00:00 - The department of corrections and the Pennsylvania parole board

00:03 - in attendance we have dr Laurel r hairy

00:06 - secretary department of corrections Kelly Evans executive

00:09 - deputy secretary for reentry community corrections

00:12 - and parole field services.

00:15 - Christopher oppmann deputy secretary of administration

00:18 - and doctor Michaels akin deputies secretary for the western region

00:22 - from the parole board we have Jim fox chairman of the Pennsylvania

00:25 - parole board welcome everyone can I ask you each to please stand

00:29 - to be sworn in and if you could raise your right hand.

00:33 - Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give us the truth the whole truth and

00:35 - nothing but the truth so help you god knows so indicate by saying I do.

00:39 - Thank you very much

00:40 - as reference for members of the audience the general fund budget for the department

00:43 - of corrections and the Pennsylvania parole board is three point four billion dollars

00:48 - I'm going to start off with a few questions

00:50 - before turning it over to my colleagues

00:52 - over past several years the department of corrections has taken significant steps

00:57 - to right-size operations and reduce costs

00:59 - as we continue to evaluate efficiency and fiscal responsibility it's critical to

01:03 - examine areas where spending trends

01:05 - such as overtime may undermine those efforts.

01:08 - At sci Chester several corrections officer positions are reporting overtime comp

01:13 - station ranging between one hundred and twenty

01:15 - thousand to one hundred and eighty thousand annually

01:17 - in overtime compensation.

01:19 - Canada department confirm whether these figures represent base salary plus overtime

01:24 - or they strictly overtime earnings.

01:28 - Those are just strictly overtime that does not include their base salary.

01:33 - Does it department recognize six figure overtime payouts at sci Chester as a concern

01:38 - or does a concert of this level of overtime

01:40 - sustainable.

01:42 - It is sustainable I mean

01:43 - if if officers want to be aggressive and take overtime and volunteer for that amount.

01:48 - They are able to do so well our biggest concern

01:51 - is trying to reduce that mandatory overtime

01:53 - or staff

01:54 - would rather be going home to their families

01:57 - we try to

01:58 - limit that as much as possible

02:00 - so with a one example that I have here is as an officer the logged approximately two

02:04 - thousand eight hundred and eighty three hours of overtime

02:07 - and resulting in roughly one hundred and

02:09 - eighty two thousand and overtime earnings alone

02:12 - and

02:13 - in terms of.

02:16 - This is

02:17 - curse in multiple industries

02:19 - does there come a point of concern with

02:21 - how often the person is working overtime in their ability to safely

02:25 - perform their job.

02:27 - Sure we are the we've done a lot

02:29 - around staff wellness which I

02:31 - hopefully will have a chance to talk about

02:33 - but I think it is important I've I've common

02:36 - on this before and I'm sure you're aware as well

02:38 - some staff

02:39 - love overtime and they will take overtime

02:41 - whenever they can other staff don't take overtime

02:44 - our top three drivers are generally

02:47 - vacancies hospital post and call offs

02:50 - this past year fmln was actually our third and

02:54 - it was vacancies hospital posts and f demolay

02:56 - and then Carlos

02:58 - fm ally of course is federal leave that they're entitled to

03:02 - if they meet certain criteria so

03:04 - we do absolutely every can't everything that we can to limit overtime of course where

03:09 - twenty four seven operation a quick example though especially with hospital posts

03:14 - are longest hospital stay at last year was

03:17 - ninety days

03:18 - that translated to three hundred and fifty five thousand dollars

03:22 - if we took all of our top ten overtime hospital stays

03:26 - two point seven million dollars

03:28 - our hospitals are one of our most vulnerable points because of course they're

03:32 - outside

03:33 - and so we do send multiple staff we can't just send one staff

03:36 - member out

03:37 - and usually it's too and depending on if it's a problematic or an inmate that.

03:42 - Needs a higher level of security we may send additional staff so.

03:47 - There's a lot of different things I'm sure we'll talk

03:49 - about our recruitment and retention efforts to to

03:52 - reduce vacancies we've done a lot of work around

03:54 - that I mean I can go into that now as well well

03:57 - our recruitment retention team

03:59 - this time last year we put out a press release where we cut our vacancy rate in half

04:03 - so we went from our highest in about September of twenty twenty two

04:07 - to about nine hundred and thirty nine hundred and

04:10 - fifty vacancies down to like four hundred and thirty

04:13 - this time last year of course last year with the closures we did a

04:16 - targeted hiring freeze on

04:19 - certain facilities that

04:20 - obviously we knew our staff would be

04:23 - moving to so that's the fiscally responsible

04:25 - thing to do we didn't fill those positions

04:27 - but as of the end of this month after the last staff have left

04:31 - rock view and quote Hannah we should be at a three percent vacancy rate

04:35 - and.

04:36 - Prob bubbly three hundred so vacancies so that's an

04:39 - average vacancy rate for us that was pre covert levels

04:42 - so we've really done I believe a lot around this this issue

04:46 - yes overtime

04:48 - is something that we are constantly.

04:51 - Talking to staff and managing we're not

04:53 - filling extra pose we don't do things like that

04:56 - we just obvi easily have to maintain

04:58 - hospital pose certainly call offs

05:00 - those are big drivers of our overtime costs

05:02 - and for example with all the big events america to fifty

05:06 - we will be asked to participate in that this year as well we have

05:10 - a drone operator so we have ten drone devices

05:12 - three operators will probably assist with those

05:15 - we often assist with

05:17 - buses

05:18 - to bass law enforcement back and forth we have.

05:22 - Our tactical specialized teams

05:24 - often will assist in those areas though outside of just our regular

05:27 - operational costs and corrections we do assist

05:30 - when needed and for those events

05:33 - and will

05:33 - will continue to do so

05:34 - there

05:35 - are certainly have an appreciation for or

05:38 - wanting to avoid mandatory overtime and I certainly have an appreciation for

05:43 - the person you know you could always turn to when you need to fill in there

05:46 - are always some like that

05:48 - and

05:48 - what is the maximum amount of hours you'll let someone work street

05:52 - sixteen

05:53 - sixteen

05:53 - okay.

05:56 - What can the general assembly do

05:58 - obviously we've done a lot of work on how we can lure.

06:02 - Young people or others.

06:04 - In the family sustaining jobs grow pa keep people here in pa and

06:08 - we have eleven thousand young people sign up

06:10 - and you're one alone

06:13 - what else can we do to help.

06:15 - In the recruitment effort

06:17 - to get more people I mean there's probably

06:20 - one of the most difficult jobs out there

06:23 - without question you know one where.

06:26 - The safety of yourself the safety of others

06:29 - your your

06:30 - your constant awareness of everything that's going on around you

06:34 - having to be on top of that.

06:35 - I

06:36 - Thought easy always find good people willing to do that and stick to it even after

06:40 - you get their foot in the door what can we do to get more people.

06:44 - Into this critical function and core function of government

06:46 - right

06:47 - excellent question because

06:49 - one of the issues that we do struggle with is thirty five

06:52 - percent of our staff leave within the first nine months

06:55 - and so we want to get people who

06:57 - are the right fit for this

06:59 - for this agency

07:01 - the good news is

07:02 - the legislation to.

07:05 - Get

07:05 - hire people under the age of twenty one

07:07 - only twenty one percent leave

07:10 - with the under twenty one group

07:11 - so that has been hugely beneficial for us

07:14 - have we seen more retention with those folks

07:16 - bf hurts that we can put into staff wellness

07:19 - are going to be critical because that will

07:21 - hopefully translate into retention

07:23 - that's

07:24 - now that we are lowering our

07:26 - our

07:26 - our our vacancy rate

07:28 - now we really have to make a concerted effort to focus on retention

07:32 - and so we hired a

07:34 - staff wellness coordinator

07:36 - and we do do wellness summits were doing a lot of events we they did

07:41 - approximately two hundred and fifty wellness events across the department

07:44 - those are the things that I think are really key and important

07:48 - to sustain a workforce that

07:51 - wants to stay in our department

07:52 - we are now after the closures have

07:56 - the dust has settled from the closures

07:59 - we have over half of our facilities will be

08:01 - under at three percent or under a vacancy rate

08:04 - which is a normal vacancy rate for us so that's a good thing we'll be in a good

08:08 - position to where we can now look at okay

08:11 - let's

08:11 - let's invest in our retention efforts

08:14 - and make sure that we are

08:16 - selecting people that we no our

08:18 - mission based hiring not just filling a vacancy

08:21 - we need a body and of course we'll fill it fill it

08:24 - but let's get people who

08:26 - do for the mission of the department

08:27 - are a good fit for us and we were moving towards that mission based hiring already

08:32 - okay.

08:34 - Just going back briefly with that specific instance of the individual who'd work

08:37 - twenty eight hours of overtime were you aware of that.

08:41 - Yeah I'd be interested in when it was what the circumstances was I was not aware

08:46 - of any

08:47 - anyone aware of that

08:48 - specific circumstance you know admit met the local institution they might be aware of

08:52 - it because they have equalization of overtime that has to be done

08:55 - through the collective bargaining agreement but

08:57 - the central office we will not be aware.

09:00 - And.

09:01 - I mean I I think given everything that we've talked about

09:04 - and sometimes necessity or having people you can turn to

09:07 - would it

09:08 - seem very odd to have someone with that many though.

09:12 - Again I'd have to look at the totality of the circumstances

09:15 - and you guys evaluate that and yeah if you give us

09:18 - give us

09:18 - the name and the individuals we can certainly look into it

09:21 - do you.

09:22 - Was it in two thousand and twenty five.

09:24 - Earths

09:25 - okay

09:26 - and.

09:28 - Do you guys have a general

09:30 - I don't want to call it a policy supposed to

09:32 - go on what a healthy number of overtime hours on average should be

09:36 - for seo before you may have concerns.

09:39 - You meet in a in a year.

09:43 - Yeah average.

09:44 - Now or or

09:46 - do you measure that in any time frame.

09:48 - Well we certainly did during covert

09:51 - we saw people it

09:52 - but of course that was just a different circumstance.

09:55 - For average

09:57 - like I said

09:58 - like Chris said we have

09:59 - collective bargaining agreements we have rules that

10:02 - work

10:02 - overtime every single day

10:04 - so

10:05 - Basically those rules kind of are in place to protect

10:08 - the very things that you're talking about

10:11 - we do also expect individuals to

10:14 - monitor their own bodies and their schedules and

10:17 - when they shouldn't be signing up for overtime

10:19 - or they should cancel over time and many do

10:22 - when they're like yeah I'm too tired or I

10:25 - I have something else going on

10:27 - and that's acceptable as well

10:29 - so we do put a burden on the employee to obviously

10:33 - evaluate their own wellness as to whether

10:36 - or not they're signing up for overtime

10:38 - everybody you can find out about specific this specific case because obviously

10:41 - the team at all obviously monitors these things

10:44 - this one really stood out

10:45 - seems very hardly unusual but

10:47 - okay thank you

10:48 - and

10:49 - after the closure of sci rock view

10:52 - and

10:52 - had a boot camp there'll be approximately six thousand open beds across all se ours

10:58 - and.

11:00 - The question is why is the commonwealth continuing

11:02 - to

11:02 - Remain eating institutional capacity at existing levels and has the department

11:07 - assessed whether additional institution closures are forthcoming.

11:10 - So I will say capacity can be deceiving to the average person we're going to be

11:16 - around an eighty six percent capacity.

11:19 - When the closures are finished.

11:22 - That doesn't mean we have that many beds for everyone to go into for example we have

11:26 - specialized units that only certain individuals can be housed in those

11:30 - those beds we can't just put a random individual

11:33 - in a therapeutic community bad if they don't

11:35 - have a substance use issue those types of things

11:37 - we also have beds that go offline because we have an aging facilities

11:42 - and so for me and for our team we really what

11:45 - we need the dust to settle after these closures

11:49 - and.

11:50 - When we look at

11:52 - actual general population beds those are the usable beds

11:56 - we have people that have single cell status that's another factor there's

11:59 - all kinds of factors that go into

12:01 - who can occupy beds

12:03 - but when we look at that the number is not six thousand

12:06 - okay

12:07 - but we also we've had heating issues water issues

12:11 - we have circumstances where if there is some kind

12:14 - of an issue let's say on a housing unit with eat

12:17 - and it's going to be a long term issue we may need to

12:19 - relocate those

12:20 - individuals to another housing unit

12:22 - so those are are the things that we have to kind of

12:25 - bake into those numbers to be prepared we would never

12:29 - want to fill absolutely every bed we need a cushion

12:32 - to be able to manage on a daily on a daily with our population

12:37 - so

12:38 - Do I believe at the very moment that we are in a position to close more facilities now

12:43 - is that your question.

12:45 - If the other parties why are we still funding them it

12:48 - seems

12:48 - to show capacity at existing levels given

12:51 - the.

12:53 - Closure.

12:54 - That I've been

12:55 - in the works and the one that already have her.

12:58 - Here.

12:59 - I'm sorry what's the last part with the movement towards

13:01 - the closures that you're engaged in why does this budget

13:04 - have the remaining institutional capacity funded at the same existing level.

13:11 - I figured I could speak to that and if you're if you're

13:12 - looking at the overall request and the cost to carry

13:16 - with that

13:16 - what you're seeing is.

13:19 - Showing the cost to carry of one hundred and

13:21 - ninety five million dollars total from from are.

13:24 - In the governor's budget

13:25 - but we

13:26 - there is a saving showing there

13:28 - and then that savings

13:30 - your shoes show in sixty four million dollars in personnel

13:33 - that were going to be able to reduce those are positions in that regional area

13:37 - that normally if we were going to continue to operate raw for you and quintana

13:40 - we would we would have to fill those positions so you're seeing that reduction

13:44 - and then you're also seeing about twenty seven

13:46 - point six million dollars in operating costs for

13:49 - rock view and quaint Hannah that'll be reduced in that budget

13:52 - and then we also

13:53 - had the closure of the two bcc so

13:56 - technically a would have been one hundred and ninety five million dollars

13:59 - you're seeing a reduction of one hundred and

14:01 - one point nine million dollars from that closure

14:03 - which then brings your cost of carry down to ninety three million dollars

14:07 - for the sci fund only

14:09 - now the other funds

14:11 - for education and

14:12 - parole and for

14:13 - medical.

14:15 - Those aren't coming down because a lot of those are more tidy than a population in

14:18 - some of our se our expenses are tied to population

14:21 - like psychology staff work off of ratio

14:25 - and some of those other positions where we have to

14:27 - continue to provide their services at a certain level

14:30 - so ultimately a lot of that sixty four million personnel

14:33 - correctional officers food

14:34 - food service workers

14:36 - that we won't need

14:37 - the other facilities

14:38 - as well as some of the maintenance department but there

14:41 - is still some operations that benner has to maintain

14:43 - the rock for you did

14:44 - the forestry camp

14:46 - the spc.

14:48 - The the foreign program those are some of

14:49 - the things we have to continue to operate so.

14:53 - That

14:53 - it really brings it down to that and when

14:55 - you see the one hundred and forty two million

14:57 - that your costs to carry as I mentioned

15:00 - with a ninety three million

15:01 - and then the additional funding to have their normal cost of carry

15:05 - plus we have ten millions of slur funds that we lost from last year

15:08 - we had ten million slur funding

15:10 - that's going away so that there's

15:12 - ten million added to compensate for that loss

15:15 - so

15:15 - You're talking about the cost of carry and we also talk about.

15:18 - Those savings that are being touted I think the numbers

15:20 - have been thrown around about one hundred million dollars.

15:23 - If you did not have that quote unquote

15:25 - savings are you saying that you would have been here at

15:27 - the cost of kerry would have been much greater correct

15:29 - be one hundred and ninety for the city you're asking to work quarter billion dollar

15:32 - increase this year it would have been one

15:33 - hundred and ninety five million dollars yes sir.

15:38 - For the sci

15:40 - there are about.

15:41 - Two hundred and fifty million.

15:43 - Correct

15:44 - yes

15:45 - it

15:45 - Must be that

15:46 - which will be used at a historic increase.

15:48 - It would be a large increase yes.

15:51 - But the four percent is pretty typical across the line.

15:54 - From what we're what we're looking at now

15:57 - so what you're seeing is the cost to carry actually with the closures

16:00 - you're seeing

16:01 - first of all we have an eighty five million dollars

16:03 - eighty five point seven million dollars for pay increases

16:06 - sixty million of that is just the

16:08 - is the correctional staff the correctional officers in there our bargain year

16:12 - the other twenty five million in that person that salary increase

16:15 - all other bargaining units and management

16:17 - and then

16:18 - then the other

16:19 - increase would be

16:20 - the food contract food contract has increased

16:23 - over the years we all know what we're looking at we're we're talking about our food

16:26 - we've

16:27 - up to eighty six million dollars it's projected

16:29 - there's another five million dollars we'll need to continue to feed our inmates

16:33 - in our staff

16:35 - and then really a modest amount of increase in

16:37 - operating for utilities two point three million

16:40 - those numbers come up

16:41 - and then add the slurp that's one hundred and three million as the total.

16:46 - For that Sci-Fi.

16:48 - In that costs to carry.

16:57 - Which is

16:57 - when the normal at roughly that four point four percent.

17:02 - I think it's what's difficult here to understand

17:05 - as with was seeing closures and obviously I think

17:07 - there are still inmates at rock view.

17:09 - Yeah

17:10 - is it now fish are these

17:11 - is that officially done

17:12 - now we still have staff there the inmate that all the inmates were transferred from

17:16 - beneath rock view and quick end of this month is just maintenance staff there

17:20 - know our last wave of offs users will transfer Friday will be their last day

17:25 - okay

17:25 - facilities do you have a projection as to

17:27 - when it'll officially be turned over to bgs.

17:31 - Not officially I mean we still have to go through

17:33 - the surplus process our staff will we're doing

17:36 - inventories and tours so that a lot of the

17:38 - items can be reallocated to other facilities.

17:42 - Security equipment medical equipment food service equipment all of that and then of

17:47 - course we'll have to go through the surplus process

17:49 - for anything that the other facilities or anyone else in the department doesn't want

17:53 - I mean that that's going to take a few minefields

17:56 - easily

17:56 - okay

17:57 - I'm going to I'll come back to you guys a little bit later we're going to move on to

18:00 - the standing committee chairs and members

18:01 - dating committee chairs about ten minutes apiece

18:04 - and members will have five minutes apiece

18:06 - or something.

18:09 - We're going to start off

18:11 - with standing committee chair sen

18:13 - Lisa baker followed by senator remanded capital Eddie

18:16 - thank you mister chairman

18:18 - good morning thank you

18:19 - I appreciated hearing your explanation of

18:23 - the six thousand beds across the system

18:26 - and I guess the the question is you mentioned

18:29 - no plan

18:30 - for any additional closures this year

18:33 - or is that something you're considering

18:36 - and

18:37 - potentially as a result of

18:39 - this

18:40 - number

18:41 - now

18:41 - it's not something we're considering so I'm

18:44 - looking at that and obviously your number as as senator Martin

18:50 - went through your medical

18:53 - contract is up for

18:55 - renewal I your

18:57 - proposed medical care appropriation is

19:01 - of

19:01 - Forty million dollar ten per cent

19:04 - increase and I found it curious in your.

19:08 - Materials

19:09 - that number stays flat

19:12 - over the succeeding years into

19:15 - and

19:16 - twenty twenty seven twenty twenty eight and twenty twenty nine.

19:20 - Yet you're asking for a ten minute ten percent increase this year

19:23 - that isn't a realistic out your number would you agree with me on that.

19:29 - I'm sorry you repeat the question I'm looking at your general fund I'm looking at

19:34 - your medical care this year you're projecting a ten

19:37 - percent increase up to

19:39 - four hundred and forty eight

19:41 - for thirty two and that number continues out

19:45 - through

19:46 - twenty thirty

19:47 - twenty thirty one

19:48 - that's not a realistic number

19:51 - with the understanding this year you're asking for ten percent

19:54 - why such a low project and in the budget

19:57 - in the succeeding years

19:59 - in the future years.

20:01 - Well

20:01 - in regards to that.

20:04 - We're looking at a flat budget going forward

20:06 - mostly because the anticipated costs with a bargaining agreements

20:10 - at this point those run now so

20:12 - that something's in your medical care

20:14 - in our current fund I can speak to that number what you're looking at is the increase

20:19 - and you have the medical rfp is is one of the things that's up

20:23 - potentially that

20:24 - at a moment where when the bids come back we have the market bear

20:27 - and medical cpr usually runs about seven percent increase year over year

20:31 - medical contract right now a

20:33 - little less than one hundred million dollars.

20:35 - The other increase we're seeing is in er

20:38 - mit met him medicated assisted therapy

20:41 - with that we are seeing a big increase in those numbers.

20:44 - Last year we had about eighteen hundred individuals on mit

20:48 - there's over five thousand individuals on at this point in time

20:51 - that are being treated with mit and another four thousand

20:54 - that are on the wait list see the addiction specialist

20:57 - so that is our biggest increase year over year

21:00 - is

21:00 - Is r m a t expense within the medical fund

21:03 - roughly total far masud echols

21:05 - is almost at one hundred million dollars

21:08 - and

21:09 - roughly twenty five percent of that is his m a t so you can see the growth

21:13 - in the medical fund from that aspect the status

21:15 - of this contract I understand the rf I went out

21:19 - in the fall

21:20 - with the bids were expected when when will you know

21:23 - what that contract kt is and what the real number of that contract.

21:27 - Because obviously we're

21:29 - meeting with you now

21:31 - you can't really say without knowing

21:33 - specifically what's in that contract which your time frame

21:37 - will you be able to report back to this committee

21:40 - to let them know whether that is a real number

21:43 - but the the

21:44 - the that rfp is basically had to be

21:47 - there were some administrative issues

21:49 - it had has to be reissued again.

21:52 - It'll be reissued here probably in the next few weeks

21:54 - and then they'll give a time frame a short time frame for responses

21:58 - mostly due to cost

22:00 - and then there'll be able to submit their costs metals once that's complete

22:04 - and then will

22:05 - the evaluation period has to come in

22:07 - so we're probably looking at I'd say probably about three months out

22:10 - before we can identify a

22:12 - prospective vendor

22:13 - and then you have to go through negotiations so I'm

22:15 - sorry that's probably not the time frame you're asking for

22:17 - now but that is the procurement process

22:19 - so your your

22:21 - is this a fee for service

22:24 - approach or do you the capital rate

22:27 - for the medical provider as party here r f I

22:30 - it is based on the cost on inmate population so they have to show the different

22:34 - levels of based upon what the population be what the costs would be

22:38 - but once that said it's it's normally cap potato

22:41 - with only medical cpr that can be of have any increments that could increase it

22:45 - so the vendor would have

22:47 - some

22:48 - requirements as part of

22:50 - the rf I

22:52 - to keep the costs down to the como yes

22:54 - because of the competitive bidding and

22:56 - and cost as part of the scoring process

22:58 - what what is your average costs for 'em eighty per inmate you mentioned

23:03 - a big number what what is it average out per inmate.

23:07 - That god

23:09 - and if you don't have it you could

23:10 - yeah we'd have to get back to you on that the total the total costs right now the

23:13 - reallocated as that is thirty six point seven million dollars.

23:17 - And and I know on having visited sci way mark

23:22 - that is one of your

23:23 - facilities that you treat a lot of individuals with

23:27 - severe mental health and and other

23:30 - types of challenges.

23:32 - How much do we spend

23:34 - for individuals with mental health.

23:37 - Drugs gs and and I

23:39 - looked at the numbers

23:40 - way mart seems to be a higher operating cost

23:43 - but that's largely driven by the medication

23:47 - that you use or the treatment you offer is that accurate.

23:51 - Yes and no I mean obviously we're looking at when you factor in our

23:55 - centurion contract our contracted psychiatric

23:58 - services our psychology staff treatment and.

24:02 - All of those factors over

24:03 - medications over one hundred million yes

24:06 - over one hundred million for mental health treatment

24:09 - and way mark

24:10 - is just one of our facade pilates we have thirteen facilities that handle

24:14 - seriously mentally ill individuals and otherwise

24:17 - we have fourteen thousand five hundred inmates in our system

24:21 - who are on our mental health roster

24:22 - so there's a huge need we're met where a mental health provider

24:26 - so

24:27 - This is something that obviously is very important to us

24:30 - and we have facilities all over the department that can

24:34 - treat and address mental health challenges with our population

24:37 - if I can add two way mart also has skilled care

24:39 - and personal care beds for medical purposes

24:42 - so those beds average about six hundred and fifteen dollars a day

24:46 - or average general population is one hundred and ninety seven so

24:49 - weigh markets a little inflated because of their mission.

24:52 - They currently have a sixty skilled care bed unit as well as one hundred and twenty

24:55 - six personal care boats which gets to my next question on

24:59 - medical parole we've had the conversation for for a long time

25:04 - about you know whether we would be.

25:09 - Shifting costs in the commonwealth to

25:11 - another other entity to cover

25:13 - individuals are getting them you know I know senator langur hulk

25:17 - was hoping that you would take you yohanan

25:20 - and potentially use that as a pilot program

25:23 - for medical parole and

25:26 - is that something where are you with that and and I know you've been looking

25:30 - at that carefully

25:31 - and it's something I think if we can

25:33 - reduce the cost to your department and and and help care for people.

25:39 - Appropriately that they're not a danger to the community

25:43 - that makes sense

25:44 - correct right this is a conversation we've had

25:47 - every year right

25:48 - and you know as I said last year

25:51 - probably the easy ps he is the parole piece

25:54 - putting these people up for parole and parole will see them

25:57 - the hard piece is where to put them

25:59 - so I will say we've made a little bit of

26:02 - progress in into areas we have partnered with

26:05 - dmv a department of human services aging

26:09 - and we have like a homelessness committee because we're looking at one okay

26:13 - is there an Avenue to look at our veteran population and

26:16 - collaborate with our other sister agencies on these hard to place individuals do you

26:21 - have money in this year's budget for a

26:24 - pilot program for medical parole

26:26 - no

26:27 - No so there is no

26:28 - initiative currently in the budget well part of that

26:31 - now

26:32 - part of the challenge

26:33 - media's Evans

26:35 - we just

26:35 - held a meeting because we put out an rf AI about

26:38 - who can provide even nursing home beds to us

26:41 - because skilled care beds are a huge issue for us

26:45 - are

26:45 - they

26:45 - are people

26:46 - can't even get personal care they don't want

26:49 - sometimes people with canes or walkers and of

26:51 - course they don't want into visuals who have

26:54 - committed violent crimes

26:55 - and so we just had a meeting you can go ahead and share about the meeting would just

26:59 - add with our sister agencies to really look at

27:02 - what is kind of

27:03 - gap in my concern the lack of community great ass city

27:07 - knowing when someone leaves Laurel highlands you have a difficult time

27:12 - even places ing them anywhere in the community yes

27:15 - it.

27:16 - Is very difficult

27:17 - and we learned last week

27:19 - not really a matter of lack of capacity it's Marcel

27:23 - the stigma that comes with our individuals

27:26 - we have social workers and every one of our facilities and they

27:30 - sometimes make over two hundred phone calls

27:33 - to

27:34 - Skilled nursing home

27:35 - facilities

27:36 - trying to find placement only to be

27:39 - told no usually as soon as they say I'm calling from the department of corrections

27:43 - so we met last week and dhs was at the table department of health

27:48 - and

27:49 - you know we had an open conversation about

27:51 - you know our next steps what what can we do to solve this issue

27:56 - and so the results of that meeting was we are creating a an inter agency work group

28:02 - to hopefully come up with proposals that will land us near good enough

28:06 - if a pilot initiative becomes part of the request

28:10 - certainly the

28:11 - committee would be interested in

28:13 - in hearing that and.

28:15 - I know that you have in the past use some emergency procurement contracts.

28:21 - How many do you have currently

28:23 - and how much are those emergency

28:26 - procurement contracts listed at.

28:29 - When we utilize the emergency jobs program.

28:32 - The total junk expenditure hers roughly about

28:34 - twelve twenty million dollars in a given year.

28:37 - Twenty million

28:38 - because I know a couple of years ago

28:40 - there was an emergency contract for five million dollars or

28:44 - people with haemophilia that served

28:46 - only seven

28:47 - inmates who had that so I was

28:49 - just curious so

28:50 - a

28:51 - Twenty million dollar.

28:53 - Those are for construction now you're speaking

28:54 - directly to the hemophilia cant

28:56 - contract that is under our thirty three forty b program

28:59 - will start with the western him haemophiliac society

29:02 - so yes it's very expensive medication

29:05 - only a few individuals could quickly cost

29:07 - three four or five million dollars can you provide to the committee how many

29:11 - emergency procurement current contre facts you have

29:15 - related across the lines so that

29:17 - we can evaluate that should.

29:20 - See if we can do that center

29:21 - thank you very much.

29:24 - Just

29:24 - point of rejection you'd mentioned that your medical costs are going up

29:27 - an average of seven percent annually every year

29:30 - well that's a medical op I normally looked at when we're looking at procurement of

29:34 - our operating costs with our medical contracts so

29:37 - it just begs the question.

29:39 - Why are you listed in the out years

29:42 - as that being level

29:43 - every single year.

29:45 - As I mentioned earlier.

29:47 - That medical rp is unknown so we won't know what those escalating costs will be

29:51 - until we get the bids received

29:53 - this fall

29:54 - and the other ones will be the the medical costs with personnel

29:58 - is our

29:59 - collective bargaining agreements those

30:00 - I understand those are up for negotiations

30:02 - so we don't know those costs for

30:04 - those

30:04 - perspective bargaining units are your your comment about a seven

30:08 - increase is only because of the current contract

30:10 - current contract for medical yes medical services yes sir.

30:16 - And you're saying the current contract went up by seven percent every year.

30:20 - That's the average of a medical cpr

30:22 - okay

30:23 - so.

30:24 - If you're using averages and talking about op I

30:27 - how come we are looking at

30:29 - a flat funded throughout.

30:32 - Every planning year

30:33 - because I don't have a base line

30:35 - so I don't know where it's going to be once they wouldn't once we received the bits

30:38 - it might be one hundred million might be one hundred and fifty million

30:41 - might be one hundred and thirty million it all depends on

30:43 - the market will bear the brunt of the market will bear that

30:46 - cost to us once we get the aura of peace.

30:49 - I think a couple of years ago and we talked about the same exact issue and planning

30:52 - years I think I asked the secretary

30:54 - are gonna get away with being flat funded next year because

30:57 - of the heavy with zeros for the next four years in a row

31:00 - and what's problematic is even

31:02 - with numbers that were in last year

31:05 - and even despite the closures what you predicted the costs were going to be for this

31:09 - year is actually one over one hundred and twenty million more.

31:13 - Than than what we're what we're laying out and that's what the closures

31:17 - and savings

31:18 - so

31:19 - It's important

31:21 - as we prepare

31:22 - especially when we're faced with a five billion

31:24 - dollar structural deficit and how we prioritize things

31:28 - that these planning numbers are as close to accurate as possible

31:31 - yes I'm very well aware you guys know I've I've been in your shoes and it differ

31:35 - capacity on the juvenile level and then the adult level

31:38 - and the fact is when you're looking at out years

31:40 - and it's constitutionally required

31:42 - to that to have these here

31:44 - to to to put in that we're going to have flat funded medical

31:47 - and.

31:49 - When we can guess based on experience with historical averages are

31:53 - it just makes zero sense to me

31:55 - and I don't I'm not accusing it or maybe you guys may be the budget secretary I'm

31:58 - going to have this conversation with but we need to be more realistic and honest with

32:02 - taxpayers is that the cost that we're facing

32:04 - because as

32:05 - we were looking at cars you had to dip.

32:08 - You had a dip everyone thought with these closures and other things it showed that

32:11 - there was going to be a savings originally from the year prior budget to this year

32:15 - but instead what we're getting is that

32:17 - despite all that

32:19 - that we're going to have

32:20 - one hundred and almost fifty million dollar increase in the budget

32:23 - so.

32:24 - Hopefully you can understand that as concern

32:26 - for the people that are putting together budgets

32:28 - having make decisions on how to prioritize things so

32:31 - with that I'm going to turn it over

32:33 - sorry center capital idea know your your hanging in and around on zoom I'm going to

32:37 - turn over to you for ten minutes.

32:40 - Thank you senator Martin I appreciate at the time I will say

32:44 - I think both you and front and our baker have touched on a few other things that I

32:48 - wanted to be able to ask about and

32:51 - I think maybe I'll start with something you asked about

32:54 - about our shortage of.

32:57 - Er staffing shortage

32:58 - that is.

32:59 - As

33:00 - For the DRC with

33:02 - with accurate within

33:04 - the eyes

33:05 - and.

33:06 - You had some really good questioning there but I'm wondering is there any possibility

33:11 - or have you heard anecdotally at all

33:13 - if some of our recruitment efforts are and

33:16 - I'll say thwarted for

33:18 - lack of a better term

33:19 - by

33:20 - You know perhaps some of the efforts of our federal partners such as ice and what

33:24 - they're doing to try to recruit perhaps from the same

33:26 - field of individuals that were trying to recruit.

33:30 - I think there's always competition for folks you

33:32 - are looking for a law enforcement type positions.

33:36 - We have historically

33:39 - are obviously our benefit state government

33:42 - she disappeared

33:43 - all there she has I'm sorry I didn't know where I was like a.

33:45 - I

33:46 - Have we've we always have that level of competition

33:48 - even with county facilities sometimes we get

33:51 - folks start out in the county and then they come to us

33:54 - so I don't see that as a bigger challenge now of

33:56 - course that's something that we would keep an eye on.

34:00 - As the months and years play out but

34:03 - because we've had such success with our recruitment and retention efforts and

34:07 - being able to be down to close to

34:10 - three percent vacancy rate compared

34:12 - to other states that are still having

34:14 - extreme difficulties I think we're in a good place right now but again

34:17 - we will continue to monitor that.

34:20 - Thank you for that I

34:22 - was asking because I

34:23 - recently had the opportunity to tour.

34:26 - Phoenix which is

34:27 - just up the road from my district and actually on the way to my mom's house

34:31 - and I

34:32 - had

34:33 - a great conversation with the warden there throughout my entire time touring.

34:37 - I wanted that was one of his concerns and

34:39 - staffing shortages so just

34:41 - wanted to highlight that that is

34:43 - something that I am actively thinking about and wanting to make sure

34:46 - that we are

34:47 - we are working towards addressing and I'm glad to know

34:50 - that we have a lower rate than many other states but

34:53 - do you think that time is

34:55 - really important.

34:57 - Clouding around medical

34:59 - yes

35:00 - now I just wanted

35:01 - you are correct that we do have some facilities

35:04 - Phoenix is a challenge because

35:06 - facilities that are in.

35:09 - Urban areas.

35:11 - Oftentimes were competing with other state agencies there's a lot more job

35:14 - opportunities available as opposed to rural sites

35:17 - that don't see the turnover sometimes

35:19 - I worked at greater foods so they certainly had their challenges with

35:23 - turnover with staff so yes not all facilities are

35:27 - going to be at that three percent

35:28 - and we were we'll continue to focus our efforts we have recruitment

35:32 - staff that are specifically assigned to Phoenix for example

35:35 - and it is a facility that we monitor closely because of their

35:39 - vacancies

35:39 - so yes appreciate you bringing that up.

35:42 - Absolutely and I guess part of that maybe

35:45 - since you brought it up out of curiosity if you could talk a little bit is there any

35:49 - change in the structure of pay for our CEOs depending on where they live and the

35:54 - cost of living looks like only because

35:57 - you know in the southeast cost of living does look very different than perhaps what

36:00 - it looks like for some of our more rural

36:03 - the eyes.

36:04 - Correct we haven't done the cost of living for corrections officers

36:08 - but what I will say through their collective bargaining

36:11 - folks who come in at the base salary of a

36:13 - c o t is around forty eight thousand dollars

36:17 - and then the incentive is after you complete your one year

36:20 - on the job training

36:22 - you jump up to fifty one thousand dollars

36:24 - so through collective bargaining we're able to negotiate some of those

36:28 - salaries that get kind of baked in as an

36:30 - incentive after you complete your initial year

36:33 - but it is something that we looked at with nurses.

36:36 - The

36:37 - the regional.

36:40 - What's the word I'm looking for the regional.

36:45 - We we do Lincoln then

36:46 - incentive re regional incentives for

36:48 - pay other positions to maintenance position as a nature.

36:53 - That is really good to know thank you for that

36:56 - and now I want to pivot I think

36:58 - you know

36:59 - many people do you know me as somebody who thinks

37:01 - more on the side of criminal justice reform and and

37:04 - addressing certain issues for those who are incarcerated.

37:08 - Recently we've heard that the department of corrections as negotiating a new

37:11 - procurement con tracked for their communications

37:14 - and I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about

37:16 - what services that's going to affect and what the

37:18 - costs look like for the incarcerated individuals

37:21 - through a new contract.

37:23 - So we are very excited can't give a whole lot of

37:28 - information because of course it is still in the

37:30 - procurement process but we're very excited to.

37:34 - Anticipate the roll out of tablets to all

37:37 - every single individual in our system

37:40 - and obviously based services are included things like emails and j pay and

37:47 - phones things like that

37:49 - and as time goes on and we're able to

37:52 - talk to them about additional services we will do that

37:55 - but.

37:57 - That's something that I know are incarcerated

37:59 - population is excited about we're equally excited

38:02 - I will say other states that that

38:04 - have implemented this type of

38:06 - tablet system

38:08 - have seen lower levels of violence in their facilities

38:12 - so we really think that it could pay some dividends for us in other ways

38:15 - in addition to giving folks them immediate access

38:19 - to some of their essential services.

38:22 - Sure still both incarcerated

38:24 - rituals have to pay for

38:26 - a tablet use

38:27 - calling out to family members but how how will

38:29 - that work for them and where those costs increase.

38:35 - Everyone does as a secretary mentioned every inmate

38:37 - will get a tablet that tablet is free to them

38:39 - and they can if they want to use the phone

38:42 - the phone is the rate is that a point for two cents

38:45 - lower the fcc rate of roughly six cents.

38:49 - They can do messaging there is a cost for that

38:52 - as there is now for their message aging.

38:54 - They can use video visitation through their phones

38:57 - but we will that will have a cost but we're still going to keep our infrastructure

39:01 - for our free video visitation on the housing units

39:04 - if they would like to use those

39:06 - they can download

39:07 - download music

39:08 - books

39:09 - and then all their electronic

39:11 - funds transfer

39:12 - games that's up to them if they'd like to purchase it

39:16 - but there will be a cost to it

39:17 - and then our mail will come the male will come for free

39:20 - they won't have to pay for that digitally

39:23 - the mail will come to them

39:24 - and then we will no longer have to scan mill

39:27 - like we do

39:28 - in Florida

39:29 - in our contract we've had before so there is a cost savings on that.

39:34 - Wonderful so it sounds like the tablet is

39:36 - certainly a little bit more of a.

39:40 - Obviously not free Internet rain.

39:43 - On it but it's

39:44 - more of an Internet kind of based platform

39:47 - written text platform.

39:49 - For free

39:49 - with the additional options of being able to

39:52 - pay for

39:54 - video calls outside of the free video calls

39:56 - that you all offer as well I'll politely other

39:59 - other type of communications.

40:02 - Correct.

40:05 - Wonderful

40:06 - so out of it just out of curiosity them when we are talking about

40:10 - the costs for individuals to

40:12 - connect with their families and I'm speaking in

40:15 - terms of either video or phone calls

40:18 - how much do you from those those

40:21 - those prices

40:22 - the dlc get put back.

40:25 - Yearly budget

40:26 - to you now yeah we get no commissions on phone calls.

40:30 - No commissions

40:31 - okay so if we were to

40:33 - find a way to be able to provide free phone calls for our incarcerated individuals it

40:38 - would not have an impact on your budget but for

40:41 - paying that that small fee of of those calls.

40:45 - I will say any amount of free phone calls is a concern

40:49 - for us a lot of people don't understand I think the.

40:53 - Some violence that actually occurs around phone calls I

40:56 - see senator just

40:57 - shaking his

40:58 - head and

40:59 - you know people compete for phone time and try to control phones.

41:04 - If we would there's

41:05 - Europe there would be a cost obviously and it would be in the millions depending on

41:09 - whether we went up ice sixty minutes ninety minutes it could be

41:13 - anywhere from thirty five million

41:15 - up to maybe eighty seven million depending on

41:17 - what that costs look like for free calls so

41:20 - it's not a small amount

41:22 - but there also are some security concerns around

41:25 - for the phone calls especially

41:28 - with our

41:28 - our population so

41:30 - there would be some concerns.

41:33 - Another state to.

41:34 - The other states

41:35 - many other states I shouldn't say many some of the states that have done it

41:39 - have just found that it's not sustainable.

41:41 - Cost wise.

41:44 - Because I have seen some some states in the northeast that have done that

41:47 - something I've been looking into because we do know

41:50 - the morning course rated individual can stay in contact

41:52 - with positive influences and family members in their life

41:55 - and help you know whether it's their children a partner.

41:59 - Mom that whomever it might be

42:01 - that that can be really helpful in.

42:04 - Behavior and attitude and and outcomes that can come from that individual in terms of

42:09 - their stay in and our correctional institutions absolutely

42:14 - to to kind of keep going along that that thought process and

42:18 - wondering if you can talk a little bit about.

42:23 - How many

42:24 - how how many of our family visits or

42:28 - connections are happening in

42:29 - in person versus televised since that is something that we are now

42:32 - doing a lot of facilitating of

42:34 - right you probably saw our press release where we.

42:38 - Went over a million combined visits between in person and

42:42 - video visits

42:44 - obviously our video visitation is highly popular far more than in person

42:49 - and I'm sure you can understand that because of just ledge logistics and cost

42:53 - I think approximately

42:55 - one hundred thousand

42:56 - in-person visits and then the rest are

42:59 - and.

43:00 - Video visits

43:02 - but it's.

43:03 - As

43:04 - Deputy aman said they will continue to be able to get

43:06 - video visits for free.

43:08 - I think some of the challenges that we have with

43:11 - in-person visitation because again we support that

43:15 - I I was just

43:16 - touring se I'm all Hanoi and they confirmed that

43:19 - our Vic our visit visit visit visiting rooms

43:23 - and

43:24 - aren't for full

43:24 - people cancel at the last minute sometimes they don't show we actually have

43:29 - around a forty two percent.

43:32 - Cancellation a visit or no show for in-person

43:35 - it's half that for video visits

43:37 - because again I think it's the convenience of being able to

43:41 - do the visit from your phone in your car wherever you're at

43:44 - and so while we certainly encourage in-person visits and there are people that

43:48 - just

43:49 - historically family members that want to make that

43:52 - trip no matter how far it is or how close it is

43:55 - but the folks who wouldn't normally get those opportunities are absolutely

44:00 - taking advantage of our video visitation and

44:02 - we're happy to be able to provide that to them.

44:05 - Well thank you secretary Harry I see the light is flashing in front of you so I will

44:09 - go ahead Neil thank you mr chairman thank you.

44:13 - I haven't really been paying attention.

44:15 - Sorry.

44:17 - Oh.

44:18 - Okay

44:19 - then you can alert.

44:22 - Just

44:23 - as a commercial without details for obvious reasons but all these methods of

44:27 - communication tools that inmates have access to

44:30 - are

44:30 - completely under secure absolutely monitoring and all that

44:35 - and hearing all this stuff there's security things in place.

44:39 - Hence

44:40 - when we talk about anything being free.

44:42 - People don't see what's going on behind the curtain to ensure the safety of victims

44:46 - and other members of the community

44:48 - and that won't change with tablets it's the same thing.

44:52 - Moving on now

44:54 - to remembers will start off with center Phillips hill followed by senator carney.

44:59 - Thank you mr chairman madam secretary thank you to you and your team for being here

45:03 - today and as you have heard in your conversations there are major financial issues

45:08 - ahead

45:09 - when a dig a little further into the finances

45:12 - of your department

45:13 - one of the things that we routinely see is agencies asking to hold onto money

45:19 - that was appropriated in prior fiscal years

45:22 - processes commonly referred to as

45:25 - a waiver

45:26 - did your department request a waiver

45:29 - to hold on to prior year money in the most recent fiscal year.

45:34 - Yeah so

45:35 - currently the three major funds that have a wireless how much.

45:40 - I'm sorry can you tell us how much if you've asked for.

45:43 - Three funds how much

45:45 - of the sci find us at six point seven million dollars.

45:50 - The medical fund is thirty two point seven

45:52 - and field supervision

45:54 - six point six.

45:58 - How did your department come to have that kind

46:01 - of money left over at the end of the fiscal year

46:05 - primarily for the medical fund was anticipation of as I mentioned earlier the new rfp

46:10 - that was in solicitation previously

46:12 - as well as

46:14 - with our three forty b savings at times that has been vault full

46:17 - on on what the savings is there's a lot of pressure from pharmaceutical companies

46:21 - to try to limit three forty b entities from.

46:24 - Simply saving this money

46:26 - but our savings

46:27 - was over the anticipated amount we save roughly thirty nine million dollars

46:31 - in three forty be

46:32 - expected for this year and thirty million last year so it's been increasing

46:36 - so that's why you're seeing the medical fun.

46:39 - Being

46:39 - the wave or being that much and that our direction from gb o

46:42 - was to use that in anticipation if our mit would be

46:46 - continue to grow

46:47 - as well as the of the medical

46:49 - I'm glad you referenced that because in your

46:52 - exchange with the gentle lady from lucerne county

46:55 - and

46:56 - you indicate hated that you re issued

46:59 - the health care contract what's going on there why is there a delay.

47:05 - The delay was an under in regards to the custom metal forms

47:09 - of administrative issue

47:11 - of the dgs and

47:13 - made the decision to

47:14 - reissue the rfp here in the next few weeks and then

47:17 - have the opportunity for those

47:18 - prospective vendors to rebid

47:20 - focusing on the issue of the cost of metal and some other issues

47:24 - is that something that we will have in a

47:27 - time frame that will allow us to factor that into

47:30 - our budget process

47:32 - as I mentioned previously it's

47:33 - it's not going to come

47:35 - to fruition probably release that at a minimum

47:37 - three months that we might have an understanding

47:39 - if not six months for the total contract

47:42 - to be

47:43 - reissued to be

47:45 - re renewed

47:46 - with a

47:46 - new perspective vendor or the current vendor

47:49 - the current contract runs this

47:50 - currently to August of this year.

47:53 - Very good

47:54 - thank you

47:55 - for that clarification

47:57 - and

47:57 - I need to ask this because we are really trying to look throughout those couch

48:03 - cushions as you have probably heard many of us say

48:06 - I'm trying to keep our costs down do you expect to have

48:09 - any extra funding left over after the current fiscal year.

48:13 - No no

48:14 - we we do not and part of that as I mentioned

48:17 - when gb oh did cut us roughly ten million dollars from our original request

48:22 - in the Sci-Fi

48:24 - but we don't

48:25 - six point six in the field supervision

48:27 - some of that is.

48:29 - Funding to

48:30 - to win the

48:31 - issue the body cameras in that contract so

48:34 - some of that residual was leftover for field supervision for that manner

48:37 - and already commented on the medical form.

48:40 - Very good

48:41 - and our appropriation staff they

48:43 - regularly review agency restricted accounts

48:47 - and this year not in your department but in another department notice that there was

48:51 - a fifteen million dollar revenue deposited into account

48:54 - that normally only receives about one point five

48:57 - to two million dollars each year.

49:00 - Now of course the account as noted was in another agency but such a large deposit

49:05 - really jumped out to our approach team

49:08 - and

49:08 - as we worked to gain an understanding of what happened we learned that the bank

49:13 - account that was used to collect credit card revenues was never fully set up

49:18 - and the bank had been holding the revenues that were due to the commonwealth.

49:22 - For several years

49:24 - so and.

49:26 - We raise this

49:27 - at an earlier budget hearing but since then

49:30 - have you confirmed with each of your program staff

49:33 - that the banks you use to collect revenue are correct

49:38 - and timely in sending that rare ave to the commonwealth

49:42 - were not a revenue generating agency center so that doesn't apply for us

49:46 - you do not collect any revenue in any way from any entity know.

49:51 - Okay

49:52 - very good.

49:54 - Briefly you touch on body cameras

49:58 - and we're hearing concerns about the rates of prison violence.

50:03 - Your written testimony indicated high rates historically

50:07 - if the general assembly were to authorize corrections

50:11 - officers to utilize body worn cameras is that something

50:13 - the department would be interested in implementing

50:17 - and do you anticipate

50:19 - that it would have an impact on violence rates

50:22 - absolutely

50:24 - we've been supportive of body cameras on the

50:27 - corrections officer side

50:28 - I mean the good news for us is that we can started on the field side and

50:32 - we're close to the roll out right now and iron out that

50:35 - and

50:36 - developed the policy and really learn from any

50:38 - issues that we have before we could do that

50:41 - I will tell you

50:42 - full transparency the union is not supportive

50:45 - but that would be something that we would continue

50:48 - to work with them as the parole staff have done

50:50 - with sharing the policy and

50:52 - really doing a nice job with messaging what I also will tell you you is

50:56 - I've had lots of conversations with other states as you mentioned who have

51:00 - rolled out body cameras

51:01 - and they have seen a decrease in serious incidents uses of force

51:06 - and really I think once the staff saw the value and benefit because these cameras

51:11 - cover areas that may not normally be viewed

51:14 - from

51:15 - fixed cameras in hallway or what have you

51:17 - they have seen those decreases so I think that would be a benefit

51:21 - one thing to know that if we did look and it

51:23 - would probably be about a five point six million

51:26 - dollar

51:27 - project on the

51:29 - institutional side because of course we're dealing with a lot more staff and then

51:34 - the field side it's about to me alien

51:36 - so it would be significantly higher but yes we've we've looked at it we've

51:41 - that's something that

51:42 - I've talked to people that's probably

51:45 - at some point where we will go

51:46 - but again right now we're we are focused on getting the

51:50 - roll out on the parole side which will occur this year

51:53 - and hopefully this as soon as this spring we'll

51:55 - be rolling out the body cameras on the parole side

51:57 - and then able to potentially look to that in the

52:00 - future so I appreciate you bringing that up because it

52:02 - is absolutely something that we are considering

52:05 - thank you madam secretary thank you mr chairman.

52:09 - Thank you senator Phillips hill senator carney followed by senator Dutch.

52:15 - Thank you

52:16 - madam chairman think about them

52:17 - secretary thank you for being here and

52:19 - we're euro.

52:21 - Know you have a very difficult job to do

52:23 - and

52:25 - I've visited several of the

52:26 - siestas and

52:28 - to

52:29 - Have a real kind of feel for

52:31 - how it works I wonder if you could talk real briefly about.

52:35 - There are good policies and efforts around addiction treatment for

52:39 - for for inmates

52:40 - so as deputy Altman talked about

52:43 - well let me back up

52:44 - so we have about fifty seven percent of our population has a substance use history

52:49 - that's pretty high it's actually higher with our incarcerated women

52:53 - and but addiction treatment is something we have been offering for years and years I

52:56 - actually started as a drug and alcohol treatment specialist

52:59 - that's how I came into the department

53:01 - we do a lot around substance use treatment

53:04 - we have outpatient treatment we have what's called a therapeutic community

53:07 - which is essentially like a rehab inside of a prison

53:11 - you may have seen them if you toured one of our facilities.

53:15 - The state drug treatment program through Jr I too is another Avenue where they

53:19 - do a piece on the inside of treatment then they leave and do treatment so

53:23 - it is something that is very important to us our folks in treatment services

53:28 - do a really nice job

53:30 - ensuring that we have enough beds we've

53:32 - expanded beds because of course with the closure

53:35 - of course

53:35 - and rock view we've expanded therapeutic community beds at other sites

53:39 - and so that the treatment peace is something that

53:42 - we've been doing for years and we continue to

53:44 - really look at the data to drive the type of

53:47 - treatment we've done opioid use treatments.

53:51 - Were actually looking even to do drug dealers groups or drugs

53:55 - today dealing

53:56 - and treatment groups so it's something that we're always looking to expand.

54:00 - When someone first comes into the system how do you determine.

54:05 - Where they stand relative to they are screened

54:07 - every individual for same thing with mental health screenings

54:11 - if we do a multitude of screenings having worked at camp hill that was kind of

54:15 - that's what we did in the classification process so every individual is screened

54:19 - and then based on the tool that we use the risk and needs assessment tool

54:23 - it will determine what type of programming and needs that

54:27 - that particular individual will have so we know rate for

54:29 - classification

54:30 - and then deputy Altman did talk about

54:33 - medication-assisted treatment which

54:35 - we are also doing the counties are doing it

54:37 - more and more counties and county inmates come to us of course we

54:41 - continue that care and we're continuing to expand our mit a

54:45 - two

54:46 - and I appreciate that and I do

54:49 - think the

54:49 - two have been great advances that we've seen over the last

54:52 - several years the last

54:52 - ten years in terms of.

54:55 - How those things work

54:56 - and

54:57 - I have a

54:57 - I had a constituent who got taken in

54:59 - to

55:00 - Buy ice in

55:02 - upper darby.

55:03 - Who was.

55:05 - Had

55:05 - addiction issues

55:07 - and he was

55:08 - detained

55:09 - and then not given any treatment at all for about a twenty four hour period.

55:14 - At which point he was going through withdraw was

55:16 - given narcan which is the exact opposite of what.

55:20 - Should so much do and he died within twelve hours of that.

55:24 - Current

55:24 - and I know that this was a this is a

55:26 - this was the

55:27 - federal detention center in

55:29 - Philadelphia that

55:30 - not

55:31 - one of your.

55:33 - But

55:34 - it brings you to the question is of how much interaction if any do you have

55:39 - with the federal.

55:41 - Programs that are located within Pennsylvania

55:43 - I mean obviously we're seeing

55:44 - issues about the amount

55:46 - of attention to the conditions that

55:48 - motion and valley

55:49 - facility

55:50 - with us there we have

55:52 - homeland security just purchased two.

55:55 - Giant warehouses and in Pennsylvania we're

55:58 - obviously very concerned about that

56:00 - and.

56:01 - Did they play any role in any of those kinds of.

56:05 - In anything

56:06 - with the

56:07 - right not necessarily but I will tell you that

56:10 - right this administration has clearly said that

56:13 - they aren't housed the people that are housed in

56:15 - the Pennsylvania department of corrections

56:17 - have a sentence they've been sentenced in Pennsylvania

56:21 - to serve Pennsylvania time those are the individuals we don't house

56:25 - like

56:25 - ice detainees none of our facilities we we don't interact in that way.

56:30 - The only interaction that we really have

56:32 - is if an individual does have a detain or

56:35 - we let them ice know and that they are available if they choose to.

56:41 - Pick them up.

56:44 - Okay

56:45 - and that was

56:46 - and that's basically how we handle all detainers it could be a Philadelphia detain or

56:50 - Florida detain or what have you that's our detainer process

56:52 - real real brief who if you could just comment on the.

56:56 - I was very heartened by the

56:57 - Scandinavian unit

56:59 - called

56:59 - in

57:00 - A suicide Chester and wondering give us an update on how that's going

57:03 - yes Chester's done a great job obviously it was implemented during covert there were

57:08 - some kings with the research piece

57:09 - and we're hoping to get

57:11 - true research results sometime this summer

57:14 - abide because we saw such promise not only

57:16 - with the incarcerated population on this unit

57:19 - but also the staff

57:21 - and the wellness of staff we did choose to expand and that two three other sites

57:25 - sci fayette sci Smithfield and sci Cambridge Springs

57:29 - we wanted to look at a female site and then

57:32 - two other facilities Chester is normally been

57:35 - like a treatment facility it's a smaller population.

57:39 - Not as many higher custody level individuals

57:42 - so we really wanted to expand that too to

57:44 - facilities that did high

57:46 - have house higher custody individuals because the level fours

57:50 - and they are in the process of getting those units prepared

57:53 - and hopefully sometime this year we'll be able to

57:56 - open those units

57:57 - each of

57:58 - Cambridge Springs will have forty four beds

58:00 - Smithfield

58:01 - and

58:02 - fayette will have around thirty one beds

58:04 - but we're excited about the expansion we have new research partners

58:08 - will be looking at

58:09 - various

58:10 - things to

58:12 - measure on those units and it's been a positive

58:14 - addition for us we've seen less violence on those units

58:17 - staff are happier it's just been

58:19 - really a win-win for everyone so I appreciate you asking and certainly when those

58:23 - units

58:24 - get up and running we we certainly welcome any of you to actually tour

58:28 - in Syracuse.

58:29 - Appreciate it.

58:31 - Veggie center center dash followed by senator Haywood making sure

58:35 - the

58:36 - secretary and the.

58:39 - Doctors are in.

58:41 - The I'm a pass on my thanks for the Cambridge Springs.

58:46 - Honor guard coming out and participating and helping Sunday with the funeral of

58:51 - officer brochure from.

58:53 - Our forest

58:54 - but I really appreciate the

58:56 - cooperation there.

58:58 - Are

58:58 - a couple of years ago we were talking about the ambulance services and the

59:01 - reimbursements for them has that.

59:05 - Fixed.

59:06 - Just for you most services that should be a well path as well out of the bankruptcy

59:11 - so they are paying per contract because of the normally do thirty to sixty days

59:14 - once the invoices are duty created

59:17 - vms surface repay received payment I'm glad to

59:19 - hear that I didn't know if the people stopped

59:22 - getting into my ear because they

59:24 - it's fixed or

59:25 - because they gave.

59:29 - The

59:29 - pre-amp man you were talking about the mit and years said how many

59:32 - how many

59:33 - petitions

59:34 - participants were on it.

59:36 - Two years ago

59:37 - are given two years ago currently.

59:40 - I'm sorry it was last year center twenty twenty four

59:42 - we had eighteen hundred and sixty individuals on mit

59:47 - and now we have fifty two eighty three.

59:50 - Is one hundred and eighty four percent increase because now we're doing induction

59:54 - we were doing a maintenance program secretary kind of alluded to

59:57 - where they're coming from counties on on on medic

59:59 - 248 mit

01:00 - 00.998 therapy

01:00 - 03.858 and now we are inducing individuals

01:00 - 05.408 that are signing up for it

01:00 - 07.020 we got a lot of pressure from

01:00 - 08.178 the d o j

01:00 - 11.268 we should be offering this medication because of our high amount of.

01:00 - 13.928 Individuals with us subs use disorder

01:00 - 16.268 so this is where you're starting to see the increase

01:00 - 18.938 and it is clinically driven we have addiction knowledge is

01:00 - 21.750 on our team and they assess and evaluate who gets

01:00 - 24.038 placed on mh and how many are on the waiting list

01:00 - 26.058 proximately four thousand.

01:00 - 27.888 To.

01:00 - 29.258 Wow

01:00 - 33.734 and I will you're probably looking at the number but when I talked to my counterparts

01:00 - 35.354 those are the same kind of numbers that they're

01:00 - 37.688 seeing other states are doing the exact same thing

01:00 - 41.378 regarding mit and they're seeing some significant numbers for

01:00 - 41.888 Obama

01:00 - 44.618 one of the things that concerns me is when I'm

01:00 - 47.498 hearing from a staff that there are guys that

01:00 - 50.048 don't have substance abuse but.

01:00 - 52.270 Because their family members

01:00 - 55.210 do and the places where their parole plan are

01:00 - 57.410 they're getting put on Suboxone

01:00 - 58.910 and.

01:00 - 00.160 What

01:01 - 01.610 they're being

01:01 - 04.040 basically encouraged to get on Suboxone.

01:01 - 07.885 Is that part of what's driving this I mean we got.

01:01 - 12.491 That that's a significant number of people I mean i.

01:01 - 14.780 These guys that are coming in

01:01 - 15.850 and

01:01 - 17.860 you know I've been on those units

01:01 - 19.370 and the.

01:01 - 21.010 The treatment units and stuff

01:01 - 24.710 but there are also a lot of guys out there in gen pop that.

01:01 - 26.486 Have never had

01:01 - 28.060 experience with this stuff

01:01 - 28.600 and

01:01 - 31.550 it bothers me when I hear stories like that.

01:01 - 35.770 I'm not sure exactly what that particular case is referring to but

01:01 - 39.340 as I mentioned we have addiction knowledge is on staff I just talked about

01:01 - 43.060 fifty seven percent of our population has a substance use history

01:01 - 46.570 and that's a significant number of individuals in our system

01:01 - 49.490 our addiction knowledge is meet with individuals

01:01 - 52.660 they talk to them of course especially for folks going

01:01 - 56.440 back out into the community that reentry pieces really critical

01:01 - 59.647 especially for someone who may not have been using but knows

01:01 - 00.087 that

01:02 - 02.046 they're going back into the community where

01:02 - 04.120 there's different levels of temptations for them

01:02 - 09.260 so we had started mbt in that respect years ago.

01:02 - 11.110 I just

01:02 - 15.010 perhaps for the judiciary committee something to have a hearing about I just

01:02 - 15.490 am

01:02 - 17.030 Concerned about that

01:02 - 18.980 on the phone monitoring.

01:02 - 20.200 Our

01:02 - 21.010 how are

01:02 - 23.639 we monitoring these video calls because you and

01:02 - 26.840 I both know that these guys are very ingenious

01:02 - 28.010 and if are.

01:02 - 29.140 They can

01:02 - 30.010 Bury or

01:02 - 31.180 encode stuff

01:02 - 35.780 on video calls and communicate in ways other than just the vocal.

01:02 - 40.930 How are we in it for the institutions security how in the heck are we doing

01:02 - 42.440 doing that.

01:02 - 47.810 I will tell you unfortunately or fortunately for us some of them aren't very.

01:02 - 50.000 Savvy to

01:02 - 52.266 what they're doing on these calls doesn't take

01:02 - 54.220 long though once they start getting I mean

01:02 - 55.090 with

01:02 - 56.360 them.

01:02 - 58.420 Dunno been out in the open

01:02 - 02.296 but even when they're not we have an analytics division in our bureau of

01:03 - 04.688 investigations and intelligence that does a

01:03 - 07.540 really great job they work on the parole side

01:03 - 09.340 and they with visit

01:03 - 12.010 people maybe flashing weapons in a visit

01:03 - 12.790 or

01:03 - 16.870 Things that unfortunately but again fortunately for us us are not so covert

01:03 - 21.040 and there's a really a huge network and working with our

01:03 - 23.290 security offices the parole

01:03 - 27.280 staff our analytics division it's a big team work network

01:03 - 28.610 of.

01:03 - 29.530 Extra work though

01:03 - 30.040 I mean

01:03 - 30.520 it's

01:03 - 31.870 significant we're

01:03 - 34.300 at the cost of having those

01:03 - 38.870 isn't just going to be be in the the establishment of the tablets.

01:03 - 43.460 To effectively controls the security of the institution.

01:03 - 44.650 If.

01:03 - 47.530 You're going to have to significantly increases

01:03 - 50.428 the security staff evaluation of that I mean the the

01:03 - 53.780 amount of staff it'll be involved to take care of that

01:03 - 54.700 to

01:03 - 56.090 Prevent

01:03 - 59.750 security breaches I think it is going to be significant

01:04 - 01.630 yeah securities obviously be

01:04 - 05.020 obviously a big component but we have all of this system comes when

01:04 - 07.230 senator Martin was talking about we have

01:04 - 09.370 those systems already we're already monitoring

01:04 - 13.810 emails and phone calls and video visits it's something that's already happening

01:04 - 17.950 so I know that's that's not catching everything either by any stretch but

01:04 - 19.510 my time's up and go

01:04 - 21.920 have some stuff on a second round thanks.

01:04 - 25.640 Senator Haywood followed by senator brown damn.

01:04 - 28.370 Thank you so much.

01:04 - 31.210 It appears to me

01:04 - 34.270 that your department has

01:04 - 35.590 inherited.

01:04 - 38.420 Unbelievable challenge.

01:04 - 43.870 You have inherited a system where he's fifty seven percent

01:04 - 44.770 of the

01:04 - 45.970 population.

01:04 - 48.350 Has substance abuse

01:04 - 50.420 we just heard that.

01:04 - 55.730 He got five thousand on medical assistant treatment but you look at at nine thousand.

01:04 - 57.830 And.

01:04 - 04.400 We're clear about the older adults who have the specialized care.

01:05 - 06.200 I.

01:05 - 07.970 Or is it.

01:05 - 09.709 Does no.

01:05 - 13.540 Department of corrections that was planned twenty years ago

01:05 - 16.150 that's ready for what is happening

01:05 - 17.270 today.

01:05 - 19.360 So this makes

01:05 - 20.514 the.

01:05 - 23.770 Cost of paying for the challenge is very

01:05 - 26.390 difficult for the general assembly.

01:05 - 29.520 Which is why members was.

01:05 - 32.450 Alarmed at some of the increases.

01:05 - 36.200 Given the challenges that you face.

01:05 - 39.790 I would lights and

01:05 - 43.550 no not today but some future time.

01:05 - 45.890 Given what you have inherited

01:05 - 47.860 and who is in

01:05 - 49.730 Carson rated today.

01:05 - 55.760 What kind of system redesign we need because.

01:05 - 00.680 I don't know that we have a financial approach.

01:06 - 03.560 That can address.

01:06 - 06.440 Who is incarcerated.

01:06 - 12.350 And I say I don't know we have a financial approach to address who's incarcerated

01:06 - 16.910 because as you share the increasing cost the increasing needs.

01:06 - 18.160 We do

01:06 - 22.480 we we currently don't have a financial approach to manage that as far as I can tell

01:06 - 25.420 I'll be on the appropriations committee for several years now

01:06 - 26.960 and.

01:06 - 28.819 What did chairman

01:06 - 30.490 and others are concerned about is.

01:06 - 31.600 Very

01:06 - 33.500 very real so.

01:06 - 35.232 I don't expect for you to

01:06 - 38.170 redesign the system that we have

01:06 - 41.420 you have inherited a tremendous challenge

01:06 - 42.740 but.

01:06 - 46.510 Any innovation that you can bring to us

01:06 - 48.190 would be extremely helpful

01:06 - 50.630 that's the first thing because.

01:06 - 53.260 You know the department corrections budget

01:06 - 55.010 is much higher.

01:06 - 57.260 Than higher education.

01:06 - 59.540 Which is the path to opportunity

01:07 - 03.920 and so when we had the passive opportunity getting less resources

01:07 - 06.580 than incarceration obviously that's a big challenge

01:07 - 07.840 which you have inherited

01:07 - 09.830 which you have inherited.

01:07 - 12.200 The question I have.

01:07 - 15.260 Is related to the eleven fifteen waivers.

01:07 - 20.780 As we know that the department of human services got approved for the waivers.

01:07 - 24.850 That are intended to provide some more opportunity for folks to

01:07 - 28.460 deal with some of the challenges that we've already described.

01:07 - 31.413 So I like to know if you you or someone on your team could

01:07 - 34.870 speak to the importance of Sony's pre and post release

01:07 - 36.280 programs

01:07 - 38.770 that make it more likely that

01:07 - 41.930 incarcerated foreskin reenter

01:07 - 43.100 society

01:07 - 45.550 yeah really appreciate that question because

01:07 - 49.756 we've worked very closely and collaborating with the department of human services and

01:07 - 51.430 these investments and how health because

01:07 - 55.810 these are really investments in re entry for the exact population that you just said

01:07 - 59.080 especially those that are getting ready to be released

01:07 - 02.320 and so we've seen positive results and

01:08 - 05.684 even decreases in recidivism when we look at folks who

01:08 - 08.380 are on medication assisted treatment likes the box on

01:08 - 10.330 the box and thirty five percent

01:08 - 14.380 under decrease in recidivism so with six months to a year or so

01:08 - 16.070 we've been really.

01:08 - 20.800 Really hopeful and certainly willing to work with dhs and the general assembly

01:08 - 22.491 to get that across the finish line and deputy

01:08 - 25.490 on Lincoln share a little bit more about that.

01:08 - 27.760 Secretary pretty much edited until we get

01:08 - 28.390 that

01:08 - 30.826 available to use medical system for building

01:08 - 32.770 wow either incarcerated up to ninety days

01:08 - 36.400 focus on case management focus on those warm handoffs

01:08 - 39.310 and then any savings on that mit that we might get

01:08 - 43.420 it's really just reinvest because we know that we're going to expand these programs

01:08 - 46.120 and so yes the the suspension of of

01:08 - 47.890 of m a was a great step

01:08 - 49.930 to suspend benefits while they're incarcerated

01:08 - 52.996 but to be able to use that one while they're incarcerating those ninety days

01:08 - 54.020 get a federal match

01:08 - 54.562 either I

01:08 - 56.953 think it's really going to improve and help the recidivism

01:08 - 00.130 and and and and decrease overdose deaths in the community

01:09 - 03.083 well and as you know continuity of care in our

01:09 - 08.540 system is huge we have to like he said we have to have that warm hand off to ensure.

01:09 - 11.990 Folks have the resources that they need when they leave our system.

01:09 - 14.570 Thank you very much

01:09 - 16.850 that's all I have thank you sir.

01:09 - 17.440 Are

01:09 - 21.140 up next sen brown followed by senator because he.

01:09 - 22.570 Thank you mr chairman

01:09 - 26.360 thank you madam secretary and for everyone being here this morning.

01:09 - 27.770 You mentioned.

01:09 - 29.566 Savings

01:09 - 31.970 due to the closures

01:09 - 35.770 and reference you know personnel and operating costs

01:09 - 37.520 that were savings

01:09 - 41.690 but we aren't necessarily seeing those savings reflected

01:09 - 43.880 in this year's budget proposal.

01:09 - 48.220 The last one mentioned that there is a four per cent cost to carry

01:09 - 49.270 increase which

01:09 - 51.440 is within normal range.

01:09 - 52.150 Of

01:09 - 56.480 You know a sort of inflationary index and some standpoint.

01:09 - 59.530 What I'd like to ask you is let's talk about

01:09 - 01.220 less spending

01:10 - 04.790 and some cost cost cutting initiatives.

01:10 - 07.280 Or efficiency measures

01:10 - 09.160 that you as a department

01:10 - 10.940 are hopefully doing.

01:10 - 12.950 That we can better understand

01:10 - 15.700 those initiatives on your end can you give me two

01:10 - 17.860 that you are doing have done

01:10 - 19.540 and one initiative

01:10 - 21.650 on a cost cutting measure.

01:10 - 23.590 Rather than talking about increasing

01:10 - 25.160 our costs.

01:10 - 27.376 That you are looking forward to doing this year as well

01:10 - 28.630 sure that's certainly fair

01:10 - 31.450 I think one of our biggest

01:10 - 35.140 cost savings and again thanks to to tell all of you

01:10 - 36.490 with Jr I too

01:10 - 38.480 our savings

01:10 - 42.070 over the five year period was forty one point nine million dollars

01:10 - 46.070 and so we have seen a tremendous amount of.

01:10 - 46.420 Just

01:10 - 49.840 great work done around these populations and getting them

01:10 - 54.190 diverted into the appropriate treatment program as dtp state drug treatment

01:10 - 56.080 has been widely popular

01:10 - 58.630 although we haven't seen those numbers with boot camp

01:10 - 02.680 we've seen them more so in sd tp short sentence parole has been

01:11 - 05.200 studied the sentencing commission did have re.

01:11 - 08.038 I figure they probably share that with you but

01:11 - 10.918 individuals who were able to to leave the system

01:11 - 14.578 and do programming less misconduct so these are all

01:11 - 17.278 costs savings when we can get them out the door sooner

01:11 - 22.558 so again forty two million is huge and are forty one point nine million is huge

01:11 - 24.598 and then in addition to that

01:11 - 27.197 thirty eight point eight million dollars goes back

01:11 - 31.028 into county probation departments annually through pccd

01:11 - 35.368 so I just think that's been a huge win for everyone and we certainly appreciate that

01:11 - 39.634 deputy op and already talked about three forty be savings but he can share a little

01:11 - 42.934 bit about that as well sure minutes it's a federal program through the health

01:11 - 44.978 resources services administration

01:11 - 48.934 and we've department back musical goes all the way back to two thousand and fifteen I

01:11 - 51.534 started this with temple university providing HIV

01:11 - 54.388 treatment where temple was a three forty b entity

01:11 - 59.614 and then the last few we've expanded for hepatitis c and other medications and then

01:11 - 02.338 in two thousand and twenty three we became our own healthcare

01:12 - 04.288 three forty b entity

01:12 - 05.398 to qualified to

01:12 - 07.288 to keep on all those savings so

01:12 - 08.588 this is expanded

01:12 - 11.748 ten years ago we were going to saving about four and a half million dollars

01:12 - 14.758 last year were we saved thirty million dollars

01:12 - 16.708 in the three forty b program

01:12 - 17.709 and now we're

01:12 - 20.144 with the expectation of this current twenty five

01:12 - 22.528 twenty six year thirty my thirty nine million dollars

01:12 - 24.268 and it's a variety of drugs

01:12 - 27.598 expand into biologics beyond the HIV hep c

01:12 - 31.448 and and other medication psychotropic medications

01:12 - 34.748 so it's been a huge savings for the department.

01:12 - 37.018 Anything else as far as are

01:12 - 38.378 in your culture

01:12 - 40.678 and your administration piece that

01:12 - 42.718 you can offer as

01:12 - 44.708 initiatives that you're taking.

01:12 - 48.098 Anything else.

01:12 - 50.938 While the further cost saving measures yeah

01:12 - 52.288 well we also

01:12 - 54.708 have utilized working with DJs on the on the

01:12 - 57.208 giza projects that guaranteed energy savings

01:12 - 58.508 projects

01:12 - 00.958 these are performance based contracts where

01:13 - 03.747 the construction has to be quality quantified

01:13 - 06.118 with the savings you would have an energy

01:13 - 08.768 so we've done these at several facilities

01:13 - 12.898 roughly saved us about twenty million dollars a year right now with those projects

01:13 - 16.648 we're talking energy conservation upgrades to utility plants

01:13 - 19.028 waste water water conservation

01:13 - 23.168 and building automation systems making these more efficient

01:13 - 25.346 put an electric charging stations for electric

01:13 - 28.898 vehicles is some of that fleet starts to roll out.

01:13 - 30.358 So will we always look to

01:13 - 32.158 limit our use of energy

01:13 - 35.974 and obviously we have a great footprint so and we also have to maintain our

01:13 - 38.488 redundancy for emergency purposes

01:13 - 42.178 thank you I think that's what you know we're looking for I know I'm looking for

01:13 - 46.048 you know every little piece of like on a management level

01:13 - 48.014 that you could jail

01:13 - 48.868 to be smart

01:13 - 51.058 an efficient and cost cutting

01:13 - 55.328 as the needs grow in other ways so thank you very much.

01:13 - 01.538 Up next we have sen per cozy followed by senator Vogel.

01:14 - 05.448 Good morning thank you so much for being here

01:14 - 09.638 want to thank everything you do and as well as especially our corrections officers

01:14 - 12.874 incredibly difficult job I know there's some challenges with recruitment actually

01:14 - 15.754 that might be worth asking so what were some of the challenges you've experienced in

01:14 - 19.168 terms of recruiting your corrections officers finding new people to join the force

01:14 - 21.634 I know we've had some challenges in the city of Philadelphia

01:14 - 22.108 sure.

01:14 - 24.448 I think some of the biggest challenges

01:14 - 25.941 as I mentioned before were

01:14 - 28.678 a lot of our prisons are in rural areas areas

01:14 - 31.378 we have challenges around diversity and ensuring

01:14 - 35.698 that are popular our staffing matches our population that we serve

01:14 - 37.888 and we have

01:14 - 41.818 again done a phenomenal job with our recruitment and retention efforts though

01:14 - 45.088 so to be be in the position that we're at literally just

01:14 - 47.108 around three years.

01:14 - 50.338 From our largest vacancy rate

01:14 - 52.408 down to pre covert levels

01:14 - 56.228 is really going to be good for us because we can finally.

01:14 - 59.308 Back to the challenge question we can finally

01:14 - 01.718 hire individuals that we know

01:15 - 06.088 are the right fit for our agency and hopefully reducing our washout rate

01:15 - 08.548 because again if thirty five percent of our

01:15 - 11.308 ceo ones are leaving within the first nine months

01:15 - 12.388 now again

01:15 - 14.608 under twenty one it's twenty one percent

01:15 - 18.838 but that's a challenge because we're investing a lot of training time training

01:15 - 23.198 for on the job training and we don't want them to leave obviously so.

01:15 - 25.748 We're hopeful that when we're able to hire do mission

01:15 - 28.588 based hiring and bring people on that that will be

01:15 - 29.758 will be able to see some

01:15 - 32.278 greater dividends with our recruitment efforts

01:15 - 34.444 of course we're certainly grateful for the work they do

01:15 - 37.148 thank you I want to ask you about the first chance fund.

01:15 - 39.286 So I believe at forty four of twenty seventeen

01:15 - 42.358 created the first chance for within pccd where I serve

01:15 - 44.388 for the HP the purpose of granting grad

01:15 - 47.794 and providing grants to programs that benefit children regions of the commonwealth

01:15 - 49.618 with statistically higher dropout rates.

01:15 - 53.048 My understanding that individuals that contract with your department

01:15 - 55.064 are expected to contribute the equivalent of

01:15 - 58.028 value of one percent of their contracts around.

01:15 - 00.068 Me through the general update of the program

01:16 - 01.628 yes absolutely.

01:16 - 06.148 Phenomenal program really investing in the future of our children and our communities

01:16 - 07.018 and

01:16 - 10.418 right now we've collected four point nine million dollars.

01:16 - 13.323 May be able to provide a pccd is that over just

01:16 - 15.478 the last year over a period now that's over

01:16 - 16.998 that's over the length of the entire

01:16 - 18.218 twenty seventy

01:16 - 21.148 four point four point nine million four point nine million dollars

01:16 - 23.608 with three major contracts that we have have

01:16 - 25.988 the aramark food contract

01:16 - 30.938 centurion is our psychiatric contract provides our psychiatric services

01:16 - 34.648 as well as diamond pharmacy those are the three main contracts

01:16 - 37.318 now once we talked a little bit earlier medical rp

01:16 - 40.708 that contract is large enough that will qualify to so you're going to see

01:16 - 43.588 additional moneys come in from that contract as well

01:16 - 48.698 Jones has been more committed in this fiscal year with his new contract yes sir s.

01:16 - 52.624 Bybee correct in assuming the requirement for them to contribute one percent of the

01:16 - 53.968 value of these contracts does that

01:16 - 55.910 actually increase the cost of the contracts that they

01:16 - 58.508 get praised into what you spend on these contracts.

01:16 - 00.688 That's up to the vendor and how they would

01:17 - 02.258 submit their bid

01:17 - 05.008 so you've seen them absorb the key costs are you seeing that

01:17 - 06.848 kind of game pass through.

01:17 - 10.978 I've seen it both ways both ways movies it's three major vendors are

01:17 - 12.448 measuring the bulk of it would

01:17 - 13.065 seem to be

01:17 - 14.167 a fourth correct

01:17 - 15.178 and

01:17 - 18.002 you said it's four point nine million since twenty seventeen

01:17 - 20.578 how much in the last five years how much is coming in

01:17 - 21.568 on the average of your

01:17 - 22.888 last maybe three fiscal years.

01:17 - 26.404 I don't have that number we'd have to get that to you that's fine just go back to me

01:17 - 28.318 whenever you have it one point five when

01:17 - 29.608 one point five last year

01:17 - 29.968 yeah

01:17 - 30.628 okay

01:17 - 32.198 that's good to know.

01:17 - 34.500 Well thank you very much once again for for

01:17 - 36.404 coming here today and I yield the bounce my time

01:17 - 37.898 thank you.

01:17 - 42.578 Thank you centre of extent or Vogel followed by center penny cook.

01:17 - 46.178 The morning secretary thank you and your team for being here today.

01:17 - 49.648 I want to go with a jeopardy Altman first I believe you

01:17 - 52.838 you said you had spent eighty six million dollars is your food contract.

01:17 - 56.244 Circa currently we're spending eighty six point

01:17 - 58.318 three million dollars on our food contract

01:17 - 59.828 and you have a

01:18 - 02.039 you mentioned aramark aramark your major vendor

01:18 - 04.678 or do you have several different vendors you use

01:18 - 06.854 no aramark is the main vendor

01:18 - 08.668 they procure all of our food

01:18 - 10.048 working with

01:18 - 12.998 what other subcontractors or producers

01:18 - 15.688 to supply fly all of the food for our department

01:18 - 20.318 but we are in the middle of a procurement for food services as well.

01:18 - 23.968 I'm going to be my for my next question how much of that is Pennsylvania.

01:18 - 26.888 Supplied produce and.

01:18 - 29.278 Milk and eggs etc etc I guess you have to

01:18 - 31.738 have the center's twenty six per cent

01:18 - 32.848 is our current

01:18 - 36.028 Pennsylvania contribution from the producers the this

01:18 - 38.818 the warehouse scene is at seventy six percent but

01:18 - 41.258 it's a variety of things dairy.

01:18 - 42.148 Produce

01:18 - 43.388 pizza.

01:18 - 44.488 Ground beef

01:18 - 45.658 applesauce

01:18 - 47.038 beans tomatoes

01:18 - 49.598 a variety of our our our homegrown.

01:18 - 52.298 Food is is using this contract.

01:18 - 52.948 Ever and

01:18 - 55.714 I'm glad we use a lot of Pennsylvania produce that's great to know that

01:18 - 57.458 and also back to the.

01:18 - 59.698 Deal with body cameras and union saying no I

01:19 - 01.058 I would like to.

01:19 - 02.098 Understand why

01:19 - 05.118 aren't local police department couldn't wait to get body cameras because

01:19 - 07.558 he said she said things goes it goes away

01:19 - 09.298 and I'm just curious if you have a

01:19 - 11.348 reason for why they.

01:19 - 12.518 Don't want to do that

01:19 - 15.107 well I think and we've seen a little bit on the parole

01:19 - 18.598 side the biggest thing is messaging obviously when

01:19 - 22.888 folks see the benefit in val liu and the work that is

01:19 - 25.958 eliminated when you have things on video

01:19 - 28.198 we do a lot of investigations around

01:19 - 29.728 allegations whether it's

01:19 - 31.468 uses of force abuse

01:19 - 33.478 pria prison rape elimination act

01:19 - 37.594 I think probably the biggest hesitation for folks and I don't want to speak for them

01:19 - 40.868 but in conversations I had at least with the prior.

01:19 - 43.648 Union leadership was just the fact that you're

01:19 - 46.203 that they don't know how it works will we be

01:19 - 48.388 wired all day long you know that kind of thing

01:19 - 52.474 and what if someone says something inappropriate and things like that just feeling

01:19 - 54.058 like you're you're being monitored

01:19 - 58.988 as opposed to hey the value of these just absolutely outweighs

01:19 - 02.728 some of those concerns but again that's on us to do proper messaging which

01:20 - 05.728 I really think on the parole side they've done a really nice job

01:20 - 07.558 the vast majority they're

01:20 - 10.048 apprehensive of course I think that's normal

01:20 - 12.233 and what will the policy look like and those

01:20 - 14.968 types of things but I think once they actually see

01:20 - 17.728 the benefits and read the policy and we

01:20 - 18.868 we do the roll out

01:20 - 20.968 and effectively communicated I think

01:20 - 22.648 that again I I think that will help

01:20 - 27.088 if we do make it to a point obviously with body cams with our officers

01:20 - 29.616 okay yeah I believe even even though the fact you might

01:20 - 31.948 use some rough language and rough language might be

01:20 - 34.438 caught on tape or whatever I still think

01:20 - 36.178 that's how that whole system rolls

01:20 - 37.784 and I don't think that should be an issue

01:20 - 39.528 that they should worry about you know I mean

01:20 - 42.478 as far as that goes when is your contract up to discuss possibly be

01:20 - 44.878 discussed again for psc away it's

01:20 - 47.498 July twenty twenty eight.

01:20 - 48.358 Years

01:20 - 48.778 okay

01:20 - 50.458 so next year will be asked me

01:20 - 52.258 in two thousand twenty seven okay

01:20 - 53.218 and just

01:20 - 54.778 I'm curious how much you sit

01:20 - 55.348 on

01:20 - 55.918 The

01:20 - 58.768 bed situation how many extra spare beds do you have I guess

01:20 - 59.818 you've gone

01:21 - 02.068 back and forth to six thousand bad thing at all

01:21 - 03.878 nobody has the exact.

01:21 - 08.164 Number of spare bedroom to have well again I can give you a number of though it's a

01:21 - 09.718 rolling number but I'm just curious

01:21 - 10.858 is the numbers are just

01:21 - 15.568 correct it it's too complicated to kind of explain but we can certainly follow up

01:21 - 17.698 with a little more detail but

01:21 - 21.208 when we say we have let's say we we say we have three

01:21 - 22.628 three thousand

01:21 - 23.876 population beds

01:21 - 26.716 that's really the beds that we kind of look at

01:21 - 28.216 whatever that number is

01:21 - 32.686 and again we have therapeutic community beds we have mental health beds we have

01:21 - 37.006 a lot of different specialized beds as opposed to just general

01:21 - 37.696 beds

01:21 - 40.140 so when we look at that number it can be

01:21 - 42.646 deceiving when you hear six thousand it isn't

01:21 - 45.346 some some of them are in the restricted housing unit that's not

01:21 - 48.166 a general population and may can't live in that bed

01:21 - 53.386 so we can follow up with a little more detail but you have to understand

01:21 - 57.196 we have beds that go offline on a regular basis in our facilities

01:21 - 58.606 for maintenance issues

01:21 - 00.766 plumbing lighting what have you

01:22 - 03.976 and so it doesn't account for those ties types of things

01:22 - 05.686 inmates can have a single cell

01:22 - 09.202 doesn't account for that but we can try to narrow that down and get you a better

01:22 - 12.202 number if that would help as you can get us the numbers to the perversion stutter and

01:22 - 14.372 a prejudice just for better understanding what what

01:22 - 16.876 a a member women's business then I guess as far as

01:22 - 18.236 er that

01:22 - 20.386 includes both men and women's know feet

01:22 - 21.826 we are female capacity

01:22 - 24.586 is right now is it about at around seventy point

01:22 - 27.556 seventy one point seven percent to about seventy two percent

01:22 - 31.066 we definitely have space in our female facilities right now.

01:22 - 34.252 Okay thank you very much and get that information to staff at okay

01:22 - 34.606 thank you

01:22 - 36.086 for sharing.

01:22 - 39.896 The closer around one center penny cook.

01:22 - 45.496 Thank you and thank you secretary for being here

01:22 - 49.736 and as you know I have sci Phoenix in my district and.

01:22 - 51.536 And.

01:22 - 53.536 I'm curious as to

01:22 - 57.086 and I have this lovely sheet of the amount of overtime

01:22 - 59.806 and I know sci Phoenix has some staffing issues

01:23 - 00.736 have you

01:23 - 02.186 as as.

01:23 - 04.966 There's quite a concentration in the southeast

01:23 - 08.236 of facilities is there an ability to

01:23 - 13.826 knock back the amount of mandatory overtime with maybe pulling someone from sci

01:23 - 17.026 or from Chester or from other and kind of opening it up

01:23 - 17.866 or is

01:23 - 19.906 that not possible to say

01:23 - 25.012 hey this facility doesn't have overtime but you want overtime you can go to sci

01:23 - 29.776 Phoenix that's something we have only done that of course we did it through

01:23 - 30.956 through coven and

01:23 - 34.706 when there were circumstances there is something that has to be.

01:23 - 38.156 Agreed with the union and people get preference

01:23 - 42.086 so I don't I don't know really what that would look like it's not something.

01:23 - 44.836 Because when they're hired they're hired for that facility

01:23 - 46.486 now I will tell you back

01:23 - 50.336 when we did have a facility that was struggling with staffing

01:23 - 50.896 and

01:23 - 53.836 albion in Cambridge Springs so we allowed

01:23 - 58.406 we worked out with a union for Cambridge Springs to cover the hospital posts

01:23 - 02.146 and so we've done those types of kind of one off scenarios but

01:24 - 04.826 that would be something we'd have to

01:24 - 08.626 talk to the union about as far as we're willing to talk to the union about that

01:24 - 13.066 we could but then you'd have to understand your robbing Peter to pay Paul as well

01:24 - 13.906 and

01:24 - 15.626 depending on

01:24 - 15.916 who

01:24 - 18.946 I don't love the proximity of where the facility is like

01:24 - 20.626 Chester probably wouldn't be.

01:24 - 23.056 Depending let's say Chester had

01:24 - 24.506 a similar.

01:24 - 27.526 Vague vacancy rate and struggles with theirs

01:24 - 30.506 then you're pulling people that are from a different.

01:24 - 32.632 Further further away not all of our facilities

01:24 - 35.416 like somerset and Laurel highlands are closed as

01:24 - 39.282 voluntary it's not you're not forcing someone to take

01:24 - 42.316 that over time but I think if there's individuals

01:24 - 44.396 that are looking for overtime

01:24 - 45.376 I'm looking at

01:24 - 48.356 from the perspective that correctional officers.

01:24 - 51.406 That are forced into mandatory overtime are tired

01:24 - 55.096 they're compromised and maybe they're just to the point where they just don't

01:24 - 56.986 want that any more

01:24 - 57.916 because of

01:24 - 01.306 children at home you know family life whatever I'm worried about

01:25 - 03.916 the correctional officers quality of life

01:25 - 06.466 with prolonged exposure measure two

01:25 - 10.696 mandatory overtime and if there's an opportunity for maybe another correctional

01:25 - 13.576 officer at another facility to say hey I I

01:25 - 14.726 I will take it

01:25 - 16.786 and it's only a twenty minute drive from my house

01:25 - 20.116 why are we not doing that to give those correctional officers

01:25 - 24.586 a little bit of a mental and physical and emotional break from the mandatory overtime

01:25 - 26.866 I do understand what you're saying but our

01:25 - 29.356 mandatory overtime is only at fifteen percent

01:25 - 30.856 and and a normal

01:25 - 34.486 mandatory overtime would be between ten and fifteen percent for

01:25 - 36.266 normal mandatory

01:25 - 38.866 different circumstances obviously during covert

01:25 - 40.196 and but

01:25 - 42.136 we're not seeing the high

01:25 - 45.296 percentages of mandeans that we did.

01:25 - 47.276 In PR prior years.

01:25 - 49.366 I just think it's something that you should

01:25 - 52.626 kind of look at just for the mental health and now you're doing a lot of outreach

01:25 - 54.776 and a lot of wellness

01:25 - 56.911 activities for your correctional officers I just

01:25 - 59.326 think it might be another tool in your toolbox

01:25 - 01.606 to give them a little bit of a break to say

01:26 - 04.256 maybe even a new facility might.

01:26 - 06.476 Kind of be a nice break for them.

01:26 - 08.036 Additionally

01:26 - 11.806 I know you have this six thousand beds and it's a rolling plan

01:26 - 13.436 yada yada yada.

01:26 - 14.956 I kind of did the math

01:26 - 17.266 you forty eight thousand beds total

01:26 - 19.266 forty eight thousand three hundred beds total

01:26 - 23.776 so a ten percent wiggle room would be about forty eight hundred beds

01:26 - 26.056 do you think ten percent is a good wiggle room for

01:26 - 28.666 as you said maintenance problems or

01:26 - 30.766 certain units can't take certain

01:26 - 31.916 inmates.

01:26 - 35.846 It all depends on the facility and.

01:26 - 38.146 I guess the question is.

01:26 - 42.346 Where overcapacity and crime is going down thankfully

01:26 - 45.176 we're very everyone's very happy about that.

01:26 - 50.386 But costs are going up and we have these empty beds and I look at that and go oh

01:26 - 52.136 how can we save

01:26 - 55.456 money on the empty beds and put it towards

01:26 - 56.986 stuff that you really need.

01:26 - 01.966 We that we actually closed housing units we talked about this last year last year

01:27 - 05.716 we closed approximately eighteen housing units this was pre closure

01:27 - 09.436 and we saved money that way this past year we closed fourteen how

01:27 - 13.516 we're able to keep fourteen housing units closed at the tune of about nine

01:27 - 15.076 nine million dollars

01:27 - 20.572 and so when we're eight able to close units it helps an overtime and obviously

01:27 - 24.556 decreases the footprint and we will continue to do that as we're able to

01:27 - 26.086 there are some units

01:27 - 26.806 and

01:27 - 27.586 that

01:27 - 29.296 just may not be

01:27 - 31.846 like a specialized unit if we don't have

01:27 - 33.406 enough mental health

01:27 - 36.766 individuals for like an residential treatment

01:27 - 37.576 my time is

01:27 - 40.096 almost up and I just want to get this last question and

01:27 - 44.206 I'm so as you close these units and you decrease over time

01:27 - 46.846 what is your attrition rate and what is your in.

01:27 - 49.716 Hiring rate are you seen a decrease in overall

01:27 - 53.186 numbers of correctional officers that you need.

01:27 - 56.776 I think our recruitment and retention numbers are showing that now

01:27 - 59.276 because we have been able to.

01:27 - 02.146 Manage manage our mandatory overtime

01:28 - 04.826 and manage with the closures obviously

01:28 - 05.266 we

01:28 - 10.306 We were able to disperse of folks to the facilities that have the vacancies

01:28 - 13.676 so I think we are too I remember my time thank thank you.

01:28 - 18.056 Thank you senator I'm going to turn over asunder Kim before we begin round two.

01:28 - 19.736 The heart ache everyone

01:28 - 20.996 learning.

01:28 - 22.456 Do I need

01:28 - 24.416 the green light or.

01:28 - 26.456 Okay.

01:28 - 28.006 My

01:28 - 29.336 My benefit.

01:28 - 35.036 What is your definition of her semitism and what is the percentage

01:28 - 37.595 so our recidivism rate is around fifty

01:28 - 39.826 fifty seven percent right now

01:28 - 40.756 it is

01:28 - 42.436 our third lowest

01:28 - 46.456 in past years if you saw our testimony we were up in

01:28 - 49.126 averaging between sixty and sixty four percent

01:28 - 54.476 we actually we define recidivism as re arrest or re incarceration

01:28 - 56.876 so an individual could be rearrested

01:28 - 00.646 may or may not have charges filed against him or her

01:29 - 03.274 or he or she can come back into prison so that's

01:29 - 05.566 how we've been measured measuring it for years.

01:29 - 08.176 Not everyone measures at the same way though

01:29 - 11.786 and so it's complicated to do comparisons with other states.

01:29 - 13.736 Is that accurate to.

01:29 - 14.896 Use

01:29 - 20.010 the population as a measure of success or should we have it with precipitous.

01:29 - 21.856 Because we are always

01:29 - 23.926 concentrate on the population of the presents

01:29 - 26.566 but what about the rest of it as some factors

01:29 - 28.186 should they go together

01:29 - 29.306 well

01:29 - 33.376 I think a ch challenge for us and I brought this up I believe it was last year

01:29 - 35.066 we don't measure

01:29 - 37.306 education success by dropouts

01:29 - 41.176 we measure it by people who get their ged and graduate from high school

01:29 - 43.886 so what we want to start measuring.

01:29 - 46.366 Is our distance rates

01:29 - 47.986 so d systems

01:29 - 49.586 is essentially

01:29 - 56.812 if you re our twenty twenty two recidivism report most ninety percent of the folks

01:29 - 00.406 who leave our system meet one of three distance benchmarks

01:30 - 01.586 which is

01:30 - 02.506 completely

01:30 - 05.816 cessation stopping commission of crime altogether

01:30 - 06.526 and

01:30 - 09.416 a lower frequency of committing crimes

01:30 - 11.746 or committing less c serious crimes

01:30 - 16.366 so for us we really are trying to shift the narrative to

01:30 - 18.826 let's focus on distance what are the

01:30 - 22.106 success factors the things that we're doing on the inside

01:30 - 25.336 to ensure more success and higher distance rate

01:30 - 28.996 it was if ninety percent of our individuals met one of three benchmarks

01:30 - 30.256 that's pretty high

01:30 - 31.526 and so we

01:30 - 35.866 started a recidivism and d systems initiative this past year

01:30 - 37.166 where each

01:30 - 40.166 parole district district office each institution

01:30 - 42.316 community correction center they all

01:30 - 45.496 have a target benchmark and then we would

01:30 - 48.436 give them a certificate every time they met their benchmark

01:30 - 50.926 we had two facilities that had twelve months

01:30 - 54.136 of meeting their benchmark for recidivism and assistance

01:30 - 57.676 and so now we will start that next phase of

01:30 - 02.386 looking at what are some of the things that they're doing that can be best practices

01:31 - 04.576 and translate to other sites so

01:31 - 06.136 excellent question because

01:31 - 09.856 we focus so heavily on recidivism but we really need to focus on

01:31 - 11.303 the systems.

01:31 - 12.566 Before that

01:31 - 14.656 I think that's the best way to save

01:31 - 17.476 money for dios correct and it's better for the individual

01:31 - 17.926 right

01:31 - 19.436 so.

01:31 - 21.116 Looking out

01:31 - 24.496 and seeing some factors maybe that could affect your department

01:31 - 27.106 and anticipating some things so that when you come back

01:31 - 30.356 perhaps hopefully not from our money will understand.

01:31 - 31.796 So.

01:31 - 33.836 The vaccination rates.

01:31 - 35.486 Are going down.

01:31 - 36.596 People.

01:31 - 39.106 Either they don't trust doctors or science

01:31 - 40.496 less keep aren't.

01:31 - 43.364 I'm not sure if it's the generation that's coming in

01:31 - 47.474 but are you prepared you could treated like covert but are you prepared

01:31 - 52.254 for your staff members and inmates for a lower vaccination rate and possible.

01:31 - 53.954 Disease spreading in your.

01:31 - 55.424 Correctional facility

01:31 - 00.804 that is something that we've seen inside with our inmate population as well.

01:32 - 05.064 They are still getting the flu vaccine the percentage is.

01:32 - 06.744 Twenty percent

01:32 - 08.684 but it's lower for kovac

01:32 - 13.370 and of course during covert we saw higher rates of vaccination we don't mandate

01:32 - 18.344 vaccinations for our population but our medical staff do a really nice job especially

01:32 - 19.854 with our vulnerable

01:32 - 21.794 folks who have hm medical conditions

01:32 - 25.874 to really encourage them particularly with flu shots covert vaccines

01:32 - 29.744 we want to make sure that they have the at least have the information that they need

01:32 - 32.114 our medical staff are always prepared

01:32 - 36.764 for diseases and they do a great job at managing that

01:32 - 37.484 but

01:32 - 38.884 did you have anything to add for.

01:32 - 41.414 A robust infection control pro Graham

01:32 - 43.394 we've been doing it with this for years

01:32 - 45.494 things like tuberculosis

01:32 - 48.644 of avian flu and then covert gums

01:32 - 50.094 we know that we have a very.

01:32 - 51.714 Congregated

01:32 - 53.744 population that we have to manage

01:32 - 56.454 and we have to take all the precautions

01:32 - 57.984 to

01:32 - 01.574 To make sure that we keep our staff and are in our inmates safe.

01:33 - 03.234 Like you.

01:33 - 06.684 Anticipating as we heard from doctor cuz yesterday

01:33 - 07.544 more rural

01:33 - 09.174 hospital closures.

01:33 - 11.954 How is that going to affect you

01:33 - 14.814 and sending your inmates to hospitals

01:33 - 15.483 is there

01:33 - 18.243 more overtime involved with the ceo going further out

01:33 - 21.044 how are you anticipating some rural hospital closures

01:33 - 25.040 it certainly could be and we've seen that already in some of our rural areas

01:33 - 26.894 especially depending on the type of.

01:33 - 30.674 Illness or injury that an inmate may have

01:33 - 34.514 they may have to bypass even a local hospital that no longer has

01:33 - 36.434 a fully robust

01:33 - 39.974 trauma or iar and then then they'll have to go further we see that

01:33 - 41.474 you dealt with that probably at

01:33 - 44.484 sci Greene a little bit because the hospital.

01:33 - 46.194 Go ahead.

01:33 - 47.474 Yeah we're

01:33 - 48.886 we're worst.

01:33 - 51.464 Some wars

01:33 - 52.214 issues

01:33 - 54.834 such as associate force that are.

01:33 - 58.664 You know their their medical facilities are substantial

01:33 - 01.214 distance away from the institutions and.

01:34 - 02.784 I know.

01:34 - 05.211 What you just brought up the were some there

01:34 - 07.034 medical facilities close and

01:34 - 07.814 that just

01:34 - 09.164 exaggerates the problem

01:34 - 11.954 and it could certainly increase over time for us

01:34 - 14.211 because if they have if they can't go to a

01:34 - 16.754 local area then they will go to the next closest

01:34 - 20.234 closest hospital that was one of the concerns really with quianna

01:34 - 22.994 when we said yeah could this be a facility

01:34 - 25.039 for medical parole but there are no close

01:34 - 27.614 calls but I think it's like forty miles away

01:34 - 29.384 maybe for the closest hospital

01:34 - 31.334 it is a distance and what were seen as these

01:34 - 33.674 these conglomerates start to buy up these

01:34 - 36.284 these local hospitals and we're seeing these large

01:34 - 37.404 healthcare

01:34 - 38.204 entities

01:34 - 40.354 even though we might taken in may two hundred

01:34 - 42.014 and one one hospital then

01:34 - 44.564 those services then they want to transfer them to another

01:34 - 46.774 and then we have to juggle will make sure that another

01:34 - 48.854 institution might have to take custody of an inmate

01:34 - 51.944 so it is the strain and it's definitely an increase in our

01:34 - 53.624 and our costs when they do this but

01:34 - 56.594 good point we have done that where we say okay

01:34 - 00.714 now the individual is closer to this facility we transfer

01:35 - 03.824 hospital posed to that closer facility because it's

01:35 - 05.094 obviously

01:35 - 06.444 less costly.

01:35 - 07.944 Thank you for that

01:35 - 09.494 also anticipating new

01:35 - 12.564 rule rules or regulations with snap and medicaid

01:35 - 14.774 and your folks come out of prison

01:35 - 16.224 pretty vulnerable.

01:35 - 17.924 Do you anticipate.

01:35 - 20.454 Any issues.

01:35 - 23.698 Without getting back onto the feet of heirs.

01:35 - 26.004 Getting stabbed for example.

01:35 - 29.774 Well I think

01:35 - 34.874 those are those are challenges we we do our very best when folks leave our system to

01:35 - 38.624 give them things like an ID and social security card and

01:35 - 41.084 fill out compass applications so that

01:35 - 46.274 those services can start right away but we have had gaps in those services

01:35 - 48.014 and our particularly our

01:35 - 50.834 our community correction centers do a really nice job

01:35 - 55.494 in ensuring that they can connect connect them but it certainly is a possibility

01:35 - 56.144 and

01:35 - 57.284 it definitely is

01:35 - 59.354 but we do have the staff and the centers

01:35 - 03.554 that can really really try to hold their hand and they have the resources available

01:36 - 05.544 to try to connect them.

01:36 - 06.374 Medications

01:36 - 07.574 oh yeah we do provide

01:36 - 08.474 medications

01:36 - 10.124 upon their release to help

01:36 - 11.714 bridge that gap but

01:36 - 15.924 again for only so long until they need to pick up those resources.

01:36 - 20.574 We have reentry service offices and all of our facilities

01:36 - 25.914 and every single inmate who is releasing has the opportunity to.

01:36 - 30.674 Participate in workshops or just go and find out services we do our best

01:36 - 34.554 to educate them on the local food banks shelters

01:36 - 35.924 if they're maxing out

01:36 - 38.264 we really we try to prepare them

01:36 - 42.066 and the best possible way for success and then if they're

01:36 - 45.014 on parole we have community reentered parole agents

01:36 - 47.624 in every office and sub office

01:36 - 50.329 and they meet with every single new release and that's

01:36 - 53.784 one of the first things that they talk about is.

01:36 - 56.864 Food shelter clothing medication

01:36 - 59.306 making sure they know where the local resources

01:36 - 01.394 are so we are trying to get ahead of that

01:37 - 02.204 great

01:37 - 04.083 thank you for your answers on my last one is a

01:37 - 06.254 little bit random but just kind of a look back

01:37 - 08.354 or doing less mandatory

01:37 - 09.474 minimums.

01:37 - 11.184 Legislatively.

01:37 - 13.224 I.

01:37 - 15.714 How do you.

01:37 - 18.114 Anticipate predict.

01:37 - 21.684 When you have those mandatory minimums and.

01:37 - 23.154 People coming in

01:37 - 25.944 how how how can you protect that in your budget.

01:37 - 26.684 So

01:37 - 29.574 With regard to like population projections

01:37 - 31.721 right population projections are very difficult

01:37 - 35.874 our research division does a really nice job of it

01:37 - 37.154 and dissipating

01:37 - 40.874 what that's going to look like but as you're right we can account for

01:37 - 45.224 legislation we can't account for court decisions that might impact our

01:37 - 50.484 our population of course we couldn't account for a worldwide pandemic so.

01:37 - 53.670 We do we have looked at that and actually over the

01:37 - 56.624 next five years we're anticipating just a slight

01:37 - 58.094 monthly increase

01:37 - 01.844 although currently we're seeing a slight monthly decrease

01:38 - 04.094 so again we're not sure but we're

01:38 - 07.544 we're looking at potentially out to twenty thirty

01:38 - 10.074 being at around forty thousand.

01:38 - 12.898 Four hundred and fifty individuals or five

01:38 - 15.584 fourth forty thousand five hundred individuals

01:38 - 17.294 by twenty thirty if

01:38 - 20.504 our projections of the the slight increase month lease

01:38 - 21.254 hold

01:38 - 24.974 again it's conservative and of course other factors could impact that

01:38 - 27.114 but that's what we're projecting.

01:38 - 29.634 Follow up on my last question.

01:38 - 30.164 Sure

01:38 - 31.844 do mandatory minimums

01:38 - 33.074 drive up your costs

01:38 - 34.484 absolutely we see

01:38 - 37.244 I worked at campo which is the classification so center

01:38 - 41.664 and when we have mandatory minimums more people come into our system

01:38 - 45.794 and that may normally have been in maybe a county system or

01:38 - 48.614 diversionary courts that type of thing so

01:38 - 50.904 yes it increases our population.

01:38 - 53.120 Thank you thank you very much for your answers

01:38 - 54.144 sir chairman.

01:38 - 54.794 Thank you

01:38 - 55.784 okay

01:38 - 57.554 then move on to round two

01:38 - 01.130 standing committee chairs while five minutes apiece and members will have three

01:39 - 02.874 minutes apiece we're going to start off with

01:39 - 06.114 a standing committee chair baker followed by.

01:39 - 08.154 Senator capital letty.

01:39 - 12.354 Thank you so much you've been here all morning we greatly appreciate

01:39 - 15.254 your answering the questions deputy are

01:39 - 17.594 up man just one quick question you said

01:39 - 19.014 the medical

01:39 - 23.844 contract does expire in August and the potential.

01:39 - 26.714 Exists for your not

01:39 - 28.574 clear about whether it will

01:39 - 29.654 and

01:39 - 32.274 you will have a new contract executed

01:39 - 34.584 by August what happens.

01:39 - 37.016 Well what we can do the point is we can always

01:39 - 39.734 add an extension to the current contract until

01:39 - 43.604 until that rfp runs through the process it's pretty typical and procurement

01:39 - 44.934 where if the

01:39 - 45.584 the euro

01:39 - 47.024 and what would that

01:39 - 49.588 what would your projection of costs cosby with

01:39 - 52.764 it would that be a six month contract extension

01:39 - 54.584 just looking so we're we're

01:39 - 55.394 here at

01:39 - 56.864 asking about the budget

01:39 - 01.514 potentially what would that be if you were to extend it six months or you were

01:40 - 03.284 you didn't have the contract that

01:40 - 04.464 would probably send

01:40 - 06.124 say twelve months would probably just do a one

01:40 - 08.234 year contract doesn't mean we can't end it early

01:40 - 13.574 and it would be a fly but it would be a flood contract with the current expenses okay

01:40 - 16.164 thank you I appreciate that.

01:40 - 19.154 Mister fox you've been very patient and no one has

01:40 - 20.084 asked you

01:40 - 23.664 any questions so you know I usually do that.

01:40 - 25.557 You have.

01:40 - 26.041 You

01:40 - 28.184 do I appreciate the work you do

01:40 - 31.004 and and the board and

01:40 - 32.744 has recently

01:40 - 35.724 a case on civil discovery.

01:40 - 38.264 Has been issued that said

01:40 - 39.834 the department

01:40 - 42.804 must turn over records of denial

01:40 - 46.284 on parole as part of civil discovery

01:40 - 50.204 that raises some interesting questions about how you

01:40 - 53.414 and the other members of the board look at

01:40 - 56.934 decision making factors you utilize

01:40 - 00.314 what is your position on that and do you believe

01:41 - 02.214 there should be clarifying

01:41 - 05.294 legislation I know chair cap palladian I have

01:41 - 08.244 been having some discussions about.

01:41 - 11.560 Ensuring that we give you the ability to make

01:41 - 15.194 the right decisions with the tools that you have

01:41 - 18.534 and that that could have broad implications

01:41 - 21.684 to the work that you and the members of the board do.

01:41 - 26.304 Thank you that is a very important issue for us we do feel like.

01:41 - 30.914 We look at a at a large amount of information when we make a parole decision

01:41 - 33.734 and so we want access to every file

01:41 - 34.424 that

01:41 - 36.288 essentially someone has had whether it's their

01:41 - 39.414 criminal justice files before they come in.

01:41 - 42.234 The the dlc files when they're in.

01:41 - 43.754 How they're doing on the blog so.

01:41 - 44.624 All

01:41 - 49.258 nation we like to be able to review because we want to make a good safe decision before

01:41 - 50.648 parole someone

01:41 - 53.128 and we have a deliberative process where the

01:41 - 57.148 board members speak to each other in and trying to determine what happens

01:41 - 58.388 for this case

01:41 - 01.208 we do want that information protected

01:42 - 02.318 if we have

01:42 - 05.288 our psych staff that is writing reports

01:42 - 06.688 that we have access to

01:42 - 08.368 we don't want that psych staff

01:42 - 09.788 to be

01:42 - 10.798 put at risk

01:42 - 14.038 when they're trying to work with individuals in the institution because

01:42 - 17.458 now all of a sudden they're blaming them for being having their parole denied

01:42 - 18.238 same with

01:42 - 19.918 wave with correctional officers

01:42 - 24.578 same things with things like anything from home plant some people.

01:42 - 25.228 You know so

01:42 - 27.868 they think they've got a home plan and they

01:42 - 29.458 go out and they talk to their

01:42 - 31.617 somebody in their family their family might

01:42 - 33.598 confidentially say lesson they can't come here

01:42 - 35.068 we really don't want them here

01:42 - 38.908 and that type of information all goes into our parole decision

01:42 - 41.486 so we're trying to restrict that access so anything

01:42 - 44.128 the legislature can do to kind of prepare it to

01:42 - 44.938 a more

01:42 - 46.568 competent actual.

01:42 - 49.130 Relationship that we've had in the past that's what

01:42 - 51.358 we're looking to do so we appreciate that so much

01:42 - 54.268 I appreciate that clarification and

01:42 - 56.968 and certainly understand if you're turned down

01:42 - 58.528 you'd like to know

01:42 - 02.638 why the decision was made but the factors that go into it

01:43 - 05.908 seemed to me to be much more complicated than and

01:43 - 09.928 simply a yes or no and and I I respect that

01:43 - 14.528 and if I could just add we do we do list our reasons for refusal.

01:43 - 19.598 In in more general terms but people do understand what they need to do to make Pearl.

01:43 - 22.528 Understood I and I appreciate you clarifying that

01:43 - 25.378 the the complement of the board

01:43 - 28.328 curve Huntley is at full complement

01:43 - 31.838 and I know you have interest I'm looking at legislation

01:43 - 34.358 to extend the.

01:43 - 37.558 Those who serve until successor is qualified

01:43 - 41.708 so we don't run into a situation where people are rotating

01:43 - 42.328 off

01:43 - 44.908 and you support that I appreciate that

01:43 - 47.198 just one final one question

01:43 - 47.818 we

01:43 - 51.658 Enacted act forty four of twenty twenty four that

01:43 - 55.948 created mandatory probation review conferences

01:43 - 59.308 I'm hearing at the county levels that that has

01:43 - 01.108 worked out very well

01:44 - 03.988 and more than half are being

01:44 - 07.208 terminated of of their our.

01:44 - 09.418 Involvement in the system

01:44 - 13.988 while retaining those individuals who need the higher level of supervision

01:44 - 16.988 how are you finding that being implemented

01:44 - 19.978 with your inmates who are

01:44 - 21.898 county or not county

01:44 - 23.368 and mates but

01:44 - 25.838 state corrections inmates.

01:44 - 32.168 You're talking about act forty four of the special probation legislation

01:44 - 37.858 and while it just started we started sending the cases to the courts in June

01:44 - 41.248 and I believe we've had sixteen

01:44 - 44.878 had their cases closed and we have

01:44 - 49.628 one hundred and I believe thirty nine that are still pending with the courts.

01:44 - 50.828 So it's really just

01:44 - 52.828 it's rather new for us but we are

01:44 - 54.008 we.

01:44 - 56.998 Created a an electronic report

01:44 - 58.378 to help our agents

01:44 - 00.338 identify those cases

01:45 - 04.468 and would appreciate if you continue to share that information I think

01:45 - 06.568 we'd like your agents to be

01:45 - 07.688 focusing on

01:45 - 10.678 those with the highest need and if someone is

01:45 - 14.248 eligible and can return fully to the community

01:45 - 17.818 without being supervised I think that makes sense yes

01:45 - 19.958 thank you very much welcome.

01:45 - 26.258 Thank-you center of Mexico senator capital letter followed by senator Dutch.

01:45 - 29.738 Thank you chairman Martin.

01:45 - 30.538 Thank you

01:45 - 34.058 senator baker and secretary Harry I think that.

01:45 - 37.288 You know you hit the nail on the head on us working together on a few issues

01:45 - 41.318 when it comes to the parole board so I kind of want to go back to.

01:45 - 45.508 Questions that may be parole related or perhaps

01:45 - 48.088 secretary hurry you might have answers for them

01:45 - 50.938 your recidivism rate that you mentioned at fifty

01:45 - 52.468 seven percent I believe you said

01:45 - 54.208 do you know are those

01:45 - 55.828 do you have the breakdown of

01:45 - 57.668 those that.

01:45 - 00.979 Investigated that completed their sentences versus

01:46 - 04.628 those who ever said sedated who aren't one per roll.

01:46 - 10.948 Yeah I don't believe we track that in that way

01:46 - 12.278 because of course

01:46 - 15.668 for eyes it's the folks who are still under supervision

01:46 - 20.288 that would reset of eight and contribute to our recidivism number.

01:46 - 26.948 Specifically about individuals who are who are out on parole than correct.

01:46 - 28.208 Okay.

01:46 - 29.458 Cause I wanted to then.

01:46 - 31.058 Ask.

01:46 - 34.978 Part of what we have in our system that people may not know that helps.

01:46 - 37.858 Individuals access parole earlier

01:46 - 39.328 are programs

01:46 - 40.078 like

01:46 - 43.018 the drug treatment programs that are in our systems

01:46 - 47.608 short sentence parole or recidivism risk reduction and then tips

01:46 - 50.398 that we've put into place as a legislative body

01:46 - 53.278 to help nonviolent offenders reduce their sentences

01:46 - 57.364 and I'm just wondering for the individuals who have participated in programs like

01:46 - 00.508 that that may help them get to parole sooner rather than later

01:47 - 04.748 do we know what their recidivism rates look like versus the general population

01:47 - 07.588 the triple you're referring specifically to triple r I hi

01:47 - 08.738 folks

01:47 - 10.658 and a few other.

01:47 - 14.288 Uber other initiatives that we have in there but yeah that one.

01:47 - 16.988 Yes they are lower than our general.

01:47 - 19.598 Recidivism rate.

01:47 - 22.078 Wonderful that is good to know

01:47 - 26.224 anything that is there anything that we can do to continue to support programs like

01:47 - 29.468 that and getting individuals access to those programs

01:47 - 30.698 and

01:47 - 35.708 to get them the help that they might need or the support that they might need and in.

01:47 - 39.638 Bettering themselves and being able to access parole.

01:47 - 42.298 I really think our staff do a great job whether it's

01:47 - 43.538 our treatment staff

01:47 - 45.388 or our officers in

01:47 - 49.678 ensuring like hey these are the programs that you need we encourage you to go we

01:47 - 50.858 we do see a hyper

01:47 - 56.374 high percent of participation in our programming so the unit team really focuses

01:47 - 58.588 heavily on hey you got to stay in your program

01:47 - 02.258 these are the things that you need to do to look favorable for parole.

01:48 - 06.664 Wonderful and then I want to kind of switch gears into something else that's really

01:48 - 09.748 meaningful for me as an attorney with my master's of public health

01:48 - 11.878 my colleague from dauphin county I

01:48 - 16.448 asked you an excellent set of questions senator cam around healthcare

01:48 - 19.388 and access to healthcare and I am just wondering.

01:48 - 22.829 Because we have to care for these individuals that it

01:48 - 26.108 is our job and we take them into into the facilities.

01:48 - 30.988 Clearly there are issues when it comes to getting them to care

01:48 - 34.628 even in the southeast where perhaps care is a little.

01:48 - 36.208 More accessible than

01:48 - 37.828 some of our more rural counties

01:48 - 40.198 but we have them staffing issues

01:48 - 43.300 because when we toured the facility at sci Phoenix and

01:48 - 45.748 we talked to the nurses and people in the medical wing

01:48 - 48.938 they talked about staff having issues and wondering.

01:48 - 51.728 Having to take individuals out for.

01:48 - 52.918 Treatment

01:48 - 54.038 or

01:48 - 55.828 To see the doctors what have you

01:48 - 00.274 and wondering if if implanting all of those things that that then creates suffering

01:49 - 03.538 issues is that part of your staffing issues as well as making sure you have enough

01:49 - 06.448 staff to take individual bulls especially our

01:49 - 08.168 our agent populations

01:49 - 12.838 to their doctor's appointments that are outside the facilities we do not and

01:49 - 15.298 we don't work short in that respect

01:49 - 19.624 so that's where the overtime comes in we would never say oh we can't take this person

01:49 - 21.628 to his appointment because we have no staff

01:49 - 24.748 we ensure that folks who require medical care

01:49 - 27.508 leave and go to their appointments ns

01:49 - 31.648 yes it's a challenge it's a challenge even for our nursing staff we average

01:49 - 34.288 anywhere between ten eleven twelve percent

01:49 - 36.928 vacancy rate for nursing staff it's usually around

01:49 - 38.848 one hundred positions that includes

01:49 - 41.968 lpn as our ends rns as etc

01:49 - 44.338 but with regard to care

01:49 - 48.328 those those aren't issues for us we ensure that if someone has to leave

01:49 - 53.078 and we emergencies come up as well medical emergencies that they leave.

01:49 - 54.998 Absolutely

01:49 - 56.201 no I I.

01:49 - 56.656 I

01:49 - 59.158 Apologize I wasn't oh I'm sorry maybe I didn't understand

01:49 - 01.438 know that you would leave people hanging in terms of

01:50 - 05.344 just that it does create staffing to a concrete staffing shortages or problems when

01:50 - 09.058 you have to factor in especially in the emergency situation sure

01:50 - 10.388 a bright because if

01:50 - 11.158 you're leaving to

01:50 - 12.328 re write to your point

01:50 - 14.098 if people are leaving to take a

01:50 - 16.948 and merge someone having chest pains or what have you then

01:50 - 19.568 yes it could potentially in that way.

01:50 - 20.428 Sure

01:50 - 22.738 and then one of the other things I'd like to ask

01:50 - 25.748 before yielding my time is really specifically

01:50 - 26.398 with

01:50 - 30.388 cancer detection screenings and things like that and specifically

01:50 - 33.868 we are seeing an uptick in general population for

01:50 - 35.098 kids who are detections

01:50 - 37.198 and younger people getting access

01:50 - 39.058 being diagnosed with cancer

01:50 - 40.678 and I am just wondering

01:50 - 43.498 what are we doing in terms of

01:50 - 45.919 cancer screenings and detections and how much

01:50 - 48.848 are we do we know how much we're spending

01:50 - 49.958 on.

01:50 - 52.069 Cancer treatments and maybe cancers that could

01:50 - 54.908 have been caught earlier if we had provided

01:50 - 56.938 we were able to provide an

01:50 - 59.288 earlier screenings or testings.

01:50 - 02.068 While all before I turn it over to deputy amen

01:51 - 04.816 I will say for especially they do this at muncie

01:51 - 07.678 obviously for the women they do at camp hill for the men

01:51 - 09.598 when folks come into our system

01:51 - 13.678 their initial work up they get an initial workup by medical

01:51 - 18.388 and unfortunately we have told people hey you have a serious illness

01:51 - 19.018 right

01:51 - 20.418 right from the door and sometimes

01:51 - 23.368 people are diagnosed with a terminal illness right from the door

01:51 - 26.378 or they have to stay and start treatments

01:51 - 28.828 we had an infirmary at camp hill so

01:51 - 30.988 they they do a really nice job in

01:51 - 33.258 essentially doing that initial medical screening

01:51 - 35.488 deputy Altman couldn't talk specifically about

01:51 - 37.048 we have an oncology unit at

01:51 - 40.528 sci fayette and some other areas where we do focus on can

01:51 - 41.648 related treatment

01:51 - 45.538 yes when we do on site screenings with mobile units for

01:51 - 47.998 mammograms we do cities

01:51 - 49.502 Emma arise

01:51 - 51.148 mammograms obviously done it at

01:51 - 54.088 a month sci muncy and sci Cambridge Springs

01:51 - 55.448 and then we do

01:51 - 58.048 see t scans and an mri scans

01:51 - 00.968 of sci benner utilizing our transportation

01:52 - 05.172 and then if their stats screens that are there are urgent they go out

01:52 - 07.668 and they go out in the community and get their screenings done

01:52 - 09.852 and we do have an oncology unit

01:52 - 10.692 at fayette

01:52 - 13.424 a full-time oncologist as part of the medical

01:52 - 16.062 contract that oversees the patient caseload

01:52 - 19.212 to see what treatments are appropriate for those individuals

01:52 - 21.612 doesn't mean all every individual goes to fe yet

01:52 - 24.532 but they manage all the the inmate population.

01:52 - 27.222 Across our commonwealth in regards to their

01:52 - 28.812 to their medical treatment now

01:52 - 31.032 with oncology there's a lot of

01:52 - 33.192 outpatient services after god for

01:52 - 37.032 radiation because several times a week it could be for five six weeks

01:52 - 39.492 something we're used to when we're

01:52 - 40.362 transporting

01:52 - 44.382 we have our schedule transport teams and I think in earlier talks with my more

01:52 - 47.982 emergency transport teams are two different things normally scheduled team

01:52 - 51.222 they know their trips on any given day working with the healthcare staff

01:52 - 53.372 to get those inmates to their appointments

01:52 - 55.830 and then emergencies they'll take out if we

01:52 - 58.182 have any urgent needs for staff or an inmate.

01:52 - 00.952 They could utilize that as well.

01:53 - 05.802 Thank you I knew my time is up I appreciate your answers to the questions

01:53 - 07.312 thank you.

01:53 - 08.812 Thank you senator

01:53 - 12.682 will now turn over to senator Dutch followed by senator carney.

01:53 - 13.882 Banking chairman

01:53 - 14.980 and I.

01:53 - 15.520 I

01:53 - 18.622 Know the chair touched on this earlier but.

01:53 - 21.562 Article eight section twelve requires.

01:53 - 23.742 Reporting going out for five years

01:53 - 24.942 now in corrections ed

01:53 - 27.672 for example I know you had other explanations for others

01:53 - 29.092 but like corrections at

01:53 - 30.552 that things level funded

01:53 - 33.621 we need to get so we can wrap our heads around it

01:53 - 36.712 and it's a reason it's constitutional requirement.

01:53 - 39.762 Going forward

01:53 - 42.462 we need to have those that information

01:53 - 43.122 we

01:53 - 44.452 Because.

01:53 - 46.722 We're seeing what's coming on the horizon

01:53 - 49.102 and for us to do our job.

01:53 - 49.932 We need

01:53 - 51.652 that information

01:53 - 55.732 and a lot of those you can take historical action accurate or.

01:53 - 57.772 Historical averages.

01:53 - 59.982 The ifo and our.

01:54 - 01.152 Senate

01:54 - 02.362 appropriations

01:54 - 02.862 teams

01:54 - 04.282 have accurately

01:54 - 06.342 projected made those projections

01:54 - 07.552 fortunately

01:54 - 09.852 because that gives us the ability to see what's coming

01:54 - 12.313 and we've been reporting on that but it's

01:54 - 14.802 frustrating when the governor gets up there and says

01:54 - 17.992 just because you say it doesn't make it so.

01:54 - 21.192 While the same things goes for what's put in writing here

01:54 - 22.242 you can't

01:54 - 24.048 just because you're saying it's going to be

01:54 - 27.052 flat funded it's not going to be flat funded.

01:54 - 31.962 The increase in female incarceration.

01:54 - 34.175 Camp hill and muncie

01:54 - 35.392 your projections

01:54 - 38.322 muncie it's about ten percent seventeen percent up at

01:54 - 40.102 Cambridge Springs.

01:54 - 40.992 What

01:54 - 43.222 what's the cause of that.

01:54 - 45.862 Actually we are a population

01:54 - 48.992 I'm not sure where you're pulling this out of the governor's budget book

01:54 - 54.558 okay from twenty twenty it was six inmates from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty

01:54 - 56.592 five they were at twenty one seventy four

01:54 - 58.872 last year twenty one eighty this year

01:54 - 59.802 and

01:54 - 02.172 there have been even some national trends

01:55 - 03.882 with increases in in

01:55 - 05.572 female populations

01:55 - 07.632 so again we have to monitor that

01:55 - 09.022 and.

01:55 - 12.762 I'd be interested in some time at some time finding out what

01:55 - 15.062 what you see as the cause of them because it goes from

01:55 - 19.272 for Cambridge Springs a twenty twenty four a forty five the nine eleven and

01:55 - 20.892 July of last year

01:55 - 24.192 and your projection nine eighty nine at seventeen percent increase

01:55 - 26.112 one thousand thirty four

01:55 - 28.312 and twenty four for muncie.

01:55 - 30.162 One thousand and fifty one

01:55 - 31.932 in two thousand and five and twelve

01:55 - 34.482 twenty nine is about a ten percent increase

01:55 - 38.392 the population in Cambridge is definitely going to increase because.

01:55 - 41.382 We don't have to create a more so they are going to have

01:55 - 43.482 to pee there's only three hundred and

01:55 - 44.652 twelve

01:55 - 45.552 at

01:55 - 47.262 Quianna and

01:55 - 48.852 not even half of those are women

01:55 - 49.752 correct

01:55 - 50.802 but they did

01:55 - 51.402 absorb

01:55 - 53.382 the sd gmp some of that re

01:55 - 53.982 trying to

01:55 - 55.372 invade camp.

01:55 - 58.102 I wish I had some more time here.

01:55 - 59.422 Fed funds it

01:55 - 01.902 you had eighty six million for for

01:56 - 02.892 Smithfield

01:56 - 05.872 about looks like about ten million left of that.

01:56 - 07.402 Twenty three.

01:56 - 08.572 For twenty

01:56 - 10.312 four twenty five.

01:56 - 13.782 For the central office you're down about twelve year projection an

01:56 - 14.992 increase of four

01:56 - 16.252 fourteen million

01:56 - 18.532 what are those funds for.

01:56 - 22.162 I didn't hear what you said that.

01:56 - 24.372 Dolphins of federal funds yeah

01:56 - 28.102 Smithfield had a huge amount it was eighty six point seven.

01:56 - 32.772 Years that is the arpa-e fund the the state and local fiscal relief on

01:56 - 34.422 that eighty six million dollars

01:56 - 37.002 that we received from the opera fund was

01:56 - 37.542 was

01:56 - 38.862 dedicated to Smithfield

01:56 - 42.492 for covert mitigation because they were the intake and quarantine center

01:56 - 45.502 so that's why the money was placed there.

01:56 - 48.052 Okay so there's no need to go back in.

01:56 - 50.052 We're not trying to strike or get a

01:56 - 51.342 recoupment of that

01:56 - 53.592 network we've received that but we don't have

01:56 - 56.782 we're not receiving any arpa-e funds in the future.

01:56 - 00.672 The time's up

01:57 - 02.662 unfortunately but

01:57 - 04.252 thank you.

01:57 - 10.192 Cetera carney followed by center penny cook.

01:57 - 13.882 Thanks madam secretary I wanted to try to circle back.

01:57 - 15.652 Our conversation earlier

01:57 - 16.762 you mentioned that

01:57 - 17.902 your your

01:57 - 20.062 population you deal with are.

01:57 - 22.232 People who have committed crimes in Pennsylvania

01:57 - 22.662 or

01:57 - 24.022 And.

01:57 - 24.972 That's

01:57 - 26.112 understands

01:57 - 26.952 completely

01:57 - 28.002 and it

01:57 - 28.512 sort of

01:57 - 30.562 reminded me of

01:57 - 33.512 when the state police were here the other day we we talked to them about

01:57 - 34.792 traffic stops and

01:57 - 35.932 how they sort of

01:57 - 37.642 dealt with

01:57 - 39.822 basically people's immigration status

01:57 - 43.692 and they the answer there was that they didn't it wasn't an issue for them

01:57 - 47.358 because they didn't have any thing to do with the traffic stop or anything to do with

01:57 - 48.522 with why they were doing it.

01:57 - 51.252 So I guess the first question is do you

01:57 - 54.312 consider people's immigration status who are in your population

01:57 - 55.792 we do not.

01:57 - 57.382 Okay so.

01:57 - 02.172 I appreciated your conversation earlier with senator Haywood and you talked about the

01:58 - 03.582 the issues and the

01:58 - 06.012 difficulties around reentry and it's something we

01:58 - 08.292 we really do understand and we're

01:58 - 10.413 I know in in Delaware county where I'm from we

01:58 - 12.582 spend an awful lot of time with the county folks

01:58 - 13.632 dealing with

01:58 - 15.522 reentry from our county prison which is.

01:58 - 19.042 I understand a totally different scale totally differ anything but this

01:58 - 19.542 but the

01:58 - 21.282 problems are often the same.

01:58 - 24.292 So I guess my my question is.

01:58 - 27.202 In terms of

01:58 - 30.772 when non citizens are leaving state prisons

01:58 - 31.662 and

01:58 - 34.962 my understanding is that they're very often being handed over for

01:58 - 36.642 non judicial wards

01:58 - 40.092 to to ice is that can you comment on that at all.

01:58 - 45.438 I can only comment on if an individual does have a detainer lodged against him those

01:58 - 47.618 are the aunt only people that are turned over to

01:58 - 50.472 judicial detainer or non-judicial detainer

01:58 - 51.132 all

01:58 - 52.372 do.

01:58 - 55.962 No no non judicial detainers the ones that we deal with are

01:58 - 58.452 just administrative detainers they aren't judicial

01:58 - 00.492 judicial warranty me yeah

01:59 - 02.812 no they are not judicial warrants.

01:59 - 04.092 So it

01:59 - 05.082 would they be

01:59 - 08.182 are they civil or criminal administrative

01:59 - 09.672 administrative

01:59 - 13.122 and administrative for it but

01:59 - 16.162 is that something that is generated by.

01:59 - 16.962 The

01:59 - 20.022 agency immigration yes it's an acreage right correct

01:59 - 20.652 yes

01:59 - 25.552 to even though it's not as judicial warrants that is not signed by a judge correct.

01:59 - 30.952 But aren't those I mean immigration is a civil issue it's not a criminal issue.

01:59 - 33.202 Correct.

01:59 - 36.712 It's a civil crime or civil.

01:59 - 42.293 Yeah that.

01:59 - 44.352 Yeah they have they have

01:59 - 47.872 the detainer is for some particular offense.

01:59 - 50.932 Okay.

01:59 - 58.292 Alright well I appreciate the fact that you don't take people's

01:59 - 59.532 immigration status

01:59 - 01.252 your in your population.

02:00 - 03.907 I don't quite understand that

02:00 - 05.152 either.

02:00 - 10.572 That is sort of the idea that non judice warrants or

02:00 - 12.402 that administrative warrants are enough

02:00 - 13.002 that's it

02:00 - 14.452 but that's.

02:00 - 15.822 Okay we're going to probably

02:00 - 16.962 agree to disagree on this

02:00 - 18.592 thank you.

02:00 - 20.472 Thank you senator

02:00 - 23.262 just a point of clarification it is a federal crime

02:00 - 25.332 under federal code

02:00 - 27.072 and secondarily

02:00 - 28.662 every facility

02:00 - 31.025 when they are doing an intake I'm an individual

02:00 - 32.969 and you run that individual and you're doing your

02:00 - 36.252 background check whatever you need to do if an ice detainer pops up

02:00 - 39.462 you may not even know necessarily what the extra tenant taner is

02:00 - 41.920 they may have already actually gone through the court

02:00 - 44.712 system and have a deportation order already in place

02:00 - 45.792 and

02:00 - 47.722 for other offenses

02:00 - 50.854 but they're basically putting a note in the system that

02:00 - 53.442 hey this is an individual that we're seeking that that

02:00 - 55.242 that they have not been able to fine

02:00 - 58.252 despite already have gone through the judicial process.

02:00 - 00.982 Just wanted to clarify.

02:01 - 03.232 Alright.

02:01 - 04.452 Up next we have

02:01 - 06.762 a penny cook followed by center Phillips hill.

02:01 - 08.842 Thank you mr chair.

02:01 - 10.312 Excuse me

02:01 - 12.282 how many tablets and

02:01 - 17.272 do the inmates have access to to access email or maybe two.

02:01 - 21.562 Research if they're going for their degree or.

02:01 - 24.462 Computers while current

02:01 - 26.602 while computers are separate.

02:01 - 28.062 If you could breakdown yep

02:01 - 31.242 so currently we just talked about the.

02:01 - 35.382 Eventually every inmate will get a tablet currently they purchase tablets

02:01 - 38.592 so if an inmate has funds on his account he can purchase a tablet

02:01 - 41.262 we have kiosks on every housing unit

02:01 - 44.042 they can go to the kiosk as they can charge their tablet

02:01 - 46.362 they can send emails even if they don't have a tablet

02:01 - 48.552 they can send emails from the kiosk

02:01 - 50.961 do you monitor all those emails and phone calls

02:01 - 53.502 that are going in and out of your present we do

02:01 - 56.742 you do and what is I would imagine that's a lot of

02:01 - 59.297 cloud storage space cause I would imagine that

02:01 - 01.662 you need to store them from some amount of time

02:02 - 02.992 what.

02:02 - 09.574 Spending on cloud storage as well as personnel to to review those emails.

02:02 - 13.625 Well when you talk about cl there's multiple areas if

02:02 - 17.094 you're just referring to that we can get back to you on

02:02 - 20.159 on just storage for those purposes sure if that's what

02:02 - 22.644 you're referring to but you can get back to me on that

02:02 - 24.834 what's the amount of

02:02 - 27.084 staffing that you're spending

02:02 - 28.374 to review those

02:02 - 32.254 emails and phone calls or use seeing an AI program.

02:02 - 33.174 Summit

02:02 - 35.776 this combination of both we have an a

02:02 - 37.644 large analytics division

02:02 - 39.334 we have phone monitors

02:02 - 42.684 we also threw our current vendors they

02:02 - 43.864 also have

02:02 - 44.694 systems

02:02 - 47.502 and when we talk about the tablets that identify

02:02 - 49.704 key phrases and words and things like that

02:02 - 50.484 and that

02:02 - 51.024 we

02:02 - 54.534 Primarily through our bureau of investigations and intelligence we have a

02:02 - 59.010 large analytics division that actually monitors a lot of that as one how big is that

02:02 - 02.004 analytics division I can get this I don't have the staffing

02:03 - 03.184 okay

02:03 - 05.222 but I can get it to you if you could give me

02:03 - 07.164 the staffing in the cost of that intellect

02:03 - 07.794 linux

02:03 - 09.124 that would be great

02:03 - 12.304 and these tablets that they're getting how much of the tablets.

02:03 - 14.004 These are all things that were

02:03 - 16.554 kind of procurement worthy but those are not

02:03 - 18.383 all the ones in the procure for Cameron

02:03 - 22.554 and make him buy those states not subsidizing that in any way are they

02:03 - 24.064 do you know the current

02:03 - 25.804 hundred and fifty.

02:03 - 30.214 And are those subsidized by the state.

02:03 - 32.094 They are not a team okay

02:03 - 33.424 great thank you

02:03 - 34.314 I yield my time

02:03 - 34.854 to chair

02:03 - 38.640 and nineteen thousand have tablets now we have the number of the inmates I'm sorry

02:03 - 41.034 nineteen thousand inmates have tablets currently

02:03 - 44.454 out of the forty thousand out of thirty nine thousand yeah

02:03 - 45.694 ok thank you

02:03 - 46.284 and

02:03 - 46.704 one

02:03 - 49.805 I'm sorry one more question I'm sorry mr chair and

02:03 - 52.594 Internet do they pay for the Internet access.

02:03 - 53.394 We.

02:03 - 55.164 Know just the messaging

02:03 - 56.214 just the messaging

02:03 - 57.784 okay thank you.

02:03 - 02.374 Up next we have center Phillips hill followed by senator Vogel.

02:04 - 05.074 Dr Harry

02:04 - 07.254 with the closure of Sci-Fi

02:04 - 10.497 rock view and q had a boot camp.

02:04 - 15.064 I received at an inquiry from a constituent

02:04 - 19.107 who indicated that inmates were required to either destroy

02:04 - 23.614 their personal property or pay out of pocket shipping costs

02:04 - 28.644 and then they shared an article that fad in one reported case

02:04 - 31.714 the shipping costs were one hundred and forty one dollars

02:04 - 32.824 and that place

02:04 - 33.414 that

02:04 - 36.144 inmates account in deficit

02:04 - 37.294 so

02:04 - 43.350 Given that these transfers were the result of a state initiated closure decision did

02:04 - 45.817 that department budget for covering the full

02:04 - 49.684 cost of inmate property transfers and if not.

02:04 - 54.034 What would be the projected fiscal impact of doing so

02:04 - 57.184 in the event that there are future facility

02:04 - 58.324 closures.

02:04 - 01.314 Well first of all we

02:05 - 04.704 inmates are very familiar with property compliance

02:05 - 07.554 and they know that all of their property has to fit in either

02:05 - 11.184 four records center boxes or to record centre boxes in a foot locker

02:05 - 12.024 so

02:05 - 14.484 This is for any transfer we don't

02:05 - 17.424 we try we always if an inmate transferring or one from

02:05 - 19.434 from one facility to another

02:05 - 23.514 that their property goes with them on the bus when they transfer so when you say it's

02:05 - 24.384 factoring in

02:05 - 28.254 are they there typically because of a decision made

02:05 - 30.234 by by d o c or

02:05 - 33.564 there's misconduct or there's disciplinary action

02:05 - 36.564 classification they could be complete with classification and then

02:05 - 38.394 transfer to their home facility

02:05 - 40.709 it could be for a program hmm that the unmade

02:05 - 43.434 wants to do or needs I mean there's lots of reasons

02:05 - 44.514 to get them closer to

02:05 - 45.954 him or her closer to home

02:05 - 49.162 but anyhow they were aware of those those roles we

02:05 - 51.534 put out memos regarding the rules they're aware that

02:05 - 54.714 if they exceed property compliance that's their choice

02:05 - 56.945 many of them even though they know the rules

02:05 - 59.244 will choose to exceed the property compliance

02:05 - 01.594 they know the role of ship or destroy

02:06 - 05.424 we did actually for this closure which we haven't done in the past

02:06 - 08.634 we assured that they could maintain their same pay rate

02:06 - 10.884 and we hadn't done that in prior closures

02:06 - 11.934 so

02:06 - 14.636 That that was another factor because we did and we

02:06 - 17.484 didn't have to but we did because of like you said it was

02:06 - 20.958 our decision to to close the facility that would be

02:06 - 24.324 something I guess if if if we were to consider down the road

02:06 - 27.624 I don't know the total cost for shipping from

02:06 - 28.984 the closures

02:06 - 30.924 hundred and fifty four thousand it wasn't

02:06 - 33.204 a huge amount actually so and

02:06 - 35.304 people would call Hannah are relatively new

02:06 - 37.473 in the systems and they're not going to have a lot of

02:06 - 40.374 property primarily would have been my guesses rock view you

02:06 - 41.884 individuals

02:06 - 44.124 very good thank you very much you're welcome

02:06 - 45.814 thank you mr chairman.

02:06 - 50.734 Thank you senator up next we have center vulgar followed by senator brown.

02:06 - 52.374 Thank you

02:06 - 54.655 madam secretary in this year's current budget

02:06 - 57.024 we gave the department additional resources

02:06 - 58.354 to increase work.

02:06 - 01.284 Money to the sexual offender assessment board

02:07 - 03.518 to be able to pay for more assessments

02:07 - 07.164 of these additional resources help the board and one of the results machines

02:07 - 08.284 far.

02:07 - 11.374 Yeah Jim can answer that.

02:07 - 13.494 Thank you so much for

02:07 - 16.134 adding that it increased the fee or

02:07 - 16.648 the

02:07 - 20.094 defeated they were able to get is from three fifty to five hundred

02:07 - 22.014 and they do very

02:07 - 26.550 valuable reports for the board so that we have a good understanding of sex offenders

02:07 - 28.774 before we make a release decision

02:07 - 31.764 and that increase then allowed them to

02:07 - 36.994 keep up with the professionals that do the assessments so that was a very welcome

02:07 - 40.201 addition to the budget and it it's underway and it's it's

02:07 - 41.574 working well so far thank you

02:07 - 45.954 but I also see a decrease in the appropriation for this year so

02:07 - 47.674 why is the decrease.

02:07 - 50.914 We know.

02:07 - 51.174 That

02:07 - 54.354 there was a couple ity requests to them that they had

02:07 - 56.784 the sad at was fulfilled in the last year's budget

02:07 - 00.444 that's why you're seeing a decrease in their in their appropriation request

02:08 - 01.044 okay

02:08 - 01.584 okay

02:08 - 03.454 thank you thank you very much chairman.

02:08 - 04.794 Thank you senator

02:08 - 07.744 senator brown followed by senator St.

02:08 - 09.904 Thank you mr chairman.

02:08 - 11.644 You're almost there.

02:08 - 13.204 So.

02:08 - 15.444 The instant I know you mentioned a little bit

02:08 - 20.044 we spoke about safety some of the body cameras and things of that nature

02:08 - 21.744 but the institution

02:08 - 24.544 in institution violence rate.

02:08 - 28.084 The past few years has been the highest it's ever been

02:08 - 33.114 and I think it's an eight percent increase six point one x point one okay

02:08 - 34.224 and

02:08 - 35.754 what is the department doing

02:08 - 38.974 to reduce the number of salts

02:08 - 40.344 and keep inmates

02:08 - 41.464 and staff

02:08 - 41.934 safe

02:08 - 43.444 right.

02:08 - 45.774 Staff safety and meet safety is

02:08 - 47.154 very important to us

02:08 - 49.774 these are trends that we're seeing nationwide

02:08 - 51.564 Dodgers akin eggs actually

02:08 - 54.924 spearheading are violence we put together a violence reduction committee

02:08 - 58.554 to look at various areas and how we can reduce violence and so

02:08 - 00.504 he can share a little bit about some of the.

02:09 - 04.494 Avenues that we're exploring and that we have already implemented regarding

02:09 - 05.794 violence reduction

02:09 - 10.500 yeah what the secretary said we we were not unique in Pennsylvania when you look at

02:09 - 13.314 violence increases across question systems

02:09 - 14.154 on

02:09 - 16.074 What we recognized

02:09 - 17.734 coming out of the coven.

02:09 - 18.324 Of

02:09 - 21.484 The violence started to rise and we.

02:09 - 24.594 Got a violence task

02:09 - 26.184 force together that

02:09 - 27.984 consists of sixty six

02:09 - 29.934 staff members from across

02:09 - 32.334 institutions and across classifications

02:09 - 37.734 to breakdown or violence on different categories you know inmate on the mood

02:09 - 39.594 made on staff and

02:09 - 40.734 each of these

02:09 - 42.144 subcommittees looked at

02:09 - 44.604 and made recommendations based on

02:09 - 48.934 the study on why violence happens what's happened to our system.

02:09 - 50.184 Since that time

02:09 - 52.894 we've taken several different initiatives

02:09 - 56.404 because of violence primarily surprisingly

02:09 - 57.814 has to do with

02:09 - 59.134 inmate perceived

02:09 - 00.804 disrespect as the biggest

02:10 - 01.954 category.

02:10 - 03.084 Cellmate

02:10 - 04.204 and kubota build.

02:10 - 08.844 So one of the things were a couple of the initiatives we've looked at was

02:10 - 10.464 the vowels prevention

02:10 - 12.354 looking at the front end loading

02:10 - 16.164 that programming as opposed to waiting until they get closer or a minimum

02:10 - 18.144 to see if that affects the inmates

02:10 - 18.924 violence

02:10 - 21.114 and were were starting to pilot that

02:10 - 22.044 and look at the

02:10 - 23.254 row also

02:10 - 27.870 rolled out the escalation training for all our staff because one of the things after

02:10 - 30.354 filling a lot of the vacancies governor go van

02:10 - 33.654 we have a lot of inexperienced staff who actually started

02:10 - 35.844 when the institutions were locked on

02:10 - 36.984 so that

02:10 - 38.514 that the verbal

02:10 - 40.084 de escalation

02:10 - 43.624 is something we've changed at went worth different.

02:10 - 45.294 Program for that

02:10 - 46.974 we've already started

02:10 - 49.104 door two thousand and twenty five we've

02:10 - 53.394 trained over seventeen hundred staff in the academy and now we're rolling that

02:10 - 55.204 to the institutions.

02:10 - 57.514 So

02:10 - 01.924 Yeah we've had several different policies and with

02:11 - 05.064 things as we went with a different lock load of our violence

02:11 - 06.414 was people getting hit

02:11 - 08.574 with a master aux

02:11 - 13.974 so we found a lighter locked it's half or a third of the weight of the old lock

02:11 - 18.244 that's in it's final phase of being implemented across the board.

02:11 - 20.434 You know and then.

02:11 - 24.474 It's something we're constantly looking at an

02:11 - 26.574 trying to see best practices and what

02:11 - 28.564 evidence based.

02:11 - 30.504 Practices we can implement.

02:11 - 33.914 Great and I know we're short on time is there any report

02:11 - 36.904 that you can offer to us based on those recommendations

02:11 - 38.784 that were started compiled from that.

02:11 - 41.304 We can put something together for you oh yeah.

02:11 - 43.024 We already have a list

02:11 - 45.984 some of those recommendations absolutely nice to see us we

02:11 - 46.764 very much

02:11 - 47.724 thank you mr chairman

02:11 - 48.964 thank you senator

02:11 - 50.554 senator St.

02:11 - 53.164 Thank you mr chairman.

02:11 - 57.036 Good morning morning.

02:11 - 00.414 One now I just want to say I think it's great that you

02:12 - 04.914 that the department is planning to expand the use of the little scandinavia model.

02:12 - 06.484 I think it's.

02:12 - 08.424 From observations growing up it

02:12 - 10.704 seems like there are a lot of benefits and

02:12 - 13.984 I'm glad to hear that you're looking to expand it I think.

02:12 - 15.294 Some of the socialization

02:12 - 17.254 things were people before people when they were

02:12 - 18.024 Alfie

02:12 - 19.674 and it sounds like

02:12 - 21.384 you've seen positive results

02:12 - 22.654 inside of the

02:12 - 24.874 inside of the department as well.

02:12 - 28.704 On a on a relate on and on another topic

02:12 - 30.034 and.

02:12 - 32.644 It's my understanding that as

02:12 - 36.324 inmates age the cost of care for them tends to go up as that

02:12 - 37.864 is that accurate.

02:12 - 38.724 Yes.

02:12 - 41.154 Yes that's correct then the average the

02:12 - 42.744 average age for those

02:12 - 48.274 in skilled care personal care is about six hundred and fifteen dollars a day.

02:12 - 49.344 Compared to the

02:12 - 51.534 general population in may of one ninety seven

02:12 - 55.854 but the the additional costs beyond if they're in a skilled care personal care unit.

02:12 - 57.804 Normally we see is

02:12 - 00.548 the national institute of correction identifies

02:13 - 03.084 age fifty as elderly and corrections

02:13 - 05.394 and they use that definition

02:13 - 07.464 and what you see is normally

02:13 - 09.774 medication expenses about one and a half times

02:13 - 12.804 one hundred and fifty percent more for those that are over fifty

02:13 - 15.244 and the increase use of hospitalizations

02:13 - 16.854 outpatient procedures

02:13 - 18.844 infirmary care.

02:13 - 19.584 Just like our

02:13 - 22.044 our families in the community as they get older

02:13 - 23.399 they use healthcare more

02:13 - 27.713 and just for context are over fifty population right now is eleven thousand

02:13 - 29.604 ninety individual jewels and it's

02:13 - 32.034 gone up steadily about three hundred per year

02:13 - 35.944 last year it was about two hundred inmates so it continues to rise.

02:13 - 38.964 Do you think that there could be savings

02:13 - 40.314 if if the

02:13 - 42.894 the legislature were to expand opportunities for

02:13 - 44.724 a geriatric parole

02:13 - 45.994 and

02:13 - 47.944 or compassionate release.

02:13 - 51.290 For compassionate release right now we average about

02:13 - 54.504 fifteen a year last year we had about thirteen cases that

02:13 - 56.574 were released on compassionate release

02:13 - 58.654 and we

02:13 - 00.654 we we talked earlier about

02:14 - 05.304 the Pearl pieces probably the easier ps because yes putting them up for parole

02:14 - 07.224 identifying them in

02:14 - 10.644 the complicated p this is obviously where to put them

02:14 - 14.724 and we have done a few things in meeting with our sister agencies

02:14 - 16.944 and putting together work groups to see

02:14 - 19.684 how can we tackle this issue collectively

02:14 - 22.194 obviously the cost shifts from us to

02:14 - 24.414 other folks in on

02:14 - 28.314 in the community and we are we're making

02:14 - 29.244 I would say a

02:14 - 32.524 minimal progress but we're at least having those conversations

02:14 - 37.219 and we recently put together a work group to really tackle who can we take on

02:14 - 38.874 we did an rf eye to see

02:14 - 41.274 who we've won individual said they

02:14 - 43.524 kind of take struggling nursing homes and

02:14 - 44.571 and

02:14 - 47.036 and really rebuild them with this population

02:14 - 49.854 because we know we have the population to send them

02:14 - 52.074 but it's a matter of just getting

02:14 - 54.924 getting it staffing is an issue for a lot of these

02:14 - 57.864 nursing homes and personal care facilities but

02:14 - 59.454 that's the complicated piece

02:14 - 00.114 when the

02:15 - 01.797 amount of time but one thank you for the work

02:15 - 03.741 you're doing in that space I think it's important

02:15 - 06.334 I think this is an area where we could reduce.

02:15 - 07.594 Government spending

02:15 - 08.904 and at the same time

02:15 - 09.414 at.

02:15 - 11.074 It mates.

02:15 - 12.354 Who are no longer a

02:15 - 13.644 risk out of the system

02:15 - 17.094 and I will tell you I think that some of those costs end up

02:15 - 21.534 being boring like for many aging people by their families if they were able to

02:15 - 23.828 be paroled and we created the appropriate trucker

02:15 - 25.812 so I look forward to working with you on the issue

02:15 - 28.234 and I thank you for your work.

02:15 - 29.004 Senator if

02:15 - 30.234 I could just add when

02:15 - 32.304 we were talking about medical parole

02:15 - 32.934 and

02:15 - 33.324 the

02:15 - 37.524 the individual inmates the the five or six inmates that might get out of the ten or

02:15 - 38.004 twenty

02:15 - 41.394 it's these really marginal costs you're going to see the

02:15 - 42.864 fifty dollars a day

02:15 - 44.004 because of

02:15 - 47.104 we're not changing our staffing patterns we're not changing a lot do we do

02:15 - 51.480 we needed more on the largest scale when we start talking about we can get sixty

02:15 - 53.664 outlet and we can close a skilled care unit

02:15 - 56.844 then we start to see your personnel expenses and other things draw

02:15 - 00.504 that that's the kind of impact we need with medical parole is

02:16 - 03.614 is in those bigger numbers and we have the numbers it's just a matter of

02:16 - 05.104 where replacement the community

02:16 - 07.710 that's why we're working with the other agencies to try to get

02:16 - 10.044 a better solution so we we can move forward

02:16 - 11.344 to get those kinds of

02:16 - 12.834 those individuals out

02:16 - 15.134 and then they would have that kind of fiscal impact

02:16 - 18.004 well thank you that's exactly what I was getting at and I'm glad you

02:16 - 20.314 drove that point home thank you.

02:16 - 22.684 Thank you senator

02:16 - 23.934 I'll close out with you today

02:16 - 26.764 I'm sure everyone's getting hungry up there sitting here all morning

02:16 - 29.644 just a couple of topics first and.

02:16 - 31.590 Obviously you're very involved with

02:16 - 33.508 your peers across the country province partier

02:16 - 36.934 national association and this is kind of building off.

02:16 - 38.374 One

02:16 - 39.714 people bringing up that there

02:16 - 41.994 could be about six thousand excess beds

02:16 - 46.614 and also having a complete understanding that the flexibility that you need

02:16 - 49.914 given a variety of circumstances needs to be there.

02:16 - 52.174 That being said

02:16 - 57.024 are there standards in place on like a percentage basis the guidelines that

02:16 - 57.744 they that

02:16 - 00.441 or standards that people say you know it's probably

02:17 - 03.274 good that you have a seven or eight percent.

02:17 - 04.794 Capacity

02:17 - 09.244 fluctuation ability to address those kinds of things

02:17 - 13.204 because without people having a general baseline to look at.

02:17 - 18.744 What is the appropriate amount of capacity versus what leads you to the decision to

02:17 - 20.398 potentially close a unit or add a unit

02:17 - 23.314 depending on where you're at with that capacity.

02:17 - 27.154 Correct we actually do look ad

02:17 - 30.060 and it's it's changed over the years emergency

02:17 - 32.604 capacity operating capacity and all of that

02:17 - 34.074 a good example is

02:17 - 37.494 of a prison like camp hill there was an old section

02:17 - 41.674 that we closed down that entire old section removed the staffing.

02:17 - 42.534 It's just

02:17 - 44.844 doesn't meet accreditation stay standard

02:17 - 47.994 so even though that facilities and operational facility

02:17 - 50.094 we we don't count those beds anymore

02:17 - 55.864 but if in an emergency some drastic situation if we had to I guess we could

02:17 - 00.150 but we do look at all of those capacities we can certainly provide you with the

02:18 - 02.304 numbers if that's if that would be helpful

02:18 - 03.744 understanding though

02:18 - 05.244 that each facility

02:18 - 06.784 has different.

02:18 - 11.034 Measures for that operational capacity and what that looks like.

02:18 - 13.134 It would be helpful

02:18 - 15.114 because obviously there is a trigger that makes you

02:18 - 17.604 look at it that leads to discuss short on potentially

02:18 - 18.894 potential closures

02:18 - 22.764 and there's factors that lead to say we need a new facility to replace an existing.

02:18 - 23.394 I

02:18 - 24.449 I get that so

02:18 - 25.194 I think

02:18 - 27.974 the more information we can share them at that the better

02:18 - 28.554 and

02:18 - 30.414 second part in this is probably a question

02:18 - 32.074 not only.

02:18 - 33.684 For the department but also for

02:18 - 34.584 the chairman

02:18 - 37.764 and obviously there were questions today about

02:18 - 41.704 what's potentially available out there for inmates as they.

02:18 - 44.657 Are leaving facilities be reintegrated back into the

02:18 - 45.324 community

02:18 - 49.164 obviously there's been a tremendous amount of work over the last

02:18 - 53.664 twenty thirty years related to reentry and step down programs and

02:18 - 55.104 and things of that nature

02:18 - 57.364 the one thing I'm very critically

02:18 - 58.524 concerned about though

02:18 - 01.294 I know it's very difficult given.

02:19 - 04.140 The stigma of the type of of fences individuals

02:19 - 06.694 may have or how long they were incarcerated.

02:19 - 10.954 In terms of of job skills job placement

02:19 - 13.614 but ultimately as much as we hear.

02:19 - 16.204 The importance of recidivism

02:19 - 18.701 and we all want to lower our recidivism rates whether

02:19 - 21.054 the state level the candlelit level or whatnot

02:19 - 24.924 one of the absolute key core components of that success typically is

02:19 - 28.128 someone's ability to be able to take care of themselves

02:19 - 30.684 independently and the more we're able to achieve that

02:19 - 32.484 the less likely they are to come through

02:19 - 33.894 revolving door fashion

02:19 - 38.190 show could you talk a little bit about what's going on in the facility or the work

02:19 - 42.964 being done as they're transitioning out of the facility that's lending towards

02:19 - 43.644 do

02:19 - 45.024 A job at the end

02:19 - 45.714 and I

02:19 - 48.179 though I know it's difficult for some employers I

02:19 - 51.084 know there's been an uptick in entities out there

02:19 - 53.484 that sometimes go out of their way to give.

02:19 - 55.584 Prior offenders a chance

02:19 - 57.804 and might take more than other so

02:19 - 59.544 would love to hear your thoughts on that

02:19 - 02.784 I'll do a couple of quick things and then I'll turn it over to e d s Evans

02:20 - 06.504 we really have an emphasis on

02:20 - 10.524 workforce development on the inside we have a workforce development specialist

02:20 - 14.364 a good example is the hire a executive order from the governor

02:20 - 19.590 one of the components of that was to provide folks leaving the system re entrance

02:20 - 21.774 with opportunities for commonwealth employment

02:20 - 23.584 so we entered.

02:20 - 28.734 Into a pilot with pen dodd and we high they've hired one of our reinsurance

02:20 - 31.434 and they so they have a state job good benefits

02:20 - 35.124 they just hire them I think it was September of twenty twenty five so

02:20 - 36.624 wherever anytime

02:20 - 39.094 across the state anytime we get.

02:20 - 40.854 A job openings for penndot

02:20 - 42.774 we send those out to parole and

02:20 - 44.634 facilities for folks who are leaving

02:20 - 49.234 correctional industry this is another opportunity we are we've seen great expansion

02:20 - 53.094 at Cambridge Springs they have an optical lab for anybody who has a travel there

02:20 - 55.704 it's a wonderful opportunity for these

02:20 - 57.084 women to learn

02:20 - 58.674 hands on skills

02:20 - 02.034 making glasses and then they expanded that to

02:21 - 06.474 include like a doctor's office and now they get experience with the doctor who comes in

02:21 - 09.384 and we're expanding that program to sci Chester

02:21 - 11.004 so those are just some

02:21 - 13.104 small examples of

02:21 - 16.494 in addition to all the vocational programming that we offer but

02:21 - 19.854 feel free to chime in with some extra things that we do sure

02:21 - 23.374 in all of our facilities we offer vocational

02:21 - 24.514 trades.

02:21 - 25.944 Over twenty five

02:21 - 27.234 locations we offer

02:21 - 28.674 and certifications

02:21 - 30.384 and the ncc our

02:21 - 33.564 certification for our trades the plumbing masonry

02:21 - 34.714 welding

02:21 - 35.854 and

02:21 - 38.840 some other things that we're doing that recently

02:21 - 41.484 started is certified recovery specialist

02:21 - 45.814 we have inmates trained in eleven of our facilities so far

02:21 - 48.197 with plans to continue that into two thousand

02:21 - 51.184 and twenty six and that is leading to employment.

02:21 - 53.784 On the outside that is at peer to peer

02:21 - 54.894 mentoring

02:21 - 55.734 concept

02:21 - 58.884 as well as our cps workers we have cps workers trained

02:21 - 01.764 in every facility and modified peer specialist authority

02:22 - 05.634 and that leads to employment in the community

02:22 - 08.104 our work forest development coordinator

02:22 - 09.684 she meets with their

02:22 - 14.334 pa restaurant and lodging association does presentations for them

02:22 - 16.174 as well as.

02:22 - 18.814 Other presentations to employers

02:22 - 24.654 educating them on the benefits of hiring formerly incarcerated individuals and

02:22 - 26.544 we're just trying to look at

02:22 - 29.502 Avenue possible to educate employers

02:22 - 30.712 in the community

02:22 - 32.422 as well as.

02:22 - 36.472 Train our inmates and provide them the best possible.

02:22 - 39.912 Support and tools that they need

02:22 - 42.856 to be successful in the community but we would be

02:22 - 46.042 remiss if we didn't bring a pi prison enhancement

02:22 - 46.422 in

02:22 - 48.232 Prison enhancement.

02:22 - 49.752 Industry

02:22 - 51.112 slight.

02:22 - 53.742 Prison industry enhancement I was like wait a minute

02:22 - 54.972 that doesn't specify

02:22 - 56.412 of any out

02:22 - 57.072 of

02:22 - 58.872 Our correctional industries

02:22 - 00.942 director actually came from another state

02:23 - 05.682 that where she implemented pie and that's where individuals can get a prevailing wage

02:23 - 10.372 and they can certainly pay back and finds costs restitutions

02:23 - 11.572 certainly with

02:23 - 15.792 victims that that is a huge benefit because they can pay that back

02:23 - 20.172 and so we're excited about the opportunity to perhaps partner with pie

02:23 - 24.522 I think it's like forty six states have forty first thirty five states

02:23 - 28.482 have pi so we're a little behind the eight ball with pie and we really

02:23 - 31.992 we really want to see that is something that we can get across the finish line

02:23 - 33.472 to provide

02:23 - 35.659 our individuals not only with skills and job

02:23 - 38.112 skills because you're one hundred per cent correct

02:23 - 41.359 folks want to leave with a good job and that's one of

02:23 - 43.872 the key factors that will keep them from coming back

02:23 - 44.352 in.

02:23 - 46.042 A few numbers are

02:23 - 47.898 probably generated one hundred and twenty five

02:23 - 49.962 million dollars for victims and their fan families

02:23 - 52.992 thirty seven million dollars for inmates families

02:23 - 54.342 for support for them

02:23 - 56.352 three hundred and ninety million

02:23 - 58.422 for do you see room and board

02:23 - 02.112 in one hundred and thirty eight million in state and federal taxes so

02:24 - 04.752 it does generate a lot and provides a lot for you

02:24 - 05.902 outside of just

02:24 - 06.459 just

02:24 - 08.202 the inmate skills reentry

02:24 - 11.812 but it's also with those privy yearly wages be able to offset.

02:24 - 13.692 A lot of those expenses you have

02:24 - 16.332 and we cannot compete if there's job there's a there's a

02:24 - 17.292 committee

02:24 - 19.602 has to review any any pi participation

02:24 - 22.192 to ensure that we're not taking away jobs from accumulating

02:24 - 23.652 this is a win win

02:24 - 24.852 all the way around so

02:24 - 26.962 I hope we can push this through.

02:24 - 28.572 I'm assuming to

02:24 - 29.262 do.

02:24 - 34.602 English as a second language or or getting gd is also part of this

02:24 - 37.082 this equation for those who may not have a high school

02:24 - 37.812 diploma

02:24 - 38.352 s

02:24 - 40.932 Or we have actually were eight percent higher than

02:24 - 44.722 the national average for three edi it was eighty two percent

02:24 - 47.022 eighty two percent graduate or ged

02:24 - 48.792 or call Emmanuel secondary diploma

02:24 - 49.452 German

02:24 - 50.082 sir

02:24 - 51.012 I've been going into

02:24 - 53.315 institutions now I started two thousand and

02:24 - 55.512 seven so nineteen years that I've been kind of

02:24 - 56.772 associated with the board

02:24 - 57.642 and

02:24 - 59.962 we have seen so much improvement.

02:25 - 02.922 In terms of reentry in terms of job training

02:25 - 05.472 in terms of cognitive intervention

02:25 - 07.072 within the institution.

02:25 - 08.382 Also in

02:25 - 10.462 in the field services

02:25 - 14.572 and it comes off in terms of recidivism so if you look at.

02:25 - 16.272 Ten years ago we were returning

02:25 - 20.722 over ten thousand individuals as parole violators and we've cut that in half

02:25 - 23.652 but we haven't seen re arrest rates go up higher

02:25 - 25.872 or rearrest rates if you look ten years ago

02:25 - 28.162 are also down twenty percent.

02:25 - 29.632 So we're doing.

02:25 - 31.452 A lot of good work

02:25 - 33.342 this department is and

02:25 - 36.102 and the parole board trying to make the best decisions we can

02:25 - 39.582 and so all this investment does seem and

02:25 - 41.302 it does desist.

02:25 - 43.729 We look at these big numbers a lot of times we say

02:25 - 46.392 fifty seven percent boy that's a crazy big number

02:25 - 48.922 but if you look at violent offenders.

02:25 - 50.542 It.

02:25 - 52.302 They come back for new violent offense

02:25 - 54.442 it's one in ten

02:25 - 56.842 and that's probably pretty good.

02:25 - 00.042 Sex offenders one in one hundred come back when the new sex offense

02:26 - 00.822 so

02:26 - 03.522 We're actually making some progress even though

02:26 - 05.577 it's a difficult thing and just a big budget

02:26 - 07.332 so we certainly appreciate the efforts that

02:26 - 10.272 you guys have done and Jr I one Jr I too

02:26 - 12.672 and I think a lot of it has made a difference so

02:26 - 13.302 does doing

02:26 - 18.102 good and so people understand I mean I can go back just even just ten years ago or.

02:26 - 19.662 I'm in my tenth year now

02:26 - 22.506 I think around the time I I came into the general assembly

02:26 - 24.972 we were still running beds basement other state right

02:26 - 26.194 right.

02:26 - 29.598 You know and whether it's on the state level or on the county low I figured the

02:26 - 31.512 county level weirdo thirteen one hundred

02:26 - 33.293 people in a prison that partial

02:26 - 34.632 at nine hundred

02:26 - 37.016 right but now when you see the numbers and the

02:26 - 40.242 sheer fact we're even having capacity discussions or

02:26 - 41.362 shows that

02:26 - 44.322 the that that revolving doors and turning it

02:26 - 46.452 like it was before so

02:26 - 48.612 I appreciate your efforts on that

02:26 - 52.242 greatly too and in long term hopefully that the that

02:26 - 52.902 the only

02:26 - 55.522 lens to safer communities

02:26 - 58.272 people leaning on their feet and being productive citizens

02:26 - 01.362 but also eases on hopefully ease on the taxpayer to

02:27 - 02.322 do

02:27 - 05.502 The finals more and more kind of budgetary details stuff just to

02:27 - 08.439 the clothes out related questions first is

02:27 - 09.702 one I just picked up on

02:27 - 12.042 when you mentioned room and board costs

02:27 - 14.345 what is the charge per day that gets to assign to

02:27 - 18.102 someone in your facilities I'm assuming there's a rate

02:27 - 19.062 for their

02:27 - 21.081 in in their stay when you referred to room and board

02:27 - 24.502 but that said if they have the pi program there.

02:27 - 25.062 There

02:27 - 27.642 are currently no room for George okay

02:27 - 30.222 I'm just curious about that cause I do a lot of counties

02:27 - 32.322 were involved in that and where there's

02:27 - 34.257 I think it was ten dollars per day that'd

02:27 - 36.522 be signed and that's a cost they would carry

02:27 - 38.112 and have to pay back so.

02:27 - 39.502 I.

02:27 - 41.482 You mentioned

02:27 - 42.012 that you

02:27 - 45.102 that you aren't a revenue generating agency earlier

02:27 - 46.752 he was senator Phillips hill

02:27 - 49.612 ude asked about restricted accounts

02:27 - 50.752 but the clarify

02:27 - 55.192 you guys do receive revenues from I believe count county training fees.

02:27 - 56.292 The

02:27 - 58.552 parole supervision fees.

02:27 - 00.982 Inmate phone calls

02:28 - 03.552 and farm program are those

02:28 - 05.052 is that correct or not correct

02:28 - 07.192 nodded made phone calls.

02:28 - 09.282 Those are not making a commission on the calls

02:28 - 10.812 that he used to

02:28 - 12.952 do and then when the fcc.

02:28 - 14.492 Discussion about that over the years

02:28 - 15.822 court cases and stuff

02:28 - 18.042 and you are correct on those we will do

02:28 - 19.392 ok in that acid

02:28 - 23.442 yes and do you have a special fund for the manufacturing manufacturing fund

02:28 - 25.332 yes there an internal service fund

02:28 - 25.932 there

02:28 - 27.682 they don't get an appropriation.

02:28 - 30.942 They just get spending authority from the general assembly

02:28 - 32.182 so they're.

02:28 - 35.022 There so they are restricted accounts yes

02:28 - 35.652 okay

02:28 - 36.612 and

02:28 - 38.872 as an internal service phone.

02:28 - 40.672 And so when you coordinate with the

02:28 - 41.327 er said you

02:28 - 41.802 you

02:28 - 45.522 you don't you do use of restricted accounts that are not

02:28 - 48.522 we do not appropriate from correct

02:28 - 50.662 okay mostly preparation.

02:28 - 53.637 You'd mentioned generating about thirty nine

02:28 - 57.082 million of revenue from the three forty b program

02:28 - 00.605 and where does that show up in your budget and

02:29 - 04.522 does your medical contractor collect those revenues

02:29 - 07.992 know it's an offset to the medical expenses so it's it's a

02:29 - 10.662 that shows the discount we would have paid for

02:29 - 14.922 those for pharmaceuticals that is the discounts we get through three forty be

02:29 - 17.802 that savings would show up in the medical fun

02:29 - 19.777 but you're just showing a discount expenses

02:29 - 23.062 they're billing you less correct and are they.

02:29 - 27.318 Is that reflected when you see that that statement or monthly or whatever however

02:29 - 30.972 they end up billing you does it show in that breakdown that

02:29 - 31.872 this is

02:29 - 34.992 you know what you're saving because of this program yes yes the

02:29 - 36.612 general idea yes okay

02:29 - 38.412 diamond pharmacy managers that and

02:29 - 38.832 there

02:29 - 42.312 are administrator and district does the distribution of those performance

02:29 - 43.952 pharmaceuticals so they have those

02:29 - 48.052 detailed reports and they meet with us annually okay.

02:29 - 49.062 Awesome.

02:29 - 50.662 I think that's all

02:29 - 52.132 that I have here

02:29 - 52.752 and

02:29 - 55.350 we appreciate all of you for being here today

02:29 - 57.612 I know it's been a been a very long meeting

02:29 - 59.242 but I can say

02:29 - 01.632 probably on behalf of every single person up here.

02:30 - 03.702 Thank you for the work you do

02:30 - 05.862 and really thank you

02:30 - 07.732 to the men and women.

02:30 - 10.482 Who work those b blocks across the commonwealth

02:30 - 11.352 and

02:30 - 14.352 it takes a special person to do that does keep at it

02:30 - 15.372 and

02:30 - 17.202 hopefully we can work together

02:30 - 19.781 and find creative ways that we can grow that and

02:30 - 23.172 get more reinforcements for them as well too so

02:30 - 25.062 thank you to all our correctional officers

02:30 - 25.902 so with that

02:30 - 30.462 we're going to recess and we will reengage here at one pm

02:30 - 34.852 with the department of environmental protection thank you everyone thank you so much

02:30 - 43.472 and.