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00:22 - Good afternoon

00:23 - and welcome to Speaks Fair Housing Forward.

00:26 - I'm your host, Brittany Mellinger, and I serve as the Fair housing training

00:30 - and outreach coordinator at the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission.

00:34 - In this show, we explore all things housing with the experts,

00:38 - advocates, and community leaders working to expand access to housing.

00:42 - Today, we'll be talking about

00:44 - Turkey's outreach efforts and how we can all work together

00:47 - for welcoming and inclusive communities for all individuals.

00:51 - It's my pleasure to welcome to the show my colleague Cheryl Meck.

00:55 - Cheryl serves as the director of Civil Rights Outreach

00:58 - within the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission.

01:02 - Prior to this role, Mack served a combined ten years in the adult

01:05 - probation and parole field.

01:07 - She began her career supervising high risk cases as a state agent for Maryland.

01:12 - She then transferred to Lancaster County Adult Probation and Parole,

01:16 - where she supervised and worked closely with domestic violence

01:19 - offenders for five years before being promoted to supervisor

01:23 - of the Behavioral Health Neurodevelopmental Disorders Unit.

01:27 - As the first Filipino-American American woman in a management position

01:31 - within the history of the Lancaster County Adult Probation.

01:35 - Mack graduated from basic 94th Firearms Training Academy in 2018,

01:40 - and served in a secondary position on the Special Intervention

01:43 - Unit for the Lancaster County Adult Probation.

01:46 - She also contributed as a CPR instructor for the agency.

01:51 - Mack is trained

01:51 - in motivational interviewing, trauma informed, and crisis intervention.

01:56 - Mack is a founder and co-chair of diversity, respect,

02:00 - Inclusive Inclusivity, values, Equity Drive

02:03 - Committee for the Lancaster County Court, a court of Common Pleas.

02:08 - This committee is dedicated to community outreach, internal training

02:12 - and continues efforts towards fostering a positive relationship

02:15 - between entities of the court system and the people within the community.

02:19 - Mack is a graduate of California University of Pennsylvania,

02:23 - where she earned her Bachelor's of Liberal Arts degree

02:26 - in Criminal Justice with a concentration in Forensic Science.

02:30 - In 2010,

02:31 - Mack has earned a master's of science degree in Public Safety with concentration

02:35 - in public administration from Capella University.

02:38 - In 2010, she continued on earning 28 credits

02:42 - towards her Doctorate of Public Administration.

02:45 - Welcome, director, and thank you for joining us.

02:47 - Thank you for having me in for the introduction, I appreciate it.

02:50 - Absolutely.

02:51 - So we've heard a lot about your background and your experience,

02:55 - but we all have a story on how we got to our current work.

02:58 - I love to start our conversation today by inviting you

03:01 - to share a little bit about your journey to your current vocation.

03:04 - Sure.

03:05 - So, as you mentioned, I spent ten years working in adult probation and parole,

03:10 - and it was in 2020 that sparked my true passion

03:13 - and this fight for social justice, civil and human rights.

03:16 - And that was after the unfortunate witness where the world saw

03:20 - the murder of George Floyd and I started to speak up,

03:24 - particularly pertaining to, you know, in probation and parole,

03:27 - we have the choice to make whether or not we're going to arrest someone.

03:31 - And I felt very compelled to speak up on the necessary trainings

03:35 - we should be receiving on humanity across the board.

03:38 - That speaking up prompted me

03:41 - to become a founder, one of the co-founders of the drive committee.

03:44 - And I'm proud to say that today it now is not just within adult probation

03:49 - and parole, but it's across the entire Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas.

03:53 - So every department within, has functions

03:57 - of the drive committee where we focus on training, outreach.

04:00 - We look at how we interact with each other and how we treat,

04:03 - the community that we serve.

04:05 - And so from there, that is really what sparked my passion in this work.

04:10 - And I'm very grateful to have, the opportunity to be in this position today.

04:15 - It's incredible. And we're thrilled to have you with us.

04:17 - Thank you.

04:18 - So you lead the newest division within the our Civil Rights Outreach Division.

04:22 - Can you tell us a little bit about the work that you and your team do?

04:25 - Absolutely.

04:26 - So it's an honor to be on such a historical journey as a newly

04:31 - created division with the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission.

04:34 - The division is comprised of myself as the director and for civil

04:38 - rights outreach coordinators.

04:39 - Three out of the Harrisburg office and one out of the Philadelphia office.

04:43 - And we are to be seen as Pennsylvania's peacemakers.

04:46 - We are your immediate response team

04:48 - to any time there's an incident that civil tension

04:52 - is rising in the community, we want to come out and have a presence.

04:56 - We want to share space

04:57 - that's safe for for community members to share their concerns.

05:01 - We want to listen and then figure out ways that we can lead and provide resources,

05:05 - and of course, inform the community of Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission

05:09 - as the state's leading enforcement civil rights agency, that there is law

05:14 - that they are protected under.

05:15 - And that is our job and our purpose.

05:17 - So your Pennsylvania's peacemaker, could you expand a little bit about what

05:22 - that would look like and what that does look like when you go into the community?

05:25 - Sure.

05:26 - So we actually call them in-house community response plans.

05:29 - And how that starts is will receive a call

05:32 - from someone in the community raising concerns about a particular event.

05:35 - So it could be school board policy, school boards,

05:39 - considering policies that might have disparate treatment or other education

05:44 - equity issues or maybe sexual harassment in the workplace.

05:47 - Something triggers us, to create a community response plan.

05:51 - And as I mentioned, we want to make sure

05:55 - that we are rapid in our response to the best of our ability.

05:58 - And so we have standardized PowerPoints

06:01 - that, relay information on who the RC is, what the Pennsylvania Human Relations

06:07 - Act is about, who the Civil Rights Division members

06:10 - are of the C, and how to file a complaint.

06:13 - And then we'll go out and present on that.

06:15 - But we also include a piece of what that that initial call was about.

06:20 - So for example, in Philadelphia, we did a community

06:23 - response plan that talked about LGBTQ

06:26 - violence statistics and how much it goes underreported.

06:31 - And we shed light on different concerns about that and then educate

06:35 - on the additional LGBTQ protections that the Fra allows into the law.

06:41 - And so I you know, I'm proud to say that during the first year

06:45 - of the existence of the Civil Rights Division, we were able to complete

06:49 - eight different community response plans throughout the Commonwealth.

06:53 - And now that we have more grounding and an easier flow

06:57 - on how we work through this, my goal for 2025 is to be able to access,

07:03 - you know, enter into multiple other counties,

07:06 - to hold space for that, one great thing that comes out of these

07:09 - community response plans is that we learn a lot of people don't know about,

07:14 - you know, the sea itself or exactly what protected classes

07:18 - are or not recognizing that there is LGBTQ

07:21 - protections or Crown protections that that individuals have.

07:25 - And so getting out into the space, meeting the people where they live,

07:30 - it opens a great door for connections and, and outreach efforts through that way.

07:34 - And then oftentimes, people will call us back afterwards wanting

07:38 - additional trainings or wanting to know how to move forward

07:41 - with how to file, how to file a complaint with the HRC.

07:44 - And so it's extremely beneficial

07:46 - for us to continue to get out to all 67 counties across the state.

07:50 - Yeah, absolutely.

07:51 - You don't know what you don't know.

07:53 - And, I know some of the LGBTQ protections

07:56 - and the Crown protections are actually some of the newer protections.

07:59 - That we've established.

08:02 - Could you talk a little bit to our viewers

08:04 - who might not be familiar with what those are?

08:06 - Could you give us just a really quick overview?

08:09 - Absolutely.

08:10 - So, we adopted these into our regulations back in August of 2023.

08:16 - And so it's, an an additional interpretation

08:20 - of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act in that with respect to LGBTQ protections,

08:25 - anybody is allowed to express their gender the way that he, she or they choose to.

08:31 - One person cannot, for example, be fired from a job

08:35 - because that they decided to transition.

08:38 - And so those protections are an incredible source

08:42 - of information to be knowledgeable of, for all Pennsylvanians.

08:46 - In addition to the Crown Act, Crown Act is, you know, refers to our hair.

08:51 - And so, you know, we've all heard the stories of possibly,

08:54 - you know, a student that may have had to remove his dreads

08:57 - in order to participate in the sport or have their hair only a certain length,

09:02 - in order to, you know, be considered acceptable in school.

09:06 - And, you know, the Crown Act protects, individuals

09:10 - that need protected hairstyles.

09:12 - And so you can no longer be discriminated against, for how you wear your hair.

09:17 - If you're wearing an a protective hairstyle or head wrap.

09:20 - And so, again, that's just another piece that, you know, it's relatively new

09:24 - as of 2023, and it's our responsibility to get out in the community

09:29 - and spread the word.

09:30 - Yeah. And you have a big job to do.

09:33 - I know Pennsylvania has the unfortunate, reputation

09:36 - of having one of the highest numbers of hate groups in the nation.

09:39 - Can you talk about why this is?

09:41 - What factors are at play? Sure.

09:43 - So I think it's important to start off with some data.

09:46 - And, in 2023, Southern Poverty Law Center was able to identify 78

09:52 - different hate or anti-government groups within the state of Pennsylvania.

09:56 - Also, according to that year's data, Pennsylvania ranked number

09:59 - ten in the country.

10:01 - And I think when we first just give space to hold on

10:04 - to those numbers, that should be alarming for every resident.

10:07 - Within the state of Pennsylvania.

10:09 - As far as why these, these hate groups exist,

10:13 - I think the root of that is fear, ignorance.

10:18 - The inability to want to hear

10:20 - another person's story, and just, you know,

10:24 - recognizing that it's

10:26 - okay to be in spaces with people of different backgrounds,

10:29 - different faiths, and that if we can learn to get along with each other,

10:33 - my hope is that down the road, those numbers will certainly go down.

10:37 - Yeah, absolutely.

10:39 - So you shared some some great data with us.

10:41 - Could you now share some examples of some of the issues that communities

10:45 - have brought to your team and how you've worked to address them?

10:48 - Absolutely.

10:49 - So, we have heard

10:52 - a lot in the school space as far as bullying and harassment.

10:56 - A lot of times, you know, demographics are changing.

11:00 - So if a population, is becoming more predominantly Spanish speaking,

11:04 - the school has the responsibility to be able to equitably provide

11:08 - those needs for those students so that they can learn

11:10 - and no child is left behind.

11:12 - That's one example in the school setting.

11:13 - But we are hearing, you know, different concerns across the board.

11:17 - So in the space of housing, you know,

11:20 - the fact that income needs to be 2 to 3 times higher,

11:24 - than than what the rent is, that's hard for a, for the marketplace.

11:28 - And when you relate it to transportation, if it's in a rural area,

11:32 - there might not be a bus system that goes past a certain hour.

11:36 - And so those people that could work second and third shift,

11:39 - they might not have a way to get to work.

11:41 - And so the various issues that we are hearing stem

11:44 - all across the complexities of humanity.

11:46 - But I've been thankful that we've been able to get out and advocate

11:50 - and meet the people where they're at and direct them

11:53 - back to the city so that they are aware of their protections.

11:57 - So can you talk a little bit about the impact

12:00 - that hate crimes and bias incidents have on community members?

12:04 - So hate crimes and hate bias

12:06 - definitely has a negative impact on the community as a whole.

12:10 - So let's take for example, in a in a county

12:13 - where there may be a change in the demographics

12:16 - and, different immigration population is starting to move in.

12:20 - If the the community that was already there, is having some type of fear

12:26 - or misunderstanding about the new group that's coming in, they may have,

12:30 - rhetoric that's not true.

12:32 - Rhetoric that could be very hurtful.

12:34 - And so there's impact on both sides.

12:39 - The people that have been living there may think that, oh, these people

12:42 - are coming in to take my jobs, so on and so forth.

12:45 - While that's not the case,

12:47 - for the new population that's moving in, they want a safe place to live.

12:51 - And so when you have bias, in this sense,

12:55 - it definitely affects the psychological safety for everyone involved.

12:58 - And I think it's important to take a step back, be in a position

13:04 - where you're willing

13:04 - to get to know one another, be in a position where you're open to

13:07 - to reading, knowing the truth, fact finding and recognizing that hate

13:12 - rhetoric has no place for for anyone in the state of Pennsylvania.

13:17 - So we were talking a little bit about the importance of of home

13:20 - and like what that means to an individual, to a family.

13:24 - Can you talk a little bit about how these incidents impact the housing

13:27 - stability of groups who may be impacted by hate crimes and bias incidents?

13:32 - Yes, absolutely.

13:33 - I definitely want to touch base on the fact that tenants,

13:36 - they have the right to not be exposed to harassment.

13:40 - Right.

13:41 - And harassment can come in different forms.

13:43 - It could be from the property owners, the maintenance staff, different vendors

13:48 - that, communities are using to come in, and address different things.

13:52 - And so with that, housing providers also have the responsibility

13:57 - to take prompt action

13:58 - to address the harassment that's going on and make the necessary changes.

14:02 - I think also for the individual that is, in those situations,

14:07 - receiving harassment, as I mentioned, it affects your psychological safety.

14:12 - And so a lot of what the civil Rights Division's role and responsibility

14:16 - is, is to empower through education and outreach, making sure that both

14:20 - housing providers and residents are aware of their rights and protections.

14:25 - Yeah, absolutely.

14:27 - So say one of our viewers has experienced a hate crime or a bias incident,

14:32 - or they know someone in their community that has what are the steps

14:35 - that they should take to address an incident to get it investigated.

14:39 - So great question.

14:41 - First and foremost, you have to speak up.

14:43 - You know, depending on what occurred, contact your local police department.

14:47 - If there was hate speech involved, contact the Pennsylvania

14:50 - Human Relations Commission that is covered under the Pennsylvania Human

14:54 - Relations Act.

14:55 - Reach out to myself.

14:56 - I'm happy to provide my contact information.

14:59 - There are steps, but first and foremost is to report,

15:03 - you know, when we shed light into areas of darkness, that's

15:06 - the only way that it can be revealed what's really happening.

15:09 - And and then from there, move forward on what will it take to

15:12 - stop it change and improve from that?

15:15 - Yeah, absolutely.

15:17 - So how can

15:18 - individuals, organizations, faith communities, local leaders,

15:22 - how can all of these groups respond to incidents when they become aware of them?

15:26 - How can we make sure?

15:28 - How can we all make sure that folks feel welcome in their homes,

15:31 - in their communities?

15:32 - So I, I love this question because the answer is multifaceted

15:37 - and that it takes everyone, to step in.

15:41 - And so what I mean by that was, you know,

15:44 - are you creating in your neighborhood a safe space for your neighbors?

15:48 - Are you interacting well with one another?

15:50 - You know, as far as when something happens again,

15:54 - reach out, reach out to local leaders, reach out to your state agency.

15:59 - That's what we're here for.

16:00 - And I am so appreciative of the work of advisory

16:03 - councils and HRC Social Justice Ambassador program.

16:06 - They serve as an extension of the TRC.

16:09 - They are our eyes and ears in the community,

16:12 - and that is a huge way of how we find out what's going on.

16:15 - And so I would just encourage continued collaboration

16:19 - amongst stakeholders, amongst local leaders, state and federal.

16:23 - You know, this is a crisis of human brokenness.

16:27 - And the only way we're going to fix it is if we figure out how to come together.

16:31 - Yeah, absolutely.

16:33 - Looking specifically at the housing setting,

16:35 - what role can our housing providers play in ensuring that our communities are free

16:40 - from harassment

16:41 - and intimidation, that homes are safe places for people to be two fold?

16:45 - I think that housing providers should make sure that they receive

16:48 - the adequate training of the law.

16:50 - And that's a great thing about HRC.

16:52 - All of our trainings are free at no cost,

16:55 - and can be tailored specifically to what exactly they are looking for.

16:59 - So I think accountability and knowledge of the law for housing providers

17:02 - and then internally, you know, if it's a property manager for a community,

17:06 - feel free to put out some type of qualitative data request asking,

17:11 - you know, the people in the community, how do you feel?

17:14 - What are some areas of improvement?

17:16 - What are some strengths that you are enjoying living in this community?

17:19 - Data is everything, both qualitative and quantitative,

17:22 - and that's what's going to help push the needle forward.

17:25 - Could you talk a little bit

17:26 - about some challenges that you've found as you've engaged with community members?

17:30 - I'm sure you've come up with a diversity

17:32 - of, of opinions and perspectives as you've gone about your work.

17:36 - Yes, absolutely.

17:37 - So I would say, you know, there's language barriers,

17:41 - but I'd want to touch on the fact that we have telephonic interpretation.

17:45 - And so, speaking a different language should not, prevent

17:49 - anybody from wanting to call in.

17:51 - You know, please do.

17:53 - So I also would like to encourage those that maybe fear retaliation,

17:58 - especially if there's some issues going on with their employment.

18:01 - That is a fearful and legitimate concern

18:03 - because of needing your job, needing your paycheck.

18:07 - But with that, it's important to note that retaliation

18:11 - is also protected under the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act.

18:15 - And therefore, if someone chooses to move forward with a complaint,

18:19 - you know, the respondent must be made well aware that retaliation,

18:24 - would fall under that complaint as well as if it if it were to occur.

18:29 - So I know another tool that your,

18:31 - that your team uses is, the no hate in our state town halls.

18:35 - Can you share a little bit about what those events, are and,

18:39 - and what the impact that they have are in communities afterwards?

18:42 - Absolutely.

18:43 - So no hate in our state.

18:44 - Town halls are on a bigger scale

18:47 - than a community response plan that I previously talked about.

18:50 - I love these type of events because not only is it,

18:54 - co-led, it's led with members of the community.

18:59 - And so myself and our executive director, Chad Dillon Lassiter, will serve

19:03 - as panelists, on a panel.

19:05 - And then we looked for 2 to 3 community leaders from various

19:09 - backgrounds could be retired law enforcement,

19:11 - someone from the education field, someone from the medical field.

19:15 - And so we bring together this panel, where we ask,

19:19 - we are asked questions about human brokenness or how,

19:23 - you know, how to handle various issues relevant to the community.

19:27 - And at the end of that, we hold space for the community members,

19:31 - the attendees themselves, to share and usually by the time

19:35 - the panelists are done, you can see a shift in the reality

19:41 - of the whole purpose of these town halls is to bridge a divide and understanding

19:45 - it is to come together and be united against any form of hate.

19:50 - And ultimately, what I have found is that is what

19:52 - the majority of Pennsylvanians want.

19:56 - And so oftentimes you have to pull back the layers of ignorance and fear

20:00 - and trauma to get to the space where, okay, let's share on our experience.

20:06 - Let's share on where we are at in the current moment,

20:09 - and then let's figure out ways to move forward.

20:12 - And so I am hopeful

20:14 - and looking forward to more no hate in our state town halls in 2025.

20:18 - Yeah, that's incredible that you're able to create that space, along with the local

20:21 - partners, to allow people to share honestly and bridge those differences.

20:26 - Often I feel like it's really challenging

20:28 - to find those spaces these days to be able to engage in that way.

20:32 - So that's that's really amazing.

20:34 - I know your team is also focused on

20:36 - just getting out into the community in so many different spaces.

20:40 - Can you talk a little bit about some of the outreach that you've been doing, where

20:44 - folks might have seen your team recently, or where you might be going forward?

20:48 - Yes. So, we as I mentioned, we worked hand in hand with advisory councils.

20:53 - If there's a local event happening,

20:55 - you know, we're happy to have a table there where we can have

20:59 - HRC material, swag, just have a presence and be available to talk.

21:03 - We've been at children's carnivals.

21:05 - We were just recently at the Farm show all week.

21:09 - I know, coming up for MLK in-service

21:12 - day, we'll be at Girard College in the Philadelphia area.

21:16 - And so I would strongly, you know, advise

21:18 - anyone that's interested in coming to meet the civil Rights division for the RC,

21:22 - check out our website, check out our upcoming events.

21:25 - It is posted on the website.

21:27 - So we know this is really challenging work.

21:30 - This is not easy.

21:31 - I'm sure to engage in these conversations day in and day out,

21:34 - helping communities come together and, and find spaces.

21:38 - So welcome.

21:38 - Can you share what keeps you going on the really hard days?

21:41 - Great question.

21:42 - My faith and my children.

21:46 - And so I will say that, I am

21:50 - well aware of the blessings

21:53 - and abilities that I have in life today.

21:56 - Are a fruit of the advocacy and hard work of those

22:00 - that, were on the social justice pursuit before me.

22:04 - And while it is my turn currently to carry the social justice baton,

22:08 - I want to make sure that when it's my time to hand it off,

22:12 - that I've done everything that I could while I had it.

22:15 - Yeah, absolutely.

22:17 - Director Mack, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today

22:21 - and to talk about the work that you and your team are doing.

22:23 - It's incredibly

22:24 - important work, and I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule.

22:30 - I would also like to thank

22:31 - our viewers for spending their afternoon learning with us.

22:34 - If you believe that you've experienced housing discrimination

22:37 - or would like to learn more about housing protections in Pennsylvania,

22:40 - give us a call at Mercy's Fair housing line,

22:44 - which is (855) 866-5718.

22:48 - You can also find us at our website, which is on the screen.

22:52 - You can keep up with our work on Facebook, Instagram X, YouTube and LinkedIn.

22:57 - And remember, our communities are stronger when everyone has a place to call home.

23:02 - We'll see you next time.

23:05 - This program has been paid for by the sponsor

23:07 - and does not reflect the views of PCN.