00:03 - And today we're going to have a roundtable

00:05 - with the students who were the backbone of the research

00:10 - part of this.

00:11 - This project.

00:13 - So instead of just introducing them all, they're going

00:16 - to each introduce themselves.

00:18 - Or I'll just say quickly.

00:19 - Caleb Becker George and Leslie

00:24 - Elizabeth and Elizabeth McCreary

00:27 - and Elena Fry, Of course, they did that all out of order.

00:31 - pay attention again and we'll let them do their talk

00:35 - about their experiences, and then we'll save the questions

00:37 - for the AG, if that's okay.

00:39 - All right.

00:39 - So we'll let them take it away

00:44 - this time.

00:46 - My undergraduate student iu P getting degrees in history in anthropology.

00:51 - She with sort of certificates in public history, museum

00:55 - studies, cultural competencies or things.

00:57 - So yeah, I got I joined the Untold Stories problem,

01:03 - The Untold Stories Project a little bit, and I got recruited doing a field school

01:06 - and it was very exciting work.

01:08 - My name is Elena Frei.

01:09 - I'm a graduate student at AP, studying applied archeology.

01:12 - I started in the same spring semester that this project started.

01:16 - So I got started a couple of months into the project.

01:19 - My undergraduate degrees in international relations and history.

01:23 - So I was looking for an opportunity to get more involved

01:26 - in research on campus, and it was a really cool opportunity

01:29 - to kind of bridge that gap for me between history and archeology.

01:33 - And let me sort of combine those interests a little bit.

01:36 - I'm a Lashley also a grad student IPA, and applied archeology.

01:40 - I did my undergrad at Purdue University

01:43 - in anthropology and classical studies.

01:46 - And not only was I part of this project, it ended up being my thesis as well.

01:50 - So I am intimately aware of the details of the site at this point.

01:53 - So and we're just wrapping that up.

01:55 - I'm doing some of my last data analysis and it's

01:58 - almost all written so excited to hopefully get that out there soon.

02:03 - And I'm Elizabeth McCreary.

02:05 - I graduated from undergrad and from Dickinson College with degrees

02:09 - in History and Earth Sciences and continued with graduate studies

02:15 - at IFP with the Master's in the Applied Archeology program.

02:19 - Currently, I'm finishing up my thesis,

02:21 - which is on a geophysical survey of a friend friendly fire incident,

02:25 - as well as finishing up my first season with the National Park Service

02:29 - at the Statue of Liberty National Monument as a park ranger

02:32 - there. So,

02:37 - so for a little context, I'm guessing

02:39 - almost everybody here was just at the lunch session.

02:41 - But this site is just outside of Johnstown,

02:44 - up on top of the mountain in Laurel Hills State Park.

02:49 - It was inhabited for at least 150 years

02:53 - from the early 1800s up until the 1970s, sixties and seventies.

02:59 - And so you can see on these maps where that is at.

03:03 - And then we all got recruited to work with our professors

03:08 - and the parks to try to create a history

03:12 - and a backstory that they could use to educate the public about this site.

03:15 - And we're going to tell you a little bit about the research that each of us did

03:18 - and some of the things that we took away from it

03:20 - and the opportunities that it gave us.

03:25 - So last year, Kayla and I were able to travel to John's

03:29 - town and collect some of the resources that Elaine has gathered over the years.

03:33 - Elaine was one of the speakers in the last session.

03:34 - She's a local historian who had a ton of documentation about the site.

03:38 - She had birth and death records, photographs, paintings and

03:44 - newspaper clippings, as well as personal correspondence

03:46 - between her and other people interested in the project.

03:49 - She collected those into two binders that had she'd organize them some,

03:53 - but we didn't have a very clear index of what was included in them.

03:57 - And so Kaylee and I were able to scan those and put together sort of an index.

04:03 - Dr. Ford asked us to create an index.

04:05 - And what he visualized, what we visualize, were very different

04:08 - because we had read through two full binders of information

04:12 - covering 20 years of correspondence and almost 200 years of history,

04:16 - and had realized like just a traditional index like you find at the end of the

04:19 - book, was going to get nobody anywhere.

04:22 - Do you want to talk a little bit about it?

04:25 - When we started the index, we

04:27 - were seeing all these names and we were entirely sure

04:29 - if we wanted to just start pulling stuff out and giving page numbers.

04:31 - So and so we created a whole list.

04:34 - Every document we listed, every like all the names on

04:37 - them, important names, important keywords that could be used in a search.

04:40 - And we had its picture up there.

04:42 - We had an Excel spreadsheet that had multiple tabs for each individual

04:45 - type of document that all had separate indexing systems, and it took hours.

04:50 - But we found when it came time to do research

04:53 - that it ended up being very useful for grad students

04:57 - to put stuff in and just be able to search and find documents

05:02 - pretty quickly instead of documents saved my life.

05:06 - Every time I'm like, Who's this person?

05:08 - Where are the documents for this?

05:09 - Elaine's work is massive.

05:12 - There's so much good information, but it's hard to find.

05:14 - So I can just go to the document I can control and I can find what I need.

05:17 - It's been incredible. Yeah.

05:18 - Especially after reading the binders. That was kind of our goal.

05:21 - We started sort of like listing and we realized just like a simple, like,

05:26 - like I said, like a traditional index was just not going to give us

05:29 - be able to let us communicate the detail about each document that we wanted.

05:32 - So it's basically a table of contents plus lots of things.

05:38 - And you'll see on this next slide why these are

05:41 - this index is even more important

05:43 - because we're going to show you like a family tree.

05:44 - Yes, I'm I can discuss that, but you'll see why

05:47 - this index is very as detailed as it is.

05:51 - One of the things we included was

05:52 - names of any people that were specifically mentioned in each document.

05:56 - So one of the recurring names in a lot of them is Edinburgh Smith.

05:59 - And so like mentioning any time he came up in a document,

06:03 - made it easier to sort through and find where he was, whether it was a census

06:06 - record, a birth, an obituary, anything like that.

06:13 - So yeah,

06:14 - that's why we needed a lot of indexing, because this family is wide.

06:18 - Most of families had five or six kids

06:21 - and those are just the ones that make it into the census.

06:23 - So there's probably a lot more who aren't necessarily surviving to that age.

06:27 - So my research for this

06:29 - project very much circled around the family tree list,

06:32 - helped me a little bit in the beginning before she got more into the maps.

06:36 - And so we ended up being able to kind of work together

06:38 - and put this kind of as a story map on the site.

06:40 - So you can kind of people can move around and view the family tree as kind of

06:44 - an interactive thing, which I think is really cool.

06:48 - But this just

06:48 - it started kind of a very similar project to them, just supposed to be an index.

06:52 - You know, every time we go through the book,

06:54 - there'd be through Alan's binder, there would be like,

06:56 - this person is related to this person, a sister, a brother, a mother or father,

07:00 - and it started and there's a lot of repeat names.

07:02 - There's like a dozen John Smiths, and sometimes they're in no way related

07:06 - to each other. So

07:09 - we needed a way that we could quickly figure out who was who.

07:11 - And so I got put on creating

07:13 - this family tree and quickly realized that just going through the binder

07:17 - wasn't going to be enough because these relationships

07:19 - are very complicated and sometimes you think

07:23 - you've just found a new person out of nowhere.

07:25 - There's one situation where someone marries in and talking to a descendant.

07:28 - It turns out that

07:29 - this guy actually just changed his name to a completely new last name, not really

07:33 - any other last name on this tree.

07:34 - And so he's actually in there twice

07:36 - because we have him marrying someone from the site.

07:37 - But he's also a son of someone from the site.

07:39 - So there's a lot of situations like this where we just needed additional research.

07:43 - So I started using several websites, including places that people do a lot of

07:47 - traditional genealogy, like ancestry.com, find a grave, stuff like that, trying

07:51 - to just get the broadest tree possible, which I think was pretty successful.

07:59 - And yeah, and we we tried to also take it

08:03 - pretty much as far to the present as we could without getting into people

08:06 - who are likely still actual a lot of people born

08:10 - around the early 1900s so that we could, if people are descendants,

08:13 - come to us and we say like, who was who is your grandparents?

08:16 - We can very quickly figure out how they're related to this family,

08:19 - which I think has been a really great tool.

08:21 - And a lot of times also we can just show them this and

08:24 - like in that example, they can be like, actually, you know, this person

08:27 - had this other relationship

08:28 - and we can quickly add people to this history, which is really great.

08:33 - So in addition to this, some of the research I did early on

08:35 - was a couple of watershed contexts,

08:38 - which is something we do for one of our classes at IEP.

08:41 - It's something that we'll do

08:41 - a lot in archeology at the beginning of a project to kind of a mix

08:45 - of an environmental background and also the indigenous people in an area.

08:49 - And we break it up by watershed because that's kind of a natural boundary.

08:53 - If you did it by, you know, county or township or some other area

08:57 - that's, you know, a manmade distinction.

08:59 - And that wouldn't necessarily have existed a thousand years ago.

09:03 - So typically, at least in Pennsylvania, we use watersheds.

09:07 - And with the site being on

09:08 - top of a mountain, it basically straddles two different watersheds.

09:12 - So water on one side is going one direction, one on the other side.

09:14 - So for a class I had already done one of the watersheds

09:17 - that this site interacts with.

09:19 - So Dr.

09:19 - Ford asked me to write the other watersheds.

09:22 - So it was a great opportunity to kind of look at all of the indigenous sites

09:25 - in the area, see which time periods they're from, where they're located.

09:31 - Are they on the rivers,

09:32 - are they up in the hills and try to get just a general idea of the indigenous

09:35 - since like they were talking about in there, there's not a lot

09:39 - of historical documentation.

09:41 - And then since I was also doing the family tree that very easily clicked together

09:45 - because at that earliest generation you have those stories about, you know,

09:50 - Edinburgh Smith being married to Native American women, stories like that.

09:52 - So trying to figure out how those people might have played into those

09:56 - archeological sites was really cool for me.

09:58 - And then if you want to go to the next slide,

10:02 - one thing that I just want to add, Emma, is being modest.

10:05 - This family tree.

10:06 - Like, I think it was actually more difficult

10:08 - with both of us being on it at the same time.

10:10 - So we would constantly have to go to each other and be like,

10:12 - Is this the person you just found or am I looking at somebody different?

10:16 - I almost think having one person on it made it a little bit because we were

10:20 - we weren't sure if we were ever overlapping.

10:22 - It was very hard to tell if we were overlapping

10:24 - because so many of the names were the same and she went way farther,

10:29 - even in color coding this thing to to determine certain relation.

10:32 - So just for Emma's sake, like the work put into

10:35 - this, it was so detailed. So

10:39 - but I'll let you

10:41 - well, very much because of that after doing

10:43 - the family tree, I got very attached to this family.

10:46 - They're so interesting.

10:48 - There's so many interesting stories, a lot of murders, a lot of there's

10:53 - a story about some supposed treasure, all kinds of interesting stories.

10:56 - And like, you get really attached to people

10:58 - when you're going through a census every ten years of their lives.

11:01 - And you see that, you know,

11:03 - the children didn't make it to the next census

11:05 - and you start to get really attached to these people.

11:07 - So when I went to doctor for it, I was asking, Hey,

11:09 - like I need a thesis idea.

11:11 - I know I want to do something historic.

11:13 - I'd like to maybe do some

11:14 - PR because that's a skill that I'd like to learn a little more about.

11:17 - And he listed a bunch of stuff and he's like,

11:20 - Why don't you just do more with this site?

11:22 - And I was like, Absolutely.

11:23 - I've already done the background research check.

11:25 - Not that it ever ends up being that simple.

11:29 - So for my additional research, for my thesis, I focused specifically

11:35 - on the cemetery because that felt like a good way to work in that family tree.

11:40 - As I mentioned earlier, there's only two headstones up there,

11:43 - John Smith and John Brown, because they were both Civil War veterans.

11:47 - So they both have those military issued headstones.

11:52 - There's a lot of other stones up there, just like field stones,

11:55 - which there's a lot of bedrock up there.

11:57 - It's very hard to tell what might be a marker, what might not be a marker.

12:01 - Some are much larger than others.

12:03 - So is that related to, you know, infant versus adult burials?

12:08 - So I want to take the wrap there and try to see if we could get any idea

12:11 - of what's under the ground,

12:12 - because if, you know, we have a smaller stone,

12:14 - maybe we can match that with a smaller potential burial.

12:16 - So quite a few of the people here helped me lug this equipment.

12:21 - You see up the mountain,

12:22 - it's about 45 minute hike off trail with what's basically a wheelbarrow.

12:27 - So every time you get to a tree

12:28 - stump, you've got to lift it up, lift it over a branch.

12:31 - It was it was quite a day of exercise.

12:34 - And we ran the equipment up there.

12:36 - And I'm still working through all the details of the data

12:39 - because it's it's quiet with 150 years of individuals being buried here.

12:43 - It's quite disturbed soil, which makes it a little hard to interpret.

12:49 - Basically, the system sends radar into the ground.

12:51 - They bounce off of things in the ground and then they're received by an antenna.

12:55 - So if there's changes to the soil, like someone dug

12:58 - a big pit, you can kind of see where that's happened.

13:02 - So it doesn't tell us

13:03 - exactly where a burial is, but it can tell us where some disturbed soil

13:07 - is, which in a cemetery you can make some educated guesses.

13:11 - So trying to line that up with where the headstones are,

13:15 - if it lines up with historical research and some of the other stuff we've done.

13:20 - I also then the reason that you saw the family tree color coded is

13:24 - I went through all of the individuals in that family tree and located

13:27 - where if they had a historical record that said where they were buried,

13:30 - whether that was a newspaper article, whether that was an obituary.

13:34 - And then in the early 1900s, you start to get death records.

13:37 - And what I found him,

13:38 - that tree is a lot of individuals were not being buried up there.

13:42 - So I started to do even more historical research on these people

13:45 - as well as like some statistical research to try to see if I could tell

13:49 - why some people are being buried up there and why some people aren't.

13:53 - So some trends like women are slightly more likely to be buried off a mountain,

13:58 - especially when they grew up on the mountain.

14:00 - Makes me think there might be situations where people are getting married

14:03 - and then they're being buried with their spouses, family,

14:05 - things like that that make sense.

14:07 - Also, noticeably 40% of the individuals

14:10 - I found up there in the historical record were under the age of three years old.

14:14 - And when you think about the fact that you're not always going to record,

14:17 - probably every infant death in Johnstown,

14:20 - you're not necessarily filling out those records all the time.

14:24 - It seems that probably

14:26 - a good amount of the burials up there represent probably young individuals.

14:30 - So some very interesting research up there.

14:37 - You so

14:40 - as we kind of talked about earlier, I started the project

14:44 - kind of helping Emma with the family tree and working on Ancestry.

14:49 - And as we were going, we realized how big of a task that was

14:52 - and we started filling out more and more of these narratives.

14:55 - As we mentioned, we have a narrative on women, we have a general context

15:00 - narrative, and then we have a landscape narrative.

15:03 - And so it quickly kind of became noticed as well.

15:06 - We had one other student in the geography department working on these,

15:12 - what we called story maps or GIS geographic information system maps,

15:18 - and it became apparent that that was going to be

15:20 - an overwhelming amount of work for one student.

15:23 - I approached Dr.

15:24 - Ford and was like, Hey, Dr.

15:26 - Ford, I have some experience with GIs.

15:29 - I like I said, my undergrad was in Earth Sciences,

15:32 - so I had taken several G.I.s

15:34 - courses and felt pretty comfortable using some of these softwares.

15:37 - So I was like, Would you like me to help Eric,

15:39 - who Christina had mentioned earlier?

15:44 - And so Eric and I began working on these story maps together.

15:48 - There were several challenges with these story

15:51 - maps because, as you can tell, the family tree was progressing.

15:54 - So was the other research.

15:56 - So every time Eric and I would kind of go to make something, something

15:59 - would change.

16:01 - So editing

16:02 - these maps progressively as we went, I think we worked straight up

16:06 - to end on the maps like through November,

16:09 - like to the deadline of when these things were due.

16:13 - And I have these pictures here.

16:14 - I know Chris was kind of showing you the final products,

16:17 - that image on the top, right.

16:18 - I kind of like showing

16:19 - just because it shows you on our editing and what we were seeing those

16:23 - the things on the left hand side were what we kind of called widgets.

16:27 - And so you would

16:28 - you could add in different components to your story map with those widgets.

16:33 - So like if you wanted to add in a video, we have that drone footage of the video.

16:37 - If you wanted to add in maps, whether this be a static

16:40 - aerial image, like a map that's already there, you could do that.

16:44 - The other cool thing with the map

16:45 - making process was that some of these were made by us.

16:49 - So these maps that you're seeing, they're not just static maps,

16:53 - they're ones that we have gone online and used either GPS points

16:57 - or we had used photographs to say, this was an old road,

17:01 - we can map it out this far.

17:03 - So we create that's what the left image on the bottom is, was like

17:06 - all the different kinds of roads we had, whether it was like a lean

17:10 - or that herringbone road or whatever it may be.

17:12 - We can now draw a polygon ourselves because they're no longer there.

17:17 - So we draw that in and now it becomes visible on a map.

17:22 - And with these maps

17:23 - in with on like within a story, maps, you can zoom in and out.

17:26 - And because it's aerial imagery already on there, it kind of shows you

17:30 - what the landscape looks like today with like overlapping

17:34 - with like where those features would have been in the past.

17:38 - So that was kind of the really cool part, was making

17:40 - these maps in the thought process behind it was that it's interactive

17:45 - so you could look at it from a present perspective and a past perspective,

17:48 - depending on what map you were looking at.

17:52 - And like we said, we had those aerial images

17:54 - where you could like slide it left or right, so it would show you

17:57 - what it looked like in the past versus what it looks like years after that,

18:02 - which, like we said, with the accessibility issue,

18:04 - this made it really interesting for descendants to be able to now

18:08 - look at this and be like, okay, this is what we recognize it as being this

18:13 - or recognize it as being this.

18:14 - But now, hey, this is what it looks like today.

18:16 - They're able to kind of see that without having to go to the site.

18:22 - But that was that was kind of our process with that.

18:25 - But those maps were continually changing as we kept finding more

18:28 - and more information.

18:29 - And the family tree was neat.

18:31 - We mentioned geo referencing and putting things in places to line up.

18:35 - The cool thing with like a family tree is you can take an image like that

18:39 - and put no imagery behind it and, just put it in random space,

18:43 - but it'll still be a map.

18:44 - Then it allows you to interact with it and zoom in.

18:47 - If we wanted, if we ever wanted, you can always put like pop ups with them

18:52 - so that if you click on a name, there could be information that comes up.

18:55 - There's several opportunities for things to regress with that kind of stuff.

19:00 - That's what makes these maps so cool is when you click on something,

19:03 - it could bring up a pop up or a video

19:05 - or a link to something else or provide further information.

19:09 - So again, these maps aren't just static.

19:11 - It gives you kind of this 3D representation.

19:14 - There's more to it than just just looking at a plain and simple 2D map.

19:18 - So Liz and I kind of broke the software a couple of times being like,

19:22 - Can we make it do this?

19:23 - And we take it to Eric or Chris?

19:25 - And they'd be like, I don't think it does that.

19:26 - And we're like, I think I think I think we can make you work on it,

19:30 - which is kind of what happened to the family too.

19:32 - We're like, we want to make something interactive

19:33 - that you can kind of move through because it's such you can't there's no way

19:36 - you can put that all in one place and have someone get all the details.

19:39 - So we just kind of messed around with it till we figure it out.

19:42 - And Liz is very good at that creative thinking and it is a fun project.

19:46 - Well, it's it's interesting

19:48 - you bring that up, though, too, because like I've used story maps

19:51 - since undergrad and even in the four years that I've been using it,

19:55 - they update how street maps work, like the one that I used in undergrad.

19:59 - That's not even an option anymore.

20:02 - So like learning to progressively

20:04 - use these things is really interesting and it can be fun to play with.

20:07 - But again, it's going to like how many hours would it take

20:09 - us to just find out how to get an image uploaded onto the thing too long,

20:14 - Probably 2 hours to simply upload that one image of that family tree.

20:17 - Once you have it, it's easy.

20:20 - But like playing with it takes time.

20:23 - You have to kind of be patient with technology. It's a great thing.

20:25 - But you know, patience, you have to have patience with it.

20:29 - So but

20:31 - what Kaylee kind of around this out here is

20:35 - so this project is really impactful for me as an undergraduate student

20:39 - because I went into this having just switched my major.

20:41 - I had just gotten out of my field school

20:44 - and I had up until that point,

20:46 - I believed that field work was going to be the end all, be all for me.

20:50 - And then I discovered that it wasn't quite exactly what I wanted to do.

20:54 - And so getting to work on this project

20:56 - and getting to work on that index in particular

20:58 - got me a lot of experience with the documents

21:00 - and organizing documents and understanding that aspect of it.

21:03 - And it also got me deeply involved in local history.

21:05 - And so not long after I started volunteering

21:07 - at our local historical society and I'm still there volunteering regularly

21:11 - as our volunteer curator at the moment, working on our collection.

21:14 - And so it really changed my perspective on

21:18 - what it meant to be involved in history.

21:20 - Because I came into college as an education major,

21:22 - I was going to be a teacher and I decided that also it wasn't for me and

21:27 - so I had this whole process, an evolution,

21:31 - and it came down to this one opportunity I had in my undergraduate.

21:35 - And there's untold Stories Project, and it really sparked a passion

21:39 - and history for me.

21:40 - And I think that I which help

21:44 - undergraduate students all over get chances like this, opportunities

21:47 - like this because it is so beneficial and so wonderful.

21:51 - And I've learned so much about the area because I grew up in Indiana.

21:54 - My dad works in Johnstown.

21:56 - It's a stone's hour away and I didn't know any of this.

21:58 - And it was just incredibly, incredibly beneficial.

22:02 - And I've been extremely grateful for this project and everything it's done for me.

22:07 - I think one of the things we all learned like this was in credit

22:11 - to whoever had this being so interdisciplinary,

22:15 - it was both beneficial and challenging in some ways

22:18 - because we all were in different departments

22:21 - in those meetings, like we I think we've only met Dr.

22:24 - Music, Connie and Dr.

22:25 - Coughlin over Zoom right until today, pretty much

22:29 - so Everything we've been doing with it

22:31 - being so interdisciplinary, the communication has had to be like spot.

22:35 - When you're working with so many different departments and so many people.

22:39 - So like even me going to meet Eric, like finding a meet up point

22:43 - because his schedule

22:43 - is completely different from mine because he's in a different department

22:47 - and finding this like consensus in a meet up place

22:49 - or when you're dealing with technology, it's like, well, can we even meet on Zoom

22:53 - or do we can we like we kind of have to meet in person

22:56 - because it's hard to share screens and mess with this kind

23:00 - of a software and like how it worked without meeting in person.

23:04 - So like I think for all of us

23:05 - and everybody can speak to their own experiences on this part

23:08 - if they want, like this interdisciplinary approach.

23:11 - It was fantastic.

23:12 - We learn a lot from it, but it did have its challenges

23:14 - that we all had to overcome.

23:17 - I think I was meeting up with Eric sometimes it like six or 8:00, like 8:00

23:20 - at night, sometimes after depending on when he had class or when I had class.

23:24 - So like

23:25 - and then reporting back to the professors because we're kind of like the middle

23:28 - people, right, as students. So we're like reporting back to them.

23:31 - And if they want something, we have to go back and then do it again

23:33 - and then report it to the person

23:34 - we're working with to be like, Hey, they kind of want this, or, you know,

23:38 - So the communication was really, really interesting for this project

23:42 - in terms of final deliverables, too.

23:43 - We had Kaylee worked on some of the narratives that were written for that

23:48 - final, the sort of interactive web page that is public facing.

23:53 - And I got to work an annotated bibliography,

23:55 - but with multiple departments we to choose the citation style,

23:58 - which is everybody's favorite task, and just sort of like standardize

24:03 - not only those writing styles but making it

24:05 - like just sort of bringing the all together in that way.

24:07 - So you hadn't really thought about before with the interdisciplinary approach.

24:11 - I do miss Chicago sometimes, though, like I was advocating for in the maps.

24:16 - Eric Coming from a geography department, me coming from the archeology department,

24:20 - how we approached making these maps was different.

24:24 - We already had with like history and anthropology.

24:27 - We have very different ways of approaching history as it turns out.

24:30 - And so I think that's why when Dr.

24:32 - Ford told me to make an index, I was like, What do you mean?

24:35 - Because I think we had very different ideas

24:37 - on what you really need an index for, for document research.

24:41 - Okay,

24:43 - I, i your face when we showed you our spreadsheet is just like,

24:46 - locked in my brain.

24:48 - It took way too much.

24:51 - I think it was great to see our professors from the different departments

24:55 - work together too, because it's kind of interest

24:57 - because we basically half the meetings we went to is just us

25:00 - sitting there listening to them discuss what the next steps are.

25:02 - And it was great to see that collaboration and kind of

25:06 - like even with conferences like that, it's been a great opportunity

25:08 - for us to kind of see how they structure the research,

25:11 - how they work together, and kind of see how like that system should work.

25:16 - So it's been very educational in that format too,

25:18 - because I feel like a students, we very rarely get that

25:20 - peek behind this curtain and this was curtains wide open.

25:22 - Like we got to see the entire process from start to finish, which was very helpful,

25:27 - I would say is the first time I ever got to edit my professors work and stuff

25:30 - the other way around. I found that greatly entertaining

25:34 - and I'm sure it is

25:36 - so like the opportunities, the opportunities this provides us with now,

25:39 - because now we can say, okay, we've made story maps, we've done

25:44 - in-depth historical research, not just historical, but genealogical.

25:48 - We've dealt with primary source documents, secondary sources,

25:51 - whatever you can think of, like this

25:52 - really opens doors for us as students to be able to go and say to people,

25:56 - Hey, we know how to do this and we've done this.

25:59 - We've had supervision, but kind of we were kind of sent off to like

26:03 - do it on our own and then report back with it eventually.

26:05 - But, you know, the responsibility of that and I do appreciate them entrusting us

26:10 - like it felt really kind of nice to have that responsibility in that trust

26:14 - to just go out and do that.

26:15 - And like I said, playing with these maps like we had free reign to do

26:19 - whatever we wanted with those maps and it like not to do whatever wanted.

26:23 - There were things that they wanted on them,

26:25 - but to be able to play with them

26:26 - as much as we did, to be like, Hey, could we try this?

26:29 - And then be like, See what it looks like?

26:32 - And, you know, maybe it worked, maybe it didn't, but

26:35 - just the opportunities it creates in the future,

26:36 - I hope that that continues for students as well. So

26:42 - like anybody else, if we're going

26:47 - open it up to questions now, Steve, first.

26:51 - Okay, one to anybody else.

26:54 - Three, if you just in the class,

26:58 - this is exactly how you do it in class is played plain it.

27:01 - Yeah.

27:02 - So thanks group for sharing the project about this project and

27:06 - one of the things that I'm wondering about.

27:08 - So the question for you and then I have a very specific question here.

27:11 - So with this kind of project, one of the things that's always

27:16 - exciting and challenging

27:18 - is the things that you can't figure out.

27:21 - And so I'm wondering, as you've been doing this project, are there

27:24 - things that you see sort of as mysteries, things

27:27 - that you're really wondering about, things that are sort of

27:31 - you wish that you could find some evidence to help you answer that question?

27:36 - And then my very specific question is,

27:38 - with a predominantly African-American community like this,

27:42 - one of the things that I'm thinking about and looking for is religion or church

27:47 - or is there any kind of where are these people doing religion?

27:55 - I the cemetery is really interesting to me.

27:58 - Like, your whole thesis is very interesting and like having

28:01 - seen some of the data that you have like I have more questions

28:05 - after seeing some of the ground penetrating radar and

28:08 - having been in the cemetery like it's it's a very beautiful setting, but it's also,

28:14 - you know, knowing the history of the site more recently like

28:17 - it is, I don't even have words for the questions.

28:20 - I have just sort of sort of like figuring out who was there

28:24 - and the best way to honor the people that are buried there.

28:27 - And I think step one is understanding who is there.

28:29 - And that's part of why I cannot wait for your this is to do the things

28:34 - I was going to say in the research, and I've talked to them about this

28:38 - Elizabeth Hershberger, who doctor who brought up

28:41 - I found the research on her to be the most interesting to me

28:45 - because you could see she had so many roles in a sense,

28:49 - but you couldn't figure out what was how

28:51 - it was all based off like one or two census records for that.

28:55 - Like it's and then you're going based off Leon's kind of like the, the oral history

28:59 - type things or things like that.

29:00 - So piecing things together.

29:02 - But I'd say definitely the really early

29:06 - ancestors, like the

29:07 - really early people that were there on the settlement,

29:10 - you barely have records for.

29:14 - And that's just the reality of it, because they are African-Americans

29:17 - and how they were taking census records then were not

29:21 - what they are now or what they were documenting.

29:24 - It wasn't a like standardized way of documenting

29:28 - really at that time, especially with that kind of a settlement

29:32 - we don't know a lot.

29:33 - There's a lot we're missing from that early stuff.

29:35 - This is just our best interpretation of it with what we have.

29:40 - But I think there's a lot of lacking documents

29:44 - in the early and that just might be how it is, unfortunately,

29:47 - and kind of coming to terms with that and being like,

29:50 - this is the best we can do.

29:51 - But like me wanting to be like, but I want to know like the true story

29:55 - behind that because she seems like such a interesting and cool and dynamic person.

29:59 - But this is what we have to work with and we don't want to stretch it, right?

30:03 - You don't want to spread false information or anything either.

30:06 - So it's it's one of those things

30:08 - we just kind of have to come to terms with that. But

30:12 - Yeah, I think this project has made me more comfortable

30:14 - than any other project I've been on with How much you can't ever know or can't ever

30:19 - substantiate, especially with, like you're saying, the oral history aspect of it.

30:22 - Like I'm a person that coming

30:25 - like when someone tells me we have this story about this,

30:28 - I immediately want to go run and find a record that backs that up.

30:32 - And like

30:33 - sometimes you just have to trust that that's that's also good documentation.

30:38 - Like that story

30:39 - is to some extent true and that's what you go off of.

30:42 - And also, like I know that family tree is not 100% accurate.

30:46 - I know there's all kinds of things like there's several censuses

30:49 - that have some people as a person's grandchild

30:52 - and in the next census, their child and also someone living with them

30:56 - as a renter who later the kids use that last name as their father.

31:00 - So there's all kinds of relationships you're just never going to be good at.

31:03 - But you could you could just barely see it and just learning that at some point

31:07 - you have to stop and move on to the next person was definitely a challenge.

31:10 - Early on, I was spending way

31:11 - too much time on each person, which definitely comes out in my thesis.

31:15 - I did a whole section on just talking about individual people because I just

31:18 - I wanted to tell some of those stories I was finding

31:20 - and have an excuse to really dig into some of those.

31:23 - But it was, yeah, definitely getting comfortable with not being able

31:26 - to tell the whole story.

31:27 - But then also like trying to build this bigger narrative, like there's a hint here

31:31 - and there's a hint here, Is there something I can do with that was

31:35 - and then religion wise.

31:38 - So I'm getting some hints from the cemetery.

31:41 - Like mentioned, everything faces north and traditionally east.

31:45 - West burials are quite common in the Christian religion

31:48 - because there's an idea of facing towards Zion.

31:52 - But also in a lot of African traditions, there's a belief that you should follow

31:56 - the sun and then I've been reading things about certain slates

31:59 - people chose to face towards Africa, to face east, towards Africa.

32:03 - So it's quite rare to have those north facing burials.

32:06 - So yeah, one thought is that it might be facing north towards freedom,

32:10 - but with these being people who in general,

32:13 - especially in the later generations, were not enslaved

32:16 - or who had already escaped from slavery at this point,

32:19 - there's also some thought that it might have to do with water sources.

32:23 - So it's somewhere else in Pennsylvania.

32:27 - I'd have to check my notes.

32:28 - There's they believe that

32:29 - a lot of African-American burials face towards the Susquehanna River.

32:33 - And so the animal the closest point is north

32:36 - and there's a creek on the site that is directly south.

32:40 - So I'm wondering

32:41 - if there could be some relationship to water, but it's just so vague.

32:45 - Looking at the JPR on the edge of the cemetery,

32:48 - there's some very interesting disturbance that I don't interpret as a grave

32:53 - that could possibly be a foundation.

32:58 - I it's

32:59 - so vague with JPR

33:00 - that there's absolutely nothing I could say for sure,

33:02 - but like in my heart, I want it to be some sort of structure

33:05 - related to the cemetery or religion or something.

33:07 - But it's just so incredibly vague that there's

33:10 - absolutely nothing to back that up at this point.

33:12 - But maybe if they want to go out there

33:13 - and do a field school, that little edge might be

33:15 - might be too close to the cemetery.

33:17 - I don't know.

33:17 - But yeah, I think it's a part of the question about religion as well.

33:22 - So people are traveling down

33:25 - into Johnstown, some of the churches there.

33:28 - It looks like there's also a couple of newspaper

33:31 - announcements of meetings up at the courthouse.

33:35 - So they're scrolling over

33:36 - and there's got things from the underground down the road.

33:39 - The Underground Railroad folks have a memoir

33:42 - that talks about one of those meetings. And there it's a bunch of things.

33:44 - One hears music,

33:45 - but there's also religious services happening at those meetings as well.

33:49 - So there seems to be a couple of different tiers of religious activity

33:52 - that you can tap into.

33:56 - Go ahead.

33:57 - Yes, you mentioned there was a name that came up a lot.

34:02 - I don't exactly I'm not going to name, so I kind of forgot quickly.

34:06 - But it was you mentioned them twice, Edinburgh specifically.

34:12 - Yeah.

34:12 - Yes, this is certainly so I was wondering if their name came up a lot.

34:17 - But you also use the she pronouns.

34:20 - So was this an individual person or was this a family name?

34:25 - So there's several names that were used a lot

34:28 - like intergenerationally, like there's two cases, Smiths,

34:31 - there's three or four Elizabeths, there's a bunch of John Smiths.

34:35 - So that might be what it is.

34:37 - But yeah, there's

34:40 - which makes all of the history search a little harder when you have to

34:43 - when someone mentions a John Smith, you have to be all right

34:45 - based on his age, is he probably this one or this one? And

34:52 - so then the Edinburgh Smith Baltimore?

34:56 - No, that is just one one individual, one of the founders.

34:59 - And I was just wondering, you mentioned his name came up.

35:03 - Thank you.

35:05 - Who else said go ahead. Okay.

35:07 - So I have a comment and a question.

35:10 - The comment might be that we're looking at what we call circuit breakers

35:14 - for religious purposes

35:17 - the Methodists, the Black Methodist, along with the White Methodist,

35:22 - would have been traveling around

35:24 - and and performing rituals.

35:28 - So just is the question is

35:33 - it was about there were three story map themes

35:38 - so what got left out and why.

35:44 - I think some of it I'm just going to cover a lot of it.

35:46 - And her thesis, I think is part of that too.

35:49 - And part of it was based on the information we have at the time.

35:52 - Right. So a lot of this is ongoing.

35:54 - It's not to say

35:55 - I don't know if they have any plans to make more story maps or nine.

35:58 - It's not to say you can't progress with this research or make more.

36:02 - This was what we went based on documents we had, and we were like,

36:05 - okay, well, in the whole point is like untold stories, right?

36:08 - So we were like, okay, what stories can we tell based on the documents we have

36:14 - and make this and also presenting it

36:16 - in a way it had to be put be able to be put in a story map, right?

36:19 - So like landscape naturally is going to fit perfectly for a story map

36:24 - because you're using maps to tell a story, right, about a landscape.

36:28 - So you can visually make maps on that.

36:30 - The the women one was interesting, like I said, because we also were able

36:34 - to use the family tree and kind of make that interactive.

36:38 - And there were certain stories that we could find with women.

36:41 - And oftentimes we know at that time

36:42 - two women were kind of like left out of that story. Right.

36:45 - So, again, this goes back to that untold idea.

36:48 - And we we know some of them were like civil War veterans.

36:54 - But those stories tend to be told a little bit more

36:56 - now that we don't want to tell them.

36:57 - But that's kind of why that's more in that we still include it, right?

37:00 - It's still in that general context of things

37:04 - as well as the possibility of the Underground Railroad.

37:06 - Right. But we don't have all the documentation for that.

37:09 - So we didn't want to put out several story maps where we're kind of speculating

37:13 - about things or where we don't have the full story.

37:17 - Just like with the indigenous part.

37:18 - Could there be a potential for that in the future if we find more

37:21 - tangible evidence or like if we can really back that up?

37:25 - Sure.

37:25 - But this was what we could do with what we had at the time.

37:28 - And deadlines, of course, naturally you just have some deadlines

37:32 - and we struggled with those deadlines because we had so much information, right?

37:35 - Like I said, we were editing those maps up until the deadline

37:39 - and was being continually working on that family tree.

37:41 - Even after that deadline.

37:44 - So those three narratives were just kind of chosen

37:48 - because we thought, well, we need something

37:50 - to give people a general context, right?

37:51 - You cannot without a general context, women will not.

37:55 - Story's not often told. So cool.

37:57 - We can add that in in landscape and permanence in the idea of home space,

38:02 - it itself very well to the story maps as well as now

38:05 - people can visualize this space if they're not able to physically access

38:08 - it, which is another major reason why that one was chosen was because

38:12 - we wanted this to be accessible to those that cannot physically access the site.

38:17 - I don't know if anybody else has any other ideas on why, but that's

38:20 - really picked by the professors as well.

38:22 - That was above our pay grade.

38:24 - But not only that, one of us suggested

38:27 - landscapes and like so we were definitely part of the process.

38:30 - But in general, yeah,

38:33 - but that was my understanding of it based on what

38:35 - the professors were discussing, was that was why those were chosen.

38:39 - So it also is useful because it kind of bridges that gap

38:42 - between what we think of as environmental resources and cultural resources,

38:46 - especially because one of the things that some I'm

38:49 - not an outside person in the traditional

38:52 - and so when I go up a mountain, I don't necessarily

38:55 - know what the natural plants are

38:57 - that are going to be there versus what was planted.

38:59 - And when we went up, like there's Apple, it's an apple or apple orchard.

39:04 - And so there's a couple of trees that are obviously apples.

39:06 - They talked about in the lunch plenary, the pine trees that are planted in rows.

39:10 - And that's something that I might have noticed, but probably not.

39:14 - And then there's what they sarsaparilla plants.

39:18 - They made sassafras because they made root beer up on the mountain.

39:21 - And that's not something that I would have known to look out for.

39:23 - And so I think like that sort of interplay to like taking the visual aid of it

39:28 - and sort of crossing that boundary in between

39:30 - what we understand is environmental versus

39:32 - cultural resources was one of the other kind of ideas behind that narrative.

39:35 - In particular, when you have the story about the apple trees, too, right?

39:39 - So like the landscape, there's there's specific stories tied to these landscapes.

39:45 - So if we could map those apple trees

39:47 - and still say where they are and then there's a story tied to it.

39:50 - Now we have this unique sense and it makes the descendants then like,

39:54 - I remember that.

39:55 - And that's still there type of a thing.

39:57 - So that's, that's what's really cool.

39:59 - We went to talk to some descendants at an event and we're like,

40:03 - Yeah, we remember going up there and like making root beer and stuff like that.

40:06 - It was very cool, like to see it all wrap around.

40:11 - Good.

40:11 - Yeah, Just first, a congratulatory comment.

40:15 - Some decades ago, I worked in a scout camp for several summers on top of the world.

40:19 - Rachel in South Korea, which was far enough to get to even

40:22 - with a road map for my congratulations or admiration.

40:27 - Condolences for, you know, forget about.

40:29 - But I'm sure it's quite an effort.

40:32 - Once the question one of these sessions already I think it was the

40:36 - the plenary last night they listed

40:39 - a number of sources for ancestry and for people. Yes.

40:44 - And one of ancestry.com, they got a word after I was carefully or whatever.

40:49 - But the inference that I drew from it was that

40:53 - it was sort of a fly by night, that you have to be careful with them.

40:56 - They did a lot of guesswork.

40:58 - And I was wondering

40:58 - if you had used that source and if so, you know, did you find my

41:03 - inference was correct that, you know, you really can't be certain.

41:07 - You just read Internet specifically about ancestry

41:10 - And some of those a lot of those are done updated by local historians as well.

41:15 - And so a lot of it is some of it's crowdsourced information.

41:18 - And so they can be a little inaccurate only because if it's a database

41:24 - database made by humans.

41:26 - And so it always has a potential for human error.

41:28 - And I know that sometimes, like I've done other personal research projects on

41:32 - ancestry in newspapers for my own family, that sort of stuff, and things can get

41:36 - tenuous the further back you go.

41:38 - So but it's very, very good for like finding documents

41:41 - because they have places for you to upload your documents.

41:44 - And so that was a big benefit of using ancestry for this,

41:47 - is that there are there were like birth certificates, death records

41:50 - and stuff on ancestry that we could pull off

41:52 - and then interpret ourselves if needed.

41:54 - So there's primarily two sides to the actual tree building and the records.

42:00 - So the records kind of just they've taken hundreds of libraries, digital records,

42:03 - put them in one place.

42:04 - They're easily searchable with some error because transcription errors,

42:08 - they're not the best at that.

42:09 - But like, great way to get your first sources for individual people.

42:12 - There's also the tree building side where anybody

42:15 - who's made their tree public can see who they think is someone's ancestor.

42:19 - So I would guess that that's probably what that was, is someone said

42:22 - this person is related to this person.

42:23 - They maybe didn't have documentation, but someone else

42:26 - probably had that documentation. So they're like, possible.

42:29 - But yeah, so there's definitely

42:30 - a very academic use for ancestry, but also a much more like public popular use.

42:35 - When I say that's where it leans, binders really came in handy

42:38 - because that's where we could piece together.

42:39 - I like when I was doing my research with the Ancestry,

42:42 - I was strictly taking the documents.

42:43 - I did not necessarily want to go look at those other family trees

42:47 - because I knew that's where your if genus like comes in, because you

42:51 - you don't necessarily want to rely on other people's family trees.

42:54 - I rely on the documents

42:55 - and then I was taking whatever Elaine had maybe from those descendants

42:59 - that are making comments about this is who I know is part of my family.

43:04 - And so then I was able to say, okay, now I can confirm or as best of my ability,

43:09 - confirm that yeah, this person is part of it could probably be a great source

43:13 - for oral history.

43:14 - The future if there's a link like that, and then reaching out to the person

43:17 - and being like, hey, like what do you, how do you get that baseline?

43:21 - Yeah.

43:21 - So where do you get your information from so that you can share that?

43:25 - Because like I said, when they're building that family tree, we can't always

43:28 - see what documents they're using to make that family tree.

43:31 - So that's why you take that family tree with a grain of salt

43:34 - and use the documents that you have.

43:36 - But it would be cool, like Emma says, like if you can reach out to that person

43:39 - that made that tree, you might be able to find more documents

43:42 - in doing that research because maybe they have like you don't.

43:45 - Yeah, yeah.

43:49 - Just one last question, Liz.

43:50 - This is directed towards you as we're talking about your experiences

43:53 - as an undergrad using GIS and then applying it in this context.

43:57 - So any other students in the audience or faculty who are working with students,

44:01 - thinking of barriers or opportunities to do that kind of work.

44:05 - So, you know, in in looking at the story maps,

44:08 - like how much guys training

44:11 - would you say that somebody would need to be able to do that kind of project?

44:14 - Or is it something that, you know,

44:17 - you can spend the time and learn some of this on your own?

44:21 - Or is it sort of like

44:22 - you need to really have some formal training

44:24 - in order to approach these kinds of things together?

44:27 - We see training is the issue.

44:28 - I would say affordability is the issue.

44:31 - So if you're part of a school and your school has GIS software, fantastic.

44:36 - There's one thing that's free to everybody and that's what's called ArcGIS Online.

44:40 - And that's kind of where we were making our story maps from.

44:43 - Right.

44:43 - But the thing is, we were uploading to the story map.

44:47 - We weren't making the maps directly on ArcGIS

44:51 - Online, which you can, but there's limitations.

44:54 - This is kind of getting into the nitty grittiness of it, but our guys online

44:58 - does not have the full capabilities that something they call a ArcGIS Pro.

45:04 - That is the full software.

45:06 - So most of the times you will make your maps in ArcGIS Pro

45:10 - and then upload them to ArcGIS Online.

45:14 - The software for ArcGIS Pro.

45:16 - I think we looked into the pricing on it one time.

45:19 - I don't even know how much that software costs

45:22 - Now in terms of training, it's not that bad

45:24 - because if you would go to Ezri

45:25 - like you could literally ask them any question and Ezri is going

45:28 - to give you a step by step instructions on how to do something.

45:32 - So training

45:34 - you can pretty much teach

45:35 - yourself how to do some of the most of this complex tools.

45:38 - The more you go, the more in-depth it's going to get.

45:41 - Like we found there's a colorblind function, even there's

45:44 - so many things you can do with this if you know what you're looking for.

45:48 - I'd say the biggest issue is more cost.

45:52 - And if like, if you're not a student in a school

45:55 - this isn't something that you can necessarily just do from home

45:58 - because paying for that software

45:59 - and downloading it in the storage space, it's going to take on a computer.

46:03 - So you have to have a computer that can

46:06 - have the capabilities

46:07 - to run it because like we know how much ArcGIS freezes up, right?

46:11 - Like the issues you have with it

46:13 - just freezing up and not working and then you lose all your work

46:16 - that panic look of like it freezes and you're like, my.

46:19 - Like, I just got to 2 hours on this and it's all gone.

46:24 - We're not saving it properly, but it's not training.

46:29 - I would not say it's a training issue.

46:30 - You can get on right now and ask guys, How do I go reference a map?

46:34 - It's going to give you a step by step instruction in what tools to use.

46:38 - But the issue is,

46:41 - yeah, yeah, because I've used several.

46:42 - I've used ArcGIS Pro, which was its own software arc map.

46:47 - They just phased out.

46:48 - Then there's ArcGIS Online and then you can use free softwares or the like.

46:52 - We used Google Earth Pro to make some maps at one point for watershed geologists,

46:57 - if anyone's interested, is probably the primary open source equivalent,

47:00 - of course, as we doesn't want you using that.

47:02 - So it doesn't play well with the online software.

47:06 - So if that's your ultimate goal, you have to go with his free software.

47:09 - And it's the same thing with the arc online.

47:11 - They're trying to get you to buy in to buy that full ArcGIS Pro software.

47:15 - So there's some things you can do on online, but

47:18 - and it's a free access to everybody so anybody can go up and pull maps off

47:22 - ArcGIS online.

47:23 - You can go look at any maps and it's free.

47:26 - You can create a free account.

47:28 - But again, what you create is very limited on

47:33 - on you because the main thing

47:36 - so not intentionally get out of it

47:39 - is that so the story maps in my mind and I've done like a handful

47:44 - now are really a formatting device.

47:47 - So like the content is where

47:49 - all the labor and the time and the effort go to.

47:52 - But I think that the content a little bit better.

47:55 - But a cool, cool function here.

47:58 - Yeah.

47:59 - Like it's, it's very user friendly And so I,

48:03 - I like when I work with students interns, I recommend them like,

48:07 - like sit down, try it out like use a project

48:10 - that you've already created the company, have the content.

48:13 - Okay?

48:13 - And like, it's a really it's they're really powerful tools

48:18 - despite the simplicity of the kind of creating.

48:22 - I mean, you write like there are tutorials or really great resources out there

48:27 - as extensive, but even that free version will get you somewhere.

48:32 - It's a great place to search. Yeah,

48:35 - you have.

48:36 - yeah.

48:36 - This is like a small techie question, but like, who actually owns the maps?

48:40 - And you guys are done because you're uploading them to like a secondary site.

48:42 - Like,

48:43 - do you guys need to keep the copyright office or like,

48:45 - you risk losing these if you don't, like, continue paying?

48:48 - Like, I'm just curious about like the actually ownership of all your work.

48:51 - That's the software I found out the hard way in undergrad.

48:55 - I spent my whole time on a story map and I went to email my professor

48:59 - to try and be like, Hey, do I still have access from this?

49:02 - Like, can I use it?

49:03 - Is it because I wanted to go back and refresh myself?

49:06 - And they go, not a student.

49:08 - And we wait.

49:08 - The student drives every other year.

49:11 - So all my work I had done go.

49:14 - And if you use your own personal account, let's say you create that free account,

49:18 - you will always, always have access to that.

49:20 - But if you're doing it through a school and you're using your school account,

49:23 - usually that gets wiped at some point.

49:25 - But if you I don't know if you like, share it to yourself or make yourself

49:29 - another owner, I believe then because we went through a whole process here

49:33 - where I had to transfer everything Eric and I or Eric had to do it too.

49:37 - We both had separate things we worked on and we had to transfer them to Chris

49:41 - so Chris could then transfer them to whoever they needed to go to

49:45 - to make things public.

49:47 - So we were transferring ownership now, like I got on today

49:49 - and I could see that I still had all my maps that I need.

49:52 - But again, once I leave IAP, it's

49:56 - I don't know how long I'm going to have access to those unless I would

49:59 - somehow give my own personal account like ownership of that as well.

50:03 - So it is a confusing to

50:07 - retain people ownership.

50:09 - Yeah.

50:09 - So to me this is very accurately answering the technological access question,

50:14 - the legal ownership.

50:15 - It belongs to Western principally conservancy.

50:17 - This work was done contract for them and so all of the work go is there is there

50:23 - very kind and liberal in letting us use it for various

50:26 - things like this but it was

50:30 - paid for services.

50:31 - Yeah.

50:32 - I was just going to say

50:34 - I at least had experience when I was on the school.

50:37 - I traced the story over to a personal account and pretty sure

50:41 - it's still up there.

50:42 - I should like to invest the work right now.

50:46 - A couple of years.

50:48 - Also feeling this goes,

50:52 - Do we have any other questions?

50:55 - Kind of quick announcement at least.

50:56 - So I'm the to get back to Henry.

51:00 - This is

51:01 - fortuitous the story maps that you were asking about.

51:04 - We've been teasing you with them for the last two and a half hours.

51:08 - You've been very patient.

51:09 - That we up

51:13 - until literally today, they again didn't belong to us.

51:16 - So we've been not really able to show them and actively. But

51:20 - as of today, I believe Westminster posts Random Conservancy has met them a lot.

51:24 - And so if you go to West Virginia, you Conservancy's website

51:28 - and you scroll down to their little news section there, the first thing is like

51:31 - announcing that they've launched them, you have to click on that

51:34 - and it gives you a little news post.

51:36 - If you click in the news post, it'll drop you to there.

51:38 - What's going to be the permanent web page that can access all of these things.

51:42 - And so we're really excited about this

51:44 - because we finish this work, these guys work up in December.

51:48 - And so there's been a bit of a process to get them up and public

51:51 - but they're not public.

51:52 - So I didn't want see this earlier coverage of attention. But

51:56 - in your next session, feel free to go

51:59 - through one of these things you can do on your phone.

52:01 - It's pretty good. Okay.

52:02 - So they are they're available now, which is super exciting.

52:06 - Well, let's thank our panelists for the call

52:11 - and the rest of the afternoon.

52:13 - If you have a question, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to talk to you.

52:16 - All right.

52:17 - Thank you very much.

52:18 - And I hope you enjoy your next session.

52:20 - And it is time to