00:07 - We are joined today by Kate hamper Donohue your your grandfather Martin malarkey

00:11 - bride the cable industry to the pottsville region of Pennsylvania

00:15 - and he had a significant role in the founding of the national cable and

00:19 - telecommunications association.

00:21 - As you were growing up how

00:22 - aware were you of his significance to the industry.

00:26 - You know it's funny as a kid I don't think we really were that

00:30 - aware

00:31 - and

00:32 - we moved to Connecticut when I was like.

00:35 - Nine or ten years old

00:36 - and both my parents are from pottsville.

00:39 - And we sort of knew about that but it wasn't until I got in college and I was a

00:44 - political science major and.

00:46 - Spend a semester in d c.

00:49 - Where I.

00:50 - Really kind of got the bug and and and and found out a lot more about

00:55 - my grandfather's role in all of it

00:57 - and

00:58 - I had to do as part of this program at American university I had to do a.

01:02 - Paper on something that I could only research in Washington this was pre Internet

01:06 - days re the late seventies so I contacted my grandfather too you.

01:11 - Learn a little bit more about this cable

01:13 - business because we had.

01:15 - Lunch when I first.

01:17 - Got to town

01:18 - and he was very excited about what was happening on the regulatory and legislative

01:22 - front in terms of.

01:24 - Opening up.

01:26 - The cable landscape

01:28 - and.

01:28 - I thought

01:29 - okay

01:30 - this

01:30 - sounds as interesting as anything else.

01:33 - Let me do my paper on this.

01:35 - So he connected me with Tom Wheeler who was the head of the n c t a the lobbying arm

01:41 - of the

01:41 - of the cable industry that

01:43 - he started

01:44 - and

01:45 - he also connected me with Brian lamb.

01:47 - And.

01:49 - Which paid off later for me

01:51 - and.

01:53 - And

01:54 - I dug in

01:55 - and it was just so interesting how this whole thing had started my grandfather's role

01:59 - in it how the

02:00 - industry had evolved

02:01 - to a point.

02:03 - But

02:04 - when he first started.

02:06 - His cable systems

02:07 - it was really to pick up signals from cities.

02:10 - That had

02:11 - no physical like mountains and between the the city and the.

02:15 - No

02:16 - the.

02:16 - Other localities

02:18 - but by the.

02:19 - End of the seventies early eighties.

02:21 - All of a sudden people were saying well.

02:24 - Why don't we have cable in.

02:26 - The cities or in the suburbs and by this time there was some.

02:29 - Initial.

02:30 - Programming that wasn't available over the air.

02:33 - H b o usa network

02:35 - and.

02:36 - She's going to think of tbs I think

02:38 - and.

02:39 - So there was going to be this explosion.

02:42 - And that's when I really realized

02:45 - okay that this guy is a player

02:47 - he he had a.

02:48 - Huge influence on how the industry started.

02:52 - So he had

02:53 - been built and.

02:54 - A couple of cable systems one in pottsville and some surrounding communities

02:58 - but by the mid to late sixty's I believe he had sold them

03:02 - and decided that that

03:03 - he was better off being a consultant to the industry to try to help it grow that way

03:08 - and.

03:09 - By the time I

03:10 - was spending time with him in Washington I was like.

03:13 - I just sell those systems darn

03:16 - I would be very cool

03:17 - but in any event

03:18 - he

03:19 - took full advantage of those years when there

03:24 - was a lot of franchise activity going on.

03:25 - When

03:25 - cities and suburbs were trying to figure out how to

03:28 - build out cable systems

03:30 - and.

03:31 - And.

03:33 - That was.

03:34 - It was so exciting to be in the business then and to

03:37 - and to know him and

03:39 - and.

03:40 - To be.

03:41 - Part of that because once I graduated from college I did that semester I went.

03:47 - On

03:47 - I went back to finish my degree and then move back to DC because I just loved it

03:52 - and I was and i'm

03:53 - I'm like I'm going in the cable industry.

03:55 - Mostly because I didn't know anything else but it was just I was whoa there at the

03:59 - right time the summer of nineteen eighty.

04:01 - CNN launched mtv launched

04:04 - and.

04:05 - There was a lot happening on the regulatory front it was just a great time to be

04:09 - there and he knew.

04:10 - He knew everybody

04:12 - and he had

04:12 - initially introduced me to be Ryan lamb of c-span who didn't have a job for me at

04:16 - that point I think lachman

04:18 - think Brian lockman was.

04:20 - On the team there's probably four people there

04:22 - and.

04:23 - So I ended up going to work for the.

04:25 - The trade magazine cablevision which was

04:28 - sort of in the same building as cspan at the time.

04:31 - Which is held in Arlington Virginia not even in

04:34 - downtown by the capital.

04:36 - And.

04:37 - But event in any event.

04:39 - His.

04:40 - As time went on and I met more and more people in the industry I heard more and more

04:44 - stories about him

04:45 - and

04:46 - he was known for being

04:47 - incredibly dapper

04:49 - and well dressed

04:51 - and.

04:52 - He was an avid backgammon player.

04:55 - He loved Polo

04:57 - he raced cars

04:59 - and he flew planes he was just.

05:03 - A renaissance man

05:04 - of.

05:05 - Of.

05:06 - Of all sorts.

05:07 - He had he was bald except for some hair around here

05:10 - six for very imposing figure.

05:13 - So if.

05:14 - He would take me out for lunch like.

05:17 - We went to the best places and.

05:19 - Like at the palm there was a caricature of him on the wall.

05:23 - He had his own table.

05:25 - It

05:26 - was very nice for a twenty two year old to.

05:28 - You know

05:29 - go out and do stuff with him.

05:30 - And.

05:32 - The

05:32 - one great story I have is that we wait there was the.

05:36 - The cable emmys

05:38 - and they were called the

05:39 - the a sword

05:40 - and they would be in l a.

05:42 - At least this one year they were in l a and

05:44 - I had moved to l a by that point I was working for American movie classics

05:48 - and.

05:52 - Let's see it was nineteen ninety four.

05:55 - The night of the.

05:56 - Northridge earthquake.

05:58 - The

05:58 - ace awards had been the night before

06:00 - grandfather was out for this

06:02 - the earthquake hit in the middle of the night.

06:05 - Everybody scrambling and so.

06:07 - Checking is everybody okay.

06:09 - The next day day I hear the story that

06:12 - my grandfather who was staying at the risk cart Carlton

06:15 - everybody's running out of the hotel in the cable industry like in their

06:18 - pajamas.

06:19 - He comes down fully dressed

06:21 - three piece suit.

06:22 - It in the door I mean cause the lights went out and everything and he had his shirt

06:26 - and his tie and his best his jacket and pants and

06:29 - and Walter cronkite who would been.

06:32 - I think the mc for the night said you know

06:33 - of course Martin

06:35 - is perfectly dressed when everybody else is you know totally

06:38 - discombobulated she

06:39 - that is actually one of my favorite stories about him is that he.

06:43 - I dunno how he got dressed in the dark and he was like seventy something at that

06:46 - point how did he get dressed and downstairs.

06:50 - I dunno

06:51 - but.

06:51 - He did.

06:53 - Well let's go back to the very beginning if I may i'm

06:55 - Martin malarkey started his first cable system

06:59 - in pottsville nineteen fifty how did you.

06:59 - First get interested in the industry.

07:01 - While his family had a.

07:04 - Music and electronic store and they sold a lot of musical instruments but then they

07:09 - started selling only sold radios.

07:12 - And then they started trying to sell televisions and.

07:15 - Nobody was buying them because.

07:17 - You couldn't get any of the signals from Philadelphia so

07:20 - he was on some kind of a business trip to new York

07:23 - and was staying at the Waldorf astoria

07:25 - and was surprised that there was TV

07:28 - in his room.

07:30 - Just really puzzled any thought

07:32 - to be being in the city is kind of like this you know the other buildings are sort of

07:35 - the same as mountains like.

07:37 - How it

07:38 - how are they getting a signal.

07:40 - So he somehow

07:41 - typical Martin.

07:42 - Finds that building engineer who takes them up on the roof all the way to the top

07:46 - where there's this giant antenna.

07:49 - And says this and then we're just running a cable down through the floors

07:52 - each room.

07:54 - And he went

07:54 - hm.

07:56 - I wonder if that would work in pottsville so

07:59 - he went back

08:00 - put an antenna up on the highest place he could find and literally ran a cable.

08:05 - From that.

08:06 - Antenna

08:07 - to his store

08:09 - and put a TV in the winter window

08:11 - with

08:12 - all the Philadelphia

08:13 - Philadelphia stations on it and people were like.

08:16 - What not.

08:17 - So for like four ninety five a month he would hook you're.

08:21 - He would.

08:22 - He would sell you a TV

08:24 - and hook you up and.

08:25 - You paid for ninety five

08:27 - a month to get.

08:28 - The the validate the three or four Philadelphia stations.

08:32 - Do.

08:34 - And.

08:35 - A business was born.

08:37 - And then he he he did the same thing in a

08:40 - couple of surrounding towns and then

08:42 - he started connecting with other people like bill Daniels some of the other early

08:46 - early guys and then he realized that this was happening.

08:49 - In pockets all over the country.

08:51 - Which is why he ended up saying we need.

08:54 - We need to be a group we need to have some.

08:59 - Cloud in Washington we need to be connected to the fcc which had.

09:03 - Rules and regs about things because

09:05 - initially when

09:06 - the communication act of.

09:08 - Nineteen thirty four was passed.

09:10 - Which established

09:11 - television as a

09:12 - communications entity.

09:15 - The assumption at that time was that.

09:17 - Television signals would only key kerry.

09:20 - I dunno maybe twenty miles

09:22 - and that like every town was going to have a TV station.

09:25 - They totally didn't realize just how far signals would go and that everytime was.

09:30 - There was no point in every town having a station.

09:33 - That

09:33 - you could pick up a.

09:35 - Signal from a town

09:36 - or a city you know

09:38 - fifty sixty one hundred miles away.

09:40 - So.

09:42 - That that idea of hyper local television that

09:45 - the communications act was trying to.

09:48 - Do.

09:49 - You know.

09:51 - Push forward

09:52 - really didn't happen because the technology turned that turned out to.

09:55 - Not support that so.

09:58 - Cable was the.

10:00 - The way around it.

10:02 - It took for at least for remote more remote places so.

10:05 - On but.

10:07 - Legislatively and regulatory

10:09 - it wasn't supported by the rules in Washington so that's why he felt that he needed

10:13 - to get this group together and.

10:15 - The first meeting of the nc ga was at the Nico Allen hotel.

10:19 - Which is now.

10:21 - I think a halfway house

10:22 - I was I was back in pottsville a.

10:25 - Couple of summers ago.

10:27 - Or some kind of a.

10:29 - Residential living

10:31 - and.

10:32 - And I still have a picture I think you have a picture to of.

10:36 - Of that first meeting.

10:38 - Of course all men.

10:40 - All white men.

10:42 - But you know all in their suits and ties sitting at

10:45 - tables and there was probably.

10:46 - I dunno twenty twenty five of them.

10:49 - Do.

10:50 - But they lay the foundation for what became has become

10:54 - one of the more powerful lobbyists in in Washington.

10:57 - What did the nct aid do in those early years to establish and protect the industry.

11:02 - While there were rules about antennas there were rules about how

11:05 - you got a franchise like because you had to get

11:08 - permission from local.

11:10 - Communities to hang the cable wire.

11:13 - Next to the telephone wire.

11:15 - So there was a hodgepodge

11:16 - of rules about that.

11:18 - The whole satellite.

11:20 - Industry.

11:22 - For.

11:23 - You know.

11:24 - This whole new category of programming that existed.

11:27 - There was a bunch of rules about that

11:30 - and

11:30 - that were not conducive and the broadcast industry initially was very much opposed to

11:35 - cable.

11:36 - They somehow thought they didn't quite.

11:39 - Understand initially that this was going to bring more eyeballs which which

11:43 - for regular broadcast means more

11:45 - you know you can ask more for advertising.

11:48 - And

11:49 - and

11:49 - then there was the whole.

11:51 - Must carry battle you have to carry all the signals.

11:55 - It

11:55 - that it was messy.

11:57 - Because it was a little bit hard for everybody to understand.

12:00 - So.

12:01 - Initially they worked mostly with the f c c but then there was big regulation in the

12:05 - eighties I think it's the communications act like eighty six or eighty seven.

12:09 - That.

12:11 - Really.

12:12 - Burst open the damn to let.

12:14 - Cable just spread everywhere.

12:17 - And that's when you saw also the explosion of channels.

12:20 - And.

12:21 - To somewhere.

12:24 - A kinda where we I mean that's when they started talking about five hundred channels

12:27 - and people are.

12:28 - Never going to happen and.

12:31 - China has.

12:32 - Added Martin father feel about him seeking out and starting an industry that was

12:37 - separate beyond the family store.

12:40 - No

12:41 - no that was.

12:43 - It was.

12:44 - He really thought Martin was a risk-taker which he was I will say.

12:48 - I.

12:49 - I'm

12:50 - I think I never met his father so he passed away before

12:54 - I was old enough but I don't.

12:58 - My recollection is that he passed away.

13:02 - Around that time but his initial

13:04 - and.

13:05 - Sort of.

13:06 - Reaction to it was.

13:08 - This isn't our business

13:10 - but the fact that they once they started selling a lot more tvnz he was like hm okay

13:15 - maybe this will work out.

13:17 - What did Martin like most about starting the business and running the cable systems.

13:24 - He liked being in charge.

13:26 - But I think he also.

13:28 - He was the kind of person that was.

13:31 - He was very smart.

13:33 - Quick-witted always had a story always had.

13:37 - Some

13:38 - he was.

13:39 - Irish you know story to tell.

13:41 - And.

13:44 - I think he got bored quickly.

13:47 - So I think once he realized okay I know how to build these cable systems but I have a

13:51 - grander vision

13:53 - and I think that's why the malarkey Taylor consulting firm was much.

13:57 - Younger.

13:58 - She

13:59 - he liked that because what.

14:01 - They did changed over time are the focus of their work changed over time

14:06 - and he could always be at the forefront of.

14:08 - Trying to build the industry

14:11 - and.

14:12 - He would have ideas he'd want to execute them and then he'd want to move on.

14:15 - A few moments ago you'd reference that Martin eventually transitioned from living in

14:19 - pottsville to working ultimately as a

14:23 - consultant in DC what drew him to Washington DC.

14:25 - I think he realized that.

14:27 - While potable was too to smaller town for him honestly his ambitions were

14:31 - pretty significant.

14:33 - And by think he also realized that.

14:37 - We needed.

14:39 - More voices not just the the association voices but the actual.

14:44 - People in the industry

14:46 - talking about.

14:47 - Cable to the law makers and the regulators

14:50 - and.

14:51 - And.

14:53 - DC was his kind of town I mean was not too big it was very cool hubby

14:57 - and.

14:59 - He moved to Georgetown beautiful now home

15:02 - really cool neighborhood

15:04 - and he was very active in

15:07 - Washington society.

15:09 - His his.

15:10 - His second wife my.

15:12 - Divorce my grandmother but.

15:14 - She was very well connected.

15:16 - Too

15:17 - the jaunt

15:17 - to the Johnson family.

15:19 - You know lyndon Johnson family and.

15:21 - They were.

15:22 - Very philanthropic so.

15:25 - You know Kennedy center stuff.

15:27 - They participated in a lot of the social life of Washington

15:31 - and he he really liked that and like I said he race cars and.

15:35 - Flew planes and.

15:36 - It was

15:37 - it was a it was the.

15:39 - Sort of the fast life that

15:41 - it certainly wasn't happening in pot so.

15:44 - I will say

15:45 - they think that move to DC played a significant role in the decision to sell the

15:48 - cable systems.

15:51 - Yeah I think he had a plan that he wanted something he wanted to do something bigger

15:55 - and.

15:57 - And.

15:58 - He was good at finding.

16:01 - Managers

16:02 - people to run.

16:04 - System so I think when he sold them he felt like to to Warner.

16:07 - Communications I

16:08 - think he felt like they were in good hands.

16:11 - And he he had met and.

16:14 - Archer Taylor by that point

16:16 - who was the technical guy

16:17 - you know how to actually build a system

16:19 - and Martin was the.

16:22 - Sales guy I would say

16:23 - he was.

16:25 - The one that had the vision for how do you convince people to.

16:28 - To

16:28 - give you the permit or the franchise or whatever you needed.

16:32 - Him is that he was a really good speaker.

16:35 - As I've mentioned Martin served as a consultant in Washington DC to those starting

16:39 - out in the cable industry how was he able to

16:42 - to help those that were new to the business.

16:44 - Well he understood the flint fundamentals of what you needed to do to get

16:48 - the regular you know to get the local permitting permission how then

16:52 - along with Archer kaler what

16:54 - you needed to do technically to build a system.

16:58 - And then.

17:00 - How you had to think about.

17:02 - Attracting subscribers and continuing to

17:05 - to grow

17:06 - the.

17:07 - You know the organiser you know the

17:08 - entity to bigger and bigger.

17:12 - Heights are you know acquiring

17:14 - ancillary properties whatever.

17:17 - It should be noted that you have your own successful career and started out in cable

17:20 - and into communications can you talk a little bit about.

17:23 - Some of the roles that you've served

17:24 - over the years.

17:26 - Oh that's so nice

17:28 - but I do consider

17:28 - myself like a.

17:31 - A lipo.

17:33 - History.

17:35 - So I started out

17:36 - at cablevision magazine which was the.

17:39 - In our opinion the lead trade magazine.

17:41 - I was editing their annual.

17:45 - Annual directory of all the cable systems in the country which.

17:49 - At that time in nineteen eighty we had on little index cards that had to be.

17:53 - Typeset

17:54 - into this

17:55 - big directory today would all be computerized obviously but that was what I worked

17:59 - towards was getting this all on computer because it was so tedious.

18:02 - Then I went to work for

18:04 - and another trade magazine that was.

18:07 - Hyping the

18:08 - home satellite industry.

18:11 - That's when

18:12 - dishes on houses became

18:14 - got.

18:14 - Shrunk down from thirty feet across to.

18:17 - Eighteen inches.

18:18 - Then I worked for a startup that.

18:22 - And

18:22 - pioneer it was called the Naboo network and it delivered.

18:26 - Computer software via cable

18:29 - way before it's time

18:31 - did not make it we lasted about a year

18:33 - and then I went to work for cspan.

18:35 - I was there for five years in the affiliate sales.

18:38 - Department.

18:40 - And then

18:41 - I.

18:42 - After cspan I went to American movie classics.

18:45 - Where Iran their affiliate office first in Chicago and then l a.

18:50 - And then I spent.

18:52 - After I had my first two kids I spent the next.

18:55 - Five or six years doing recruiting in the industry because.

18:59 - Cable is a very clubby.

19:02 - Industry like

19:04 - everybody knows each other I had lived in DC Chicago l a.

19:08 - And in affiliate relations you get to know everybody and

19:11 - and on the programming side there's no comp you know.

19:14 - There really isn't competition and there certainly isn't wasn't competition between

19:17 - the cable operators you know every there's one franchise

19:21 - for community with like one or two exceptions so.

19:24 - I.

19:26 - It wasn't like a lot of edge other industry so there was.

19:30 - We just everybody we knew each other so I was good at.

19:34 - Matching people with

19:35 - company cultures

19:37 - specific jobs which I really enjoyed and.

19:40 - I could work from home

19:41 - so.

19:42 - And

19:42 - then shortly after that my.

19:45 - Dad.

19:46 - Who who.

19:47 - Started.

19:49 - The company that I have been running for the last seventeen years

19:52 - got sick and asked me to come.

19:54 - On board and I switched from cable.

19:56 - TV to.

19:57 - Especially chemical manufacturing.

20:00 - What has been.

20:02 - An amazing ride

20:03 - but I do credit my my cable years with.

20:06 - I.

20:09 - I used to think when I was in the cable business.

20:11 - That my credibility as a leader came from.

20:15 - How much I knew about the business how much I knew about

20:18 - the different companies

20:19 - leadership that the companies

20:21 - the the cultures of the companies

20:23 - the history of the industry

20:25 - and.

20:28 - And that I could probably do the jobs of everybody that works for me.

20:32 - When I came over to this job.

20:34 - I'm not a chemist I'm not an engineer I never ran a manufacturing plant don't know

20:38 - anything about it

20:40 - and it turned out that.

20:42 - It was more about my

20:43 - organizational

20:45 - management.

20:46 - Personnel.

20:48 - Skills

20:49 - and

20:50 - that I think helped me succeed

20:51 - and that I had worked for some really great companies and different kinds of companies

20:55 - I had worked for a startup I had worked for

20:58 - and like cspan was the best drawn company I ever worked for I mean

21:02 - they they really

21:03 - ran

21:04 - a tight business so from a business model standpoint

21:07 - I took.

21:08 - A lot from there

21:09 - and.

21:10 - So using all of that experience that I got at a very young age I have to say I don't

21:14 - think I would have had.

21:15 - The same kinds of opportunities

21:18 - and

21:18 - if I had been in an industry other than cable

21:21 - you know as a young woman.

21:22 - Ah.

21:23 - And that has served me very well in this in this new world that I live in that.

21:28 - When I int Ashley started I thought.

21:30 - Chemicals ooh.

21:32 - Ooh.

21:32 - Really don't want to do this and here I am seventeen years later and absolutely love

21:36 - my job.

21:37 - How was your grandfather influenced here.

21:41 - I always felt when I was in the cable industry that I needed to sort of.

21:47 - To me he since he was such like a legendary.

21:49 - Figure I certainly had to be.

21:52 - I never wanted to tarnish that reputation I wanted to make sure that our family

21:57 - and.

21:59 - And it was well represented

22:00 - and well thought of in the industry

22:02 - and.

22:04 - Now working for a business so.

22:07 - I was working then in cable in a business that my grandfather had helped start

22:11 - overall the industry

22:12 - and now I'm working in a business that my father

22:15 - started

22:16 - and.

22:17 - There's this sort of feeling of carrying a legacy.

22:20 - And.

22:22 - I feel like I carry some of my grandfather's legacy because I you know I cut my teeth

22:26 - and learned how to be.

22:28 - I think a good business person.

22:30 - In my cable years

22:31 - and then I've been able to use that now.

22:34 - To build my father's business which is.

22:37 - How many people get to do that.

22:39 - Rarely lucky.

22:41 - I'm not as funny as my grandfather was though he he really knew how to tell a story

22:45 - and.

22:47 - Now he was a good.

22:48 - Storyteller.

22:50 - Martin malarkey never retired from working

22:52 - why do you think that was.

22:55 - Oh.

22:56 - There's just no way.

22:58 - He was going to sit around and do nothing.

23:01 - He was very clear about that

23:02 - I mean he died on his on his a treadmill.

23:05 - He was exercising for the mourn you know that was what he always did.

23:09 - And.

23:10 - He just.

23:11 - Even though Betty his wife.

23:13 - Really did want him to retire.

23:15 - She was like what am I going to do like he really couldn't race cars anymore he

23:18 - didn't fly any more.

23:20 - He could only play so much.

23:22 - Backgammon he was never a golfer

23:24 - so.

23:25 - And now he was the you know he was the stage so people just came to him for advice

23:29 - would come and just say can I spend a couple of hours with you and.

23:33 - She was so smart and at such a prodigious memory about the industry

23:37 - and it was so thoughtful about.

23:41 - How he thought about the

23:42 - what how the end of the tree industry had evolved but also what he thought was going

23:46 - to happen in the future that he was just.

23:48 - Sought after as a.

23:50 - Somebody with a lot of wisdom.

23:53 - Following his death in nineteen ninety seven Martin malarkey was inducted into the

23:56 - cable center hall of fame how would you describe his legacy.

24:01 - You know ironically I could not be at that I was supposed to present

24:04 - the honor to him but I was.

24:06 - Eight months pregnant with my third kid and the doctor says you can't go to Atlanta.

24:10 - So my mom went instead but.

24:13 - He was one of the founding fathers I mean.

24:16 - Just

24:17 - and so proud of that and.

24:19 - When people asked me about my career I

24:22 - always talk about him and.

24:24 - That this.

24:26 - This urge to create to

24:28 - to do something new and to do it well

24:30 - and then to continue to evolve

24:33 - but he he could have stayed building cable systems but he said.

24:36 - No

24:36 - I think I can do more by helping other people be successful at building cable systems

24:41 - and making sure that cities.

24:43 - Cut good deals with cable operators

24:45 - and that's fair to both sides

24:48 - and.

24:50 - I think that and and that he

24:52 - he.

24:52 - He gave the industry

24:54 - a certain.

24:56 - Stature

24:58 - and.

25:00 - Panache.

25:02 - I.

25:03 - Just.

25:04 - There was a weight about him.

25:06 - But he was a serious guy and a really.

25:09 - Thoughtful.

25:10 - But.

25:11 - Commanding.

25:13 - Person.

25:14 - And that along with you know people like Amos

25:19 - hostetter and bill Daniels I mean there's.

25:19 - A.

25:20 - Ton of guys.

25:21 - That just really made the industry what it was and.

25:26 - But

25:26 - I think without him and some of these these other pioneers we we would not

25:31 - even though

25:32 - people say oh

25:32 - you know televisions cables going

25:34 - away

25:35 - all you know all the streaming services

25:37 - that that

25:38 - wouldn't even have happened without cable in between

25:41 - so.

25:42 - I don't think it's ever going to totally go away but it's all started with these guys

25:46 - guys that had an idea.

25:48 - To

25:49 - to bring something to people

25:51 - bring knowledge and access to the rest of the world to people.

25:56 - We've been speaking with Kate hamper donahue thank you so much for joining US.

26:00 - You're welcome.