00:00 - This program has been paid for by the sponsor and does not

00:03 - the views of PCN.

00:06 - the views of PCN.

00:19 - Good afternoon

00:20 - and welcome to PHRC Speaks: Fair Housing Forward.

00:24 - I'm your host, Brittany Mellinge and I serve as the Fair Housing

00:27 - and outreach coordinator at the Pennsylvania Human Relations Com

00:32 - In this show, we explore all thi housing with the experts, advoca

00:36 - and community leaders working to expand access to hous

00:40 - Today, we'll be discussing the t of housing protections

00:43 - for immigrants and survivors of violence.

00:47 - It's my pleasure to welcome to t my colleague Tamara Shehadi, Cop

00:51 - Tamara, how do you cope as a hearing exa

00:54 - with the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission,

00:56 - which is Pennsylvania's leading civil rights enforcement

01:01 - In her current role, she serves as an adjudicator and presides o

01:05 - relating to the alleged discrimi in housing,

01:09 - employment, commercial property, and public accommodations.

01:14 - Prior to joining the PHRC, Shehadeh Cope practiced immigrat

01:19 - and represented asylees and immigrant survivors

01:22 - of domestic violence and human and human tra

01:25 - Before the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland S

01:29 - she has also worked diligently to provide trauma informed advoc

01:33 - to crime victims and to facilita to free legal services

01:37 - through her outreach work.

01:39 - Shehadeh Cope is a graduate of t University

01:42 - of New York School of Law and Fo University.

01:45 - Welcome hearing Examiner Jihadi

01:47 - And thank you for joining us.

01:49 - Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely.

01:53 - So we all have a story to

01:54 - share about how we got to our cu and vocation.

01:57 - I'd like to start our conversati this afternoon

01:59 - by inviting you to share your jo to your current work.

02:03 - Sure.

02:03 - So I have been here in the Commo of Pennsylvania for a little ove

02:08 - 14 years now.

02:10 - I'm a Brooklyn native.

02:11 - I was born in New York City to the two parents

02:15 - who immigrated to the United Sta in the seventies and eighties.

02:20 - And so I think, you know, being the second generation and

02:25 - eldest child of immigrant parent

02:27 - you with a bit of a unique perspective on life and, you kno

02:32 - very ethnically diverse, very cu religiously diverse upbringing.

02:36 - And so I knew at a very early ag

02:40 - I had an awareness of the variou that family members

02:44 - were navigating in order to build a life here in the Unit

02:48 - And with that, I also saw what who the system p

02:52 - and who it didn't necessarily pr and who experienced barriers to,

02:58 - you know, getting what they needed at the

03:02 - And so really just always having an awareness.

03:04 - I also always had an interest in human rights work, in

03:07 - international human rights work that just grew as I got older.

03:11 - And, you know, with the decision to go to law school

03:16 - came the knowledge that I wanted to dedicate my life to public se

03:20 - And, you know, and if it was som that was, you know,

03:24 - that had to do with internationa rights even better.

03:28 - And so really, as

03:30 - I talk about my early experience because it really did shape, you

03:34 - who I knew, who I wanted to be and who I wanted to assist.

03:37 - And so I practiced immigration law for a number of years,

03:41 - and I served as detained

03:44 - individuals in York County priso here at the Commonwealth at the

03:49 - And then my work transitioned to serving domestic violence sur

03:54 - who were either undocumented or non-citizens.

03:58 - And in that work, I came to witness a lot of

04:02 - the adversities and a lot of the discrimination

04:04 - that a lot of my clients were experiencing.

04:06 - And so it felt like a natural pr into the work.

04:10 - Now, at the PHRC, where I can continue to serve co

04:16 - that are experiencing these traumatic events

04:19 - and hopefully assist and have mo an impact on a larger scale.

04:25 - Thank you so much for

04:26 - sharing your story with us and how you got to your current

04:29 - I'm sure you're your previous wo really informs

04:34 - the work that you do today here at PRC as well.

04:37 - But I'd like to start our conver focusing on on your earlier lega

04:41 - So you provided legal services to immigrants.

04:44 - Can you share a little bit

04:45 - more about who you served and what your day to day work lo

04:49 - Sure, I'd love to.

04:50 - I'm so my early work in the immi legal field

04:54 - was with immigrant detainees

04:57 - who are awaiting their hearings and removal proceedings.

05:01 - So they were individuals that were being detained

05:05 - at the York County prison at the which has since closed.

05:08 - Now, there is a facility at Mich Valley that houses individuals.

05:13 - And so I was part of a program, a nationwide program administere

05:17 - by the Department of Justice,

05:18 - that provided legal orientation to individuals awaiting hearing.

05:22 - So immigration proceedings are administrative civil proceed

05:26 - And so similar to other civil pr

05:30 - there is in right to counsel that you might see in a criminal

05:34 - And so a lot of individuals end up appearing pro

05:37 - se or representing themselves in removal proceedings.

05:41 - A lot of individuals

05:42 - come to the United States as ver knowledge of the immigration law

05:46 - or a very limited idea of what to expect at once here.

05:49 - And so really my job was to go

05:52 - in, provide these legal education classes, e

05:57 - describing what you can expect when you go into court.

06:00 - You know, who is sitting where.

06:02 - What are the questions that you might be asked?

06:04 - What are some potential forms of

06:07 - you know, that you might be elig

06:10 - And here are some property mater that might aid you in your proce

06:15 - So in addition to that, I was also providing legal repre

06:18 - to individuals who were asylum s who were requesting asylum

06:23 - or cancellation, removal of remo which is a form of relief

06:28 - for someone who has been here for a number of years.

06:31 - And so as that transitions into on working with survivors.

06:36 - And so I went from a more

06:40 - defensive process, right in removal defens

06:43 - and being in court to more of an application based

06:48 - And so that work with survivors of domestic violence

06:52 - was certainly different.

06:55 - We were providing submitting app to USCIS, the U.S.

07:00 - Citizenship and Immigration Serv

07:02 - And also I was working

07:04 - with individuals who might have victimized by human traffickers

07:09 - as well, or were victims of sexu or similar interpersonal violenc

07:14 - And so a lot of my work was in p relief under VAWA as well as you

07:19 - And TV says, Wow, wow.

07:23 - I want to make sure that all of our viewers who are

07:26 - this afternoon who might not hav as extensive a background in imm

07:31 - as you do understand what who we're talking about.

07:34 - Would you be able to share and c the difference on

07:38 - what an asylee is versus a refug someone that's undocumented?

07:42 - Can you talk a little bit about

07:43 - I'd love to, yes.

07:44 - So I'm really with an asylee.

07:46 - And of course, these are terms

07:47 - that we see a lot in the news, especially as of late.

07:51 - And so really asylees and refuge

07:55 - the difference is largely contin on where the individual

07:58 - all of that is applying for that relief is.

08:01 - So a refugee is someone who is o of their country of nationality,

08:05 - who can't return to their country of nationality

08:08 - because they've either experienced persecution

08:12 - or they have a well-founded fear of persecution

08:15 - based on their race, religion, nationality,

08:18 - political opinion, or because th to a particular social group.

08:23 - And so refugees are typically go through the application process

08:28 - when they're outside of the Unit prior to coming in.

08:31 - And so they're coming in

08:33 - and then eventually, once in the United States and once re

08:36 - after a certain period of time, they can go on

08:39 - and apply for permanent residenc there is a pathway to citizenshi

08:43 - And Asylee is

08:46 - a refugee, a Similarly, you know there is a fear of returning

08:49 - to their country because of the that I just described.

08:54 - The difference is an asylee is already here in the United St

08:57 - so they might be at a port of en seeking admission to the United

09:01 - or they might have already been for a time.

09:04 - And they are also a similarly afraid of persecutio

09:08 - They have that well-founded fear of persecution

09:10 - or they have experienced persecu in their country of origin.

09:13 - And so and I appreciate the seco of your question about

09:17 - really the different terminology

09:19 - because I will say just immigration law is so vast.

09:24 - Right.

09:24 - So, you know, when we look at as and refugee status,

09:29 - these are more humanitarian, you know, forms of relief for so

09:34 - But we also have, you know, an i law, family based petitions.

09:37 - A large number of individuals come to the U.S.

09:40 - because they have an immediate family member, for example, that

09:43 - citizen, and they're petitioning

09:46 - And so, really, you know,

09:49 - it's there are just a number of

09:53 - essentially it's someone can imm to the United States.

09:56 - So in

09:57 - terms of, you know, other terms that we hear often.

10:01 - Right.

10:01 - So, you know, you might hear me someone is undocumented or a non

10:08 - I am very I very specifically stay away from the term illegal,

10:13 - you know, And it is more accurat that someone is maybe here

10:17 - illegally or unlawfully, but and that someone is undocumented

10:23 - they might not have any status a as opposed to a non-citizen who,

10:28 - you know, might be here temporar who might be who might have

10:32 - a green card, permanent residenc but just might not be a U.S.

10:36 - citizen.

10:37 - Yeah. Thank you for that clarifi

10:39 - So that we all are on the same p about what we're talking about a

10:43 - who we're talking about.

10:45 - Could you talk a little bit abou

10:47 - role language barriers played for the folks that you se

10:51 - Getting into the housing part of conversation, did it cause any c

10:56 - in getting into housing or maint housing for your clients?

11:00 - Right.

11:01 - So a lot of my work focused on the immigration law aspect, r

11:05 - The immigration component, the immigration application proc

11:08 - But of course, in that work,

11:09 - as you're building that foundation of trust with yo

11:13 - and especially where wherever they might be in the pr

11:17 - allows them to, you know, obtain additional benefits,

11:21 - you end up hearing a lot and kind of witnessing a lot of,

11:24 - you know, what they might have e in in their other spheres of lif

11:27 - And so housing is definitely one example of that

11:31 - for many individuals that I serv

11:34 - Language barriers were huge obst

11:37 - to obtaining a services and housing services in particul

11:41 - So, you know, just as an example

11:44 - as someone might be wanting to go and, you know, to

11:48 - apply for

11:49 - housing and the front office or,

11:53 - you know, the renter might not h for example, a language access p

11:57 - And so that means the individual might not receive the applicatio

12:01 - in a language that they understa

12:03 - or they might not have access to interpretation services.

12:06 - And so that individual is alread at a disadvantage from the get g

12:10 - You know, and, you know, that can also be deterrent to tr

12:13 - to kind of move forward and with the process.

12:17 - Fortunately, I was really fortun to work with organizations

12:21 - that provided accompaniment serv whereby someone would go

12:24 - with an individual and assist in, you know, if there weren't a

12:29 - you know, language accommodation for the person with limited Engl

12:33 - proficiency, they would be able to kind of facilitate that.

12:37 - Another hurdle that you might,

12:41 - you know, you might experience is, of course, once you clear th

12:44 - you might be experiencing discri based on your language proficien

12:49 - you might be experiencing a disc based on your national origin,

12:53 - you know, based on a number of different t

12:56 - that, you know, are part of one's identity.

12:58 - And so, you know, it certainly was something that I

13:03 - witnessed in my work with indivi seeking housing.

13:06 - Yeah, absolutely.

13:08 - Could you share maybe some specific examples of

13:13 - types of discrimination would lo for your clients, what they expe

13:18 - Certainly.

13:19 - So there is

13:22 - there is an intersection with th that I do now at the PHRC and ju

13:26 - you know, with the types of disc that the PHC works to address.

13:30 - And so certainly, you know, we

13:34 - I have seen individuals being discriminated against base

13:37 - race, their religion, national origin, sex, familial s

13:42 - and so on.

13:43 - And so certainly, you know that someone who is undocumented, not

13:48 - citizen, is not excluded from ex these other forms of discriminat

13:52 - And so, yeah, And so, for exampl

13:55 - someone might be eligible for subsidized housing or some k

14:00 - you know, a Section eight vouche to apply for for a certain feder

14:04 - funded housing, but be turned aw even though they're eligible

14:09 - because the office, the front of

14:11 - or may not know that they are el

14:15 - And the trouble is, you never know which one it is.

14:17 - Right.

14:18 - And so and the site outside of t certainly someone

14:21 - can be discriminated against bas their immigration status being r

14:25 - We ask for information that they just don't have at the

14:30 - So, yes, certainly I would say the forms

14:34 - discrimination are pretty broad that someone might experience.

14:37 - Yeah, Thank you for sharing those exam

14:40 - I'd like to turn now to talk a little bit about Vala.

14:43 - So you you assisted clients in o

14:46 - legal relief undervalue, which is the Violence Against Wo

14:50 - Can you share with us a little b about what this law is?

14:52 - Is it specifically protections f

14:55 - and not specifically protections for women?

14:59 - You know,

15:00 - anyone can be a victim of domest violence.

15:04 - Anyone can be an abuser,

15:06 - you know, But it is, you know, just in the

15:09 - But the program that came about as a result

15:13 - of the passage of our rights aren't limited to women.

15:16 - It really can assist anyone who has been experiencing

15:21 - domestic violence, sexual assault related

15:24 - And so VAWA, the

15:27 - is a federal law that was signed

15:31 - and has been reauthorized numero over the years, most recently in

15:36 - And really, you know, just gener

15:39 - before we talk about kind of how it impacts, it impacted my work

15:43 - It really signified a shift

15:46 - in the way that we look at domes violence and sexual assault.

15:50 - You know, where by in the past

15:51 - it might have been considered to be a private matter,

15:54 - you know, as a result of grass r advocacy for decades

15:58 - preceding the passage of our ask Congress to adopt a legislature

16:03 - that would specifically address domestic violence, sexual assaul

16:06 - We had we had it signed into law

16:09 - And so a big thing that it did, many other things, was establish

16:13 - the Office on Violence against W which in turn administers

16:17 - a number of grants that continue to be funded today

16:19 - And who and that specifically wo with survivors of domestic

16:23 - violence, sexual assault, interpersonal violence.

16:26 - And and so,

16:29 - you know, a lot of those

16:30 - grants have enabled a number of organiz

16:35 - really on the ground to continue to work more closely of survivor

16:40 - It also brought in an era of collaboration,

16:43 - which I think is incredibly impo between

16:46 - law enforcement, prosecutors.

16:51 - So social service agencies,

16:55 - you know, and I think and we can service advocates,

16:58 - it really, you know, this kind o of a collaborative effort

17:03 - to ensure that individuals who were victimized are, one,

17:07 - informed of their rights, have r in whatever way it looks like to

17:12 - and are able to find stability after leaving

17:16 - an abusive relationship.

17:19 - And and in addition to that, the there are also a number of immig

17:24 - provisions in VAWA, and some of with subsequent amendments.

17:29 - But for example, for individuals who rely on U.S.

17:36 - citizen spouse petitioning for t in order to obtain

17:39 - immigration status, VAWA recogni

17:43 - the possibility of that kind of balance, right.

17:47 - You know, the way that the way the immigration process is struc

17:51 - essentially, there has to be a p

17:53 - and the individual individually petition for.

17:55 - And so it might become easy for a petitioner

17:58 - to hold that over the individual they're petitioning for and so f

18:02 - sought to address that by making so that someone who is married t

18:07 - citizen who is who would have be otherwise eligible to become a l

18:11 - permanent resident by them applying for them can self-pityi

18:15 - and they no longer would require second party when they have been

18:20 - the victim of of domestic violen and as well as later on the U.

18:26 - Visa and as he says, are also opportunities for indiv

18:29 - who are victims of crimes of specific crimes

18:33 - to qualify for

18:35 - a status here in the United Stat

18:37 - as well as individuals who are victims of human traffic

18:40 - And again, that extends it to immigrant com

18:44 - It's not just limited

18:44 - to individuals who are documente or citizens of the United States

18:49 - Yeah, I imagine those those prot are hugely important

18:53 - to folks who have been victims t

18:56 - And to be able to have that stab must be life changing because of

19:02 - I'd like to ask to you to focus more specifically

19:04 - on some of the housing provision within power.

19:07 - Could you tell us a little bit about that? Sure.

19:10 - So valor really, you know, among the many things

19:13 - that it does, it provided protec for federally subsidized tenants

19:17 - So, for example, individuals that have Section eight vouchers

19:20 - or who reside in public housing.

19:22 - And so it makes it so that someo wouldn't be able to be turned aw

19:26 - or evicted because of their stat as a as a domestic violence surv

19:31 - A Similarly, you wouldn't be a you would be able to excuse me,

19:36 - but you would be able to request an emergency transfer,

19:39 - you know, or be allowed to reloc because of,

19:44 - you know, a domestic violence si in a bizarre situation.

19:48 - And also, there is an opportunit to request a lease of bifurcatio

19:53 - Essentially removing the perpetrator of violence from

19:59 - And so there are a number of pro in that sense for survivors of d

20:02 - violence and housing.

20:04 - There's been a lot of rhetoric a immigration in the United States

20:08 - and a lot of divisive opinions

20:10 - based on your work with the individuals that you se

20:12 - and what you saw of the experien within the immigration system.

20:16 - Is there anything that you think our viewers should know?

20:19 - Certainly.

20:21 - I think that, you know, we live in this era

20:24 - of just access to a wealth of in

20:28 - But what that does in turn is it

20:31 - makes it the opportunity for misinformati

20:35 - to occur more,

20:38 - more quickly, be spread more rap

20:40 - And so I guess really, you know, it's so important.

20:44 - So so I guess I have two message

20:47 - One is for the communities of in

20:50 - who are, you know, undocumented, maybe don't have stable status,

20:54 - who are non-citizens, who may be experiencing,

20:58 - you know,

21:00 - discrimination,

21:02 - you know, and who may be interested, for e

21:04 - in coming to the page or seats who report what's happening to t

21:09 - Certainly, I would say, you know, it's important to come

21:13 - I think it's important to know that that you are you have right

21:17 - no matter regardless of your sta

21:19 - I'm here in the United States, y and among those rights is, you k

21:23 - you have the right to be protect from unlawful discrimination.

21:27 - Of course, if there are any conc relating to immigration status

21:30 - and outside of discrimination, if there's any kind of informati

21:34 - that is being spread that you're concerned about as i

21:39 - here, immigration status, it is incredibly important

21:41 - to reach out to a trusted immigration services provider,

21:45 - you know, who can advise you on the best course of action.

21:50 - And I think

21:51 - for and similarly for individual who aren't in that position,

21:56 - but who may be hearing a certain about who

22:01 - who comprise this, the immigrati the immigrant community,

22:05 - again, I think, you know, immigr

22:07 - are such an amazing, valuable

22:10 - part of our commonwealth who have made amazing contributi

22:15 - And I think, you know, the information is out there on

22:19 - you know, economic strength, on the spending power of immigra

22:24 - on all the ways that they've made Pennsylvania b

22:26 - And so, again, just really encouraging individu

22:29 - to continue to inform themselves and not be afraid

22:31 - to have difficult conversations and to learn from them.

22:35 - Yeah, absolutely.

22:36 - Absolutely.

22:38 - I'd like to shift gears now and ask you to talk a little bit

22:41 - about your work as a hearing examiner at PHRC.

22:45 - How is serving in this role diff than advocating on behalf of a c

22:51 - Yes, it certainly has been diffe

22:54 - It's something that I continue to learn something new every day

22:58 - Certainly as a as a hearing exam

23:01 - because you are essentially an independent adjudicator.

23:04 - So, you know, you take on a more neutral role,

23:08 - a facilitative role, as opposed to being kind of the advocate re

23:12 - you know, storm into court and, you know, defend your client.

23:16 - And so I think it really has bee

23:21 - it really has been different in its nature

23:24 - But I think it's certainly something that one has suited my

23:28 - just myself, my primary personal

23:30 - And it just kind of me, my state

23:32 - But but I don't think that it di in the sense that,

23:36 - you know, at the end of the day,

23:37 - you're working alongside individ that are all having,

23:41 - you know, the goal is to provide

23:44 - you know, justice, to seek justi for someone who has been wronged

23:48 - And so, you know, in my role, how do we get there?

23:52 - And it's to ensure that due process is had, that in

23:56 - are going through this process, they have the opportunity to be

24:00 - and that whatever decision comes from a public hearing, for

24:04 - whatever recommendation comes of takes into account, you know, ev

24:09 - you know, just in in an independ manner, in a trauma informed man

24:16 - And just like

24:17 - in a in a manner that I really f

24:20 - the the goals of the PRC.

24:23 - So we've talked a lot about some of the broader issues

24:26 - within the immigration system, b would you be willing to share an

24:30 - stories about how gaining legal has impacted your clients lives?

24:35 - Yes, I think it's incredibly imp

24:37 - So it was hard to really think a just one story,

24:41 - just because I seen and, you kno sometimes it doesn't

24:45 - even get to the point where someone obtains legal stat

24:49 - A lot of times in their process someone might receive work autho

24:53 - And that in and of itself

24:55 - is life changing for someone, fo who might have an application pe

24:59 - And the U.S.

25:00 - government says, okay, in the in because we know these applicatio

25:03 - take a long time here, you know, you can have work authorization,

25:07 - we can work lawfully, you know, and and you

25:12 - be gainfully employed in the com

25:15 - And that opens a number of doors from being able to access a driv

25:20 - license, having ID individuals with minor

25:24 - You know, might some even other can't work.

25:26 - You know, they now have photo ID you know,

25:29 - specific to the United States.

25:32 - And so really and just really li

25:36 - the burden of having that those the instability,

25:41 - the concerns that you might get by immigration enforcement,

25:47 - maybe it might open up opportunities for employment

25:50 - that may not have been available to someone without work authoriz

25:54 - And so and, of course, you know, eventually when someon

25:57 - to a point where they have, you know, lawful status,

26:00 - they might be able to bring fami and they might be able to,

26:05 - you know, go back to school or, you know, a lot of my clients.

26:09 - That was your number one goal.

26:10 - I want to go back to school. And so I've witnessed

26:14 - I've witnessed just the changes

26:17 - you know, just mentally, emotion

26:21 - you know, how empowering that ca

26:24 - And I and I've been so fortunate to kind of witness

26:28 - some of these journeys, you know that individuals have experience

26:32 - maybe having met me at a domesti shelter to now, you know,

26:37 - owning your own home and your children are off to col

26:39 - It's really it really is amazing and life ch

26:42 - Well, I could talk with you all

26:45 - but I'm afraid our time is about

26:48 - So. Hearing examiner Shattuck, thank you so much for taking the

26:52 - to come and share with us on the

26:54 - Help us learn a little bit more about the work that, that you,

26:59 - you did previously as an advocat and now as a hearing examiner.

27:03 - I have learned a lot.

27:04 - So thank you.

27:05 - Thank you so much for having me.

27:07 - Pleasure. Absolutely.

27:09 - I would also like to thank our v for spending their afternoon

27:12 - learning with us.

27:13 - If you believe that you've exper housing discrimination

27:16 - or would like to learn more about housing protections in Pen

27:20 - give us a call at PHRC’s Fair Ho

27:22 - 98558665718.

27:27 - You can also find us at our website on the screen whi

27:31 - dot dot gov slash

27:34 - and slash agencies slash p h rc.

27:39 - You can also keep up with our wo on Facebook, Instagram, X,

27:43 - YouTube and LinkedIn.

27:45 - And remember, our communities ar when everyone has a place to cal

27:49 - We'll see you next time.

27:53 - This program has been paid for by the sponsor and does not

27:56 - the views of PCN.