00:00 - This program has been paid for by the sponsor and does not reflect

00:03 - the views of PCN.

00:06 - Welcome to Inside Pennsylvania Burrows.

00:14 - Burrow.

00:14 - Governments across Pennsylvania are actively improving

00:17 - their communities through a wide range of initiatives.

00:21 - Local governments have been resilient throughout these economic times,

00:25 - and have gained high marks in numerous opinion polls for their ability

00:28 - to be responsive to the needs of residents.

00:32 - Joining today's discussion are Jeffrey Stonehill,

00:35 - Chambersburg borough manager in Franklin County.

00:38 - Wendy Nickerson, PSB outreach training consultant,

00:42 - and Eden Ratliff, partner at Stonehill and Ratliff.

00:46 - Now, here is your host and executive director

00:48 - of the Pennsylvania State Association of Boroughs, Chris Kapp.

00:53 - Good day everyone.

00:53 - Local governments continue to serve our residents at exceptional levels,

00:57 - and our boroughs across this great Commonwealth

00:59 - are committed to building stronger communities.

01:01 - Jeff, welcome back to the show.

01:03 - Tell us about how our borough is performing

01:05 - across the Commonwealth in this difficult economy.

01:07 - It is challenging, Chris, but I'm proud to report that most of our

01:10 - boroughs are strong, resilient and ready to rise the challenges

01:14 - of working with their citizens and businesses to be successful.

01:19 - Wayne Nickerson, welcome back.

01:20 - Thank you Chris. Same question.

01:22 - You know, in Pennsylvania, we have such a unique state.

01:26 - We almost have six different states in one

01:29 - depending on the area of Pennsylvania that you are located in.

01:32 - And so we all face different challenges, a lot of it based on the area

01:36 - that we're in and what is happening there as far as the economy.

01:41 - Also, tourism is different from one area to another,

01:44 - as well as the availability of good management folks, secretaries, managers

01:49 - and elected officials that all play a part in the success of our boroughs.

01:53 - And Eden, you've served in a number of regions across the Commonwealth.

01:57 - How are boroughs performing?

01:58 - Chris, great to see you. It's a great question.

02:00 - I think overall, the Commonwealth

02:01 - of Pennsylvania is truly fortunate to have so many strong municipalities,

02:05 - so many strong boroughs that are doing incredible work for their communities.

02:09 - The reason that I'm here

02:10 - is to talk about the communities who maybe get themselves into situations

02:13 - where they don't want to be that crisis moment, right

02:15 - where something terrible is happening with maybe one of their employees,

02:18 - something in their community, and they're thinking, I didn't sign up for this.

02:21 - What am I supposed to do?

02:22 - Stonehill Ratliff is available to come in, provide

02:25 - that strategy, that playbook that figures out, okay, what are we going to do next?

02:28 - How can we can continue to deliver the services that we need to

02:31 - and address this crisis moment that's happening?

02:33 - Hopefully, that never happens in any of our communities,

02:35 - but we know that it does. And that's what we're here for.

02:37 - Jeff, what are some of the key,

02:39 - cost drivers that municipalities are dealing with across the Commonwealth?

02:43 - One of the challenges that all of our municipalities,

02:45 - including our boroughs, find ourselves in, Chris, is that

02:49 - they have limited availability of revenue.

02:52 - Unfortunately, the menu of revenue items that we can use

02:56 - to raise the funds necessary to deliver those critical services is challenging.

03:02 - And so we are all trying to figure out financially how to support

03:06 - the needs of our community fire, police, emergency services,

03:11 - economic development, roads, streets and parks

03:14 - with limited resources and that is really the crux

03:18 - of the challenge that all of our municipalities are facing.

03:22 - And when do you train so many municipalities across the Commonwealth?

03:25 - What do you see as some of the major cost drivers?

03:28 - It's interesting.

03:29 - Again, I'll go back to the idea of the place that you are in Pennsylvania,

03:33 - up in the northwest.

03:35 - We have a lot of snow, and this was a very difficult winter.

03:38 - So we're facing a lot of shortages for funds, for things like plowing,

03:43 - for maintenance of that equipment, for salt and anti-skid.

03:47 - So it can be a challenge in the northwest for those kinds of issues.

03:53 - One of the things that's so impressive about these boroughs, their abilities

03:56 - of these borough council and staff to prioritize what they need to get done.

04:00 - They know that their communities can only be taxed so much.

04:02 - They know that there's only so much availability of revenue.

04:05 - So they're looking at the

04:06 - slate of services that they're providing and how they're providing and figuring out

04:09 - what are the priorities right.

04:11 - If you have to discontinue something

04:13 - in the future, if you need to alter that or scale back.

04:15 - Where are you going to make this decision

04:17 - so that services are still being delivered at an exceptional level

04:20 - without creating an undue burden that can't be sustained

04:22 - within the municipality?

04:23 - And I think that's incredibly impressive.

04:25 - What are some of the key considerations involved in the budgeting process?

04:28 - There's so much discussion up on the federal level.

04:30 - The locals, of course,

04:32 - they have to contend with some of the same, same issues.

04:35 - But what are some of the key considerations,

04:37 - when you start to put together a budget?

04:39 - Well, I think that's interesting,

04:41 - Chris, that, many of our citizens in our boroughs

04:44 - don't know that our borough budget every single year has to be balanced.

04:48 - It's not an option.

04:49 - It's not like the federal government.

04:51 - If we don't have that money, we can't spend it.

04:54 - And so one of the things that we try to do in budgeting is, as Eden said,

04:58 - is to prioritize those services which are the most important.

05:02 - And part of that is a process.

05:04 - Smart boroughs and municipalities meet with their staff, meet

05:08 - with their community, have public meetings, have a discourse

05:12 - and a transparency that allows them to decide with limited resources,

05:17 - what are the things that the community really needs?

05:19 - And that's citizen engagement.

05:22 - And local government is so important.

05:24 - And a lot of our burdens, they really should be commended

05:27 - for the fact that they involve the citizens in the budgeting process.

05:31 - And when these same question,

05:32 - as they say, boroughs are closest to the people. Yes.

05:35 - And it is interesting that our officials both are elected officials

05:39 - and are appointed officials, are taking a look at those numbers in the budget.

05:44 - There's no silver bullet for bringing in more money

05:48 - or for saving money on the expense side.

05:51 - So you bring in a little bit more here in revenues, save a little bit.

05:56 - You don't have one big item that's going to bring in extra money to help you.

06:01 - Generally, unless we have the Arpa funds, which was an unexpected plus,

06:06 - but usually from year to year, it takes time to sit down

06:09 - and do those calculations and considerations.

06:12 - Wendy and Jeffrey are exactly right.

06:14 - There's no silver bullet.

06:15 - We're looking at Washington.

06:16 - Go through a process now of evaluating the services that the federal government

06:20 - is providing to this country and figuring out, well, what cuts do we need to make?

06:24 - Is this is this government right size?

06:26 - What changes need to happen?

06:28 - Well, the experts of that are in our bureaus

06:30 - across Pennsylvania, all across the Commonwealth.

06:32 - They do this every single year.

06:34 - These bureau budgets,

06:35 - no matter where you are in the Commonwealth,

06:36 - are a statement of the priorities of that municipality,

06:39 - of what those citizens expect.

06:41 - And they they develop their budget. It's a public process.

06:43 - It gets adopted, it's balanced every single year.

06:46 - And then they go forth throughout the year and they execute accordingly.

06:48 - It's an impressive process, many would say, of this notion that,

06:52 - boroughs and local governments for that matter, are laboratories for democracy.

06:56 - How important is it for our local governments

06:59 - and the citizens, the residents, for them to interact with local officials

07:03 - and engage in the process?

07:05 - Absolutely. It's invaluable.

07:06 - And I always tell this, to all of our, local government leaders

07:12 - who I talked to be transparent, be engaging in your community,

07:16 - invite interaction with the citizens and the businesses in your community,

07:21 - and open up all of your processes, whether it's adopting new ordinances

07:25 - or the budget or any decision that borough council needs to make.

07:29 - Involve the citizens in every level of discussion.

07:32 - You all have nothing but success if you involve the people in the decision

07:37 - making process, and we encourage all of our leaders across the state

07:42 - to do that kind of community engagement, citizen outreach.

07:46 - That's why the technology is important.

07:48 - You know, we talk a lot

07:49 - at the Boroughs Association about social media and email and websites.

07:54 - Well, those are not gimmicks.

07:55 - Those are ways to attract people into our local government

07:59 - so they can be engaged and involved in the decision making process.

08:04 - Wendy, you're absolutely right.

08:06 - Our young people today don't pick up a printed newspaper and read it.

08:10 - So if they want to learn what's going on in the municipality,

08:14 - they're looking to social media,

08:15 - to a website, to a Facebook page to see what's going on.

08:19 - A lot of times, if you're looking for volunteers,

08:22 - maybe to serve on a committee or commission or as a volunteer

08:25 - fire department member, put that notice out there in social media

08:30 - or on your website, and I think that you get a bigger response

08:34 - for the young folks to take part to come and join in.

08:38 - About ten years ago, I was the borough manager of Ford City,

08:40 - Pennsylvania, just outside of Pittsburgh, and I remember attending a town

08:44 - hall meeting where the borough council was weighing options of

08:47 - do they go through a forced process by the Department of Environmental Protection

08:50 - to sell their water treatment plant to a private water company,

08:53 - which would, of course, increase rates and have lots of other complications

08:56 - for this municipality?

08:57 - Or do they stay go through the DEP consent order process,

09:01 - to redesign a 100 year old water plant to rebuild that

09:04 - and get that up to speed, and deal with the issues at that plant had.

09:08 - Well, that community Ford City were came out in droves to that community

09:12 - meeting to that town hall and said, we do not want our rates to increase.

09:15 - We do not want to go to private equity.

09:16 - We want to keep this water treatment plant.

09:18 - Will partner with DEP, will do all the things necessary to build it.

09:21 - Several years later,

09:22 - we had raked in millions of dollars in grant bonds throughout the Commonwealth,

09:25 - much with the assistance of the boroughs Association. By the way.

09:28 - We've rebuilt a new water plant.

09:29 - We, voted against private equity.

09:31 - And it's still to this day, you know, serving water, that community.

09:34 - And that is a public process

09:36 - where the community is a part of the decision making process.

09:38 - That's democracy in action.

09:40 - What are some of the key federal and state programs that local governments rely on?

09:44 - I mean, Wendy started down the path talking about Arpa as all federal funds

09:48 - start to dry up, a new set of considerations for local governments.

09:51 - But what do they really need for for long term planning

09:54 - and for further discretionary spending as they address

09:57 - some of their infrastructure needs locally?

09:58 - I think that's very important, Chris, that we have a very strong relationship

10:02 - with our state and federal officials, and they support the things

10:06 - that we're trying to do in boroughs across the Commonwealth.

10:09 - But funding, you know, it's the grants that once existed.

10:13 - Some of them are fewer and far between.

10:15 - There are still things out there, federal agencies like FEMA, and,

10:21 - transportation money, which flows through PennDOT and DEP for environmental money.

10:27 - But it's not like it used to be, because everybody's

10:30 - had to tighten their belts in recent years.

10:33 - And I think that our federal partners are very cognizant of the fact

10:37 - that local government needs federal support for a large projects

10:40 - like, even mentioned building a new water treatment plant.

10:44 - That's something that's hard

10:45 - for any local municipality to do without some kind of assistance.

10:49 - But it's not like it used to be when the economy was better

10:53 - and there was more money flowing back and forth,

10:55 - which is why it makes these decision making processes

10:59 - so difficult for a local government to decide what is truly the priority

11:04 - and make sure that they're spending whatever resources they have wisely.

11:07 - Do you remember the days of walk away Money where it just seemed like

11:10 - any sort of legislator in the state or the federal government

11:13 - was able to just kind of tuck away funding within the,

11:15 - you know, within the state or federal budget.

11:17 - And that could go into the municipalities.

11:18 - There's obviously lots of challenges with that.

11:20 - You know, some of us might miss the good old days,

11:22 - but the point was that the elected officials in these

11:25 - boroughs across the Commonwealth, they know what their communities need,

11:28 - and they can convey that.

11:29 - And I say this to our state and federal elected officials all the time.

11:32 - The local officials know exactly what's happening in their community.

11:35 - They know what problems need to be addressed,

11:37 - and they know how the community wants to see them addressed.

11:39 - Being able to get resources from the state and federal government to be able to do

11:42 - that is where I think our state and federal elected officials

11:46 - can do the best kind of work to be able to develop that partnership.

11:49 - Like Jeffrey said, to say, what are the needs?

11:50 - How can we get you the resources that you need

11:52 - so that you can go forth and execute our borough council's?

11:55 - They know what needs to get done.

11:56 - Wendy, I think it's a wonderful idea.

11:59 - If you have a county borough association who meets three four times a year

12:04 - to always make sure, invite the representatives,

12:08 - the senators, the Congress folks, have them come to the meeting.

12:11 - Also, invite county representatives, invite the commissioners,

12:16 - invite planning commission members, the planning department.

12:20 - Have them come so they can see and talk to folks.

12:23 - What's happening in your area, the money that you might need.

12:26 - And they have some ins where you might be able to get some funding as well.

12:30 - But when you meet folks at a place like a county borough

12:33 - association meeting where you're relaxed, you're having dinner,

12:37 - it's a whole lot easier to make that contact

12:40 - so you know each other when you see each other.

12:43 - Instead of getting the phone call that says, why

12:46 - I'm a council member and I need a little help, can you help me?

12:49 - If you know each other socially, it really makes a big difference.

12:53 - There's so much discussion about the labor market.

12:55 - How are local governments

12:56 - performing in attracting and retaining talent, in this economy?

13:01 - That's a great question, Chris.

13:02 - You know, it is part of the cost drivers that we talked about in local government,

13:06 - because obviously

13:07 - we have to have the wages and the benefits to compete with the private sector.

13:12 - So that we make sure we get talented young people

13:14 - to join our staff in each one of the boroughs across Pennsylvania.

13:18 - There, we need those talented people, whether they're on street crew

13:22 - or whether they're working at the water treatment plant

13:25 - or whether they're in management.

13:27 - We need people who understand that local government is a calling,

13:31 - but also we need to be able to pay them the wages

13:34 - and the benefits that they serve, at least at a market rate.

13:37 - And that's part

13:38 - of the challenge of local government because the resources are slim,

13:42 - but the needs are great and staff and proper

13:46 - staffing is extremely important across Pennsylvania.

13:49 - I know a lot of our borough struggle to recruit and retain talented people

13:54 - to work in. Local government is a great profession.

13:57 - Obviously, I've committed my life to the profession of local government.

14:00 - I love it, but obviously I realize that's not for everybody,

14:05 - but there are lots of young people out there who've never even considered

14:08 - a career in local government.

14:10 - And part of what we do at the Boroughs Association, right,

14:13 - is we reach out to students and to young people,

14:15 - and we try to get them to understand

14:17 - that this is a calling which they might be interested in as well.

14:21 - And, Chris, to that end, that's exactly why Jeffrey and I have launched this firm,

14:24 - Stonehill Ratliff, to help these municipalities who,

14:27 - when they call us, they're in some sort of trouble.

14:30 - There's some sort of crisis that happens, and they say,

14:32 - I'm not exactly sure where to turn.

14:34 - I'm not sure what the next steps are, and we'll ask questions.

14:36 - Well, what about your staffing? Who do you have?

14:38 - You know, internally they can help you.

14:40 - And oftentimes there's nobody right?

14:42 - I mean, they don't have that person they can turn to.

14:44 - You'd be able to say, okay, this is my crisis moment.

14:46 - Here's the strategy of how we're going to fix this.

14:48 - Here's the next steps. Here's how we're going to execute that.

14:50 - And that's where we come in to be able to come in and say,

14:52 - okay, let's work with the resources you have.

14:53 - Let's figure out kind of what the next steps

14:55 - are dealing with whatever the crisis might be.

14:57 - And going from there, you know,

14:58 - without the kind of professional staff with that breadth of experience,

15:01 - it becomes really difficult, which is where we step in.

15:05 - A lot of our small boroughs

15:07 - don't have the resources to hire professionals to come in.

15:11 - So a lot of those managerial duties fall on the elected officials,

15:16 - and it's important for them to get training,

15:19 - to stay up to date on legislation, to learn about budgeting.

15:23 - They can come to us at SAB for a lot of those

15:26 - classes and webinars that information to help them.

15:29 - And they also need to consider retaining and recruiting

15:34 - good elected officials as well as appointed officials.

15:38 - And there's so much discussion about public safety and police

15:41 - departments, as far as retaining officers and attracting new talent,

15:45 - that's a key challenge.

15:46 - What are some of the key considerations that local governments are confronting

15:49 - right now when they try to replenish some of their police forces?

15:53 - It is very difficult these days to find people

15:55 - to go into the profession of police or fire, EMS.

15:58 - Those are challenging professions to try to recruit people into.

16:02 - A lot of our boroughs follow civil service rules, which are of state roles

16:06 - about the hiring, promotion of uniformed employees.

16:11 - You have to be of a certain size.

16:12 - A small community would have to deal with that.

16:15 - But our larger borough certainly all have the challenges of civil service roles,

16:19 - which is meant to try to lend consistency to multiple in a spouse

16:24 - and the way that they recruit and retain uniformed employees.

16:28 - But it's very challenging.

16:29 - You have to do a test, you have to pass a test.

16:32 - You have to hire all of the tested list.

16:34 - That makes it much more difficult to find the people

16:38 - who want to be police officers and firefighters.

16:41 - So one of the things that we've talked about in state government

16:45 - or ways to maybe improve that system so that civil service reform,

16:49 - would allow some additional flexibility to local municipalities

16:53 - and the recruitment of police officers and firefighters.

16:56 - Such a difficult, profession to find people these days

17:00 - to want to go into and expensive for a lot of our municipalities.

17:03 - That's why the other thing, and I think that, EDA

17:06 - is very familiar with this, is regional police departments.

17:09 - Nowadays, a lot of our boroughs and other municipalities

17:13 - are grouping together and trying to do regional police departments

17:16 - so that it's the full burden doesn't fall just on one municipality.

17:21 - I agree with Jeffrey.

17:22 - I think that it's very important that we work together,

17:26 - whether it's 2 or 3 boroughs or a township, a city next to one another,

17:31 - working together, pooling those resources because it is difficult

17:34 - to come up with the funding sometimes to have your own department.

17:38 - You can also consider talking with a neighbor

17:41 - who might have their own department saying, well, gee, we really don't

17:44 - have the money to join in with you, but can we for a fee,

17:49 - have an officer come and periodically drive through our municipality?

17:53 - Sometimes that presence can make a big difference.

17:56 - Yeah, they're absolutely right.

17:58 - I think the elephant in the room when it comes to police departments

18:00 - of a certain size is collective bargaining, right?

18:02 - I mean, there's a mandatory unionization process

18:04 - which, you know, comes with things like binding arbitration.

18:07 - You get these contracts that are for renewals.

18:09 - It's a skill and a difficult one to negotiate

18:12 - these collective bargaining agreements in a way

18:13 - that allows for sustainability in the course of the contract,

18:16 - and providing services to the municipality.

18:19 - I've seen contracts that have gotten way out of whack,

18:21 - where it becomes really challenging where a borough

18:24 - is looking at this police contracts we dealt with this in Ford City.

18:26 - You know, it was a consideration in Greencastle at one point

18:28 - when I was manager

18:29 - there, of saying, is this something that can be sustained over the long term

18:33 - and you need to understand kind of where you're off

18:35 - ramps are and being able to deal with that.

18:37 - So you can so have sustainable policing,

18:39 - provide services to your community but not be racing towards a fiscal cliff.

18:42 - How important is it?

18:43 - And you started down the path of regional police departments,

18:46 - which is an example of achieving economies of scale.

18:49 - How important is, you know, functional consolidation of services,

18:54 - you know,

18:54 - to where you can achieve those economies of scale

18:57 - and overall inter-governmental cooperation?

18:59 - I think it's it's wonderfully important.

19:01 - And in in Chambersburg Borough, I'm the manager and also at,

19:05 - Stonehill Ratliff where Ethan and I work together,

19:08 - we are always encouraging municipalities to explore, out-of-the-box

19:12 - thinking when it comes to ways to solve their problems.

19:15 - So they avoid things like fiscal cliff and regional cooperation.

19:19 - Fee for services.

19:20 - As was mentioned earlier, consolidation of services from multi municipal ways

19:26 - of providing those things are all tricks of the trade to try to lower the cost

19:32 - for individual taxpayers and repairs and still provide quality services.

19:36 - I know the SAB has always encouraged cooperation amongst its members,

19:41 - and even with townships and cities outside of the boroughs,

19:44 - because I think cooperation in today's age

19:47 - is really the way to solve some of these lingering problems.

19:52 - And we encourage that at Stonehill Ratliff as well.

19:55 - It is important and not just for our police services,

19:58 - but for almost every service that you can imagine in your municipality.

20:03 - It doesn't make sense for 2 or 3 neighbors to each have their own,

20:09 - trash collection trucks and services.

20:12 - They should maybe think about working together, saving some money.

20:16 - The same with collecting leaves in the fall.

20:18 - I know it's very seasonable, but if you can work together

20:22 - and have one vehicle that you're all taking part in, making sure

20:26 - that it's running, keeping it maintained, as well as performing the service

20:30 - and having the employees necessary, it really does make a difference.

20:34 - Yeah, and I think the examples just continue, right?

20:36 - I mean, you know, paving mill and overlay

20:38 - snow plowing, you know, debris removal if you think about it.

20:42 - In a disaster, if they were to be some sort of a natural disaster,

20:45 - all these municipalities and public works department

20:48 - would immediately start figuring out how can we sort this out together.

20:50 - It's the same concept in every day, you know, kind of management

20:53 - of these municipalities.

20:54 - How can we work together to keep our collective costs low?

20:57 - And, you know, partner, as we move forward,

20:59 - what motivated you to get into local government service?

21:02 - I mean, obviously, this is a, odd numbered year,

21:05 - which means there are municipal elections across the Commonwealth.

21:07 - And, what motivated you, to take that leap?

21:10 - Well, as a young man, I grew up in New York City.

21:13 - Please don't hold that against me.

21:14 - But I grew to love the city and the idea of an urban environment.

21:20 - I studied in college, urbanization.

21:23 - And I came to Pennsylvania as an adult and fell in love with the juxtaposition

21:29 - of our small borough downtowns and their urban cores

21:33 - and the beautiful

21:33 - landscape of Pennsylvania that surrounds all of our cities and towns and,

21:37 - and boroughs.

21:38 - So Pennsylvania really took my breath away.

21:41 - And I've stayed here for the majority of my life,

21:44 - because I love the fact that I can serve in a borough, the center of a region,

21:49 - and the nice core with a downtown and people

21:53 - that know each other and live in that, that sort of small town feel.

21:57 - And that's really describes not only where I'm from in Chambersburg,

22:01 - but many of the small boroughs all over Pennsylvania,

22:06 - which still to this day have those small, beautiful downtowns and that small town

22:12 - feel a great place to start a business or to raise your family.

22:15 - And I wanted to be involved in the community my whole life.

22:19 - So I, I left the big city and came out to the beautiful Pennsylvania.

22:23 - And I'll never look back.

22:24 - I was again, we're glad to have you. Jeff Bezos, to be here.

22:26 - I love that.

22:27 - So, Wendy, same question as a teacher, when I married my husband,

22:33 - who has been our council president for 45 years,

22:36 - I started to realize that there was a great need

22:39 - to educate our elected officials and our appointed officials,

22:44 - and also to help them realize that they need to keep updated,

22:48 - because every single year there's legislation that passes

22:51 - that they need to be aware of in order to stay updated.

22:55 - And do what they need to do in order to manage their municipality.

22:58 - So it's really one of those different fields to be,

23:02 - and you don't learn municipal government anywhere else.

23:05 - Aiden, I remember being a young man, working towards my Eagle Scout.

23:10 - And I, as part of that process for all the Boy Scouts out

23:13 - there, will know you have to are engaging in government meetings.

23:16 - So I remember going to school board meetings,

23:18 - talking to my teachers, going to the borough council meeting

23:21 - in the borough of Westchester, where I'm from, and seeing government in action

23:25 - and understanding that these folks had dedicated their lives to helping others,

23:29 - because at the end of the day, local government is a people business, right?

23:32 - I mean, we may think about it in terms of the services that we provide

23:35 - and the challenges we deal with all, which is true,

23:37 - but we are doing this to help other people, and I absolutely love that.

23:41 - So I went to college and I went to grad school.

23:42 - I studied that,

23:43 - I spent 11 years working in Pennsylvania, where I'm from, both on the eastern part

23:47 - of the state, western part of the state, south central part of the state.

23:50 - This is an amazing place, and there are amazing people

23:52 - in this commonwealth who are doing incredible things,

23:54 - and I believe that they are entitled to a government that serves them well,

23:58 - that stays out of the way, allows them to live their lives

24:00 - to do all the things that they want to do, whether as Jeffrey's at it, start

24:03 - a business, raise a family, you know, whatever adventures that they want

24:07 - to get to into their life, they should be in a community that is serving them

24:10 - well so that they can do that, you know, in a prosperous way.

24:13 - And I just enjoy being a part of that.

24:15 - And I've dedicated my life to it.

24:16 - And how how do boroughs come up with a vision for their community,

24:20 - and how do they get the public, to buy into that mission

24:23 - and how do they achieve that?

24:24 - And how do you envision your local governments

24:26 - over the next ten years continuing to prosper?

24:28 - I think that's great, Chris.

24:30 - We really need to have strategic planning

24:32 - in our local government, whether we're big or small,

24:34 - whether we can do it internally with our staff or with outside assistance.

24:38 - We need to engage the public and the businesses in our community,

24:41 - develop a vision, a direction there needs to be planning.

24:45 - We can't just wing it as we are, too important to our communities.

24:49 - And I think that BR councils that try to sit down and do a strategic plan

24:54 - for where the next five, ten, 20 years in their borough are going

24:57 - to be much more prepared to address the challenges that might come up.

25:01 - So I really am a big fan of the strategic planning process.

25:06 - And when do you have a statewide perspective?

25:08 - You meet with so many misspell cities across the Commonwealth?

25:10 - Same question.

25:12 - I think it's interesting when you take a look at each

25:15 - of the boroughs across Pennsylvania, they all have something special.

25:20 - It could be a natural resource that's right in their backyard.

25:24 - It might be something special about them.

25:26 - Historically, it might be a district in their municipality that they can showcase,

25:32 - but everyone has something big and small, and I think it's important

25:36 - to get the citizens involved with the elected officials

25:39 - to sit down and start thinking, what is it that makes us unique,

25:43 - and how can we market our municipality to others?

25:48 - One of the things I've heard from smaller boroughs across the Commonwealth

25:50 - is there's a do we really need a strategic plan?

25:53 - We know what we want to do.

25:54 - We know the things that need to happen in our community.

25:56 - Do we really need a comprehensive plan?

25:57 - And the answer is absolutely you do, because that ultimately serves as a guide.

26:02 - But it's like a playbook, you know, what are we going to do this year

26:04 - as we get into developing the budget, we start figuring out

26:07 - what are our priorities for the next year, what are the things that we need

26:10 - to accomplish

26:11 - that comprehensive plan of which the strategic plan

26:13 - is to flow right into to be able to say, okay, well,

26:15 - these are the areas that we're focusing on.

26:17 - It could be infrastructure, it could be economic development,

26:20 - you know, maintaining the downtown.

26:21 - Any of those things are areas of focus that should be called out

26:24 - in a community driven process where the community has input on there.

26:28 - They're informing the elected officials.

26:29 - There's that dialog back and forth when you go to manage your budget process.

26:33 - Once you've figured out all the operational needs

26:34 - that are a given, you start figuring out

26:36 - with that extra pool of funds that you have.

26:38 - This is where we're going to focus that so that we can be real strategic,

26:41 - and intentional about wherever dedicating the resources

26:43 - so that we can create enhancement opportunities within the community.

26:47 - Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for this very important subject.

26:49 - Thanks so much for joining us, Jeff Stonehill.

26:51 - How we can get more information on Chambersburg Borough and Franklin County.

26:54 - Sure. I'll give you the website.

26:55 - It's WW, YWCA Chambersburg, PA

27:00 - one word lowercase.gov and Wendy Nickerson.

27:03 - And of course with PSB we are at

27:06 - Dot Burrows all spelled out with an SBO roe

27:11 - dawg and Aiden of the firm of Stonehill Ratliff.

27:15 - Chris, thank you so much. It's

27:18 - Stonehill ratliff.com.

27:20 - I like to thank our guests for the views on borough government.

27:23 - Thanks so much for tuning in. Have a great day.