, and effort.

03:20 - 27.691 There have been. Yeah.

03:20 - 29.393 And and a lot of the hard work.

03:20 - 33.154 And, of course, none of it without the help of the the staff members,

03:20 - 36.500 on both sides, the hard work that you guys put into making sure

03:20 - 39.527 this is all together and coordinated is greatly appreciated.

03:20 - 42.406 This serves as an informational session.

03:20 - 44.641 First and foremost, I know there's things that we said

03:20 - 47.668 we'd get back and forth from each other on this.

03:20 - 51.248 And of course, hopefully we'll we'll take that information

03:20 - 55.710 and try to get a, a budget that is settled for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

03:20 - 58.055 As soon as that, we as soon as we can.

03:20 - 01.458 So with that, the Senate Appropriations Committee stands in recess.

03:21 - 02.482 Thank you all.