00:08 - Jack McCarthy.

00:10 - You wrote a book about the Mann Center for the Performing Arts in Philadelphia.

00:14 - What gives the man its distinctive character?

00:19 - Well, the Mann Center was established

00:22 - in 1976 as a summer home for the Philadelphia Orchestra.

00:28 - And, of course, the Philadelphia Orchestra is one of the greatest orchestras

00:31 - in the world.

00:32 - And it had a summer home prior to that, which was called

00:36 - the Robin Hood del which opened in 1930.

00:39 - But in 1976, they opened, this modern new facility,

00:44 - you know, as a summer home for, again, one of the greatest orchestras in the world.

00:47 - And since then, the man has evolved to present

00:51 - a lot more pop and rock and contemporary music.

00:55 - So it's still a summer home for the orchestra, but it's also a much

00:59 - more varied venue in terms of the kind of music it presents.

01:03 - So it's really, a treasure in Philadelphia for so many people,

01:08 - who view it as just one of the great outdoor venues

01:13 - in the whole southeastern Pennsylvania region.

01:16 - The first thing that, that strikes a lot of people when they come to the man

01:22 - is they absolutely spectacular view of the Philadelphia skyline.

01:27 - When you walk into the man and you sort of turn a certain way

01:31 - and you just see the skyline in all its glory,

01:34 - and then it's in this beautiful natural setting in Fairmount Park.

01:40 - You know, Fairmount Park is this sprawling thousands of acre,

01:44 - you know, public park, in Philadelphia along the Schuylkill River.

01:49 - And, set in this beautiful natural setting, and it's just it's very,

01:55 - you know, it's pleasing, attractive campus with all kinds of amenities.

02:00 - And then you have this amazing view of the Philadelphia skyline.

02:04 - So all those sort of, esthetic qualities

02:08 - kind of make the experience just a really special one.

02:11 - And then, of course, there's the music, which everybody comes to see.

02:15 - So between the music, which, you know, the greatest artists

02:19 - in the world perform there, and between the setting and the

02:22 - and the view, it's just a really special kind of experience.

02:26 - I will say that, what separates the Mann Center

02:30 - from a number of other summer homes of major orchestras

02:34 - is that it's in and of the city of Philadelphia.

02:40 - Like Tanglewood, the summer home of the Boston.

02:44 - Symphony, who is like hundreds of miles from Boston, the,

02:48 - Saratoga, the summer home of the New York Philharmonic.

02:51 - Well, actually,

02:53 - Saratoga was established as a home of the New York Philharmonic.

02:57 - They ended up not playing there, but anyway, it's way

03:00 - outside of New York City in the, you know, in the, upstate New York.

03:04 - And so all of these venues that are summer homes

03:07 - of major orchestras, they're not actually in the city.

03:11 - The Mann Center and the Robin Hotel before it.

03:15 - You know, we're really in the city and part of the cultural fabric of the city.

03:21 - And, Jack, before we go any farther, let our viewers know the difference between

03:26 - the Robin Hood Dell and the Mann Center,

03:29 - where they built on the same site? No,

03:34 - one is on the.

03:35 - So the Schuylkill River is the the main river that runs through Fairmount Park.

03:40 - The Robin Hotel was built on the east bank of the Schuylkill River in

03:45 - what's called East Fairmount Park, and then the Mann Center was built

03:48 - in West Fairmount Park, you know, in the western part.

03:53 - So the Robin Hood Dell opened in 1930,

03:57 - and in that year there was a number of people

04:00 - in the civic and musical world of Philadelphia

04:04 - that wanted to have a summer home for the Philadelphia Orchestra again,

04:08 - one of the great orchestras in the world, but only people who could afford or had,

04:12 - you know, the means to go to the Academy of Music,

04:15 - downtown Philadelphia, the orchestra's regular season home.

04:19 - You know, only the people that could go there could actually see the orchestra.

04:23 - And so, the civic leaders of musical leaders

04:27 - wanted to create a place where everybody could see the orchestra.

04:31 - So they banded together and they opened the Robin Hood Dell in 1930.

04:37 - And then the orchestra played there for, you know, 45 years.

04:43 - And then the.

04:44 - The Dell had sort of gotten outmoded.

04:48 - And it was all open air.

04:50 - So the weather was always a factor.

04:52 - It was wreaking havoc on the schedule.

04:55 - And then the other thing that happened in the late 1950s,

04:59 - the Schuylkill Expressway opened this major,

05:03 - you know, highway, just on the other side of the river.

05:08 - And the sound of the traffic carried over and really disturbed

05:12 - the concert experience.

05:13 - So for all these reasons, the leaders realized they needed a new home.

05:19 - So, and Frederick Mann, who was the longtime

05:23 - president of the Robin Hood Dell, and he was very, active

05:28 - civic leader and businessman, very wealthy businessman, benefactor, philanthropist.

05:34 - He was the driving force in those days.

05:37 - And he arranged to have a new venue built again

05:40 - in the western part of Fairmount Park.

05:44 - It was originally called Robin Hood Dell West,

05:48 - to differentiate it from, you know, what then became Robin Hood?

05:52 - Dell East.

05:53 - And then in 1979, they named it the Mann Music Center in honor of Frederick Mann.

05:59 - Well, let's,

06:00 - Jack, let's concentrate more

06:02 - on the events of 1930 when the Robin Hood Dell was first put up.

06:06 - What was the impact of the Great Depression

06:09 - on the construction of Robin Hood Dell in those days?

06:12 - Well, actually, that's a, you know, so excellent question.

06:14 - The the the the, fortunate thing

06:19 - is that the effort to build the Robin.

06:22 - Hood Dell sort of culminated

06:26 - right after the depression technically started,

06:29 - but a couple of years before the the worst effects of the depression said.

06:35 - And it was really like 1932, 1933

06:38 - when the the height of the depression, if the effort to build

06:43 - the Dell had started like 2 or 3 years earlier,

06:46 - it's very doubtful they would have been able to pull it off.

06:48 - But, they were able to do it right before the worst of the depression happened.

06:54 - And, you know, it's very, very fortunate.

06:57 - How important was the Philadelphia Orchestra

07:00 - to the social fabric of Philadelphia again back in 1930?

07:05 - Well, again, you know, the Philadelphia Orchestra was founded in 1900,

07:10 - and then in 1912, they hired this extremely charismatic, innovative

07:15 - conductor, Leopold Stokowski, who he's the one that molded the orchestra

07:20 - into a world class ensemble, was world renowned

07:24 - for both its sound and its technical, technical virtuosity.

07:29 - And also, he was a real innovator.

07:31 - He was exploring new technologies of recording and broadcasting music.

07:36 - He was programing a lot of new music, you know, modern music

07:40 - that was just being written.

07:42 - So he kind of put the orchestra

07:44 - on the international stage, you know, it became world renowned and,

07:50 - so it was really a cultural jewel of the city.

07:53 - It was something that everybody in and around Philadelphia was very proud of.

07:58 - We have one of the greatest orchestras in the world. And,

08:02 - and so, again, this movement began

08:04 - like, let's let more people hear this orchestra,

08:07 - not just the people that could go to the Academy of Music.

08:11 - So all those efforts culminated in the opening of the Robin.

08:15 - Hood Dell in 1930, and the concerts were very well attended.

08:19 - You know, there were and they were very affordable.

08:21 - You know, it was like,

08:23 - $0.50 a ticket.

08:25 - In some cases, I mean, it was extremely,

08:28 - economical.

08:29 - And, you know, people came from all over the city. And,

08:34 - and so it was a real success.

08:35 - It did have a lot of challenges financially in the ensuing years.

08:40 - And it was one season in 1948

08:44 - when they ran out of money and they had to, close the deal.

08:50 - In the middle of well, towards the end of that,

08:52 - the summer season, they had to, cancel the last three weeks of concerts.

08:57 - So, at that point, that's when Frederick Mann joined the board

09:01 - and sort of took over and rescued the Dal and brought it back

09:04 - to prominence and financial stability.

09:08 - And, so he's really he looms large in the, in the whole story.

09:14 - And we'll talk about him some more for sure, Jack.

09:16 - But for now, while you did research for your book,

09:20 - did you ever find out why they named it the Robin Hood Dell?

09:24 - Yeah, there was in the part of the Fairmount Park

09:27 - where they established the Dell.

09:29 - There was, it goes back to the 1600s.

09:33 - The the family that owned that property was called the Hood family.

09:39 - And they up and in later generations, they operated a tavern,

09:45 - called the Robin Hood Tavern.

09:47 - And behind the tavern, the land sloped down

09:50 - a natural Dell, to the Schuylkill River.

09:54 - So this Robin Hood originally was called Robin Hood Valley.

09:59 - And then when they decided the leaders, you know,

10:03 - working on creating a summer home for the orchestra,

10:06 - when they chose that site, they just took the name Robin Hood.

10:10 - They called it the Robin Hood down.

10:12 - So that's how the name originated in your book.

10:16 - You called Philadelphia a racially divided city back in 1930.

10:20 - Well, how was that manifested at The Dell at the time?

10:25 - Well, you know, Philadelphia was not alone in this,

10:28 - so a lot of the big cities were very racially divided.

10:32 - And so the audience,

10:35 - you know, was primarily white,

10:38 - because the music was the music of the great European masters.

10:42 - You know, some American music, but composed in the European tradition.

10:48 - So the audiences and the music

10:50 - and the musicians and everybody, it was overwhelmingly white.

10:53 - But then, very early on, they started booking, you know, African-American artists.

11:00 - There was

11:01 - a, an ensemble called the Whole Johnson Choir.

11:05 - Black choir, that, that perform

11:08 - the arrangements of spirituals that its leader, Hall Johnson,

11:13 - wrote.

11:14 - And so they were a big hit in their early

11:17 - 30s. And,

11:20 - for those concerts, the audience was very diverse.

11:24 - A lot of blacks, a lot of whites, you know,

11:26 - and then later, you know, Marian Anderson performed that, the Robin.

11:30 - Hood, Dell, Paul Robeson, these are all people with local ties.

11:33 - Marian Anderson, you know, grew up in Philadelphia.

11:36 - So the audience, for those concerts

11:39 - was very, racially mixed.

11:42 - But for the most part, you know, for the regular

11:46 - orchestra concerts, it was primarily a white audience.

11:49 - And then, you know, now in

11:51 - in more recent years and after the Mann Center opened in the 70s,

11:55 - they really began to diversify their audience.

11:58 - And now it's a wide range of programing that, you know, embraces

12:02 - all kinds of orchestras.

12:03 - Of course, the Roots Picnic, right.

12:06 - The Philadelphia band, The Roots, the very, you know, world famous,

12:10 - they have a picnic every year.

12:13 - That's a two day event, a massive event.

12:15 - It's one of the biggest events in black music in the world, really.

12:21 - And, you know, thousands of people attend.

12:23 - And so the roots picnics, picnic, in in recent years

12:27 - has been staged at the Mann Center.

12:29 - So there's a lot of sort of diversity now.

12:32 - But in the earlier years, the diversity was a little more,

12:36 - you know, specific to certain events.

12:39 - Well, here's another observation.

12:41 - Jack, you made in your book, it's about bandleader Benny Goodman.

12:44 - You said he integrated the Dallas stage back in 1941.

12:49 - First, tell us the importance of Benny Goodman and his status in those days

12:52 - and how he did indeed integrate the stage there.

12:56 - Yeah.

12:56 - So Benny Goodman in the 30s and early 40s, was

13:00 - the biggest bandleader,

13:03 - in America.

13:04 - This was the height of the swing era of the big bands.

13:08 - You know, Duke Ellington,

13:09 - Count Basie, the Dorsey Brothers, and Benny Goodman was the biggest.

13:13 - He was the king of swing.

13:14 - And so he had a lot of sway.

13:17 - And in those days, it was,

13:21 - unusual or almost

13:23 - I wouldn't even more than unusual is very, very rare

13:27 - for black and white musicians to play together on a major stage.

13:31 - They made jam together at a club, a local club or something like that.

13:35 - But to play on a major stage, you know, a

13:38 - major venue, it was pretty racially divided.

13:41 - And what he did is his band was so big and so popular,

13:46 - that, he, he had a small, ensemble, a quartet quintet,

13:52 - that would always

13:53 - open his shows before the big band, played.

13:57 - And he integrated this, small ensemble,

14:02 - and he basically forced,

14:05 - venue operators across the country

14:07 - to accept that because he said, if you don't let my small integrated

14:12 - ensemble play,

14:13 - you're not going to get the Benny Goodman Orchestra,

14:15 - which was the biggest orchestra in the world, right?

14:17 - Or big band in the world.

14:19 - So when he came to the Robin Hood jail.

14:21 - So prior to that,

14:23 - there were black performers, as I mentioned, the Hal Johnson Choir,

14:28 - Marian Anderson, but they were always separate from the orchestra.

14:32 - They weren't, like, integrated right into the orchestra.

14:36 - There were no black members of the orchestra of the Philadelphia Orchestra.

14:39 - But at on Benny Goodman's debut there

14:43 - in 1941, he had an integrated band.

14:46 - So that was the first time at the Dell

14:49 - that an integrated ensemble performed.

14:52 - Well, let's talk about another watershed moment at the Dell and it involves,

14:58 - Judy Garland, who

14:59 - was a big star at the time in 1943.

15:02 - And what's very interesting to note is that it was her very first concert

15:06 - in public, which is kind of surprising because she sang on film, of course.

15:12 - Yeah, she was a big star on film, on recordings, on the radio, but

15:16 - she had never done like a public concert, you know, as a headline artist.

15:21 - And her very first one, you know, was with,

15:25 - in those days it was called the Robin Hood

15:27 - Dell orchestra to it was all it was comprised

15:30 - 90% of Philadelphia Orchestra players, but they wanted to differentiate

15:35 - between the regular season orchestra and the summer orchestra.

15:38 - So in those days it was called the Robert the Denver Orchestra,

15:41 - but it was essentially the Philadelphia Orchestra.

15:43 - So her very first public concert was, you know, in 1943 at the Robin Hood Dell.

15:48 - And it was an enormous success.

15:51 - And that sort of launched her concert career,

15:53 - which became a big part of her, you know, her career.

15:57 - And I understand Frank Sinatra made a surprise appearance

16:00 - at the Dell in 1945, and that was the height

16:03 - of what was referred to as the Bobby Sox or ERA at the time.

16:06 - Right?

16:07 - Yeah.

16:07 - So Frank, John Average, Frank Sinatra,

16:12 - was the biggest star in those days.

16:15 - He had, you know, started with the Dorsey Orchestra and then went solo.

16:19 - Huge star.

16:20 - And yeah, he was like the idol of all the teenage,

16:24 - Bobby Sox or of, you know, female fans and his good friend.

16:28 - Dinah Shore was a singer,

16:32 - later became well-known as a TV host.

16:35 - But she had an engagement there at the time.

16:38 - Adele.

16:39 - And he came to see her, and, you know, he sat in the audience,

16:43 - and then she invited him up to, sing a few songs, and the crowd went wild.

16:48 - It was you know, you know, this sort of amazing event.

16:53 - He sang a few songs, you know, to to great, applause.

16:57 - And that was the only time he ever performed at the room, no doubt.

17:00 - Or later, the the the man center.

17:04 - Then in the early 1960s,

17:06 - youth culture was starting to assert itself and rock and roll.

17:10 - And how well did the dial keep up with changing tastes?

17:14 - I understand they had, Jerry live at their local DJ, very popular.

17:19 - Yeah.

17:19 - So, this was a real point of contention.

17:24 - So the Robin Hood Dell was, you know, partly

17:27 - privately funded, partly funded by the city.

17:31 - And Frederick Mann, you know,

17:33 - who had invested so much of his

17:36 - not just his own money, but his life's work in this facility.

17:41 - He and he was he loved classical music,

17:44 - but he just detested rock and roll.

17:48 - So he saw the Robin Hood Dell as this

17:50 - bastion of, you know, symphonic music.

17:54 - It was built to be that. That's what it should be.

17:56 - It shouldn't be anything else.

17:57 - But these other forces were starting to exert themselves.

18:01 - And people were saying, well, this is our public, tax dollars,

18:05 - and it shouldn't go to just this elitist group of people who like this one

18:09 - kind of music. It should be for everybody.

18:11 - So there were these, efforts to sort of, produce other kinds of music,

18:18 - at the, the Dell.

18:19 - So the very first quote unquote, rock n

18:22 - roll concert was in 1967,

18:26 - Jerry Babbitt, who was a very popular deejay in Philadelphia,

18:30 - was is, is catchphrase was the guy with the heater.

18:35 - Everybody in the Philadelphia area knew him.

18:38 - And he was, you know, not just a DJ, but he hosted dances. And,

18:42 - so he organized he produced this,

18:45 - show with, a lot of local artists

18:48 - and a lot of national artists, and it was also integrated.

18:52 - There was, you know, black and white performers and, it was a big hit.

18:56 - Tens of thousands of people attended.

18:59 - Freeman hated it.

19:02 - But, you know, it was kind of the start.

19:04 - It was really kind of a one off.

19:06 - But then more and more, they began to program, concerts,

19:12 - not during the orchestra season, because that usually ended in late July.

19:16 - But after the orchestra season that concluded, they began to present

19:19 - a lot of, contemporary pop and rock and roll and, and then just over

19:25 - time, that became more and more of the part of the venues programing.

19:31 - Earlier you told me about the disruption created by traffic

19:35 - on a highway that had been opened nearby.

19:38 - And there's another aspect of,

19:41 - disruption to the events there in the form of planes flying overhead.

19:45 - Now, this was noted in your book.

19:46 - You said that planes flying overhead, they were a nuisance, too.

19:50 - And there was an effort made to detour that air traffic.

19:54 - Tell me about that.

19:54 - So people could enjoy the show at the Dell.

19:57 - Yeah. So,

19:59 - you know,

20:00 - in addition to the Schuylkill Expressway opening in the late 1950s, jet

20:05 - air travel began to become more common, like jet airplanes

20:09 - instead of little propeller airplanes. Right.

20:11 - So now you have these jets roaring across the night sky.

20:15 - And they were very disruptive.

20:17 - To the concert experience as well.

20:19 - And Frederick Mann, as I said, was

20:22 - he was also he had a number of positions in city government.

20:26 - And at that time he was,

20:30 - direct city representative

20:32 - and director of commerce for the city.

20:35 - And he had responsible, responsibility over the Philadelphia airport.

20:41 - So he used his authority to have planes

20:45 - detoured around the Robin Hood Dell on concert nights.

20:50 - And there were, like, these posters and these notices that went out

20:53 - to all the airplanes with these maps and saying, you know, and these nights

20:56 - you got to fly this route and not that route.

20:59 - And, so that was one thing he did to sort of,

21:03 - you know, minimize the, the noise of modern.

21:05 - It's hard to it's hard to imagine somebody having that much clout.

21:09 - Yeah.

21:10 - Well, I mean, there weren't as many planes right, in those days.

21:13 - Sure. Right now.

21:15 - So probably wasn't quite as impactful.

21:17 - But yeah, he was enormously influential.

21:19 - He had a number of positions in city government, in addition

21:23 - to being a businessman and philanthropist and musical leader.

21:28 - In your book, you wrote that Frederick Mann rescued the Robin Hood.

21:32 - Well, that was the word you used.

21:33 - Why did it need rescuing?

21:36 - Well, as I mentioned earlier, in 1948, it really ran into financial trouble.

21:41 - He was not on the board at that time.

21:45 - And it

21:45 - just, you know, the the, the audiences were,

21:49 - the numbers were low and the fundraising was a little weak.

21:52 - And so they had to cancel the last part of the the 1948 season.

21:57 - And the board members went to Frederick.

21:59 - Man, they knew

22:00 - he was a wealthy philanthropist who was passionate about classical music.

22:04 - And they went to him and said, you know, we need help.

22:07 - So he agreed, to come on and be president of the board

22:12 - if they would give him sort of absolute power

22:15 - to run the venue, the way he saw fit.

22:18 - And they did.

22:20 - And, you know, he again rescued

22:24 - the Dell from financial ruin.

22:27 - Investing a lot of his own money, which he which was never publicized,

22:30 - but also raising money from his wealthy friends, but also, more importantly,

22:35 - he had developed very close friendships

22:38 - with all of the great classical music

22:40 - artists of that era, the late 40s, early 50s, who was friends with all,

22:45 - and Arthur Rubinstein and Isaac Stern,

22:49 - and Gregory Gorsky, the great cellist.

22:52 - I mean, he he knew these people very well, and he got them to come and play

22:57 - at the Dell, sometimes for free, sometimes for very reduced fees.

23:02 - So he, enhance the quality of the music.

23:08 - And he stabilized the finances.

23:10 - And then in 1953, he did one of the most radical things ever

23:15 - is he made the entire season free.

23:19 - He was able to fund raise and get the city to match the fundraising

23:23 - and to put on entire, I think, in those days was six weeks of concerts

23:29 - by one of the greatest orchestras in the world, completely for free.

23:33 - An entire season, for free was unheard of in America.

23:37 - And people would the coupons would be published in the newspapers.

23:43 - You would clip them out and send in the self-addressed

23:46 - stamped down below and say, you know,

23:48 - I want tickets to this concert, and they would mail you the tickets.

23:52 - I mean, you had to put in the effort, but it was free.

23:55 - And, you know, people flocked,

23:58 - to the it

23:58 - was a huge success and it made headlines all across the country.

24:02 - You know, Philadelphia, creates an entire season of world

24:06 - class classical music completely for free.

24:10 - So, you know, he was just a really,

24:14 - influential, impactful,

24:16 - transformational person, you know, in, in Philadelphia music history.

24:21 - And eventually they changed the name of the Dow to the Mann Center.

24:24 - That was in 1976. Right.

24:27 - So they moved to the new facility in 1976, and they originally called it

24:31 - the Robin Hotel West to distinguish it from the first facility.

24:36 - And then a few years later, they renamed it

24:38 - in honor of Frederick Mann, who who was still running the show.

24:42 - But, you know, they named in his honor,

24:45 - Jack, when the Covid 19 pandemic came along,

24:48 - how did the man handle this new concept of social distancing and putting on shows?

24:54 - Well, it was a real challenge.

24:56 - The first thing is they they had to cancel the entire 2020 season.

25:00 - I mean, that was a huge blow.

25:03 - You know, they had everything lined up and,

25:07 - actually, they had just signed an agreement

25:10 - with Live Nation, the biggest concert promoter in the world,

25:15 - to book the rock and pop contemporary music shows.

25:19 - They literally signed an agreement in, in the early in 2020.

25:24 - And then like a couple of weeks later, they had to shut down the entire season.

25:28 - And that was, you know, again, a major blow.

25:31 - They did a lot of fundraising to help carry them over.

25:35 - And then the next season they had to implement all of these,

25:41 - measures.

25:42 - You know, they had to check people's vaccination, people had to wear

25:45 - masks, people had to be, separated.

25:48 - Now, at one point, the city

25:50 - said, you know, there had to be like, you know, 6 to 6ft between every,

25:56 - seat,

25:57 - which would have meant that the like

26:00 - two thirds of the, seats couldn't be used.

26:04 - So it would have been a disaster for the man financially.

26:07 - He wouldn't have been able to put on concerts

26:09 - with only a fraction of the people attending.

26:12 - But sort of towards in late

26:14 - spring, the city rescinded that requirement,

26:18 - and they were able to actually sell all the seats.

26:20 - But yeah, I mean, it was a real challenge.

26:22 - They had to enact all these, security measures and,

26:27 - but you know, they made it through and they came out,

26:31 - a much stronger organization in the.

26:34 - Yeah.

26:35 - Jack, we only have two minutes left in our program.

26:38 - When did you first visit the Mann Center?

26:41 - What was the occasion? What do you remember?

26:44 - You know, I I'm sorry to say that, you know, I'm a historian.

26:48 - I. Yeah, I do not remember what the first concert was.

26:52 - I know I went there many times.

26:54 - I specifically remember seeing the B-52's.

26:57 - Great.

26:59 - You know, the sort of new wave rock band.

27:01 - Sure.

27:02 - I remember seeing, Elvis Costello.

27:05 - I remember seeing the Neville Brothers.

27:08 - And I also went to some orchestra concerts, too.

27:11 - I remember you know, and actually, when I started going, you

27:14 - they still had those, free tickets that you had to mail the, the coupons in.

27:19 - They stopped that.

27:20 - And, I think late 80s, early 90s.

27:24 - But I did go and see a few orchestra concerts

27:27 - that I did go to see a number of, you know, rock and pop shows.

27:32 - I couldn't remember all of them, couldn't remember the years.

27:35 - But, yeah, you have some pleasant memories at the man.

27:38 - I do, I do, and, you know, like everybody, I was just struck by the beauty of the,

27:44 - I mean, both the, you know, the the interior, the wood paneling

27:47 - of the of the, of the auditorium, the outdoor, you know, the seating,

27:52 - the colorful seats, the beautiful skyline, the beautiful sloping,

27:56 - landscape and all these amenities. You know,

27:58 - there's all these food concessions and, you know, things like that.

28:02 - It's just a very kind of, you know, enriching experience.

28:07 - And, you know, they're doing as we speak.

28:10 - They're doing a major renovation of the man complete renovation of the campus.

28:15 - Much more,

28:17 - visitor amenities.

28:18 - They're going to have a,

28:20 - expanded visitor center with, with displays and a hall of fame.

28:25 - Of all the great performers

28:27 - that are perform there, you're going to be able to pull up

28:29 - photos and audio of some of the great performances.

28:33 - It's going to be like a real visitor experience.

28:35 - Jack McCarthy, author of A Century of Music Under the Stars.

28:39 - A history of the Mann Center for the Performing Arts, and Robin Hood

28:43 - Dell, thank you very much for your time today.

28:46 - My pleasure.