00:08 - This week on PA Books

00:11 - Deborah deBilly dit

00:13 - Courville author of The

00:16 - Laporte Inheritance.

00:18 - Deborah deBilly

00:19 - dit Courville you

00:21 - are the author of a book called

00:23 - The Laporte Inheritance an

00:24 - historical novel

00:25 - of French Azilum.

00:27 - What is French Azilum?

00:28 - French Azilum is now a

00:31 - historic site but 200

00:33 - some odd years ago about

00:35 - 1793 or 4 it was begun

00:38 - as a little village

00:39 - settlement for French

00:42 - nobility who were fleeing

00:44 - the French Revolution.

00:47 - And it's a long kind

00:48 - of a long story

00:49 - but we have a

00:49 - little bit of time.

00:50 - There were a bunch of

00:52 - investors in Philadelphia who

00:55 - had recently lost some

00:56 - money in Europe because

00:58 - Europe had sort of an economic

01:01 - downturn in the 1750s

01:02 - and they were looking to

01:04 - recoup their investments.

01:06 - So they looked at the

01:08 - north branch of the

01:09 - Susquehanna River and

01:11 - saw that there was a

01:12 - trading post in

01:13 - Wilkes-Barre and trading

01:15 - posts up north in Tioga

01:16 - Point near Sayre

01:17 - But there was

01:18 - nothing in between.

01:19 - And they said hey wouldn't

01:21 - it be dandy to have a little

01:22 - settlement there and a trading

01:24 - post and you get some people.

01:26 - So that was as far as that went.

01:27 - And then all the

01:28 - French people who

01:30 - were settling in Philadelphia

01:32 - many of them were

01:33 - refugees at that

01:34 - time from the French Revolution

01:37 - came on board and said how about

01:39 - if we create an asylum meaning

01:41 - refuge "Azilum" for the people

01:43 - who are fleeing the guillotine?

01:46 - And the idea took off and

01:47 - the land was acquired.

01:49 - They started with a few

01:51 - hundred acres but it

01:52 - expanded as they call

01:53 - themselves The Azilum

01:55 - Company the investors and

01:57 - expanded to literally

01:58 - two million acres

01:59 - over Bradford County,

02:01 - Sullivan County and now

02:03 - we have 23 acres left

02:05 - but so that's it started

02:07 - as a grand plan to

02:09 - be self-sufficient trade

02:11 - post and village and

02:13 - a place where those

02:14 - fleeing friends could go.

02:16 - Whose idea was it

02:17 - in the first place?

02:18 - The group of investors,

02:20 - Stephen Gerard was one.

02:21 - Yeah Theophilus Cazenove

02:23 - was another one.

02:24 - I just like his name.

02:26 - And there were several

02:28 - others Hollenbeck.

02:30 - John Keating depending on who

02:32 - you read they all think that

02:34 - whoever they're writing about

02:36 - was the main guy but it was a

02:38 - consortium it was a group of

02:40 - people maybe 10 or 11 and they

02:42 - happened to meet up

02:43 - with Bartholomew

02:44 - Laporte and Omer Talon.

02:46 - Omer Talon had been King Louis

02:49 - the 16th's Avocat General

02:52 - So his like his attorney

02:54 - general but clearly when

02:55 - Louis the Sixteenth things

02:57 - went not so good for him.

02:59 - Omer had to flee and he

03:00 - ended up in Philadelphia.

03:02 - And thereby hangs a tale.

03:03 - But I'll get back to that.

03:05 - So they were the ones I

03:06 - think in all the research

03:08 - that I did for the book I

03:10 - think they're the ones who

03:11 - kind of said yeah we'll

03:13 - make this happen we'll join

03:15 - in with you and we'll

03:16 - make this Azilum happen.

03:17 - So the scouts were sent up to

03:19 - check out this land scouts who

03:21 - had been quite familiar with

03:23 - that area because they'd done

03:25 - surveying and so forth before

03:26 - and Omer Talon and Bartholomew

03:28 - Laporte went up and said yes

03:30 - this is wonderful it's great

03:31 - And the land was purchased.

03:33 - In some cases they

03:34 - purchased it two times

03:36 - over because that was

03:38 - during the conflict

03:39 - with some deeds

03:40 - having been issued by

03:42 - George the Third and

03:44 - some by William Penn.

03:45 - And everybody you know.

03:47 - Oh that's my land

03:48 - No it's not.

03:48 - That's my land but I

03:49 - have deed but so do I.

03:50 - So they just purchased it twice.

03:52 - And the way the Azilum

03:54 - Company was set up to

03:55 - work if you wanted to

03:56 - settle there you bought

03:58 - into it you bought a

03:59 - share in the company

04:00 - and for your share which

04:02 - you could take up

04:03 - until three years to begin

04:04 - paying back because

04:05 - the theory was by then

04:07 - you'd be making money

04:08 - and so would the

04:09 - settlement and then you'd

04:11 - have money to begin to

04:12 - work off your debt.

04:13 - You would receive a half

04:15 - acre of land and house which

04:17 - was two up two down two

04:18 - bedchambers two reception rooms

04:20 - a cookhouse covered walkway

04:22 - a dining room and under the

04:24 - dining room was the wine

04:26 - cellar for your investment.

04:28 - And of course then

04:29 - you could hire

04:30 - people to farm for you raise

04:32 - livestock for you etc. etc.

04:34 - engage in whatever most of the

04:36 - people who settled there weren't

04:38 - tradespeople some learned to be

04:40 - tradespeople and other people

04:42 - just hired people to do things.

04:44 - They were the Aristocracy?

04:45 - They were the nobility

04:47 - because that was

04:48 - who were facing the

04:49 - guillotine in France.

04:51 - How did they find out about

04:52 - this place in the first place?

04:53 - I don't really know.

04:54 - I would imagine word of mouth.

04:56 - Philadelphia

04:57 - because it was the

04:58 - capital of the United

05:00 - States at that time

05:01 - in 1793, there was a

05:02 - large French population

05:04 - there as well.

05:05 - I think when the French came

05:06 - over they just landed there

05:08 - because it was the capital

05:09 - and some also up in Boston.

05:10 - But but the majority

05:12 - of them were and

05:13 - there was a thriving

05:15 - French society if

05:16 - you will and Society

05:18 - Hill is where

05:19 - that started if you

05:20 - know Philadelphia.

05:22 - So I think word of mouth

05:23 - once people as people

05:25 - landed they knew people or

05:26 - they knew people who knew

05:28 - people who knew people

05:29 - who were there and they

05:31 - heard about it and

05:32 - they decided to go.

05:33 - In the book

05:34 - I have Bartholomew LaPorte

05:35 - coming up with the

05:36 - clever idea again who

05:38 - knows if he did or not.

05:39 - But my Bartholomew

05:40 - LaPorte did of

05:41 - going to meet the

05:43 - ships and if there

05:44 - were French nobility

05:45 - coming off he

05:46 - would say welcome

05:48 - you know come here.

05:49 - He knew by that time he knew

05:50 - everybody in Philadelphia

05:52 - and he could say hey let me

05:53 - tell you about this place.

05:54 - You know French Azlilum.

05:55 - Now I want to tell you the

05:57 - story about Omer Talon.

05:59 - He was as I said the

06:00 - attorney general for Louis

06:02 - the Sixteenth and he

06:03 - needed to flee France.

06:05 - Or he chose to he didn't

06:06 - want to lose his head.

06:07 - So he went to Marseille. I'm

06:08 - sure he knew that that was

06:09 - part of France even though it

06:10 - was in the south of France.

06:11 - But it was a huge shipping port

06:12 - and he thought I've got to be

06:14 - able to get a ship there but he

06:16 - was being followed

06:16 - by the police.

06:17 - They were checking

06:19 - passenger manifests.

06:20 - There was it was

06:21 - very hard for him

06:22 - to find a ship and

06:24 - he met up with

06:25 - Bartholomew Laporte

06:26 - and the story goes

06:28 - that Bartholomew

06:29 - clever man who was

06:30 - a wine merchant

06:31 - said to Omer Talon,

06:33 - "Well I know how

06:34 - I'll get you out

06:35 - of France," and Omer

06:36 - Talon was like,

06:38 - "How are you going to do that?"

06:40 - And he put him in a wine

06:41 - barrel and rolled him on board

06:43 - with the rest of the wine

06:45 - shipment that he was shipping

06:47 - out of Marseille at the time

06:48 - they got to England the ship

06:50 - bound for England and England

06:52 - was neutral at that time.

06:54 - So he was safe and

06:55 - he got out and then

06:56 - they had obviously

06:57 - become friends.

06:58 - After undergoing that

06:59 - and they decided

07:00 - to come to the United States.

07:02 - Where did you find that story?

07:04 - A couple of different places.

07:06 - A couple of different places.

07:07 - This was the only fictional

07:09 - book I've written.

07:10 - And as you know I write

07:11 - murder mysteries and I've

07:12 - written other historical

07:14 - fiction but this is

07:15 - the only fictional book

07:16 - I've ever written that I

07:17 - really thought I should

07:18 - do a bibliography for.

07:19 - But by the time that

07:21 - thought dawned on

07:22 - me I was so deep into

07:23 - the research and

07:24 - I didn't have

07:25 - everything written down

07:26 - or I just said forget

07:28 - it it's fiction.

07:29 - So I can't tell you oh

07:30 - that was in such and such.

07:31 - But it's a well-known story.

07:34 - It's in two or three

07:36 - different writings

07:37 - that are not too far

07:39 - removed from the

07:40 - period so it makes a

07:42 - good story whether

07:43 - it's absolutely true, who knows?

07:46 - Why did you decide to

07:47 - take the historical

07:48 - fiction route instead

07:49 - of a nonfiction book?

07:50 - Fiction's more

07:51 - forgiving in the sense

07:53 - that as I said

07:54 - earlier when we were

07:56 - chatting before the

07:57 - show started, if

07:58 - I couldn't find

07:59 - information like the

08:01 - name of the boat,

08:02 - ship, excuse me, that

08:03 - Talon and Laporte

08:04 - came on came over

08:06 - to the United States on I looked

08:08 - everywhere I could

08:09 - not find the name.

08:10 - So I had to make it up.

08:11 - So I made it up.

08:14 - I made it up

08:16 - having read about

08:16 - ships of the time and

08:18 - what they were called

08:19 - and where they

08:19 - were from and and

08:20 - tried to make it

08:21 - as authentic and

08:22 - likely as possible.

08:23 - But it's still made up.

08:25 - That's why.

08:25 - Because historical

08:27 - fiction so much

08:29 - is lost that you can make it up.

08:32 - But if you're just

08:33 - doing historical

08:34 - nonfiction there'd

08:35 - be a lot of holes.

08:36 - We have a footnote

08:37 - saying I do not

08:38 - know what the name

08:39 - of the ship is.

08:40 - And fiction is the

08:41 - genre I write in.

08:42 - So that was the other

08:43 - reason really.

08:44 - The characters in your

08:46 - book are all real?

08:47 - Majority of them are real.

08:50 - There are a few add ins just

08:52 - to further the story and to

08:54 - you know I don't know for

08:55 - instance there's a scene where

08:57 - Elizabeth who

08:58 - marries Bartholomew

08:59 - eventually has two of

09:01 - her friends and they're acting

09:03 - out plays or something.

09:04 - Well I don't know who her

09:05 - friends were at Azilum,

09:06 - we don't have any

09:07 - documents that say that.

09:08 - So I just sort of made them

09:10 - up but they're not central

09:11 - to the story but the central

09:13 - characters they're all

09:14 - real they're all historical

09:15 - people and in as far as I

09:17 - could find anything about what

09:18 - kind of people they were.

09:20 - They're accurate as

09:21 - far as that goes.

09:22 - What kind of documents

09:24 - exist from Azilum?

09:25 - Thank goodness we have

09:26 - the Internet now.

09:27 - When I was in grad school we

09:29 - didn't have the Internet,

09:30 - It was just paper

09:32 - but the internet

09:35 - has a lot of books

09:37 - and documentation

09:40 - ship manifests and even trade

09:43 - agreements letters of credit.

09:47 - And we have some of that

09:49 - type of document also

09:50 - in our research library

09:51 - at French Azilum.

09:52 - And I'm very fortunate as a

09:54 - board member to have had

09:55 - access to the library and

09:57 - our wonderful site director

09:59 - Lee Klein Smith who was really

10:01 - very supportive and was

10:02 - like well here you can

10:03 - look at anything you want.

10:05 - It was like, "Oh thank you!"

10:06 - So it was nice to be

10:07 - able to paw through

10:09 - all that and and

10:10 - see what we had.

10:11 - But unfortunately

10:12 - nobody has like diaries

10:14 - of so-and-so or the

10:15 - closest I got to that

10:17 - was the Duc de La

10:18 - Rochefoucauld had come

10:20 - he had done a great

10:22 - tour of North America

10:23 - and he had visited

10:25 - Azilum in 1795 I think

10:27 - and he had written

10:28 - his travels in North

10:30 - America in French

10:31 - which is what I read

10:33 - it in, I think it's

10:34 - been translated but

10:36 - So that was a contemporary

10:38 - primary source.

10:39 - But as far as primary

10:40 - source materials of people

10:42 - who lived at Azilum, I

10:43 - have not found that.

10:45 - The closest that I got

10:46 - was a letter that was

10:48 - in a shoe box of stuff

10:49 - that was handed to me.

10:51 - One day they said, "Here!"

10:53 - It was a letter

10:54 - actually written by

10:55 - Bartholomew and I

10:56 - just I got all teared

10:57 - up when I saw it

10:58 - because it was like

10:59 - touching something

11:00 - that this man I've

11:01 - been writing about

11:02 - because I was about

11:04 - halfway through the

11:05 - book and there

11:06 - was this letter and

11:07 - I just I gasped I

11:08 - just picked it up

11:09 - it was so exciting.

11:10 - But he was talking about

11:11 - sheep, it wasn't too exciting.

11:12 - He is the LaPorte

11:14 - that The LaPorte

11:15 - Inheritance is named after?

11:17 - Well it's really for the family.

11:18 - He would I would say he

11:20 - would be the paterfamilias,

11:22 - the head of the

11:23 - family because he was

11:25 - the LaPorte who came

11:27 - over to Azilum and

11:29 - started with Omer

11:31 - Talon not started

11:32 - Azilum but governed

11:34 - shall we say Azilum.

11:36 - They were kind of the mayors the

11:39 - directors Omer Talon was the

11:41 - director and then Bartholomew

11:43 - Laporte was his right hand man.

11:46 - And then after a few

11:48 - years Omer Talon's

11:50 - wife who had stayed

11:51 - in Belgium was ill,

11:53 - so Omer Talon left and

11:55 - Bartholomew Laporte kind of

11:57 - took over running the place

11:59 - and then in 1802 when

12:01 - Napoleon pardoned everyone

12:03 - who had fled the revolution

12:06 - and been against the

12:07 - revolution and so forth,

12:09 - The majority of the 50 families

12:11 - 50 or so who had come to Azilum

12:13 - left all but four; the Laportes,

12:15 - the O'Mays the Prevosts

12:17 - the Lefevre families stayed in

12:19 - the area stayed at Azilum but

12:21 - of course as they aged out their

12:23 - children moved elsewhere,

12:24 - and so by 1830-ish

12:27 - there was pretty

12:29 - much nothing left, you know?

12:32 - What's there now?

12:34 - Beautiful countryside

12:36 - and a house

12:37 - that John LaPorte

12:39 - who was the son

12:40 - of Bartholomew Laporte built in

12:43 - 1836 called The LaPorte House.

12:45 - Very clever.

12:47 - But it's a lovely French

12:49 - colonial dwelling.

12:51 - And John Laporte used

12:52 - it as a summer home and

12:53 - his family as it is

12:55 - their summer home until

12:56 - after the Civil War

12:57 - and then they sold it

12:58 - on to another local

12:59 - family, The Hagermans

13:01 - and they stayed in it until the

13:03 - 1960s I believe and then French

13:04 - Azilum incorporated took it over

13:06 - and ran it as a historical site.

13:08 - So it's open to the public?

13:09 - It is usually from

13:11 - Memorial Day-ish through

13:13 - sometime in September

13:15 - depending on

13:16 - sometimes we have special

13:18 - events in between all

13:19 - of that but we usually

13:21 - have events every month.

13:23 - If you go there what do you see?

13:24 - What kind of events?

13:25 - We have Revolutionary War

13:27 - encampments and skirmishes.

13:30 - We have we're having

13:31 - a Napoleonic one.

13:33 - We have civil war there

13:35 - because we have 22

13:37 - acres and it's perfect

13:39 - for that kind of thing.

13:41 - We have living history

13:43 - re-enactments.

13:44 - We have market fairs.

13:47 - We have a family fun

13:48 - day and I'm probably

13:50 - forgetting a whole

13:51 - bunch of things.

13:52 - But we had an artisans

13:53 - and art exhibit

13:54 - and we'll probably

13:55 - do that again.

13:56 - Plus there's always tours of The

13:58 - Laporte House and

13:59 - some artifacts and

14:01 - history about the place that you

14:03 - want to learn about

14:04 - and you get it.

14:05 - And you're part of that?

14:06 - I'm on the board

14:08 - and I also docent

14:09 - I give tours at the house and I

14:12 - curate their period

14:14 - clothing exhibit

14:15 - which is I was very excited

14:18 - I do that for another

14:19 - historic home

14:19 - in the area the

14:20 - oldest house which

14:21 - is in Laceyville

14:22 - which is 50 years

14:23 - older than the LaPorte house.

14:24 - But when I got on the board at

14:26 - the French Azilum and I went

14:28 - through the clothes that they

14:30 - had they had quite a bit.

14:31 - It was most of it was

14:33 - mid to late Victorian

14:34 - but they had a lot of

14:35 - really neat stuff.

14:36 - And so combining with my own

14:39 - collection because I collect

14:41 - authentic period clothes too we

14:44 - have a display of period clothes

14:46 - from about 1772, and it's real

14:49 - not fake, up through about World

14:51 - War One and that displays change

14:54 - too the clothing displays.

14:56 - Do you wear any of it?

14:57 - Well some most of

14:59 - the stuff that's

15:00 - that old is way too fragile.

15:02 - So I put it on mannequins

15:04 - actually my friends

15:05 - come and I call it dress

15:06 - the dummies my friends

15:08 - and I go and we make a

15:09 - day of it and we dress

15:10 - the mannequins and we

15:11 - just leave them there.

15:13 - But it's really kind of fun.

15:15 - And it's fun to stage

15:17 - that house and

15:18 - just like the oldest

15:20 - house to stage it.

15:21 - And change the displays

15:23 - and change the

15:24 - emphasis depending

15:25 - on the exhibits.

15:27 - So French Azilum was essentially

15:28 - a planned community?

15:29 - It was.

15:30 - They laid out the

15:30 - streets and the houses?

15:31 - They did and there

15:32 - were nine streets one

15:34 - central Boulevard called

15:35 - Le Grand Boulevard

15:37 - that was 100 feet

15:38 - wide which is pretty

15:39 - impressive especially

15:41 - for that time even.

15:42 - This time it's

15:43 - pretty impressive.

15:45 - And then there were

15:46 - four other roads

15:48 - and then five going this way.

15:50 - It's crossroads in the center

15:52 - was a two acre town square.

15:54 - And there was a church and a

15:57 - theater, shops, market places.

16:01 - There was a green

16:02 - trying to think

16:03 - what else there

16:04 - was even a dance.

16:05 - I wouldn't say a dance hall but

16:08 - like a dance pavilion they had

16:10 - dances obviously band concerts

16:13 - music some of the

16:14 - people who also

16:16 - settled at French Azilum had

16:18 - come from the islands that were

16:21 - French. Haiti and Santo Domingo

16:23 - especially or Saint-Domingue.

16:26 - And that would have been a

16:27 - French colony and there was

16:28 - an uprising there about the

16:30 - same time a slave uprising.

16:31 - Some of the French nobility who

16:33 - had settled there fled and

16:35 - ended up at Azilum and they

16:36 - brought their slaves with them.

16:38 - So there were some slaves there

16:40 - were also some servants because

16:41 - the French people hired local

16:43 - people to be their servants.

16:44 - Slavery was legal in

16:45 - Pennsylvania at that time?

16:47 - I don't know.

16:48 - I have no clue.

16:49 - You tell me.

16:50 - Probably not.

16:51 - I don't know.

16:52 - Maybe it was back then.

16:54 - But the slaves had come with

16:56 - them in the servants as

16:57 - long as you paid them something

17:00 - which could be a dime.

17:01 - They were that was

17:02 - legal so they were

17:04 - working and they were

17:05 - usually the musicians

17:06 - you know and they're

17:08 - the ones who would

17:09 - play and the the

17:10 - community was built

17:11 - as I said the town square and

17:13 - the shops and so forth and then

17:15 - around them on the streets were

17:17 - the residential areas those half

17:20 - acre plots with the house and so

17:22 - forth sort of like Levittown but

17:24 - an old fashioned Levittown and

17:26 - beyond that were the orchards.

17:28 - We still have some

17:29 - original Apple trees

17:31 - and pear trees and

17:32 - French lilacs too.

17:33 - And then beyond that were the

17:35 - grazing lands pastoral lands and

17:37 - so forth the French were quite

17:38 - good with animal husbandry.

17:40 - What were the houses like?

17:42 - Two bed chambers on

17:43 - the top floor and two

17:45 - reception rooms on

17:46 - the ground floor.

17:47 - They were made of

17:48 - wood so they were

17:50 - wood log cabins in the sense of

17:52 - they were wood

17:53 - frame homes though

17:54 - and the corners were finished.

17:56 - So it wasn't like

17:57 - the rounded corners

17:59 - like a log cabin we

18:00 - think is so cute.

18:01 - We like it but in

18:02 - those days that

18:03 - was very sophisticated to have

18:05 - you know finished corners and

18:07 - underneath the dining room was

18:09 - separate and the cookhouse was

18:11 - separate from the

18:12 - main house because

18:14 - in those days they didn't want

18:16 - the smell of food in the house.

18:18 - So under the dining room they

18:20 - had a wine cellar and then the

18:22 - dining hall was connected to the

18:24 - cookhouse by a covered walkway.

18:26 - And then they had a whole

18:27 - half acre so they planted

18:29 - gardens and they had

18:30 - gazebos and trellises.

18:31 - And this is all from

18:33 - contemporary or near

18:34 - contemporary accounts

18:36 - of the settlement.

18:38 - There's a young woman there

18:39 - was a young woman named

18:41 - Elsie Murray and she was a

18:42 - descendant of the LaPortes.

18:44 - I couldn't tell you exactly what

18:46 - a great granddaughter I think.

18:48 - And she wrote a book

18:49 - called "Some French

18:50 - Refugees and their

18:52 - Azilum" wonderful

18:53 - resource and she is

18:54 - the one now she knew

18:56 - people who had been

18:57 - at Azilum and they

18:58 - might have been very

18:59 - old when she talked

19:01 - to them or it might

19:02 - have been the

19:03 - daughters of those

19:04 - people or sons who but

19:06 - it was within living

19:07 - memory by that time

19:09 - And so when she wrote this

19:10 - book she's as close to a

19:12 - primary source as I could get

19:14 - and it was very interesting

19:16 - to read her account, hopefully

19:17 - she didn't embellish

19:19 - it but her account of

19:20 - the the way they lived.

19:22 - So it was the 1790s or so?

19:24 - 1793-94 they started they'd gone

19:26 - in the summer and then in the

19:27 - fall they went back and started

19:29 - actually building the houses.

19:31 - And of course they had

19:32 - to stop for winter

19:34 - and then they started

19:35 - again only a few

19:36 - families came then

19:37 - the influx the grand

19:38 - influx was the

19:39 - following year 1794.

19:40 - How big did it get?

19:41 - Fiftyish families

19:42 - about 50 families

19:44 - 200 some people at its height.

19:46 - Was it considered a

19:47 - financial success?

19:48 - No.

19:49 - How big were they hoping?

19:51 - For a few years.

19:52 - It held its own.

19:53 - I think people were fairly

19:55 - sanguine about its future.

19:56 - But then it was like a

19:58 - perfect storm a lot

19:59 - of things happened

20:00 - some of the trade that

20:02 - the French colony

20:03 - had developed some

20:04 - certain things that

20:05 - they were very good at

20:07 - doing like maple sugaring

20:08 - and the uses for

20:09 - pine pitch that they

20:11 - had developed other

20:12 - merchants in the area

20:13 - had said oh well we

20:15 - can do that and found

20:16 - their own sources.

20:17 - And because the other

20:18 - merchants were

20:19 - bigger and had

20:19 - more trading posts

20:20 - they undercut French Azilum's

20:23 - so the trade diminished.

20:26 - When most of the

20:27 - people left in 1802

20:29 - That was kind of

20:30 - the death knell.

20:31 - And at that time there had

20:34 - been some unpleasantness

20:38 - between the French colony

20:41 - colonists and the settlers.

20:44 - The colonial settlers

20:45 - if you will.

20:46 - They thought the French were

20:47 - kind of actually I think the

20:49 - colonial settlers thought the

20:51 - French were hifalutin

20:52 - but they also

20:53 - thought that they were quite

20:55 - interesting the way

20:56 - they lived their

20:57 - lives and built their homes and

20:59 - went about their business.

21:01 - But the French look down

21:02 - on the colonial settlers

21:04 - as almost savage which

21:06 - of course they weren't.

21:07 - But you know.

21:09 - But the French were

21:10 - the the aristocrats.

21:11 - Would they have

21:12 - known how to farm?

21:13 - Oh no.

21:14 - That's why they

21:15 - hired local help so

21:16 - they were great for

21:17 - the local economy.

21:18 - Not so much for French Azilum.

21:20 - The other

21:21 - thing that happened

21:22 - was some of the

21:23 - investors in Azilum

21:24 - Company had extended

21:26 - their credit beyond

21:27 - what they should have.

21:29 - And so they didn't

21:31 - have very good

21:32 - finances and that

21:34 - impacted Azilum.

21:36 - So they ended up when

21:38 - the people all left.

21:40 - Bartholomew LaPorte who was I

21:42 - think a very clever man and

21:43 - he could always anticipate

21:45 - he was a businessman but he

21:46 - always was looking down the

21:47 - road to see you know what are

21:49 - people going to need five years

21:50 - from now let me get it now.

21:52 - Let me start it now.

21:53 - He was very clever that way.

21:55 - He bought a lot of the land

21:57 - that French Azilum had owned.

21:59 - And then of course

22:01 - over the subsequent

22:02 - centuries or century

22:03 - and a half he would

22:04 - sell it or leave it

22:05 - to his son and his

22:07 - son could sell it

22:08 - off as he saw fit.

22:09 - So 1793, how far was

22:11 - Azilum from Philadelphia?

22:14 - Three hundred miles.

22:17 - How would you have gotten there?

22:19 - It was not easy.

22:20 - The gentleman I mentioned

22:22 - before the Duc de

22:23 - La Rochefoucauld one

22:25 - of my favorite lines

22:26 - from his memories of

22:27 - travels in North America

22:29 - and he did visit

22:30 - Azilum but he traveled

22:32 - extensively in Pennsylvania

22:34 - and his comment

22:35 - was that art is not

22:36 - well acquainted with

22:38 - Pennsylvania roadways

22:39 - which I might say

22:40 - is true still today,

22:42 - no offense PennDOT.

22:43 - But anyway they the majority

22:46 - of people would have come from

22:48 - Philadelphia and gone west to

22:51 - like Sunbury and

22:52 - then gone north.

22:54 - However because again

22:55 - it's fiction so

22:56 - I could take a little

22:58 - bit of license.

22:59 - I had no information

23:00 - on how Bartholomew

23:02 - Laporte and Omer Talon

23:04 - themselves went there.

23:06 - So being more familiar

23:08 - having lived in

23:09 - Philadelphia and so

23:10 - forth I just decided

23:12 - that they would have

23:13 - gone by stage coach

23:15 - up to Bethlehem and

23:16 - from Bethlehem.

23:18 - And I found that there

23:19 - was a coach indeed

23:20 - from Bethlehem to

23:21 - Philadelphia who knew.

23:23 - And then they would

23:24 - have gone from

23:25 - Bethlehem up there were roads.

23:27 - It would have taken

23:28 - awhile horseback.

23:29 - And then when they got to

23:31 - Wilkes-Barre and then to

23:32 - Tunkhannock then they would

23:34 - have taken the north

23:35 - branch up going upstream

23:37 - in the Susquehanna is

23:38 - not easy it's much easier

23:40 - to come downstream.

23:41 - The Susquehanna was the

23:42 - highway in those days there

23:44 - were roads but it wasn't

23:45 - they weren't great but they

23:47 - traveled in the summer and

23:48 - the roads unless they got

23:49 - a real gully washer rain the

23:51 - roads were pretty good.

23:52 - You know as far as

23:53 - hard packed dirt.

23:54 - So they managed.

23:55 - You write about Durham

23:56 - boats in this for

23:56 - those who don't know

23:57 - what's a Durham boat?

23:58 - It's a flat bottomed

24:00 - boat pointed

24:02 - at both ends sort of like a

24:05 - gondola on steroids because it's

24:09 - wide and flat very shallow draw.

24:12 - I don't remember

24:13 - exactly it's something

24:14 - like 16 or 20 inches because

24:16 - the river is not

24:17 - always very deep

24:18 - depending on the

24:19 - rain and so forth.

24:20 - And they were used extensively

24:22 - on the Susquehanna thousands

24:25 - of about a thousand a month

24:27 - could go past one single point.

24:30 - And so they were.

24:31 - They carried people

24:32 - they carried goods and

24:33 - they made stops all

24:34 - the way along the

24:35 - river you know and

24:36 - also having them go

24:37 - that way I could work

24:38 - the Oldest House,

24:39 - my other my other love my

24:40 - other historic home that I

24:41 - that I am on the board for

24:43 - and that I docent at that

24:44 - I could work that into the

24:45 - story because they stopped

24:47 - there for dinner I think

24:48 - or overnight or something.

24:50 - Is there any record

24:51 - of whether the

24:51 - people who lived there liked it?

24:54 - As I said we don't really

24:56 - have any you know diaries or

24:58 - books or comments of people

25:01 - who who actually lived there.

25:03 - Unfortunately as I said the

25:04 - only letter I found from

25:06 - somebody who actually lived

25:07 - there from Bartholomew was

25:08 - about sheep that he had gotten

25:10 - from someone when he was

25:11 - complaining because two of

25:12 - them had died or something.

25:14 - So unfortunately

25:14 - they didn't write

25:15 - that or if they did

25:16 - we don't have it.

25:17 - I would imagine that

25:19 - they found it not

25:20 - unpleasant because it

25:22 - was similar in a way

25:24 - to the countryside

25:26 - of France and where

25:28 - they would have had

25:29 - their great estates.

25:31 - Did they miss having

25:32 - their great estates?

25:33 - Undoubtedly because this was as

25:35 - you said a planned community.

25:37 - They had a house.

25:38 - And inside they had brought

25:39 - their guilt and their

25:40 - furnishings and their tapestries

25:42 - and so forth and so on.

25:43 - And it was very nice inside but

25:45 - it was still a

25:46 - planned community.

25:48 - It wasn't like your own little

25:49 - castle and you go out at the

25:51 - gates and you've got all your

25:53 - territory to go riding it.

25:54 - So I don't know.

25:57 - I would imagine.

25:58 - But they made the most of it.

26:00 - They they went picnicking

26:02 - and riding and

26:04 - they enjoyed life

26:05 - as best they could.

26:07 - They love their gardens and they

26:09 - planted a lot of

26:11 - really nice gardens.

26:12 - Could it be self-sustaining

26:13 - or did they have to trade?

26:14 - That was the goal with trade.

26:17 - I think if trade had if

26:18 - the trade had flourished

26:20 - I think it would have

26:21 - been self-sustaining.

26:22 - Who knows what would

26:23 - have happened?

26:24 - You know it's kind of cool to

26:26 - think about it but because

26:28 - the trade fell off and because

26:30 - Napoleon pardoned everyone.

26:32 - I think the winters

26:33 - were possibly

26:34 - the worst part for them.

26:36 - You said did they enjoy it.

26:37 - Probably until about November.

26:39 - They enjoyed it.

26:40 - And then in the winter

26:42 - time if you got a lot

26:44 - of snow you were stuck

26:46 - there for maybe weeks.

26:48 - And that must have been

26:50 - very difficult for them.

26:52 - So of all the people

26:53 - who lived in that town

26:55 - how did you decide

26:56 - who to write about?

26:57 - What happened was I

26:58 - started on the board

26:59 - and said, "Oh yes

27:00 - sure I'll learn how

27:01 - to give tours," so you

27:02 - have to learn some

27:03 - of the history and

27:04 - so forth and so on.

27:05 - And then I started a check, I

27:07 - catalogued what they what French

27:09 - Azilum owns as far

27:10 - as their period

27:11 - clothing and added

27:12 - some of my own

27:13 - collection and started thinking

27:15 - about how I would

27:17 - do an exhibit and

27:18 - mount this exhibit

27:19 - and it's a wonderful

27:21 - space for that kind of thing.

27:23 - It's lovely and light

27:24 - and airy and lots of

27:26 - rooms and lots of

27:27 - opportunities for different

27:29 - kinds of exploration

27:31 - of what people wore

27:32 - when and how and for

27:34 - different things.

27:35 - So I spent a lot of time

27:37 - in the House and the

27:39 - person who attracted

27:40 - me first was Elizabeth

27:42 - who was the first

27:44 - person you meet in the

27:46 - book and she is Bartholomew's

27:48 - granddaughter.

27:49 - But oddly enough it didn't

27:51 - end up being a book about

27:53 - Elizabeth it really ended

27:54 - up being a book about

27:55 - Bartholomew because the more

27:57 - I learned about him and

27:59 - the more I wrote about him

28:00 - the more I liked him.

28:02 - So he's I would say the central

28:04 - character and of course

28:06 - he marries a woman named

28:07 - Elizabeth and they have John

28:10 - and then John marries twice

28:12 - but his first wife he has

28:13 - three children one of whom

28:15 - is Elizabeth the younger.

28:17 - So Bartholomew was the

28:20 - ringleader of it all?

28:22 - Well he was, he and Omer

28:23 - Talon were the ringleaders,

28:25 - if you want to use

28:26 - that term, of Azilum.

28:28 - But he's the main,

28:29 - as I said he's the paterfamilias

28:31 - of the LaPorte family.

28:33 - Omer Talon had a

28:34 - plan to rescue Marie

28:35 - Antoinette and bring

28:36 - her to Azilum?

28:37 - Not in my book you

28:38 - didn't read that.

28:39 - I guess I read online, there

28:41 - are things online about it.

28:43 - Well people wanted to

28:44 - rescue Marie Antoinette.

28:45 - They knew by the time

28:47 - they started building

28:48 - Azilum they knew

28:49 - that King Louis the

28:51 - 16th had been

28:51 - guillotined but Marie

28:53 - Antoinette wasn't

28:54 - guillotined until 1793.

28:56 - I think it was October 16th.

28:58 - So they didn't find

29:00 - out till 1794.

29:01 - So Azilum was under way.

29:03 - The hope was you

29:05 - know the nobility

29:07 - would come to Azilum

29:09 - and then well who's more

29:10 - noble than the queen?

29:11 - Wouldn't that be amazing?

29:13 - Do you think Marie

29:13 - Antoinette would have

29:14 - ended up on the

29:15 - Susquehanna River?

29:16 - Frankly?

29:16 - No. But she might have

29:17 - visited and she probably

29:19 - would have based herself

29:20 - in Philadelphia.

29:21 - But Philadelphia at the time in

29:23 - fact 1793 was quite a bad year.

29:25 - They had yellow fever

29:27 - epidemics every summer and

29:29 - people would flee to the

29:30 - country which in those

29:32 - days meant you know like

29:34 - Germantown or something

29:35 - not far. But they would

29:37 - go outside the city.

29:38 - And a lot of them

29:39 - would go outside

29:40 - the city and they would spend

29:42 - months in the countryside and

29:44 - they could have come to Azilum.

29:46 - So could Marie Antoinette

29:47 - have done that

29:48 - absolutely that I think is

29:50 - credible or believable.

29:52 - Settling there I don't think

29:53 - so but they did build a

29:55 - house for her at French

29:56 - asylum called La Grand Maison

29:58 - which was very grand indeed

30:00 - it was very big it was three

30:02 - stories high and like 80

30:03 - by 120 feet it was huge.

30:05 - Had seven rooms on

30:06 - the two top floors

30:07 - and grand reception

30:08 - rooms and black

30:09 - walnut and marble

30:11 - staircases and just

30:12 - very ornate very

30:13 - like the Versailles.

30:14 - In fact somebody referred

30:15 - to Azilum as the Versailles

30:17 - on the Susquehanna which

30:18 - is a bit of a stretch.

30:19 - But Marie Antoinette did really

30:22 - like the countryside she did

30:24 - enjoy rural pursuits she liked

30:26 - bucolic beauty in

30:28 - that sense yes.

30:29 - Azilum would fit her very well.

30:31 - Now I don't know if it

30:33 - was from this book or

30:34 - from reading online Louis

30:36 - Felipe visited Azilum?

30:37 - Yes while he was the

30:39 - Duke of Orleans

30:40 - he visited Azilum

30:41 - there was a period

30:42 - of I think close

30:43 - to 30 years where

30:44 - he was in exile

30:45 - when Napoleon was

30:46 - in power and he went

30:47 - all over the place

30:48 - and after he got tired of Europe

30:50 - he came over and

30:51 - went all over North

30:52 - America and he did visit Azilum.

30:54 - As one of the weird artifacts

30:57 - that we have at Azilum is a

30:59 - bust of Louis Felipe that was

31:01 - carved when he was visiting.

31:04 - And then it was lost

31:05 - for a long time.

31:07 - It's a wooden bust

31:08 - until it was found,

31:09 - I think in the 1920s

31:11 - under a porch

31:12 - of a house in a nearby town.

31:15 - Now how they figured

31:16 - out maybe there

31:16 - was a note with it or something.

31:18 - I don't know.

31:19 - But we do have that.

31:21 - You mentioned the name

31:22 - of Theophilus Cazenove?

31:24 - Theophilus Cazenove.

31:26 - Yeah.

31:27 - Who is he?

31:27 - He was a Dutch businessman who

31:31 - was living in Philadelphia at

31:34 - the time 1793 and he was always

31:37 - looking for a good investment.

31:41 - And he also had a reputation

31:44 - of having a wonderful table.

31:47 - So if you got to go to

31:48 - his dinner and invited

31:50 - to go to his house for

31:52 - dinner you were a lucky

31:54 - person and he had like

31:55 - the elite you know the

31:57 - inner circle of society

31:59 - would go and visit him.

32:01 - And so he was instrumental

32:02 - in pulling together

32:04 - the consortium that became

32:05 - his Azilum Company.

32:06 - But he didn't ever

32:07 - make any money on it.

32:08 - Not really none of

32:10 - them really did.

32:11 - So when when did it

32:13 - start going downhill?

32:16 - Probably about the time that

32:18 - Napoleon pardoned everybody.

32:21 - I think that was the worst

32:22 - part as I said that was the

32:23 - death knell because everybody

32:25 - left except four families.

32:26 - You can't have a settlement

32:28 - with four families.

32:30 - And so it just wasn't

32:32 - viable at that point.

32:33 - So they were safe going back

32:34 - to France at that point?

32:35 - Yes because the pardons

32:37 - had been issued and

32:38 - they went back knowing

32:39 - that they weren't

32:40 - going to get their stately

32:42 - homes and chateau

32:43 - back but they

32:44 - preferred to be home.

32:45 - And a lot of them had

32:47 - left family there

32:48 - and I guess they just

32:50 - wanted to go back.

32:51 - Did you find any living

32:53 - descendants of--

32:54 - Many. In fact we have

32:56 - a descendants day

32:57 - every year at Azilum

32:58 - and we invite

32:59 - the descendants of

33:00 - any of the families

33:02 - who were at Azilum

33:03 - not even the ones

33:04 - who ended up leaving

33:05 - if there were any

33:07 - still here because

33:08 - children of people

33:09 - like adult children

33:10 - maybe the families

33:12 - went home but the

33:13 - children stayed?

33:14 - We didn't know that

33:15 - so anybody but

33:16 - usually it's the

33:17 - four families who

33:18 - stayed who have the

33:19 - most descendants

33:20 - and we invite them to come back.

33:21 - And this year we had I

33:23 - think I had two which

33:25 - doesn't sound like a lot

33:26 - but it's exciting for me.

33:28 - We had the Laporte descendant.

33:30 - And there were about 10

33:32 - of them who all came and

33:33 - I think we had an O'May

33:35 - descendant as well.

33:36 - How did you get into

33:37 - collecting period clothing?

33:38 - I don't know.

33:40 - I'm guessing that you would

33:41 - take up a lot of space.

33:42 - Oh please.

33:44 - My friend Carl I can

33:44 - tell you about that.

33:45 - You just helped me

33:46 - organize the collection

33:47 - that I have in my

33:48 - basement stored in

33:49 - my basement which is

33:50 - humidity controlled

33:51 - and in the dark and

33:52 - everything is safe.

33:53 - But I wanted to

33:54 - organize it by period.

33:57 - And so.

33:57 - And also list everything.

33:58 - So when I need for instance and

34:00 - if I'm doing a mourning exhibit

34:02 - or something, mourning as in sad

34:04 - not morning as in time of day.

34:06 - I need to be able

34:07 - to look and pick

34:09 - out black black

34:10 - black black black.

34:11 - I started when I got

34:13 - on the board of the

34:14 - Oldest House I became

34:15 - active there about

34:17 - a dozen years ago and

34:18 - that's in Laceyville.

34:20 - I mentioned that

34:21 - was built around

34:22 - 1781 and they had a

34:23 - few pieces like five

34:25 - or six pieces of

34:26 - things that people had

34:28 - donated and I said

34:29 - well let's group that

34:30 - together and you

34:32 - know make something.

34:33 - So I did and people

34:34 - oh that's nice.

34:35 - I thought it should be bigger.

34:37 - So I started going

34:38 - online and just

34:39 - looking and going to auctions

34:41 - and seeing and you know

34:42 - supplementing it

34:43 - with a few things.

34:44 - Well 500 pieces later

34:48 - at least here I am.

34:52 - And it's it's kind

34:53 - of fun because now

34:54 - I can specifically

34:56 - look for things

34:57 - like I'm looking for

34:58 - this particular

35:00 - period and can see

35:01 - what people have.

35:02 - Sometimes they don't

35:03 - know what they have.

35:04 - You mentioned the Oldest House a

35:06 - couple of times what is that?

35:07 - It's a house that was built

35:10 - we think in 1781 and it's in

35:12 - Laceyville, Pennsylvania it's

35:14 - right on the Susquehanna River.

35:16 - And we say we think because

35:18 - we just we're having the

35:20 - dendrochronology study done now

35:22 - but its results aren't in yet.

35:24 - There are various reports.

35:26 - One one historical

35:27 - document that we've read.

35:29 - We can't find the deed.

35:30 - So we don't know yet.

35:32 - We're still working on that.

35:33 - Hopefully we will find

35:34 - the deed and then

35:35 - we will know exactly

35:35 - when it was built.

35:36 - But we had a beam taken out when

35:38 - we were redoing the foundation.

35:40 - This past summer and the

35:41 - beam has gone off to

35:43 - Cornell for analysis

35:44 - so they should be able

35:46 - to tell us the month

35:47 - and the year of that

35:48 - beam and that was one

35:50 - of the original beams.

35:51 - So that will give

35:52 - us a pretty good

35:53 - date for when the

35:54 - house was built.

35:55 - But it could be 1781 could

35:57 - be 1786 or could be 1791.

35:59 - Those are the three times.

36:01 - But those are

36:01 - newspaper accounts.

36:02 - Two hundred years later we don't

36:04 - know if they were

36:04 - accurate or not.

36:05 - So 1781 is what I've

36:07 - always been told.

36:09 - You've written a series of books

36:10 - based on the Oldest House?

36:11 - Yeah I have four of those.

36:13 - And that's just the series,

36:15 - "A River in Time."

36:16 - They're all something in

36:18 - time and that's not as

36:20 - much of a historical

36:21 - fiction as the LaPorte

36:23 - Inheritance is in the sense

36:25 - that that's more fiction.

36:27 - There's even less stuff

36:28 - to learn about the

36:29 - people who lived there

36:31 - than there is about

36:32 - the Laportes because

36:33 - John Laporte the son

36:35 - of Bartholomew was a U.S.

36:36 - congressman.

36:37 - He was a judge he was a

36:38 - banker he was a lawyer.

36:39 - He was a Pennsylvania

36:40 - surveyor general.

36:41 - So there is documentation

36:42 - about him in his

36:43 - life and there's more

36:45 - to learn about that.

36:46 - There's some as I

36:47 - said Elsie Murray's

36:48 - book there are other

36:48 - books about it.

36:49 - So you can learn stuff. Nobody

36:51 - has written anything about the

36:53 - Oldest House but I focus on the

36:55 - second family to live there.

36:57 - The Sturdivant family and

36:58 - it's actually it's kind

37:00 - of it's not science fiction

37:02 - but it's a it's about

37:03 - someone who like me and like

37:05 - my fellow board members

37:07 - and tour guides is dressed

37:08 - in period garb at

37:10 - the oldest house waiting

37:11 - to give a tour and either

37:13 - falls asleep and has a

37:14 - dream or steps through a

37:16 - time portal into a wormhole

37:18 - and wakes up and it's

37:19 - 1795 and she cannot figure

37:21 - out how to get home.

37:22 - So obviously she stays because

37:25 - there are four books.

37:26 - But that's done that

37:28 - series is finished now.

37:29 - Is the oldest house

37:30 - open to the public?

37:31 - Yes.

37:32 - That's a 5 0 1 c 3 also.

37:34 - And we're open the same

37:35 - roughly summertime.

37:37 - Summertime is a very busy time

37:39 - for me because I'm

37:40 - at both houses and

37:41 - about one day a

37:42 - week I'm at mine.

37:44 - How far apart are they?

37:44 - The Oldest House is

37:46 - right in Laceyville and

37:48 - about 20 miles 24 miles

37:50 - away is French Azilum.

37:53 - So it's not too bad, 24 miles.

37:55 - So when you decided

37:56 - you were going

37:57 - to write this historical novel

37:59 - and you started with a blank

38:01 - everything how did you commence?

38:03 - The LaPorte

38:04 - Inheritance you mean?

38:05 - Well as I said I was spending a

38:07 - lot of time there mounting the

38:09 - clothing exhibit and moving

38:10 - furniture and

38:11 - restaging rooms and

38:12 - kind of making it like a house

38:14 - that you would want to live in

38:16 - because the mannequins with the

38:18 - clothes live in that house.

38:19 - That's impression people

38:20 - get when they come

38:21 - that's why I did it

38:22 - because when visitors

38:24 - come I want them to

38:25 - feel like they've come

38:26 - to visit the LaPortes

38:27 - and here they are.

38:28 - You know that kind of thing.

38:31 - I was there a lot a lot.

38:34 - Hours and hours and hours.

38:35 - And the House and its echoes

38:37 - just sort of spoke to me.

38:39 - If you want to get

38:41 - a little woo woo.

38:43 - And as I said Elizabeth's

38:45 - story kind of

38:46 - struck me first but

38:47 - Bartholomew story is

38:49 - the one that the more

38:51 - I learned about him

38:52 - the more I liked him

38:54 - and he took over.

38:55 - You notice there's a

38:57 - doll on the front of the

38:58 - of the book and that

39:00 - is the LaPorte doll.

39:01 - And that story is sort of

39:03 - key to the book but also I

39:06 - think why I kind of liked

39:08 - Elizabeth and her story.

39:10 - Not that I'm a doll person

39:11 - because I'm really not.

39:12 - But Elizabeth was a young

39:14 - girl and her grandmother who

39:17 - was Bartholomew's wife gave

39:20 - her that doll. The dress

39:22 - that the doll is wearing

39:24 - was made from a dress that

39:27 - Elizabeth Bartholomew's

39:29 - wife had worn at Azilum.

39:31 - So there's a real link

39:33 - with Azilum there.

39:34 - And of course the

39:35 - granddaughter knew the

39:37 - summer house that John

39:38 - LaPorte built the

39:39 - LaPorte House as her

39:40 - home and her summer

39:42 - home and she you know

39:43 - grew up with it.

39:44 - She was about 11 I think

39:45 - when that was completed.

39:46 - So this was part

39:48 - of her childhood.

39:50 - And there's a very whenever

39:52 - you write fiction you have

39:54 - to have a hook or a general

39:56 - thread that goes through.

39:58 - And so I can't tell you

40:00 - what that is but you

40:01 - read the book so you know

40:03 - but there's something

40:04 - connected with the doll

40:05 - and connected with

40:07 - Bartholomew that carries

40:08 - through the whole book.

40:10 - That's kind of the unifying

40:12 - factor but it also

40:13 - impacts Elizabeth and her

40:15 - life especially later on.

40:17 - When you started to write and

40:18 - you said OK I want to write

40:20 - a book about this house

40:21 - this town these characters.

40:22 - Did you have an

40:23 - idea about what the

40:24 - plot would be how

40:25 - it would turn out?

40:25 - Well yes because it was as it is

40:28 - much as it's fiction

40:29 - it is history.

40:30 - So I couldn't suddenly have

40:31 - them all have a wonderful

40:33 - time and have a thriving

40:34 - life in a big town.

40:35 - No. I knew what would

40:36 - have to happen

40:38 - and writing that

40:39 - part was very sad.

40:40 - Just like I knew Bartholomew

40:42 - was going to die.

40:43 - And writing that was very sad

40:44 - and I had some people who've

40:46 - read the books say, "I was

40:48 - crying," and I said, "So was I."

40:50 - But I knew more or less

40:53 - where I wanted it to go.

40:57 - But mostly it's a family

40:58 - history it's a history

41:00 - of how Azilum was built

41:01 - why Azilum was built

41:03 - what happened to the

41:04 - people who lived there

41:05 - what were they like what

41:07 - was life there like?

41:08 - And then what happened

41:10 - after the colony disbanded

41:12 - if you will and things

41:14 - sort of fell apart.

41:15 - What happened to the few

41:17 - people who were still

41:19 - there and how did

41:20 - that legacy continue?

41:22 - And so I think I've

41:23 - tied all that together

41:24 - quite neatly and

41:25 - fairly accurately.

41:27 - You said that there's

41:28 - not a lot of

41:28 - records from here,

41:29 - diaries or letters.

41:30 - Not first source, not

41:32 - primary sources.

41:33 - How do you take those scraps of

41:35 - information that

41:36 - you have and and

41:37 - create characters that have

41:39 - personalities that are distinct?

41:41 - Take Bartholemew for example.

41:42 - I've read a couple of primary

41:45 - sources that indicated they

41:47 - referred to him as having a

41:49 - wonderful sense of humor.

41:50 - There was also a

41:52 - primary source that

41:53 - referred to him as being

41:55 - sort of a wise guy

41:56 - kind of again when you

41:58 - are reading anything

42:00 - you have to consider

42:01 - the source because

42:03 - so it's filtered through

42:04 - whoever's writing

42:06 - that and whoever is

42:07 - saying that there

42:08 - was a third primary

42:10 - source that talked

42:11 - about when Bartholomew

42:13 - met Elizabeth.

42:14 - He fell instantly

42:15 - in love with her.

42:16 - She was quite a bit younger

42:19 - than he was but he just pursued

42:21 - her until she got she was old

42:24 - enough and she married him.

42:26 - So I kind of let that

42:28 - boil for a while

42:29 - in my head and I

42:30 - thought well you

42:32 - know he was a very

42:33 - assertive clever

42:34 - man and sometimes

42:35 - that angers other

42:37 - people who are not

42:38 - as assertive or

42:39 - clever you know they

42:41 - don't like people

42:42 - so I can see why he

42:44 - would be called a

42:45 - wise guy by somebody

42:46 - who's a dolt.

42:47 - He was very funny he

42:49 - was self-deprecating

42:50 - as and he had a great

42:52 - sense of humor.

42:53 - From that I extrapolated that

42:55 - he was a very positive person.

42:58 - And as far as falling in love

42:59 - with Elizabeth oh my goodness.

43:00 - Who wouldn't want

43:01 - a romantic hero?

43:02 - So I just sort of put that all

43:04 - together and I added

43:05 - in qualities from

43:06 - people I know and

43:07 - people I love and

43:09 - things about them that I admire.

43:11 - And I made somebody who

43:13 - I think is real but

43:15 - who also is really a

43:17 - very likeable person.

43:19 - And then Elizabeth

43:20 - there's two Elizabeths.

43:21 - Yes.

43:22 - Naming their kids

43:23 - after themselves

43:24 - that was very annoying.

43:25 - So the older Elizabeth

43:26 - was the one you

43:27 - thought was going to

43:27 - be the main character?

43:28 - No the younger. The

43:30 - older Elizabeth

43:31 - married Bart Bartholomew sorry.

43:33 - And she was an interesting

43:35 - character and

43:36 - her whole family story

43:38 - is very interesting

43:39 - and that's great

43:41 - but that was less

43:42 - interesting to me

43:43 - than her daughter.

43:45 - Then her that her son John's

43:47 - daughter who they also named

43:50 - Elizabeth who to whom I refer

43:53 - as Lizette in the book.

43:55 - Is anybody born in Azilum?

43:57 - Yeah John was. John

43:58 - a lot of kids were.

43:59 - John who later

43:59 - became congressman?

44:00 - John Laporte, right.

44:01 - Bartholomew's son.

44:02 - He was born in the Grand

44:03 - Maison because they built the

44:05 - Grand Maison for the queen but

44:06 - obviously they weren't going to

44:08 - leave this big beautiful house

44:10 - empty so Omer Talon lived there

44:11 - and so did Bartholomew Laporte.

44:13 - And then when they learned

44:14 - the queen had been beheaded

44:16 - they continue to live there

44:17 - and then when Omer Talon's

44:19 - wife got sick and he went back

44:21 - to Belgium, Laporte lived

44:22 - there with Elizabeth and

44:23 - John LaPorte was born there.

44:25 - You also write murder mysteries?

44:27 - I do.

44:28 - What does it take to write

44:29 - a good murder mystery?

44:29 - Well an evil mind.

44:34 - I worked for a local

44:35 - newspaper and I've written

44:37 - for the Rocket Courier

44:39 - for more years than I

44:41 - want to say 20 I'll be

44:42 - living where I live for

44:44 - 28 years and I worked

44:46 - for them for about 25.

44:48 - In that time, I have

44:50 - covered several

44:51 - murders or mysteries

44:53 - or both in the area.

44:56 - Some out of the area

44:57 - also have migrated in

44:58 - because you know but

45:00 - and they they just

45:01 - fascinated me and

45:02 - that was the one that

45:04 - got me started sitting

45:05 - in a preliminary

45:07 - hearing as part of

45:08 - what I was doing

45:09 - reporting on this

45:10 - hearing and thinking

45:12 - listening to someone

45:13 - give testimony and

45:14 - thinking this would

45:16 - make an amazing book.

45:17 - And there's a little

45:18 - voice in here whispered.

45:19 - So why don't you write it.

45:21 - And I thought oh no.

45:23 - But I started that was

45:25 - back in 2005 and I

45:27 - started writing then and

45:29 - haven't stopped yet.

45:31 - How do you do that where you can

45:33 - make a plot

45:34 - consistent throughout

45:36 - that doesn't have

45:37 - any hokey parts

45:39 - or you gradually build it?

45:41 - I take, it's like popcorn.

45:43 - I take the kernel and

45:44 - then I pop it for

45:45 - instance all of my

45:46 - murder mysteries

45:47 - are set in western

45:49 - Massachusetts so

45:50 - and all the names are different.

45:52 - So somebody reading it

45:53 - may or may not realize

45:54 - who they're reading about

45:56 - a lot of local people

45:57 - will read a murder mystery

45:58 - I've written and say

46:00 - you know that reminded

46:01 - me of The Da da da da.

46:02 - Yeah right.

46:03 - And the other thing

46:05 - I take other things

46:07 - that have happened

46:09 - burglaries robberies.

46:11 - There was a case near me several

46:13 - years ago where in a nursing

46:15 - home they were

46:16 - giving the patients

46:18 - liquor to keep them quiet.

46:20 - That kind of stuff.

46:21 - And that because

46:21 - it's just like life

46:22 - is like a Bruegel

46:23 - painting you know

46:24 - everything doesn't

46:25 - just there's not a

46:25 - murder happens and

46:26 - nothing else happens.

46:27 - Fifty million other

46:28 - things are happening.

46:29 - And my main character

46:30 - is a journalist.

46:31 - Huh. Big surprise.

46:33 - And she has a very out of

46:34 - the box way of thinking

46:36 - so she helps the police

46:38 - and the county detective

46:39 - solve the mysteries by

46:41 - thinking that way as opposed

46:43 - to very linearly which is

46:45 - the way law enforcement

46:46 - tends to think. They're

46:48 - very good but sometimes

46:49 - it's who you know and

46:51 - like me my character and

46:53 - in the murder mysteries

46:54 - knows a lot of different

46:56 - people from a lot of

46:57 - different social strata.

46:59 - And she can kind

47:00 - of put two and two

47:01 - together and come

47:02 - up with a solution.

47:03 - Sometimes she doesn't

47:04 - always have the solution.

47:05 - How complicated do you make it?

47:07 - Because some murder mysteries

47:08 - are pretty comprehensively--

47:10 - No they're pretty complicated.

47:12 - Some are pretty complicated.

47:13 - It depends on the mystery.

47:16 - But I don't like simple things.

47:17 - I don't I don't

47:18 - like it when my my

47:19 - beta readers say

47:20 - well I knew who it

47:21 - was in the beginning

47:22 - and say Ha I

47:23 - failed you know I

47:24 - don't like that.

47:25 - I like them to keep guessing and

47:27 - sometimes I lead

47:29 - them down the merry

47:31 - path and they think

47:32 - like my second

47:33 - most recent one,

47:35 - Apple of my Eye.

47:36 - And until the very

47:37 - end you're pretty

47:38 - sure you know who did

47:39 - it and you think

47:40 - you think you've

47:40 - got it you think

47:41 - you've got it you

47:42 - think you got it?

47:43 - And the very last

47:44 - the epilogue it's

47:45 - like oh no it

47:46 - wasn't that person.

47:47 - Or maybe it was.

47:50 - I try to make it I try to put a

47:52 - twist in and some of these are

47:54 - unsolved some of

47:55 - these are just we

47:56 - don't know what really happened.

47:58 - Do you ever find

47:59 - yourself going in

48:01 - one direction and getting stuck?

48:03 - Not getting stuck but

48:04 - not liking it and

48:05 - saying this is stupid

48:06 - it won't work.

48:07 - And so I go and

48:07 - sometimes I start

48:08 - a book because I just really

48:10 - need to write the

48:11 - book and I have

48:11 - no idea who the murderer is.

48:13 - And then I find out along with

48:15 - everybody else as I do the

48:16 - book sometimes I change who the

48:18 - murderer is half way through.

48:20 - Do you write fast or slow?

48:22 - I think I write pretty

48:23 - fast I usually do three

48:24 - or four books a year so

48:25 - I guess that's fast.

48:26 - Now this is a long book The

48:28 - LaPorte Inheritance is

48:29 - 400 pages and that took

48:31 - about six months to write.

48:32 - I type fast.

48:33 - I thank my mother for that

48:35 - she made me learn how to

48:37 - type when I was 13 so I type

48:38 - about 90 words a minute.

48:40 - How much of this did you

48:44 - have researched before

48:46 - you started writing it?

48:49 - I think I researched

48:50 - for about two months

48:52 - which sounds like

48:53 - nothing but I while we

48:54 - were talking two or

48:55 - three hours a day maybe

48:57 - more for two months

48:58 - and then as I was

48:59 - writing The LaPorte

49:00 - Inheritance usually when

49:02 - I write even when I

49:03 - write murder mysteries

49:04 - which are totally

49:05 - fiction except for the

49:07 - kernel of truth that

49:08 - I'm working from.

49:09 - I heavily research because even

49:11 - though I'm a murder mystery

49:13 - author I don't know a lot of

49:14 - things especially about one.

49:16 - One of the books the more

49:18 - recent book is has to

49:19 - do with Egyptian and

49:20 - embalming practices, well

49:22 - I don't know too much about

49:24 - that so I had to research that

49:25 - anyway for other historical

49:26 - fiction and for

49:27 - murder mysteries.

49:28 - Normally I'd spend like

49:29 - one hour researching

49:31 - and two hours writing

49:32 - that's about it.

49:33 - This was the other way. Even as

49:35 - I was writing it even having

49:37 - done the preliminary research

49:40 - and thinking OK I've got

49:41 - enough to start I would write

49:44 - and I would research about two

49:46 - hours for every hour of writing

49:48 - and it got it took a long

49:50 - time but I could not do it

49:52 - otherwise because if I wanted

49:54 - for instance Bartholomew and

49:56 - Omer Talon to come up from

49:58 - Philadelphia to Azilum I had to

50:01 - figure out how they were going

50:03 - to do that I had to figure out

50:05 - how fast the horse would go.

50:07 - I had to figure out

50:09 - where they would stay.

50:10 - I had to look at the

50:11 - route I had to find,

50:13 - believe it or not, a

50:14 - map of Philadelphia in

50:16 - 1793 which exists and

50:17 - a thing about the

50:18 - history of the roads

50:20 - that they would take.

50:21 - Well was that road there.

50:23 - No it wasn't.

50:23 - Oops where would they have gone?

50:25 - So there was a lot of research.

50:27 - Someone would watch you while

50:29 - you're writing what

50:30 - would they see?

50:31 - A woman with a laptop on

50:33 - her lap on her back porch

50:36 - facing into the West

50:37 - where there's a meadow.

50:40 - And my cat would be there.

50:41 - He's very intrigued by my porch.

50:45 - It's screened.

50:46 - And I'd be talking

50:48 - to myself probably

50:49 - as I write because and reading

50:52 - some of this stuff as I write

50:54 - to make sure it flows properly.

50:57 - With this book in

50:58 - particular once you were

51:00 - done the first draft of

51:01 - it and you went back.

51:02 - How different is the final

51:03 - product from the first draft?

51:05 - Not too bad surprisingly so.

51:08 - Not too bad at all.

51:10 - There were a couple of things

51:12 - that I found out literally

51:13 - weeks before I was ready to go

51:15 - with the final that were like

51:17 - oh I have to change

51:18 - that so I had

51:19 - to go back into the manuscript

51:20 - and find wherever I mentioned

51:22 - whatever and change it.

51:23 - So because if you find

51:25 - historical documentation of

51:28 - something there's a house

51:30 - that I referred to in the

51:33 - first draft as a house

51:35 - where the young man who

51:37 - eventually marries Lizette the

51:40 - girl who got the doll OK.

51:42 - When she grows up.

51:44 - I had located that house

51:46 - because I thought

51:47 - that was where the

51:48 - family house was.

51:50 - So I thought oh I'll

51:51 - use that house.

51:52 - I found

51:53 - out that that was not

51:54 - their family house.

51:55 - That was the Welles's family.

51:57 - The Welles family didn't

51:59 - live there until later after

52:01 - that person would

52:02 - have been in my

52:03 - book the period I

52:04 - was writing about.

52:05 - It was somebody else

52:06 - who the Terry family I

52:08 - think who lived in that

52:09 - house I thought ha.

52:10 - So I had to go back and take

52:11 - out all those references and

52:13 - move his house to so and I

52:14 - didn't know where the house was.

52:16 - And at that point I was

52:17 - not going to try to

52:17 - research to find out

52:18 - where the house was.

52:19 - So I just created a

52:21 - house somewhere and I

52:22 - actually add a little

52:24 - something I made

52:25 - it up on a hill on a

52:27 - bluff so he could see

52:29 - Lizette because Azilum

52:30 - is a flat plane.

52:32 - And then there are

52:33 - hills behind it.

52:34 - So I placed the House that

52:35 - this young man was in.

52:37 - He was farming it

52:38 - and then he would

52:39 - turn it over to his brother.

52:40 - But I placed it on

52:41 - a on a hillside

52:42 - so he could actually

52:44 - look down over

52:45 - Azilum and he could

52:46 - see Lizette as

52:47 - she was riding because she would

52:49 - ride and he could see her going

52:51 - wherever she was

52:52 - going and usually

52:53 - she would come up that road that

52:55 - hill and head down to Wyalusing.

52:57 - So I thought well

52:58 - that'll work you know.

52:59 - Did any non-French people

53:01 - live there move there?

53:03 - Some of the.

53:04 - Oh.

53:06 - After a while.

53:08 - I don't believe they

53:09 - married into the family.

53:11 - There was a doctor

53:13 - Jabez Chamberlain.

53:15 - Chamberlain. Whose wife Irene

53:18 - was English and Irish.

53:20 - English and

53:21 - Scottish. And they lived there.

53:24 - But of course the

53:26 - husband was French.

53:27 - So not till later I don't think.

53:29 - And you are a direct descendant

53:31 - of Eleanor of Aquitaine,

53:33 - King Louis the 7th of

53:34 - France and Charlemagne.

53:35 - Yes.

53:36 - How'd you find that out?

53:38 - Genealogy. I blame my friend

53:39 - Jean in England because she

53:41 - was very into her genealogy

53:42 - and I go to visit her usually

53:44 - every year and one year I

53:45 - went over and she said,

53:47 - "Would you mind if we went

53:48 - to such and such graveyard?"

53:50 - Oh no I don't care.

53:51 - So we went and spent the

53:53 - most of the vacation

53:54 - tramping around gravesites

53:56 - finding her relatives.

53:57 - And she said Oh you really ought

53:59 - to look up yours so I got home.

54:01 - I was like yeah I

54:02 - suppose and we're

54:03 - going back more than 10 years.

54:06 - And yeah about 10 years

54:08 - and I went online.

54:10 - I went to Ancestry dot com

54:13 - and a few other sites

54:15 - and found some things

54:17 - and I knew some things.

54:19 - But I found records only as far

54:22 - back as about 16 something or 17

54:25 - something and I was one ancestor

54:29 - Alexis deBilly dit Courville.

54:32 - And I thought I have to

54:33 - find out who that is.

54:35 - And I posted a query

54:36 - on one of the,

54:37 - it wasn't ancestry

54:38 - it was the one of

54:39 - the other bulletin

54:40 - boards and I said

54:41 - does anybody know

54:42 - about this guy.

54:43 - As far back as I can go

54:44 - I know you know he had

54:45 - this child and this had

54:46 - this child this had

54:47 - this child and that was

54:49 - my father and I have

54:50 - that part but I need

54:51 - to go further back.

54:52 - And about a month

54:52 - later I heard from

54:53 - somebody and she said

54:54 - Well who did he marry?

54:55 - And I said Oh Alexis that I'm

54:56 - descended from

54:57 - married so-and-so.

54:58 - Ok well then I have your

54:59 - genealogy and she sent me

55:01 - this whole thing and I thought

55:02 - how did she get that?

55:03 - But because again because

55:05 - it's a royal lineage

55:07 - it was saved you know

55:08 - so I lucked out.

55:10 - We just have a

55:11 - little bit of time

55:12 - left but we should

55:13 - tell people if

55:13 - they want to read

55:14 - your murder mysteries

55:16 - they are not under your name.

55:17 - They are actually under my

55:18 - father's great

55:19 - grandmother's name.

55:19 - Why do you do that?

55:20 - Why not?

55:23 - I didn't want to write

55:24 - because I write under my

55:26 - Americanized name Debra

55:28 - Courville for the newspaper.

55:30 - I didn't want to write

55:31 - the murder mysteries

55:32 - under the same name

55:33 - for obvious reasons.

55:33 - I've gotta keep my head

55:35 - separate and I want my readers

55:36 - to be able to keep

55:37 - everything I write separate.

55:39 - And the author of the

55:40 - murder mysteries?

55:40 - The name you use for that is?

55:42 - Eugenie West which is like

55:44 - Eugenie with an I-E and west.

55:47 - And again if someone

55:49 - wants to visit a French

55:50 - Azilum where do they go

55:51 - and when do they go?

55:53 - Well we're open from the end

55:54 - of May through sometime

55:56 - in September it changes

55:57 - every year depending

55:59 - on what our schedule

56:00 - is and the events that

56:01 - we have planned and we

56:02 - do have a Web site.

56:04 - We're also on Facebook.

56:05 - So if you just look us up

56:06 - there you can find us.

56:07 - And the phone number is 5 7

56:11 - 0 2 6 5 3 3 7 6 I think.

56:15 - But that's on the Web site

56:16 - and also on Facebook.

56:18 - Working on another book?

56:20 - I've got a murder

56:21 - mystery cooking now.

56:22 - I started it in June but then

56:24 - stuff happened this summer

56:25 - so I haven't gotten back to

56:27 - it yet but I'm I'm getting

56:28 - there and that's actually about

56:30 - English Country Dance which

56:32 - is something I do and that

56:33 - should be out next spring.

56:35 - Under the name Eugenie West?

56:39 - Yes.

56:40 - Right.

56:41 - Well we are out of time.

56:42 - We've been speaking with

56:43 - Deborah deBilly dit Courville

56:45 - and she is the author of

56:46 - this book the LaPorte

56:48 - Inheritance an historical

56:50 - novel of French Azilum.

56:51 - Thank you very much.

56:52 - Thank you very much.