00:10 - Leann Lucas and Rob ruck are

00:11 - the authors of Mal Good The Life and Work of a Black Broadcast Trailblazer.

00:16 - On October 28th, 1962, Mal Goode gave a live TV report from the United Nations.

00:21 - Take us there.

00:21 - Describe that scene for us.

00:25 - The country

00:26 - was in the midst of, high anxiety,

00:29 - as the Soviet Union

00:32 - had placed some missiles in Cuba.

00:35 - And John Kennedy, the president, was determined

00:38 - to make sure those missiles were removed.

00:41 - Given the context of the Cold War,

00:44 - there was fear that this could trigger a nuclear holocaust.

00:48 - Mal Goode, meanwhile,

00:51 - had recently been hired by ABC,

00:54 - breaking the color line at the level of national broadcasting

00:58 - for any of the networks and stationed at the U.N.

01:01 - because they thought that would put him out of the way.

01:06 - So that day,

01:08 - when Mal Goode actually goes on air and goes on air

01:11 - dozens of times in the next 36 hours,

01:14 - reporting to a very tense nation, the events

01:18 - every minute as much as they could, follow them.

01:22 - It was because the main reporter, John McCain, was out of town and not reachable.

01:28 - So the person that was intended to be on the news was not able to

01:31 - because they simply couldn't find him.

01:32 - He was in Connecticut hunting.

01:34 - And so, as the news director looked for who could report live knowing the story

01:40 - full well, to live to live broadcast, Mal Goode was at the ready.

01:45 - So was there a sense that, were people aware

01:48 - of the significance of this moment?

01:51 - I think the people in the black

01:53 - community were certainly aware of the significance.

01:56 - I think some white people as well.

01:59 - But I think a lot of people were more

02:02 - caught up in the reality of what was happening. And

02:07 - now, was

02:09 - reporting the news and interpreting things for them.

02:13 - And I think they appreciated that.

02:16 - I'm how good he was 54 years old.

02:18 - So he was starting a new path in his life and in his 50s.

02:22 - But he had a long life before that.

02:24 - And, talk about, what he was doing immediately

02:28 - before he was hired at ABC news.

02:31 - So Mal Good had a very interesting career in which he constantly wanted to.

02:36 - He was a voice in the city of Pittsburgh.

02:39 - He was a voice on the radio.

02:41 - He worked for the Pittsburgh Courier.

02:43 - He was obviously a pundit in town, but he could not break into television.

02:48 - It was very frustrating to him

02:50 - because he was very skilled and sort of built for television.

02:53 - He was tall and strong and very self-possessed and ready to be broadcast.

02:59 - But Pittsburgh TV just wouldn't allow him on the air

03:03 - because of the color line and the resistance to the local audience.

03:06 - So what he is actually skips local television

03:10 - and goes to national network news.

03:12 - He had accumulated years and years of experience, and as Robert,

03:17 - I always say, he had a chip on his shoulder that really fine tuned

03:21 - his excellence and his ability

03:23 - to perform at that level at that day with essentially no warning.

03:28 - Mel was

03:29 - not a guy who went to journalism school.

03:32 - He didn't come up through the system.

03:35 - I mean, this was a fellow who, when he was a kid, was always working.

03:40 - He started working at the Homestead steelworks while he was still in high

03:43 - school.

03:44 - He continued to work in the mill doing night turns when he was at Pitt.

03:49 - And he graduated in the midst of the great Depression.

03:52 - Nothing was never was ever handed to this man.

03:55 - Just a a life of enormous resilience, as you'd expect

04:00 - from the grandson of sharecroppers,

04:03 - the son of a steelworker.

04:06 - Who took nothing for granted.

04:09 - And yet

04:11 - his experience, I think, outside,

04:13 - the traditional channels by which somebody would become a broadcast.

04:19 - Correspondent was what made him exceptional.

04:23 - He related to people.

04:25 - He bridged divides within black America.

04:28 - But he was also quite capable of talking and interacting with white people as well.

04:34 - Where did he grew up?

04:35 - In Pittsburgh. What neighborhood was he in?

04:37 - He grew up in homestead,

04:40 - which was where the where the homestead mills were,

04:43 - which is where his father worked,

04:45 - and in addition, where he worked, for years through high school

04:48 - and then after he graduated from college in 1931 due to the depression,

04:52 - who was not able to meet his goal of attending law school,

04:55 - which has always been what he wanted to do.

04:57 - But that was off the table

04:59 - due to the economic collapse, and he went back to work in the mills as well.

05:03 - So he had a deep history in steel working.

05:07 - What was his family life like as he was growing up?

05:11 - His life was all about family, faith and the fight for freedom.

05:15 - It was a close knit family.

05:18 - His parents, challenged their children,

05:22 - to go beyond where they had gone, even though his father was illiterate.

05:27 - When he got married, his mother had taught school in Staunton, Virginia.

05:33 - And they stressed, you're going to get an education,

05:37 - you're going to go to college,

05:40 - and you're going to

05:41 - work and you're going to remain committed.

05:44 - And I mean, the whole story of the family, it's of exceptional,

05:49 - progress in terms of what they did during their lives,

05:55 - despite the segregation and Jim Crow that they endured.

05:59 - Tremendous respect for the parents, tremendous respect for those

06:04 - who had come before them.

06:05 - And the family was self-consciously aware of the moment it was in.

06:09 - They would have Sunday dinners and talk about the news

06:12 - and talk about what they were going to do moving forward.

06:15 - So they were very wedded to each other, to their Christian faith,

06:20 - but also to advancing the family and the race.

06:25 - He graduated from the University of Pittsburgh

06:27 - in the middle of the Great Depression.

06:30 - You mentioned he wanted to go to law school.

06:31 - How did his life unfold after he graduated from college?

06:36 - It was tough.

06:39 - He worked in the mill.

06:40 - But you're only getting a couple of days of work a month.

06:44 - He also worked as a porter in a men's

06:47 - store as the only black employee.

06:50 - And he really wanted to get something

06:54 - that reflected the degree of education that he had.

06:59 - Finally, he's able

07:01 - to get a position as a junior probation officer

07:05 - working with teens on the city's Hill district.

07:09 - From there, he goes to the Center Avenue YMCA.

07:12 - Is the boy's director.

07:14 - From there, he goes to managing housing

07:17 - projects, integrated projects during World War two.

07:21 - All of this is before he begins to work with the Pittsburgh Courier newspaper

07:26 - when he's 40, which is the catalyst to him

07:29 - getting some experience on the radio and becoming

07:34 - a very sharp and,

07:36 - well-respected voice on Pittsburgh radio.

07:41 - The only black voice that addressed

07:44 - the kinds of issues that were plaguing the community.

07:48 - Tell us about the Pittsburgh Courier.

07:50 - How significant was it at that time in Newark?

07:53 - You know, the Courier had been founded, early in the 20th century.

07:58 - By the 1930s.

08:00 - It's one of the,

08:04 - highest circulation black papers in the country,

08:07 - along with the Chicago Defender.

08:09 - Robert L Vann, the publisher, backed

08:14 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, telling black voters it's time to turn Lincoln's

08:19 - photo to the wall and vote for the Democrats.

08:23 - And it was a self-conscious voice for integration.

08:29 - And struggle.

08:30 - And now gained I mean, his experience was gained

08:35 - by working with the staff on The Courier.

08:38 - He wasn't writing as much as doing circulation work.

08:42 - But when he took to the airwaves,

08:46 - he had learned about how to report.

08:49 - And his the Pittsburgh Courier was responsible

08:51 - for the double V campaign during World War Two, victory at home and abroad

08:56 - that whetted the cause of democracy and fighting for democracy

09:00 - abroad, to the democracy, for African American citizens at home.

09:04 - So those were critical years for him as well.

09:07 - But he was doing sales and he was traveling and representing

09:10 - the courier as well, and definitely circulating among those people.

09:14 - But we we think it's notable that

09:18 - he never wrote a piece of journalism.

09:21 - So that was a whole different way

09:24 - of gaining experience and richness of of understanding

09:28 - of the situation that he then reported on through broadcast.

09:33 - Can you explain just the geographic reach of the at the Pittsburgh Courier?

09:39 - The Courier published in

09:42 - about 8 or 9 different national editions to different regions of the country.

09:47 - And it was the kind of paper that would be circulated by Pullman porters

09:52 - who would take it along, on their travels along the rail lines.

09:57 - So it was a very widely respected paper.

10:01 - And I think,

10:03 - you know, it's the black press

10:05 - and the Negro leagues and the Chitlin Circuit,

10:08 - which begins to unite black Americans after the great migrations

10:12 - out of the South and gives points of contact and communication,

10:17 - and now was connected to all of those networks.

10:21 - And that's at some point he's offered the opportunity to go on the radio.

10:25 - How did that happen?

10:26 - He wasn't he wasn't a journalist.

10:28 - Well, why was he selected?

10:30 - This is a great story and a great part of it

10:32 - that goes back to the family dynamic.

10:34 - His sister, married, was an unusual woman

10:37 - of her time as well, and a path breaker in her own right.

10:40 - And she actually had a local radio station,

10:44 - a local radio show that integrated sort of gospel music.

10:48 - And she became the first black woman DJ in the country.

10:52 - The Courier had the idea of doing a brief news insert called The Courier Speaks,

10:57 - on that show and bringing together this brother and sister team

11:03 - that would integrate chat and some, music.

11:07 - And then Mal would report on happenings of the day.

11:10 - So that was how his voice was actually heard across airwaves.

11:14 - Although we think, according to what Rob was saying as well, earlier,

11:18 - most people in the black community

11:20 - had knew who he was at that point, had spoken with him, been around him.

11:24 - He did a lot of speaking engagements.

11:26 - So he was definitely, a celebrated figure in town.

11:30 - What would his reports have been like if you were listening to them?

11:33 - What did he talk about?

11:36 - He if there was a case of police violence

11:39 - against a members of black community, now would be all over it.

11:44 - If there were issues concerning housing politics,

11:49 - if there were changes that led to African-Americans

11:53 - being hired to teach in certain districts,

11:57 - Mel would trumpet the victories

12:01 - and make sure that any of the injustices or problems,

12:05 - had the spotlight turned on them.

12:08 - And he held his institutions accountable.

12:11 - He held institutions in Pittsburgh, the Homestead School District,

12:14 - University of Pittsburgh.

12:16 - He would challenge those institutions to do better.

12:20 - And he would use that, platform to do so.

12:25 - One of the things about Mao's journalistic

12:27 - style was that while

12:30 - he was often extremely well prepared and practiced before

12:34 - he'd go on the air, he could also do

12:37 - a stand up spontaneously.

12:41 - And, you know, he had the diction

12:43 - of Eric Sevareid or Walter Cronkite.

12:46 - Enormously self-possessed and calm,

12:50 - and able to be forceful when he spoke.

12:55 - So he starting this new career in broadcasting.

12:58 - What was the audience response?

13:01 - I think black America was exuberant.

13:05 - And there was also a good number of white people who were glad

13:08 - to see a black face and a black voice.

13:13 - On the air.

13:14 - I think the consternation was primarily with ABC.

13:19 - They had hired him, but they really didn't know what to do with them.

13:24 - So going back to his early radio career,

13:26 - he's at KQ V initially for this, the Courier Speak segment.

13:31 - How long is he there?

13:33 - Not too long.

13:34 - The Courier

13:36 - KQ v s the coverage for Payne for the segment.

13:40 - And they laughed and they said, you know, we're doing something good for you.

13:45 - They want to w.h.o.

13:46 - d the station for all nations that emerged after World War two

13:51 - that tried to give voice to immigrant communities.

13:54 - The black community, working people and the like.

13:58 - And he was he and his sister, Mary D were naturals, for that station.

14:04 - How does his career evolve?

14:06 - And so he's,

14:08 - is he still doing the same type of radio reports there?

14:12 - Yeah, he is doing the same type of reports.

14:14 - And this is when he starts getting the bug.

14:15 - Now that most American homes have televisions.

14:18 - This is when he starts getting the bug to get on that on local television.

14:21 - He does some sport broadcasting.

14:24 - He he tries to break it.

14:25 - He fills it in for a few people, but he cannot sustain a permanent position.

14:29 - And the answer comes to him that it's simply a race matter,

14:33 - that it's it's impacting audience, viewership.

14:37 - And so that's when he gets incredibly discouraged.

14:40 - And that is also when he gets he starts talking about

14:43 - this more as an insurmountable barrier.

14:46 - And that's when Jackie Robinson plays a role in his career.

14:51 - Mel grew up across the street from the brothers

14:54 - who founded the Homestead Grays, a block away from Cumberland Posey

14:58 - Jr, who made them the Negro Leagues foremost franchise.

15:03 - He knew all the black players, and when he was doing his radio show,

15:07 - those players when they came to town,

15:10 - would be on the show, but also go to Mel and Mary Good's home

15:15 - for meals and a chance to relax in the community.

15:19 - Jackie Robinson was among them.

15:21 - And Mel, one day when he's escorting

15:26 - Jackie to a talk in McKeesport, PA, a steel mill town outside

15:31 - the city is lamenting his difficulty breaking into television.

15:35 - And it's Jackie who confronts, the ABC president

15:40 - about the fact that whenever he comes to do,

15:43 - an appearance on ABC,

15:45 - he sees two black people working in the building,

15:49 - you know, one answering phones, the other mopping, and sweeping.

15:52 - And that provokes ABC to do a search

15:57 - for a black figure who can break the ice and Jackie,

16:02 - as well as the Pittsburgh sporting community, black and white that now.

16:08 - And he gets a chance to audition and lands up and ends up with the job.

16:13 - And speaking of accidents that happen, Jackie Robinson would be on Howard Cosell

16:18 - show, sports show, and and it's just completely serendipitous

16:23 - that Jim Haggerty, the ABC news director, heard he was being interviewed

16:27 - and ran over there to speak with his hero with Jackie Robinson.

16:32 - And instead of getting sort of the greeting

16:33 - he expected, he gets admonished for where the black people and

16:37 - and Jackie and, Haggerty just say we can't find anyone qualified.

16:42 - And as if they had been searching, which they really hadn't been.

16:45 - And that's when Jackie Robinson's.

16:47 - That's simply not true.

16:49 - And mentions you need to check out Mal Good from Pittsburgh.

16:52 - And the search then continues.

16:54 - And it is a full search.

16:55 - We we haven't been able to nail the exact details we hear.

16:58 - It's between maybe there were 20 to 25 people.

17:01 - Mal is then

17:02 - brought to New York to do a live audition and sets himself apart pretty early

17:06 - when they ask him to read copy and he said I'd rather write my own copy,

17:12 - and then is then informed that he has.

17:15 - If he wants the position, it is his.

17:18 - So he ends up being assigned to the United Nations.

17:21 - How does he use that position to build connections with diplomats

17:25 - and become involved in reporting on the Cold War?

17:30 - Well, not long after he's

17:32 - hired, he's asked by the State Department to be a part of a team

17:37 - of American journalists who will go to Africa and do seminars

17:42 - for several months in three different countries.

17:45 - And he sees as one of his

17:48 - responsibilities to bring the concerns and issues of Africa,

17:52 - which in the early 60s is going through,

17:56 - a lot of

17:56 - independent struggles and countries are finally,

18:00 - emerging out of colonialism to be their voice, to be their advocate,

18:06 - because they didn't really have one in the American media.

18:10 - And, you know, he really has two goals in many ways.

18:13 - It's not just representing Africa, it's representing black America

18:18 - to see that their issues and concerns are part

18:21 - of the agenda of a major network,

18:24 - and their voices are heard.

18:28 - In his time at ABC, he he stays there until 1973.

18:31 - But those years from 1962 to 73 are very momentous years.

18:35 - There are a lot of things going on in America at that time.

18:38 - How does his, journalistic career evolve?

18:40 - He's he's at the United Nations.

18:42 - The civil rights movement is going on.

18:44 - What types of things are he covering?

18:47 - Well, it's such an

18:48 - interesting question, because we know that black reporters

18:51 - and there began to be a few had a very difficult time.

18:55 - Reporting on the realities of the day because they were often

18:58 - accused of advocacy reporting.

18:59 - So he had to toe that line as well.

19:02 - Additionally, he knows all the key figures.

19:04 - He he is in constant communication with Martin Luther King and Malcolm X,

19:10 - and we know that he knows everybody who's doing this work,

19:13 - which means he has an inside line to the stories.

19:16 - And in the beginning, he's really trying to show black America

19:19 - in all of its complexities and its nuances, and try to undermine

19:24 - stereotypes that have sort of been absorbed by, by mainstream media.

19:28 - So he does that.

19:28 - But as the civil rights movement rolls on, he's doing very close, intense work

19:34 - using his connections to get the story right and front and center.

19:39 - He also is aware of the dynamics of the civil rights movement,

19:43 - from its leadership to the people on the street to grassroots leaders.

19:46 - He goes to small communities, he asks questions, and wherever he goes,

19:52 - he is embraced by the people he's interviewing.

19:54 - He is trusted

19:56 - that they know that he will give an accurate portrayal of them

19:59 - as the years go on and the nation is roiled

20:03 - by the increasing radicalism of he's still out there trying.

20:08 - He's still trying to go to the Black Power Conference

20:11 - to make sure they are represented authentically.

20:13 - And we know that he's not agreeing with everything,

20:17 - but he's just trying to get stories out authentically, to clear up misconceptions,

20:22 - to humanize stories that have been stereotyped.

20:26 - And then he retires in 72 because of mandatory retirement,

20:31 - not for any other reason.

20:33 - And he continues to work after that back on radio

20:36 - and doing a myriad of other speaking engagements.

20:40 - Consultation.

20:41 - You mean he is not done when he retires from ABC news

20:44 - and he is trying to keep up with the dynamic nation?

20:49 - And, and the fraught nation

20:52 - in the 1960s.

20:53 - One of the things that he wants to do is make a documentary program,

20:57 - and he ends up selecting Atlanta as as the subject.

21:00 - Tell us about the story he was trying to tell.

21:04 - I think he saw at Atlanta as an exemplar

21:08 - of how integration could be conducted

21:12 - in a more optimal fashion than it had been in many parts of the country.

21:17 - I mean, often integration meant,

21:21 - a message being sent to black people, come on board, be like white people.

21:25 - And black institutions crumbled.

21:27 - Whether that was the Negro Leagues, black colleges

21:30 - and universities, the black press and black businesses.

21:34 - But he saw a different story playing out in Atlanta.

21:38 - And he saw he he recognized

21:41 - when white people were doing things, which he agreed with.

21:44 - And he thought

21:46 - responsible and progressive, just as if there were black

21:49 - people doing things that he thought were getting in the way.

21:53 - Yeah, he'd be on top of them as well.

21:56 - And he looked at land and he saw this so-called New South emerging,

22:02 - and he went there, and he spent a couple of months,

22:05 - and turned that into an award winning ABC documentary

22:11 - that, appropriately, was called The City Too Busy to Hate.

22:15 - So focused on productive partnerships, productive alliances.

22:21 - You mentioned it was an award winning documentary.

22:23 - And you say in the book that the documentary unleashed

22:25 - artistic energies that Mao felt had been stifled at ABC,

22:28 - but the show was a one off and he never did another.

22:31 - Yeah, no.

22:32 - I think Mel's continually frustrated by not being given the freedom

22:39 - to produce that,

22:42 - that non-black correspondents were.

22:47 - And it was also in the beginning,

22:49 - the fact that he was sort of held to two black stories

22:54 - and that he was denied being, being the key

22:58 - reporter on other stories that would have given him

23:00 - greater visibility was also a constant frustration.

23:04 - But then the ultimate frustration is that when the civil rights movement becomes

23:07 - a central mainstream story, he is not sent to some of those key events.

23:12 - And white reporters are there big, you know, blockbusting, right.

23:15 - Reporters are and I think that's a big breaking point for him.

23:18 - That's when he is ultimately, we see an anger in him and we

23:24 - we always see a firmness in him,

23:26 - but we see an anger and a no longer willing to compromise on that.

23:30 - And the big story there is when Martin Luther King is assassinated

23:33 - and he is not sent to the funeral, and he says, I'm going anyway.

23:37 - And he goes and by all accounts, when he gets there

23:41 - place was swarming with white reporters that people were being interviewed.

23:45 - Stop who they are.

23:46 - Mid mid interview to go to Mao because they know he is the person

23:51 - who's been along the whole way, who understands the story from the inside.

23:54 - So he does go to that funeral, but he was not selected to go to that funeral.

23:58 - It might have been an oversight, but he did not see it as that.

24:02 - After he leaves ABC, he goes to the National Black Network

24:06 - and he continues working there until he's 83.

24:08 - Is that right? In those early 80s.

24:10 - So he continues to have a a rich, rewarding broadcasting career.

24:16 - Mel had tremendous energy and drive.

24:20 - I met him when he was in his 80s already, and

24:26 - once he gets going, he was like a volcano erupting.

24:29 - When he was talking about his own family

24:33 - and its past in sharecropping in the mill and his career.

24:37 - I've met few people at that level

24:42 - of determination and energy at any age.

24:47 - And also we would we would be not painting the full picture

24:51 - if we didn't, also mention his commitment to his family.

24:55 - And particularly his partnership with his wife, Mary,

24:59 - who he could not have done all he did if she were not there,

25:02 - maintaining the faith in the family the way that he needed it

25:06 - to be done as well, so that he could do his work.

25:09 - But that family, they go to college, they push, they keep going.

25:13 - They are so incredibly committed to each other.

25:16 - So a lot of his energy is going to children and grandchildren

25:19 - and nieces and nephews.

25:20 - And one of the the sweetest things about him

25:24 - is that all of his speaking engagements towards the latter, say,

25:27 - two decades of his life, he would say that at the end,

25:30 - don't think you're getting out of here without hearing everything about my kids.

25:33 - And he would relay where they all were.

25:36 - So all of those parts of him integrated, at the end of his life or towards the,

25:41 - you know, the twilight of his life in a way that was very visible.

25:45 - So final

25:46 - thought, when you look back on his career as a broadcaster, pioneering

25:50 - African-American broadcaster, how would you assess it?

25:55 - I think somebody has to be the first.

25:58 - And despite knowing,

26:03 - the damage that can be done if you mess up

26:07 - to go through it to succeed

26:09 - and then fight for other people to be able to follow you.

26:14 - And he was a mentor, not just to black,

26:18 - but also to white to women,

26:21 - who were breaking into the business.

26:24 - And he was constantly

26:26 - pushing for greater inclusion.

26:29 - So it wasn't just him.

26:31 - It wasn't really about him.

26:33 - I mean, he felt a responsibility.

26:35 - And I think he maintained that his entire life.

26:40 - I think he was responsible for building a foundation

26:44 - and for nurturing others and ways that can never be fully appreciated.

26:49 - One of the stories that that was so touching is that we

26:52 - we heard Ed Bradley, who went on to have a big career

26:55 - and, at CBS news when he died tragically young,

26:59 - told a story that came through others who knew Ed Bradley

27:03 - that said he was walking through as a child and saw Mal

27:06 - Goode on ABC news and said, that's what I'm going to do.

27:10 - So we'll never know how many of those moments there were.

27:14 - We will never.

27:15 - We have a good sense of how many people, he wrote to and how many people

27:18 - he supported and tried to get interviews quietly,

27:22 - but we'll never know the full impact of what it was that day.

27:25 - When he went on ABC news, we were speaking with Leon Lucas and Rob ruck.

27:29 - They are the authors of Mal Good The Life

27:31 - and Work of a Black Broadcast Trailblazer. Thank you both for joining me.

27:35 - Thank you.

27:36 - It's been a great pleasure.

27:38 - Thank you. Hey.