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00:20 - Good afternoon

00:20 - and welcome to speaks for Housing Forward.

00:23 - I am your host, Brittany Mellinger, and I serve as the fair housing training

00:27 - and Outreach coordinator at the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission.

00:31 - In this show, we explore all things

00:33 - housing with the experts, advocates, and community leaders.

00:37 - Working to expand access to housing.

00:40 - Today, we'll be discussing the city's enforcement

00:42 - efforts in the western region of Pennsylvania.

00:45 - It's my pleasure to welcome to the show my colleague, Doctor John Robinson.

00:50 - Doctor Dawn Robinson serves as the regional director for the Pittsburgh

00:54 - region.

00:55 - The Pittsburgh regional office serves 23 counties in the Commonwealth.

00:59 - Doctor Robinson's role is to manage the daily operations of the office, direct

01:03 - the investigative work of the staff, as well as to conduct

01:06 - outreach and training in the communities in which the office serves.

01:10 - Additionally, this role allows Doctor Robinson to continue her passion

01:14 - for equal employment opportunity in the workplace,

01:17 - specifically the fair treatment that employees rights are not being violated

01:21 - but are being respected.

01:24 - Prior to the role of

01:25 - Regional Director, Doctor Robinson devoted 20 plus years

01:28 - in the field of human resources, where she served in multiple management

01:32 - roles and led multiple HR functions such as equal opportunity,

01:36 - affirmative action, talent acquisition, and employee relations.

01:41 - Additionally, Doctor Robinson is a member of an array of committees,

01:44 - councils, and boards that advocate for social justice,

01:47 - equity, justice, and diversity, accessibility and inclusion.

01:52 - She holds a doctorate degree in Executive Leadership

01:54 - from the University of Charleston, a master of science

01:58 - degree in Professional Leadership from Cargill University, and a Bachelor

02:02 - of Arts degree in psychology from West Virginia University.

02:06 - Welcome, Director Robinson, and thank you for joining us.

02:10 - Hello, Brittany.

02:10 - Thank you for having me.

02:12 - I'm very happy to be here today. Yeah.

02:15 - So we learned a little bit about your story in your bio,

02:18 - but we all have a story on how we got to our work in our vocation.

02:22 - Can you share a little bit about your journey to your current work?

02:26 - Oh, yes. Absolutely.

02:27 - So my journey to the FDA Human Relations Commission really began

02:31 - in human resources, specifically in the areas of employment compliance,

02:37 - which basically means to ensure that companies and organizations

02:42 - are, familiar with the federal laws under, the U.S.

02:47 - Department of Labor, and also to ensure that HR compliance measures

02:52 - are aligned with those labor laws.

02:54 - And that work, pretty much shaped,

02:58 - my love for ensuring that an individual

03:01 - was being treated fairly and that,

03:05 - they were not being discriminated against regardless of their protected class.

03:11 - Great.

03:12 - So you're the regional director in our Pittsburgh regional office.

03:15 - Can you tell our viewers what area of the state that covers?

03:19 - Oh, absolutely.

03:20 - So I have been the regional director

03:21 - for the Pittsburgh Regional office for a little over a year.

03:24 - And, our office covers southwestern Pennsylvania,

03:29 - and that coverage is anywhere between

03:32 - 23 to 26 counties at any given time.

03:36 - And that goes both counties go as far as Erie,

03:40 - Erie County as far north as Greene County.

03:44 - Excuse me, as far south as Greene County.

03:46 - And from, I would say from east to west,

03:50 - it would be, Blair County to Beaver County.

03:54 - So we we cover a lot of the state.

03:56 - Yeah, that's a big portion of the state.

03:58 - Yeah. Yes, it is.

04:01 - So there may be some folks watching today that might not be familiar

04:05 - with the work at the mercy. Could you tell us a little bit

04:07 - about the day to day work in the regional office?

04:11 - I question, the day to day work.

04:14 - The regional office is is quite complex,

04:17 - and the efficiency initial role

04:21 - is to be the state civil right agency to ensure that everyone in Pennsylvania

04:27 - have the right to, to live, to be educated and to work,

04:33 - without being discriminated against.

04:35 - And, at any given time, the office could have anywhere

04:40 - from 22 to 23 people, in that office.

04:45 - And it's quite complex because the office is divided up into several teams.

04:51 - And one team is the intake team.

04:54 - And that intake team is led by an intake supervisor.

04:57 - And that team's role is to take in potential complaints

05:04 - and to determine if that complaint is indeed,

05:09 - a discriminating complaint, meaning that,

05:13 - that complaint or the harm the alleged harm that happened to

05:16 - the individual have been timely, which basically means within 180 days,

05:22 - that individual is a member of a protected class.

05:26 - That individual,

05:28 - believe that,

05:30 - their rights were violated and that those rights that were violated

05:35 - actually happened in the state of Pennsylvania.

05:40 - Some other teams.

05:41 - That's part of this big, complex, day to day operations

05:45 - is there's a compliance team, and there is a housing team.

05:48 - And basically these are investigators, and both teams are supervised

05:53 - by their respective, compliance or housing investigators.

05:58 - And these investigators basically, are neutral.

06:03 - Therefore they have a pretty much pragmatic process

06:06 - that they go through to ensure that the investigations are done properly.

06:12 - There are quality investigations and that,

06:16 - the investigations are moving toward where the evidence, directs.

06:22 - And doing so ended up at either a cause,

06:26 - a probable cause, or no probable cause.

06:29 - We also have, a legal team

06:32 - that's on site is very, very unique for a commission to have a legal team.

06:37 - And that legal team, provides us the,

06:41 - guidance or resources

06:44 - to assist with quality and effective investig ations.

06:48 - And we recently acquired what we called a civil rights

06:52 - outreach coordinator, which is, actually called crock.

06:56 - And that person is part of the Pittsburgh regional office.

07:00 - And that person really assists with the outreach for the Pittsburgh

07:04 - regional office.

07:05 - So the day to day operations of that is the regional director

07:09 - is managing all of those moving pieces to ensure that

07:14 - we are giving voice to folks and, the Commonwealth,

07:18 - specifically southwestern PA, that feel that

07:21 - they have been discriminated against due to to protect the clients.

07:25 - Just great work. I enjoy it.

07:27 - Yeah, yeah, I can tell.

07:28 - And you're right, it's

07:29 - a lot of moving parts and a lot of teams that are working together to accomplish

07:33 - the work at the Mercy.

07:36 - So you

07:36 - mentioned, community outreach and the,

07:39 - the civil rights outreach coordinator, where my community members,

07:43 - see, see staff, sharing information in the community.

07:48 - Oh, great. Great question.

07:50 - And this, addition, this crock, addition to the HRC

07:54 - Pittsburgh families is so help, so helpful to us

07:57 - because we're pretty much anywhere where, folks want us to attend.

08:02 - But you would definitely see us, in community events such,

08:06 - as Juneteenth, community events that happen annually.

08:10 - The pride events, we typically go to,

08:15 - no hate in our state programs, which is part of the larger commission,

08:20 - the beloved community tours that stop, stop in, in every county of,

08:26 - Pennsylvania, which is a large portion is in the, southwestern, regions.

08:31 - And, our counties, but we also attend annual disability summits.

08:38 - So I ask people if you would like the,

08:41 - the Pittsburgh regional office to attend any community events.

08:44 - Just reach out to the regional office.

08:47 - Request our attendance, and, we will be there.

08:51 - That's phenomenal.

08:53 - So I want to focus in on on, on housing concerns directly.

08:58 - Could you share a little bit about some issues that you're seeing,

09:01 - in housing complaints in your region?

09:04 - Yes. So, we in the Pittsburgh regional office,

09:08 - most of the housing complaints that we do receive

09:12 - has to do with accommodations or modifications due to a disability,

09:18 - modification, meaning modifying something about the facility,

09:23 - to allow a renter to be able

09:25 - to enjoy their, their housing or a

09:30 - an accommodation with, and around, like a employee.

09:34 - Excuse me?

09:35 - What we call them emotional support animals.

09:38 - You know, that seems to be, the two main,

09:43 - areas, for us when it comes

09:46 - to, housing investigations

09:49 - and typically is around, the renter or the landlord

09:54 - not having a really solid understanding that there is a process that's in place.

10:01 - That is highly recommended

10:03 - that when a renter,

10:07 - is in need of a modification or, or an accommodation,

10:12 - that renter needs to clearly, communicate that to the landlord.

10:16 - And this is an obvious type of need.

10:19 - A lot of the, landlords or a believe that,

10:23 - you know, understanding that the process in place or,

10:27 - they don't follow the process to,

10:30 - to a level where the

10:34 - a decision or an accommodation is deemed

10:38 - reasonable, the automatically assume that is an hardship for them.

10:42 - So a lot of times it's about educating

10:44 - both parties in those type of, housing cases.

10:48 - Yeah, absolutely.

10:51 - So your region covers a pretty wide range of communities,

10:54 - anywhere from larger cities like Pittsburgh

10:56 - and Erie to a lot of smaller, more rural communities.

11:00 - What can you tell us about how housing needs and, discrimination

11:03 - in housing might look different from community to community?

11:08 - That's a great question.

11:10 - And, I,

11:12 - I thought about that question,

11:14 - quite deeply and fast.

11:17 - Urban communities, research has shown and, and through some of the cases

11:23 - that come through at the office that is more about affordable housing.

11:28 - And in urban communities

11:31 - when we move to, rural or the suburbs.

11:37 - Another concern is more about,

11:42 - where

11:43 - how many people are kind of living in one went home,

11:47 - you know, at times and meaning that we see,

11:51 - overcrowding can be, a concern,

11:54 - especially more and more in the suburbs, which is kind of right outside of the city

11:59 - where some of the urban families may have,

12:03 - transitioned to, that area.

12:06 - But, maybe, perhaps the cost of, the housing is a little bit more.

12:11 - So we are seeing folks that are kind of being overcrowded,

12:15 - and more than one adult,

12:18 - one person per bedroom, excluding you know, a couple.

12:22 - And so then that's when we begin to see where the,

12:26 - discrimination around the millennial status.

12:30 - Comes into place, where, folks believe that,

12:34 - they're unfairly being discriminated against,

12:37 - having children or having too many, in a household

12:42 - or even where, there are renting and there are school zones,

12:47 - guidance is that, is in place to,

12:51 - who's living, in that rental unit,

12:54 - which I, you know, that's something that was very new to me that I never

12:58 - experienced and knew that existed and was educational for me as well.

13:03 - Yeah.

13:03 - That connection between those occupancy standards and,

13:07 - and, and families with children and, it definitely

13:12 - can can impact housing opportunities for folks.

13:16 - And that kind of leads me into our next question.

13:17 - So I know you're a long term resident of the city of Pittsburgh.

13:20 - You were talking a little bit about changing demographics in the region.

13:25 - Can you talk a little bit about, how that's impacted housing opportunities?

13:29 - In the area?

13:31 - Yes, absolutely.

13:32 - So, the changing demographics, for me, and I've been living

13:36 - in the city of Pittsburgh for several, several years, few decades, actually.

13:42 - And, I've always,

13:44 - more often than not worked in the city,

13:47 - of Pittsburgh.

13:48 - And what was very notable was, in 2020, of course,

13:52 - there was the pandemic, you know, of Covid 19, and folks

13:56 - were working remotely pretty much, at the time

14:00 - when we slowly transition back to, working in the office,

14:04 - even at a hybrid, model, the initial return,

14:11 - was quite noticeable that

14:13 - we had a increase in homelessness, unhoused,

14:18 - typically around the veterans with a disability,

14:21 - specifically a mental health disability that basically they

14:27 - when we left downtown,

14:30 - folks,

14:31 - that were looking, you know, created tents

14:34 - and camps and in those places and it really put a long time

14:40 - issue, honestly, in a much needed light.

14:44 - Because, you know, another human being was right there

14:47 - when you were walking down the sidewalk, which was probably five, 3 or 4 years ago,

14:54 - you know, no one was living on that sidewalk.

14:58 - And then when you returned to the office, there was someone literally living,

15:03 - in the doorway of buildings.

15:06 - And so that brought on a lot of conversations,

15:10 - needed conversation, discussions ongoing to this day

15:14 - on how we, of course, treat people,

15:17 - with dignity and respect,

15:19 - ensuring that we are giving folks what is needed.

15:24 - To assist them

15:26 - and finding finding a good quality housing for them.

15:30 - Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent point.

15:32 - That there were a lot of changes with Covid that really exposed

15:36 - a lot of underlying things that have been happening for a long time.

15:39 - We also saw that with, with,

15:43 - eviction rates and things like that.

15:46 - Yes. And, and a lot of good organizations.

15:50 - Either stepped up or created, we had a, a,

15:55 - a meeting in Pittsburgh and the Pittsburgh regional office, one of our, public,

16:00 - commission meetings that would allow that, allow,

16:03 - the public to come in and speak to, various concerns.

16:06 - And, we specifically focused

16:10 - on veterans, being,

16:13 - homeless or unhoused and had,

16:16 - three good organizations, soldier on,

16:20 - organization called Amen.

16:22 - That focuses on, what's more specifically,

16:26 - African American men and, and input in the community.

16:31 - But they have a veterans initiative as well.

16:34 - Those two organizations have actually come together, along with a,

16:39 - a landlord,

16:41 - a company called X, properties that is assisting,

16:45 - veterans that in need of housing, giving them temporary

16:50 - housing, in addition to giving them or teaching them,

16:55 - skills on how to,

16:57 - find a job, how to, life skills

17:01 - and also how to, retain employee.

17:05 - And so it was something very, positive

17:08 - and powerful that came from that, that, public commission meeting.

17:12 - Yeah. That's great.

17:13 - And it's great to hear that

17:14 - their organizations that are doing this really important work.

17:17 - Yeah.

17:18 - So I know you come to Peter C with really extensive experience

17:21 - in employment in HR and higher education, but you're a little bit

17:25 - newer to some of the housing work.

17:27 - Is there anything that surprised you about the housing cases

17:30 - that Peter C handles?

17:35 - Well, I'm very surprised.

17:36 - That's a great question, Brittany.

17:37 - I was very surprised to learn,

17:41 - that landlords did not

17:44 - understand that under the Ada,

17:48 - you needed to accommodate their tenants, their,

17:53 - their renters and, you know, I touched base on this,

17:58 - a little bit earlier.

17:59 - How, landlords

18:03 - did not aware of the interactive process.

18:07 - It's it's a process that is not required, but is very much encouraged

18:11 - because there's basically a conversation between

18:15 - two individuals, in order

18:18 - to find what best accommodation is needed from that individual

18:23 - so they can, can live in, in their, their unit.

18:27 - And I was this very surprised that so many landlords either

18:33 - never heard of it.

18:35 - They thought they were doing

18:36 - the interactive process and they were not.

18:40 - And how so many landlords,

18:43 - require to be educated on that process

18:47 - that is really beneficial for them. I

18:50 - very simple process and would

18:52 - save them so much time and dollars.

18:56 - At the end.

18:57 - Yeah.

18:58 - I'm glad you highlighted that since that's something that I see as well.

19:02 - Even if a housing provider can't accommodate a specific request,

19:06 - there's often other things

19:07 - that can be considered in order to to make that housing livable, and usable

19:11 - for, for that individual to enable them to live out in the community.

19:15 - Absolutely.

19:16 - And and there's the flip side of that as well, is that it's also educating,

19:21 - the renter or the tenants because,

19:25 - as you as you alluded to, that the initial request

19:28 - for a modification in an accommodation,

19:31 - it may not be approved because the key word

19:34 - is reasonable modification and reasonable, accommodation.

19:39 - And again, the first initial request may not be reasonable for whatever reason.

19:45 - And a lot of times you see the the process

19:48 - just stalls right there.

19:51 - The landlord's like, that's not reasonable.

19:54 - I'm not going to do this without any supporting evidence of reason.

19:59 - Why is that?

20:01 - Is that is a hardship and not knowing that there's another step there.

20:06 - You know, there is another step of finding something that is,

20:10 - an alternative because it's about meeting the

20:14 - need of that, that tenant

20:18 - or that renter,

20:19 - and that's when other information is required.

20:24 - You know, the, the treating health care provider.

20:28 - And that's where our investigators start getting gathering more information,

20:32 - getting approval from, the,

20:35 - complaints of authorization and to sometimes reach out to that,

20:40 - to the health care provider to get that information, that we need.

20:45 - So, yeah, if you can just take that extra step, that that extra step.

20:50 - Yeah.

20:50 - To get to that win win situation where the landlord has a stable tenant

20:55 - and then the tenant has stable housing, which, which can work for everyone

20:59 - and especially around modifications,

21:03 - and often a modification at times

21:06 - it could be something like a ramp or a railing.

21:10 - And I've always, in prior

21:14 - I, jobs when I would present

21:17 - on the interactive process that

21:21 - is going to be helpful for everyone.

21:23 - You know, if there's a ramp that needed to be put in place

21:26 - because it was a request for someone that needed that paper,

21:31 - mobile accessibility

21:34 - at any given time, I guarantee that there is going to be folks

21:38 - without needing a physical, accommodation is going to be using that ramp.

21:42 - Yeah. Are you think that really? Yeah.

21:45 - So that's that's where it gets into

21:47 - where people just need to have a, a good conversation and understanding.

21:51 - This is a bigger picture than someone with a disability looking for a handout.

21:57 - That's not what it's about.

21:59 - Yeah.

22:00 - Yeah that's an excellent point.

22:02 - So I know prior to joining Peter Sears, Regional director,

22:05 - you were actually a member of the Penn Hills Advisory Council to the Peter.

22:10 - See, could you share a little bit about the work of advisory councils

22:14 - and how they help Peter, see, do, do outreach in the community?

22:19 - Sure. Absolutely.

22:21 - The advisory council is extremely important for any regional office because

22:27 - yet we as for Pittsburgh, we have anywhere from 23

22:30 - to 26 counties, in our region.

22:34 - And we can't be everywhere.

22:38 - You know, we need someone with our with, you know, the pulse on the different,

22:43 - counties and communities when they're not in those counties.

22:45 - So the advisory council,

22:49 - is the bridge between the, community member

22:53 - and the Pittsburgh, regional office.

22:56 - So the council lets us know if there are,

23:00 - concerns from community members.

23:02 - They are also, educating community members on, you know,

23:06 - how to file, complaint.

23:09 - These, advisory councils

23:11 - also reach out to us to say, hey, these events are going on.

23:15 - Will you work in event with us?

23:18 - There's several events.

23:20 - A council member can go to events a and can someone else go to event B?

23:25 - So we're constantly working together, to serve,

23:30 - you know, all of those counties and, southwestern PA

23:34 - and I believe we have about, what, three, three advisory councils,

23:39 - Penn Hills Advisory Council, Beaver, Ohio.

23:42 - Indiana.

23:43 - And we're recruiting for, I think, Allegheny County and Cambria County,

23:48 - if I'm correct.

23:49 - Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

23:51 - And there's even further ones for for our viewers,

23:53 - even eastern in the eastern part or the central part of Pennsylvania.

23:57 - There's also, additional councils, in other areas as well.

24:01 - But those are the ones in the western part of the region.

24:04 - And I enjoyed my time on the Penn Hills Advisory Council as well.

24:08 - Two years, was the first one,

24:11 - in south southwest PA, under the Pittsburgh regional office and,

24:17 - they're still doing great, great work of there.

24:20 - So, yeah, absolutely.

24:23 - So is there anything that you want our viewers to know

24:26 - about the process of filing a complaint?

24:30 - If you feel like that you have been discriminated against,

24:34 - if you feel that your rights have been violated,

24:38 - call, reach out to us, email us, call us.

24:43 - We take walk ins as well.

24:46 - And our clerk and our intake investigators will, you know,

24:51 - sit down with you, ask you a couple questions,

24:55 - to find out, you know, view meeting our jurisdiction

24:58 - again, as I mentioned earlier, is a timely that the alleged harm happened

25:01 - within 180 days, that it happened in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

25:06 - You know, are you part of a protected class?

25:08 - And why do you feel you were discriminated against

25:11 - or treated unfairly because of that protected class?

25:15 - So I know people often hear, you know,

25:19 - see something, say something of the same application.

25:23 - If you feel something happen, then say something

25:27 - by reaching out to us to file a potential claim.

25:31 - Yeah, absolutely.

25:33 - So we're nearing the end of our time together this afternoon.

25:36 - But I know, I know, it goes it goes really quick.

25:40 - But I wanted to ask you, I know this must be incredibly difficult work.

25:44 - Day in and day out. Could you share with our viewers

25:47 - what keeps you going in the face of challenges?

25:49 - Oh. Great question.

25:52 - It is difficult work, and

25:54 - at times you feel like you have,

25:57 - the entire, you know, Commonwealth

25:59 - on, on your shoulders because you, you hear people, you know,

26:04 - these are human beings that reach out and not just case numbers.

26:08 - Okay.

26:09 - They reach out and they truly feel that they have been,

26:12 - you know, mistreated and treated unfairly.

26:16 - And a lot of times they just don't know what to do.

26:18 - And they don't have, they feel that they don't have a voice.

26:23 - Yeah.

26:24 - And, you know, the regional office and definitely

26:27 - the investigators, the investigators, supervisors,

26:33 - the legal team, myself,

26:36 - we keep pushing because

26:38 - we're doing good work, and it's work that's needed.

26:42 - It's work that we are passionate about.

26:45 - And yes, we do, we do we we hit investigated

26:49 - investigation fatigue as well.

26:52 - But we we are a good team.

26:54 - And we know that the work, matters.

26:57 - And we know that there's someone waiting that's usually

27:01 - feeling alone, feeling very isolated,

27:05 - waiting on us to do a good investigation, which we will do,

27:10 - and to get them to, a finding, you know, as quickly as we possibly can.

27:16 - Yeah.

27:17 - Well, thank you, Director Robinson,

27:19 - for all of the important work that you and your team are doing.

27:21 - And thank you also for taking the time

27:23 - out of your busy schedule to join us here this afternoon.

27:26 - Oh, thank you so much, Brittany.

27:28 - It was a pleasure, talking with you.

27:31 - Pleasure sharing.

27:33 - You know, the knowledge that I have, and I again, just feel

27:37 - I need to reiterate that if anyone you know that hears this,

27:41 - if you feel like you've been discriminated against,

27:42 - you know, reach out to the king, and, we will be your voice for you.

27:48 - But again, thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

27:51 - I would also like to thank our viewers for spending their afternoon

27:54 - learning with us.

27:55 - If you believe that you've experienced housing discrimination

27:58 - or would like to learn more about the housing protections in Pennsylvania,

28:01 - give us a call at Fair Housing Line,

28:04 - which is (855) 866-5718.

28:08 - You can also find us at our website, which is on the screen.

28:13 - PA gov

28:15 - n slash agencies slash HRC.

28:19 - You can also keep up with our work on Facebook, Instagram X, YouTube

28:23 - and LinkedIn.

28:25 - And remember, our communities are stronger when everyone has a place to call home.

28:29 - We'll see you next time.

28:32 - This program has been paid

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