00:10 - We are joined today by Jacqueline Beatty,

00:12 - associate professor of history at York College of Pennsylvania.

00:15 - What was the Ladies Association of Philadelphia?

00:19 - The Ladies Association of Philadelphia was the first

00:22 - female voluntary association in, the United States.

00:27 - It was made up of, more than 30 largely

00:31 - elite white women who, in 1780,

00:35 - which was a particularly difficult, time in the American war for independence.

00:40 - The essentially went door to door

00:42 - soliciting money from families and especially women

00:46 - across the city of Philadelphia that they would then use to contribute to,

00:51 - the Continental Army, which was much needed at the time.

00:55 - How did this association come about?

00:58 - So, as I said, 1780

01:00 - was a very difficult year for the revolution.

01:03 - It was, I mean, a bit of an economic crisis

01:07 - in the early 1780s as well, with inflation being very high,

01:10 - and the Continental Army, not just lacking in supplies,

01:15 - but even lacking in food and clothing,

01:18 - which affected morale significantly.

01:21 - So there were, a lot of

01:25 - kind of essays and calls in local newspapers,

01:29 - talking about things that needed to be done

01:31 - for the Continental Army and the revolutionary cause.

01:34 - And that was kind of in the late spring of 1780.

01:37 - And from that, these elite Philadelphia women,

01:40 - kind of took it upon themselves to organize.

01:44 - Prior to the Revolutionary War.

01:46 - What was life like for women in Philadelphia?

01:49 - Well, it depends upon,

01:51 - a lot of factors, especially race and class.

01:55 - But if we're talking about these same elite white women,

02:00 - it depended a lot upon politics in the revolution.

02:04 - A few years prior, the city of Philadelphia

02:08 - was under occupation by the British forces.

02:11 - And elite women were in kind of a strange position,

02:16 - because the elite British officers who would have been socializing

02:21 - in Philadelphia at the time, who were occupying the city,

02:24 - would invite them to their social events.

02:28 - So after the British

02:31 - kind of left the city, after, Philadelphia was no longer

02:35 - occupied by British forces, there was a lot of, kind of,

02:40 - I don't know how to phrase

02:40 - this exactly, but the reputations of some of these women

02:43 - who were socializing with British officers, were kind of tarnished.

02:48 - So there was also a kind of impetus among these elite white women

02:54 - that they needed to demonstrate that they were, in fact, dedicated patriots

02:58 - and not Tories, and that these efforts could kind of demonstrate that as well.

03:04 - And when the war did kick off, how did that impact the day to day

03:07 - life of the women that you were talking about in Philadelphia?

03:10 - Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of hard, for us to understand

03:15 - how difficult and devastating conflicts like this were.

03:19 - Because the war was being fought on what is now, you know, U.S.

03:23 - soil.

03:25 - And would have been affecting these communities greatly.

03:27 - So, I think for most women, the biggest hardships

03:32 - would have been having partners and sons who were called

03:37 - to, serve in the militia or the Continental Army.

03:42 - And would have thus been absent from their homes.

03:45 - But also the kind of economic management of the household,

03:49 - of which women were a central part even before the war

03:52 - became all the more difficult with the economic crises.

03:56 - Kind of Britain putting a lot of restrictions

04:00 - on trade with, the colonies at that time.

04:03 - So women were kind of compelled to take up.

04:08 - And even more important role in the household and in the domestic

04:12 - economy as well.

04:14 - Who was Esther de Boer Reed?

04:17 - Esther Reed was actually, a British woman.

04:20 - She was born in England and, didn't come to the United States

04:24 - until, I think it was 1770.

04:27 - And married Joseph Reed, who was then the president of Pennsylvania.

04:32 - So a fairly elite Philadelphian leader.

04:37 - She I think around,

04:41 - you know, the time that the revolution started in 1775.

04:44 - Really wanted to demonstrate her patriotism.

04:48 - So she, along with her husband,

04:51 - kind of wrote and talked about and hosted

04:55 - other elite, members of Philadelphia society in their home

04:58 - to kind of plan kind of patriotic strategies, as it were.

05:02 - So she was a kind of equal partner in her marriage

05:05 - in terms of, serving in this patriotic role.

05:09 - What was the sentiment of an American woman and what impact did it have?

05:14 - So the

05:14 - sentiments of an American woman was a broadside or a kind of single sheet,

05:19 - as we would call it, printed by a guy named John.

05:23 - John Dunlap in 1780.

05:25 - Technically, the pamphlet is signed by an anonymous woman.

05:31 - But most scholars attribute this text to Esther Reed herself.

05:37 - So it was in a lot of ways, a call

05:39 - to like minded women to be, in her words.

05:43 - Female patriots.

05:45 - The broadside cites a lot of,

05:49 - kind of historically famous women from antiquity.

05:53 - As well as figures that women would have been familiar worth like Joan of Arc.

05:57 - So it kind of uses this kind of popular understanding of history at the time

06:02 - to demonstrate that women have always kind of served in patriotic roles.

06:07 - So it was the duty of American women to join in as well.

06:11 - So there's a lot of calls for specifically

06:14 - female patriotism in this pamphlet.

06:17 - But alongside that, as it was printed, were,

06:21 - kind of the goals and purposes of the Ladies Association of Philadelphia,

06:26 - what they intended to do and for what purpose?

06:30 - Now, I have a quote here from this pamphlet that says, quote,

06:34 - our ambition is kindled by the same of those heroines of antiquity

06:38 - who have rendered their sects illustrious,

06:39 - and have proved to the universe that if the weakness of our Constitution,

06:43 - if opinion and manners did not forbid us to march to glory

06:46 - by the same paths as the men, we should, we should at least equal

06:51 - and sometimes surpass them in our love for the public good, unquote.

06:55 - Was that a common thought process between for women at the time,

06:58 - or was she trying to rally at people who've never thought like this before?

07:02 - No, that was pretty common, actually.

07:04 - It was understood that.

07:06 - I mean, certainly politics is and was gendered in a lot of ways.

07:11 - And there was an understanding, at least,

07:14 - certainly among women, white women of the elite classes,

07:18 - that a public political role was kind of the sphere or space of men.

07:23 - But that's where you kind of see this language here

07:27 - about how there is a kind of parallel but different

07:31 - political track for women, and one that is specific to their gender.

07:39 - You know, in,

07:39 - in the 18th century, there were, pretty concrete understandings

07:43 - of what men's and women's natural kind of God ordained gender roles were.

07:48 - And those were pretty popularly accepted.

07:51 - So they kind of translated in this way to designate that women

07:54 - did have a political role to fulfill, but it was particular to their gender.

07:59 - Now, you mentioned that the Ladies Association of Philadelphia

08:03 - raised money for the Continental Army when they needed it the most.

08:07 - How much money did they raise?

08:09 - So over, there that summer of their activism,

08:13 - they raised 300,000 continental dollars.

08:16 - But it's difficult to kind of translate exactly what that would be

08:20 - in kind of present day U.S.

08:22 - dollars, because the the continental dollar.

08:25 - Not only was it a currency from about 250 years ago,

08:28 - but it was highly inflated at the time.

08:32 - It was one of the kind of central economic crises of the mid

08:35 - revolutionary period, that inflation was rampant

08:38 - and the Continental Congress couldn't get a hold on it.

08:41 - So, I mean, it was certainly still quite a bit of money.

08:45 - And I think one thing to point out as well is that,

08:49 - what the Ladies Association did was kind of divide the city of Philadelphia

08:54 - into 10 or 11 sections and then assigned its members, basically,

09:00 - you know, go canvass your district and don't skip any doors.

09:05 - You know,

09:05 - it doesn't matter if it looks like this house is kind of rundown,

09:08 - and maybe the people inside don't have a lot of money.

09:11 - It's our duty to check every single one.

09:13 - And they did obviously have, a number of big dollar donors.

09:19 - But they also had small dollar donors to, a significant portion

09:24 - donating between 1 and 5 continental dollars.

09:27 - So you can see that the, participation

09:30 - from across the city ran the gamut of of class.

09:34 - How was the association structured?

09:38 - Yeah.

09:38 - So, one of the more kind of significant aspects of the Ladies Association

09:43 - is that they were completely run by the women in the group.

09:47 - They kind of created a structural hierarchy

09:51 - where Esther Reed was kind of in charge of the group.

09:56 - She died pretty, I don't remember the exact date, but around this time as well.

10:00 - And then, Sarah Franklin Basch, who was, Benjamin Franklin's

10:04 - daughter, kind of stepped into that role after Esther Reed's, death.

10:09 - So they did kind of create a hierarchical structure within the association

10:13 - as some of the similar, male only clubs would have done at the time.

10:17 - Now, this was a time before television or social media.

10:20 - How did these women, get other women to join their organization

10:23 - without this modern communications method that we have now?

10:27 - Yeah. Kind of through two key ways.

10:30 - So especially after the great success that the Ladies Association of Philadelphia

10:35 - had, newspapers across the country kind of reprinted, information

10:41 - about their success, how much money they raised, how they went about doing it.

10:44 - You know what happened as a result?

10:46 - So there were some groups that were formed across the country

10:49 - that mimicked that.

10:51 - Based on what they saw in the newspapers,

10:54 - but also when we're talking about a very small percentage of the population

10:58 - and this elite white class, they knew each other across state lines.

11:02 - So they had their own kind of informal social networks

11:08 - where they would write letters to each other across states.

11:11 - And, women in other states would replicate that.

11:14 - So, I think the first to do so were women

11:18 - in new Jersey, then followed by women in Maryland.

11:22 - And after that, Virginia.

11:24 - So none of those groups raised

11:27 - quite as much money as the Philadelphia organization.

11:30 - But they all did raise money

11:31 - and did exactly what the Ladies Association did

11:34 - in buying linen materials for clothing and then putting together

11:38 - the clothing themselves to donate to the continental forces.

11:41 - Did the association have any,

11:43 - physical meet ups, or was it all through word of mouth?

11:47 - Oh, no. Yes, they certainly did.

11:49 - And they would have been kind of running in the same social circles as well.

11:52 - So it's hard for us to exactly trace.

11:55 - Their meetings, they didn't to our,

11:58 - to our knowledge, didn't have, kind of minutes kept.

12:01 - Those records don't really exist, but, they also,

12:05 - you know, they rather than kind of host people in their homes to ask for money,

12:09 - which was more of the traditional, kind of pattern at that time.

12:13 - They went door to door in the city of Philadelphia.

12:15 - So they were

12:17 - kind of walking again in neighborhoods where they might have never been before.

12:21 - And speaking to women of a very different class,

12:24 - which some of them worried, and other Philadelphians kind of judged,

12:29 - you know, these elite white women being out in public asking for money,

12:34 - soliciting money door to door was maybe not the most, respectable thing,

12:39 - but they were able to, kind of make the argument

12:43 - that this was an extension of their kind of domestic female patriotism.

12:48 - Right?

12:48 - Whether they believe that or not is hard to tell,

12:50 - but they were at least able to use it as an argument.

12:53 - You mentioned, Benjamin Franklin's daughter, who were some other,

12:56 - notable women involved at this association.

12:59 - Yeah.

12:59 - I don't have, the subscription list on me, but most of the, women

13:04 - who were participants were married to wealthy, patriotic Philadelphia

13:10 - men, or in some way related to them.

13:15 - Again, this they kind of, like, kept it in, in one kind of social group.

13:19 - So Philadelphia's wealthiest, wives would have been involved in this.

13:24 - Can you talk who who were patriots?

13:26 - I should say there were plenty of stories as well.

13:29 - Can you talk a little bit about,

13:30 - Martha Washington's connection to the association?

13:33 - Sure.

13:34 - So, George Washington knew Esther Reed, certainly through her husband.

13:40 - And the two kind of corresponded back and forth about the best way

13:44 - to use the money, because originally, the Ladies Association

13:49 - really wanted to provide the money to the continental forces

13:52 - as a kind of supplement to their income, which was severely lacking at this time.

13:57 - They wanted, especially as morale was quite low.

14:01 - They wanted to demonstrate to the Continental Army

14:03 - that the American people did support them and did appreciate what they were doing.

14:08 - And they thought the best way to do

14:09 - that would be to just kind of provide them cash.

14:11 - But Washington was fearful

14:14 - that the cash payments would frustrate the continental forces

14:20 - because the dollars were so, inflation was such a problem.

14:24 - But also, he was frankly worried that they would spend it on alcohol.

14:28 - And what they were really in need of were clothes.

14:33 - Lack of clothing was causing morale issues and mutinies in a lot of cases.

14:38 - So he kind of consistently wrote back to Esther Reed that she should be.

14:42 - And in the Ladies Association should be focused on that.

14:45 - And eventually Martha Washington was a kind of central

14:48 - point of contact for these elite women in making these arrangements.

14:53 - So when other organizations in different states were mimicking these efforts,

14:58 - they essentially were told to reach out directly to Martha Washington in camp.

15:03 - Or if she's not there, George is fine, right?

15:06 - So primarily focusing on getting in touch with Martha Washington.

15:10 - And then if she's not around, you know, getting in touch with George is okay, too.

15:15 - You talked about that.

15:16 - The people in Philadelphia not really loving the idea of women

15:20 - going door to door collecting money.

15:22 - How did their husbands feel about this?

15:24 - Yeah.

15:25 - So, again, we don't really know necessarily because we don't have,

15:28 - letters or diaries that talk specifically about this, but, I think that the women

15:33 - were very convincing in justifying their behavior.

15:37 - The sentiments of an American woman kind of laid that out from the start.

15:41 - But then again, once it was demonstrated how much money they could raise

15:45 - and the good it could do, plus the fact that what they did with the money

15:49 - was make clothing, which was a very feminine form of labor.

15:53 - So all of that was kind of reinforcing that this is an appropriate,

15:58 - kind of performance of female patriotism,

16:02 - even if, you know, the means were maybe not what folks would want.

16:06 - The and in this case, justify the means.

16:09 - I know you mentioned earlier

16:10 - this was the first society or association of its kind in the United States.

16:15 - Was there any other organization for women to be a part of prior to this?

16:20 - Formally not.

16:24 - Well, I would say yes and no.

16:26 - So a lot of the similar voluntary organizations.

16:29 - Were kind of community based.

16:31 - So things like, clubs that would fight fires or library associations.

16:37 - The library company in Philadelphia was the most famous at the time still around.

16:41 - Those were kind of, clubs

16:45 - that were created and mostly led by men.

16:49 - Women participated, but not very many.

16:53 - And it wasn't a kind of female only realm.

16:56 - They were either, kind of mixed gender with a few women

17:00 - or largely run and participated in by men.

17:05 - But there were plenty of, kind of charitable organizations

17:10 - that would have kind of fit this role that were largely

17:13 - associated with, religion and, and churches.

17:17 - But nothing quite like this in, in the United States

17:23 - after the war ended, what did these women do?

17:26 - Well, I mean, some of them were like,

17:29 - as I said, Esther Reed had passed during this period.

17:33 - But, you know, they kind of transformed,

17:36 - expectations of American women's patriotism

17:41 - and carved out a role, I think, for women that maybe folks hadn't

17:47 - expected at the time that it was possible and in some cases, necessary for women

17:54 - to express this sense of civic duty and patriotism

17:58 - and that women did have a role to play in this new American nation.

18:03 - Even if in most cases it wouldn't be a kind of formal political role.

18:09 - Is the Ladies

18:10 - Association of Philadelphia still around in some capacity?

18:14 - Not to my knowledge, but I think you can kind of see,

18:18 - various forms of, of groups that are descendants of this idea, right?

18:24 - Certainly there are.

18:26 - You know, I couldn't even, you know, untold numbers of,

18:29 - charitable organizations where women are creating this

18:34 - organization, running this organization, and it's explicitly women centric or,

18:39 - kind of only open to women and often serves patriotic roles.

18:44 - So it's not that there is a kind of direct line

18:47 - from the Ladies Association to the present day, but the kind of work

18:51 - that it did was, you know, modeled by its contemporaries

18:54 - across the United States, but continues to be done so today as well.

18:58 - We've been speaking with Jacqueline Bailey, associate professor of history

19:01 - at York College of Pennsylvania.

19:03 - Thank you for your time. Thank you.

19:07 - Hey.