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00:21 - Good afternoon

00:21 - and welcome to PHRC Speaks Fair Housing Forward.

00:24 - I am your host, Brittany Melling and I serve as the Fair Housing

00:28 - and Outreach coordinator at the Pennsylvania Human Relations Com

00:32 - In this show, we explore all thi housing with the experts, advoca

00:36 - and community leaders who are wo to expand access to housing.

00:41 - Today, we'll be exploring connec between housing and education.

00:45 - It's my pleasure to welcome to t my colleague, Desiree Chang.

00:49 - Desiree Chang serves as the director of education

00:51 - and outreach for the Pennsylvani Human Relations Commission.

00:55 - She has been with the agency for five years.

00:58 - Prior to becoming the director of education and outreach,

01:00 - she worked as a civil rights med with the Mediation division.

01:04 - During her tenure at the HRC, Chang has received the 2020 Exec

01:08 - Director of Excellence Award and

01:11 - Trustees Social Justice Team Awa

01:14 - She is a graduate of the Martin Luther King Jr.

01:16 - Leadership Institute in 2021 and has been recognized

01:20 - for her participation

01:21 - on several committees and commun social justice collaborative eff

01:26 - She was recently awarded the Cit and State Pay Above and Beyond a

01:31 - Cheng's educational acquisitions an Associate of Arts in Criminal

01:36 - Summa cum laude obtained from La as well as a Bachelor of Science

01:41 - in Psychology and Master of Lega from Drexel University.

01:45 - Both magna cum laude.

01:47 - She is a member, a member of sev academic honor societies.

01:51 - Prior to the PHRC, she worked as

01:53 - probation and parole officer with a specialized caseload

01:56 - of individuals with developmenta and mental health disabilities.

02:00 - In addition, she has a backgroun in substance abuse counseling.

02:04 - She has served as a facilitator for trauma informed responses

02:07 - and has been a certified trainer

02:09 - in motivational interviewing and moral recognition therapy.

02:12 - She enjoys public speaking and volunteering at women's shel

02:16 - Much of Chang's professional career has been in

02:19 - that include assistance for or a of special interest groups.

02:23 - Her passions are married at the with the ability to educate Penn

02:28 - and actively work towards eradicating discrimination

02:32 - both inside and outside of a com

02:35 - Welcome to PHRC Director Chang.

02:37 - We're so happy to have you.

02:38 - Thank you so much for having me.

02:40 - So we all have a story on how we got to our current work and v

02:43 - Could you share a little bit abo your journey towards your curren

02:46 - Well, I feel like you said most

02:49 - is the bio, but the bio does out

02:52 - just how I always find myself in advocacy roles.

02:56 - I grew up with a mother that worked in social work,

03:00 - and so I grew up going to Specia and being around adults

03:05 - with developmental disabilities and just being in that community

03:11 - and seeing advocacy modeled by m

03:15 - I just understood, I think, at a very young age,

03:18 - the importance of being able to use your voice

03:22 - or your ability to elevate the voices of others

03:25 - that may not have that opportunity or advantage.

03:28 - So I love doing the work here at

03:31 - and I loved all those the roles that I have.

03:34 - But just like the bio outlines,

03:38 - I think this

03:39 - is the best fit thus far because I'm able to elevate

03:42 - a lot of different voices, educate people, to feel empowere

03:45 - to advocate for themselves as well as other people.

03:48 - And I think for me that is

03:52 - that's just pivotal.

03:53 - And it's it's just a basic human

03:58 - like characteristic.

04:00 - Don't I don't know, it's almost simplified, but I think it is.

04:03 - So, yeah, Yeah.

04:06 - That's incredible to have that kind of a role mode

04:08 - and to be able to pursue that in your professional career

04:11 - Could you tell us a little bit

04:12 - about your work as director of e and outreach at Jersey Shore?

04:16 - So I think at the HRC, we are sm but mighty is what I say.

04:22 - And so there is a lot of overlap in disciplines and a lot of coll

04:27 - But for the most part my role would be two primary fun

04:31 - The one would be to follow the t and themes in K-through-12

04:36 - and higher education.

04:37 - So things that we're seeing happ

04:40 - high profile incidents

04:42 - of discrimination and, you know, partnering with

04:46 - with these institutes and to educate not only the

04:50 - the faculty and staff, but also the learners in their rights.

04:55 - So that's one role.

04:56 - And then similarly, the other role would be to curat

04:59 - and facilitate training programs not just in the educational spac

05:03 - but also for organizations that are requesting

05:07 - any types of trainings that would fall under the umbrel

05:11 - or even just be related to anti-discrimination.

05:15 - So in the Fair Housing commercial Property Divi

05:18 - we talk a lot about why housing so much.

05:20 - It impacts so many aspects of ou from the quality of the air

05:23 - that we breathe to the water we to our options for transportatio

05:27 - and access to medical services, to jobs that pay a living wage.

05:31 - But one of the really key aspect

05:33 - is our access to educational opp for families with children.

05:37 - Could you talk a little bit about what that looks like for

05:40 - for families in Pennsylvania?

05:41 - Yeah, absolutely.

05:42 - So Pennsylvania are not Pennsylv

05:44 - but housing and education have a direct link to one anothe

05:49 - We we know that historical const dictate

05:52 - what type of educational opportu are afforded.

05:55 - Even today.

05:56 - And so we have a variety or a pl

06:02 - I guess we'll say, of different demographics here in Pennsylvani

06:05 - So we have rural communities, we have pockets of metropolitan

06:10 - metropolitan areas, suburban are

06:13 - And so when we're thinking about and what the demographic of a le

06:18 - looks like in Pennsylvania, it really does run the gamut.

06:22 - We have two HBCU's here housed in Pennsylvania and histo

06:27 - black colleges and universities, also known as

06:30 - But we also have the second larg

06:34 - city in the United States, which is Philadelphia, which als

06:38 - to be noted as one of the most impoverished cities in the Unite

06:42 - So, again, when we're thinking about learne

06:46 - in Pennsylvania, we have to cons all types of demographics

06:51 - from marginalized identities and populations,

06:54 - because we have all of those, like many states and communities

06:58 - do, but also looking at things from a socioeconomic status.

07:01 - Because we have rural, we have s we have city.

07:05 - Yeah, yeah.

07:06 - We we really have a little bit of everything here in Pennsylvan

07:10 - Our housing systems and our educational systems

07:13 - are all shaped by a lot of the d that have happened in the past.

07:16 - Could you share specifically about the practice of redlining

07:19 - and how that's had an impact on educational opportunities?

07:22 - Yeah.

07:24 - So redlining

07:26 - really has created

07:29 - a system of educational inequity

07:31 - And while we know that it's been since 1960,

07:35 - we still see the remnants of what redlining did back then.

07:40 - Today it still plays out in pres

07:42 - So things like economic disinves

07:46 - and segregation lead to the ineq educational outcomes.

07:51 - Back in the 4070s and sixties.

07:54 - But even today, when we think about funding

07:56 - and our funding formula, which just two years ago was det

08:00 - to have been unconstitutional because we found that there were

08:05 - in opportunity for learners based on that funding formula.

08:09 - So redlining created

08:14 - disparities in educational insti

08:16 - like from the structures to the

08:19 - So really everything that would impact a learner.

08:23 - So we saw dilapidated buildings,

08:26 - We saw resources that were limit or nonexistent

08:31 - back in the 1960s because of the redlining process

08:36 - where money was is where the resources then were.

08:40 - And so children that grew up in these communitie

08:42 - that were affluent, which also happened to be predom

08:46 - white areas, were afforded beautiful b

08:50 - you know, having the latest tech and whatever it was back then.

08:54 - But also we're seeing it even still today. So

08:59 - while we

09:00 - may feel like we're 60 years rem you know, having outlawed that r

09:05 - process, policies still have yet

09:10 - to be updated to reflect what ar looks like in 2025

09:15 - and the needs of the various populations in 20

09:20 - So we may not call it redlining,

09:23 - but we still understand

09:26 - that funding is dictated by

09:30 - areas and it's reflective of

09:35 - where communities that need it the most are not always receivin

09:39 - And so in turn, the learners wit those communities

09:42 - are not receiving equitable educ

09:45 - Yeah.

09:45 - So you've talked a lot about

09:48 - about disparities by geography as well as by socioeconomic stat

09:53 - Could you share a little bit abo link to children in protected cl

09:57 - which are children that have pro under our state laws?

10:00 - When we talk about

10:04 - marginalized identities,

10:05 - so are protected categories are the marginalized identities as w

10:11 - So the the groups of learners that are the most significantly

10:16 - and severely impacted are Africa and Latino students are also stu

10:21 - with disabilities are also stude from immigrant families.

10:25 - And those are just just a few.

10:28 - But when we're talking about marginalized identities an

10:33 - to recognize what those identiti translate to as it relates to ed

10:39 - we have to be willing to to see beyond just one type of l

10:44 - And we don't always do that.

10:46 - And our systems and and structur aren't always designed to do tha

10:50 - And I think that's one of the bi

10:52 - challenges with our educational today, is that

10:56 - demographics are changing in certain communities

10:59 - and the educational institutions are not following suit.

11:04 - And so these

11:05 - students are put at a disadvanta from the very beginning.

11:09 - And this is where we're seeing

11:13 - systems and

11:14 - or generations of poverty happen because from age five

11:20 - we have a huge disparity in what is being offered to one

11:25 - in one particular district, which would be, you know,

11:29 - if we're if we're

11:30 - going to compare and contrast, if we're looking at an affluent

11:33 - versus a district that is maybe socioeconomic status, there are

11:39 - gaps in resources that are avail all the way down to technology.

11:44 - So we have communities in in Pen right now.

11:49 - I had mentioned those three classification of students,

11:52 - but we have districts right now in Pennsylvania that 100%

11:56 - of their student population is f within the vulnerable population

12:00 - For the school to prison pipelin

12:02 - So that's a phenomenon where chi within with certain identities

12:07 - or particular characteristics are criminalized more so

12:12 - more harshly and receiving firmer consequences and giving

12:18 - less grace than their counterpar that don't fall into those categ

12:22 - Right.

12:22 - And so we see that even right no that there are four districts

12:27 - of over 2000 students that fall into that population.

12:31 - We need to be addressing

12:35 - the needs of

12:36 - a community to be able to ensure that we're setting these childre

12:40 - up for success in looking at them in their huma

12:45 - And if it's a student with disab and understanding the types of l

12:50 - that they need or the way in which they learn

12:54 - and being able to afford those r it happens in the affluent areas

12:57 - because the money is there, the support is there, right?

13:03 - These communities of lower,

13:04 - lower socioeconomic status oftentimes are single parent hou

13:08 - And so not only is there a limit on financial re

13:12 - that these families can provide or these parents can provide,

13:16 - but there's a limit on time that they can also provide

13:19 - where conversely, affluent areas still present Day

13:23 - 2025 tend to be fully Caucasian

13:26 - areas or predominantly Caucasian

13:29 - There are two parent households.

13:31 - And so not only is there a higher level of incom

13:35 - that's able to be provided

13:39 - to the schools and supplement te

13:42 - Right.

13:43 - But there's also the opportunity

13:46 - for the families to be present a and supporting the academics

13:51 - of not just the learner but of the whole institution.

13:54 - Yeah, thank you for breaking dow some of those impacts

13:57 - and how all of those trends and kind of work together.

14:01 - I like to talk next about housing stability

14:04 - because that can impact the succ of a learner and a household.

14:08 - I mean, we know that evictions, displace

14:10 - and homelessness are really common in our state,

14:12 - even if they're not always visib in every community.

14:15 - Can you talk a little bit about the impacts

14:18 - that that has on educational opp for children in those households

14:22 - who have been displaced?

14:23 - Yeah, So children experience dis for a variety of reasons, right?

14:27 - Sometimes it's an adverse childhood experience

14:31 - that the adults or caregivers are subjecting them to.

14:35 - Sometimes it's migrant families.

14:37 - There's just there's a variety o why a learner

14:41 - or a child might find themselves displaced.

14:45 - But what the research shows is that students that experience

14:49 - displacement have interrupted ed

14:52 - and that interruption in their e creates

14:57 - somewhat of a trickle effect where some students

15:01 - are not able to return to the educational environment

15:04 - for whatever the circumstances w that have created them.

15:08 - Being removed from the environme

15:10 - So to begin with, so getting bac into the educational environment

15:14 - can sometimes be a challenge or and then continuing on.

15:19 - So we know that our poverty numb increased exponentially.

15:23 - I believe it was three times just through COVID,

15:27 - and we're still

15:28 - trying to rebound from the effects of COVID

15:32 - five years later, and we're seei

15:34 - in our learners even today.

15:38 - Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

15:40 - And incidentally, COVID doesn't just go away.

15:42 - The impacts are seen over time.

15:45 - So you had mentioned changing de a little bit,

15:47 - and I'd love to dive into that a little bit,

15:50 - a little bit more, because over decades, many communities

15:53 - throughout Pennsylvania have exp significant demographic change.

15:56 - Can you talk a little bit about that that that that has on schoo

16:01 - Yeah, absolutely.

16:03 - I think there is an obligation

16:05 - for educational institutions to

16:10 - with their surrounding demograph

16:14 - We don't always see it happen, but if we are truly in pursuit

16:18 - of educational equity, that our law that the HRA

16:22 - gives us the jurisdiction to do what we do here at the HRC

16:27 - it dictates that all learners in Pennsylvani

16:31 - have an environment free from discrimination,

16:33 - then that means that we need to who are our learners, right?

16:38 - And that does change over time.

16:40 - So we have communities that were historically

16:46 - predominantly Caucasian

16:47 - and now in 2025, over the course of the last

16:50 - decade, has evolved to over 50, 60, 70%

16:56 - And so we have to recognize those evolutions

17:00 - within our communities and make

17:02 - that the educational environment is suited to those students need

17:05 - And it's not just those types of but if we're seeing an influx

17:10 - of migrants, students, then understanding that again,

17:13 - it's an educational environment free from discrimination,

17:16 - which means that we have an obli to provide them with the resourc

17:19 - necessary to obtain their educat equitable rate so their counterp

17:25 - Similarly, the same consciousnes

17:29 - needs to be applied for students with disabilities as well.

17:33 - So as adults,

17:36 - that are dictating the environme for children,

17:39 - it is an obligation that I think that we all have

17:42 - to make sure that we see the chi in all of their identities

17:46 - and set them up for success to the best of our ability.

17:50 - Yeah, absolutely.

17:53 - Are there any best practices that you could share on how stud

17:56 - or how schools can respond to th changing needs of changing commu

18:01 - Yeah, I think too

18:03 - simple fixes because funding's not always a simple fix, right?

18:08 - We know that it was determined to be unconstitutional

18:10 - two years ago, but we still don' have a plan to remedy that.

18:14 - And I recognize that that oftent is outside of the school's hands

18:19 - But what can which school can do are two very easy things.

18:24 - One, creating environments that are inclusive of all types

18:29 - of students, recognizing if you have an increasing studen

18:34 - population that are part of the community and seeing what can be

18:39 - within that school community to

18:42 - a safe and inclusive environment for those identities.

18:45 - Again, students with disabilitie if you're having

18:48 - if maybe you've never had a stud with a particular type of disabi

18:53 - but you're now having this stude a part of that community, then a

18:57 - and pivoting where necessary so student feels welcomed in who th

19:03 - I think the biggest thing

19:04 - that we have to remember is that a lot of the identities

19:09 - are privileged in, we didn't ask but conversely

19:13 - the identities that we are oppre in, we also didn't ask for.

19:16 - And so I think level setting at

19:20 - and recognizing that these are c

19:23 - at the mercy of the adults in their environments

19:26 - and being responsible adults and creating environments

19:30 - that are welcoming for all types of students is incredibly import

19:34 - So that's one and we've been say for years, right?

19:39 - But I think it's important to put it into practice and look

19:42 - and that's going to change too,

19:44 - from district to district, because each district looks diff

19:47 - We have over 500 in Pennsylvania

19:50 - but also making sure that the pr

19:54 - within the school environment are welcoming

19:58 - to families and increasing family engagement

20:02 - Not always easy, right?

20:03 - In some districts where, as I me might be single parent household

20:09 - you know, the

20:10 - parent or family may need to be and things like that.

20:14 - But finding ways, if you recogni that you are in a district

20:18 - with single parent households, maybe offering

20:22 - types of evening events

20:25 - or daytime events that would all for those families to be engaged

20:28 - Yeah.

20:30 - Could you share a little bit about some of the common issues

20:33 - that you see in your work in and around schools?

20:37 - I think the one theme

20:39 - that I see that is also a little disheartening

20:43 - is the lack of knowledge and the lack of knowledge.

20:47 - And that's from from faculty and administrators to parents

20:51 - and guardians of families, students as well.

20:54 - There is a lack of knowledge about the protections that are o

21:00 - that the HRC offer or that the excuse me offers to

21:06 - And so I think that is one of my biggest effort

21:11 - that I've been putting out, is e with districts and engaging with

21:16 - to make them aware of their righ and empowering students

21:20 - that even if they are children, that they still have rights

21:25 - and they still have the ability to use their voices

21:29 - to advocate for themselves regardless of their age.

21:33 - Yeah, absolutely.

21:35 - Are there any really key misconc that you encounter a lot

21:38 - as you go about your work?

21:42 - There's there's quite a few.

21:43 - But I think one of the biggest misconceptions around educationa

21:48 - is this idea that equity is only

21:52 - on one thing and a lot of conver

21:55 - It's always focused on race.

21:57 - And that's not to say that race is not critical.

21:59 - It absolutely is.

22:02 - It is the basis for

22:04 - how we ended up in these structu and systemic inequities today.

22:09 - You mentioned redlining

22:10 - at the beginning of our conversa that was solely based on race.

22:13 - Right.

22:14 - So we have to acknowledge race a for some of these educational in

22:19 - But that's not the only thing.

22:20 - We have students with disabiliti

22:22 - We have English language learner we have migrant families.

22:26 - There is a variety.

22:28 - We have ten protected classes that the report offers and consi

22:32 - So we need to be looking at all of those elements.

22:36 - We are multifaceted humans and so we cannot silo

22:41 - any of these conversations aroun one one type of characteristic.

22:45 - We need to be looking at

22:48 - the variety

22:49 - of human that we have and that w

22:52 - Yeah, yeah. There's so many different facets

22:54 - to the diversity that we find in Pennsylvania.

22:56 - So I absolutely appreciate you highlighting all of those aspect

23:02 - I know the focus of our conversa today has been specifically

23:05 - around schools and housing, but as you mentioned earlier,

23:08 - your work at Picture City is muc in terms of education and outrea

23:12 - Could you share with our viewers who might be interested in learn

23:15 - about Paige or see about some of the free re

23:18 - and training programs that we do have to offer?

23:20 - Absolutely.

23:21 - So we are, as I mentioned, a sma but mighty agency.

23:26 - And so there really is no end to what we are

23:30 - willing to try to do as it relates to supporting our

23:34 - Our mission is to eradicate disc in the Commonwealth.

23:37 - So if that is offering trainings then we do that free of charge

23:42 - as Commonwealth employees and we a variety of trainings from fair

23:49 - focuses which

23:50 - you lead obviously and are very familiar with,

23:53 - We have our anti-discrimination of trainings, we have our divers

23:57 - of trainings, we have our consci types of trainings,

24:00 - humility and humanity types of t

24:04 - So really any type of discussion

24:08 - that points back to anti-discrim

24:11 - we are willing to have whatever type of training

24:15 - we're willing to carry with, you know, the requester.

24:19 - So that's one.

24:20 - We do a lot of outreach events, so we partner with a lot of comm

24:24 - on various types of events to ag bring awareness,

24:28 - have these types of conversation but also community building.

24:32 - We have an entire division devoted to that and

24:37 - we have keynotes.

24:38 - We have pretty much anything.

24:40 - I think if the request comes in, we will entertain it at least.

24:44 - Yeah, absolutely.

24:47 - So this this work is incredibly

24:50 - Could you share with us a little about what keeps you going in th

24:53 - challenging days?

24:56 - The work never stops

24:58 - because the outcomes still refle

25:02 - So some days are hard.

25:04 - I think this work does sometimes

25:07 - a very ugly side to humanity,

25:11 - but I also am not discouraged by

25:14 - I think some of the misconceptio

25:19 - there are just simply a lack of and a lack of understanding.

25:23 - And so

25:25 - until the disparities don't exis I'm going to keep doing this wor

25:29 - But I genuinely love the work to even even on the hard

25:33 - days, knowing that I am on the s of pursuing justice

25:37 - and equity for all human beings, for all hu

25:41 - I sleep, I sleep well.

25:43 - Maybe interrupted, but

25:45 - yeah, it's a powerful calling fo

25:48 - Well, thank you so much for taki the time to be on the show today

25:51 - We really appreciate both of you joining us.

25:53 - And for the leadership that you bring to future AC.

25:57 - And I'd also like to thank our v for spending their afternoon

25:59 - learning with us.

26:01 - If you believe that you've exper a housing discrimination

26:04 - or would like to learn more about housing protections in Pen

26:07 - give us a call at Christie's Fair Housing Lane,

26:10 - which is 8558665718.

26:14 - You can also find us on at our website on the screen whi

26:18 - WW dot dot gov slash n slash

26:22 - agencies slash c.

26:25 - You can also keep up with our wo on Facebook, Instagram, X, YouTu

26:29 - and LinkedIn.

26:31 - And remember, our communities ar when everyone has a place to cal

26:35 - We'll see you next time.

26:38 - This program has been paid

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