00:00 - This program has been paid for b

00:02 - sponsor and does not reflect the views o

00:20 - Good afternoon and welcome to PH Speaks Fair Housing Forward.

00:24 - I'm your host Brittany Mellinger and I serve as the Fair Housing

00:27 - and outreach coordinator at the Pennsylvania Human Relations Com

00:31 - In this show, we explore all thi housing with the experts, advoca

00:35 - and community leaders working to expand access to hous

00:39 - Today, we'll be discussing Paris's work in enforcing fair

00:43 - housing laws focusing on central Pennsylvania

00:46 - It's my pleasure to welcome to the show PHRC

00:49 - Harrisburg Regional Office Director Heather Roth.

00:52 - Heather joined the HRC in Januar

00:56 - as the Regional Director for the Harrisburg region.

00:58 - Prior to this role, Rapp spent 1 the field of human resources man

01:04 - Roth has served in multiple senior manager roles and has dir

01:07 - the human resources functions fo multi-site and multi-state organ

01:12 - Roth holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from P

01:15 - University, where she studied public relatio

01:18 - Roth has held professional certi in human resources since 2004.

01:23 - She obtained her speech hour, which is the senior professional

01:27 - Resources certification from the Resource Certification Institute

01:32 - And it still holds it still hold today.

01:35 - Roth was accepted as a member of the mid-Atlantic

01:38 - ADAS Leadership Network in 2016 with providing

01:42 - ADR training on behalf of the mi AIDS Center.

01:46 - Roth received two awards from the Commonwealth

01:49 - including a transformation award from the Governor's Office of In

01:53 - For her role in developing the Commission's

01:55 - online questionnaire and the Education and Outreach

01:58 - Award from the Commission for he in educating the public.

02:02 - Roth also received the executive

02:05 - as excellence Award in 2021 from the Commission.

02:09 - She has received various other a for her work in planning the Com

02:12 - disability conferences and her speaking engagement at the Commi

02:16 - sexual harassment conference.

02:19 - Welcome to the show, Director Ro

02:21 - We're so glad to have you. Thanks for having me.

02:24 - So we all have a story on how we got to our current work and v

02:28 - Could you share with our audienc a little bit about your journey

02:30 - to your current work? Absolutely

02:32 - Well, as you said, I graduated w a degree in public relations.

02:37 - I had a big dream.

02:39 - I was going to go to New York Ci and get a job in one of those bi

02:43 - And then I realized New York was really cold and I had to wal

02:47 - And I didn't like either one of

02:49 - So when I got out of college, I kind of stumbled

02:51 - into human resources and started as a recruiter.

02:55 - Worked my way up to a regional d of human resources.

03:00 - And I thought that's where my career would stay.

03:02 - But as fate has it, I was with a company who had a m

03:06 - and I had to decide if I wanted to move down

03:08 - south to keep my position or look for something new.

03:12 - And as fate had it, this regional director position

03:16 - And the more I read, the more I that's where I was meant to be.

03:19 - So I've been here now for 12 yea

03:23 - That's amazing.

03:24 - So you're regional director of the Harrisburg Regional Offic

03:27 - What area of the state does that

03:29 - Well, it covers most of the stat

03:32 - Our region is actually I call it central Pennsylvania,

03:35 - but it's the 34 counties from top to bottom and in the mi

03:39 - So we basically go all the way to the Pittsburgh line

03:43 - and all the way down to the Philadelphia line.

03:45 - And we cover everything that's in the middle there.

03:47 - So quite a quite a broad area.

03:49 - Yeah, absolutely.

03:51 - So can you tell our audience a little bit about the work

03:54 - that goes on in your office? Sur

03:57 - We have a great staff.

03:58 - I always want to start by saying

03:59 - that none of the work would get without the folks that are there

04:04 - I like to think of myself there as the regional director,

04:07 - for the staff, help guide and di the investigations, the intakes

04:13 - work with legal on cases that we decide that we're going

04:16 - to pursue in in the court, so to and also come out and do things

04:22 - and educate the public on discri how to file a complaint,

04:26 - also visit places that might be the subject of a discrimination

04:31 - and help them educate their staf their managers, to prevent compl

04:35 - from being filed and from discri happening to begin with.

04:38 - Yeah.

04:40 - So I know you can't go into a lot of detai

04:42 - that would breach any confidenti in cases, but could you speak

04:45 - more generally about what trends you're seeing these days?

04:48 - Well, it's funny because discrim seems to repeat itself.

04:53 - Sometimes there

04:53 - are certain groups of individual that are discriminated against.

04:58 - For instance, during 2020 and with the COVID pandemic,

05:02 - we saw a spike in all kinds of c against Asian-Americans

05:07 - because there was a bias at that

05:10 - Now we continue to see

05:12 - many complaints that are disability related,

05:16 - mostly folks with disabilities, but certainly some other categor

05:20 - And that's across the board.

05:21 - That's employment, housing, educ

05:26 - Lately, we're seeing a lot of ed complaints coming in K through 1

05:31 - where students are being bullied and harassed

05:34 - and unfortunately, the educators are not handling i

05:38 - We're also now seeing because of some changing

05:41 - I think we'll talk about a littl more complaints

05:43 - from pregnant workers coming in who have been denied accommodati

05:47 - So right now, I would say those are the three biggest tren

05:51 - But certainly tomorrow there could be a new one.

05:53 - It really depends on what's goin and in the state and the country

05:57 - Yeah. Yeah. That's really intere

05:59 - So you've been at Peter C for 12 now, which is a good chunk of ti

06:04 - Can you talk a little bit about

06:05 - the changes that you've seen at over that period of time?

06:09 - Yeah, well, lots of things have 12 years, believe it or not.

06:14 - Since I've been here,

06:14 - we've added more protections und and we've added regulations

06:19 - to include sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expre

06:25 - So that has brought another grou into us filing complaints.

06:29 - Unfortunately, we've seen

06:32 - marijuana become legalized medically in Pennsylvania.

06:36 - Unfortunately, the federal gover still see that as a Schedule one

06:40 - So the ADA does not cover

06:42 - those folks when they need that as an accommodation for their di

06:46 - Here in Pennsylvania.

06:47 - We construe things a little more

06:49 - a little more liberal with our interpretations.

06:52 - And we've taken the stance that folks with disabilities

06:56 - that use medical marijuana may be entitled to accommodation

07:00 - depending on what their job is.

07:01 - So we've definitely taken a diff look at that.

07:05 - And then recently, federally, the Pregnant Workers Fairness Ac

07:10 - which now provides pregnant work the ability to get accommodation

07:15 - where in the past it wasn't quite so straightforwa

07:19 - So we're now looking at those ca a little bit more differently,

07:22 - looking at more protections for for that group of employees.

07:25 - So things things change when the law changes,

07:29 - sometimes federally, sometimes within the state.

07:31 - But we definitely start to look at our cases a little di

07:36 - each time there's a new case or a law is amended or added.

07:40 - So there would be some examples in the last 12 years.

07:44 - Yeah, I can imagine for those in having those additional protecti

07:48 - can be absolutely life changing. Absolutely.

07:52 - So have there been changes in th that we actually go

07:54 - about investigations in cases that you've noticed?

07:58 - Well, I will say this.

08:00 - We are very diligent at looking at our investigative

08:03 - procedures on a very regular bas

08:06 - We get feedback from the folks that are doing the work,

08:10 - the division managers, to make s

08:13 - that we're on point or on track and that we're being effective.

08:17 - We have made some tweaks over th

08:20 - One of the biggest things I think that has changed and tha

08:24 - just a game changer for some com is how we look at mediation.

08:29 - As you know, we have a mediation

08:31 - We offer free mediation services for almost all of our complaints

08:36 - And now as soon as the responden our complaint,

08:41 - we offer proactively offer those mediation services to both

08:46 - so they can avail themselves of our services.

08:50 - Sometimes these cases don't even have to be investigat

08:54 - Our mediators, again, just like my staff, are t

08:56 - We have two terrific mediators r and they have been so successful

09:02 - Almost all of the cases that have come to them,

09:05 - they've been able to do some med

09:07 - So that is one of the big things

09:10 - the investigation, it's pretty s

09:13 - Each case obviously is a little

09:16 - depending on the allegations, depending on the facts of the ca

09:20 - But we try to follow a pretty st

09:24 - so that everybody gets the same investigation.

09:27 - So that really hasn't changed.

09:29 - I think the methods sometimes on

09:32 - get evidence.

09:34 - Sometimes we have to go on site

09:37 - when folks maybe are not coopera

09:39 - Sometimes we have to talk to people outside of their work

09:43 - You know, if they're not comfort being a witness and talking duri

09:47 - we change up from case to case.

09:49 - I'm not sure that we've we've changed our procedures

09:52 - so much over the 12 years because we know what how we do i

09:56 - So we keep that basic model.

09:58 - Yeah. Yeah.

09:59 - It's a good thing to have consistency in your proc

10:01 - and to make sure that everyone is getting a fair investigation.

10:04 - But certainly understands that the flexibility

10:09 - in tactic can also be really, really helpful a

10:13 - So this is helping shows.

10:14 - I do want to make sure that we're focusing in on housin

10:18 - Can you talk a little bit about the biggest issues

10:20 - that you're seeing in our housin these days?

10:23 - Well, I think there's a few that more than others.

10:28 - Two of the biggest things that w

10:31 - won't be a surprise based on what I said earlier

10:34 - revolves around folks with disab

10:38 - People often need

10:40 - their housing providers to make an accommodation

10:44 - in their policies or practices

10:46 - so that they can enjoy their hou

10:49 - One of the things, as an example that maybe someone wouldn't thin

10:52 - Folks with disabilities, sometimes their only income

10:55 - is their Social Security disability income,

10:58 - and maybe it doesn't come until the 10th of the month.

11:01 - We have folks that will ask for an accommodation and they're in

11:04 - policy.

11:05 - Can I please pay my rent on the of every month instead of the fi

11:09 - And many housing providers say,

11:12 - that's not that's not something that we

11:14 - But that would be some accommoda that we would require if asked.

11:20 - One of the other things that we are folks that need

11:23 - modifications to their housing u

11:25 - Most of the time, the folks that

11:29 - are in the housing are the ones that will pay

11:31 - for those accommodation or those modifications.

11:33 - And a lot of times the housing providers will simpl

11:37 - I'll talk a little bit later about two examples of that.

11:40 - But it can be very small, someth small as adding something to a b

11:45 - Or it could be something a little bit larger

11:47 - that might need a little bit more construction.

11:50 - But under the law, allowing them to make a modifica

11:53 - to allow them to use their housi is something that is generally r

11:59 - I see those two things quite a l

12:02 - The other thing we see in housin frequently is folks with disabil

12:06 - that either have service animals they might have emotional suppor

12:11 - and their housing providers say, sorry, we have a no pet pol

12:17 - but unfortunately you know, serv animals

12:19 - and emotional support animals, they're not considered pets.

12:24 - They're an extension of the pers

12:26 - They're something that they need as an accommodation.

12:28 - So that issue comes up quite fre

12:32 - Other things we see on a more regular basis,

12:36 - violations of our familial statu where

12:40 - landlords think it's okay to tel that if they have kids under 18,

12:44 - they won't they won't allow them to be in t

12:47 - or they'll allow them to move in but they can't be on that third

12:52 - or because there's a balcony or they think it's a safety issu

12:55 - Or maybe they can have the child but they can only stay in one pa

12:59 - you know, one part of the apartment comple

13:01 - because they don't want to disturb other guests.

13:04 - And a lot of folks just don't un that that's that's also unlawful

13:07 - So those are the big things.

13:09 - Certainly, we get a lot of folks that get evicted for various rea

13:14 - We have folks, unfortunately, th get harassed in housing, whether

13:20 - employees of the housing provide

13:22 - or other tenants, neighbors, that kind of thing.

13:26 - But definitely the accommodation and the modifications

13:29 - and the service animals are definitely the bigge

13:33 - Yeah.

13:33 - Thank you for for taking the tim to explain that to us.

13:38 - Your region, as you mentioned earlier, is pretty broad.

13:40 - You cover a big chunk of Pennsyl which is a bacon diverse state.

13:44 - It covers everything from,

13:46 - you know, small communities up in the mountains to farming

13:50 - communities to some sizable citi to up into the northeast,

13:54 - which has is really close to New and other really big metropolita

13:59 - Can you talk a little bit about the variation between area

14:02 - and how that impacts housing con

14:06 - Yeah, I was I was thinking about this earlie

14:08 - and I couldn't say like county b that there's one kind of discrim

14:12 - versus another.

14:13 - But I think what does make a dif is the rural communities

14:17 - versus more city communities.

14:20 - We tend to see in our rural comm

14:23 - a lot more mom and pop housing p

14:26 - that just maybe are not quite as up to date on their knowledge

14:30 - of especially discrimination law when it comes to housing.

14:34 - Whereas in the cities

14:35 - you tend to have folks, housing that have more units.

14:39 - They're more experienced, a little more knowledgeable.

14:44 - So the kind of discrimination you see in our rural places

14:47 - seems to be more blatant just because they don't know.

14:51 - And in the city areas, it certainly still happens just

14:55 - But maybe it's it's not as blata

14:58 - It's more hidden, if you will.

15:02 - We also see a lot in the rural a a little bit more racial discrim

15:05 - I think just because a lot of our rural areas here in Penns

15:09 - they're mostly Caucasian.

15:11 - So when we get communities that have folks coming in from o

15:14 - the community that look differen sound different than them,

15:18 - oftentimes, you know, they are discriminated against t

15:21 - There's a bias towards them.

15:23 - They they may

15:23 - behave the same as other tenants but they're held to different st

15:27 - because maybe the other tenants aren't comfortable with them.

15:31 - So we tend to see that in the rural communities.

15:33 - Other than that, again,

15:35 - there's discrimination and in every county, I hate to s

15:39 - and the same kind of things happ you know, in the cities and in t

15:42 - in the rural areas.

15:44 - It's just, I think, a matter of how much kn

15:46 - those housing providers have and and what kind of makeup,

15:50 - you know, is the population in the community in those areas.

15:53 - Yeah, yeah. That's very interest

15:54 - And I wouldn't be fulfilling my as training coordinator for feat

15:59 - without mentioning that we do of housing training

16:02 - to housing providers that are interested in just lear

16:06 - I know that you are deeply invol with providing training

16:09 - to housing providers when it's r as part of a settlement for a ho

16:15 - and as you're interacting with those housing providers

16:17 - in that training Senate setting, there's a lot of questions that

16:20 - Could you talk a little bit about some of the areas where ho

16:24 - providers might not know the law or or things that a lot of peopl

16:29 - Sure.

16:30 - And I'll just say, I love to go out and do training

16:33 - I love it even more when people before they're in trouble

16:36 - and they come in and talk to the especially when they see there

16:39 - might be, you know, some some co with their staff or their manage

16:44 - things, but I see a lot that people are surpri

16:46 - I keep going back to it.

16:47 - But the the service animal and e the emotional support animal iss

16:53 - housing providers are very confu as what they can ask their tenan

16:58 - you know, what's required to be to approve something like that.

17:02 - Many folks think that housing pr that they're entitled to their t

17:07 - their tenants medical records, and they're really not.

17:10 - There's certain limitations that they have on what they can

17:15 - Although background checks are not specifically protected

17:18 - under the age or how they use their background

17:22 - to weed tenants in or out, so to

17:25 - is an area of confusion.

17:28 - We try to, you know, let folks know that certain peop

17:32 - may be more apt to have things in their backgrou

17:35 - than others, and it could turn i of discrimination

17:38 - depending how they're applying i

17:40 - So having that conversation to m that their requirements make sen

17:44 - to make sure that they give each that wants to be a tenant, they'

17:48 - an individual assessment and give them an opportunity

17:51 - perhaps to explain if they have

17:55 - and that familial status thing that comes up a lot.

17:57 - Too many landlords don't underst why they they can't say no kids.

18:02 - A lot of folks say it's my prope you know, it's my choice.

18:06 - And you have to you have to gently educate them

18:10 - and let them know why that's not at least not here in Pennsylvani

18:13 - So, yeah, absolutely.

18:16 - So there may be viewers watching today that might realize that,

18:20 - hey, I think I actually may have experienced discriminat

18:23 - and want to file a complaint with our agency.

18:26 - What do you think they should kn starting the process to file a c

18:31 - Well, the one thing I always tel is, please understand

18:34 - that our investigators are neutr and unbiased.

18:38 - They're here to get the facts.

18:39 - So they're going to ask you some tough questions.

18:42 - They're going to ask those tough to the folks that

18:44 - that they want to file against,

18:46 - So they have to be prepared for the investigation

18:49 - if folks are experiencing discri if they have any evidence.

18:53 - Text messages, emails,

18:56 - voicemails, documents, witnesses that they can obtain or provides

19:01 - the investigation in

19:02 - is so helpful for us, and it makes the investigation g

19:07 - You know, one of the other thing I just want to let everybody kno

19:10 - it will take several months to get through the investigation

19:13 - So if you are experiencing discr if you are able,

19:17 - they should go to that employer or that housing provider

19:20 - and at least try to rectify it w first, because a lot of times th

19:24 - A lot of times

19:25 - the employer or the housing prov doesn't even know what's going o

19:29 - And they will make changes if they're made aware.

19:32 - An investigation is hard for bot you know, so if they can resolve

19:37 - with the other party first.

19:38 - That's always the outcome that that we're all looking for.

19:42 - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

19:44 - Would you be able to share an ex or two

19:47 - of some recent housing cases that were handled by your office

19:50 - Sure.

19:51 - I actually have two, and one is actually not from our

19:54 - but I thought it was relevant to the conversation.

19:57 - We recently held a public hearin in which the commission aired

20:00 - in favor of the complaint.

20:01 - It the complainant was an individual with mobility

20:06 - and a mobility issue and she simply re

20:10 - that she put grab bars in her sh so that she could get in and out

20:14 - And the respondent denied her re

20:17 - Now, for what reason?

20:19 - We still don't understand

20:21 - that individual suffered emotional distress.

20:26 - She was not able to live the way that she normally would live.

20:30 - She wasn't able to enjoy her hou

20:33 - And for those that don't know, i

20:36 - we are able to award damages for we call embarrassment and humili

20:41 - And she was awarded $60,000 for

20:44 - So for the housing providers that are listening,

20:47 - a $10 grab bar that she was will for and install herself

20:51 - cost that respondent $60,000 for not doing it.

20:55 - The other case similar but on I

20:58 - maybe a little bit greater scale of what was needed

21:01 - We actually have a public hearin scheduled at the end of this mon

21:04 - You could go on our website for but we had a gentleman

21:08 - who became disabled during the c of living in his apartment

21:13 - and could no longer traverse to the second floor of his apart

21:17 - He needed to have a chairlift in

21:19 - He had a community partner that was willing to pay for it,

21:23 - willing to install it, and the housing provider wouldn'

21:28 - They actually indicated that they had measured the unit

21:31 - and that it wouldn't work.

21:32 - And the investigation later foun that they never had even come ou

21:36 - and measured

21:37 - that public hearing is scheduled for the end of the month.

21:41 - And I think anyone that might be interested

21:42 - in seeing the kind of work we do and how our investigation plays

21:47 - look on our website, it'll be in the York area

21:50 - at the end of January, and I think it would be a very e

21:54 - experience for anyone that would like to come in and j

21:58 - Yeah, it's one thing to talk abo in broad generalities,

22:01 - but it's something else too.

22:02 - To hear about the specifics of the other case and how it it

22:05 - impacts an individual. Absolutel

22:08 - So I can't imagine that your job

22:12 - And I imagine that you have some really hard d

22:14 - hearing about the impacts of discrimination on people's li

22:18 - Can you talk a little bit about you going on those on those toug

22:22 - Yeah.

22:23 - I mean, after being here for 12

22:25 - there's so many things that go o in our commonwealth

22:28 - that I would never have believed before I saw these complaints.

22:33 - It is frustrating sometimes when we ha

22:35 - where we really believe that someone was discriminated a

22:39 - but we just simply can't get the to come forward or the evidence

22:44 - to support the case that those are difficult days.

22:48 - But for every one of those, you

22:50 - we have another individual that we can help in one way or a

22:54 - I know that many folks do not ha

22:56 - the resources to get an attorney and to take their case to court.

23:00 - So we kind of are their last opt

23:03 - And I take that very seriously.

23:05 - I know that we need to do good investigation

23:08 - We need to uncover every stone that we can.

23:11 - And sometimes, unfortunately, we find it wasn't discrimination

23:15 - And sometimes we find maybe

23:17 - the employer

23:18 - just wasn't fair or didn't have good policie

23:21 - I don't consider those losses ne

23:24 - I think that that gives closure, too, to the people,

23:27 - whether it's an employee or a housing tenant.

23:31 - Sometimes things just aren't don and our investigation

23:34 - will help guide new policies or

23:37 - So every day that's hard.

23:38 - I think for every person that we helped in some manner,

23:42 - whether it was a settlement, whether it was a policy change,

23:46 - whether it was just they had clo

23:49 - I know that the hard days are wo

23:51 - So that's what that's what keeps

23:53 - Great.

23:55 - Well, thank you so much for taking the

23:57 - to come on the show and to share about your work.

23:59 - And thank you for the leadership you provide to our agency.

24:03 - I'd also like to thank our viewe spending their afternoon learnin

24:07 - If you believe that you've exper housing discrimination

24:09 - or would like to learn more about housing protections in Pen

24:13 - give us a call at our Fair Housi

24:16 - which is 8558665718.

24:20 - You can also find us at our website on the screen, wh

24:24 - W dot dot gov slash n

24:27 - slash agencies slash p h r c.

24:31 - You can also keep up with our wo on Facebook, Instagram, x, YouTu

24:35 - and LinkedIn.

24:37 - And remember, our communities ar when everyone has a place to cal

24:41 - We'll see you next time.

24:44 - This program has been paid

24:45 - for by the sponsor and does not reflect the views o