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00:05 - Hello and welcome to Inside

00:08 - Pennsylvania Boroughs.

00:12 - It has been estimated

00:13 - that 1 in 5 American adults experienced mental illness each year.

00:18 - More than 1.8 million Pennsylvanians

00:20 - have a mental health condition, while 1 in 6 U.S.

00:24 - youth aged 6 to 17 experience a mental health disorder.

00:29 - Rates of depression continue to rise in high school.

00:32 - Students dealing with these challenges

00:34 - are more than two times more likely to drop out than their peers.

00:38 - On average, one person dies by suicide

00:41 - every 11 minutes in the United States.

00:44 - Many continue to experience unmet needs for mental health care,

00:48 - with barriers including cost, stigma, and access to care.

00:52 - Fortunately, well-intentioned and strategic public policy

00:56 - initiatives are underway

00:57 - to improve the mental health system and help those in need.

01:01 - Joining today's discussion are Laurie Barnett Levine,

01:04 - Lsw, CEO of Mental Health America of Southwestern, PA

01:09 - and board president of the Mental Health Association in Pennsylvania.

01:13 - Joan Ernie, J.D., retired behavioral health executive and former

01:17 - deputy secretary of the Office of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services.

01:22 - Omar Sass and Jennifer Wilt, board

01:26 - president for the Nami Cumberland and Perry counties, PA.

01:30 - Now, here is your host and executive director

01:33 - of the Pennsylvania State Association of Boroughs, Chris Kapp.

01:37 - Good day everyone.

01:38 - It is more important than ever to build a strong mental health system.

01:42 - Many are struggling in our communities.

01:44 - Fortunately, there is hope.

01:46 - Mental health professionals are helping on the front lines

01:50 - and we appreciate their efforts.

01:52 - Lori, thanks so much for joining us today.

01:53 - Tell us about your background.

01:54 - Thank you so much for inviting me to be on the show.

01:58 - I'm a licensed social worker.

02:00 - I've worked in the field for decades, and, I'm very committed

02:04 - to working with people with mental health issues.

02:08 - The mind body connection has always fascinated me,

02:11 - even from the time I was an adolescent.

02:14 - And I've been involved in mental health programs.

02:17 - Really since that time, and studied at the University

02:20 - of Pittsburgh and got my master's degree in social work.

02:23 - And I've been involved in direct service provision.

02:26 - My heart has always been with advocacy,

02:29 - and I chose to major in administration because I felt, though, that

02:34 - by being in administration, I could make a greater impact on the system

02:38 - related to advocacy.

02:40 - And so that's been my life's work.

02:42 - And, Joanne, a very distinguished record of service.

02:44 - Thanks. Welcome.

02:46 - Thank you.

02:46 - Thanks.

02:47 - It's great to be here.

02:48 - And, this is one of my, topics.

02:50 - It's always close to my heart.

02:52 - I have a background, in about 40 years in the behavioral health system,

02:56 - from direct service to administration.

02:58 - I was a former deputy secretary under the Rendell administration.

03:02 - Was there about seven and a half years, and we did lots of really great things,

03:06 - I think, for the community.

03:07 - My more recent position was as the CEO of CBA,

03:11 - which is Philadelphia's Medicaid behavioral health program.

03:14 - And in Philadelphia, we served 700 over 700,000.

03:17 - Medicaid recipients, really focusing on their mental health and substance use.

03:21 - And I loved your opening statement, because there is always hope.

03:24 - And that's what we hope that we can make sure that folks know

03:27 - is that there are treatment options, there are things for people to get access to.

03:31 - And we're glad to be here to have this important discussion.

03:34 - And Jen, tell us about Nami nearby Perry and Cumberland County.

03:37 - Yeah. Good morning. Thanks for having us.

03:39 - So I am a parent,

03:42 - and that's how I became involved with Nami.

03:45 - I have, an older son that was diagnosed at the age of 17,

03:50 - in 2009, so we didn't know what was going on.

03:54 - Someone had mentioned the organization in Nami.

03:57 - I ended up taking a family to family class.

03:59 - I took it three times and it was really a great wealth

04:04 - of resource for our family to better understand what was going on.

04:08 - And then I became involved with Nami, Cumberland and Perry County.

04:12 - 2017 started teaching the family to family classes.

04:16 - You know, I always say education is key for anything, with any kind of disease.

04:21 - And this is a disease.

04:22 - So I am, an advocate as well, support system for many.

04:28 - And, an educator.

04:30 - Lori, what is the state of our mental health system?

04:34 - As long as I've been in the field,

04:36 - and I said as a, as a provider and, now I am the CEO of Mental Health.

04:43 - America of southwestern Pennsylvania, and I'm the board

04:46 - chair of the Mental Health Association in Pennsylvania.

04:49 - And I also, am on some committees

04:52 - for Mental Health America, which is a national organization.

04:56 - And I think for all the time that I've been in mental

04:59 - health, it's always been a challenge.

05:02 - I remember even as like a student intern going to these meetings, hearing

05:07 - about problems with lack of funding, there's never enough funding.

05:12 - It's a traditionally underfunded system.

05:14 - However, there have been so many developments since I came into the system.

05:20 - You know, with the, the adoption of even more eyes,

05:25 - things that we're learning about the brain and,

05:28 - you know, as we said, mental health, having a mental illness is a disease.

05:33 - And so I talked to people that, you know, if you had,

05:37 - diabetes, you would talk about it.

05:40 - If you had a heart condition, you would talk about it.

05:43 - Having a mental illness is a bona fide disease.

05:46 - And I think that some of the things that have happened recently, when I say

05:50 - recently, in the past decades, is what we're learning more about the brain.

05:55 - And so we're able to learn things about people

05:58 - that have mental illness and how their brains are different.

06:01 - There have been so many new medications that have been discovered,

06:05 - but we need the funding to be able to do what it is that we know.

06:10 - So I think in Pennsylvania we have this really unique system.

06:14 - So being a commonwealth, we're a county based system

06:17 - over 25 years ago,

06:19 - we started a program called Health Choices,

06:21 - which is the Medicaid side for behavioral health.

06:23 - Sadly, our commercial insurers often do not pay

06:27 - for treatment services for people with serious mental illness.

06:31 - And so they will default into the public sector.

06:34 - So the public sector has had to develop this whole array of services.

06:38 - So county government plays an integral role.

06:41 - They take on the responsibility of both Medicaid and non Medicaid.

06:45 - They really create the opportunity for treatment as well as housing

06:50 - and other things, because what we know is just like other individuals

06:54 - who have other illnesses, some of what we need are really basic.

06:58 - We need a place to live and we need food to eat.

07:01 - And then we also need access to treatment and support services.

07:04 - And our current system is still struggling and trying to recover from Covid.

07:09 - And in the current environment, with cuts being on the table and

07:12 - and budgets being delayed and things of those natures,

07:15 - it really does impact the individual and the community.

07:20 - When you can't get access to those resources and you're dealing

07:23 - with poverty on a day to day basis. Jan.

07:26 - So I will mirror everything that they're saying.

07:29 - You know, also looking at transportation,

07:32 - so you have a, a group of people, a lot of them cannot drive.

07:36 - And if they are severely mentally ill, how do they get to their appointments?

07:41 - So a key part of all of this is families.

07:45 - You know, families really need to play

07:47 - a large role in the care for somebody that is that is not well,

07:52 - because if they're in a crisis, I mean, you think of somebody

07:54 - that maybe had a heart attack, are they able to take themselves

07:57 - to their appointment, you know, kind of similar situation,

08:01 - like Lori had mentioned as far as medical versus mental health.

08:05 - So we are seeing a little bit more integration

08:08 - when it comes to our family practitioners.

08:12 - You know, the what is the first thing you see when you go in for an appointment?

08:17 - I get a form that asks me all these questions.

08:19 - How am I feeling?

08:20 - So where do you go from there?

08:22 - So we really need to be real involved

08:24 - with our family practitioners as well and get them involved.

08:28 - And there's something that we've known for a long time, and we're starting

08:33 - to practice now is called the social determinants of health.

08:37 - And there things that people need to live to be healthy.

08:42 - So for example, you mentioned housing.

08:45 - How can you think about your mental health

08:47 - when you don't know where you're going to sleep tonight?

08:49 - How can you think about your mental health when you don't have food?

08:53 - And how can you not be depressed and anxious about those things?

08:57 - There are, of course, extensive deliberations

08:59 - on the congressional level and the state level.

09:01 - How important is funding and what are some of the legislative

09:05 - and regulatory movements, that your monitor, Laurie, funding is critical.

09:10 - And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we've always been underfunded.

09:14 - And so in order to be able to pay for services, there's services,

09:19 - you know, as John mentioned, that are not, funded by health insurance.

09:24 - And so we need that funding.

09:27 - You know, even with children, we want to catch people upstream

09:31 - before they develop a mental health issue

09:34 - or as they're developing a mental health issue.

09:38 - We can talk about first episode psychosis programs,

09:42 - which really should be in every community,

09:45 - because the earlier that we can provide this treatment, the better the outcomes.

09:49 - And I'm gonna refer to John on this too, because I know she has a lot to say.

09:53 - Well, I would say a couple of things.

09:55 - I think at the federal level, we are definitely monitoring

09:58 - some of the changes that are being proposed.

10:00 - So, for example, there's an organization called SAMHSa

10:03 - that is the federal level mental health and substance use oversight entity.

10:08 - And the current HHS secretary is is proposing many changes, changes

10:14 - to the funding, formulas changing to, who's getting served.

10:19 - And, I, I think it's not a respect for people who have lived experience

10:25 - and their family members.

10:26 - So in our programs,

10:28 - the people who have experienced mental illness, their family members,

10:31 - those are the two critical pieces to our community and to people being healthy.

10:36 - So hearing their voices, understanding what they need,

10:39 - having them inform us about what is really important

10:42 - is something that we monitor a lot and that we really value.

10:46 - And so we're hoping that the federal government does not dismiss that.

10:50 - And then locally,

10:51 - I think at the state level as well, we're always monitoring the budget,

10:55 - specifically the county based dollars, county money that comes from the state.

10:59 - And, some from the federal block grant.

11:02 - Those are the dollars that pay for things as, as Laurie and Jen suggested,

11:06 - transportation and housing and food and those dollars

11:10 - have really been stretched and haven't been available as much as they should be.

11:14 - On the Medicaid side, that has also been, challenged.

11:18 - And we're really concerned about Medicaid and folks getting, kicked off Medicaid,

11:23 - its health insurance, and folks with mental illness

11:26 - and substance use services absolutely need Medicaid coverage in order to access

11:30 - the medications they might need, the treatment interventions, etc..

11:33 - So on top of that, right with the The block grant, SAMHSa,

11:37 - we can't forget about the 988 funding,

11:41 - which is a federal funding, and that is a program

11:44 - that is across the country that if you call nine, eight eight,

11:48 - that's the crisis line.

11:50 - So there's been a lot of promotions about that.

11:52 - If you look outside, there's lots of billboards

11:54 - that are promoting nine, eight, eight.

11:56 - So there was some talk about, you know, is that going to continue.

11:59 - And our states across, you know, and so where is that funding.

12:03 - And hopefully we're able to talk

12:06 - this and be advocates and and keep a lot of this stuff bent.

12:09 - And then Medicaid and also Sylvania.

12:12 - There has not been additional funding for nine eight, eight.

12:16 - And in many of the states across the country, there has been so that

12:19 - without this additional funding, there can't be an expansion,

12:23 - there can't be supports.

12:25 - I live in southwestern Pennsylvania, and you don't see any billboards,

12:29 - and you don't see the kinds of things that you see here in central Pennsylvania

12:33 - and in other states. In new Jersey.

12:35 - They have billboards along the turnpike about nine, eight, eight.

12:39 - You don't have that here.

12:41 - And so we need it's somewhere to call,

12:45 - and it's someone to talk to and somewhere to go.

12:48 - There is a death by suicide every 11 minutes in the United States.

12:52 - How is your industry, you know, approaching, treatment plans

12:55 - for people and addressing this very important issue

12:58 - in our communities in southwestern Pennsylvania and even across the state,

13:02 - there are trainings for people that are evidence based national trainings.

13:07 - And in many communities they're free.

13:09 - It's called QPR, which is question, persuade and refer.

13:14 - So many people, even clinicians, sometimes, and physicians

13:18 - are afraid to ask the question, are you thinking about taking your life

13:22 - or are you thinking about killing yourself?

13:24 - Because sometimes they're afraid of they know it's a liability.

13:28 - Sometimes they're

13:29 - they think that if they ask the question that's going to cause that person

13:33 - to want to take their life, and sometimes they don't know how to ask.

13:38 - So this is a really good evidence based training that in many communities is free,

13:43 - that I recommend people find out about and have that training.

13:47 - We're seeing that, people at a younger age are dying by suicide.

13:52 - We also know that white males with guns,

13:55 - are the highest group of people that are dying by suicide.

13:59 - So we want to teach the public about what are the warning signs?

14:04 - What are the things that you can do?

14:06 - Not talking about anti-gun, but more about gun safety,

14:11 - that if you know someone that is talking about ending their life,

14:14 - that is very depressed, removing the guns from the home

14:18 - because some people say, oh, I block the bullets up separately from

14:21 - the guns, like, where there's a will, there's a way that often they,

14:26 - the family thinks that the guns are safe and they're really not safe,

14:29 - or there's another gun that they don't know about.

14:31 - So removing the guns from the home is a very important thing.

14:35 - And seeking treatment.

14:36 - You know, there's a tremendous stigma that we all talk about

14:40 - that goes along with mental health.

14:42 - It's okay. It's good to get treatment.

14:45 - It's a strength when you have an illness to seek treatment.

14:48 - John.

14:49 - Well, I started my career as a crisis worker in Harrisburg, for Dauphin County.

14:54 - So I worked 11 at night til seven in the morning.

14:57 - And that was the place where people would call who were either

15:01 - either actively suicidal or, thinking about suicide.

15:05 - So reinforcing that one nine, eight eight is a number that people can call

15:10 - and just talk to someone or call your crisis line,

15:14 - there's local crisis numbers in addition to nine, eight, eight.

15:18 - Here locally, there's something called connections.

15:20 - It's a new program that you can call them.

15:22 - You can they will send someone out.

15:24 - They will send a mobile team out.

15:26 - Or you can go to their facility in Harrisburg off of Cameron Street.

15:29 - So there are

15:30 - I think the most important thing is not to be afraid to talk to someone.

15:34 - And to and to share your worries, and to encourage them to talk to someone.

15:40 - Oftentimes an anonymous call is okay.

15:43 - So I used to get a lot of phone calls

15:45 - in the middle of the night, and then we would go out

15:47 - and if there was a worry, we would go out and actually see the individual

15:51 - and try to see whether or not that we might be able to help them.

15:54 - But it's also trying to instill hope that there is another day,

15:59 - you know, there is another day,

16:00 - and that there isn't anything that we can't try to work through. Jen.

16:04 - So just a couple things.

16:05 - We we do also use QPR and our counties.

16:10 - With the nine, eight, eight they have literature

16:13 - and list of questions that they have supplied.

16:17 - So any time that we have an event with Nami, we always

16:20 - bring all of the stuff out.

16:22 - There's crisis plans along with our family to family classes that we teach

16:26 - and for our youth.

16:28 - I see it as like a whole underground of social media and the social network

16:32 - and they're often having conversations online

16:36 - that on the surface, you don't see and you don't know about.

16:40 - And sometimes someone will share with their friend,

16:44 - I'm thinking about taking my life, or I have a gun or I,

16:47 - you know, and so they'll say, please keep this a secret.

16:51 - And it's really important not to keep that a secret,

16:53 - that if you're really a friend, you won't keep that a secret.

16:57 - And when you have a friend, you know that you're talking to or on the internet

17:01 - or you see cyber bullying, it's really important

17:04 - to bring that to the surface, because otherwise there's

17:07 - also some of the causative factors that have increased suicide.

17:10 - If I could just share to, the Shapiro, when he was the attorney, attorney

17:15 - general created a, line that you could call into the attorney general's office.

17:20 - And it was intended, I think, for bullying and trying to,

17:24 - you know, perhaps, get information about something

17:27 - that might be happening, like a school shooting.

17:29 - More recently, the current attorney general has also maintained that line,

17:33 - and he reported that many of the calls he gets are things around

17:37 - depression, suicide, certainly still bullying.

17:40 - But it's really another resource and that we can certainly share that.

17:44 - Then for our viewers at home, how can we support a person

17:48 - that's seeking treatment, a loved one, a friend?

17:51 - What should that person do?

17:52 - What kind of symptoms should they be looking at?

17:54 - And Jen started down that path.

17:55 - But what are some of the symptoms they should be focused on?

17:58 - I again, sometimes people think is depression

18:01 - as somebody who's just like sitting there or they're sleeping a lot,

18:05 - but sometimes there's other symptoms of depression like increase agitation.

18:09 - That can be a symptom of someone being depressed.

18:12 - The we mentioned social isolation.

18:15 - We also like negative thinking.

18:18 - People can experience anxiety, being nervous.

18:22 - Sometimes people eat too much.

18:25 - Sometimes people eat too little.

18:28 - Sometimes people engage in high risk behaviors.

18:32 - It could be with driving too fast or speeding.

18:35 - It could be gambling.

18:37 - Things that they don't usually, usually do.

18:40 - And noticing the person, they're thinking differently.

18:45 - Their personality could be changing.

18:47 - And I think it's important to try to address that with a person

18:51 - gently, not in a negatively confrontational manner.

18:55 - But again, I care about you. Manner.

18:58 - And also, you know, the whole concept of hope.

19:02 - It doesn't have to be like this.

19:03 - It doesn't have to stay like this.

19:05 - You know, there's ways that we can help you feel better.

19:10 - Am I a couple of thoughts?

19:12 - One is, you know, first off, this is kind of like a birth to death scenario.

19:15 - So we used to often talk about, you know, children, very young children

19:20 - as well as, you know, school age kids, transition age youth, adults

19:25 - and older adults all can experience symptoms of mental health challenges.

19:29 - So anything from depression and anxiety

19:32 - and ADHD and, those who are on the spectrum for autism,

19:36 - and as seniors, you know, depression, loneliness, dementia, etc..

19:41 - So one is, you know, acknowledging that there's something that's different

19:45 - about that person and then encouraging them

19:48 - to just talk to someone and it's really talking to someone trusted.

19:51 - So it might be their family member, it might be their minister,

19:54 - it might be a neighbor, it could be a professional.

19:57 - But having them really connect to someone and then really seek

20:01 - professional help as they can.

20:03 - The research shows that having one person that you can talk to

20:07 - and go to is really key to getting help.

20:11 - It's really key to improving your mental health.

20:14 - And for those who have a mental illness, it helps them to recover.

20:19 - And I just want to talk about a term that we use in the mental health

20:23 - field called recovery.

20:24 - And that means that someone that has an illness

20:28 - can learn how to live with that illness,

20:31 - and they can live a bright

20:34 - and fulfilled life, even with that illness and being on the path to recovery,

20:40 - people can be in recovery as their term,

20:43 - as they're getting well and they're staying well.

20:47 - Jen. Well, thinking about that, it is a family disease.

20:52 - You know, we're all affected by that one person that is sick in the family.

20:57 - So being educated, having that extra support with our family members is key.

21:03 - Because the other part of this is if if we don't know how to respond

21:06 - and talk to that person, we can also kick them into behavior.

21:12 - You know, I have a saying energy breeds energy.

21:15 - Are we improving in access to care and overall recovery rates?

21:18 - Are we being successful in that regard?

21:22 - I think we're making progress,

21:24 - but it's the whole access to care

21:28 - and that is related to funding.

21:30 - And so if the county if the state loses some of its funding

21:35 - or the state is not able to fund properly the mental health system, then

21:40 - that impacts the level of care available to people across the lifespan, I think.

21:46 - So I want to emphasize that, and I think the mental health

21:50 - system has been struggling with being underfunded for for decades.

21:54 - Cuts were made decades ago that were never restored.

21:58 - And so, you know, that, like if you were working

22:01 - and your salary was cut and never restored, you would start to struggle

22:05 - because the cost of everything increases, including the cost of maintaining

22:09 - a workforce.

22:10 - So so I think access has improved,

22:14 - the Health Choices program, the county's taking on that responsibility.

22:18 - You know, again, over 25 years ago has brought tremendous

22:22 - access and financial support to communities.

22:25 - Not everyone's on Medicaid.

22:27 - So that's one issue.

22:28 - And secondly, it doesn't pay for those social supports that folks need,

22:32 - which has been traditionally completely underfunded,

22:35 - but I would say is coming out of Covid just like most other places.

22:40 - Other, employers, you know, I think the agencies are really struggling

22:44 - with workforce.

22:45 - They're trying to kind of re,

22:47 - imagine what it could look like because this is direct service.

22:51 - You're not dying.

22:52 - We do have some tele, experiences, but it is mostly the relationship you have

22:57 - with another human being, counselor or, you know, therapists,

23:02 - whomever that really can make a difference in the person's life.

23:05 - And so I think we're still trying to to think that through.

23:08 - And how that might look.

23:09 - Again, I think it's really important if people have questions of our

23:14 - if your viewers have questions,

23:15 - you know, there's there's county government is responsible

23:19 - for mental health and substance use and other human services in Pennsylvania.

23:23 - That is always a point of reference.

23:25 - Along with the advocacy groups like Mental Health Association and Nami.

23:29 - Also we have something called the Pennsylvania mental Health Consumers.

23:33 - Association, which represents those individuals

23:35 - who are living with a mental illness or, a substance use issue.

23:38 - So there's all of those advocacy organizations that can help you

23:42 - navigate this.

23:43 - But county government is a good starting point.

23:46 - Jenn, I agree with that.

23:48 - As far as access, I think because people are talking about it more,

23:53 - I think that it is in the forefront right now.

23:56 - I think mental health, is it a topic that's really important.

24:01 - So we're trying to figure out

24:02 - how are we working, how are we getting people to care?

24:05 - The connections, that Joan talked about that is new in our area.

24:09 - So that is a a walk in center, you know, kind of like a reset place

24:15 - that is new that you can go to without means.

24:19 - So that is awesome.

24:20 - The other piece that we do a lot more telehealth.

24:24 - So there are people that don't want to leave their house

24:26 - and that I that I've noticed since Covid that, there are a lot of people

24:30 - that still don't like to come out and crowds, so they feel more comfortable

24:35 - being on their computer with their psychologist or a psychiatrist.

24:39 - So we have more access to that.

24:41 - But we can do a lot better.

24:43 - We need a lot more licensed therapist.

24:46 - Even people moving in to our state like that's tricky of of getting them licensed.

24:51 - So I think they're looking at that as far as the process,

24:55 - if you're coming from another state, you need to go through a whole new

24:58 - licensing process to practice in our state.

25:02 - So things like that are being looked at.

25:04 - So that's all good.

25:06 - And I would only suggest that, you know, I often say to folks,

25:08 - it's not for the weak of heart.

25:10 - I mean, one of the things that has happened over time is

25:12 - we have just made our health care system pretty complicated.

25:15 - And it it is hard to navigate.

25:18 - So, for example, someone's poor.

25:20 - They also may be having, you know, unusual thoughts or they might be ill that day.

25:25 - And so they're trying to call their case manager.

25:27 - They have limited phone, you know, phone, access.

25:30 - And then that person is has them on hold for 20 minutes,

25:34 - and then they're trying

25:34 - to call the transportation provider, and then they're trying to call the agency.

25:38 - So we don't make it as easy as we could because people come

25:42 - with complicated situations.

25:44 - They're not coming just to go see you.

25:46 - They're coming because they also need they need to get the transportation there.

25:50 - They need to get the money to pay for the prescription.

25:52 - They need to get to the pharmacy.

25:54 - So again, I think it is trying to have those navigators

25:57 - and those individuals, family members, caseworkers, others

26:00 - who can help you kind of pull that together

26:03 - and give you the support you need are is really critical.

26:06 - And and there's a bit of a shortage.

26:08 - And so we still have a lot of work to do in order to make that happen.

26:11 - And in addition to that, people who live in rural and semi-rural areas,

26:16 - I mean, we have we have mental health associations across the state

26:19 - of Pennsylvania, and they vary from really urban areas,

26:22 - more like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to more rural and semi-rural areas.

26:27 - And people have trouble accessing transportation

26:30 - there may not be an easy way to get from here to there.

26:33 - There may not even be a way to get from here to there.

26:37 - There are places where people can't get a cell phone signal.

26:40 - You know, we talk about telehealth, you know, telehealth.

26:43 - I can't even access that because of the the signal in their area.

26:49 - So that, you know, we still have a lot to do.

26:52 - And I just also wanted to mention that for people who have private insurance,

26:56 - often on the back of your card, there will be a number,

26:59 - a special number to call if you're having a mental health

27:02 - or substance called behavioral health substance use issue.

27:05 - And so for people that do have insurance, that's a place to start to try

27:09 - to find providers that are in your area that will accept your insurance.

27:13 - Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for this very important subject.

27:16 - Thanks so much for joining us, Lori. How can we get more information?

27:19 - I think if you want more information about the organizations that I represent,

27:23 - look up the Mental health association in Pennsylvania.

27:27 - And also there's mental health America.

27:29 - Sean, thanks for all of your service for so many years.

27:32 - We have more information, I think really, staying in touch

27:35 - with your local advocacy community is a great place to start.

27:39 - And really taking advantage

27:41 - of the mental health associations, the local Nami in county government.

27:45 - And then we have more information on Nami.

27:47 - Our local Nami is Nami cpr.org.

27:52 - So get Ahold of us, find out about the classes that we are offering.

27:56 - We're out there being advocates in our community.

27:58 - I'd like to thank our guests for joining us today.

28:00 - We appreciate their professional and compassionate efforts.

28:04 - Have a great day. Thank you.

28:33 - This program has been paid

28:34 - for by the sponsor and does not reflect the views of PCN.