00:00 - The Capital Blue Cross Forum is sponsored in part

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00:06 - Good morning

00:08 - and welcome to this, the Public Affairs

00:10 - Forum, sponsored by Cross Capital.

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00:21 - Lehigh Valley.

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00:38 - Our format's the same.

00:40 - Our guests will make a brief presentation followed

00:43 - by a question and answer session moderated by me.

00:46 - If you, if you are a member of the live broadcast and you wish to ask

00:51 - a question of our guest, please submit it through the Q&A function and I'll ask it.

00:56 - The whole process should last about an hour. And,

01:01 - I think you're going to enjoy this program.

01:03 - Our guest today

01:04 - is a friend of the program and a repeat guest, Senator Scott Martin.

01:08 - Lancaster County Senator Martin is the a Republican member of the Pennsylvania

01:13 - State Senate representing the 13th

01:16 - senatorial district since 2016.

01:20 - A lifelong resident of Lancaster County.

01:22 - He currently serves as the chairman

01:25 - of the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee, overseeing the development

01:29 - of the state budget and reviewing legislation for fiscal impact.

01:34 - Before his tenure in the Senate,

01:35 - Senator Martin served as a Lancaster County Commissioner, where he focused

01:39 - on government reform, reducing debt, and lowering costs for taxpayers.

01:44 - His legislative accomplishments include laws aimed at improving school safety,

01:49 - supporting pediatric cancer research,

01:52 - enhancing environmental conservation,

01:55 - and strengthening penalties for repeat DUI offenders.

01:59 - Please welcome Senator Scott Martin.

02:02 - Morning, Senator. How are you?

02:03 - Good morning, Doug. How are you doing?

02:06 - Excellent.

02:07 - I'll give you, the first words you can say.

02:11 - A few thoughts to,

02:13 - our employees and the folks around the state.

02:17 - Thank you.

02:18 - Yeah. Well, it's it's always great to be with you.

02:20 - It's it's always a very interesting time of year.

02:25 - But it's always good to let folks know what's going on up here at the Capitol.

02:28 - What we're coming from and what we're going towards.

02:31 - You know, I always like.

02:33 - And I think I did in previous years, you know, looking back,

02:36 - you know, since I met with you last time and your viewers

02:39 - is, you know, we had a lot of good wins coming out of the last budget.

02:43 - A lot of things that were really good for Pennsylvania,

02:46 - where we finally got our foot in the door with, really codifying

02:50 - some permitting regulatory reform that was long overdue for the state.

02:55 - We continued on our journey to try to make our state more competitive,

02:58 - as we need to grow with some of our or shrinking demographics.

03:04 - So really focused on, making a more competitive corporate net

03:07 - income tax, addressing the net operating loss carry forward.

03:12 - And probably one of the things I'm most proud about is, is,

03:16 - because I really love doing things that impact our kids and their futures.

03:20 - As we're able to offer a program called Grow Pay.

03:23 - And that program is really meant on getting kids

03:27 - into the high demand fields at Penn State, Pennsylvania's

03:30 - financially incentivizing them to but getting a commitment back

03:33 - that they will actually stay here and work in that high demand field

03:36 - and live in Pennsylvania, hopefully try to turn around

03:39 - some of the demographic decline that we're seeing with that future

03:43 - shrinking workforce and shrinking future tax base.

03:47 - And I'm proud to say, as we kicked off that program back in March,

03:50 - we've had over 8000 applicants to get into the grow

03:55 - PA program, and this was the first year, I was really excited about that.

03:59 - So whether you're talking about nursing and allied health, whether you're talking

04:02 - about pretty much everything in the criminal justice system

04:05 - that shortages, large animal veterinarians, architects and engineers,

04:11 - math and science teachers, and special ed teachers,

04:14 - it was really good because that's that's really going to let kids know

04:18 - where they're going to have a family sustaining job here in PA, to

04:22 - they're going to graduate with less debt, which is a really big deal

04:26 - and hopefully allows them to get to the point sooner

04:29 - where they can really plant their roots, get their first mortgage here in PA,

04:33 - whatever it might be.

04:35 - And so I was really excited,

04:37 - to see that grow and see where this growth goes into the future.

04:41 - So fast forward to today and the position we're in now.

04:45 - I think it's no secret that the Commonwealth is faced with,

04:48 - what we're predicting to be just on a baseline budget to be a $5.5

04:52 - billion structural deficit that we're going to be grappling.

04:56 - That means that the Commonwealth is going to be spending

04:59 - about $5.5 billion more than what we're taking in.

05:04 - Put aside what the governor proposed in his budget.

05:07 - Just the basic things that you need to do to pay your bills.

05:11 - Going into next year.

05:14 - And so it's why we've really been focused on trying to, you know, sound the alarm.

05:19 - That.

05:19 - Yes, as we look to make Pennsylvania more competitive, our other goal

05:23 - of making the Commonwealth fiscally stable is equally as important.

05:27 - And as, you and a lot of your viewers are aware, you know,

05:29 - you go back 3 or 4 years ago, we were a state that had negative outlook.

05:34 - We had bond downgrades.

05:35 - We had basically no money in reserve.

05:37 - I think we were either the worst

05:39 - or second the worst state in the country in terms of money and our rainy day fund.

05:43 - And, you know, we fought and negotiated to get that build up.

05:47 - And I'm happy to say that we're probably in the middle of the pack of all states

05:51 - right now.

05:51 - And that's been reflected in bond upgrades.

05:54 - It's been reflected in positive outlooks.

05:56 - You know, just yesterday,

05:57 - the governor wanted to announce that they were able to save another $71 million

06:01 - refinancing bonds at better rate because we we are more fiscally stable.

06:06 - That's on the heels of last fall, $100 million worth of savings.

06:11 - So these are all positive things.

06:12 - And of course, you also want something there in case of an emergency.

06:17 - We cannot keep dipping into that because every time

06:20 - money comes out of that, it's it's a one time injection of revenue.

06:24 - And then you have that same hole the following year.

06:27 - So what we really need to do is try to align our revenues with expenses.

06:32 - Now, what we never expected to come was a seven

06:35 - and a half increase, percent increase proposal by the governor.

06:39 - We really thought, coming into this year,

06:42 - certainly they were talking about our structural deficit,

06:46 - that we would actually see little more work towards,

06:50 - how we stabilize our revenue versus expenditures.

06:54 - What we found through hearings is, you know,

06:59 - he brought up a couple of old things that have been brought up in terms

07:02 - of generating new revenue related to, you know, things like adult use cannabis.

07:07 - He basically took his proposal from a year before,

07:10 - and he doubled the amount of revenue that he projected to come from it.

07:14 - And he actually has in his plan that he was actually going to be able

07:18 - to spend it in the current fiscal year, which I think is, really problematic.

07:23 - And I've never seen a government move that fast, to do that.

07:27 - And that's if it would actually pass.

07:29 - The other big issue was games of skill.

07:31 - These machines that have been popping up all over Pennsylvania.

07:35 - They're not in the fold like other gaming kind of devices.

07:39 - He basically took, his proposal

07:41 - any from last year, and he multiplied the revenue by five.

07:45 - From what he had predicted before.

07:48 - You know, we try and we've spent a lot of time to be very truthful

07:51 - with what's in our budget. We've gotten a lot,

07:54 - a gotten

07:55 - rid of a lot of the different gimmicks and games

07:58 - that have been used in the past to kind of mask

08:01 - some of the different problems with the budget.

08:03 - And, you know, over inflating revenues, especially on two things

08:07 - that have had a really long track record of being debated in Harrisburg.

08:12 - And I would not put in that a category of of something that I really foresee,

08:17 - at least especially with one of them, that they would get done.

08:19 - It is problematic

08:22 - when you combine that with some really,

08:25 - surprising, expenditures that we've seen,

08:30 - whether it was in Medicaid, where we've seen some ballooning costs specifically,

08:34 - when you talk about, some weight loss drugs and GLP ones, that everyone's

08:40 - been talking about and the dollar amount that it costs everyone.

08:44 - When you talk about, the Biden administration going out

08:47 - the door in December approving the Shapiro administration's 1115 waiver,

08:53 - to expand different things that the administration

08:57 - that this administration and PA could spend money on, like, paying,

09:01 - rental costs for inmates

09:03 - coming out of prison for six months and some other things.

09:07 - We were really taken aback by that.

09:09 - But we're also really keeping an eye on what is coming out of DC.

09:13 - You know, whether it's programs

09:14 - like snap, whether it's changes related to Medicaid.

09:18 - These things are so intertwined between the federal and the state level

09:22 - that, little changes

09:25 - can make a huge impact to the Commonwealth.

09:28 - So, you know, as we set the stage for, the height of our negotiations,

09:33 - I kind of liken it like right now all the negotiators are kind of

09:37 - going up on an, on a roller coaster up the hill as it keeps climbing.

09:42 - Yeah. You're hoping to hit that pinnacle?

09:44 - You know, there are some real fundamental

09:47 - things that have to be decided this year.

09:50 - Because I will say that if we were sitting here exactly

09:54 - one year from now, not multiple years down the road,

09:57 - if we do not make some changes in the way in how the Commonwealth does things,

10:01 - and if we do not, legitimately

10:05 - start making tremendous inroads into the Commonwealth structural deficit,

10:10 - I could be sitting

10:11 - with you here on the program next year because, you know, I always come back

10:14 - and we'll be talking about having a potential

10:17 - $6 billion budget hole with no money in reserves.

10:20 - And I think we all know there's only three things

10:22 - that can happen in that situation.

10:24 - And that's either

10:24 - massive program cuts, you know, massive tax increases or a combination of both.

10:30 - And so we're trying to, make sure that's

10:33 - not oh, and by the way, it'll be a gubernatorial election year.

10:36 - The whole House will be on the ballot and half the Senate.

10:40 - So this is a

10:40 - really important year to try to get things done right.

10:44 - Stabilize things, not unwind.

10:46 - A lot of that fiscal stability that we put in and continue

10:50 - to build on making this state more competitive.

10:53 - As we struggle with that aging demographic in that

10:56 - shrinking youth demographic.

10:58 - But we're committed to it.

11:00 - I realize there are some significant topics

11:03 - that are on the agenda, that from each of the parties.

11:06 - I'm sure we're going to talk about some of those today.

11:08 - And your question and answers.

11:10 - The voters gave us divided government.

11:13 - Different people, different priorities.

11:15 - And we'll do our best to, you know, make sausage,

11:20 - as they say in the legislature and come to some sort of consensus.

11:24 - But for me, I will say that consensus has to be within the bounds of,

11:29 - anything that's going to move through my committee needs to be within the bounds

11:32 - of something that protects our long term sustainability

11:36 - and does not create a bigger problem in the future.

11:39 - So, you know, with that, thank you again for having me today.

11:42 - And I look forward to the dialog here.

11:45 - Thank you for that.

11:46 - You are, one of the, the more respected voices,

11:52 - in Harrisburg on these issues.

11:54 - And so we thank you for joining us today.

11:56 - And he gave us,

11:58 - a lot of,

12:00 - information to unpack.

12:01 - And the one thing that jumps out to me, I have grandkids now, and,

12:07 - the grow PA initiative is important to me,

12:11 - as you know, obviously, as most grandparents will say, as they

12:15 - get older, they want to be able to be surrounded by their their grandkids

12:19 - and hopefully their grandkids have opportunities when they reach adulthood

12:26 - and that they can live and thrive here, as we all have.

12:29 - And so

12:31 - you say 8000 applicants for the grow PA

12:36 - initiative.

12:37 - What do you think? What do you hope

12:40 - the ultimate.

12:43 - Where where do you think

12:45 - grow PA can go if you

12:49 - in the best case scenario.

12:51 - Yeah.

12:51 - Well, I, I, I think, it'll go two different directions.

12:56 - One is, is I truly hope this goes

13:00 - where makes the lawmakers, the appropriators, the policymakers,

13:05 - makes us better investors

13:08 - of the Commonwealth, money and treating Commonwealth's tax dollars.

13:12 - As you know what, when you're using tax dollars to help someone,

13:16 - you hope there's a return some way to the taxpayer.

13:20 - You know, I would say and I say this respectfully over the generations,

13:24 - the old mantra was, we're just going to give hundreds of millions

13:27 - of 100 millions of dollars to brick and mortar institutions,

13:31 - and with the hope of keeping in-state tuition low.

13:35 - And it didn't matter what the degree was, didn't matter what the career field was.

13:40 - Certainly.

13:41 - We all know we're the second

13:42 - largest importer of out-of-state students from around the country.

13:46 - You know, and,

13:47 - you know,

13:47 - they're getting educated in these brick and mortar facilities we're funding,

13:50 - and they're going back to their home states, or kids are getting degrees

13:53 - in areas that they'll never really get a job in Pennsylvania.

13:56 - And, you know, they'll go off to another area of the country.

14:00 - So I hope this makes us better investors where, you know, we look at

14:04 - and work with industry, across the board

14:08 - and with these institutions and say, you know what?

14:10 - We've had a really good run

14:12 - of making investment and tons of kids have gotten into nursing.

14:15 - And so that's going to have this kind of impact on the industry.

14:18 - Maybe we can back off nursing just a little bit,

14:21 - because we're really seeing a shortage in the trades

14:23 - where we're really seeing a shortage in criminal justice.

14:26 - To me, I envision, you know, in an ideal world

14:31 - as lawmakers, the that accountability piece should be something

14:34 - that we're always doing and what we're looking to do.

14:36 - That's why you're also seeing with the state related,

14:39 - it's more of a focus on, performance based measurements.

14:43 - You know, our kids getting into majors again,

14:45 - high demand jobs or they staying in PA, like, these are serious questions

14:50 - because this is Pennsylvania's hard earned tax money.

14:53 - So I love the fact that this kind of was a new way of looking at things.

14:58 - It empowers families.

15:00 - It makes schools compete for those kids in their business,

15:04 - meaning they have to offer really relevant curriculum.

15:07 - Now, don't get me wrong.

15:08 - If someone's dream is to go get a degree in something that really is not needed

15:14 - in Pennsylvania or not, and that's their wish.

15:16 - That's their life dream, go do it.

15:18 - But I would say that the taxpayers maybe shouldn't have to fund that.

15:21 - And so when you also combine that with talking about kids

15:26 - graduating with less debt, certainly Pennsylvania's,

15:29 - up there as one of the worst states with debt per college debt per capita.

15:35 - This, I think, is

15:36 - the kind of thought that this lends them to not have to take as much debt.

15:40 - And as you mentioned, you know, as you being a grandparent,

15:43 - I have about, you know, four we just had our first graduate last night

15:47 - and, you know, three more over the next four years coming through the pipeline.

15:52 - You know, I want my kids at least to have the opportunity to

15:55 - to get a good job and live in PA and not have to go and move to the southeast.

16:01 - All of these states that are actively recruiting our kids

16:04 - without a state merit scholarships and wanting them to live there.

16:07 - The states that are growing.

16:08 - So I really love the concept.

16:11 - And I also and I briefly want to mention this because it's important you heard

16:15 - I mentioned about us being the second largest importer of out-of-state students.

16:20 - Boy oh boy, I want to keep more of them here.

16:22 - And so there's a companion piece with grow PA.

16:26 - It was a tuition waiver program which basically said if kids

16:30 - got into a high demand field from out of state and they ended up

16:35 - staying in Pennsylvania and working in that field, they could go to school

16:38 - at the in-state tuition rate versus the out-of-state.

16:42 - That's a significant difference at a lot of institutions.

16:46 - But that's our way of trying

16:48 - to lure more young people because other states are doing it to us.

16:52 - So that one's going to take an active, active

16:55 - marketing approach that we're still going to keep having to make adjustments to.

16:58 - I think we had, 35 or 40 kids from out of state sign up.

17:03 - Hey, that's 35 or 40 kids that weren't going to be here before that are now

17:06 - committing to be here for 12 months for every year they participate.

17:11 - I think that's a good thing.

17:13 - And it's a wise use of taxpayer dollars in Pennsylvania.

17:17 - You have always been a strong advocate

17:21 - of, of the state's higher education.

17:25 - Infrastructure.

17:27 - Proud graduate of Millersville, a proud graduate of Shippensburg.

17:30 - You know, the state system is, is an important,

17:35 - institution in this state.

17:37 - As is Penn State and the other public, universities.

17:42 - They're struggling at the moment, too.

17:45 - Penn State recently announced the closure of seven branch campuses.

17:50 - One is close to where I happened to live.

17:52 - Mann Alto camp campus.

17:55 - And then, you know, obviously, one in York, is in your backyard.

18:00 - Obviously the state system schools are having their own

18:03 - challenges.

18:07 - What what should we do?

18:09 - Can we do for that?

18:12 - Those, institutions to make

18:15 - Pennsylvania public, higher ed, more efficient,

18:20 - more effective, more responsive to, the citizenry?

18:25 - Well, it's a great question.

18:27 - And they're always difficult decisions, to make and conversations to have.

18:32 - You know, Pennsylvania actually is one of the top two states

18:36 - with the actual number of, higher

18:39 - education institutions within its borders.

18:42 - However, when you look at where the numbers are going,

18:47 - in terms of our demographics, when you look at the number of young

18:52 - people just this is a general statement who are now looking at

18:56 - entering the workforce right away, right out of high school.

19:00 - You have a lot more employers

19:01 - that are not requiring a college degree to get their foot in the door.

19:05 - I mean, heck, even the the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Governor Shapiro's

19:09 - first executive order removed the college degree requirement for 87,000 jobs.

19:14 - There's a changing dynamic out there.

19:16 - And as you know, change isn't always easy.

19:19 - You know, there's been times when people are brought up.

19:21 - Should we look at three year degrees?

19:23 - Well, then all the pitchforks and the torches come out, you know?

19:26 - But, you know, you for me.

19:29 - What this means is that you

19:31 - you have to be able to be nimble to rightsize.

19:36 - Because if you don't,

19:38 - then your resources are being used to basically

19:42 - prop up certain institutions, at the expense of us

19:46 - being able to do more like in the conversation with perhaps.

19:50 - Right.

19:51 - Because those costs, they're going to be borne either

19:54 - by the taxpayer or by those families through usually debt.

19:58 - Right.

19:59 - And so, it's not difficult, but

20:02 - we it's it is difficult and it's not easy

20:06 - to make those decisions, as we saw recently with Penn State.

20:10 - You know, they had some entities that had 300

20:13 - students on campus campuses used to educate thousands.

20:17 - You know, we have some patchy schools.

20:18 - And I use this because from my time on the board of governors,

20:22 - it was maddening to me that we would have 12 professors in a major where we had

20:26 - ten kids enrolled in that major at certain institutions.

20:31 - The system isn't is

20:34 - is often resisting, doing those change.

20:37 - And I get it.

20:38 - Those are real, people on the other end.

20:41 - It has impacts and communities.

20:43 - But if we don't make the right decisions with that infrastructure.

20:49 - Right. I'm not saying we can't be smart, you know?

20:51 - You know, I look at if we ever had to close a college campus that we owned.

20:56 - You know, why aren't we matching that up with some of our economic

20:59 - development efforts when Pennsylvania is known to not have enough job

21:03 - ready or site ready, plots and,

21:06 - to land in areas to bring new huge employers.

21:10 - Well, here you're talking about massive campuses

21:12 - with all the infrastructure, electricity and water and sewer.

21:16 - You got to overlap that and go to a community and say, yes,

21:20 - we know you may be losing out here, but, we're going to help bring this here.

21:25 - And this conversation isn't just higher ed.

21:28 - You know, we did wonderful work.

21:29 - We went from being a state that was exporting prisoners and spending

21:33 - untold millions of dollars renting bed space from other states

21:37 - to now where we legitimately could close two of our state

21:41 - correctional institutions and save over $100 million a year.

21:44 - And that's not easy because those are embedded in the community.

21:48 - But here was the reward of doing criminal justice

21:51 - reforms and doing things differently.

21:53 - And now the taxpayers can't benefit from those, efforts.

21:59 - And so we have to be smart in how we mirror up

22:02 - our economic development with where we see the right sizing occurring.

22:05 - But make no mistake about it, if you don't make those tough decisions

22:08 - again, taxpayers and families are the ones that are going to bear

22:12 - the brunt of that.

22:13 - Sadly, there are parts of the state, where we just don't see.

22:17 - I mean, we have institutions that literally, they have

22:20 - a thousand kids on campuses that were designed for 9000.

22:24 - And that whole infrastructure is there.

22:27 - I give credit.

22:28 - IUP used to be the top, school in the paci system.

22:33 - I think it had over 16, close to 17,000 kids.

22:37 - It's now below eight.

22:38 - But, you know, President School, they're working with other community leaders.

22:42 - They actually right sized everything.

22:44 - You know, they they they change our curriculum to be,

22:47 - you know, bring more people in.

22:48 - And you're seeing that occur, around the Commonwealth.

22:51 - The last thing Doug, I'll say this so people know this for too long.

22:56 - There was this mantra that they were going to start taking money

22:59 - away from the institutions that were trying to be more relevant,

23:03 - make the right decisions, be great in marketing out of state.

23:07 - I mean, they were taking $6 million from Westchester University

23:10 - who kept doing things to grow,

23:12 - and they were given to a school that refused to change.

23:14 - Same thing.

23:15 - They were taking money from Millersville and Shippensburg and Slippery Rock.

23:18 - And we fought hard, pushing back, saying,

23:20 - if you guys don't change this formula, you can't punish success.

23:24 - No one's part of a system just to be taken advantage of.

23:28 - Right.

23:28 - Everyone needs to make change will help you out

23:30 - as you make the changes, but you got to make the changes so

23:33 - you see that changing landscape going on in PA.

23:37 - And I think if we're smart about this and if we empower families,

23:41 - your grandkids, and honest with where the real jobs are and where

23:46 - the good family sustaining jobs are, we can make a much stronger system in PA.

23:52 - And I think

23:53 - we're going to be moving in that direction.

23:56 - It's one of the reasons I love having you on this program.

23:59 - You do not shy away from tough questions and tough issues,

24:03 - and that's a tough issue.

24:04 - I mean, these, schools in these communities

24:09 - are anchors, and that's always tough.

24:11 - And and you hinted to it and I think I'd like to go a little deeper into it.

24:16 - And it is the it's it's the economic development.

24:20 - It is the demographic changes.

24:22 - It is the question about.

24:27 - It. Pennsylvania,

24:29 - just in general, we have some parts of our state, and you

24:34 - represent one of those parts of the state that is growing tremendously.

24:39 - Lancaster County today versus Lancaster County 30 years ago.

24:44 - People, it's hard to recognize.

24:46 - And there are other parts of the state that really struggle.

24:50 - I ask you this question every year because it's one that that,

24:54 - quite frankly, isn't going away.

24:55 - You're seeing it in, in, in the higher ed, you're seeing it in the prisons

24:59 - that you've mentioned in the world that I'm in rural hospitals.

25:03 - Same thing that these institutions are struggling

25:07 - to make a go of it in certain parts of the state and in others,

25:12 - you have to build more parking lots.

25:14 - Because

25:16 - the demand is there.

25:17 - The question for you as a state policymaker,

25:21 - and this is a this is a difficult one.

25:23 - And I

25:25 - you know, sometimes you and I are in the in the same meetings.

25:28 - The question is, what do we do?

25:30 - How do we assist some of those communities to

25:36 - have a second chance at, at things?

25:40 - And not take to your point from those parts of the state

25:46 - that are getting it done?

25:50 - How do we do that?

25:51 - How do we, how do we manage that,

25:54 - growth and lack of growth?

25:57 - So you hit on a really important subject that doesn't get talked about enough.

26:01 - We often talk about people who leave states and go to other states,

26:05 - but what we've seen is a lot of migration going on,

26:08 - from various parts of the Commonwealth to other parts of the Commonwealth.

26:13 - And we've also seen a lot of outmigration,

26:15 - specifically, centered around one particular industry.

26:19 - And I think I'm going to talk about this because when you look at a map

26:23 - and as you can imagine, I wish we had one, we could put on your screen right now.

26:27 - Interestingly enough, where you're seeing a lot of the demographic decline,

26:31 - if I were to overlap

26:32 - that with where a lot of Pennsylvania's historic major energy producers

26:36 - and where the Marcellus Shale region is, you would be stunned.

26:41 - And sadly enough, when you when you talk about premature

26:44 - closures of plants over the last 10 to 15 years, a lot of times

26:48 - for government coming in with some really strict regulations.

26:52 - You're talking about hundreds, if not thousands of jobs.

26:56 - Sometimes that pick up and they take their job skills

27:00 - and they go to an area, sometimes West Virginia, sometimes Ohio,

27:05 - where they can utilize the job skills that they have

27:08 - because they have bills to pay their kids or grandkids to help put through college.

27:13 - And it's really something that

27:14 - I think there is a direct correlation, with this.

27:18 - And there's one other subject I'll get into,

27:20 - but with this one in particular, when you look at where we're seeing

27:24 - the biggest demographic declines, you have seen major plant closures.

27:28 - You're seeing where there are places that have the potential of a new,

27:31 - like, natural gas plant come online, and then it falls through.

27:36 - And a lot of that's tied into really some, well,

27:38 - I believe to be wrongheaded policy decisions not fully embracing

27:42 - if you if, if you can't fully embrace this industry,

27:45 - you're never going to be able to do the things that you say people claim

27:49 - to care about in terms of doing it correctly, doing it safely.

27:52 - And unfortunately, it's tied to billions of dollars

27:55 - worth of investment and it's tied to thousands of jobs and opportunities.

27:58 - And PA

27:59 - and unfortunately, it's tied to a lot of Pennsylvania's demographic challenges.

28:03 - We're taking a tool that they have in their tool belt

28:05 - and pulling it out of the tool belt and saying, you can't use it.

28:09 - And that ripple effect is huge.

28:12 - And if you live in Lancaster, right, or if you live in certain parts of central

28:18 - PA or on the collar areas of Philadelphia, you know,

28:22 - we would never guess that we're seeing a massive decline

28:25 - of kids coming through our schools or small kindergarten.

28:29 - But however, when you look statewide

28:31 - and I sit here and tell you that just two years ago,

28:34 - we had the small kindergarten enrollment statewide

28:38 - since 1986.

28:41 - And if it's not happening here, that means it's really happening.

28:44 - Bad in other places.

28:47 - That's what we're faced with right now in PA.

28:51 - And so right now that Reggie case, the regional greenhouse

28:55 - Gas Initiative, for your folks that are that may not be familiar with it.

29:00 - We basically

29:01 - took the, the former governor, Wolf, and now Governor Shapiro to court

29:06 - saying governors cannot implement taxes unilaterally and governors

29:11 - cannot enter into interstate compacts unilaterally.

29:15 - Historically, all of these have to be approved by the General Assembly.

29:19 - Governor Wolf, originally, and the value of it now is 1.3 billion,

29:23 - carbon tax, which been passed on the consumers.

29:26 - It's really scared away a lot of investment

29:28 - in PA, the, we won in Commonwealth court.

29:33 - And this is where Governor Shapiro comes in.

29:35 - He chose to appeal it to the Supreme Court to maintain his executive authority.

29:41 - Respectfully, I don't think anyone will ever say

29:44 - a governor has the executive authority to unilaterally implement a tax.

29:48 - And that especially one that has such devastating consequences

29:52 - on energy bills, things that are important to hospitals, to households,

29:56 - to food production systems, manufacturing across the board.

30:00 - So the Supreme Court just heard that a couple weeks ago,

30:03 - the oral arguments in that case.

30:04 - This is a one of the probably one of the biggest deals, I'd say,

30:08 - facing this Commonwealth in a very, very long time

30:11 - and will have tremendous implications on the future of Pennsylvania's

30:16 - economic rebound, on the future of Pennsylvania's demographic rebound.

30:21 - And quite frankly,

30:22 - on the costs of everything moving forward and what it will be.

30:26 - And PA.

30:27 - So definitely one to keep your eye on.

30:29 - The second one, Doug, I'll just have to mention this.

30:32 - And I know you're very familiar with this too.

30:35 - We can expect rural

30:39 - hospitals also, or rural health care providers

30:44 - or rural dentists to continue to exist

30:48 - with low reimbursement rates, because if you don't have a lot of people

30:53 - that you can make up bulk quantity coming through your door in an area,

30:57 - the kind of maybe make up a little bit for some of those lower reimbursement

31:00 - rates, then the financial models are completely upside down.

31:05 - There's no value.

31:06 - No one goes in the business to lose money.

31:10 - And I think you're going to continue to see.

31:11 - And so this is another reason why we should want to see growth.

31:15 - Yes I want to see better reimbursement rates for our folks.

31:17 - But the other part of this is, is you need bodies there for them to serve.

31:22 - And if you don't have enough from a given area, it's a double whammy

31:25 - that financially,

31:26 - it just does not make sense for them to be able to continue to operate.

31:30 - And that's why it's heartbreaking. And we're seeing that happen all over

31:35 - 100%, 100%.

31:37 - I mean, you know, and we've talked about this, that

31:41 - that the economic circumstances that created the need

31:45 - for the hospital or the higher that the college or university

31:51 - no longer exist.

31:52 - And so how do you manage that?

31:55 - And that's a challenge.

31:56 - And, it's a challenge challenge for you as well.

32:00 - And you mentioned at the end of your comments

32:03 - and you started into energy and IT folks don't know.

32:07 - You have been a very strong proponent of our state's energy concerns,

32:12 - whether that be cold, whether that be natural gas,

32:16 - etc., etc..

32:19 - And you've also said that it's

32:21 - the one thing we've got to get right if our future is to be to be bright.

32:25 - I didn't obviously mean that to rhyme, but so,

32:28 - but, and so my

32:30 - my question to you is if you were king for a day

32:35 - and you could make any one decision

32:39 - or two multiple decisions from the energy perspective

32:44 - to get it right, what would those be?

32:48 - What, 100%?

32:49 - The very first thing is I would remove this Reggie appeal,

32:53 - because it's literally scaring away billions of dollars of investment in PA.

32:57 - And if court rules that a gov.

33:00 - I have severe worries about the implications of governors

33:03 - being able to tax.

33:04 - But but, this will have

33:07 - a really harmful effect across everything in Pennsylvania.

33:13 - You know,

33:13 - it will increase your hospital, your health care costs because guess what?

33:17 - Energy runs your health care systems.

33:19 - It'll increase your food costs because energy is used to do it.

33:22 - Hopefully people see what I'm getting at here.

33:25 - It's one of the number one things that tools that can be used is affordable.

33:29 - Reliable energy is such a foundation of economic growth.

33:35 - I'm not saying that I want people to do it dirty, right?

33:38 - I'm saying is that we need it.

33:40 - Let's do it right and let's maintain it.

33:43 - Now the other part of this which has not come up yet, which I have to

33:47 - mention, the other thing that's going on here

33:51 - is that you have the PJM, which is the grid operator

33:55 - has been warning for a couple of years now that Pennsylvania

33:59 - is not going to be able to produce enough capacity to meet its needs.

34:04 - But we're not be able to produce enough energy to meet our capacity needs.

34:07 - A couple of years ago, we had, in our last polar vortex.

34:11 - They were telling people to turn off Christmas lights.

34:14 - There were actually worried about the grid collapsing.

34:17 - Just a few weeks ago, we had another warning of rolling blackouts.

34:22 - Pennsylvania, which is historically supposed to be

34:24 - one of the largest energy producers in the United States, behind Texas.

34:29 - And now we're behind Ohio.

34:29 - But, things that are never been heard of before in PA, folks, I cannot underscore.

34:35 - Yes, it's very important economically.

34:37 - It can really help lower cost.

34:39 - It can draw big manufacturers to come back to PA

34:42 - because it's a huge part of their cost model is affordable, reliable energy.

34:46 - But here's the part I say that and I don't want to scare folks.

34:49 - But here's the reality.

34:51 - When energy grids fail, people die.

34:56 - It just happened a few years ago, Valentine's Day, Texas.

35:00 - And that's certainly a much warmer client climate than in Pennsylvania.

35:04 - And I say this because the backbone of our grid is baseload capacity.

35:10 - That is nuclear gas.

35:13 - And coal, if you would look at a pie chart, right,

35:18 - it would

35:18 - basically look like the entire pie chart, except for this little tiny sliver,

35:22 - which is renewables and renewables are only a little tiny sliver,

35:26 - because they only can produce that much because they're intermittent

35:30 - sources of energy.

35:32 - What it would take to even we don't have the battery capacity

35:35 - to, to, to go to produce really more.

35:38 - But we'd also have to give up something to the tune of 60,000

35:42 - acres of farmland to have enough solar panels.

35:45 - You know, I just you think this through and the carbon footprint, those things

35:50 - to even create them and the batteries and the mining and all that.

35:54 - We have to get this right for our safety.

35:58 - We have to get this right to control costs.

36:00 - We have to get this right for job opportunities.

36:03 - And it's it's really the golden one of the golden tickets

36:08 - for Pennsylvania, especially for those parts of the state that doesn't

36:11 - you and I have just been talking about that really need a boost.

36:15 - So it will boost the entire state, but really it boosts the livelihoods

36:19 - and the population that's needed in those areas.

36:25 - Outstanding.

36:28 - If you don't mind, we can transition.

36:29 - I'm going to transition to something that that I do for a living.

36:32 - It probably gives you heartburn and that is health care.

36:36 - When you're talking about, balancing a state budget.

36:41 - It health care probably keeps you up at night.

36:44 - And, and specifically the Medicaid costs and,

36:49 - Medicaid costs are in the and the issue of Medicaid

36:52 - has been in the news, to a large extent over the last several weeks,

36:58 - principally with what they're trying to do in Washington.

37:01 - And so

37:03 - for those who are watching in Washington, they're trying

37:06 - to get their financial house in order there as well.

37:09 - And in many respects, it's a health care problem there as well.

37:14 - So my question to you is,

37:17 - obviously, Medicaid is

37:19 - a major part of the Pennsylvania state budget.

37:22 - And a lot of the money we get for

37:25 - that comes from the feds. If.

37:38 - It was them.

37:46 - Can you hear me?

37:46 - Doug I Doug you're Muted you're muted Doug

37:51 - okay can you hear me I can hear you now okay.

37:54 - Can you say just that the question part of it my question is if

37:59 - if the federal government squeezes

38:03 - what it sends to Pennsylvania,

38:06 - how hard does that make your job

38:09 - in balancing and Pennsylvania state budget?

38:12 - Well, you know, as someone in my role as the appropriations

38:15 - chairman, I'd be lying if I say I'm not watching out of, my eye.

38:20 - What's going on down there?

38:21 - I try not to get too excited

38:23 - when I see just a bill pass one chamber, because obviously, I know.

38:27 - I mean, if,

38:29 - you know, if we were worried about every bill

38:31 - that came out in the House here in Pennsylvania.

38:33 - And I tell people, you know, the it's okay, people with chambers can pass bills.

38:36 - They may not move.

38:37 - However, on a topic like Medicaid, on a topic

38:40 - like snap, on a topic like education, which are probably the, you know,

38:44 - some of the big ones, I'm very leery as we watch and see what they do.

38:49 - Now, I also want to be fair, you know, you know,

38:52 - I am someone who believes that Medicaid and what its true intent was

38:57 - for has really been we put a lot of things in the Medicaid over the years,

39:02 - and what that's done is I think it's created the dynamic that

39:06 - and certainly we've certainly put a lot of money in the Medicaid.

39:09 - I mean, when I came in the to the General Assembly, Medicaid

39:12 - was a $27 billion state and federal program.

39:15 - This is my ninth year.

39:16 - It's now 40 over 40 billion, I believe, what that number is,

39:21 - but we still are struggling with reimbursement rates.

39:25 - And what that tells me is that there's been so much has been laid on that plate

39:29 - when you combine that with the fact that, Medicaid also covers something

39:34 - that we have a lot of and that is we have a lot of seniors in Pennsylvania.

39:39 - So long term care costs and other things related to that.

39:42 - So I am hopeful, though, that they can put some guidelines on this.

39:46 - I'm just going to give you an example.

39:49 - Things that are out of our control.

39:50 - When the administration decided that they were going to allow GLP ones

39:54 - to be able to be administered to clients,

39:57 - that was a massive financial impact and really wasn't just for people.

40:02 - Diabete or people who were pre-diabetic.

40:04 - It legitimately was being used as a weight loss drug in this extremely expensive

40:09 - product had a real impact on not only our health care system,

40:13 - but the people who were paying the bills and health care

40:15 - who saw that impact as well, too.

40:18 - There should be guidelines on that.

40:20 - You know, it should be for pre authorized ation and for certain kind of conditions.

40:25 - I'm a

40:26 - huge believer, and unfortunately we have a lot more people

40:29 - than, than people want to give credit to, on this is the fact that

40:33 - if you have someone that is non-disabled,

40:36 - right, who's able bodied, who's not caring for a dependent,

40:40 - who is disabled, who's not pregnant, who's not the whole litany,

40:44 - who are reporting $0 as income

40:47 - and are basically just using this as a health care plan.

40:51 - I have a problem with that.

40:52 - And I think the vast majority of taxpayers have a problem with that.

40:55 - So the concept of having people, engage in work search,

41:01 - if you're an abled body individual,

41:03 - or education or, or looking for, or job training,

41:08 - I think is a fair thing, to do,

41:12 - because quite frankly, a lot of people get up and go to work every day,

41:16 - some of them with a lot of chronic pain, to go to a employer,

41:20 - you know, who, provide some health care because they come and work for them.

41:24 - You know, I, it really bothers me that we still.

41:28 - And there was a point. Now

41:29 - I'm been asking for the updated numbers from the Department of Human Services.

41:33 - There was one point where we believe there was over a half million people

41:37 - that fit that category that I was talking about, you know, not

41:41 - an elderly not caring for a dependent, non-pregnant, totally able bodied,

41:45 - because the sustainability of the program for the people who are disabled,

41:50 - who are caring for an elderly,

41:53 - you know, it hurts them, right?

41:56 - And it creates waiting lines for them.

41:59 - And quite frankly, you know, if we can get guidelines

42:04 - out of DC that address that because I do not have a hope, given

42:07 - the current playing field that the voters gave us in

42:09 - Pennsylvania, that Pennsylvania would apply to be able to do that.

42:13 - Right.

42:13 - So the feds are telling us that we have to do that.

42:16 - I'm okay with that.

42:17 - Okay. And I think that could be a game changer.

42:20 - But at the end of the day, anything that can move

42:23 - this program to the point where protects its original true intent,

42:28 - that, to me, is what's best for those who truly need it.

42:31 - It's what's best for taxpayers.

42:34 - What I don't hope

42:35 - happens is that they don't make any programmatic changes,

42:39 - and they just push more costs down on to this or over the states.

42:43 - That, to me is going to be a punch in the gut

42:45 - to Pennsylvania taxpayers that especially as

42:48 - we have our own structural deficit, that we're trying to close.

42:52 - You get what I'm saying?

42:55 - I do, I do I think the flip side and and you're going to get my capital

43:00 - BlueCross hat on the flip side of this is and, you know, I, I do,

43:05 - I do lobby for a health insurance company is the affordability piece of this.

43:10 - I, I appreciate the reimbursement side to providers

43:14 - and and and and just the general costs

43:19 - to the Medicaid system.

43:21 - But health care costs overall

43:25 - are growing

43:26 - at a rate that really is not sustainable.

43:29 - I mean, it it in many ways could swamp us all

43:34 - because you're seeing that trying to balance budget.

43:36 - I think the question is, and I know these are difficult questions,

43:41 - because we've had these in private settings is

43:45 - what can we do

43:48 - as a as a state government

43:50 - to try to get our hands around?

43:55 - Medical inflation,

43:58 - in in a manner that doesn't

44:01 - disincentivize somebody from going to medical school or

44:05 - putting all of the pressure on a provider or a hospital or an insurance company.

44:11 - Because these costs

44:14 - are being borne by somebody, whether it's the taxpayer

44:18 - with higher taxes to pay for Medicaid or the rate payer

44:23 - who's paying, higher prices for the premium of my product.

44:26 - And and so the question for you is, what what can we do?

44:29 - Is there something we can do in that, in that area?

44:33 - Well, you know, in a couple of different ways.

44:35 - One is we need to listen to the industries that actively work in it,

44:39 - that if there's efficiencies that that are to be gained,

44:42 - we need to work with them to take advantage of that.

44:45 - You know, I, I will be the first Doug to tell you that,

44:48 - you know, the best elected officials in Harrisburg

44:51 - are the ones that act like they don't know everything about everything.

44:55 - But they do know that they bring the right people in the room

44:58 - and ask questions and try to come to you know, for me to come to you

45:03 - and say, Doug, I'm going to change this because I know what's best for you.

45:07 - You know, just like you wouldn't turn around and do the same thing

45:10 - to me and my background with Matt, you know, whatever it might be.

45:13 - And there's way too much of that in Harrisburg.

45:16 - Secondarily, and I'm trying to be, a better conveyor of information

45:21 - to people in my role now that there's a lot of wonderful ideas

45:24 - that people come up with that they want Medicaid to cover.

45:27 - Right? Or they want this.

45:29 - And I'm trying to get people to see what the impact is of that.

45:35 - Yes, it feels good. Right.

45:37 - But there may have been a reason why something was not put covered

45:41 - in a certain way because of what it could do over here.

45:45 - And I think there's not a lot enough of those kind of conversations in Harrisburg.

45:51 - Secondarily, and this is where I'm going to geek out

45:53 - a little bit, I'm a huge believer and total population health,

45:56 - I love seeing partnerships between different entities.

46:00 - You know, when I was a commissioner, we did a, it's now called

46:04 - care connections between the County of Lancaster

46:06 - and my behavioral health department at the time with, Penn Medicine,

46:10 - Lancaster General Health trying to work on stabilizing super utilizar.

46:15 - And it was important

46:16 - because these, like, 10% of individuals are responsible for like,

46:19 - an insane amount of the percentage of cost just in Lancaster County,

46:24 - that we spent, and we did work on doing that.

46:28 - I love seeing those kind of creative efforts to stabilize people,

46:32 - work together.

46:33 - The interesting part of that is, is how do you realize those efficiencies

46:37 - so you're able to invest it somewhere else, right.

46:40 - So it's a benefit for the whole plan.

46:42 - As you're aware, Pennsylvania also operates

46:46 - a bifurcated system with behavioral health and substance abuse.

46:50 - Over here, physical health over here.

46:52 - We have, physical health, macOS.

46:55 - We have behavioral health.

46:56 - MacOS, you know, like it?

46:59 - It's it can be maddening.

47:01 - And the reality is, is when we break down silos of care.

47:05 - It's funny.

47:06 - Government did this with, you know, myself, my former colleague

47:10 - Jim Lockman, who was my human service lead but really pushed Harrisburg

47:13 - to do the Human service block grant, right, gave unprecedented

47:17 - flexibility to counties in terms of delivering human services.

47:21 - And you could shift money if you needed more

47:23 - with drug and alcohol addiction or whatever it might be.

47:26 - We actually served the same amount of individuals with 10% less

47:31 - funding, just based on the efficiencies that we were given in the block grant.

47:36 - And of course, now every county wants to participate in that block grant.

47:39 - Why can't we allow more creativity or more participation

47:43 - and break down these silos between, you know, there's too many walls up.

47:47 - There's too many people who protect their own piece of the pie

47:49 - when reality is, is human beings are built like that.

47:53 - That person that is that's struggling with some severe depression

47:57 - and he has severe physical limitations.

48:00 - The fact that he's going

48:01 - winding through multiple bureaucracies is just maddening to me.

48:05 - And of course, as we all know this, the more bureaucracy

48:08 - that there are, more people involved, the more expensive everything is.

48:11 - And so no one can ever tell me that there's not a better way of doing things.

48:15 - And it's with a though it's a very tough it's a huge thing.

48:19 - Health care in Pennsylvania,

48:21 - on the physical health side and the behavioral health side,

48:24 - we got to find ways to bridge more of these gaps and do things better.

48:29 - It's better for the people we serve.

48:30 - It's better for the taxpayers, and it's better for the quality of care.

48:35 - I think, I think you're spot on.

48:37 - There are a lot of sacred cows out there, and and and and change.

48:40 - And you've said it earlier. Change is tough.

48:43 - Yeah.

48:43 - I will transition again to a couple other things.

48:47 - We have about ten minutes left and,

48:51 - I know another issue

48:53 - that is going to be hotly contested,

48:57 - this month is going to be mass transit.

49:00 - And I had, like I said, I had,

49:03 - Representative Jordan Harris, the House, Democrat appropriations

49:09 - chair on last week, we talked about, mass transit.

49:14 - And his idea was, you know, we're all in this together.

49:17 - And, you know, mass

49:19 - transit is important to the communities that it serves, etc., etc..

49:22 - I'm curious, what are your thoughts give you equal time.

49:26 - You both are going to be in that room, and this is going to be an issue

49:29 - over the next month.

49:30 - And the people of Pennsylvania, I think, deserve to hear

49:34 - yep, everybody's thoughts on the matter.

49:37 - Well, let's I'm going to be brutally honest with you on this,

49:40 - first and foremost.

49:41 - And I've said it to, business folks and community folks in the southeast,

49:45 - in a room last week.

49:46 - I've said it on the floor of the Senate this past week.

49:48 - If you happen to catch that,

49:50 - as much as I hear people talking about Septa publicly over the last few years,

49:54 - I will tell you, as someone who is at this budget table in negotiations,

49:58 - that's not been a priority for those folks.

50:01 - The Septa issue has not been,

50:05 - and, you know, I think they might have caught some flack for that.

50:08 - I think that's why you saw Governor Shapiro, end up flexing highway funds,

50:13 - and he basically took away from projects in other parts of the state

50:17 - the give towards Septa in, in just over last summer.

50:21 - I am not a transit hater.

50:24 - I'm not a Septa hater.

50:26 - Because I realize, you know what the city of Philadelphia

50:29 - and the surrounding regions would look like.

50:31 - Especially the Schuylkill and other arteries if they did not happen.

50:35 - Right.

50:35 - It's an economic development engine for them, I get that.

50:38 - I've also had a transit system, you know, here in Lancaster County.

50:42 - But I also know what it's like to hold

50:43 - the transit system accountable, be as efficient as possible.

50:46 - We did that back in my county days.

50:48 - We ended up merging the Red Cross Transit Authority with the Barta

50:52 - Berks County Area Regional Transit Authority to create the new South

50:55 - Central Transit Authority to help save millions of dollars a year.

50:58 - We hold our accountable to go through route efficiency evaluations

51:03 - and to remove things

51:04 - that are highly underutilized, so you can invest in things that are,

51:08 - we also cared about what executive pay was, and we weren't very happy.

51:14 - You know, it's tough for people to cry poor that they need untold

51:17 - hundreds of millions of dollars after we told them not to use federal money

51:21 - in their, operating budget during Covid, to see them offering a six

51:26 - figure salary increase is to people who are still on the payroll.

51:31 - Right.

51:32 - And nothing against lobbyists, but I doubt they need 21 of them, 21 of them.

51:37 - Right.

51:38 - I, have sat with the new gentleman of Septa.

51:41 - His name's Scott.

51:42 - I think he's a good guy.

51:44 - I think he knows stuff the inside and out.

51:46 - I think he's identified where some of those problems are.

51:49 - You got to be able to engage and show us the efficiencies.

51:52 - You know, you also had the overlying issue of

51:56 - why did we have to create a special prosecutor

51:59 - in order for that area to start handling crimes on Septa,

52:03 - whether against riders or whether against the the drivers and the operators?

52:09 - You know, we're the ones getting calls from families who are afraid

52:12 - to put their kids on it, to use to go to school, right, or to go to work.

52:16 - So what are you doing to address that?

52:19 - What are you doing to address the fare jumpers, which is a huge number.

52:22 - You'd be stunned at how much money they're losing from fare jumping.

52:26 - So we want to see these issues done.

52:29 - All right. I may sound like I'm being harsh.

52:31 - But this is no different than every other system has to be held accountable for.

52:36 - And the final pieces, I'll say is this.

52:38 - While all of us saw certainly what the impacts were of the price of,

52:41 - of a gallon of gasoline and the amount of taxes that come out of

52:45 - that over the last 11 years, if I were to tell you

52:49 - that they hadn't raised rates since 2014 at all,

52:53 - and even when they claim they raised rates,

52:55 - they just removed the special discount they were giving to certain folks.

52:59 - Like, to me, that's important when we're selling it statewide.

53:03 - So if the House Democrats or the governor bring this to the table

53:07 - is one of their priorities, we're certainly going to work with them on it.

53:11 - But you only can have so many priorities.

53:14 - And more importantly is, is you have to work with us on ours.

53:17 - And for me and my role as I started off this conversation with you,

53:21 - one of the most important things is, is you want to work on that

53:24 - because remember, they want another quarter billion dollars

53:28 - of Pennsylvania sales tax revenue away from us.

53:31 - And to them in a state that already is number

53:34 - four in the country, fourth highest state that invests in mass transit

53:39 - out of all of the country, and Septa gets $1.5 billion of that.

53:44 - So what are you going to do?

53:46 - What's your skin in the game to do things better?

53:49 - And what are you willing to work with

53:52 - to close the structural deficit in Harrisburg?

53:55 - So we, you know, don't face economic calamity next year,

53:59 - a year from now, those are what's going to be important here.

54:02 - And so that's as brutally honest as I can be about it.

54:06 - I'm will absolutely willing to work with them on that.

54:09 - A lot of good men and women who work in that system, hands down.

54:13 - But that doesn't mean you can be you can think these things.

54:16 - You can value it.

54:17 - You can still hold people accountable.

54:19 - And that's what we're about.

54:21 - And of course, in divided government will work with you.

54:24 - But you can't have, you know, ten different things that you want to do.

54:29 - And, that going to cost us that 7.5%

54:32 - increase that we referenced earlier when we already are spending,

54:36 - almost $5.5 billion more than we're taking in already.

54:40 - That's the stage at set for this year.

54:43 - How much they're willing to make tough decisions on other things will determine

54:48 - what happens with Septa and transit funding, and that is the honest truth.

54:54 - You got a challenging month ahead of you, I guess, right?

54:57 - Yeah.

54:57 - I you did mention priorities, and I know,

55:00 - and I'll ask this in in, in, in in two ways.

55:05 - One, what priorities do

55:09 - the Senate Republicans have that they want to see in this budget?

55:13 - One and

55:15 - if the viewers don't know, there's always

55:17 - ancillary issues that that aren't budget issues.

55:21 - But come along for the ride.

55:23 - I'm curious if you personally have any initiatives

55:28 - that you would like to see the legislature consider in this month

55:31 - your own priorities, individual secondary to the to the budget?

55:35 - Yeah, of course, if I were to put budget because of my role up here,

55:39 - I want to build on the successes of grow

55:41 - pa, and, and because I think the model of growth pa

55:45 - is the future for post-secondary education, not just higher education,

55:49 - because I think it could be to your schools accreditation or whatnot.

55:52 - I want to keep building on that. That success.

55:55 - Secondarily, for me, something that's really critically

56:00 - important is we still have a long ways to go on the education front.

56:04 - In terms of kids, you know, we've since you and I talked last,

56:07 - we've had another really bad proficiency report,

56:10 - where some of our kids that are in different places in terms

56:13 - of no one at any grade level,

56:15 - being proficient in some schools, in math or reading or science.

56:19 - But here's the other dirty little thing.

56:21 - And I wish we had a lot more time to talk about this.

56:24 - But as much as people want to throw around the word equity in education right now,

56:29 - we'll never have an equitable system until we can get a kid out who's trapped

56:33 - in a failing school or is in a school that may be dangerous for them.

56:37 - We'll never be equitable until that happens.

56:39 - And quite frankly, formulas matter.

56:44 - And right now you have schools that students are being educated at, close

56:48 - to $40,000 per student and others

56:52 - being educated at $15,000 per student.

56:56 - And if you were to overlap that with proficiency

56:59 - outcomes, you'd be stunned because you would believe.

57:02 - Why is it that the schools that we're spending less,

57:05 - you know, on the lower end of the money, getting better proficiency outcomes

57:08 - and the ones that we're spending more money?

57:10 - And then if you overlap that with the demographic decline

57:15 - that a lot of the schools that are getting the most money are the ones

57:17 - that have lost 20% of their enrollment in the last 3 or 4 years,

57:21 - or 15% of their enrollment, if you recall.

57:25 - And I'll close with this.

57:26 - Do you remember the budget was about a week late last year, right?

57:29 - And that budget was late over a funding formula

57:32 - because some schools wanted to use self-reported poverty data.

57:38 - Right. Something that we wouldn't be able to audit.

57:40 - And let me tell you, it had to have a multi-billion dollar impact

57:43 - across the state, away from some schools and towards a very few select others.

57:49 - And we were almost going to send everybody home.

57:51 - It got that intense because we wanted to use auditable data.

57:55 - At the end of the day, they folded, but they said,

57:58 - what are we going to do about these 11 schools

58:01 - if that doesn't tell you?

58:02 - The people who are publicly talking about equity, that they're really focused

58:06 - on certain things, there's a much fair way to do this.

58:08 - And maybe next time we're together, we can get into it a little more.

58:11 - Because I see you're up against the clock.

58:13 - But there's ways to devise it.

58:16 - I just don't think it's going to take putting together another

58:18 - legislative commission of people who want to protect their own self-interest,

58:22 - because I will tell everyone, that's not what's in the best interest of our kids.

58:26 - And what comes out of it usually is not anywhere near being equitable.

58:31 - Well, I tell you what, I,

58:33 - I can have you on tomorrow and we could do another hour just like that.

58:39 - Senator, I always love these

58:41 - exchanges because, like I said before, you don't shy away from it.

58:44 - You handle it straight on, and you give, give

58:47 - the viewer give us all, information we can use.

58:51 - Now, I always end these broadcast by giving the guest the final word.

58:55 - I'll give you the final word. What do you want?

58:57 - Our employees.

58:58 - And then obviously, when, PQM runs this over the next couple days,

59:02 - the viewers in Pennsylvania, what do you want them to take away

59:05 - from this exchange?

59:07 - Listen, I want to. If I could say this.

59:10 - Thank you for all that you do.

59:11 - I'm a huge believer in the potential of this state and what's out there.

59:15 - And if we had some policymakers and some policy decisions

59:19 - that really kind of unleashed its full potential.

59:22 - I think this state, could really turn around some of its decline that we had.

59:26 - And, you know, we we are working towards that.

59:29 - We're trying to make it competitive.

59:30 - We're trying to help our kids out and prepare them best for the future.

59:33 - And address some of the real inadequacies

59:36 - and the winners and losers kind of formulas that are out there.

59:40 - I think we can get there.

59:42 - And I appreciate you having me on today and be able to talk about a little bit

59:45 - about it.

59:45 - Doug knows my door is always open to talk with folks and, our hearts and trying

59:50 - to get the best Pennsylvania for for us and future generations that we can.

59:55 - What's the final word?

59:56 - Thank you for joining us today on the Public Affairs

59:59 - 899 Forum sponsored by capital BlueCross.

01:00 - 05.902 We want to thank Senator Scott Martin for joining us today.

01:00 - 08.738 Take care.

01:00 - 11.741 You know.

01:00 - 37.066 They.

01:00 - 39.802 The Capital Blue Cross

01:00 - 43.306 Forum is sponsored in part by Capital Blue Cross.