00:00 - >>THE CHIEF JUSTICE AND

00:01 - JUSTICES OF THE SUPREME COURT

00:02 - OF PENNSYLVANIA.

00:06 - >>OH YEA OH YEA

00:08 - OH YEA.

00:08 - >>ALL MEN ARE PERSONS WHO STAND

00:10 - DOWN BY RECOGNIZANCE WHO

00:11 - OTHERWISE HAVE BUSINESS BEFORE

00:13 - THIS COURT ME NOW HERE IN THE

00:14 - SHELBY HER GOD SAVE THE

00:16 - COMMONWEALTH AND THIS HONORABLE

00:17 - COURT PLEASE BE SEATED.

00:40 - >>WALL TOO.

01:43 - >>MAP.

01:43 - >>BECAUSE WELL THANK YOU WHAT

01:45 - WE WILL WE WILL. LOOK

01:48 - TO THAT.

01:49 - >>SECONDLY OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T

01:52 - WANT TO BE HERE UNTIL TOMORROW

01:54 - THIS TIME I KNOW NONE OF YOU DO

01:56 - EITHER. SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO

01:58 - DO FOR THIS SESSION WHICH IS

01:59 - NOT OUR TYPICAL PROTOCOL.

02:02 - IS WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU 2

02:03 - MINUTES TO OPEN UNINTERRUPTED

02:05 - NONE OF US WILL WILL WILL.

02:07 - ASK YOU ANYTHING TO GIVE YOU

02:10 - EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO SET THE

02:11 - STAGE WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU

02:13 - QUESTIONS FOR ROUGHLY

02:14 - 11 MINUTES NOT AN ALL CANDOR TO

02:17 - CONSTRAIN YOU MORE THAN THAT SO

02:18 - THAT JUSTICE HAS A QUESTION AT

02:20 - THE END OF THE 11 MINUTE

02:21 - JUSTICE WILL ASK THAT QUESTION

02:23 - WHEN JUSTICE IS NO LONGER HAVE

02:25 - QUESTIONS WILL

02:25 - MOVE ON WE'LL GIVE YOU AN BUT

02:27 - WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO HOLD THAT

02:29 - 11 MINUTES AND WE'RE GOING TO

02:30 - GIVE YOU 2 MINUTES TO CLOSE TO

02:31 - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE

02:32 - OPPORTUNITY WE EXPLAIN

02:34 - TO US AGAIN WHY YOU

02:37 - YOUR MAPS SHOULD BE CHOSEN AND

02:39 - THAT ROCKED THAT THAT HE WAITS

02:40 - TO ABOUT 15 MINUTES PER PERSON

02:42 - IN ABOUT 3 AND HALF HOURS FOR

02:44 - ORAL ARGUMENT.

02:45 - >>WE WILL PROBABLY TAKE A LUNCH

02:47 - BREAK IN THERE SOMEWHERE SO

02:49 - THAT'S THE PROTOCOL THAT THE

02:50 - COURT HAS AGREED UPON. I I

02:53 - TRUST THAT

02:54 - IT WILL ALLOW YOU TO

02:56 - FULLY WHY YOU SHOULD PREVAIL

03:00 - YOUR MAPS SHOULD

03:03 - BEFORE US SO WITH THAT THAT THE

03:05 - FIRST PARTY ARGUING IS A MAP ON

03:08 - BEHALF OF SENATOR JAY COSTA AND

03:09 - THAT'S MISTER THE VAN TO FEEL

03:16 - >>GOOD MORNING MAY PLEASE

03:16 - THE COURT A TOUGHER LINE ON

03:18 - BEHALF OF THE

03:19 - SENATE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS LED BY

03:21 - SENATOR JAY COSTA.

03:25 - LET ME LET

03:25 - ME FIRST EXPRESS MY HONOR AND

03:28 - THE FIRST LAWYER BEFORE YOU IN

03:29 - YOUR CAPACITY AS SUPREME COURT

03:30 - JUSTICE JUST AS PROPS.

03:42 - I WANT TO IT'S INTERESTING THE

03:44 - FIRST SPEAKER AND THERE ARE A

03:45 - LOT OF PRINCIPAL, SO I DID WANT

03:47 - TO COVER GENERALLY A COUPLE OF

03:48 - PRINCIPLES THAT REALLY LEAD TO

03:50 - THE I WOULD SAY THAT

03:52 - THERE ARE A

03:53 - NUMBER OF VERY GOOD MAPS THAT

03:54 - ARE BEING PRESENTED AND THE

03:56 - DIFFERENCES IN THE NUANCES.

03:58 - I'M REALLY REFLECT SOME SOME

04:00 - JUDGMENT IN TERMS OF WHAT

04:02 - COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST SHOULD

04:03 - BE CONNECTED OR HOW THOSE

04:04 - ARE UNDERTAKEN. BUT THERE ARE

04:06 - CERTAIN PRINCIPLES THAT I THINK

04:07 - APPLY AND WE'VE BEEN LIVING

04:09 - THIS PROCESS FOR A WHILE AND SO

04:11 - I JUST

04:11 - WANTED THAT. BRIEFLY REVIEW

04:13 - THOSE IN TOUCH UPON JUST 3

04:14 - TOPICS IS IT SORT OF AN OPENING

04:17 - TO SET THE STAGE HERE FOR THE

04:19 - DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE GOING TO

04:20 - HAVE WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT

04:22 - IS THIS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN

04:24 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

04:25 - AND HOLD AND WHAT THAT MEANS

04:26 - AND HOW WE ANALYZE THAT BECAUSE

04:28 - THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT

04:29 - THIS IS HAVING ONE LESS SPLIT

04:31 - SOMEHOW GOING TO TRUMP THE THE

04:33 - VOTE DILUTION ISSUE AND HOW WE

04:35 - LOOK

04:35 - AT THAT THERE'S A SECOND

04:37 - QUESTION THAT DEALS WITH HOW DO

04:38 - YOU APPLY THIS CONCEPT OF VOTE

04:40 - DILUTION AND PREVENTING VOTE

04:42 - DILUTION IN TERMS OF THE

04:43 - APPLICATION THE MAPS. WHAT WE

04:45 - LOOK FOR AND THEN FINALLY

04:47 - OBVIOUSLY ON BEHALF OF THE

04:49 - SENATE DEMOCRATS I KNOW I SPEAK

04:50 - ON BEHALF OF THAT

04:53 - DEMOCRATIC HOUSE MEMBERS

04:54 - AS WELL WE AS YOU AS REFLECTED

04:57 - IN THE COURT'S ORDER YESTERDAY.

04:59 - WE HAVE THE LRC COMING DOWN THE

05:00 - PIKE IMMEDIATELY BEHIND US WE

05:02 - THINK FOR THE SAME REASONS

05:04 - THE VOTERS SHOULD HAVE A

05:05 - MEANINGFUL SAY IN WHO THEIR

05:06 - CONGRESS REPRESENTATIVE IS

05:08 - CERTAINLY APPLIES EQUALLY TO

05:10 - THEIR STATE SEN AND TO THEIR

05:11 - STATE REPRESENTATIVE IN SO WE

05:13 - WOULD ASK.

05:14 - EVERYTHING BE UNDERTAKEN WITH

05:16 - ONE PRIMARY THAT ALL THE RACES

05:17 - BE UNDERTAKEN TOGETHER AND AS

05:19 - TO THAT THERE ARE SOME

05:21 - SCHEDULING ISSUES. AND

05:23 - AND MAYBE THOUGHTS AND HOW WE

05:25 - CAN ACCELERATE WHAT MIGHT BE A

05:26 - VERY TIGHT TIMEFRAME STURLA

05:28 - FIND THIS IS NOT A QUESTION ON

05:29 - THE MERITS. I'M NOT TRYING TO

05:31 - INTERRUPT YOUR INTRO BUT.

05:32 - >>WOULD YOU INTRODUCE

05:33 - YOUR CO-COUNSEL PLEASE I'M

05:35 - SORRY

05:35 - MY APOLOGIES. I'M COREY WOODS.

05:38 - MICHAEL COUNCIL MY SHOW CARE IS

05:40 - WITH ME AS WELL AND MY

05:41 - APOLOGIES.

05:43 - YOU PARTICULARLY SWITCH.

05:47 - SO LET'S TALK ABOUT SO THE

05:48 - FIRST CONCEPT IS WHAT WHAT'S

05:49 - THE I DO WE WHAT'S THE

05:51 - RELATIONSHIP WITH LEAGUE OF

05:51 - WOMEN VOTERS AND AND AND HOLD

05:55 - AND THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION

05:56 - ABOUT THAT.

05:57 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS IS

05:59 - REALLY PREDICATED ON ARTICLE

06:00 - ONE SECTION 5 IT'S DEALING WITH

06:02 - THE IDEA

06:03 - OF VOTERS HAVING

06:04 - A VOICE. SO WHILE HOLD A

06:06 - SIGNIFICANT AND THAT HOLD

06:08 - REFLECTED SOME OF THE

06:09 - TRADITIONAL.

06:11 - REAPPORTIONMENT CRITERIA IN

06:13 - TERMS OF COMPACT THIS AND

06:14 - SPLITS AND THAT SORT OF THING

06:16 - OF COURSE THAT THAT INVOLVES

06:17 - SPECIFICALLY IN ARTICLE 2

06:20 - CRITERIA THAT'S RELATED TO THE

06:22 - THE STATE MAPS OF THE CREATION

06:23 - OF STATEMENTS BY THE LRC

06:25 - THIS COURT RECOGNIZES THESE ARE

06:27 - TRADITIONAL CRITERIA, BUT WENT

06:28 - A STEP BEYOND AND

06:29 - LOOKED AT THE HISTORY OF

06:32 - ARTICLE ONE SECTION 5 REALLY

06:34 - GOING BACK TO THE 1790

06:35 - CONSTITUTION. AND NOTING THAT

06:37 - IT WAS REALLY IT WAS IT WAS A

06:40 - IN A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD WHERE

06:41 - THEY'RE ACTUALLY BATTLES

06:42 - BETWEEN FACTIONS IN THE STATE

06:44 - IN AN EFFORT TO HAVE ANY EQUAL

06:47 - VOICE TO HAVE

06:48 - THE MAJORITY, WHOEVER IS IN

06:50 - POWER TO NOT BASICALLY

06:51 - SUFFOCATE OTHERS WHO SOUGHT TO

06:54 - HAVE THE CHANCE

06:55 - OF REPRESENTATION AND THAT'S A

06:56 - REALLY IMPORTANT CONCEPT AND.

06:59 - FOR GOOD OR BAD, I THINK WE

07:01 - REALLY HAVEN'T MADE THAT MUCH

07:02 - PROGRESS IN 1790 BECAUSE WE

07:04 - STILL HAVE THOSE ISSUES

07:05 - OBVIOUSLY IN

07:06 - TERMS OF MAKING SURE THAT

07:07 - PEOPLE HAVE A VOICE AND THAT'S.

07:10 - THAT'S REALLY A CRITICAL

07:12 - COMPONENT OF LEAGUE OF WOMEN

07:13 - VOTERS.

07:15 - SO WHEN WE LOOK AT LEGAL WHEN

07:16 - VOTERS WERE GOING TO HEAR SOME

07:17 - DISCUSSION TODAY ABOUT

07:18 - MATCH AND WHAT HAS ONE SPLIT

07:21 - MORE ONE SPLIT LAST.

07:23 - BUT REALLY IN APPLYING ARTICLE

07:24 - ONE SECTION 5. IT'S ALSO A

07:26 - QUESTION ABOUT WHO HAS A VOICE.

07:29 - WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND

07:31 - HOW DO WE HOW DO WE MEASURE WHO

07:32 - HAS THAT VOICE.

07:36 - THE IDEA OF VOTE DILUTION WHAT

07:38 - DOES THAT I MEAN IN TERMS OF

07:40 - INTERPRETING IN READING LEAGUE

07:42 - OF WOMEN VOTERS.

07:44 - IT'S REALLY TRANSLATES AS EQUAL

07:45 - AS THIS COURT SAID IN THE WOMAN

07:47 - VOTERS IT'S ABOUT HAVING AN

07:48 - EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO TRANSLATE

07:51 - VOTES INTO REPRESENTATION.

07:53 - SO THE IDEA YOU WOULDN'T HAVE

07:55 - DISTRICTS THAT ARE DESIGNED IN

07:56 - SUCH A WAY THAT NO MATTER WHAT

07:58 - THE OUTCOME IS YOU'RE GOING TO

08:00 - IN TERMS OF VOTER.

08:02 - TURNOUT AND WHO TO VOTING AND

08:03 - WHAT WHAT WHAT THE VOTE VOTERS

08:05 - ARE EXPRESSING. THAT THERE

08:07 - WOULD BE SOME.

08:09 - RESPONSIVENESS AND THAT'S THE

08:11 - KEY WORD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR

08:13 - NOW. THE EXAMPLE, THERE'S NO

08:14 - BETTER EXAMPLE THAN THE VERY

08:15 - CONGRESSIONAL MAP THAT THIS

08:17 - COURT. RULED IS

08:18 - UNCONSTITUTIONAL UNDER ARTICLE

08:20 - ONE SECTION 5. BACK IN

08:22 - 2018. AND THAT WAS A MAP THAT

08:24 - IN 2014. IN 2012 2014,

08:29 - 2016. PRODUCE THE

08:31 - SAME RESULT. IT WAS A 13 TO 5

08:34 - REPUBLICAN TO DEMOCRATIC

08:35 - OUTCOME. EVEN THOUGH THOSE

08:37 - ELECTIONS VARY BETWEEN

08:38 - REPUBLICAN

08:39 - LANDSLIDES AND DEMOCRATIC

08:41 - LANDSLIDE, IT WAS STILL GOING

08:42 - TO BE A 13 TO 5 RESULT. SO

08:44 - THAT WHICH OF COURSE IS

08:47 - PRESSURE NOW. BUT IT'S REALLY A

08:48 - WONDERFUL ILLUSTRATION OF WHAT

08:50 - IT MEANS TO BE NON-RESPONSIVE.

08:52 - SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS THE

08:53 - THE STATEWIDE VOTER TURNOUT AND

08:55 - YOU'RE TRYING TO SEE WHAT

08:57 - KIND OF MEASUREMENT OF WHAT

08:58 - KIND OF RESPONSE OF THERE WAS

09:00 - IT'S IN A

09:01 - IT'S REALLY NO DIFFERENT AND

09:02 - CREATING A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD

09:04 - IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN IN IN

09:06 - THAT LIGHT.

09:07 - WHERE WE HAD GONE TO THE MINUTE

09:09 - WE CONTINUE QUIT.

09:11 - >>WE DIDN'T REFLECT. THANK YOU

09:14 - YOUR HONOR.

09:16 - >>IN TERMS OF MEASURING THE

09:18 - PART OF VARIOUS PARTIES SAID

09:20 - EXPERT WITNESSES THEY WERE THEY

09:21 - WERE PRESENTING.

09:22 - TESTIMONY AT AT THE EVIDENCE

09:25 - YOU'RE HEARING UNDERTAKEN BY

09:26 - THE SPECIAL

09:26 - MASTER HERE. WE HAD PRESENTED A

09:29 - MIT PROFESSOR NAMED EVAN COLE

09:31 - WE TO GET AN ANALYSIS BUT THERE

09:33 - WERE OTHERS WHO RIVER PRESENTED

09:36 - AND NOW SHE'S IN AGAIN YOU'RE

09:37 - GOING TO HEAR THE SPECIFICS AND

09:39 - SOME OF THE TESTIMONY. BUT I

09:41 - JUST WANTED TO REINTRODUCE SOME

09:42 - OF THE IDEAS AND SOME OF THE.

09:46 - SOME OF THE WAYS PERHAPS TO

09:47 - DIFFERENTIATE OR OR CRITERIA TO

09:49 - LOOK FOR IN TERMS OF THOSE

09:51 - EXPERT RESPONSES.

09:55 - KENYAN IN.

09:57 - >>2018 AND LEAGUE OF WOMEN

09:58 - VOTERS LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD

10:00 - IN YOUR VIEW ABSOLUTELY AND.

10:03 - >>I THINK WE A 99 CONGRESSIONAL

10:07 - MAKEUP

10:07 - AND AGAIN IT'S NOT THAT WE NEED

10:09 - A BALANCE AND I JUST WANT TO

10:11 - MAKE THIS CLEAR AS DOCTOR CODY

10:13 - SET WE'RE NOT

10:14 - ADVOCATING NOBODY IS ADVOCATING

10:16 - FOR PROPORTIONAL GOVERNMENT IS

10:18 - IF WE ARE THE PARLIAMENT IN

10:20 - GREAT BRITAIN. IF YOU WIN 61%

10:23 - YOU GET 61% OF THE STATE NOBODY

10:25 - IS

10:25 - SAYING THAT RESPONSIVENESS

10:28 - MEANS THAT THE OUT YOU CAN

10:29 - EXPECT THE OUTCOMES TO DIFFER

10:31 - IF THERE'S THAT FOR INSTANCE, A

10:32 - REPUBLICAN LANDSLIDE YEAR

10:33 - VERSUS A DEMOCRATIC LANDSLIDE

10:35 - YEAR. IN THE CASE.

10:38 - JUSTICE TIME OF THE

10:39 - CONGRESSIONAL MAP THAT WAS NOT

10:41 - DEFERRING AT ALL BECAUSE IT WAS

10:42 - REALLY DESIGNED IN SUCH A WAY

10:43 - NOT TO BE RESPONSIBLE.

10:46 - SO THE PROPORTIONALITY WE'RE

10:47 - GOING HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT

10:49 - PROPORTIONATELY NOBODY HEARS

10:50 - ADVOCATING FOR A GREAT BRITAIN

10:52 - PARLIAMENTARIAN SYSTEM. WHAT

10:54 - RESPONSE OF THIS IF YOU JUST

10:55 - THINK ABOUT IT.

10:56 - PER THINK ABOUT A CURVE AT A 45

10:59 - DEGREE ANGLE AND WHERE WE'VE

11:00 - BEEN DEALING WITH LOTS OF

11:01 - STATISTICIANS AND AND MATH

11:03 - PHD'S BUT IT'S SIMPLE THAT IF

11:05 - YOUR VOTE IS LOWER YOU'RE GOING

11:06 - TO CAPTURE STATEWIDE IF YOU

11:08 - HAVE 45% OF THE VOTE STATEWIDE

11:10 - YOU'RE GOING TO CAPTURE LESS

11:11 - SEATS IF YOU HAVE 55% OF THE

11:13 - VOTE THAT SHOULD GO UP AND IT

11:15 - SHOULD GO UP

11:16 - AND DOWN FOR THE RESPECTIVE

11:18 - PARTIES THROUGH BUYING IF I

11:21 - WOULD YOU AGREE THAT ALL OF THE

11:23 - MAPS THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US.

11:26 - ESSENTIALLY ME BEFORE

11:28 - REQUIREMENTS WE INFORMING

11:30 - VOTERS.

11:31 - THE EQUALITY

11:35 - AND COMMUNITY.

11:37 - >>ETCETERA TO TO THE

11:38 - TRADITIONAL ART INTO EFFECT

11:39 - RIGHT YOU REFER TO AS THE

11:41 - FLOOR. THE FLOOR YES, I WOULD

11:43 - SAY I GENERALLY AGREE WITH THAT

11:45 - OKAY SO THEN

11:47 - IT WOULD BE THEN YOUR POSITION

11:49 - THAT THE TIE BREAKER IS THE

11:51 - PARTISAN FAIRNESS ANALYSIS.

11:53 - >>IS THAT CORRECT.

11:56 - >>YES GENERAL THAT I WOULD

11:57 - I WOULD ACTUALLY TREATED

11:58 - DIFFERENTLY THAN A TIE BREAKER.

12:00 - I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY THE

12:01 - CRITICAL COMPONENT UNDER

12:02 - ARTICLE ONE TO SAY IT IS INDEED

12:05 - ANOTHER.

12:06 - >>ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT OF

12:08 - BEING ALICE. THE FLOOR THAT WE

12:11 - STAFFED. PLUS PARTY

12:13 - THINK PARENTS.

12:15 - >>THAT'S THIS COURT CONSIDERED

12:17 - THE CASE THE FUSION VOTING CASE

12:19 - AND

12:20 - 2019. THE I THINK IT WAS

12:22 - WHETHER YOU CAN THAT YOU COULD

12:23 - BE ENDORSED BY 2 SEPARATE

12:24 - PARTIES. AND.

12:27 - THE ISSUE WASN'T VOTER DILUTION

12:29 - BECAUSE ARTICLE ONE SECTION 5.

12:31 - NOW THAT CASE DID NOT HAVE

12:33 - ANYTHING TO DO WITH COMPACTNESS

12:35 - ARE SPLITS BUT IT DEALT WITH

12:37 - THIS IDEA OF REPRESENTATION AND

12:39 - SO IN THAT SENSE. THE THE

12:42 - CRITICAL ISSUE IN ARTICLE ONE

12:43 - SECTION 5 IS THE FOR FREE, AN

12:47 - EVIL ELECTION. SO YOUR HONOR I

12:48 - WOULD JUST SLIGHTLY REPHRASE

12:50 - THAT

12:50 - IN THAT I THINK THE THE FLOOR

12:52 - CRITERIA REALLY GIVE INSIGHT

12:55 - INTO WHETHER

12:58 - FAIR AND REASONABLE MAP IS

12:59 - BEING DESIGNED. CERTAINLY THOSE

13:01 - ARE CRITERIA THAT IF YOU HAD

13:02 - ALL SORTS OF.

13:04 - CONTRIVED DISTRICTS THAT WOULD

13:06 - REFLECT.

13:08 - REJECTION OF COMMUNITIES OF

13:09 - INTEREST THAT WOULD BE

13:10 - INDICATIVE OF THE INABILITY OF

13:13 - CERTAIN COMMUNITIES TO HAVE

13:14 - A VOICE AND THAT'S WHAT WE SAW

13:16 - SPECIFICALLY IN THE IN THE

13:17 - CONGRESSIONAL MAP THAT ISSUE

13:19 - WHAT.

13:21 - >>I HAVE A FOLLOW-UP ON A

13:22 - JUSTICE HIS QUESTIONS. MISTER

13:24 - LIVING.

13:25 - CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT THE

13:27 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS SET AS

13:29 - ONE OF ITS A

13:30 - PRISTINE BENCHMARKS FOR

13:32 - FAIRNESS AND IN ASSESSING VOTER

13:35 - DILUTION.

13:37 - WHICH IS THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE A

13:39 - MAP WHICH DOES NOT DIVIDE ANY

13:41 - COUNTY CITY CORE PARADE TOWN

13:43 - BOROUGH TOWNSHIP ARE BOARD

13:45 - EXCEPT ARE NECESSARY TO ENSURE

13:46 - CAUGHT THE QUALITY OF

13:47 - POPULATION.

13:49 - HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY YOUR OPINION

13:52 - THAT THING CRACKING

13:54 - OF PITTSBURGH. IN THE 2

13:56 - SEPARATE DISTRICT MEETS THE

13:58 - FOUNDATIONAL FLOOR OF LEAGUE OF

14:00 - WOMEN VOTERS.

14:02 - >>THE NEXT QUESTION WAS GOING

14:03 - TO GET TO IT

14:04 - IN A FEW MINUTES, BUT I'M HAPPY

14:05 - TO ANSWER A GREAT AT THIS

14:07 - POINT. SO.

14:10 - THERE IS THIS ISSUE OF THE

14:12 - CRACKING AND PACKING WHICH ALSO

14:14 - DEALS WITH A VOICE WHICH ALSO

14:16 - DEALS WITH A VOICE AND

14:18 - REFLECTING THE THE ESSENTIALLY

14:21 - THE STATEWIDE TURNOUT TURNOVER

14:22 - TO CONGRESSIONAL MAP HAS

14:25 - STATEWIDE IMPLICATIONS. SO

14:27 - YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT

14:28 - STATEWIDE IMPLICATION IF YOU'RE

14:30 - CONSISTENTLY IN A SITUATION

14:31 - WHERE THE VOTERS ARE VOTING IN

14:32 - A 5050 PERCENT

14:34 - THAN THE CONGRESSIONAL MAKE UP

14:36 - JUST LIKE THE CURRENT MAKEUP,

14:37 - IT'S 99. SO THE QUESTION IS

14:39 - WHEN IS IT WHAT WHAT IS PACKED

14:41 - WITH HIS CRACKING AND PACKING

14:42 - PACKING IS WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING

14:44 - PEOPLE IN A CERTAIN DISTRICT

14:46 - AND THAT IS NOT ALWAYS

14:49 - A POSITIVE THINGS IN IT

14:51 - BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT THERE ARE

14:54 - MANY SITUATIONS WHERE YOU MIGHT

14:56 - A CERTAIN COMMUNITIES THAT

14:58 - HAVE A VOICE AND BY PUTTING

14:59 - TOGETHER AND ONE THEY COULD

15:00 - HAVE INFLUENCED 3 STATES BY

15:02 - THEIR POPULATION. INSTEAD THERE

15:04 - ARE ONLY DEALING WITH ONE SEAT

15:06 - CRACKING IS A SITUATION WHERE

15:08 - YOU MIGHT HAVE A TOWN LIKE SAY

15:10 - AN ALLENTOWN AND WE'RE BETTER

15:13 - THAN THAT I'M THINKING 7075

15:15 - 80,000 PEOPLE AND YOU SPLIT IN

15:17 - 4 DIFFERENT PARTS AND YOU

15:18 - CREATE LIKE A PIZZA PIE WERE

15:19 - THEY JUST HAVE A POINT SO

15:21 - THE PEOPLE IN ALLENTOWN IN THE

15:23 - NORTHEAST CORNER IN THE

15:24 - SOUTHEAST CORNER. THEY I REALLY

15:27 - DON'T HAVE AN INFLUENCE IN THE

15:28 - SEAT SO AS YOUR QUESTION ABOUT

15:30 - PITTSBURGH. THERE WERE. THERE

15:32 - ARE. THERE IS. THERE WAS

15:37 - DOCTOR NOT AMERICA

15:38 - KEITH NAUGHTON TESTIFIED ABOUT

15:41 - GIVING PITTSBURGH A VOICE.

15:44 - BUT PITTSBURGH HAS A VOICE AND

15:45 - IT'S THIS INTERESTING

15:46 - UNDERSTANDING THE GEOGRAPHIC

15:48 - LAY OUT OF

15:49 - ALLEGHENY COUNTY. NUMBER ONE

15:51 - PITTSBURGH HAS THE RIVERS

15:53 - OBVIOUSLY IT HAS THE DIVERSITY

15:54 - HAS YOU KNOW 83 YEAR 90 SOME

15:56 - NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE SOUTH

15:58 - WEST PORTION OF PITTSBURGH MAY

16:00 - BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN THAT

16:01 - NORTHEAST PORTION OF

16:02 - PITTSBURGH.

16:03 - >>I'VE GOT TO INTERRUPT YOU

16:06 - >>MISTER LE VINE JUST BECAUSE I

16:07 - THINK WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

16:09 - IS A COMMUNITY OF INTEREST AND

16:12 - I READ YOUR ANALYSIS OF

16:14 - PITTSBURGH BEING IN

16:16 - DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

16:17 - DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE RIVERS

16:19 - BUT. SINCE AT LEAST

16:22 - 1980. IT HAS NOT BEEN

16:25 - DIVIDED IT. THE POPULATION

16:27 - OF PITTSBURGH

16:28 - NEATLY FIT WITHIN ONE

16:31 - CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, IT'S

16:33 - NOT.

16:34 - >>WE'RE IN.

16:35 - >>MY UNDERSTANDING OF

16:37 - ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY WHICH

16:40 - JUSTICE MONDAY ASK ABOUT

16:42 - NECESSARY I THINK IT EVEN GOES

16:43 - BEYOND THAT IT WAS ABSOLUTELY

16:45 - NECESSARY TO

16:46 - USE TO SPLIT PITTSBURGH INTO

16:50 - 2 DISTRICTS SO THAT THAT WAS MY

16:52 - CONCERN THAT IT IS A COMMUNITY

16:54 - THAT AND I I GUESS TO CLARIFY

16:56 - IS. I READ

16:59 - YOUR BRIEF AND I UNDERSTAND.

17:01 - UNDERSTAND ABOUT COMMUNITIES OF

17:03 - INTEREST AND I THINK THE COURT

17:04 - UNDERSTANDS

17:05 - PACKING UNPACKING WHAT WE NEED

17:07 - WE HAVE ALL THESE MAPS

17:09 - THAT ARE TRYING TO ADHERE TO

17:13 - THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.

17:15 - BENCHMARKS AND WE HAVE ONES

17:18 - THAT HAVE LAST MEETING AND

17:19 - SPOKE RACKS

17:20 - ARE SPLITS THE KEY PITTSBURGH

17:22 - AS A WHOLE IT JUST DRIVES THE

17:24 - QUESTION.

17:27 - >>AND THAT'S FAIR, BUT I WOULD

17:29 - SUGGEST THAT BECAUSE THERE'S

17:30 - ALSO THIS ARTICLE ONE SECTION 5

17:32 - ANALYSIS OF GIVING A VOICE AND

17:35 - EVERY PEOPLE HAVE THAT

17:37 - OPPORTUNITY

17:37 - TO SPEAK WHAT'S INTERESTING IN

17:38 - PITTSBURGH FOR INSTANCE WITH

17:40 - THE MUNICIPALITY OF 300,000

17:41 - PEOPLE. IT'S ESSENTIALLY A

17:43 - TIMES LARGER THAN THE NEXT WHAT

17:45 - SIZE MUNICIPALITY.

17:49 - WE KNOW I THINK THAT MY ONLY

17:51 - POINT WAS THAT IF YOU SEE THE

17:53 - RIGHTLY BE SPLIT IN HALF ALONG

17:54 - THE RIVER, THE SPLIT IN

17:56 - HALF YOU HAVE A 150,000 PEOPLE

17:58 - AND THE TESTIMONY OF CONTROLLER

18:00 - LAMB WAS THERE ARE ACTUALLY

18:02 - COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST THAT

18:03 - ARE MORE CLOSELY AT

18:04 - ALIGNED AND TO ANSWER QUESTION

18:06 - JUDGE MONDAY. THERE'S THERE

18:07 - WOULD BE NOTHING WRONG

18:09 - WITH WE HAVE IN PITTSBURGH

18:11 - TOGETHER WE'RE NOT GOING TO

18:12 - ADVOCATE THAT BUT THE QUESTION

18:13 - WOULD BE IF THE MAP THEN WE HAD

18:16 - ONE OF THE MAKE

18:18 - IS HERE SAID THEY WERE TAKING

18:19 - PART OF PITTSBURGH IN SOUTH

18:21 - HILL TO BRING IT DOWN TO

18:22 - WASHINGTON COUNTY WOULDN'T BE

18:23 - APPROPRIATE AND SO THAT

18:25 - THE QUESTION IS WHAT YOU END UP

18:27 - WITH WITH THE 2 MAPS WOULD VERY

18:28 - WELL MAY BE THAT BY NOT

18:29 - SPLITTING PITTSBURGH, YOU COME

18:31 - UP WITH THAT DISTRICT THAT

18:32 - REALLY IS IS KIND OF NOT ANY

18:35 - TYPE OF COMMUNITIES OF

18:36 - INTEREST. SO HISTORICALLY I

18:38 - KNOW SOME OF THE JUSTICES WILL

18:40 - RECALL THE CONGRESSIONAL SEE

18:42 - THAT RICK SANTORUM HAD FOR

18:43 - INSTANCE WAS A RING AROUND THE

18:45 - ENTIRE CITY. NOW YOU'RE GOING

18:46 - BACK TO THAT THAT OLD DAYS THE

18:49 - BATTLE OF ME.

18:51 - FOCUSING ON THE POST THE WOMEN

18:54 - VOTERS WORLD.

18:58 - ON THE ONE HAND, YOUR MAP IS.

19:02 - ONE OF

19:02 - THE LEAST IF NOT TIED FOR THE

19:05 - LEAST FOR DESERVING OF THE

19:06 - COURSE OF THE CURRENTLY WOMEN

19:09 - VOTERS MATT.

19:10 - >>AND

19:11 - GIVEN THAT.

19:12 - >>WHY WOULD SERVE

19:14 - THE VALUES ARTICULATED THE

19:16 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS TO

19:18 - SPLIT. A CITY THAT DOESN'T NEED

19:20 - TO BE SPLIT.

19:21 - I AND REMEMBER YOU HAVE FOR

19:23 - PITTSBURGH-AREA JUSTICES APPEAR

19:26 - TO YOU'RE TRYING TO SELL A

19:28 - SPLIT. WE'RE BETWEEN

19:30 - PITTSBURGH. ON THE NORTH SIDE

19:33 - I'M ON IN PITTSBURGH ON THE

19:34 - SOUTH SIDE OF THE MORNING.

19:35 - >>AND FURTHER WHY IT IS

19:37 - ABSOLUTELY

19:38 - NECESSARY THAT JUST WHAT WE

19:40 - FOUND WHEN WE GOT THERE YOU IF

19:42 - YOU YOUR 11 MINUTES FOR YOU

19:43 - TO THAT.

19:44 - >>WE ANSWER JUST AS WHAT'S

19:45 - QUESTION WE'LL SEE IF THERE ARE

19:47 - ANY OTHER PLACE TO HEAR

19:49 - INCLUSION. WELL I THINK THE

19:52 - ANSWER IS THAT UNDER ARTICLE

19:54 - ONE

19:54 - SECTION 5 I THINK THAT THERE

19:56 - CAN BE SOME CONSIDERATIONS TO

19:57 - ENSURE THAT THERE'S A VOICE AND

19:59 - THAT THERE'S COMMUNITIES ARE

20:00 - REFLECTIVE AND I THINK.

20:02 - >>YOU KNOW TO MAKE PITTSBURGH,

20:03 - JOE PEOPLE DON'T CROSS RIVERS

20:05 - SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION

20:06 - JUST AS WHAT MIGHT BE THAT THAT

20:08 - THE ALIGNMENT OF CERTAIN

20:09 - COMMUNITIES THAT EVEN THOUGH

20:10 - IT'S A CITY

20:12 - THE ALIGNMENT OF COMMUNITIES OF

20:13 - INTEREST IS CLOSER FROM THE

20:14 - SOUTH HILLS TO THE LIFE AND

20:16 - THE CONTROLLER HAS A FELLOW

20:18 - OFFICER BACK AND I WAS ALSO A

20:20 - POLITICIAN HE CROSSES THAT

20:22 - EVERY SINGLE DAY.

20:24 - >>WHY SUNDAY, WASHINGTON

20:26 - DOWNTOWN DOWNTOWN NOT

20:27 - IMMEDIATELY IS A BUT I THINK

20:29 - IT'S A REDS, A

20:33 - I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO

20:34 - SAY THAT YOU COULD NEVER FIND A

20:36 - SITUATION DARYN ONE TO SEE THAT

20:39 - A SPLIT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO

20:40 - GIVE A VOICE BUT AGAIN I DON'T

20:42 - KNOW I'M I'M NOT GOING TO SAY

20:44 - THAT IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

20:46 - I CAN SAY THAT BUT I DO THINK

20:47 - IT'S A

20:48 - CRITERIA BECAUSE I THINK UNDER

20:50 - ARTICLE ONE SECTION 5 IS

20:51 - DISTINCT FROM THAT PERHAPS

20:52 - THE LRC THIS IS A SITUATION

20:55 - UNDER THE SPECIFIC CONTROL OF

20:56 - ARTICLE 2 SECTION 16. I

20:59 - THINK THIS IS LIKE A GUN AND

21:00 - HAS A QUESTION OR 2

21:03 - >>WHERE THAT WILL MOVE TO SOME

21:04 - MIGHT BE YES OR NO ANSWER MAYBE

21:06 - NOT HAHA.

21:09 - THAT'S KEEPING POLITICAL

21:10 - SUBDIVISIONS HOLE TRUM THE

21:14 - COMPACT THIS REQUIREMENT.

21:19 - >>THERE'S NO CLARITY ON THAT I

21:20 - WOULD SAY NOT NECESSARILY AND I

21:22 - THINK THERE'S SOME JAI THINK

21:23 - THERE'S SOME JUDGMENT HERE AND

21:24 - IT AND AGAIN AS CHIEF JUSTICE

21:26 - NOTED YOU'RE SITTING IN YOUR

21:27 - ORIGINAL JURISDICTION. I THINK

21:28 - YOU HAVE FLEXIBILITY THERE IS

21:30 - NO IN TERMS OF THESE 4

21:32 - CRITERIA.

21:34 - >>WHEN YOU HEAR MATT SPLITTING

21:36 - PITTSBURGH, AND I WOULD SAY

21:37 - CRACKING IT, BUT I WOULD SAY

21:38 - SPLITTING PITTSBURGH CREATES A

21:40 - MORE COMPACT WELL AND I THINK

21:42 - THERE'S SOME ADVANTAGE THAT I'M

21:43 - ASKING TO AND I I WOULD JUST

21:45 - SIMPLY SAY THAT

21:45 - THERE'S NO PRIORITY NECESSARILY

21:48 - THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT YOU'RE

21:49 - CONSIDERING VARIOUS ISSUES.

21:51 - >>JUST QUICKLY BEFORE MY TIME

21:52 - EXPIRES I DO WANT TO JUST

21:54 - ADDRESSED. LET ME GIVE YOU 2

21:57 - MINUTES.

21:58 - >>AS OF NOW TO 2 TELL US THE

22:01 - MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WANT

22:02 - TO TELL US.

22:06 - WELL I JUST WANT TO JUST

22:07 - KNOW THAT. SOME OF THE

22:09 - RESPONSES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO

22:10 - HEAR TODAY CONCERNING

22:12 - THE WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN END

22:15 - UP WITH A 99 MAP OR IN OUR CASE

22:16 - IS REALLY LOSING A SEAT SINCE

22:18 - THEN A DAY TO ONE MAN WHICH

22:20 - REALLY IS FAIR AND REFLECTS A

22:21 - STATE ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS YOU

22:23 - OFTEN HEAR IS THAT

22:24 - THE GEOGRAPHY OF PENNSYLVANIA

22:26 - SUCH THAT THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO

22:27 - DO. AND AND AND THAT'S JUST NOT

22:31 - A VALID RATIONALE UNDER THE

22:33 - UNDER ARTICLE ONE SECTION 5 AND

22:35 - THE REASON THAT THE GEOGRAPHY

22:37 - YOU KNOW, MAKE AN ANALOGY.

22:39 - WE'RE HILLY STATE

22:40 - AND YET SOMEHOW EVERY HIGH

22:41 - SCHOOL FOOTBALL STATE OF

22:42 - PENNSYLVANIA CAN BE ON A LEVEL

22:44 - PLAYING FIELD.

22:45 - THERE'S WAYS THAT YOU CAN

22:46 - CREATE AND LOOK AT A LEVEL

22:48 - PLAYING FIELD AND THAT IS DONE

22:50 - IS WHAT IS THE EXPERTS HAVE

22:51 - TESTIFIED YOU CAN PUT IN THE 4

22:53 - CRITERIA IS JUST A STUNNING YOU

22:55 - ALLUDED TO IT, YOU KNOW THE

22:56 - FLOOR CRITERIA AND YOU CAN SPIT

22:58 - OUT 50,000 MAPS AND AN HOUR AND

23:01 - THE 50,000 MAPS AN HOUR THEN

23:03 - ALL MEET THOSE 4 CRITERIA, BUT

23:04 - THEN YOU CAN MEASURE PARTISAN.

23:06 - AND WHEN YOU MEASURE THE PERSON

23:07 - WHO ACTUALLY HAVE A BELL CURVE.

23:09 - AND SO THERE ARE CERTAIN THAT

23:10 - WILL BE EXTREMELY DEMOCRATIC

23:11 - CERTAIN WANT TO SPIT OUT IS

23:12 - EXTREMELY REPUBLICAN AND

23:14 - THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH IN THE

23:15 - MIDDLE THAT YOU BECOME OUT WITH

23:16 - YOUR 8 DAY TO WONDER 99 TO

23:18 - WHATEVER THIS AND UNDER LEAGUE

23:20 - OF WOMEN VOTERS THAT'S AN

23:21 - APPROPRIATE EXERCISE AND SO THE

23:23 - NOTION THAT WE'RE ALL STANDING

23:25 - HERE HELPLESS WHEN WE

23:26 - LOOK AT 50,000 MAPS AND 20,000

23:28 - OF THEM MIGHT CREATE A 15,000

23:30 - OF THEM MAY CREATE I AM A

23:32 - FAIR MAP. SHOULD

23:34 - REJECT THE NOTION WHEN PEOPLE

23:36 - TELL YOU THAT THERE'S THERE'S

23:37 - SIMPLY THE PARTISAN ROLE HERE.

23:39 - THE FINAL THING. JUST ONE

23:41 - QUESTION, I'M SORRY.

23:43 - >>CHIEF JUSTICE IF I'M THROWING

23:44 - YEAR. TIME OFF BUT.

23:48 - >>I HAVE A DIFFICULT

23:52 - YOU ARE

23:53 - DISCUSSION ABOUT POLITICAL

23:55 - GEOGRAPHY AND AND JUST FROM A

23:57 - COMMON

23:57 - SENSE STANDPOINT.

23:59 - >>AND FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF

24:00 - HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO RUN

24:02 - STAY TRY THE CROSSED.

24:04 - PENNSYLVANIA. THERE ARE AREAS

24:08 - IN THE STATE FOR EXAMPLE.

24:11 - PITTSBURGH

24:12 - PHILADELPHIA, ERIE CENTRE

24:14 - COUNTY JUST FOR EXAMPLES THAT

24:16 - ARE WEIGHTED HEAVILY

24:18 - DEMOCRATIC AND AS

24:20 - EVERYBODY I NOT COMMONLY

24:22 - UNDERSTOOD THE T OF

24:23 - PENNSYLVANIA IS PREDOMINANTLY

24:25 - REPUBLICAN DOESN'T THAT TYPE

24:28 - OF SCENARIO CONTRADICT WHAT YOU

24:31 - YOU JUST SAID WITH REGARD TO

24:33 - THE POLITICAL GEOGRAPHY OF

24:35 - PENNSYLVANIA, NO NO

24:36 - RESPECTFULLY BECAUSE I WOULD

24:38 - AGREE WITH YOU.

24:40 - >>THAT WILL BE VERY HARD TO

24:41 - CREATE A DEMOCRATIC MEETING

24:42 - SEAT IN NORTH CENTRAL

24:44 - AND PENNSYLVANIA. IT WOULD BE

24:46 - VERY HARD TO CREATE A

24:47 - REPUBLICAN LEANING SEE WITHIN

24:48 - THE CITY LIMITS OF

24:49 - PHILADELPHIA. IT IS STATEWIDE

24:51 - LEVEL THIS COURT DID IT IN 2018

24:54 - DID IT SUCCESSFULLY

24:56 - AND IT'S A WONDERFUL THING FOR

24:58 - OUR DEMOCRACY THAT THERE'S SOME

24:59 - RESPONSIVENESS THERE SO WE KNOW

25:01 - WHAT COULD BE DONE FOR YEARS

25:02 - AGO, MANY OF THESE MAPS WE DO

25:05 - HAVE THAT SORT OF PARITY

25:07 - AND YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE

25:08 - OUTSIDE OF THE EXTREME WHEN

25:09 - YOU'RE MAYBE OUTSIDE OF THE

25:10 - CITY OF PHILADELPHIA ARE

25:11 - OUTSIDE OF THE NORTH

25:12 - CENTRAL THEN THERE'S

25:14 - OPPORTUNITIES. 2 GREAT

25:15 - DISTRICTS THAT HAVE RESPONDED

25:17 - COMMUNITIES INTO ONE. ANOTHER

25:18 - EXAMPLE, FRANCE'S THERE ARE

25:19 - SMALLER COMMUNITIES, BUT THEY

25:21 - HAVE METROPOLITAN AREAS AND

25:22 - THEY IDENTIFY AS ONE WHERE YOU

25:24 - COULD SPLIT AGAIN YOU COULD

25:25 - CRACK WE'RE NOT THE LAST THING

25:27 - I WOULD JUST LIKE THE COVERS MY

25:28 - KIND OF IT IS CLOSE TO

25:29 - EXPIRING.

25:31 - BUT THE NOTION OF WHAT IS

25:32 - PARTISAN AND HOW WE MEASURE

25:34 - THAT AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

25:36 - AND WHY IS IT THAT THE MAP THAT

25:38 - WAS RECOMMENDED BY THE

25:39 - SPECIAL MASTER

25:40 - WHICH IS KIND OF IRONIC IT WAS

25:42 - THAT HOUSE REPUBLICAN MAP THAT

25:44 - WAS RECOMMENDED AND AND DESPITE

25:46 - A GEOGRAPHIC, LEANING AS AS

25:49 - THEY HAVE ADVOCATED.

25:50 - THEY ARE ASSERTING THAT IT'S

25:51 - ACTUALLY

25:52 - 98 DEMOCRATIC MAP AND AGAIN

25:55 - DATING MYSELF JUSTICE WECHT BUT

25:56 - IN THE SPIRIT OF COLOMBO WHO

25:58 - MIGHT SCRATCH HIS HEAD AND

25:59 - WONDER HOW WAS IT THAT THEY HAD

26:01 - A 98 MAP

26:02 - WITH THE THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND

26:04 - THE REASON IS IS AS DOCTOR

26:05 - KELLY POINTED OUT IT REALLY

26:07 - DEPENDS ON

26:07 - YOUR BASELINE. AND HE POINTED

26:09 - OUT THAT THE BASELINE OF THAT

26:11 - MAP ASSUMES A 54% DEMOCRATIC

26:13 - TURNOUT STATEWIDE TO OTHERS IN

26:15 - A LANDSLIDE YEAR.

26:17 - YOU CAN CREATE A BASELINE THAT

26:19 - IS VERY DECEPTIVE AND WHEN YOU

26:21 - GO BACK DOWN TO A 50%. YEAR

26:23 - THAT WOULD BECOME A VERY

26:24 - HEAVILY REPUBLICAN STATE

26:26 - WE'RE LESS AND IT GOES DOWN AND

26:27 - AGAIN THAT GOES TO THE SCORE OF

26:29 - RESPONSIVENESS ONE OF THE

26:30 - QUESTIONS WE'RE TALKING TODAY.

26:32 - WHAT'S THE BASELINE ONE OF THE

26:33 - ELECTIONS THAT YOU USE

26:35 - OUR MAPS ARE FAIR IN THE SENSE

26:37 - DOCTOR COREY PREPARED AND

26:38 - INDICATED

26:38 - WAS ACTUALLY THEY AVERAGE JUST

26:39 - CAME OUT TO A 41% REPUBLICAN

26:42 - AVERAGE OVER A NUMBER OF

26:43 - ELECTIONS AND

26:44 - THE PARTISAN. A MAKEUP OF THEIR

26:47 - INDICATED A RESPONSIVENESS SO

26:48 - IT'S NOT JUST A 50% YOU WANT TO

26:50 - SEE THAT HAVE

26:51 - THE VOTES UP TO 54% THERE'S A

26:53 - CHANGE IN AND OUT OF 40 SO WHAT

26:54 - WAS HIS JOB.

26:56 - PROJECTION IN TERMS OF

26:57 - DEMOCRATIC OR NOT YOU SHOULD

26:59 - 41% WHAT HE'S WHAT HE SAID IS

27:01 - HE TOO HE SAID THE APPS THE

27:03 - BASELINE OF THESE AVERAGES WAS

27:04 - THAT STATEWIDE TO BE

27:06 - 51% REPUBLICAN TURNOUT WAS

27:07 - SLIGHTLY REPUBLICAN IN TERMS OF

27:09 - THE SAMPLING THAT HE ABUSED

27:10 - SLIGHTLY BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY A

27:12 - 5050 AND THAT'S WHAT

27:13 - DOES IT. WE HAVE ONE LAST

27:14 - QUESTION THAT

27:15 - MY PLEASURE.

27:17 - >>ARE ARE YOU AND YOUR CLIENTS

27:19 - GENERALLY IN ACCORD WITH

27:22 - ANALYSIS THAT WAS PERFORMED BY

27:24 - DOCTOR FORD WHERE HE I DID AN

27:28 - ANALYSIS OF ALL OF THE MAP SHE

27:30 - THING THE BASELINE INFORMATION.

27:32 - YES, WE'RE OKAY, THANK YOU FOR

27:33 - DOING THAT.

27:34 - >>AND THEN JUST THE BILL IF I

27:36 - COULD MAKE THAT WE GET INTO

27:37 - THAT WE HAVE THE LAST POINT IS

27:39 - WE THINK WE SHOULD

27:39 - RUN TOGETHER FOR THE SAME

27:41 - REASONS AS I SAID THE SAME THE

27:42 - VOTERS HAVE TO SAY ALSO THE

27:43 - STATE SENATE WE SHOULD RUN

27:45 - TOGETHER.

27:46 - >>THERE IT'S A IT'S AN

27:47 - AGGRESSIVE MAP OR AGGRESSIVE

27:48 - SCHEDULE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED.

27:50 - THERE ARE SITUATIONS THAT I

27:52 - THINK COULD CUT DOWN TIME I

27:53 - THINK.

27:54 - JUST AS PROPS IN HIS EXPERIENCE

27:56 - OF RUNNING ELECTION WITH WHAT

27:58 - WE KNOW THERE THERE MAY BE ARE

27:59 - IMPROVEMENTS AND

28:00 - WE'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE SOME SORT

28:01 - OF BIPARTISAN EFFORT TO TRY TO

28:03 - CUT DOWN THE SCHEDULE WERE NOT

28:05 - MANY BIPARTISANSHIP THANK YOU

28:07 - THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

28:09 - NEXT ARGUMENT WILL BE PRESENTED

28:10 - ON BEHALF OF CONGRESS BEEN

28:12 - ARRESTED INSTALLER MISTER

28:14 - HAVERSTICK.

28:23 - WE'VE NOT BEEN OUTSTANDINGLY

28:25 - SUCCESSFUL IN MAINTAINING OUR

28:26 - OWN DISCIPLINE BUT NOT

28:28 - WITHSTANDING WILL TRY AGAIN 2

28:29 - MINUTES.

28:31 - >>THANK YOU YOUR

28:32 - HONORS MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT

28:34 - MY NAME IS MATT HAVERSTICK AND

28:35 - I

28:36 - REPRESENT THE DENOMINATED

28:38 - CONGRESSIONAL INTERVENE ERS ALL

28:40 - ADD THERE ARE A COUPLE NOT

28:41 - CONGRESS MEN AND WOMEN IN THAT

28:43 - GROUP.

28:47 - WHEN

28:48 - THIS COURT CONCENTRATES

28:50 - ON THE NEUTRAL

28:52 - CONSTITUTIONALLY ARTICULATED

28:54 - PRINCIPLES THAT YOU USED IN THE

28:56 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS. AND

28:58 - WHEN THIS COURT CONSIDERS.

29:01 - NEW TRULY

29:02 - AND NATURALLY. THE THE

29:05 - GEOGRAPHY OF PENNSYLVANIA AND

29:07 - SPECIFICALLY WHERE PEOPLE IN

29:08 - PENNSYLVANIA HAVE CHOSEN TO

29:10 - LIVE WHERE THEY HAVE PUT

29:11 - THEMSELVES.

29:15 - SOMETHING STARTS TO HAPPEN

29:16 - WITH ALL OF THE MAPS THAT ARE

29:17 - IN THIS CASE THEY START TO SORT

29:19 - THEMSELVES AND WHAT YOU FIND

29:22 - WHEN YOU CONSIDER THESE

29:23 - PRINCIPLES THESE

29:24 - NEUTRAL PRINCIPLES AND IT IS

29:26 - THAT THE MAP START TO GROUP

29:27 - THEMSELVES IN TO THOSE THAT ARE

29:29 - GENUINELY CREATING COMMUNITIES

29:32 - OF INTEREST IN THE BROADEST

29:33 - SENSE NOT JUST. AND AS I THINK

29:35 - DOCTOR NOT CALL THEM, RED AND

29:38 - BLUE PEGS WHICH IT'S BUT

29:40 - IN TERMS OF COMMUNITY TO PEOPLE

29:42 - WHO HAVE LOTS

29:43 - OF DIFFERENT THOUGHTS AND HOPES

29:44 - AND DREAMS AND LIKES AND

29:46 - DISLIKES AND LIKES CERTAIN

29:47 - SPORTS TEAMS AND WATCH TV IN

29:49 - CERTAIN MARKETS. THERE ARE MAPS

29:51 - THAT ARE VERY GOOD AT THAT AND

29:53 - THEN THEN THERE ARE MAPS THAT

29:54 - ARE. THEY ARE NOT SO GOOD

29:56 - BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO DO

29:57 - SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN THAT

29:59 - HERE TO NEUTRAL PRINCIPLES AND

30:01 - OTHER THEN MATCH. AGAIN THE

30:04 - POLITICAL GEOGRAPHY OF OF

30:06 - THE COMMONWEALTH. I SUBMIT TO

30:08 - THE COURT THAT THE RUSSIAN

30:09 - DOLLAR MAPS WANTED TO. WE ARE

30:12 - IN THAT ORDER OF MAPS

30:15 - THAT ARE CAPTURING A VERY REAL

30:18 - ORGANIC NATURAL WAY

30:20 - WHERE PEOPLE LIVE AND WHAT THEY

30:23 - THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY CARE

30:24 - ABOUT THAT IS THE COMMUNITIES

30:25 - OF INTEREST THAT WE ALL CARE SO

30:27 - MUCH ABOUT AND FRANKLY

30:28 - UNDERLYING OR THE POINT OF THE

30:30 - APPLICATION OF THE ARTICLE 2

30:33 - SECTION 16 PRINCIPLES. AND I'D

30:35 - URGE THE COURT FOR THAT REASON

30:38 - TO ACCEPT ONE OF THOSE MAPS

30:39 - AS THE MAP TO BE FOR THE FOR

30:43 - THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE BEYOND.

30:48 - WELL IT'S OPEN TO QUESTIONS

30:50 - COUNCIL MAYBE YOU COULD AND I'M

30:52 - TRYING TO PEOPLE ON MY MAPS IN

30:53 - MY MIND NEED TO.

30:58 - >>BUT I KNOW YOU KNOW

30:59 - YOUR MASKS I GET TO DO PLANS

31:02 - THAT YOUR CLIENTS I'VE PUT

31:04 - BEFORE THE COURTS WITH

31:06 - WASHINGTON COUNTY.

31:09 - >>I I BELIEVE THAT THAT THERE

31:11 - IS A WASHINGTON COUNTY SPLIT

31:12 - YES, YOU KNOW, AND LET ME ASK

31:13 - ABOUT THAT I'M INTERESTED IN

31:15 - THIS WAY AND NOW WITH THE 2

31:17 - GAVE IT.

31:19 - >>IS THERE A PRIORITY.

31:22 - >>THAT.

31:23 - >>THE FEWER SPLIT SHOULD TAKE

31:25 - PLACE AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.

31:28 - >>BECAUSE THAT IS

31:30 - THE PREDOMINANT POLITICAL

31:33 - SUBDIVISION SO TO SPEAK IN

31:34 - PENNSYLVANIA. I I WOULD I WOULD

31:36 - ARGUE, YES, YOUR HONOR I THINK

31:38 - ONE OF THE REASONS OUR MAP IS

31:39 - SO GOOD AND THAT SCORE IS OURS

31:41 - IS THE BEST IN TERMS OF COUNTY

31:43 - SPLITS AMONG ALL THE MATCH.

31:44 - >>AT AT 13, THAT'S THE VIEW WAS

31:46 - COUNTY SPLIT. AND IN THIS AD

31:48 - DOES THAT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT

31:50 - THAT CHESTER COUNTY DISMISS.

31:52 - >>YEAH THAT THAT THE BIRMINGHAM

31:54 - TOWNSHIP N WHEN WE DON'T HAVE

31:56 - THAT THAT IS AN ISSUE IN OUR

31:58 - MAP IT IS AN ISSUE I THINK IN

31:59 - THE CARTER MAP OKAY LET ME GET

32:00 - BACK TO THIS WEDDING

32:02 - WASHINGTON COUNTY. THEN IF

32:03 - WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT THAT

32:06 - AND I THINK I MIGHT AGREE WITH

32:07 - YOU I DON'T KNOW WE'VE NEVER

32:08 - SAID IF THE PREDOMINATE

32:11 - THE ANALYSIS.

32:12 - >>SHOULD BE ON THE AWARD CASE

32:15 - POLITICAL SUBDIVISION IT

32:17 - COUNTIES. THEN WHY WOULD WE BE

32:19 - MORE CONCERNED ABOUT SPLITTING

32:21 - WASHINGTON COUNTY WHEN IT NEED

32:23 - NOT BE SPLIT THEN SPLITTING THE

32:25 - CITY

32:26 - OF PITTSBURGH. IT'S AN

32:29 - EXCELLENT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR

32:30 - I THINK THE ANSWER IS TOO FULL.

32:36 - FIRST WASHINGTON COUNTY THEY

32:39 - ARE GOING TO BE WE CONCEDE

32:40 - EVERYBODY CAN SEAT THAT WHEN

32:41 - YOU'RE GOING FROM.

32:43 - >>18 SEATS TO 17 SEAT. YOU'RE

32:46 - GOING TO HAVE TO SPLIT.

32:48 - FRANKLY IT'S REMARKABLE THAT WE

32:49 - MANAGE I THINK THE SPLIT LESS

32:50 - THAN IN THE LAST MAP

32:53 - >>PLACE MUCH LESS AS WE DID THE

32:54 - LAST NIGHT WE'RE GOING TO SPLIT

32:56 - SOME COUNTIES. I THINK THE

32:57 - TRICK IS SPLITTING.

33:00 - JURISDICTIONS WHETHER THEY BE

33:02 - COUNTIES OR LARGE CITIES FOR

33:04 - REASONS THAT ARE PERMISSIBLE

33:06 - AND A PERMISSIBLE REASON TO

33:08 - SPLIT COUNTY FOR INSTANCE MAYBE

33:10 - THAT THAT'S JUST HOW THE MATH

33:12 - WORKS IN THAT PART OF THE STATE

33:15 - CONTRAST THAT WITH THE SPLIT OF

33:16 - PITTSBURGH, WHICH

33:18 - HAS THERE WAS NO RECORD

33:20 - EVIDENCE PRESENTED THAT THE

33:21 - SPLIT OF PITTSBURGH WAS

33:22 - NECESSARY FOR ANY REASON OTHER

33:24 - THAN PARTISAN POLITICS. THERE

33:25 - IS NO EVIDENCE THAT IT WE'VE

33:27 - BEEN PROPOSED

33:27 - PARTISAN POLITICS.

33:29 - >>THAT WE'VE BEEN SOMETHING BUT

33:30 - I MEAN THERE IS NO EVIDENCE

33:32 - THAT IS I THINK I KNOW WHAT IT

33:34 - WAS A SET ANOTHER WAY WHEN

33:36 - ASKED NO ONE CAN

33:36 - JUSTIFY REASON. WE'RE

33:38 - SPLITTING PITTSBURGH. THAT

33:40 - WASN'T BASED ON CREATING 2

33:42 - SEASON. I DO THINK THERE'S

33:43 - RECORD EVIDENCE I CAN HELP YOU

33:44 - WE I THINK YOU'RE ARGUING IS

33:45 - THAT THERE'S AN INFERENCE OF

33:47 - GERRYMANDERING

33:48 - THE EYE. WE'RE CALL YOUR HONOR

33:51 - THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SO

33:52 - THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME

33:53 - TESTIMONY THAT SOMEONE SAYS

33:54 - SPECIFICALLY WE'RE SPLITTING

33:55 - PITTSBURGH TO CREATE 2

33:56 - COMPETITIVE DEMOCRATIC SEAT.

34:00 - IN

34:00 - THE SOUTHWEST.

34:01 - >>BUT IN MAY I ASK YOU THIS IS

34:03 - A FOLLOW-UP TO JUSTICE. DONNA

34:05 - WHAT I THINK

34:06 - THE ISSUE THE CITY IT'S PRETTY

34:08 - SPLIT ALREADY.

34:09 - >>AND THE DOMINATING HERE TO

34:12 - ALLEGHENY COUNTY.

34:14 - AS MORE PEOPLE THAN A

34:15 - CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

34:17 - THEREFORE ALLEGHENY COUNTY HAS

34:19 - TO BE SPLIT UNDER ONE PERSON

34:21 - ONE VOTE THEORY. IF

34:23 - THAT SO WHY ISN'T

34:25 - SPLIT THAT THE CITY ALONG THE

34:27 - RIVER IF

34:28 - YOU WILL AS PALATABLE AS

34:31 - LOPPING OFF THE NORTH HILLS

34:33 - WHICH IS OUR REPUBLIC IN OR THE

34:34 - SOUTH ONE VALLEY WHICH

34:36 - DEMOCRATS BEGIN WELCOME FROM

34:38 - PITTSBURGH. SO WE AT LEAST

34:39 - GENERALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND YOU

34:41 - HAVE THE DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE I

34:42 - COME FROM I COME FROM

34:44 - >>BUT I.

34:50 - I I THINK THE ANSWER IS AGAIN

34:52 - WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GROUP

34:53 - COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST THE WAY

34:55 - AT LEAST THE RUSSIANS ARE

34:56 - MAPPED WIESE OFF A LITTLE BIT

34:58 - OF ALLEGHENY COUNTY BUT

35:00 - PREDOMINANTLY KEEPS PITTSBURGH

35:01 - WITH THE BULK OF ALLEGHENY

35:02 - COUNTY IS A WAY THAT THAT AT

35:05 - LEAST DOCTOR NOT AN.

35:07 - TESTIFIED IT MAKES SENSE FOR

35:09 - THOSE COMMUNITIES. THE THERE'S

35:10 - NO THERE'S NEVER GOING TO BE

35:12 - PERFECTION IN IN ANY OF THE

35:14 - SPLITS THAT WE DO BUT I THINK

35:15 - WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THE

35:17 - CONSIDERATION OF ONE ESPECIALLY

35:19 - FOR SPLITS THAT THEY ARE

35:20 - TRULY MINIMAL

35:22 - AND BIG URGE AND THE BIGGER THE

35:23 - JURISDICTION. I THINK THE MORE

35:25 - EXPLANATION YOU NEED TO GIVE IF

35:26 - YOU

35:27 - SPLIT IT AND AND AS THE

35:30 - EXPLANATIONS I THINK.

35:32 - YOU SHOULD LOOK AT WHERE THIS

35:34 - WHICH OCCUR IF YOU COUNTY FOR

35:38 - WE SPLIT MONROE, BUT LOOK AT

35:40 - WHERE WE SPLIT MONROE WHERE WE

35:42 - SPLIT MONROE

35:43 - GROUPS EAST STROUDSBURG

35:45 - UNIVERSITY IN A DISTRICT THAT

35:46 - CUTS DOWN AND AND CAPTURES

35:48 - OTHER MAJOR UNIVERSITIES IN IN

35:50 - THE EASTERN NORTHEASTERN PART

35:51 - OF THE STATE LIKE YOU KNOW LIKE

35:53 - WE I AND LAFAYETTE

35:55 - AND THEN THE OTHER PART OF THE

35:56 - ROAD IS IS IS MORE PROPERLY IN

35:58 - THE POCONOS A LOSER A DAUPHIN

36:02 - I SPLIT IT IN

36:04 - OUR MAP IS VERY PURPOSEFUL IT'S

36:06 - RIGHT AROUND

36:07 - WHAT WERE THE RED RABBIT IS

36:09 - MEAN I GOING TO PENN STATE

36:10 - GAMES AS A KID FROM LANCASTER,

36:12 - WHEN I GOT EVEN AS A LITTLE

36:14 - KID WHEN WE STARTED GOING UP

36:16 - AROUND IN CANON AND GOING

36:17 - TOWARDS TO COLLEGE I I SORT OF

36:19 - FELT LIKE I WAS IN A DIFFERENT

36:20 - PART OF THE STATE AND WE GOT BY

36:22 - THE RED RABBIT WHERE THEY'RE

36:23 - YOU KNOW WHERE THE SHOOTER IS

36:24 - NOW THE BIG CHEESE IN THE BIG

36:25 - RUNNERS IT THE DUO'S THIS WHICH

36:28 - THAT THE RUSSIAN DOLLAR MAPS

36:29 - MAKE ARE ONES THAT

36:31 - TRACKED GEOGRAPHY THAT

36:33 - THAT TRACKED UPPER MERELY

36:35 - GEOGRAPHY BUT SOMETIMES A

36:38 - POLITICAL BORDERS, TOO EVEN

36:40 - WHEN THEY'RE SPLITTING

36:41 - COUNTIES, MISTER HAMPSHIRE.

36:42 - >>OH I'M SORRY ARE YOU FINISHED

36:44 - WITH THAT NO ONE

36:45 - AND DONE. IN FOLLOW-UP TO

36:47 - JUSTICE TANI HIS QUESTION ABOUT

36:49 - YOU KNOW

36:50 - IS THAT DO WE PUT

36:51 - MORE EMPHASIS ON SPLITTING A

36:52 - COUNTY THEN SPLITTING THE CITY.

36:55 - YOU KNOW WE HAVE DIFFERENT

36:56 - MUNICIPALITIES DIFFERENT LEVELS

37:01 - CITIES COUNTIES DISTRICTS IN

37:03 - SPALLETTI'S THAT WE'RE LOOKING

37:05 - AT BUT

37:05 - WE'VE NEVER IN A LEAGUE OF

37:07 - WOMEN VOTERS OR ANY OTHER PLACE

37:10 - THAT I'M AWARE OF WE HAVE NEVER

37:12 - SAID THERE'S A HIERARCHY IN THE

37:14 - TIGHTS THAT

37:15 - COUNTY SPLIT IS BETTER OR WORSE

37:19 - THAN A SPLIT OF A BIG CITY LIKE

37:22 - PITTSBURGH. IT.

37:23 - >>I THINK THAT'S.

37:24 - >>FAIR YOUR HONOR BUT I WAS

37:25 - MORE OF A COMMON SENSE

37:26 - ANALYSIS. WELL, BUT I THINK

37:28 - THAT I THINK IT'S MORE THAN

37:29 - JUST A COMMON NOW SO I THINK

37:31 - WHOLE ONE.

37:32 - >>THERE'S SOME COMMENTARY AND I

37:34 - CAN TO GRANT THIS NIGHT WAS

37:35 - HOLDING BUT THERE'S THERE'S

37:37 - START TO BE TEASED OUT THE IDEA

37:39 - THAT BECAUSE COUNTIES

37:41 - HISTORICALLY WE'LL SHOW AND ARE

37:43 - SO IMPORTANT

37:45 - TO HOW THE COMMONWEALTH FORMS

37:46 - AND GOVERNORS. I MEAN WHEN YOU

37:47 - THINK ABOUT WHAT THE COUNTY

37:48 - DOES. IT'S THE IT'S IT'S THE

37:50 - PRIMARY. A RECIPIENT OF

37:53 - FEDERAL MONEY FOR A LOW COUNT

37:55 - AND THAT'S WHERE FEDERAL MONEY

37:56 - USUALLY GOES AND IT GETS

37:57 - DISPERSED OUT THE COMMUNITY SO

37:59 - THERE'S THERE BEYOND JUST THE

38:00 - LEVEL OF SENSE. I MEAN I THINK

38:03 - THAT

38:04 - READING BETWEEN THE THIS COURT

38:06 - HAS HAS

38:08 - GIVEN CREDENCE TO THE IDEA THAT

38:09 - THAT THAT THERE IS A HIERARCHY

38:11 - AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT THERE IS

38:12 - EVEN THOUGH GRANTED IT IS

38:14 - NOT EXPRESS.

38:15 - >>WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO

38:16 - CLARIFY THAT AND THIS UPCOMING

38:18 - OPINION. YES.

38:19 - >>AND IN IT TO THE EXTENT LOOK

38:21 - I THINK I

38:23 - THINK THAT CONSIDERATION OF

38:26 - IS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT

38:28 - BECAUSE I THINK IT IS

38:29 - A WAY FORGETTING SECOND TIER OR

38:32 - OR EVEN TERTIARY WAYS

38:34 - OF EVALUATING. ALL OF THE MAPS

38:37 - THAT ARE BEFORE THE COURT.

38:38 - I THINK THE FIDELITY HERE HAS

38:40 - TO BE GIVEN

38:41 - TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE

38:42 - IS GOOD DAY BECAUSE THEY WON

38:43 - OUR METRICS THAT WE CAN

38:45 - LOOK AT AND THEIR NUMBERS AND

38:47 - WE CAN MATCH THEM UP AND WE CAN

38:48 - SAY NUMERICALLY YOU HAVE

38:49 - LESS SPLIT WHICH THE RUSSIAN

38:52 - DOLLAR MAPS TO IN TERMS OF

38:53 - COUNTIES AND MUNICIPALITIES

38:55 - MISSION EVER ASK YOU AS A

38:57 - SUSPECT, ALTHOUGH AT THE BACK

38:59 - YOUR TIME IS BEGINNING THAT.

39:01 - >>TO TO TRY AND NIGHT.

39:04 - MISTER DEVINE ARGUED ONE OF THE

39:06 - MORE NNADI.

39:08 - >>THEORETICAL.

39:09 - >>QUESTIONS PERVADING

39:11 - THIS AREA WHICH IS EMPHASIZE

39:14 - THESE NOT ARGUING FOR PORSCHE

39:16 - ANALOGY AS THE RELEASE. A

39:19 - PARLIAMENT SYSTEM WOULD HAVE

39:20 - IT. HE IS ARGUING FOR

39:22 - RESPONSIVENESS WHATEVER THAT

39:24 - MEANS IT IS ARGUING, I THINK

39:27 - EVERY SPOT IN THIS

39:28 - WOULD JUSTIFY A

39:30 - CONSIDERATION OF PARTISAN

39:32 - FAIRNESS AND I DO THINK THAT

39:34 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS JUST

39:36 - TIED ROADMASTER FLEE TO.

39:38 - ELEVATE PARTISAN FAIRNESS

39:41 - UNDER THE

39:43 - FAIR AND EQUAL ELECTION CLAUSE

39:45 - OF THE PENNSYLVANIA

39:45 - CONSTITUTION AND THE THEORY

39:47 - THAT WE'VE GOT A LIVE ONE

39:48 - PERSON'S VOTE. SO JUST WANTED

39:50 - YOUR VIEW. AS IS THE GET I'M

39:53 - TRYING TO TEASE OUT

39:54 - MY MIND WHERE PARTISAN

39:56 - FAIRNESS, IT'S WHERE WE SPOTTED

39:58 - THIS IS WHERE WE'RE PUSHING OUT

39:59 - OF THE SUN.

40:00 - >>WELL.

40:04 - >>CORRECTLY ANSWERING. THE

40:08 - CHIEF YOU EVEN

40:11 - YOURSELF NOTED WHEN YOU'RE

40:12 - TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE

40:13 - RESPONSE OF THIS I THINK YOU DO

40:14 - THAT, YOU KNOW HAND JUST WHAT

40:15 - DOES

40:15 - THAT MEAN I IT

40:17 - I KNOW CASES LIKE THE

40:19 - FINRA SHOW AREN'T CONTROLLING

40:21 - ON THIS SCORE, BUT THEY BUT

40:22 - THEY HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT

40:25 - HOW EPHEMERAL THESE CONCEPTS

40:27 - ARE

40:27 - OF FAIRNESS OF OF A

40:29 - PROPORTIONALITY OF

40:30 - RESPONSIVENESS AND AND HOW OR

40:33 - FOR AN ORGANIZATION AND LIKE A

40:35 - BODY LIKE A COURT TO GET ITS

40:36 - ARMS AROUND AND ARTICULATE A

40:37 - RULE. AND I

40:40 - THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT

40:42 - TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THESE TOOLS

40:44 - ACTUALLY ARE MEANT TO DO I

40:46 - BELIEVE AND I AND I THINK THIS

40:47 - IS WHAT THIS COURT.

40:49 - DID IN THE 2 WOMEN VOTERS

40:52 - IS USED PARTISAN

40:54 - FAIRNESS METRICS AS A WAY OF

40:57 - DETERMINING WHETHER A MASK.

40:59 - THEY CAME TO THE POLITICAL

41:00 - PROCESS AND IMMEDIATELY DID

41:03 - NOT MATCH STANDARD METRICS FOR

41:05 - WHAT WE THINK A NEUTRAL

41:07 - CONSTITUTIONAL MAP SHOULD

41:08 - LOOK LIKE THIS COURT WAS THEN

41:10 - CHARGED TO FIGURE OUT WHY DOES

41:11 - IT LOOK LIKE THAT WHAT YOU KNOW

41:13 - THESE NUMBERS DON'T LOOK RIGHT.

41:15 - HOW CAN WE TELL IF THIS

41:17 - IS A AN UNFAIR MAP OR A FAIR

41:19 - AMOUNT IN ALMOST A BINARY WAY.

41:22 - SO I THINK THE APPROPRIATE USE

41:25 - OF OF CONCEPTS

41:27 - LIKE PARTISAN FAIRNESS. LIKE

41:30 - RESPONSE AGAINST OUR OUR IS ONE

41:32 - OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID TO BE

41:33 - EARLY THIS MORNING THERE

41:34 - GOT CHECKS, THEREFORE WE'RE

41:36 - BRIEFLY ON THAT ON THAT YES

41:37 - YOUR HONOR. IT SEEMS TO BE

41:39 - A LIGHT. I'D LIKE YOU TO REACT

41:41 - TO THIS THAT. THAT THERE IS A.

41:46 - THE PRINCIPAL DISTINCTION.

41:49 - AS

41:49 - BETWEEN OR ENTERPRISE IN 2018

41:52 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN, VOTERS AND NOW

41:53 - AT LEAST ON ONE DIMENSION.

41:55 - >>AS FOLLOWS THAT. IN LEAGUE OF

41:58 - WOMEN VOTERS, WE

42:00 - WERE DEALING WITH RESPECT TO

42:02 - THE PARTISAN FAIRNESS METRIC IF

42:03 - YOU WILL WITH A

42:05 - TRACK RECORD. IN ENTRANCE

42:10 - ACROSS AT LEAST

42:11 - 3 ELECTIONS CYCLES. IT HERE

42:14 - IT'S IT'S A PROJECTION INTO

42:15 - YOUR US THAT IT'S A IT'S A

42:17 - IT'S THAT WE DON'T HAVE

42:19 - EXPERIENCE ON PARTISAN FAIRNESS

42:21 - WE'RE TRYING TO IT WE'RE TRYING

42:23 - TO PROJECT ACROSS ALL

42:26 - THESE METRICS WITHOUT THE

42:27 - BENEFIT WE HAD A LEAGUE OF

42:29 - WOMEN VOTERS. AT LEAST 3

42:31 - ELECTION CYCLES. I'VE BEEN.

42:35 - WHAT CAN FAIRLY BE CALLED

42:36 - ENTRENCHMENT IT CAN YOU REACT

42:38 - TO THAT DISAGREE RE WHAT KNOW

42:40 - YOU COULD LOOK AT YOU'RE RIGHT.

42:43 - WE DON'T THESE AND THAT'S WHY

42:44 - THESE METRICS THAT WE'RE

42:46 - TALKING ABOUT OUR GU GOT

42:48 - CHECKS. THEY'RE NOT 1ST QUARTER

42:51 - CONSTITUTIONAL CONCERNS FOR A

42:52 - REASON BECAUSE THE THEY'RE

42:54 - THERE AND HE REALLY UNSTABLE.

42:56 - I MEAN THEY'RE GREAT AT THE I

42:57 - MEAN THE YOU CAN TELL WHETHER

42:58 - THEY WORKED OR NOT.

42:59 - >>WHEN YOU LOOK BACKWARDS

43:00 - BUT LOOKING FORWARD, ESPECIALLY

43:02 - AS YOU PROJECT OUT IN YEARS TO

43:03 - BECOME LESS AND LESS RELIABLE.

43:05 - I THINK THEIR HIGHEST UTILITY.

43:07 - 4. FOR THE

43:08 - COURT TODAY. AND YOU'RE

43:10 - ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. YOU ARE IN A

43:12 - TOTALLY

43:12 - DIFFERENT POSTURE. THEN YOU

43:14 - WERE IN 2018 IN 2018. YOU'RE

43:17 - TAKING A MAP THAT YOU WOULD

43:18 - DOLLAR BUT YOU KNOW I I THINK

43:19 - THAT FLORIDA WHAT POLICE SAID

43:22 - WAS THAT YOU KNOW WAS

43:23 - TOO MUCH AND AND YOU YOU

43:26 - MADE ONE AND HEARING TO NEUTRAL

43:28 - CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES.

43:29 - THAT'S THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE

43:31 - DOING TODAY. YOU ARE TAKING

43:33 - A BUNCH OF MAPS THAT EVERYONE

43:35 - ACKNOWLEDGES I THINK ON THIS

43:36 - COURT AND MOST OF THE PARTIES

43:38 - ACKNOWLEDGE OUR WHOLE.

43:39 - WITHIN THE RANGE OF

43:41 - CONSTITUTIONALITY AND YOU'RE

43:42 - TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE

43:43 - OF THESE DO

43:44 - WE USE

43:45 - SO IT'S AND I APOLOGIZE FOR

43:48 - INTERRUPTING, BUT I ALSO WANT

43:50 - TO EVER IN MY STAFF.

43:52 - >>ONE THE POOL ABOUT HOW LONG

43:53 - IT WOULD TAKE FOR ME TO ASK MY

43:54 - FIRST QUESTION

43:57 - THAT REPORT.

43:59 - SINCE MY

44:00 - FIRST QUESTION SO YOU KNOW THE

44:01 - ANSWER TO A TRIVIA WHAT WE'LL

44:03 - SEE HOW THAT WILL SEE HOW THIS

44:05 - BUT YOU'RE GETTING TO A POINT

44:06 - WHICH

44:06 - WHICH FROM I JUDGE WHO READ THE

44:10 - LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OPINION

44:11 - HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE

44:13 - TRIAL ASPECT OF

44:14 - IT AND I READ THAT DECISION A

44:17 - LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY THAN

44:18 - SOME OF THE PARTIES

44:19 - ARE ARGUING. WE GIVE WOMEN

44:20 - VOTERS WAS A SITUATION WHERE

44:23 - THERE'S AN ALLEGED

44:23 - UNCONSTITUTIONAL GERRYMANDER A

44:25 - MAP

44:26 - AND THAT. THAT THE NATURAL

44:29 - ORDER OF THINGS

44:31 - I THINK YOU MENTIONED POLITICAL

44:32 - GEOGRAPHY WOULD HAVE DICTATED

44:34 - ACTS AND MAYBE ACTS WAS A PLUS

44:36 - SOMETHING IN FAVOR OF

44:37 - REPUBLICANS WENT TO AN

44:40 - INORDINATE DIRECTION FURTHER TO

44:43 - B PLUS SOMETHING MORE

44:44 - TO REPUBLICANS AND THE

44:46 - CHALLENGE BEFORE THIS COURT WAS

44:48 - HOW DO WE DETERMINE WHETHER

44:50 - THAT MAP

44:50 - HAS EXCEEDED AND THE BOUNDS OF

44:53 - PARTISANSHIP AND AND THE COURT

44:55 - SAID WELL WE'RE GOING TO START

44:57 - WITH WEATHER MAP SATISFIES THE

44:58 - NEUTRAL CRITERIA.

45:00 - >>AND THIS COURT DETERMINED

45:01 - THAT THAT MAP DID NOT SATISFY

45:03 - THE NEUTRAL CRITERIA DIDN'T GO

45:04 - ANY FARTHER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T

45:05 - HAVE TO GO ANY FARTHER BUT WHAT

45:07 - I THINK JUSTICE TITUS TO LEE

45:08 - ROAD AND IN THE

45:10 - OPINION WAS. THIS COURT

45:13 - RECOGNIZES THE POSSIBILITY THAT

45:14 - IN THE FUTURE AND

45:16 - A MASK COULD STILL EXCEED THE

45:19 - BOUNDS OF PARTISAN FAIRNESS

45:21 - YET SATISFIED THE FLOOR

45:25 - CRITERION AND THAT SEEMS TO BE

45:27 - THE WINDOW THAT WAS LEFT OPEN

45:29 - IN LEAGUE OF

45:29 - WOMEN VOTERS ARE WE DEALING

45:31 - WITH THAT

45:32 - HERE TO ANY OF THESE MAPS

45:34 - EXCEED THE BOUNDS OF PARTISAN

45:36 - FAIRNESS HAS ANYBODY ARGUE THAT

45:38 - NO AND END TO THE CONTRARY.

45:40 - I THINK.

45:42 - >>WITH ALL THE AUTHORS

45:43 - ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT YOU WERE

45:44 - DEALING WITH IN THE LEAGUE OF

45:45 - WOMEN VOTERS WHICH I THINK THAT

45:47 - THE CHIEF CALLED AN EXCESSIVE

45:49 - PARTISAN GERRYMANDER.

45:51 - >>AND MY MY QUESTIONS MORSE

45:52 - MIKE MY QUESTION IS MORE

45:53 - SPECIFIC IS THE WINDOW THAT WAS

45:56 - LEFT OPEN BY THIS COURT WAS

45:57 - THAT INTENDED TO SAY THAT THE

45:59 - FREE AND EQUAL ELECTION CLAUSES

46:00 - THAT CLAUSE DEMANDS

46:03 - NON-PARTISAN EVERYBODY HAS A

46:06 - 50% SHOT OF WINNING WHERE DOES

46:08 - IT SIMPLY SAY.

46:10 - THERE COULD BE A SITUATION IN

46:12 - THE FUTURE WHERE

46:12 - A MAP IS SELECTED THAT IS STILL

46:15 - EXCESSIVELY PARTISAN

46:16 - GERRYMANDER BUT SATISFIES THE

46:18 - FLOOR AND IF THAT HAPPENS THEN

46:20 - WE NEED TO GO TO THESE OTHER

46:21 - METRICS AND SEE WHAT'S GOING TO

46:24 - LOOK AT NOT NOT TO PUT WORDS IN

46:25 - INJUSTICE TIMES MAP, BUT I

46:27 - THINK THAT'S THE CORRECT

46:28 - APPLICATION OF WHAT COULD

46:29 - HAPPEN TO ME WHAT I

46:31 - UNDERSTOOD THAT.

46:35 - >>PCP TO MEAN YOUR HONOR

46:36 - IS THAT

46:38 - IT IS THAT GIVEN THE PREVALENCE

46:40 - OF SUPERCOMPUTERS, YOU KNOW ANY

46:41 - ACTION WATCHING WHAT YOU KNOW

46:42 - WHAT THEY CALL

46:43 - IT NOW THAT THAT YOU COULD COME

46:45 - UP WITH AN APP THAT MINIMALLY

46:46 - NEEDS.

46:48 - WHAT WHAT IF THESE LEAGUE OF

46:50 - WOMEN VOTERS ARTICULATED WERE

46:51 - THE CONSTITUTIONAL STANDARD AND

46:53 - YET MAY HAVE BEEN MOTIVATED BY

46:55 - SOME EXCESSIVE

46:57 - UNCONSTITUTIONAL PARTISAN

46:59 - MALICE BY US, I MEAN I'M WHAT

47:01 - YOU CALL IT, BUT BUT HE LEFT

47:03 - OPEN THE POSSIBILITY OF THAT

47:05 - WELL NOT ADDRESSING IT IN THE

47:06 - UPPER RIGHT, BUT THAT'S CLEARLY

47:08 - NOT WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH

47:09 - HERE AND I THINK I THINK YOU'RE

47:11 - RIGHT THOSE METRIC THE TO GET

47:13 - TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEDAY

47:15 - THAT HAPPENED IN THE

47:16 - LEGISLATURE FOR INSTANCE DRAFTS

47:18 - THE MAP LIKE THAT

47:19 - WE'LL BE BACK IN THE SAME

47:20 - POSITION. WE'RE IN LEAGUE OF

47:21 - WOMEN VOTERS AND THAT'S WHERE

47:23 - THOSE 2ND QUARTER FACTORS COME

47:24 - IN BECAUSE YOU MAY BE ABLE TO

47:27 - WHAT YOU DID IN LEAGUE OF WOMEN

47:28 - VOTERS I THINK IS IT CAN GET

47:31 - YOU TOOK A MAP IT WAS BROUGHT

47:33 - BEFORE YOU. THE DIDN'T MATCH UP

47:36 - ON THE NEUTRAL FACTORS AND YOU

47:37 - HAD TO UNDERSTAND WHY DID

47:39 - IT HAPPEN SORT OF NATURALLY AND

47:41 - THEREFORE PERMISSIBILITY OR DID

47:43 - WAS IT DONE DELIBERATELY IN AN

47:44 - UNLAWFUL WAY

47:46 - AND THAT'S WHERE THE PARTISAN

47:47 - METRICS CAME IN TO HELP THIS

47:48 - COURT DETERMINED IN OUR OPINION

47:51 - THE MAP WAS DRAWN IN AN

47:52 - UNLAWFUL WAY BECAUSE IT WAS

47:53 - EXCESSIVE MANNER OF YOU I JUST

47:55 - WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND

47:56 - YOUR JUSTICE BROBSON.

47:59 - >>WHAT I THOUGHT I HEARD WAS

48:01 - THAT YOU ARE STUDY VIEW WAS

48:03 - NONE OF THE MAPS IN FRONT OF US

48:06 - WENT SO FAR IN PLACE IN

48:08 - FAIRNESS HAS TO BE INVALIDATED.

48:10 - >>I DO NOT BELIEVE SO I THINK

48:12 - WHAT I WILL SAY THAT THEY'VE

48:14 - BEEN BUT I'M GOING TO BE MORE

48:16 - PRECISE. I THINK THERE ARE MASK

48:19 - THAT

48:19 - OUR WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER

48:21 - IT NOT.

48:22 - >>ONCE DRAWN ANY ANY STATE OF

48:25 - NATURE THAT IS THEY ARE NOT

48:26 - REFLECTIVE OF THE PARTISAN

48:28 - REALITY OF PENNSYLVANIA.

48:29 - >>AND I THINK THE EXPLANATION

48:31 - FOR WHY THOSE MAPS DO NOT

48:33 - MATCH. WHAT HAPPENS.

48:34 - WHEN FOR INSTANCE DOCKED

48:36 - ADDITION TESTIFIED SHE RAN

48:38 - 100,000 SIMULATIONS THAT WERE

48:41 - DONE WITH WOULD PUT

48:43 - ABILITY OF NEED THE NEUTRAL

48:44 - CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES ONLY

48:45 - AND THEY CAME OUT WITH THE

48:46 - PREDOMINANT REPUBLICAN TILT

48:48 - AGAIN JUST BASED ON WHERE

48:49 - PEOPLE DECIDED THEY WANTED TO

48:50 - LIVE IN THE COMMONWEALTH

48:51 - COUNCIL.

48:53 - >>INTERESTING YOU SHOULD SAY

48:54 - THAT CAN YOU SHARE WITH ME I'M

48:55 - FROM THE EAST SIDE OF THE STATE

48:57 - AND THE MAC YOU HAVE TO ADMIT

48:59 - IT PUTS 3 INCUMBENT DEMOCRATS.

49:04 - COMPETITIVE RACES. IN A

49:07 - PARTICULAR AS WE SAID POLITICAL

49:09 - GEOGRAPHY WE KNOW PHILADELPHIAN

49:11 - ARE SURROUNDING IT.

49:12 - COUNTIES LEAN DEMOCRAT WHY

49:14 - WOULD YOU DO THAT IF THIS IS A

49:15 - COMMUNITY OF INTEREST AND SO IF

49:17 - YOU'RE EVER SAID PLEASE ANSWER

49:19 - THAT QUESTION FULLY BUT TRIED

49:21 - TO THAT THE CITY WE'VE

49:23 - WANG SPENDING YOUR TIME BUT

49:25 - CERTAINLY WE ALL WANT OUR

49:26 - QUESTIONS AND YOU UNDERSTAND

49:27 - JUST AS OBVIOUS QUESTION I DO

49:29 - YOUR HONOR I I WOULD SAY THAT

49:31 - THEY'RE NOT QUITE IN THE

49:32 - PHILADELPHIA REGION, ONE IS A

49:33 - PAIR OF WORK OF A REPUBLICAN

49:35 - AND DEMOCRATIC INCUMBENT WHO

49:36 - WOULD BE QUITE RIGHT UP THE

49:38 - CARPET RIGHT WHO LAND.

49:41 - >>IT AND YOUR HONOR I THE

49:44 - ANSWER TO THAT IS

49:45 - WHEN YOU DRAW MAPS WHEN YOU'RE

49:48 - LOSING A CONGRESSIONAL SEAT

49:49 - AND YOU'RE DRAWING MAPS THAT

49:51 - HERE TO

49:52 - NEUTRAL PRINCIPLES. SOME OF

49:54 - THOSE MATCHUPS HAPPENED I IF I

49:56 - COULD I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS BY

49:57 - DESIGN I THINK THAT IT WAS

49:59 - SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED

50:00 - BECAUSE. WE SPLIT ONLY

50:03 - 13 COUNTIES AND WE SPLIT ONLY

50:05 - 60 MUNICIPALITIES PERMIT ME TO

50:07 - FOLLOW THAT UP WITH. THE

50:09 - THIS COURT WE USUALLY GET

50:11 - INVOLVED IN REDISTRICTING

50:13 - MATTERS ONLY WITH REGARD TO

50:15 - CONSTITUTIONALITY ISSUES.

50:17 - >>WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE.

50:19 - SO WE ARE

50:20 - NOW PRESENTED WITH WHAT JUSTICE

50:23 - TODD FOR SHADOW TO LEGAL LIMIT.

50:26 - FOR YOUR CLIENTS FROM YOUR

50:28 - CLIENT'S PERSPECTIVE.

50:29 - >>WHAT YOU BELIEVE

50:31 - WE SHOULD BE THE PRIORITY FOR

50:33 - US TO CONSIDER WHEN WE'RE

50:36 - LOOKING AT THESE VARIOUS MAX,

50:38 - THAT EVERYONE HAS CONCEDED IS

50:40 - NOT PARTISAN GERRYMANDER.

50:43 - AND

50:43 - HE RINSE.

50:44 - >>TO THE

50:45 - CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS

50:46 - WITH AN EMPHASIS ON SPLITS

50:50 - >>THE GUT CHECK AT THE END OF

50:52 - WEATHER YOUR CHOSEN MAP.

50:55 - >>FORKS ON BADLY FLUNG ON SOME

50:58 - SORT OF PARTISAN METRIC AND I

51:00 - WOULD SUBMIT THAT NONE OF NONE

51:01 - OF THEM BADLY FLUNG ON THE

51:03 - NUMBERS I WOULD SUBMIT THAT

51:04 - SOME OF THEM ARE

51:06 - ARE MOVING. PEOPLE POLITICAL

51:08 - PARTIES AROUND TO MAKE THEIR

51:09 - MATCH THE BETTER WE ALL.

51:11 - >>ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT THE

51:13 - 2018 MATT.

51:17 - >>AND CREATED THESE

51:18 - NEUTRAL STANCE. SHARE

51:21 - WITH US.

51:22 - >>IF THAT'S THE MODEL.

51:25 - WHAT PERCENTAGE OF.

51:29 - PEOPLE REMAIN IN THE 2018

51:31 - DISTRICTS. UNDER YOUR NEW MET.

51:33 - >>I THINK YOUR HONOR IT'S

51:35 - AROUND 76%.

51:38 - I URGE.

51:39 - >>CAUTION THOUGH IN RELIANCE ON

51:43 - ON ON A ON A FUNCTIONALITY

51:45 - LIKE.

51:45 - >>LEE'S CHANGE.

51:47 - >>I ACTUALLY COMMEND TO THIS

51:53 - FOR FOR DISCUSSION. WHY THESE

51:54 - PRINCIPLES THE

51:59 - I'M SURE THE JOHNSON VERSUS

52:00 - WISCONSIN ELECTIONS CASE

52:02 - BECAUSE IT

52:02 - TALKS ABOUT.

52:03 - >>LEAST CHANGE THE CHANGE MAY

52:05 - BE APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU'RE

52:06 - ACTUALLY KEEPING.

52:08 - >>THE SAME NUMBER SEEDS.

52:09 - IT'S IN PERFECT

52:11 - WHEN YOU'RE LOSING A SEAT AND

52:13 - IN FACT IT WAS ADDRESSED.

52:15 - I BELIEVE IN A HOLE TOO AND

52:17 - HAUL TO CAUTION THIS COURT TO

52:19 - WATCH OUT BECAUSE THAT AND BY

52:22 - THE WAY THE COUNSEL FOR

52:25 - THE CARTER FOLKS MADE THIS

52:26 - ARGUMENT IN IN WISCONSIN.

52:29 - WATCH OUT WITH LEASE CHANGE

52:30 - BECAUSE WITH THESE CHANGE

52:32 - YOU CAN DO IS IS LOCK IN SOME

52:34 - THINGS THAT MAYBE DON'T REFLECT

52:36 - THE CENSUS NUMBERS THAT YOU

52:38 - HAVE TODAY.

52:41 - >>I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY

52:43 - THERE ARE OTHER JURISDICTION IN

52:45 - THE

52:45 - UNITED STATES THAT WHERE THE

52:47 - COURTS HAVE UTILIZED LEAST

52:48 - CHANGE AS

52:50 - THE STANDARD IN REAPPORTIONMENT

52:53 - MATCH. I BELIEVE THERE WAS IN

52:54 - WISCONSIN.

52:57 - >>I'M DRAWING A BLANK NOW

52:59 - HERE'S A HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS

53:00 - WHEN YOU.

53:01 - >>WE WE NEED TO CONCLUDE THIS

53:03 - CERTAINLY ANSWERED. YES TO STOP

53:04 - THIS QUESTION BUT ALSO TRY TO

53:05 - GET HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN

53:07 - YOU PRIORITIZE LEAST CHANGE

53:09 - WHICH BY THE WAY IS NOT

53:11 - CONSTITUTIONAL.

53:12 - >>REQUIREMENT AND IS THE SECOND

53:14 - TIER ORDER AND SO YOU HAVE TO

53:16 - WE DID LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

53:17 - IF YOU PRIORITIZING ARTICULATED

53:19 - BY US AS A STANDARD TO KNOW.

53:21 - >>NOW.

53:21 - >>WHEN YOU USE LEAST CHANGE IN

53:24 - PENNSYLVANIA, AND IT LOSES A

53:26 - CONGRESSIONAL SEAT. IT DISTORTS

53:29 - WITH THE CONGRESSIONAL MAPS

53:30 - LOOK LIKE AND THEY MAY BE ABLE

53:31 - TO SAY NUMERICALLY THEY ARE

53:33 - WITH ANY COMPAQ RANGE BUT THE

53:34 - BUT LOOK A LOOK AT THE CARTER

53:37 - DISTRICT, IT RUNS FROM

53:39 - ARMSTRONG COUNTY.

53:40 - >>ALL.

53:41 - >>THE WAY UP TO 2 TO TIE OLD.

53:45 - I

53:45 - MEAN IT IF YOU DO I MEAN I

53:47 - THINK THE PARTY FOR 4 HOURS

53:48 - DRIVE FROM STANDING UP TO TIE

53:50 - WITH THAT'S A MAMMOTH DISTRICT

53:52 - ITS ROLLS.

53:54 - >>LOOK AT THE COURT OR DISTRICT

53:56 - GRAFFITI ITS PEOPLE WHAT I

53:58 - AM SURE THAT I HAVE MORE

54:00 - PEOPLE AT MY CLOCK IN SOUTH

54:02 - PHILADELPHIA. THEN THAT'S WHERE

54:03 - OUR DRIVE THROUGH THOSE SCAMS

54:05 - BUT THEN COMPARE YOUR HONOR

54:07 - RUSSIAN DOLLARS WANTING TO END

54:09 - THE DISTRICT THAT CAPTURES THAT

54:11 - PART OF THE STATE AND HOW MUCH

54:12 - MORE COMPACT IT IS AND HOW MUCH

54:14 - MORE OF A

54:15 - OF A COHESIVE

54:17 - UNIT IS EASY TO HE SAYS TO SAY

54:20 - THAT PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN

54:21 - ARMSTRONG COUNTY, YOU KNOW

54:23 - CLOSE TO THE PITTSBURGH

54:24 - SUBURBS.

54:24 - >>HAVE A COMMUNITY OF INTEREST

54:26 - PEOPLE LIVE IN THAI OGA WHAT

54:28 - HAVE YOU THE GIST OF IT.

54:29 - >>I MEAN YOU HAVE THE SAME

54:31 - ARMSTRONG TO TELL YOU WHY YOUR

54:32 - MATH IS HER I DON'T THINK WE DO

54:34 - I THINK YOU'RE

54:35 - ON IT.

54:35 - >>WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT LOOK AT

54:37 - THE DIMENSIONS OF THAT DISTRICT

54:38 - LOOK AT THE DIMENSIONS OF

54:39 - RUSSIAN

54:39 - DOLLAR ONE AND THAT QUARTERED

54:42 - IN CARTER AND AND HOW BIG THAT

54:45 - DISTRICT IS AND HOW MUCH BIGGER

54:46 - THAT DISTRICT IS THAT'S WHAT

54:48 - HAPPENS WHEN YOU WOULD HEAR THE

54:49 - LEAVES CHANGE AND YOU LOSE

54:51 - A SEAT. THEY GET DISTORTED, I

54:53 - MEAN IT'S IT DOESN'T IT'S TOO

54:55 - BIG. AND THERE DIDN'T END THE

54:57 - CARTER DISTRICT RUNS FROM

54:58 - PRACTICALLY WHAT GOES FROM

55:01 - ALMOST HERSHEY PARK. ALL THE

55:03 - WAY UP TO TO TO

55:04 - TO BRANFORD I KNOW THAT'S A

55:07 - HUGE GEOGRAPHIC DISTRICT AND

55:08 - CARTER PITS INCUMBENTS TOGETHER

55:10 - TO THAT PARTLY CARTER PITS

55:12 - INCUMBENT DOES IT DOES

55:14 - I LEASE CHANGE MAY HAVE ITS

55:16 - PLACE YOUR HONOR JUST NOT IN

55:18 - A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE NOT

55:20 - USING THE SAME SOME CENSUS

55:21 - NUMBERS AND CERTAINLY NOT IN

55:23 - THE SITUATION WHERE YOU LOSE A

55:25 - CONGRESSIONAL SEAT AND IF IT

55:26 - DID YOU KNOW AT LEAST WOULD

55:30 - SUGGEST THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE

55:31 - TO SPLIT

55:33 - LESS MUNICIPALITIES

55:35 - IN THE CARTER THAN YOU DID IN

55:37 - IN 2018 AND I THINK THE

55:39 - SPLIT MORE.

55:40 - >>MISTER HAVE EXPECT BEFORE YOU

55:42 - SIT DOWN WHICH WOULD BE KIND

55:43 - ENOUGH TO INTRODUCE YOUR

55:44 - CO-COUNSEL THANK YOU YOUR HONOR

55:46 - MY CO-COUNSEL THE SHOW VANCE.

55:49 - >>AND HE'S SITTING BACK AND WE

55:50 - SIT RIGHT THERE.

55:52 - I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE

55:53 - ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THE ATTORNEYS I

55:56 - KNOW YOU HAVE MANY MORE

55:57 - ATTORNEYS WHO AREN'T WITH

56:00 - THE BAR BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO

56:02 - ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THE ATTORNEYS

56:03 - TO APPEAR IN WHO'VE WORKED HARD

56:05 - ON THE CASES, THANK YOU ON OR

56:07 - DOES IT IS IMPORTANT AND IT IT

56:09 - IT WAS REMISS OF ME NOT TO DO

56:10 - IT THE THIS IS FOR EVERYONE I

56:12 - KNOW IN IN

56:13 - THE ROOM. A GROUP EFFORT THESE

56:15 - ARE VERY HARD ISSUES THEY'RE

56:16 - VERY COMPLICATED. THE KEY.

56:18 - VERY MUCH. IF YOU WANT TO SAY

56:20 - SOMETHING CLOSE AND BRIEFLY

56:22 - YOUR HONOR AND I THINK I THINK

56:25 - I I I'VE I'VE MADE.

56:28 - THE POINTS I WANT TO

56:29 - MAKE ABOUT WHAT PENNSYLVANIA

56:31 - LOOKS LIKE IN A STATE OF

56:32 - NATURE. I COME IN THE COURT

56:36 - DOCTOR DO SHIN'S TESTIMONY IN

56:38 - AN

56:39 - EXPERT REPORT AND SOME OF THE

56:40 - OTHER EXPERTS HAVE SAID THE

56:41 - SAME THING. PENNSYLVANIA IS NOT

56:44 - MUCH IN THE STATE IN TERMS OF

56:46 - THE RED AND BLUE WIDGETS AND

56:47 - IT'S CERTAINLY NOT MUCH IN THE

56:49 - STATE IN WHAT MATTERS TO PEOPLE

56:52 - IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE

56:53 - EVEN IF THEY MAY HAPPEN TO BE

56:55 - THE SAME A POLITICAL PARTY.

56:58 - ON THE

56:59 - ISSUE OF CALL IT

57:01 - PROPORTIONALITY GO CALL IT.

57:06 - PARTISAN FAIRNESS.

57:08 - I BELIEVE THESE ARE ALL CODE

57:09 - WORDS FOR ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING

57:11 - GERRYMANDERING AND I AGAIN

57:13 - COMMEND DOCTOR DO SHUN FOR

57:14 - BEING HONEST ABOUT WHAT SHE

57:17 - THOUGHT PARTISAN FAIRNESS MET

57:18 - BECAUSE IN HER TESTIMONY

57:20 - FAIRNESS DID NOT EQUAL

57:21 - NEUTRALITY FAIRNESS MEANT

57:23 - SOMETHING ELSE AND SHE

57:24 - SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT IN HER

57:26 - MAP FOR THE GOVERNOR.

57:29 - SHE WAS MOVING PEOPLE

57:30 - AROUND TO OVERCOME

57:32 - PENNSYLVANIA'S NATURAL

57:34 - GEOGRAPHIC TENDENCIES THAT SHE

57:35 - WAS DOING THAT TO TEMPER THOSE

57:37 - TENDENCIES I BELIEVE WHENEVER

57:39 - YOU MOVE VOTERS TO DISADVANTAGE

57:42 - ONE POLITICAL PARTY OR

57:43 - ADVANTAGE ANOTHER FOR WHATEVER

57:45 - REASON NOBLE RIGHT IT

57:48 - SEEMS FAIR. NONETHELESS THAT'S

57:50 - GERRYMANDERING AND IF THAT'S

57:52 - GOING TO HAPPEN. THE CAPACITY

57:54 - THAT SHE LEFT FOR THE

57:56 - LEGISLATURE. AND FINALLY ON

57:58 - THAT POINT YOUR HONORS I

57:59 - RECOMMEND THIS COURT, I'M SURE

58:00 - IT HAS. CONSIDER.

58:04 - THE ARTICULATION OF THE COURT'S

58:06 - ROLE IN THIS PARTICULAR

58:08 - FOR INSTANCE AS DISCUSSED IN BY

58:11 - THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT.

58:13 - IN IN THE JOHNSON CASE I THINK

58:15 - THAT CASE VERY

58:17 - APTLY CAPTURES

58:18 - THE PROPER ROLE OF THE COURT

58:20 - HERE WHEN IT IS NOT SEEKING TO

58:22 - INVALIDATE A LEGISLATIVE MAP

58:24 - BUT INSTEAD IT IS TRYING TO

58:26 - CHOOSE AMONG A BUNCH OF MAPS

58:28 - THAT ADMITTEDLY OR ALL WITH ANY

58:30 - CONSTITUTIONAL RANGE OF

58:31 - THOSE MAPS WHICH ONE IT HEARS

58:34 - BEST TO THE

58:35 - STATE CONSTITUTION. NOT THAT

58:37 - DOES SOMETHING ELSE THAT MAY BE

58:38 - DESIRABLE BUT IT'S BETTER FOR

58:40 - THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO DO

58:41 - WHICH ONE IS EFFECTIVELY THE

58:43 - MOST CONSTITUTIONAL I SUBMIT TO

58:45 - YOU THAT IN OUR CASE, IT'S

58:47 - EITHER THE RUSSIAN DOLLARS

58:48 - BECAUSE OF THE NEW AND A SWITCH

58:51 - AND WHERE THOSE BUT I THINK WE

58:52 - UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION TO RUN

58:53 - WELL ARE YOU THANK YOU.

58:56 - >>NEEDS CAROLYN CARTER

58:58 - REPRESENTED BY MATTHEW CORD.

59:28 - >>GOOD MORNING ON A SUNDAY

59:29 - PLEASE, THE COURT

59:30 - I'D LIKE TO BEGIN BY INTRODUCE

59:32 - MY CO-COUNSEL EXCELLENT MISTER

59:34 - MIKE PICKED ON.

59:36 - AND WITH THAT I FEEL LIKE THEY

59:37 - CAN NOW GO FORWARD AND WHAT WAS

59:39 - THE

59:39 - NAME AGAIN. MY NAME IS I

59:41 - APOLOGIZE THAT I FOCUS SO MUCH

59:43 - MICHAEL THERE THAT

59:48 - >>THANK YOU JUSTICE DONE HERE,

59:49 - MATTHEW GORDON ON BEHALF OF THE

59:50 - CAR PETITIONERS ALONG WITH MIKE

59:52 - MCDONALD.

59:55 - >>DURING HIS 4 YEARS AGO.

59:57 - THIS COURT AND LEAGUE OF WOMEN

59:58 - 220 VOTERS ADOPTED THE MAP GUIDED

01:00 - 02.640 BY THE FREE IN THE FALL

01:00 - 04.170 ELECTIONS CALL CLAUSE

01:00 - 06.540 AND ITS OVERARCHING OBJECTIVE

01:00 - 09.060 OF PREVENTING VOTE DILUTION BY

01:00 - 11.520 MANDATING THAT THE POWER OF

01:00 - 13.680 THE VOTE BE EQUALIZED TO THE

01:00 - 15.380 GREATEST DEGREE POSSIBLE.

01:00 - 16.640 THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF THIS

01:00 - 18.040 COURT AND ONLY WOMEN VOTERS

01:00 - 20.330 CASE. THE MAP THAT THIS COURT

01:00 - 23.190 CHOSE. REFLECTED THIS COURT'S

01:00 - 25.090 CONSIDERED JUDGMENT ABOUT

01:00 - 27.340 HOW BEST TO PUT THOSE

01:00 - 29.090 CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES INTO

01:00 - 31.250 EFFECT. IT'S A GOOD MAP.

01:00 - 33.190 IT'S A FAIR MAP, IT'S PRODUCED

01:00 - 35.810 FAIR OUTCOMES. NO PARTY TO THIS

01:00 - 37.150 PROCEEDING, NONE OF THE MANY

01:00 - 38.840 MANY PARTIES ARE MAKING HERE

01:00 - 40.790 HAVE SAID ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY

01:00 - 41.610 ABOUT THAT NOW.

01:00 - 44.460 NOW THIS COURT HAS TO CHOOSE A

01:00 - 46.570 MATH AGAIN. AND AGAIN IS

01:00 - 48.920 CHARGED WITH DECIDING HOW TO

01:00 - 51.010 BEST EFFECTUATE THOSE IDEALS

01:00 - 52.100 AND THAT MANDATE.

01:00 - 54.990 AND THE QUESTION IS WHERE TO

01:00 - 55.700 EVEN BEGIN.

01:00 - 59.150 AND THE CARTER PETITIONER

01:00 - 00.420 SUGGEST THAT YOU BEGIN

01:01 - 02.590 WHERE YOU LEFT OFF IN 2018

01:01 - 03.750 THAT'S WHAT THE CARTER

01:01 - 05.470 PETITIONERS DID IN CREATING THE

01:01 - 07.200 MAP THAT HAS BEEN PUT FORWARD

01:01 - 09.020 BEFORE THIS COURT DOCTOR RODIN

01:01 - 11.670 PICKED UP THE PEN, WHERE YOU

01:01 - 13.560 SAID IT DOWN IN 2018.

01:01 - 17.940 AND THE CAR TO MAP DOESN'T JUST

01:01 - 19.070 BEGIN WHERE YOU

01:01 - 21.690 LEFT OFF THE CURRENT MAP ALSO

01:01 - 23.760 SOUGHT TO IMPROVE ON THE 2018

01:01 - 25.170 MAP ON THE TRADITIONAL

01:01 - 26.780 REDISTRICTING CRITERIA AND IT

01:01 - 27.440 DOES SO.

01:01 - 30.470 THE CURRENT MAP ALSO EXCELS ON

01:01 - 32.040 THE PARTISAN FAIRNESS CRITERIA.

01:01 - 32.740 THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT

01:01 - 34.050 CRITERIA THAT INFO TO BUY THE

01:01 - 36.610 CARTER MAP IS UNSURPASSED ON

01:01 - 37.650 PARTISAN FAIRNESS.

01:01 - 40.170 AND THE CAR TO MAP UNDISPUTED

01:01 - 42.550 LEE AND THIS IS MAYBE ONE OF

01:01 - 43.600 THE FEW POINTS WHERE THERE IS

01:01 - 45.280 NO DISPUTE. THE CARTER MET

01:01 - 46.990 UNDISPUTED LEE STANDS OUT AS

01:01 - 48.430 THE ONE THAT MOST HONORS.

01:01 - 50.300 THIS COURT'S JUDGMENT

01:01 - 52.620 IN 2018 BY CHANGING AS LITTLE

01:01 - 53.810 AS POSSIBLE FROM THE

01:01 - 55.080 OUT.

01:01 - 57.010 >>CAN I STOP YOU CAN SEE STILL

01:01 - 58.300 IN HIS 2 MINUTE AND YOU

01:02 - 02.300 >>I MEAN WE WILL SOON BE IS NOT

01:02 - 04.120 OKAY WITH IT I DID HAVE A

01:02 - 04.930 QUESTION ABOUT

01:02 - 08.050 >>WE'VE STARTED TO HEAR AND

01:02 - 09.650 WE'RE GOING TO HEAR MORE I KNOW

01:02 - 11.200 ABOUT LEAST CHANGE

01:02 - 13.900 AND THAT IS ONE OF TOUTED THE

01:02 - 15.360 BENEFITS OF THE CARTER

01:02 - 18.680 MAPS THAT IT HEARS CLOSELY TO

01:02 - 20.490 OUR MAP THE 2018.

01:02 - 23.680 IT MAYBE OF ALL THE

01:02 - 25.760 MAPS SUBMITTED HAS THE LEASH

01:02 - 27.020 CHANGE FROM OUR

01:02 - 29.210 EXISTING MAP. EVERYBODY KNOWS

01:02 - 31.050 WE CAN'T USE THE 2018 MAP

01:02 - 32.250 ANYMORE BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE

01:02 - 35.280 17 DISTRICTS, NOT 18 DISTRICTS

01:02 - 37.530 WE OBVIOUSLY NEED A NEW MAP AND

01:02 - 39.180 IT'S ADMIRABLE I THINK

01:02 - 42.610 2 DRAW A MAP THAT IS VERY CLOSE

01:02 - 44.850 TO WHAT THE 2018 MAP DID.

01:02 - 47.560 BECAUSE IT OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW

01:02 - 48.940 HAS PROVEN TO BE A

01:02 - 51.890 FAIR MAP. MY CONCERN THOUGH IS

01:02 - 53.940 WE LEASED CHANGE FROM THE

01:02 - 56.650 EXISTING MAP HAS NEVER BEEN TO

01:02 - 57.720 MY KNOWLEDGE AND

01:02 - 01.050 ARTICULATED STANDARD THAT OUR

01:03 - 03.080 COURT HAS MADE CERTAINLY NOT IN

01:03 - 04.410 LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

01:03 - 06.500 AND MAYBE YOU COULD EDUCATE ME

01:03 - 08.310 IF IF THERE ARE OTHER PLACES

01:03 - 10.160 WHERE WE'VE SAID THAT WE WOULD

01:03 - 12.720 ADOPT LEAST CHANGE BUT ALL

01:03 - 14.670 OF THESE PARTIES WHO HAVE

01:03 - 17.520 SUBMITTED MAPS TO MY KNOWLEDGE

01:03 - 19.860 HAVE NOT WE REGARDED THAT AS

01:03 - 20.160 ONE

01:03 - 23.350 OF OUR REQUIRED STANDARDS SO I

01:03 - 26.000 JUST LIKE TO HEAR YOU HEAR YOUR

01:03 - 28.090 OPINION ON HOW RELEVANT LEAST

01:03 - 29.620 AND OR IT ISN'T WHETHER WE

01:03 - 31.580 REALLY CAN CONSIDER IT IN THIS

01:03 - 32.280 CASE.

01:03 - 34.470 >>IN LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

01:03 - 36.150 THIS COURT DID NOT USE THE

01:03 - 37.610 PHRASE LEAVES CHANGE THIS COURT

01:03 - 38.150 DID TALK

01:03 - 40.880 THE COURT THE PRESERVATION

01:03 - 42.370 OF DISTRICTS OF THE CORE OF

01:03 - 43.650 DISTRICTS AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A

01:03 - 45.400 CONSTITUTIONAL MAP TO COMPARE

01:03 - 46.100 IT TO THOSE

01:03 - 47.230 CURRENTLY ANALYZE.

01:03 - 48.600 >>LEASE CHANGE BECAUSE WE WERE

01:03 - 50.100 LOOKING AT A GERRYMANDERED MAP

01:03 - 50.620 OF CREATING A

01:03 - 52.480 NEW THAT. THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S

01:03 - 53.700 AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION THAT I

01:03 - 55.940 AGREE WITH YOU THAT PLEASE

01:03 - 57.590 CHANGE DIDN'T COME TO THE FORE

01:03 - 59.110 IN LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

01:03 - 00.590 BECAUSE THE CIRCUMSTANCES THERE

01:04 - 01.880 WERE DIFFERENT. BUT THIS COURT

01:04 - 02.950 DID ACKNOWLEDGE THAT

01:04 - 04.490 PRESERVATION OF DISTRICTS.

01:04 - 06.830 >>A HISTORICAL

01:04 - 08.500 REDISTRICTING CRITERIA. THIS

01:04 - 09.720 COURT ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IN

01:04 - 11.270 MELLOW AS WELL WHERE I THINK

01:04 - 12.100 THE COURT SAID THE

01:04 - 14.270 COMFORTABLE FAMILIARITY OF OF

01:04 - 15.890 EXISTING DISTRICTS. SO THIS

01:04 - 17.030 COURT HAS ON AT LEAST 2

01:04 - 18.830 OCCASIONS TALKED ABOUT THE

01:04 - 20.330 IMPORTANCE OF PRESERVATION OF

01:04 - 21.340 DISTRICTS WHICH IS

01:04 - 24.320 THE SAME IDEA AS LEAVES CHANGE

01:04 - 26.090 AND ALSO KEY TO THAT

01:04 - 28.280 >>JUST 12 POINT IS AND

01:04 - 30.860 ALSO KEY TO RECOGNIZE THE

01:04 - 32.840 PRINCIPAL DIFFERENCE THAT I

01:04 - 34.950 VENTURE TO MISTER HARRIS

01:04 - 37.430 TAKE THAT OUR ENTERPRISE IN

01:04 - 39.650 2018 WAS TO RELATE TO A

01:04 - 42.670 GERRYMANDERED MAP AND CREATE

01:04 - 45.120 SOMETHING NEW BASED ON PAST

01:04 - 47.920 PERFORMANCE. WHEREAS HERE,

01:04 - 50.540 WE'RE WE'RE LOOKING AT.

01:04 - 52.970 MAKING NECESSARY CHANGE

01:04 - 55.290 TO IT. A FAIR AMOUNT.

01:04 - 57.840 THAT WE CREATED AND AGAINST

01:04 - 59.190 WHICH WE HAVE NO PERFORMANCE

01:04 - 01.160 METRICS WE DO HAVE PERFORMED

01:05 - 02.740 THE TRICKS FOR THE FOR THE MAP

01:05 - 03.650 THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR THE

01:05 - 05.460 LAST 2 ELECTIONS AND I MEAN NOT

01:05 - 05.700 THE.

01:05 - 07.400 >>ANOTHER 3 CYCLES.

01:05 - 09.600 WE SHOULD SURE SO THERE ARE

01:05 - 11.810 PERFORMANCE METRICS ON HOW THIS

01:05 - 13.670 COURT'S 2018 MAP HAS PERFORMED

01:05 - 15.120 IN THE REAL WORLD AND I AND I

01:05 - 16.640 DON'T THINK AGAIN ANY PARTY HAS

01:05 - 18.400 CONTENDED THAT THE MAP HAS

01:05 - 20.350 NOT PERFORMED. WELL HAS NOT

01:05 - 22.640 PERFORMED FAIRLY AND THE COUPLE

01:05 - 24.580 9, 9, CONGRESSIONAL.

01:05 - 26.980 >>ELECTION IS PROBABLY PRETTY

01:05 - 28.110 GOOD EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS A

01:05 - 28.840 FAIR AMOUNT.

01:05 - 31.110 >>I AGREE WITH THAT SO WE DO

01:05 - 33.030 HAVE IT I'M SO SORRY I

01:05 - 35.020 TOTALLY MISSPENT I MEANT WE

01:05 - 36.590 HAVE NO OBVIOUSLY BE A BIT

01:05 - 37.680 BEFORE MOST METRICS

01:05 - 40.640 4 THE DISTRICTS THAT ANY OF YOU

01:05 - 41.540 HAVE PROPOSED

01:05 - 43.730 THE FUTURE DISTRICT 2 WE DON'T

01:05 - 46.960 THEREFORE IT'S THERE'S A VIRTUE

01:05 - 47.500 IN USING

01:05 - 49.940 THE CORE. I AGREE COMPLETELY

01:05 - 51.300 THERE IS ADDITIONAL VIRTUE IN

01:05 - 52.710 USING THE KORAN AND I THINK

01:05 - 54.220 THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT

01:05 - 56.090 THE LEASE CHANGE APPROACH DOES

01:05 - 57.150 WHEN YOU'RE STARTING WITH A

01:05 - 58.230 GOOD FAIR MAP

01:05 - 00.130 IS IT SERVES AS AN ADDITIONAL

01:06 - 02.160 BOWL OR ADDITIONAL GUARDIAN

01:06 - 04.590 AGAINST BIAS

01:06 - 07.000 SNEAKING IN TO MAPS BECAUSE

01:06 - 07.570 IT'S A WAY

01:06 - 10.400 TO CHECK. HOW IT'S A WAY TO

01:06 - 12.050 ADHERE TO LINES THAT WERE DRAWN

01:06 - 13.470 AND THAT HAVE PERFORMED FAIRLY

01:06 - 14.700 OF COURSE THERE HAVE TO BE

01:06 - 16.710 CHANGES. AND THERE ARE.

01:06 - 17.650 I'M SORRY.

01:06 - 20.670 >>HE MAY HAVE BEEN SAVED WAYNE

01:06 - 22.180 EXACTLY WHAT HAS BEEN HAS BEEN

01:06 - 22.680 FOLLOWING

01:06 - 24.890 UP ON. WELL JUST AS WHAT MISTER

01:06 - 26.500 HAVE RIDGE THAT ARE GETTING IN

01:06 - 29.380 YOU HEARD OF THAT LEAVES CHANGE

01:06 - 31.490 DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE WE HAVE

01:06 - 32.570 ONE LESS DIFFERENT

01:06 - 33.850 DISTRICT. ONE

01:06 - 36.450 LET'S CONGRESS PERSON AND THE

01:06 - 37.890 OLDEST THAT'S THE LAW CHANGE

01:06 - 39.280 THE FACTS CHANGE THEMSELVES SO

01:06 - 39.670 WE HAVE

01:06 - 42.440 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VAX HERE

01:06 - 43.720 BECAUSE OF THE LOSS OF A

01:06 - 45.570 CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, WHY

01:06 - 46.220 DOESN'T THAT

01:06 - 49.750 MAKE THE POTENTIAL OF TRYING TO

01:06 - 50.840 FOLLOW THE OLD MAP

01:06 - 52.030 REALLY PROBLEMATIC.

01:06 - 54.230 >>WELL I HAVE 2 RESPONSES TO

01:06 - 55.990 JUST TO SPARE ONE IS THAT.

01:06 - 58.380 WE'RE NOT SAYING NO CHANGE.

01:06 - 00.090 IT'S NOT NO CHANGE IT

01:07 - 01.690 ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THERE HAVE TO

01:07 - 04.770 BE CHANGES RIGHT AND. AND THIS

01:07 - 06.340 ISN'T A VIRTUE OF THE OF THE

01:07 - 08.530 CARTER MAP IS THAT DOCTOR RODIN

01:07 - 11.500 ALONE AMONG MAPMAKERS MAKERS

01:07 - 13.700 PUT IN HIS REPORT AND TESTIFIED

01:07 - 14.670 BEFORE THE SPECIAL

01:07 - 16.960 MASTER ABOUT THE CHANGES HE

01:07 - 18.740 MADE AND WHY HE MADE THOSE

01:07 - 20.380 CHANGES SO THIS COURT CONNECT

01:07 - 22.130 ANALYZE WHETHER

01:07 - 24.580 OR NOT WHAT THE RATIONALE WAR

01:07 - 26.330 FOR MAKING THOSE CHANGES AND

01:07 - 28.370 WHY THEY WERE MADE. SO YES, OF

01:07 - 29.320 COURSE THERE HAVE TO BE SOME

01:07 - 31.110 CHANGES BUT IN EVERY

01:07 - 32.910 REDISTRICTING CASE THERE ARE

01:07 - 35.160 CHANGES. EVEN WHERE THERE IS NO

01:07 - 36.530 CHANGE IN THE NUMBER OF

01:07 - 37.980 DISTRICTS, THERE'S CHANGES

01:07 - 39.230 THEIR POPULATION SHIFTS

01:07 - 40.850 DISTRICT LINES HAVE TO BE

01:07 - 43.370 REDRAWN IT'S A DIFFERENCE OF

01:07 - 45.350 DEGREE NOT OF KIND

01:07 - 47.540 BETWEEN THE REDISTRICTING

01:07 - 49.060 SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE

01:07 - 50.880 SHIFTS AMONG THE DISTRICTS IN

01:07 - 51.870 DISTRICT LINES HAVE TO BE

01:07 - 53.520 REDRAWN AND ONE WHERE YOU LOSE

01:07 - 54.780 THE DISTRICT THE LEASE

01:07 - 56.940 CHANGE PRINCIPLE PHYS IN BOTH

01:07 - 00.070 CASES BOTH BECAUSE AGAIN NOT AN

01:08 - 01.130 AND I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR

01:08 - 02.560 HERE ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT

01:08 - 04.900 WE'RE MAKING WE'RE NOT ARGUING

01:08 - 06.300 THAT LEAST CHANGE IS OF

01:08 - 08.370 CONSTITUTIONAL MAGNITUDE THAT

01:08 - 09.630 IT SHOULD BE ELEVATED ABOVE THE

01:08 - 10.820 TRADITIONAL REDISTRICTING

01:08 - 12.660 CRITERIA, WE'RE NOT ARGUING

01:08 - 14.290 THAT LEAST CHANGE IS THE PROPER

01:08 - 15.500 APPROACH IN EVERY CASE

01:08 - 16.960 CERTAINLY AS JUSTICE. TODD

01:08 - 18.510 NOTED, IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN

01:08 - 19.730 THE PROPER APPROACH IN LEAGUE

01:08 - 21.160 OF WOMEN VOTERS GIVEN THE

01:08 - 22.300 TEMPLATE THAT YOU ARE WORKING

01:08 - 24.960 FOR WHAT WE ARE DOING IS THAT

01:08 - 27.010 IN THIS CASE. IT IS A KEY

01:08 - 28.660 FACTOR AND IT IS A DISPOSITIVE

01:08 - 31.010 FACTOR AND IT'S ONE THAT HELPS

01:08 - 32.260 CUT THROUGH

01:08 - 34.000 THE AND WIELDING NUMBER OF

01:08 - 35.610 OTHER FACTORS THAT YOU HAVE YOU

01:08 - 37.580 BEEN PRESIDENT CHARLES MAY I

01:08 - 37.980 COUNCIL.

01:08 - 40.310 >>YES. I DON'T BELIEVE.

01:08 - 42.870 >>THIS COURT IS ASKING OR OR

01:08 - 45.100 TEENS. LET ME REPHRASE THAT

01:08 - 47.000 YOU'RE NOT ASKING THIS COURT TO

01:08 - 49.370 CONSIDER LEAVES CHANGE AS

01:08 - 52.380 A CONSTITUTIONAL CONSTITUTIONAL

01:08 - 54.760 CONCERN FACTOR. THAT'S RIGHT.

01:08 - 57.700 WHAT YOU SOMEWHAT GOOD. NOW.

01:08 - 01.660 I IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT

01:09 - 03.360 NONE OF US ON THIS BENCH OR IN

01:09 - 05.510 THE MAPMAKING BUSINESS THAT IS

01:09 - 07.570 FOR THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WE ARE

01:09 - 10.460 ON WILLINGLY FORTH TO BE HERE.

01:09 - 11.930 SO LET'S MAKE THAT CLEAR.

01:09 - 14.940 THE 2018 MET WITH THE JUDICIAL

01:09 - 18.450 WE CREATED MASK. THE MAJORITY

01:09 - 21.380 OF THE HISTORICAL FACTORS THAT

01:09 - 23.120 ONE CONSIDERS IN

01:09 - 23.890 REAPPORTIONMENT

01:09 - 26.270 AND REDISTRICTING SUCH AS

01:09 - 28.030 PAIRING INCUMBENCY IS COMMUNITY

01:09 - 28.700 THE INTEREST

01:09 - 30.980 THAT REALLY IS AN ISSUE BEST

01:09 - 32.750 DECIDED POLICY WISE BY THE

01:09 - 33.660 GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

01:09 - 36.360 WHAT I'M GATHERING IS THAT

01:09 - 37.550 YOU'RE SAYING SINCE THIS IS THE

01:09 - 40.030 JUDICIAL WE CREATED MATT AND

01:09 - 41.170 OUR GUIDE POST THIS

01:09 - 43.790 2018, MATT TO AVOID THE

01:09 - 45.940 APPEARANCE OF OUR POLITICAL.

01:09 - 47.880 IN PRINT WHEN

01:09 - 50.050 ANY MATT. THE LEAST CHANGED

01:09 - 52.030 FROM THE INITIAL HUGE ISSUE WE

01:09 - 53.290 CREATED MATT

01:09 - 55.450 IS THE BEST WAY TO GO AS AS DO

01:09 - 57.280 I UNDERSTAND YOU THAT'S THAT

01:09 - 58.340 THAT'S PART OF IT.

01:09 - 01.300 >>YES THAT'S PART OF MY THE

01:10 - 02.360 LEAVES CHANGE HAS A NUMBER OF

01:10 - 04.540 VIRTUES THAT BEING 1, ONE OF

01:10 - 06.100 THE VIRTUES IS IT JUST A

01:10 - 07.360 CURIOUS ENOUGH TO MAKE IT A

01:10 - 08.960 JUDICIAL STANDARD POSSIBLY TO

01:10 - 09.930 BE CONSIDERED.

01:10 - 11.880 >>WHEN WE'RE FORCED BETWEEN

01:10 - 13.330 MANY MAFFITT WHEREVER FORCED

01:10 - 13.660 INTO THIS

01:10 - 14.450 POSITION AGAIN.

01:10 - 16.870 >>I'M NOT I'M NOT SUGGESTING

01:10 - 17.840 THAT THIS COURT NEED TO CHANGE

01:10 - 19.110 THE LAW AT ALL I'M SAYING THAT

01:10 - 20.430 IN THIS PARTICULAR

01:10 - 22.050 CIRCUMSTANCE, THIS COURT AS I

01:10 - 23.390 MENTIONED BEFORE HAS PREVIOUSLY

01:10 - 24.500 RECOGNIZED THE VALUE OF

01:10 - 26.290 PRESERVATION OF DISTRICT IN

01:10 - 27.820 THIS PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE

01:10 - 30.130 WHERE THE 4 FLOOR CRITERIA

01:10 - 32.200 DON'T DO THE WORK OF SEPARATING

01:10 - 34.260 OUT THE MAPS HERE. THIS COURT.

01:10 - 36.160 THIS COURT HAS TO LOOK TO

01:10 - 38.250 SOMETHING ELSE AND END LEAST

01:10 - 39.290 CHANGE IS ONE OF THE

01:10 - 41.230 OTHER FACTORS THAT THIS COURT

01:10 - 42.580 SHOULD LOOK TO ALONG WITH

01:10 - 44.150 PARTISAN FAIRNESS AND IT'S ONE

01:10 - 46.700 OR THE CARTER MAP STANDS OUT

01:10 - 48.590 ABOVE THE REST BECAUSE I AGREE

01:10 - 50.780 WITH YOU ON MISTER GORDON.

01:10 - 52.410 >>I THINK THAT THE LEAST

01:10 - 56.610 STANDARD IS ADMIRABLE AND I'D

01:10 - 58.070 BE WILLING TO EMBRACE IT.

01:10 - 01.310 MY PROBLEM IS THAT UNLESS

01:11 - 03.880 WE CAN SAY CLEARLY

01:11 - 05.270 THAT OUR DISCUSSION OF

01:11 - 07.490 PRESERVATION OF DISTRICTS AND

01:11 - 09.060 THE IMPORTANCE THEREOF IN

01:11 - 10.360 LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

01:11 - 12.570 LEAD NATURALLY TO THIS

01:11 - 14.080 CONCLUSION THAT WE'RE GOING TO

01:11 - 14.760 PICK A MAP

01:11 - 17.500 BASED ON AT LEAST IN PART THE

01:11 - 19.520 CRITERIA OF LEAST CHANGE UNLESS

01:11 - 19.840 WE CAN

01:11 - 22.280 SAY THAT I DON'T SEE HOW OTHER

01:11 - 24.730 THAN PROSPECTIVELY WE CAN ADOPT

01:11 - 25.120 LEAST

01:11 - 27.780 CHANGE AS A STANDARD OR A

01:11 - 29.850 CRITERIA OVER AND ABOVE OUR

01:11 - 31.420 CONSTITUTIONAL METRICS THAT

01:11 - 33.630 WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED WHEN.

01:11 - 36.710 ALL OF THE MAPMAKERS AND

01:11 - 38.430 ATTORNEYS BEFORE US

01:11 - 41.100 DID NOT HAVE SOME INDICATION

01:11 - 42.460 FROM THE COURT THAT THAT WOULD

01:11 - 44.420 BE A CRITERIA FOR

01:11 - 46.240 A STANDARD. THAT'S MY PROBLEM,

01:11 - 47.690 NOT THAT IT'S NOT A GOOD THING

01:11 - 48.580 I THINK IT'S

01:11 - 51.940 ADMIRABLE AND I I LIKE, BUT MY

01:11 - 52.670 CONCERN

01:11 - 55.020 OTHER THAN ADOPTING

01:11 - 57.070 PROSPECTIVELY HOW DO WE FAIRLY

01:11 - 57.640 DO THAT IN

01:11 - 59.870 THIS CASE. SURE BUT I THINK

01:11 - 01.130 AGAIN AND NOT TO BEAT A DEAD

01:12 - 02.520 HORSE, BUT THIS COURT HAS

01:12 - 03.580 TALKED ABOUT PRESERVATION OF

01:12 - 05.340 DISTRICT AT LEAST 2 CASES.

01:12 - 07.230 >>AND THAT PRESERVATION OF

01:12 - 08.360 DISTRICTS, PRESERVATION OF

01:12 - 09.750 EXISTING DISTRICT LINES.

01:12 - 12.160 IT'S NOT THE SAME EXACT WORDS

01:12 - 13.700 IS AS LEAST CHANGE BUT IT'S

01:12 - 15.480 TALKING ABOUT THE SAME CONCEPT

01:12 - 17.340 THAT YOU LEAVE IN PLACE AS MANY

01:12 - 18.560 OF THE EXISTING DISTRICTS

01:12 - 19.940 AS YOU CAN SO THEY'RE SAYING

01:12 - 22.050 FLOWS NATURALLY FITS RIGHT SAID

01:12 - 23.850 BEFORE IT DOES AND THE COURT AS

01:12 - 25.470 A SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED.

01:12 - 27.080 >>PRESERVATION OF DISTRICTS AS

01:12 - 27.710 ONE OF THE

01:12 - 29.420 HISTORICAL REDISTRICTING

01:12 - 30.730 PRINCIPAL SO WE'VE GOT THE

01:12 - 31.660 TRADITIONAL WE'VE GOT THE

01:12 - 33.760 HISTORICAL. INCLUDING

01:12 - 35.020 PRESERVATION OF DISTRICTS.

01:12 - 37.330 COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST ETC

01:12 - 39.700 SO IT'S ALREADY BEEN IDENTIFIED

01:12 - 41.150 AS SOMETHING THAT THIS COURT

01:12 - 43.130 CONSIDERS IT'S JUST THAT IT'S

01:12 - 43.630 NEVER HAD

01:12 - 44.760 THE OPPORTUNITY.

01:12 - 47.850 >>DO THE I JUST US WITH MORE

01:12 - 50.750 QUESTIONS DUTY ALL THE TIME AND

01:12 - 52.430 DO ANY OF THE OTHER.

01:12 - 55.770 OF THE 13 MAPS TO ANY OF THE

01:12 - 59.290 EMPHASIZE THIS AS A CRITERIA,

01:12 - 00.020 LEAST CHANGE.

01:13 - 01.930 >>I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY DO

01:13 - 03.650 YOUR HONOR BUT AGAIN I THINK

01:13 - 05.460 PART OF THAT IS THAT THE OTHER

01:13 - 07.930 MAPS DON'T HAVE THE SAME RECORD

01:13 - 09.870 BEFORE THE COURT OF HOW THEY

01:13 - 11.930 WERE CREATED. SO WE DON'T HAVE

01:13 - 13.380 VISIBILITY INTO

01:13 - 14.100 WHY.

01:13 - 16.560 WHY MOST OF THE OTHER MAPS

01:13 - 17.790 ENDED UP WHERE THEY DID WE

01:13 - 19.900 DON'T HAVE VISIBILITY INTO HOW

01:13 - 20.650 MUCH HE TOOK INTO

01:13 - 21.950 CONSIDERATION, THE DISTRICT

01:13 - 24.020 LINES IN THE 2018 MET WELL, WE

01:13 - 25.710 HAVE OUR MAPS THAT ARE

01:13 - 27.450 PRESENTED TO THE COURT. THE

01:13 - 30.230 PROVIDENCE IS IS IT IS UNKNOWN

01:13 - 31.310 AND THEN A NUMBER

01:13 - 33.760 OF THAT PARTIES PUT FORWARD AN

01:13 - 36.080 EXPERT TO TESTIFY ABOUT THE

01:13 - 37.750 SEARCHES OF THE MAP BUT THAT

01:13 - 39.300 EXPERT WAS NOT THE PERSON

01:13 - 41.720 WHO WHO CREATED THE MAP OTHER

01:13 - 42.730 THAN IN GROSSMAN.

01:13 - 44.860 >>GROSSMAN WE KNOW THAT WAS

01:13 - 47.300 CREATED BY AN ALGORITHM I DON'T

01:13 - 48.930 KNOW WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE CODE

01:13 - 50.250 FOR THE OUT FOR THEM. BUT YES,

01:13 - 51.740 WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW A LITTLE

01:13 - 53.560 BIT MORE ABOUT THE AND WE DON'T

01:13 - 56.080 KNOW ABOUT WHY THAT PARTICULAR

01:13 - 58.540 CHANGES WERE MADE AS WE FOR THE

01:13 - 59.310 AT

01:13 - 02.010 INDEPENDENT SAYS NONE OF THAT

01:14 - 04.030 CAN SATISFY MY REALLY SORT OF

01:14 - 07.270 LOOKED AT WHAT CLIENT DID IN

01:14 - 08.650 THIS CONTEXT, MAYBE A LITTLE

01:14 - 09.390 BIT DIFFERENTLY.

01:14 - 13.040 >>BUT I VIEW THE APPROACH OF

01:14 - 14.260 LEAST CHANGE.

01:14 - 18.440 >>AS AN APPROACH. TOO

01:14 - 19.520 CREATING.

01:14 - 23.340 A NEW MAP IN THIS REDISTRICTING

01:14 - 26.100 CONTEXT. IT'S AN APPROACH 2

01:14 - 26.490 DRAWING

01:14 - 28.900 A MAP. JUST AS THE

01:14 - 31.580 REDISTRICTING APPROACH THAT WE

01:14 - 33.690 SEIZED BY THE GRASS MEANS IS AN

01:14 - 35.990 APPROACH IN CREATING A MAN.

01:14 - 38.470 I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANYONE ELSE

01:14 - 40.020 DID. BUT WITH THIS COURT HAS

01:14 - 44.450 NEVER BLACKS. ANNIE APPROACH TO

01:14 - 44.900 DRAWING

01:14 - 47.440 A MAN. WHAT THIS COURT HAS

01:14 - 49.060 ALWAYS KIND AND MY

01:14 - 50.380 UNDERSTANDING IN MELO IS

01:14 - 51.740 PROBABLY YOU KNOW THAT THE

01:14 - 53.830 ANALOGY TO WHERE WE

01:14 - 56.460 ARE NOW IS YOU ANALYZE THE MAP

01:14 - 58.330 SAID OR PRESENTED TO ME.

01:14 - 01.200 IT'S FINE I I I APPRECIATE

01:15 - 03.590 THE ART UNDERSTANDING THE

01:15 - 05.380 MANNER IN WHICH YOUR CLIENT

01:15 - 06.960 DEVELOP ITS MASK,

01:15 - 09.490 BUT TO ME REQUIRING

01:15 - 11.640 THAT THERE'S SOME PRECEDENTIAL

01:15 - 13.870 BASIS IN ORDER TO DRAW A MAP

01:15 - 16.270 THAT WAY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT

01:15 - 17.010 JUST NEVER CROSSED

01:15 - 19.910 MY MIND. I I AM I MISSING

01:15 - 21.720 SOMETHING IN THE CONTEXT OF

01:15 - 23.260 THIS WAS THE APPROACH THAT YOUR

01:15 - 25.910 CLIENT CHOSE TO A DOG.

01:15 - 28.890 IN CREATING A PLAN THAT IS NOW

01:15 - 30.030 BEFORE THE SPORT.

01:15 - 32.610 >>SO THAT IS THE APPROACH THAT

01:15 - 33.610 IS PART OF THE PROTESTS SHOULD

01:15 - 34.180 BE CLEAR.

01:15 - 35.690 SO THE APPROACH WAS TO START

01:15 - 35.880 WITH THE

01:15 - 38.380 2018 MAP. AND TO CHANGE AS

01:15 - 40.830 LITTLE AS POSSIBLE WHILE ALSO

01:15 - 43.340 THAT HEARING TO OR IMPROVING ON

01:15 - 46.200 THE 20 TEAMS MAPS PERFORMANCE

01:15 - 47.450 ON THE FOR TRADITIONAL

01:15 - 49.330 CRITERIA, YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT

01:15 - 50.470 CREATED TO BETTER MATH, YOU

01:15 - 51.860 KNOW THE OTHER MAPS THAT WE HAD

01:15 - 53.830 BEFORE I'M ARGUING THAT THAT'S

01:15 - 54.140 ONE

01:15 - 55.010 WAY TO.

01:15 - 57.480 >>AND TO SEPARATE OUT THE MAPS,

01:15 - 58.470 YOU HAVE A LOT OF METRICS

01:15 - 59.650 BEFORE YOU KNOW A LOT OF WAYS

01:15 - 00.960 TO MEASURE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

01:16 - 02.310 BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO

01:16 - 05.640 CLARIFY IN IN MY OWN AN ANSWER

01:16 - 07.770 IN MY MIND I JUST THIS KIND OF

01:16 - 10.560 QUESTIONS. I'M I'VE GOT A WIFE.

01:16 - 15.100 TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD HAVE

01:16 - 15.990 AT ANY OTHER

01:16 - 17.660 POINT IN TIME IN OUR

01:16 - 19.480 JURISPRUDENCE HAVE HAD TO HAVE

01:16 - 20.470 DISCUSSED.

01:16 - 24.090 >>THIS MANNER OF DRAWING A MAP.

01:16 - 27.380 NEVER ADDRESSED THE MANNER OF

01:16 - 28.860 DRAWING A MAP I HAVE BEEN TO

01:16 - 30.750 RECOGNIZE THAT COMPUTERS YOU

01:16 - 31.780 USE TO DO IT.

01:16 - 33.090 >>WELL THERE ARE 2 WAYS OF

01:16 - 34.690 LOOKING AT ONE IS TO TALK ABOUT

01:16 - 36.450 HOW IT WAS DRAWN AND THE SECOND

01:16 - 36.700 WAY

01:16 - 38.600 IS THAT LEASE CHANGES AND

01:16 - 40.370 INDEPENDENT METRIC AS A WAY TO

01:16 - 42.140 EVALUATE THE MAPS ON THE BACK

01:16 - 43.550 AND SO IF YOU WANT TO SET ASIDE

01:16 - 45.490 HOW THE MAP WAS DRAWN. THAT'S

01:16 - 47.800 FINE. BUT THAT BUT THERE'S ALSO

01:16 - 50.070 THE THAT IS A METRIC IT'S

01:16 - 51.550 UNDISPUTED HERE THAT THE CARTER

01:16 - 53.660 PLAN DOES THE BEST ON

01:16 - 55.650 DETERMINING HOW MANY

01:16 - 57.350 PENNSYLVANIANS WILL REMAIN IN

01:16 - 58.640 THE SAME DISTRICT THEY WERE IN

01:16 - 00.860 2018. AND THAT HAS INDEPENDENT

01:17 - 02.950 VALUE AS AS RECOGNIZED BY THIS

01:17 - 04.820 COURT AND ALSO COURTS ARE

01:17 - 05.830 NUMEROUS COURTS AROUND THE

01:17 - 07.900 COUNTRY HAVE ADOPTED THE LEAST

01:17 - 10.240 CHANGE APPROACH. INCLUDING

01:17 - 11.040 MINNESOTA

01:17 - 12.770 AND WISCONSIN, INCLUDING IN

01:17 - 14.200 THIS RIGHT NOW THERE ARE 2

01:17 - 15.850 OTHER LIFE IN PAST CASES

01:17 - 17.350 GOING ON AROUND THE COUNTRY,

01:17 - 18.520 MINNESOTA AND WISCONSIN WHERE

01:17 - 19.840 COURTS ARE TAKING THAT LEAST

01:17 - 20.580 CHANGE APPROACH.

01:17 - 21.850 >>I THINK THERE'S I THINK

01:17 - 22.590 THERE'S I THINK THERE'S

01:17 - 24.310 PROBABLY SOME VALUE TO A NICE

01:17 - 25.620 CHANGE OF APPROACH, I'M JUST

01:17 - 26.300 NOT SURE.

01:17 - 28.380 I MEAN I'M LOOKING AT THE MAPS

01:17 - 29.630 WE'RE ALL WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT

01:17 - 30.720 COLOR-CODED MAPS THAT WOULD

01:17 - 31.620 HAVE BEEN NICE IF YOU ALREADY

01:17 - 35.890 USE THE SAME BUT BUT WE CAN ALL

01:17 - 37.520 SEE THEM THERE'S NO MAP THAT

01:17 - 39.120 REALLY GOTS

01:17 - 41.290 THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT HORRIBLY

01:17 - 42.680 I MEAN YOU CAN YOU CAN MEASURE

01:17 - 44.820 BY METRICS IN 80% OF THE PEOPLE

01:17 - 46.300 TOGETHER 70 OR 60.

01:17 - 47.420 BUT IT'S SORT OF LIKE THE

01:17 - 48.780 EFFICIENCY GAP WHAT'S THE

01:17 - 50.040 WHAT'S THE MATERIAL DIFFERENCE

01:17 - 51.640 BETWEEN A ONE 0.2 EFFICIENCY

01:17 - 53.620 GAP AND A 2.2 OFFICIALS TO GAP

01:17 - 55.060 WHAT'S THE MATERIAL DIFFERENCE

01:17 - 58.260 TREE MEASURING EXISTING LINES

01:17 - 00.620 BETWEEN BETTER 74% EVERYBODY IN

01:18 - 02.650 THE SAME DISTRICT VERSUS 83% IS

01:18 - 03.220 IT BETTER.

01:18 - 04.970 YEAH, I GUESS SO BUT IS IT IS

01:18 - 05.710 IT MATERIALLY

01:18 - 07.770 BUT I GUESS MY

01:18 - 08.840 QUESTION IS ARE YOU TELLING ME

01:18 - 11.140 I SOME TREND OR SHE MENTIONED

01:18 - 13.330 FAIRNESS EARLIER IN YOUR BEER

01:18 - 14.320 WINE OF ARGUMENT, HOW DO YOU

01:18 - 15.610 DEFINE A FAIR MAP.

01:18 - 18.360 >>YEAH AND IF I COULD BEGIN

01:18 - 20.160 JUSTICE FROSTBITE BY ADDRESSING

01:18 - 21.570 WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT ARE THESE

01:18 - 23.450 MATERIAL DIFFERENCES AND I

01:18 - 24.040 WOULD JUST SAY

01:18 - 26.730 FOR THE FOR EXAMPLE, THE

01:18 - 27.790 ATTORNEY WHO ARGUED BEFORE ME

01:18 - 28.980 MISTER HAVE A STICK YOU ASKED

01:18 - 30.460 WHAT PERCENT SAYS HE'S REACHED

01:18 - 32.770 HIS MAP PERTAINING TO 76%

01:18 - 35.680 AND THE PART OF THAT NORTH OF

01:18 - 37.590 86% OF PEOPLE IN THE SAME

01:18 - 39.900 DISTRICT. THAT'S OVER A

01:18 - 41.950 MILLION PEOPLE IN PENNSYLVANIA.

01:18 - 43.170 SO IS THAT A MATERIAL

01:18 - 44.430 DIFFERENCE THAT'S FOR THIS

01:18 - 46.510 COURT TO DECIDE THAT. BUT THESE

01:18 - 48.000 THESE ARE REAL DIFFERENCES

01:18 - 50.520 AND BECAUSE THIS COURT IS BEING

01:18 - 52.370 TASKED WITH CHOOSING AMONG THE

01:18 - 53.010 MAPS.

01:18 - 55.480 AT SOME POINT THIS COURT IS

01:18 - 56.520 GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE.

01:18 - 59.280 YOU KNOW WHAT RELATIVE LEVEL

01:18 - 01.360 OF DIFFERENCE MATTERS AND I

01:19 - 02.870 SUBMIT THAT A DIFFERENCE OF

01:19 - 03.570 MORE THAN A MILLION

01:19 - 05.740 PENNSYLVANIANS REMAINING WITHIN

01:19 - 07.330 THEIR HOME DISTRICT. IT'S ONE

01:19 - 07.940 THAT MATTERS.

01:19 - 11.300 >>VIEW WE'RE DONE I SHOW YOU ON

01:19 - 13.180 THE ON THE ON THE SECOND POINT

01:19 - 14.040 WHAT DO YOU DETERMINE TO BE A

01:19 - 14.620 FAIR MATCH.

01:19 - 17.180 >>SO I FEAR MAP I THINK WE HAVE

01:19 - 18.500 TO BE GUIDED BY WHAT THIS COURT

01:19 - 20.450 SAID IN IN LEAGUE OF

01:19 - 22.940 WOMEN VOTERS AND AND AGAIN THE

01:19 - 24.390 IDEA IS TO PREVENT VOTE.

01:19 - 26.130 DILUTION YEAH I I

01:19 - 26.720 I I.

01:19 - 28.250 >>I'M SORRY BUT I I KNOW THE

01:19 - 29.450 VOTE DILUTION LANGUAGE IT

01:19 - 31.500 REALLY COMES DOWN TO SPLITS IT

01:19 - 32.530 COMES DOWN TO IS IT GOING TO BE

01:19 - 34.050 LEAN DEMOCRAT EARLY REPUBLICAN

01:19 - 34.840 THAT THAT'S REALLY THE

01:19 - 35.360 QUESTION.

01:19 - 36.120 >>WELL, THERE'S THERE ARE A

01:19 - 37.710 NUMBER OF WAYS TO TO EVALUATE

01:19 - 39.210 ITS IT'S NOT WHAT IS YOUR WHAT

01:19 - 40.290 YOUR MAP COME DOWN TO

01:19 - 42.210 WHAT IS MY MARRIAGE ACTED BASED

01:19 - 44.900 ON PAST ELECTIONS. SO IT

01:19 - 46.230 DEPENDS ON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT

01:19 - 47.440 AND WHAT THAT IS BUT HOW ABOUT

01:19 - 48.650 DAYS REDISTRICTING EVERY DAY

01:19 - 49.620 SEEMS LIKE A GOOD DAY

01:19 - 51.900 TO DESTROY. I'M GONNA DAVE'S

01:19 - 53.450 REDISTRICTING I TOLD YOU THAT

01:19 - 54.990 IF A COUNTY OF LIENS

01:19 - 56.840 AND THAT YOUR MAP IS 10

01:19 - 58.500 DEMOCRATS TO 7 REPUBLICANS

01:19 - 59.580 WOULD YOU THINK I'M OFF

01:19 - 00.930 I WOULD THINK THAT I WOULD

01:20 - 02.890 DIRECT YOU TO DOCTOR REBUTTAL

01:20 - 04.430 REPORT WHERE HE HAS THAT SAME

01:20 - 05.660 NUMBER THEY'RE 10 7 BUT

01:20 - 06.710 HE EXPLAINS.

01:20 - 08.990 >>THAT REALLY THE MOST LIKELY

01:20 - 10.970 OUTCOME FROM THIS MAP IS 8

01:20 - 13.000 SEATS FOR DENVER 8 OR 9 SEATS

01:20 - 14.620 FOR DEMOCRATS BECAUSE OF

01:20 - 16.330 DISTRICT ONE AND REPRESENTATIVE

01:20 - 19.250 FOR FITZPATRICK A PERFORMING

01:20 - 20.340 AND BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT

01:20 - 20.620 ONE

01:20 - 21.060 OF THE

01:20 - 24.130 ONE OF REMAINING DISTRICTS IS

01:20 - 25.730 BASICALLY A TOSS-UP DISTRICT.

01:20 - 27.290 >>SO IT'S MY MY MY FINAL PUSH

01:20 - 28.450 TO THE PRESS BUT I'M I'M

01:20 - 29.520 INDULGING NEW CHIEF IS

01:20 - 30.580 INDULGING HERE IS THE NEW

01:20 - 36.510 APP THAT YOU SUBMITTED TO THE

01:20 - 38.290 SPECIAL MASTER. WE HAD A

01:20 - 40.170 2 PERSON VOTER DEVIATION

01:20 - 41.770 BETWEEN DISTRICTS AND UNDER THE

01:20 - 42.760 UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT'S

01:20 - 44.120 DECISION AND KARCHER VERSUS

01:20 - 45.620 DAD AGAIN AND CONSIDERING THE

01:20 - 47.430 FACT THAT WE HAVE 11 OTHER MAPS

01:20 - 48.640 THAT WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE A ONE

01:20 - 50.190 POINT VOTER DISTRIBUTION WOULD

01:20 - 51.600 SUGGEST THAT YOUR MAP DOESN'T

01:20 - 53.360 SATISFY THE ONE PERSON ONE

01:20 - 54.940 VOTE. AND HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO

01:20 - 55.340 THAT.

01:20 - 56.980 >>THIS I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY

01:20 - 58.220 AUTHORITY THAT SUGGESTS THAT

01:20 - 59.760 THE 2 PERSON DEVIATION

01:20 - 02.210 DOES NOT SATISFY ONE PROBABLY

01:21 - 03.450 CAN BUT THE KARCHER

01:21 - 05.610 VERSUS DAGGETT SAYS AS CLOSELY

01:21 - 06.920 EQUAL AS POSSIBLE AND TO

01:21 - 08.740 MINIMIZE TVA SHUNS ARE NOT

01:21 - 11.140 PERMITTED TO SEND IN THEIR IN

01:21 - 12.580 NUMEROUS CASES THAT WE CITED IN

01:21 - 13.240 OUR BRIEFING THAT

01:21 - 15.710 TALK ABOUT THAT ADOPT AND BLESS

01:21 - 17.500 MAPS THAT HAVE MORE THAN A 2%

01:21 - 19.040 DEVIATION. AND THIS COURT AND

01:21 - 21.920 MELO SAID THAT ADV AND THEY

01:21 - 22.870 SCORED A MELLOW.

01:21 - 26.330 IN FACT CHOSE A MAP WITH ABOUT

01:21 - 28.630 A 50% DEVIATION OVER MAP WITH

01:21 - 29.930 PERFECT DEVIATION. SO THIS

01:21 - 31.880 COURT HAS OUR DECIDED THAT

01:21 - 34.130 MINOR DEVIATIONS SUCH AS

01:21 - 35.640 THOSE ARE NOT YOU CAN'T

01:21 - 37.200 SUPPLANT THE SUPREME COURT'S

01:21 - 39.050 UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT ON

01:21 - 41.190 ON ONE PERSON ONE VOTE. BUT

01:21 - 42.470 WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT.

01:21 - 44.950 THE CASES THAT HAVE COME OUT

01:21 - 46.770 SINCE CARTER HAVE NOT SAID THAT

01:21 - 46.820 A

01:21 - 49.320 2 PERSON DEVIATION IS THE

01:21 - 51.210 VIOLATOR OF VIOLATIVE OF ONE

01:21 - 53.000 PERSON ONE VOTE. AND I WOULD

01:21 - 55.090 ADDRESS ALSO YOU COURT'S

01:21 - 56.280 ATTENTION DURING HIS ATTENTION

01:21 - 58.340 TO THE MAP THAT WE PUT IN WITH

01:21 - 00.550 OUR SUBMISSION WAS IT WAS A

01:22 - 02.300 SLIGHTLY REVISED CARTER MAP

01:22 - 03.800 BECAUSE AFTER THE SPECIAL

01:22 - 05.620 MASTERS RIGHT WAS IT WAS YOU

01:22 - 07.720 SEEK LEAVE SUPPLEMENT THE

01:22 - 09.560 RECORD WE DID NOT WE INCLUDED

01:22 - 10.900 HERE BEFORE THIS COURT BECAUSE

01:22 - 11.990 THIS COURT HAS PRIMARY

01:22 - 13.500 JURISDICTION TO DO WITH ALL THE

01:22 - 14.380 OTHER PARTIES LEAD TO

01:22 - 15.790 SUPPLEMENT THE RECORD CHANGER

01:22 - 17.410 MINUTES. THE POINT OF THE

01:22 - 19.860 AFFAIR. IF IF THIS IF THIS

01:22 - 20.660 COURT THINGS THAT WOULD BE

01:22 - 22.600 FAIR. YES, THIS

01:22 - 24.630 THIS POINT CAN I JUST

01:22 - 25.950 EXPLAIN WHY WE PUT THE COURT

01:22 - 27.190 THE MATTER AND WHEN ASKED IN

01:22 - 28.860 THAT REGARD YOU SERVE ALL THE

01:22 - 30.150 OTHER PARTIES WITH THE NEW MAP.

01:22 - 31.670 >>IT WAS IT WAS

01:22 - 34.770 I BELIEVE SO YEAH I THINK IT

01:22 - 37.030 WAS IT WAS READ. I'M SORRY.

01:22 - 39.090 IT WAS ATTACHED TO THE BRIEFEST

01:22 - 40.240 MY UNDERSTANDING WAS OBSERVED

01:22 - 41.800 ON ALL THE OTHER PARTIES WITH

01:22 - 44.050 WITH AND WE DID PROVIDE A LINK

01:22 - 46.080 IN THE BRIEF TO THE DATE OF THE

01:22 - 47.820 BLOCK FILES FOR THEM OUT,

01:22 - 48.880 AND THE POINT OF PUTTING

01:22 - 50.230 FORWARD THAT ADDITIONAL MAP WAS

01:22 - 51.330 NOT TO SAY YOU SHOULD CHOOSE

01:22 - 52.840 THIS MATT. THE POINT OF PUTTING

01:22 - 53.960 FOR THAT ADDITIONAL MAP

01:22 - 55.060 TOGETHER WITH THE DECLARATION

01:22 - 56.880 OF DOCTOR ROAD WAS TO EXPLAIN

01:22 - 59.040 THAT. YES DOCTOR OWN CAN MAKE A

01:22 - 00.850 MAP THAT IT HAS ONLY ONE PERSON

01:23 - 03.000 DEVIATION TO DO SO

01:23 - 04.240 IT COMES AT THE COST OF

01:23 - 06.380 INTRODUCING AN ADDITIONAL SPLIT

01:23 - 08.240 IN A VOTING TABULATION DISTRICT

01:23 - 09.340 AND THIS COURT.

01:23 - 15.530 AND I'M SORRY DEPENDS ON IT

01:23 - 16.910 DEPENDS ON WHICH METRIC YOUR

01:23 - 18.370 COUNTY BY WHEN YOU SAY TALL ARE

01:23 - 20.010 YOU INCLUDING IN THERE VOTING

01:23 - 23.260 TABULATION SPLITS FOR OR NOT

01:23 - 23.840 OKAY.

01:23 - 26.030 >>IT

01:23 - 28.390 >>DID SO WITH THAT WE WERE FINE

01:23 - 29.570 WITH THE NUMBERS THAT DOCTOR

01:23 - 31.950 FORD INCLUDES IN OR I'M SORRY

01:23 - 33.040 THAT THE GROSSMAN PETITIONERS

01:23 - 34.300 INCLUDE FROM DOCTOR FORD WITH

01:23 - 35.340 WITH ONE EXCEPT.

01:23 - 45.720 WITH ONE EXCEPTION, YOUR HONOR

01:23 - 47.260 AND THAT IS THAT I BELIEVE

01:23 - 49.400 DOCTOR THE FORWARD COUNTED THE.

01:23 - 52.590 TINY PIECE OF CHESTER COUNTY AS

01:23 - 53.970 AN ADDITIONAL SPLIT FOR US.

01:23 - 56.440 SO WE DID NOT DO THAT

01:23 - 57.940 INITIALLY WEEK WE DID NOT COUNT

01:23 - 58.950 THAT FOLLOWING THE GUIDANCE OF

01:23 - 59.890 THIS COURT LEAGUE OF WOMEN

01:23 - 01.640 VOTERS WHICH SAID THAT PEACE OF

01:24 - 02.980 CHESTER COUNTY BETTER BELONGS

01:24 - 04.370 WITH. I BELIEVE IT WAS DELAWARE

01:24 - 06.530 IN IT INCLUDING ARE YOU ASKING

01:24 - 08.670 THAT WE AS WE DELIBERATE.

01:24 - 10.590 >>WE LOOK TO THE ORIGINAL MAP.

01:24 - 12.080 >>WELL TO THE.

01:24 - 14.110 >>MAP ATTACHED TO YOUR BRIEF

01:24 - 14.620 WE'RE LOOKING TO

01:24 - 17.480 >>WE'RE LOOKING WE STAND BY OUR

01:24 - 18.650 ORIGINAL MAP WE DON'T THINK

01:24 - 20.920 THAT THE 2 PERSON DEVIATION IS

01:24 - 22.070 THAT ALL VIOLATIVE OF ONE

01:24 - 23.640 PERSON ONE VOTE WE SUBMITTED

01:24 - 24.530 THE OTHER MAP

01:24 - 26.540 IF THIS COURT DISAGREES THEN

01:24 - 28.580 THEN THE OTHER MAP IS AVAILABLE

01:24 - 29.680 FOR THIS COURT'S CONSIDERATION

01:24 - 31.040 IS WHETHER OR NOT ANY CASES

01:24 - 32.510 THERE THAT SAYS TO FIRST

01:24 - 36.530 >>I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY AND

01:24 - 37.920 THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING PROPS

01:24 - 39.560 AND ARTICULATE TO TO SAY IN

01:24 - 40.890 RESPONSE TO JAMES BROWN JUST

01:24 - 42.420 TOO MUCH AND THE PROBLEM IS

01:24 - 43.810 WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE THE

01:24 - 44.370 PROBLEM IS WE'RE

01:24 - 45.290 ALWAYS ONLINE.

01:24 - 46.960 >>YEAH THERE WAS THE COMBAT WAS

01:24 - 48.060 THE CONCERN EXPRESSED BY THE

01:24 - 49.530 SUPREME COURT IN CARTER VERSUS

01:24 - 50.490 DAGGETT IS THERE WAS AN

01:24 - 51.750 ARGUMENT FOR A DIMINISHED TO

01:24 - 53.060 MINIMIZE DEVIATION.

01:24 - 54.680 >>AND THE UNITED STATES SUPREME

01:24 - 56.020 COURT JUSTICES SAID

01:24 - 57.360 WHAT'S THE MINIMUM THAT'S HOW

01:24 - 59.020 SLIPPERY A SLOPE THAT IS AND IF

01:24 - 00.380 WE SET A STANDARD THAT'S THE

01:25 - 01.850 MINIMUM SAYS OK THEN PEOPLE

01:25 - 03.100 WILL DRAW MAPS TO ADMIT, I'M A

01:25 - 04.660 STANDARD VERSUS TRYING TO GET

01:25 - 04.760 TO

01:25 - 07.000 THE POPULATION AND THAT

01:25 - 08.840 WAS RECOGNIZED IN THE FIRST 2,

01:25 - 10.040 BUT WE'RE WHICH IS A DISTRICT

01:25 - 12.040 COURT PANEL DECISION BACK IN

01:25 - 14.380 2001, I BELIEVE HERE IN THE

01:25 - 16.090 MIDDLE DISTRICT, SO ALTHOUGH

01:25 - 17.190 THERE'S NO ONE THAT SAYS A 2

01:25 - 20.280 PERSON SPLIT IS A VIOLATION.

01:25 - 21.560 THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT

01:25 - 22.500 HAS SAID THERE'S NO SUCH THING

01:25 - 23.780 AS A TREMENDOUS PLAY IN.

01:25 - 25.390 >>THE AND AGAIN I WOULD I WOULD

01:25 - 26.770 DIRECT THE SCORE BACK TO WHAT

01:25 - 28.580 THIS COURT SAID IN MELLOW ABOUT

01:25 - 31.140 ADDITIONAL VERY INSUBSTANTIAL

01:25 - 32.590 SPLITS CAN BE JUSTIFIED.

01:25 - 35.830 SPECIFICALLY TO DECREASE THE

01:25 - 37.550 NUMBER OF SPLITS IN PRECINCTS

01:25 - 38.460 AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE

01:25 - 40.230 AND THEY WERE UP 6 TO 3.

01:25 - 42.330 YEAH, IT WAS 50 TO 60 AND THAT

01:25 - 44.150 THE COURT ADOPTED THEM OUT OVER

01:25 - 45.360 A MAP THAT HAD

01:25 - 47.930 A 0 DEVIATION WHATSOEVER.

01:25 - 48.860 >>I CAN

01:25 - 53.000 POINT WITH REGARD TO THE YELLOW

01:25 - 55.310 CASE BUT GIVEN THE FACT THAT

01:25 - 57.620 LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS IS A

01:25 - 00.520 MORE RECENT AND SPECIFICALLY

01:26 - 02.520 SETS FORTH AS A CRITERIA

01:26 - 05.220 THAT YOU DO NOT SPLIT COUNTIES,

01:26 - 07.420 CITIES. FORD'S TOWNSHIPS.

01:26 - 12.250 >>YOUR MAT FRANKLY HAS ONE OF

01:26 - 14.440 THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF ALL THE

01:26 - 15.650 MAPS THAT WERE SUBMITTED BEFORE

01:26 - 16.550 THIS MORNING.

01:26 - 19.160 >>IT ACTUALLY HAS THE LOWEST

01:26 - 20.540 NUMBER OF COUNTY SPORTS.

01:26 - 21.600 AND YOU'VE HEARD TESTIMONY

01:26 - 22.360 ABOUT LIKE COUNTY

01:26 - 24.770 SPLITS ARE OR PERHAPS THE MOST

01:26 - 27.200 COUNTIES 31 COUNTY PIECES

01:26 - 28.970 20 MINUTES ALLERGIES AND

01:26 - 31.490 41 MUNICIPALITY PIECES.

01:26 - 33.420 >>SO IT JUST JUST WITH THE ONE

01:26 - 34.640 CLARIFICATION I MENTIONED THE

01:26 - 36.520 JUSTICE TAUGHT DEPENDING ON HOW

01:26 - 38.250 YOU COUNT THAT THIS CONTIGUOUS

01:26 - 39.720 TINY PIECE OF CHESTER COUNTY

01:26 - 40.930 ONE. IT'S

01:26 - 43.220 IT ICE. IT'S EITHER TIED FOR

01:26 - 44.680 SECOND SECOND LOWEST ON THE

01:26 - 46.440 COUNTY'S, WHAT DOES GOD HAS THE

01:26 - 46.780 FINAL

01:26 - 48.800 BUT THE ARGUMENT ACID IN

01:26 - 51.680 ANYTHING NEED TO SEE PEAKS

01:27 - 01.990 >>SO INCUMBENT INCUMBENT SEE

01:27 - 03.540 PAIRING IS ONE OF THESE

01:27 - 05.570 OTHER ONES THAT WAS MENTIONED

01:27 - 07.100 IN THE GLOVE ON WOMEN, VOTERS

01:27 - 09.130 MENTIONED IN MELLOW AS ONE OF

01:27 - 10.500 THESE HISTORICAL CRITERIA.

01:27 - 12.030 SO IT IS SOMETHING THIS COURT

01:27 - 14.140 CAN CONSIDER AND AND PERHAPS

01:27 - 15.550 OUGHT TO CONSIDER AND I WOULD.

01:27 - 29.240 I THINK THIS IS JUST A SWEAT

01:27 - 31.570 MAY BE POINTED IN QUESTIONING

01:27 - 33.020 OF MISTER HAVE RESPECTED THE

01:27 - 35.050 REST OF OUR PLANS HAVE HAVE GO

01:27 - 36.960 BEYOND THAT BUT I WOULD URGE

01:27 - 39.030 THIS COURT TO KNOW TO LOOK NOT

01:27 - 41.200 JUST AT THE BEAR NUMBERS WHEN

01:27 - 42.740 IT COMES TO PROTECTION. BUT

01:27 - 44.180 THIS IS ALSO WHERE LEAST CHANGE

01:27 - 45.420 COMES INTO PLAY BECAUSE.

01:27 - 47.990 YOU MAY HAVE AN INCUMBENT

01:27 - 50.060 WHO TECHNICALLY. ITS TOP PAIRED

01:27 - 51.260 WITH A NUMBER ANOTHER

01:27 - 52.120 INCUMBENT, BUT

01:27 - 54.250 WHOSE DISTRICT IS NO LONGER THE

01:27 - 55.220 DISTRICT THAT HERE'S HERE

01:27 - 56.590 EVERYTHING TO BEFORE OR IS JUST

01:27 - 58.190 A MERE SHELL OF IT. SO I THINK

01:27 - 00.210 INCUMBENCY PROTECTION. IT'S

01:28 - 01.170 SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED

01:28 - 03.340 AT TOGETHER WITH LEASE CHANGE.

01:28 - 11.630 >>ABOVE ALL THIS IS NOT ABOUT

01:28 - 13.280 PERSONALITIES RIGHT AS ANYONE

01:28 - 18.420 ASIAN LAST TIME IT IS AND

01:28 - 20.670 THAT'S HERE IS THIS QUASI STATE

01:28 - 22.030 OF THE BIGGEST POPULATION

01:28 - 23.970 WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST

01:28 - 26.480 ONES WERE UP WHERE THAT HAPPENS

01:28 - 28.070 TO HER THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT AND

01:28 - 30.010 THOSE DISTRICTS HAD TO EXPAND.

01:28 - 31.800 >>AND SO IT'S REALLY YOU HAVE

01:28 - 33.550 TO GET SOME COMMENTS AGAINST

01:28 - 34.600 EACH OTHER. AND

01:28 - 36.340 IT'S IN THOSE AREAS OF THE

01:28 - 37.510 STATE WHERE THE DISTRICTS ARE

01:28 - 39.440 EXPANDING MUCH MORE THAN IN

01:28 - 41.030 OTHER AREAS WHERE IT'S JUST

01:28 - 42.370 MAKES THE MOST SENSE OF

01:28 - 42.940 INCUMBENTS WILL

01:28 - 43.530 GET PAIRED.

01:28 - 45.900 >>SO I'VE BEEN BACK DOWN INTO

01:28 - 48.480 THE WEEDS SIDE BEING THE MAP

01:28 - 49.540 THAT THE PLAN THAT YOU

01:28 - 50.950 SUBMITTED ITS WITH

01:28 - 51.750 WILLIAMSPORT.

01:28 - 55.080 IS THERE REASON WHY THAT HAD TO

01:28 - 55.740 OCCUR.

01:28 - 56.980 >>I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A

01:28 - 58.500 SPECIFIC REASON WHY WILLIAMS

01:28 - 01.320 FOR DISPLAY THROUGH THE ASIDE

01:29 - 02.400 FROM THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH

01:29 - 03.680 ISSUES THAT WE GET IT IT'S THE

01:29 - 05.700 ONLY MATH THAT OTHER WEISS WITH

01:29 - 07.590 ANOTHER NOT CITY

01:29 - 09.240 WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT I

01:29 - 10.620 THINK IS EVERYBODY ACKNOWLEDGES

01:29 - 12.900 THERE ARE TRADEOFFS WE WE KEPT.

01:29 - 14.930 >>THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH COLE

01:29 - 16.750 WE REUNITED HARRISBURG WITH ITS

01:29 - 18.300 SUBURBS WE KEPT NORTHEAST,

01:29 - 19.870 PENNSYLVANIA, WHOLE WE KEPT

01:29 - 21.040 BUCKS COUNTY FULL.

01:29 - 22.300 SO IT HAD TO

01:29 - 27.110 >>WE HAD THIS BUT EVERYBODY HAS

01:29 - 28.500 THIS PUT PHILADELPHIA. YES, SO

01:29 - 29.760 IT'S SOMETHING IT'S A

01:29 - 30.890 TRADE UP, BUT I THINK IF YOU'RE

01:29 - 31.780 LOOKING AT THE KIND OF THE

01:29 - 33.130 COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST.

01:29 - 35.060 YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT AMONG

01:29 - 36.950 OTHER PLACES AT THE 3 SUBMITTED

01:29 - 39.110 BY THE ALLEY INTERVENE ERS WHO

01:29 - 39.460 KIND OF

01:29 - 41.270 THEY HAVE A CHART ABOUT WHAT

01:29 - 42.320 THEY VIEW BASED

01:29 - 45.360 ON TESTIMONY AT VARIOUS AND

01:29 - 46.820 VARIOUS PUBLIC STATEMENTS WHAT

01:29 - 47.420 THEY VIEW AS THE

01:29 - 49.260 MOST IMPORTANT COMMUNITIES TO

01:29 - 51.140 KEEP CARTER PLAN IS THE ONLY

01:29 - 52.670 ONE THAT KEEPS THOSE FOR ALL.

01:29 - 55.550 >>I WOULD JUST A COMMENT ON THE

01:29 - 57.240 AMOC IS BRIEF THAT WE RECEIVED

01:29 - 00.170 FROM OF WILLIAMSPORT AREA

01:30 - 03.960 DISFAVORED

01:30 - 06.070 YOUR MAP BECAUSE IT DIDN'T

01:30 - 07.500 CONSIDER THE COMMUNITY OF

01:30 - 08.820 INTEREST IN THE TIE OF THE

01:30 - 11.230 COMMUNITY. REGULARLY AND

01:30 - 12.710 FREQUENTLY COMBINES THEIR

01:30 - 14.990 EMPLOYMENT AND THEIR SERVICES

01:30 - 16.480 MEDICAL CARE AND WHATNOT

01:30 - 18.070 IN 2 WHY

01:30 - 21.760 >>SORRY DIDN'T HEAR THE LAST

01:30 - 23.180 PART OF YOUR QUESTION THAT.

01:30 - 25.620 >>THE COMMUNITY OF INTEREST.

01:30 - 30.160 >>NOT OBSERVED.

01:30 - 32.250 FOR THAT AREA

01:30 - 33.960 IN THAT THE COMMUNITY OF

01:30 - 36.600 KIOWA COUNTY. FREQUENTLY GOES

01:30 - 38.190 TO LYCOMING COUNTY THE

01:30 - 40.010 WILLIAMSPORT AREA. WE'RE

01:30 - 42.020 GROCERIES FOR EMPLOYMENT.

01:30 - 45.780 >>AND SO THERE

01:30 - 48.350 WAS SOME THIS CONCERTED PEOPLE

01:30 - 49.050 IN THAT AND

01:30 - 52.870 >>WHEN YOU'VE NEVER BEEN TO A

01:30 - 53.950 SPORT IS THE HOME OF THE

01:30 - 55.790 BASEBALL MIND WHEN YOU KNOW I

01:30 - 57.440 CAN IT'S ON MY BUCKET LIST.

01:30 - 00.500 >>I I GUESS IT JUST AS MONEY MY

01:31 - 01.770 RESPONSE WOULD BE SIMILAR TO MY

01:31 - 02.940 RESPONSE IS JUSTICE DONE TO

01:31 - 05.770 YOU. IT'S I DON'T THINK ANY

01:31 - 06.240 MAP.

01:31 - 08.950 ANY MAPMAKERS GOING TO BE ABLE

01:31 - 10.190 TO DRAW A MAP

01:31 - 13.030 WITH THAT EVERYBODY AGREES

01:31 - 14.320 KEEPS EVERY COMMUNITY OF

01:31 - 15.890 INTEREST TOGETHER.

01:31 - 17.440 AND YOU'RE GOING TO FIND

01:31 - 18.510 DISSENSION AND I WOULD JUST

01:31 - 19.280 SUBMIT THAT.

01:31 - 22.500 THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS DEVELOPED

01:31 - 24.750 BEFORE THE THE SPECIAL MASTER

01:31 - 26.390 BASED ON WHAT ELSE WE'VE SEEN.

01:31 - 26.740 THE

01:31 - 28.680 CARTER MATT DOES A VERY GOOD

01:31 - 30.900 JOB OF KEEPING MANY COMMUNITIES

01:31 - 31.810 OF INTEREST TOGETHER AND IN

01:31 - 33.830 FACT REUNITE SOME THERE WERE

01:31 - 35.650 SPLIT BY THIS COURT IN 2018.

01:31 - 37.760 >>THANK YOU VERY MUCH NICE JOB

01:31 - 38.520 WITH IT, THANK YOU.

01:31 - 46.090 THE ACTING SECRETARY OF THE

01:31 - 46.830 COMMONWEALTH.

01:31 - 50.530 MS. CHAPMAN AND THE DIRECTOR

01:31 - 51.660 OF THE PENNSYLVANIA BORDER,

01:31 - 53.330 EURO OF ELECTIONS.

01:32 - 02.410 >>DOING

01:32 - 03.610 ONE ARGUMENT.

01:32 - 06.410 >>THE THE THE AND THAT WE

01:32 - 08.180 APPRECIATE YOU REALLY DO YOUR

01:32 - 10.270 BRIEF BEEN THE IS SAY THAT

01:32 - 10.980 THE ACTIVE.

01:32 - 14.300 >>SECRETARY AND ELECTION AFTER

01:32 - 15.330 POLL THE MAPS

01:32 - 17.700 ON THE OTHER HAND IT'S NOT

01:32 - 18.800 QUITE THE.

01:32 - 21.090 >>WE'RE ASKED THAT CHOOSING A

01:32 - 23.470 MAP IS WE WE GOT CALENDARS AND

01:32 - 25.480 WE UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A MAY 17

01:32 - 26.750 PRIMARY AND WE KNOW WHAT WE

01:32 - 27.830 HAVE TO DO.

01:32 - 30.500 >>THANK NIGHT THAT THAT SOUNDS

01:32 - 31.560 LIKE A FINE APPROACH FROM MY

01:32 - 33.740 PERSPECTIVE SO I WILL SPEAK ON

01:32 - 34.970 BEHALF OF THE DEPARTMENT

01:32 - 36.630 OF STATE. THE RESPONDENTS ON

01:32 - 37.920 THE CALENDAR AND THEN WHEN THE

01:32 - 39.270 COURT IS SATISFIED

01:32 - 39.710 WITH THAT

01:32 - 42.630 AS YOU COME DOWN SO AS WE KNOW

01:32 - 43.790 THAT ARE UP TO LAKE. THANK YOU

01:32 - 46.030 YOUR ROBERT WEICHEL ON BEHALF

01:32 - 47.410 OF THE RESPONDENTS.

01:32 - 49.000 ACTING SECRETARY OF THE

01:32 - 50.380 COMMONWEALTH, THE CHAPMAN

01:32 - 51.510 DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF

01:32 - 53.030 ELECTION SERVICES AND NOTARY

01:32 - 54.850 JESSICA NOT THIS AND ALSO

01:32 - 56.150 INTERVENE OR RESPOND AND

01:32 - 57.810 GOVERNOR WOLF MY CO-COUNSEL

01:32 - 59.780 JOHN HILL IS HERE WITH ME TODAY

01:32 - 01.020 AND IF I MAY I'D ALSO LIKE TO

01:33 - 02.660 ACKNOWLEDGE MY PARTNER LAW

01:33 - 04.110 PARTNER KERRY. RICE HE'S NOT

01:33 - 05.140 ABLE TO BE HERE BUT WORKED

01:33 - 06.410 EXTENSIVELY ON THE BRIEFS IN

01:33 - 07.140 THIS MATTER.

01:33 - 09.600 RESPONDENTS

01:33 - 11.660 ARE AS AS THE CHIEF JUSTICE TO

01:33 - 12.750 POINT OUT IN A BIT OF A

01:33 - 13.940 DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN THE

01:33 - 15.800 OTHER PARTIES IN THIS CASE THEY

01:33 - 17.220 HAVE NOT PROPOSED TO MAP THE

01:33 - 18.690 GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED MAP FOR

01:33 - 18.790 THE

01:33 - 20.950 EXECUTIVE BRANCH. SO RESPOND

01:33 - 22.890 AND SEE THEIR ROLE HERE LAST AS

01:33 - 24.110 ADVOCATES FOR PARTICULAR

01:33 - 27.280 OUTCOME. THEN AND

01:33 - 28.880 ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCY THAT IS

01:33 - 30.560 TASKED WITH ENSURING THAT

01:33 - 32.290 ELECTIONS IN THE COMMONWEALTH

01:33 - 33.060 ARE RUN

01:33 - 35.920 FAIRLY LAWFULLY AND ORDERLY AND

01:33 - 37.910 AND TO HELP THE COURT WITH THE

01:33 - 39.830 TASK OF DEVISING AN ELECTION

01:33 - 42.040 CALENDAR THAT NOW I THINK WE

01:33 - 43.960 CAN ALL ADMIT NEEDS TO BE

01:33 - 46.670 ALTERED BECAUSE OF THE DELAYS

01:33 - 48.020 IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS

01:33 - 49.750 BOTH ON THE CONGRESSIONAL SIDE

01:33 - 51.650 AND ON THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

01:33 - 54.450 SIDE SO WE HAVE UNDERTAKEN THE

01:33 - 55.570 DEPARTMENT'S UNDERTAKEN.

01:33 - 58.110 TO COME UP WITH THE SCHEDULE

01:33 - 01.280 THAT WE BELIEVE IS FEASIBLE AND

01:34 - 03.860 WILL ALLOW. ALL OF

01:34 - 05.480 PENNSYLVANIA'S PRIMARY ELECTION

01:34 - 06.400 SO JUST TO PUT THE MEAT

01:34 - 07.630 CATEGORIES WE HAVE THE

01:34 - 09.640 STATEWIDE OFFICES, NO DISTRICT

01:34 - 09.960 ISSUES

01:34 - 11.970 THERE THANKFULLY. BUT WE DO

01:34 - 13.550 NEED TO HAVE THOSE PRIMARIES.

01:34 - 15.450 WE HAVE THE CONGRESSIONAL

01:34 - 16.770 ELECTIONS OBVIOUSLY THAT WE'RE

01:34 - 17.620 ALL THE DRESSING

01:34 - 19.830 HERE TODAY AND THEN WE HAVE THE

01:34 - 21.630 STATE LEGISLATIVE ELECTIONS OF

01:34 - 23.220 COURSE THAT CALENDAR IS MORE

01:34 - 24.990 DELAYED. AND THIS ONE BECAUSE

01:34 - 25.990 OF THE LEGISLATIVE

01:34 - 27.080 REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION

01:34 - 28.790 PROCESS AND THE CONSTITUTIONAL

01:34 - 29.610 TIMELINE

01:34 - 31.620 FOR THAT. BUT NONETHELESS WE

01:34 - 33.040 THINK WITH SOME MODIFICATIONS

01:34 - 33.170 THAT

01:34 - 35.340 WE PROPOSED WE CAN KEEP ALL OF

01:34 - 37.320 THE PRIMARIES ON MAY 17TH, AND

01:34 - 39.320 THAT'S THE DEPARTMENTS, STRONG

01:34 - 40.640 PREFERENCE FOR ME THE MINISTRY

01:34 - 42.110 OF STANDPOINT FOR

01:34 - 44.300 I THINK 2 PRIMARY REASONS WHICH

01:34 - 45.670 I'D LIKE TO ARTICULATE JUST

01:34 - 48.020 BRIEFLY. ONE IS IF WE WERE TO

01:34 - 49.910 DIVIDE THE PRIMARIES IN OTHER

01:34 - 51.020 WORDS IF WE WERE TO KEEP THE

01:34 - 52.390 CONGRESSIONAL AND STATEWIDE

01:34 - 53.940 PRIMARIES ON MAY 17TH.

01:34 - 56.430 BUT MOVIE STATE

01:34 - 58.360 LEGISLATIVE PRIMARY TO A LATER

01:34 - 00.150 THAT IMPOSES SOME VERY

01:35 - 02.140 SIGNIFICANT COST ONE, THERE'S

01:35 - 03.240 AN OBVIOUS RISK OF VOTER

01:35 - 04.910 CONFUSION OR AT THE LEAST

01:35 - 06.950 DEPRESSED TURNOUT RELATIVE TO

01:35 - 09.980 UNIFY PRIMARY TO FROM AND THIS

01:35 - 11.640 IS PARTICULARLY A CUE FROM THE

01:35 - 13.550 STANDPOINT OF THE COUNTIES

01:35 - 14.920 WHO ACTUALLY DIRECTLY MINISTER

01:35 - 15.770 THE ELECTIONS.

01:35 - 17.530 IT'S GOING TO MAKE RECRUITING

01:35 - 19.390 POLL WORKERS A CHALLENGE RIGHT

01:35 - 20.950 IF THEY HAVE TO PULL WORKERS ON

01:35 - 22.730 MAY 17TH AND THEN AT SOME POINT

01:35 - 25.220 NOT TOO DISTANT FROM THAT FOR A

01:35 - 27.310 SECOND ELECTION AND 3RD,

01:35 - 28.960 OBVIOUSLY THE MONETARY COSTS

01:35 - 30.150 IT'S GOING TO COST THE

01:35 - 31.560 TAXPAYERS OF PENNSYLVANIA.

01:35 - 32.640 YOU KNOW I THINK OUR

01:35 - 33.780 CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE IS AT

01:35 - 34.930 LEAST 10'S OF MILLIONS OF

01:35 - 36.770 ADDITIONAL DOLLARS IF WE HAVE

01:35 - 38.690 DIVIDED PRIMARY YEARS NOW I

01:35 - 40.090 THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME

01:35 - 41.650 SUGGESTION AT LEAST AMONG SOME

01:35 - 42.540 OF THE AMAECHI WHO HAVE

01:35 - 44.290 SUBMITTED BRIEFS THAT PERHAPS

01:35 - 46.160 WE SHOULD JUST MOVE ALL

01:35 - 47.360 OF THE PRIMARIES KEEPING

01:35 - 48.840 UNIFIED BUT MOVE THEM TO A

01:35 - 50.970 LATER DATE AFTER MAY 17TH.

01:35 - 53.130 WE DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARY

01:35 - 54.800 FOR HER STARTING POINT BUT WE

01:35 - 56.950 ALSO THINK THAT RUN SOME RISK

01:35 - 58.390 AS WELL IN PARTICULAR AS THE

01:35 - 58.950 COURT IS NO

01:35 - 00.840 DOUBT AWARE. THERE HAVE BEEN A

01:36 - 02.040 NUMBER OF LAWSUITS THAT HAVE

01:36 - 03.940 BEEN FILED ALREADY RAISING

01:36 - 05.940 POTENTIAL ELECTIONS CLAUSE

01:36 - 08.750 ISSUES. THAT ACCORDING TO THE

01:36 - 08.890 TO

01:36 - 11.780 THE LITIGANTS IF

01:36 - 14.020 THE COURTS ISSUES ORDERS WITH

01:36 - 15.540 RESPECT TO FEDERAL ELECTIONS.

01:36 - 16.870 SO THE CONGRESSIONAL ELECTIONS,

01:36 - 17.850 THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THE

01:36 - 19.080 ELECTIONS CLAUSE DOESN'T HAVE

01:36 - 20.370 ANY BEARING ON THE STATE

01:36 - 23.440 LEGISLATIVE WE WE THINK THAT

01:36 - 24.860 THE MERITS OF THE LAWSUIT ERS

01:36 - 27.080 ARE VERY MUCH DEBATABLE BUT WE

01:36 - 28.220 DO THINK THAT IT WOULD BE

01:36 - 29.410 BETTER TO AVOID GIVING

01:36 - 30.540 AMMUNITION TO THEM

01:36 - 32.490 BY MOVING THE CONGRESSIONAL

01:36 - 33.230 PRIMARY DATE

01:36 - 34.800 PARTICULARLY WHERE IT'S A

01:36 - 36.020 NECESSARY I THINK PEOPLE WERE

01:36 - 37.990 NECESSARY THEN WE HAVE A

01:36 - 39.020 DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

01:36 - 43.950 SO LET THE COURT HAS OUR

01:36 - 45.620 SUBMISSION AND I WON'T I WANT

01:36 - 46.440 TO TAKE YOU THROUGH ALL THE

01:36 - 48.060 DETAILS. BUT LET ME JUST SKETCH

01:36 - 48.500 OUT HOW

01:36 - 50.820 WE ENVISION. THIS MAY 17

01:36 - 52.360 PRIMARY DATE WOULD WORK UNDER

01:36 - 53.610 THE MODIFIED CALENDAR

01:36 - 54.780 THAT WE PROPOSE

01:36 - 56.280 SO FIRST THE CONGRESSIONAL AND

01:36 - 57.630 STATEWIDE ELECTIONS BECAUSE WE

01:36 - 59.490 PROPOSE 2 DIFFERENT CALENDAR,

01:36 - 01.350 ONE FOR STATEWIDE CONGRESSIONAL

01:37 - 02.450 WHICH DOESN'T HAVE TO BE QUITE

01:37 - 03.990 AS COMPRESSED BECAUSE OF THE

01:37 - 05.480 TIMELINE FOR REDISTRICTING

01:37 - 07.090 AND THE OTHER FOR THE STATE

01:37 - 08.360 LEGISLATIVE CALENDAR WHICH DOES

01:37 - 09.610 HAVE TO BE SOMEWHAT COMMON

01:37 - 10.960 AIDING IN THE SAME ALL

01:37 - 12.330 CULMINATING ON MAY 17. SO THE

01:37 - 13.750 PRELIMINARY DEADLINES ARE

01:37 - 14.720 DIFFERENT FOR THOSE 2

01:37 - 16.640 CALENDARS, BUT THEY BOTH GET

01:37 - 18.660 THEY BOTH GET US TO A CALMING

01:37 - 22.040 UNIFIED MAY 17 PRIMARY DATE SO

01:37 - 23.430 AS TO THE CONGRESSIONAL

01:37 - 26.670 WE WOULD PROPOSE A 2 WEEK

01:37 - 28.710 NOMINATION PETITION CIRCULATION

01:37 - 31.010 PERIOD. INSTEAD OF THE USUAL

01:37 - 33.670 3 WEEKS. AND THEN 9 WEEKS FROM

01:37 - 35.260 THE CLOSE OF THAT CIRCULATION

01:37 - 37.150 PERIOD UNTIL THE ELECTION DAY

01:37 - 39.120 ITSELF AS OPPOSED TO THE

01:37 - 41.600 TYPICAL 10 WEEKS AGO WOULD THAT

01:37 - 43.070 I THINK YOU'RE TOO IT'S HERE

01:37 - 45.410 WHAT.

01:37 - 45.890 >>WHAT

01:37 - 49.160 I NOTED IN IN LOOKING AT

01:37 - 51.090 YOUR PHOTOS WAS THE TO

01:37 - 54.700 CIRCULATE NOMINATION FOR THE.

01:37 - 57.220 >>CONGRESSIONAL RACES, HE

01:37 - 58.690 PROPOSES MARCH

01:38 - 03.840 SORRY WAS MARCH FIRST YOUR

01:38 - 04.900 HONOR IF I IF I IF I'M

01:38 - 06.010 UNDERSTANDING THE FIRST STATE

01:38 - 07.400 TO CIRCULATE AND FILE.

01:38 - 09.330 >>NOMINATION PETITIONS UNDER

01:38 - 11.350 THAT UNDER THE STATUTORY

01:38 - 11.850 COUNTERS

01:38 - 14.220 FEBRUARY 15. BOB SAYS THAT DAY

01:38 - 15.390 HAS COME AND GONE, WE'RE

01:38 - 16.790 PROPOSING MARCH 1ST

01:38 - 18.250 2022.

01:38 - 19.000 >>WOULD IT HURT TO

01:38 - 20.170 ME IMMEDIATELY.

01:38 - 25.690 >>SEE IT HOW DOES IT VERY TO

01:38 - 27.050 SUE ME FOR SECOND THAT WE

01:38 - 28.000 CHOOSE THE MAP

01:38 - 32.290 WE MAY BE ABLE TO ENTER AN

01:38 - 34.260 ORDER SETTING FOR YOU

01:38 - 36.920 COMPREHENSIVE SCHEDULE WE MAY

01:38 - 37.260 BE ABLE

01:38 - 41.160 TO NEXT WEDNESDAY OR

01:38 - 43.020 THURSDAY FRIDAY AND YOUR HONOR

01:38 - 44.110 I THINK THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL

01:38 - 45.600 FOR MY CLIENT'S PERSPECTIVE I

01:38 - 47.510 THINK THE MORE TIME THE LESS WE

01:38 - 48.830 HAVE TO COMPRESS THE BETTER.

01:38 - 52.090 WE WERE OBVIOUSLY THAT WE'RE

01:38 - 53.240 TRYING TO BE SOLICIT IS OF THE

01:38 - 54.120 FACT THAT THE COURT

01:38 - 55.840 MAY WANT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF

01:38 - 57.450 TIME TO DELIBERATE MAKE ITS

01:38 - 58.750 DECISION BY THE PRESSURE YOU

01:38 - 59.060 KNOW FOR

01:38 - 59.490 THE NIGHT.

01:38 - 01.480 >>WITH WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO

01:39 - 03.790 IS ORDER IN THE FALL THOUGH WE

01:39 - 04.310 HAVE TO DO

01:39 - 10.250 THAT FEEL FREE TO GO

01:39 - 12.130 AHEAD I HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF

01:39 - 16.170 WORK A WE THINK I CAN SPEAK

01:39 - 19.690 ONLY FOR MYSELF BUT WE THING

01:39 - 25.230 >>WE'RE HERE WE'LL BE ABLE TO

01:39 - 26.880 MEET THEM AND WERE ABLE TO MAKE

01:39 - 28.070 BIG WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TIME TO

01:39 - 30.680 REVIVE TO GET SIGNATURES ENOUGH

01:39 - 32.700 TIME FOR JAX'S THE SIGNATURES

01:39 - 37.270 IN ELECTION I

01:39 - 41.890 PROBABLY MOST TO HEAR MY NAME

01:39 - 44.540 IS WITH THE DROUGHT. THE 2 DAYS

01:39 - 47.110 WE HAVE ALL OF THESE BE USED TO

01:39 - 48.260 SAY THAT YOU SEND OUT THE

01:39 - 49.260 MILITARY AND OVERSEAS

01:39 - 54.310 BALLOTS THE BALLOTS AND SO I

01:39 - 55.950 THINK THERE ARE 2 KEY DATES

01:39 - 56.680 THERE YOUR HONOR AS I

01:39 - 57.980 UNDERSTAND IT ONE IS THE DATE

01:39 - 00.210 WHERE WE HAVE THE MAP IN PLACE

01:40 - 01.410 FOR THE COURT ISSUED THE ORDER

01:40 - 03.700 BOTH HERE AND ON THE LRC SITE.

01:40 - 05.070 >>AND WE HAVE

01:40 - 06.670 I GET THE COURT MAY BE ABLE TO

01:40 - 07.800 DO IT EARLIER THAT WOULD BE

01:40 - 08.370 TERRIFIC FROM

01:40 - 10.370 OUR STANDPOINT WE PROPOSE THAT

01:40 - 12.090 IF IF WE WERE GOING TO BE ABLE

01:40 - 13.870 TO START THE CIRCULATION PERIOD

01:40 - 15.410 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND STATEWIDE

01:40 - 16.750 ON MARCH 1ST AS

01:40 - 19.200 WE PROPOSE, THEN WE BELIEVE WE

01:40 - 20.590 WOULD NEED THE FINAL MAP IN

01:40 - 23.320 FROM THIS COURT BY FEBRUARY 27.

01:40 - 24.180 AND.

01:40 - 28.630 THE ISSUE WITH THE LEAD TIME IS

01:40 - 29.280 THE FOLLOWING

01:40 - 32.260 BEFORE WITH THE

01:40 - 34.850 ADVENT OF DATABASES AND

01:40 - 36.470 COMPUTERS, THIS IS ALL IN AN

01:40 - 38.050 ALLY PROCESS ESSENTIALLY.

01:40 - 41.760 AND WE ARE PROPOSING IN ORDER

01:40 - 43.010 TO ACCOMMODATE THE SCHEDULE

01:40 - 44.380 THAT WE COULD USE THAT AGAIN

01:40 - 45.490 AND THAT'S THE THAT'S THE

01:40 - 47.470 REFERENCE TO GENERIC PETITIONS

01:40 - 49.830 SO INSTEAD OF TAKING THE TIME

01:40 - 51.060 THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO

01:40 - 52.890 ESSENTIALLY PROGRAM THE MAP

01:40 - 54.670 INTO WHAT WE CALL THE SURE

01:40 - 55.120 SYSTEM

01:40 - 57.460 THE DATABASE. WE WOULD SIMPLY

01:40 - 59.360 USE GENERIC PETITIONS AS WE DID

01:40 - 02.410 BEFORE 2011. THE DIFFERENCE IS

01:41 - 04.140 IT'S A LITTLE LESS HAND-HOLDING

01:41 - 05.640 FOR THE CANDIDATES IF IF WE

01:41 - 07.060 HAVE THE SURE SYSTEM DANA

01:41 - 09.220 PROGRAM, CANDIDATES CAN SAY

01:41 - 10.440 HERE'S WHERE I WANT TO RUN

01:41 - 12.150 AND IT WILL PRINT OUT THE

01:41 - 13.430 PETITIONS AND WE'LL TELL THEM

01:41 - 14.860 WHAT THE DISTRICT NUMBER IS AND

01:41 - 16.130 WE'LL TELL THEM WHAT COUNTIES

01:41 - 17.650 THEY NEED TO GET SIGNATURES AND

01:41 - 19.110 THEY NEED TO FIGURE THAT OUT

01:41 - 20.390 FOR THEMSELVES OUT UNDER

01:41 - 22.380 THE GENERIC PRAYER AND AS THE

01:41 - 24.260 NE 7 THIS DRIVER, A 27 ON THE

01:41 - 26.990 CONGRESSIONAL SIDE. NOW ON THE

01:41 - 28.810 STATE LEGISLATIVE SIDE.

01:41 - 32.720 WE WE WE HAVE SAID THAT IF THE

01:41 - 34.560 COURT IS ABLE TO ISSUE.

01:41 - 37.400 >>AND A DECISION ON RESOLVE THE

01:41 - 39.050 APPEALS FROM THE LRC THESE

01:41 - 41.900 FINAL PLAN BY MARCH 18.

01:41 - 43.970 THEN WE COULD START THE

01:41 - 45.040 NOMINATION PETITIONS

01:41 - 46.950 CIRCULATION PERIOD BY MARCH

01:41 - 49.270 20TH WHICH IN THE COURT BUT

01:41 - 50.610 THAT PROPOSED CALENDAR

01:41 - 52.450 THAT WE'VE LAID OUT AND I NOTED

01:41 - 53.720 YESTERDAY THAT THE COURT DID

01:41 - 54.030 ISSUE

01:41 - 56.150 AN ORDER REGARDING BRIEFING IN

01:41 - 57.620 THOSE APPEALS SO THAT AS I

01:41 - 59.410 UNDERSTAND IT. THE INITIAL THE

01:41 - 00.670 APPELLANTS BRIEFS ARE GOING TO

01:42 - 02.230 BE DUE BY MARCH 7TH AND

01:42 - 04.470 RESPONSES BY MARCH 11TH AND I

01:42 - 05.990 THINK THAT THAT WILL GO A LONG

01:42 - 07.910 WAY HOPEFULLY TO ALLOWING THE

01:42 - 09.700 COURT TO RESOLVE THOSE APPEALS.

01:42 - 11.710 I'M IN A VERY EXPEDITIOUS

01:42 - 13.620 A MATTER YOU KNOW MISTER WEIGEL

01:42 - 15.880 THIS IS NOT A TASK THAT WE ASK

01:42 - 16.280 FOR.

01:42 - 19.060 >>WELL RIGHT WE GET IT BECAUSE

01:42 - 20.970 THE LEGISLATURE AND THE

01:42 - 22.140 GOVERNOR CANNOT AGREE.

01:42 - 24.860 INDEED YOU'RE ON I AND I FULLY

01:42 - 25.710 APPRECIATE THAT IN THE

01:42 - 27.030 DEPARTMENT OF STATE APPRECIATES

01:42 - 27.670 THAT AND WE.

01:42 - 29.070 >>WE REALIZE THAT JUST AS THE

01:42 - 32.940 COURT IS NOT A MAP JUST ACRES

01:42 - 34.070 THAT THEY'RE MOST OF THEM AT

01:42 - 35.480 LEAST I ASSUME ARE NOT ELECTION

01:42 - 37.290 ADMINISTRATORS AND THAT THAT

01:42 - 38.860 HAS ITS OWN SET OF CHALLENGES

01:42 - 39.930 AND THAT'S WHY AGAIN THE

01:42 - 40.700 DEPARTMENT OF STATE

01:42 - 42.070 OF COURSE, WE'LL DO EVERYTHING

01:42 - 43.820 WE CAN TO IMPLEMENTING COMPLY

01:42 - 44.820 WITH WHATEVER SCHEDULE THE

01:42 - 46.280 COURT SETS FOR THE MISTER

01:42 - 47.930 WEIGEL TO UNDERSTAND JUST TO

01:42 - 49.350 GET GET CONCRETE HERE.

01:42 - 51.040 >>THE DEPARTMENT THINKS THERE

01:42 - 53.390 SHOULD BE 2 TO 3 DAYS BETWEEN

01:42 - 54.030 THE MAP.

01:42 - 55.840 >>IN THE BEGINNING OF SIGNATURE

01:42 - 57.390 COLLECTION. SO PEOPLE CAN

01:42 - 58.100 BE ORGANIZED.

01:42 - 00.950 >>AND IN THE CONGRESSIONAL

01:43 - 02.790 SIDE, THE DEPARTMENT WOULD LIKE

01:43 - 05.450 THE MAP ON FEBRUARY 27 AND ON

01:43 - 07.050 THE STATE LEGISLATIVE SIDE.

01:43 - 08.070 THE THE.

01:43 - 09.880 >>DEPARTMENT WOULD LIKE THE MAP

01:43 - 11.620 BY WHAT THE MARCH 18TH YOUR

01:43 - 11.900 HONOR.

01:43 - 13.750 >>OR BEFORE OR BEFORE. YES THAT

01:43 - 13.980 IS

01:43 - 16.490 THAT IS THE THE THE LAST 8 BY

01:43 - 18.210 WHICH WE THINK WE COULD HEAR TO

01:43 - 18.440 THAT

01:43 - 20.260 PROPOSED CALENDAR, WE SAID

01:43 - 22.160 BEFORE WE ACTUALLY WE HAD 10.

01:43 - 24.200 WE DO OUR BEST AND.

01:43 - 26.590 >>7 WE HAVE DIFFICULT ISSUES

01:43 - 29.980 BUT TO TO TO EXCEED THOSE

01:43 - 32.170 MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS.

01:43 - 34.130 >>WELL MY MY CLIENT GREAT

01:43 - 35.580 APPRECIATION, IRAN OF COURSE

01:43 - 36.640 THAT THE COURT CONCLUDES FOR

01:43 - 38.290 WHATEVER REASON THAT WHAT WE

01:43 - 39.810 PROPOSE IS UNFEASIBLE ALTHOUGH

01:43 - 41.010 I GET THE SENSE THAT THAT MAY

01:43 - 42.100 NOT BE WHERE THE COURT COMES

01:43 - 45.300 WE'LL BE HAPPY TO ALSO THEN

01:43 - 47.750 ADDRESS I THAT ALTERNATIVE

01:43 - 50.270 SCENARIO IF NEED BE. BEFORE HIM

01:43 - 52.030 LIVE AT THE COURT WOULD LIKE

01:43 - 52.470 I'D LIKE

01:43 - 54.150 TO ADDRESS A FEW OF THE

01:43 - 55.570 CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED IN

01:43 - 57.020 SOME OF MCKEE SUBMISSIONS

01:43 - 58.510 REGARDING. OUR

01:43 - 01.300 PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS. THERE

01:44 - 03.370 WAS A SUBMISSION THE

01:44 - 04.120 PETITIONERS IN THE

01:44 - 06.970 DAVID LAWSUIT AND THEY RAISED 2

01:44 - 09.020 ISSUES I THINK FIRST THEY THEY

01:44 - 10.540 I THINK THE REASON A COMPLAINT

01:44 - 12.540 OR CONCERN THAT THE

01:44 - 14.250 PERIOD THAT WE

01:44 - 15.950 LAY OUT IN THE CONGRATS

01:44 - 17.450 PROPOSED CONGRESSIONAL, IT'S

01:44 - 18.610 TRUE I GO YES.

01:44 - 20.710 >>I ALWAYS WANT TO BE LIKE I

01:44 - 22.420 PROMISE YOU WE GOT THE TIMES

01:44 - 24.470 AND THAT WE'RE GOING TO COMPLY

01:44 - 25.910 AND I MEAN I CAN'T

01:44 - 27.420 ABSOLUTELY PRIZE BUT I FEEL

01:44 - 28.590 EVERY CONFIDENCE THAT

01:44 - 29.440 THIS COURT.

01:44 - 31.130 >>HE'S SENSITIVE TO THE NEEDS

01:44 - 32.340 OF THE PEOPLE OF PENNSYLVANIA

01:44 - 33.740 SENSITIVITY TO THE GOVERNMENT

01:44 - 35.540 OF PENNSYLVANIA. AND WE'RE

01:44 - 37.530 GOING TO COMMON 8 YOUR TIME.

01:44 - 38.380 YOU DON'T HAVE TO

01:44 - 40.650 WORRY ABOUT COUNTERING OTHER

01:44 - 42.280 ARGUMENTS THAT ME I'D YEAR HERE

01:44 - 43.450 IN GOOD FAITH TO PART OF THE

01:44 - 45.560 WHOLE OF GOVERNMENT. WE ACCEPT

01:44 - 46.140 WHAT YOU SAY.

01:44 - 47.780 SO MAYBE YOU WANT TO ARGUE WITH

01:44 - 49.650 WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO MOVE

01:44 - 50.840 FORWARD, BUT IT'S AN

01:44 - 52.140 EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT

01:44 - 53.520 MATTERS SO WE'RE TRYING TO THE

01:44 - 55.020 BALANCE MAYBE YOU WANT TO TELL

01:44 - 56.420 US WHAT GOVERNOR WOLF MAPS

01:44 - 58.640 >>I WOULD DIRECT MUCH LIKE TO

01:44 - 59.450 YOU I THINK IT

01:44 - 01.330 I WILL IT WILL CHANGE ACT AS IT

01:45 - 03.020 WERE AND NOW SPEAK ON BEHALF OF

01:45 - 03.570 THE GOVERNOR.

01:45 - 06.560 REDISTRICTING IS

01:45 - 08.490 NOT JUST A ONE CITY DECADE

01:45 - 10.070 EXERCISE AND ADJUSTING BOUNDARY

01:45 - 10.960 LINES ON A MAP

01:45 - 12.610 AS THIS COURT HAS RECOGNIZED IT

01:45 - 13.870 IS AN EVENT WITH PROFOUND

01:45 - 15.760 CONSEQUENCES FOR THE HEALTH OF

01:45 - 17.600 OUR DEMOCRACY AND I THINK THIS

01:45 - 18.480 COURT SAID IT WELL IN THE

01:45 - 18.730 LEAGUE OF

01:45 - 21.160 WOMEN VOTERS. THAT HEALTHY

01:45 - 22.350 REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY

01:45 - 23.890 REQUIRES THAT ALL VOTERS HAVE

01:45 - 25.480 AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO

01:45 - 27.190 TRANSLATE THEIR VOTES IN THE

01:45 - 28.630 REPRESENTATION AND THAT THIS

01:45 - 29.850 REQUIREMENT OF GIVING ALL

01:45 - 31.720 VOTERS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO

01:45 - 32.850 ELECT THEIR REPRESENTATIVES OF

01:45 - 34.410 CHOICE IS A MANDATE OF THE

01:45 - 35.660 PENNSYLVANIA, A PENNSYLVANIA

01:45 - 37.650 CONSTITUTIONS FREE AND EQUAL

01:45 - 39.600 ELECTIONS CLAUSE. SO

01:45 - 41.030 I THINK WE CAN ALSO PUT THAT IN

01:45 - 42.630 TERMS OF WHAT WE DON'T WANT

01:45 - 44.140 WITH A DISTRICT PLAN.

01:45 - 45.890 WE DON'T WANT WHAT WE'VE SEEN

01:45 - 47.810 ALL TOO OFTEN AN AMERICAN AND

01:45 - 49.530 PENNSYLVANIA HISTORY, WHICH IS

01:45 - 50.920 A MAP THAT INFRINGES

01:45 - 52.820 A STRUCTURAL PARTISAN ADVANTAGE

01:45 - 54.240 BECAUSE LET ME ASK YOU THE SAME

01:45 - 55.880 QUESTION I ASKED MISTER DEVINE.

01:45 - 02.220 >>EXPLAIN TO US PLEASE WHY.

01:46 - 06.900 TO COMPLY. THE MAP NEEDS TO

01:46 - 07.560 DIVIDE.

01:46 - 09.920 THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH, THE

01:46 - 11.310 PITTSBURGH AS WE CALL IT.

01:46 - 13.150 >>WELL YOUR HONOR I THINK

01:46 - 15.640 THERE HAS BEEN NO SHOOT AND BY

01:46 - 16.500 SOME OF THE PARTIES IN THIS

01:46 - 17.560 CASE THAT SPLITTING

01:46 - 18.800 PITTSBURGH'S A KIND OF

01:46 - 20.720 CONSTITUTIONAL LITMUS TEST AND

01:46 - 22.270 AND IF YOU DO SPLIT PITTSBURGH

01:46 - 23.540 TO FAIL AND I WOULD

01:46 - 25.170 RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST, BUT

01:46 - 26.920 THAT MISUNDERSTANDS THE

01:46 - 29.270 TRADITIONAL CRITERIA FOR FOR A

01:46 - 30.470 STARTING POINT I DON'T THINK

01:46 - 31.540 THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING

01:46 - 32.620 IT ALL BUT WITH ALL

01:46 - 33.480 DUE RESPECT.

01:46 - 35.940 >>I THINK WE'RE ASKING WHETHER

01:46 - 37.760 OR WHY IT WAS

01:46 - 40.040 ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

01:46 - 41.950 >>TO SPLIT THE CITY LOOKS IT

01:46 - 43.310 LOOKS LIKE EVEN SAY ABSOLUTELY

01:46 - 44.220 FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT

01:46 - 48.630 NECESSARY BY YOU REALLY LIMITED

01:46 - 49.810 YOU WILL AGREE WITH THE PREMISE

01:46 - 52.030 HAS THE NECESSARY RIGHT WELL

01:46 - 52.590 YOUR HONOR

01:46 - 54.840 I THINK NOT IN SO FAR AS THAT

01:46 - 56.490 IS UNDERSTOOD TO MEAN WE NEED

01:46 - 58.790 TO MATHEMATICALLY MINIMIZE THE

01:46 - 00.410 NUMBER OF SUBDIVISIONS BUT IT'S

01:47 - 01.490 CONSISTENT WITH.

01:47 - 03.140 >>POPULATION OF QUALITY WHICH

01:47 - 04.140 IS HOW I UNDERSTAND FOR

01:47 - 05.570 INSTANCE, THE RUSSIAN COLOR

01:47 - 07.530 INTERVENE ERS TO TO INTERPRET

01:47 - 08.910 THAT PHRASE BECAUSE IF THAT'S

01:47 - 10.930 THE CASE. NO MAP IN

01:47 - 11.940 PENNSYLVANIA HISTORY. I THINK

01:47 - 12.640 HAS EVER ACHIEVED THIS

01:47 - 13.860 CERTAINLY THIS COURT'S MAP IN

01:47 - 15.910 2018 DIDN'T ACHIEVE THAT YOU

01:47 - 17.920 COULD HAVE AN EQUAL POPULATION

01:47 - 20.320 MAP THAT WE SPLIT THE CITY OF

01:47 - 21.800 PHILADELPHIA, IT WOULD LOOK

01:47 - 22.890 VERY STRANGE, IT WOULDN'T

01:47 - 24.670 BE COMPACT CERTAINLY THAT THAT

01:47 - 26.750 THAT IS A PROMISE TO GOING BACK

01:47 - 28.590 THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA HAS TO

01:47 - 30.240 BE SPLIT TO SOME EXTENT.

01:47 - 31.730 >>BECAUSE ITS POPULATION

01:47 - 33.630 EXCEEDS THE NUMBER OF PERSONS

01:47 - 35.000 IN A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

01:47 - 36.880 THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH FITS

01:47 - 39.120 NEATLY WITHIN A CONGRESSIONAL

01:47 - 40.540 DISTRICT WITHOUT BEING SPLIT

01:47 - 41.970 AND THAT'S YOUR HONOR MY POINT

01:47 - 43.720 WAS SIMPLY THAT IF YOU IF YOU

01:47 - 45.270 READ ABSOLUTE NECESSITY IN

01:47 - 47.130 TERMS OF MATHEMATICAL NECESSITY

01:47 - 48.160 THEN YOU'D ONLY BE ALLOWED TO

01:47 - 49.420 SPLIT THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA,

01:47 - 51.110 NO MAP WOULD BE ALLOWED TO PLAY

01:47 - 53.240 AT ALLEGHENY COUNTY GOT TO HAVE

01:47 - 54.740 TO SPLIT ALLEGHENY COUNTY AND

01:47 - 56.320 IN MY POINT IS ALL THE MAPS

01:47 - 57.320 WITH MORE.

01:47 - 58.780 >>CITIES INCLUDING THIS COURT'S

01:47 - 00.300 2018 MAP MORE CITIES OR

01:48 - 01.610 COUNTIES AND IS MATHEMATICALLY

01:48 - 03.560 NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE

01:48 - 04.960 POPULATION OF QUALITY AND I

01:48 - 06.290 THINK IT'S NOTABLE THAT ALL OF

01:48 - 06.350 THE

01:48 - 08.560 MAPS HERE ON THE SPLITS PERFORM

01:48 - 09.800 VERY WELL THEY'RE WITHIN A VERY

01:48 - 11.590 NARROW BEING USED TO WHY WE'RE

01:48 - 13.400 HERE I'M SORRY WHAT.

01:48 - 14.290 >>WE'RE.

01:48 - 17.120 >>NO ONE EXCEPT MAYBE THE AMOC

01:48 - 18.400 IS CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IS

01:48 - 19.500 OBJECTING TO.

01:48 - 20.610 >>THE SPLITTING OF CITY OF

01:48 - 22.960 WILLIAMSPORT HAS RAISED ANY

01:48 - 24.760 THE OTHER ISSUE ABOUT A

01:48 - 26.740 PARTICULAR SPLIT MUNICIPALITY,

01:48 - 28.530 THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH SPLIT

01:48 - 30.840 STANDS OUT. AND I THINK THE

01:48 - 31.940 QUESTION FROM THE COURT IS A

01:48 - 33.750 VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTION

01:48 - 35.600 IN THE I'M I'M GOING TRYING TO

01:48 - 37.300 ASK YOU ONE MORE TIME WHAT IS

01:48 - 38.180 YOUR MAPS BUT THE CITY OF

01:48 - 38.540 PITTSBURGH.

01:48 - 39.680 >>BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE ABLE

01:48 - 41.010 TO REALIZE SOME IMPORTANT

01:48 - 42.380 VIRTUES AS A RESULT OF THAT

01:48 - 44.490 THAT THAT ARE HARDER OR NOT

01:48 - 45.740 POSSIBLE TO REALIZE OTHERWISE.

01:48 - 47.860 ONE YOU GET THE MORE COMPACT

01:48 - 49.230 MAP AND I THINK THE TESTIMONY

01:48 - 51.290 FROM THE EXPERTS WAS UNIFORM

01:48 - 52.850 BOTH THAT THERE ARE TRADEOFFS

01:48 - 54.900 BETWEEN SPLITS AND COMPACTNESS

01:48 - 56.120 AND THEY'RE BOTH IMPORTANT

01:48 - 57.760 CRITERIA. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT

01:48 - 59.650 YOUR ESTATE PRUDENT RANKS THE

01:48 - 00.860 TRADITIONAL QUITE WELL LET ME

01:49 - 01.940 PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT ON THAT.

01:49 - 03.530 >>THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THE

01:49 - 04.760 TERROR THAT LEDGES AND

01:49 - 06.390 THIS IS THIS IS FOR STATE

01:49 - 08.060 LEGISLATIVE MAPS INCORPORATED

01:49 - 09.430 AS THE FLOOR FOR CONGRESSIONAL

01:49 - 10.760 MAPS INTO THE FRAY AND IT WILL

01:49 - 12.400 ACTUALLY COST. AND IT SAYS

01:49 - 14.060 TERRITORIES HAVE TO BE COMPACT

01:49 - 15.570 AND CONTIGUOUS THEY DON'T SAY

01:49 - 16.810 IS COMPACT AND CONTIGUOUS AS

01:49 - 18.520 POSSIBLE. THEY SAY COMPACT AND

01:49 - 20.400 CONTIGUOUS IT SAYS HAS NEARLY

01:49 - 21.780 AS EQUAL POPULATION AS

01:49 - 23.710 PRACTICABLE WHICH IS ALSO THE

01:49 - 25.140 ONE PERSON ONE VOTE STANDARD

01:49 - 26.450 FROM THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION.

01:49 - 28.750 BUT THE AD THIS WITH REGARD TO

01:49 - 30.720 SPLITS WHICH DOESN'T EXIST IN

01:49 - 31.230 THE COMPACT

01:49 - 33.060 AND CONTIGUOUS UNLESS

01:49 - 36.210 ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. NO COUNTY

01:49 - 37.430 CITY INQUIRY TIME BURROW

01:49 - 38.840 TOWNSHIP OR WERE SHELBY DIVIDED

01:49 - 40.970 INFORMING FOR ME THE DISTRICT

01:49 - 43.830 AND SO THERE'S NO QUALIFIER FOR

01:49 - 45.880 COMPACTNESS OR CONCOCTED EWING.

01:49 - 48.870 HOW CAN YOU THEN ELEVATE OR USE

01:49 - 51.080 THAT AS A JUSTIFICATION AND TO

01:49 - 52.510 GET RID OF OR

01:49 - 54.490 TO SACRIFICE. THE

01:49 - 56.540 SPLIT LANGUAGE WHICH DOES HAVE

01:49 - 58.400 QUALIFIER UNLESS ABSOLUTELY

01:49 - 59.110 NECESSARY.

01:49 - 00.610 >>WE ARE ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND

01:50 - 02.300 THAT EXTRA ARGUMENT AND I THINK

01:50 - 03.280 MY EVERYTHING I DO I MAKE

01:50 - 04.730 TEXTUAL ARE UNDER STATE UNDER

01:50 - 05.260 STATE.

01:50 - 08.000 AND MY RESPONSE WOULD SIMPLY BE

01:50 - 09.390 IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF

01:50 - 10.300 MAPMAKING.

01:50 - 12.280 THAT CAN'T BE THE RIGHT WAY TO

01:50 - 13.670 INTERPRET THE FRAY CAN'T BE A

01:50 - 15.070 LITERAL MATHEMATICAL MY

01:50 - 16.980 SHOOTING NOR THE EXPRESS

01:50 - 18.640 LANGUAGE OF THE CONSTITUTION IN

01:50 - 21.090 PURSUIT OF A HISTORIC MAPMAKING

01:50 - 23.280 YOUR HONOR I I WOULD ASK THE

01:50 - 25.000 COURT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE

01:50 - 27.000 WAY THAT THAT THE PHRASE HAS

01:50 - 29.470 BEEN UNIVERSALLY INTERPRET IT

01:50 - 30.950 IS NOT AS MATHEMATICAL

01:50 - 32.600 MINIMIZATION BUT THAT IT IS A

01:50 - 34.320 VERY IMPORTANT VALUE THAT WE

01:50 - 35.390 SHOULD TRY

01:50 - 36.840 TO RESPECT POLITICAL

01:50 - 38.780 SUBDIVISION BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO

01:50 - 39.890 REALIZE THAT VALUE IN THE

01:50 - 41.910 CONTEXT OF REALIZING OTHER NEWS

01:50 - 43.530 SUCH AS COMPACTNESS SUCH AS

01:50 - 44.650 PROTECTING COMMUNITIES OF

01:50 - 46.090 INTEREST WHICH CAN BE BOTH

01:50 - 47.910 SMALLER THAN AND LARGER THAN

01:50 - 50.080 POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS AND ALSO

01:50 - 51.390 IN PURSUE WHAT WE THINK IS THE

01:50 - 53.880 BOTTOM LINE VALUE WERE GOAL OF

01:50 - 54.980 THE FREE AND EQUAL ELECTIONS

01:50 - 56.580 CLAUSE WHICH IS ENSURING THAT

01:50 - 57.950 ALL VOTERS HAVING PEOPLE

01:50 - 59.290 OPPORTUNITY TO TRANSLATE

01:50 - 01.480 THERE POLITICAL PREFERENCES,

01:51 - 02.830 WHAT DOES THAT WHAT DOES RIGHT

01:51 - 04.530 BY THAT I DON'T MIND MONOPOLIZE

01:51 - 06.160 HERE BUT THIS THIS ALSO GOES

01:51 - 07.000 FOR THE CASE.

01:51 - 10.750 >>WHAT DOES THAT.

01:51 - 11.530 >>ME.

01:51 - 14.150 >>BECAUSE DOES THAT

01:51 - 16.480 MEAN THAT AND IF THE GENERAL

01:51 - 17.710 ASSEMBLY AND THE GOVERNOR THIS

01:51 - 18.760 IS WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT I

01:51 - 19.920 THINK ALL OF US AGREE WE NEVER

01:51 - 20.860 WANT TO BE HERE AGAIN.

01:51 - 24.210 >>DOES THAT MEAN IF THE

01:51 - 25.120 GOVERNOR AND THE GENERAL

01:51 - 26.510 ASSEMBLY, MAYBE EVEN A DIVIDED

01:51 - 27.820 GOVERNOR AND GENERAL ASSEMBLY

01:51 - 28.830 AGREE WITH THE MASK.

01:51 - 32.310 GIVE AN ABSOLUTE

01:51 - 34.880 0% SPLIT

01:51 - 37.060 BETWEEN CONGRESSIONAL WE GO TO

01:51 - 38.940 16 AT SOME POINT IN TIME IN THE

01:51 - 40.030 MAPS THE MAP

01:51 - 41.300 BY ALL POLITICAL MEASURES

01:51 - 42.590 LOOKING AT PAST ELECTIONS AND

01:51 - 44.310 FORWARD ELECTIONS. RESULT IN

01:51 - 46.770 A 10. YOU KNOW I 10 SAY THEY

01:51 - 48.280 HAVE NOT BEEN TO 10 8 OR

01:51 - 49.080 SOMETHING LIKE THAT I KNOW

01:51 - 49.820 SOMETHING THAT'S SOMETHING

01:51 - 51.240 THAT'S NOT EXACTLY EVEN.

01:51 - 53.890 CAN A VOTER COM

01:51 - 55.550 IF WE GO DOWN THIS ROAD AND WE

01:51 - 56.810 SAY THE FREE AND EQUAL ELECTION

01:51 - 57.770 CAUSED THE MAN'S

01:51 - 59.590 PROPORTIONALITY YOUR DEMANDS

01:51 - 00.690 WHAT IS BEING DEFINED AS

01:52 - 02.230 FAIRNESS WANT THAT OPEN THE

01:52 - 04.160 SCORE TO A CHALLENGE EVERY TIME

01:52 - 06.510 A MAP COMES OUT THAT IS FAVORS

01:52 - 07.380 ONE PARTY OVER

01:52 - 09.180 THE OTHER AND DEMAND THAT WE

01:52 - 10.390 REWRITE IT IN THE INTEREST OF

01:52 - 11.500 FREE AND EQUAL ELECTION TO MAKE

01:52 - 12.770 IT EQUAL BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE

01:52 - 14.280 CASE AND THAT'S THE TEST THAT

01:52 - 16.100 EVERY MAP HAS TO BE EQUAL.

01:52 - 19.380 THEN WE'LL BE LITIGATING THESE

01:52 - 19.560 ALL

01:52 - 20.190 THE TIME.

01:52 - 21.740 >>WE ARE I I ABSOLUTELY

01:52 - 24.320 UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN AND I I

01:52 - 25.380 THINK THE COURT CAN AVOID IT

01:52 - 26.180 HERE AND LET ME TRY TO

01:52 - 29.190 EXPLAIN WHY I YOU'RE IN TOUCH

01:52 - 30.220 WITH YOUR ATTORNEY NUMBER OF

01:52 - 31.380 POINTS. I'D LIKE TO RESPOND

01:52 - 33.380 TO INCLUDING WHAT WE MEAN WHEN

01:52 - 34.530 WE SPEAK ABOUT FAIRNESS OR

01:52 - 35.700 EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND WANT TO

01:52 - 36.860 MAKE SURE I'VE GOT SOME BOARDS

01:52 - 37.630 NIGHT BROUGHT TO TRY TO

01:52 - 39.200 ILLUSTRATE THAT WHICH OUT TRY

01:52 - 40.620 REFERRED TO IN A MOMENT,

01:52 - 41.920 BUT I THINK THERE'S A

01:52 - 43.980 FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

01:52 - 45.680 A SITUATION IN WHICH WE HAVE A

01:52 - 47.720 LAWFULLY INACTIVE MAP AS WE DID

01:52 - 48.710 IN 2011.

01:52 - 50.190 AND THEN SOMEONE COMES AND

01:52 - 51.930 CHALLENGES THAT MAP AND SAYS

01:52 - 54.220 THIS MAP IS SO DEFICIENT UNDER

01:52 - 55.390 THE FREE AND EQUAL ELECTIONS

01:52 - 56.750 CLAUSE THAT IT VIOLATES MY

01:52 - 58.170 CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AS A

01:52 - 59.720 VOTER AND THIS COURT SHOULD

01:52 - 00.020 THROW IT

01:53 - 01.800 OUT THIS COURT INVALIDATED

01:53 - 03.200 THAT'S ONE SET OF QUESTIONS AND

01:53 - 04.220 THAT WAS THE QUESTION THE COURT

01:53 - 05.160 CAN FIND IN THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN

01:53 - 06.970 VOTERS THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION

01:53 - 09.200 HERE AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I

01:53 - 10.240 THINK WE CAN LOOK AT THE

01:53 - 12.230 CONSTITUTION AND IN PARTICULAR

01:53 - 13.480 THE FREE AND EQUAL ELECTIONS

01:53 - 16.260 CLAUSE AND SEE IT NOT JUST AS

01:53 - 17.660 UNDERSTANDABLY COURTS TEND TO

01:53 - 19.110 LOOK AT CONSTITUTIONS WHICH HAS

01:53 - 20.750 A SET OF RIGHTS THAT ARE

01:53 - 22.800 JUDICIALLY ENFORCEABLE AGAINST

01:53 - 24.000 THE POLITICAL BRANCHES,

01:53 - 25.290 BUT I WOULD SUBMIT THAT'S NOT

01:53 - 26.580 THE END THOUGH THAT DOESN'T

01:53 - 27.960 EXHAUST AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE

01:53 - 29.380 CONSTITUTION OR OUGHT

01:53 - 31.760 NOT TO IT ALSO CAN AND DOES I

01:53 - 33.150 THINK THIS CONSTITUTION AND

01:53 - 35.290 THIS FREE ELECTIONS PAS EMBODY

01:53 - 36.610 STANDARDS AND GOALS

01:53 - 37.860 AND WE CAN LOOK TO THOSE

01:53 - 39.530 STANDARDS AND GOALS IN A CASE

01:53 - 41.310 LIKE THIS IN PARTICULAR WHERE

01:53 - 43.160 THE COURT IS NOT BEING ASKED

01:53 - 45.560 IS THERE SOME DEFICIENCY THAT

01:53 - 47.140 RISES TO THE LEVEL OF

01:53 - 49.260 UNCONSTITUTIONAL ANY SUCH THAT

01:53 - 51.250 WE INVALIDATE A LAWFULLY

01:53 - 52.830 INACTIVE MAP WHICH CLEARLY IS

01:53 - 54.190 ENTITLED TO SOME DEFERENCE TO

01:53 - 55.570 LAWFULLY ACTIVE NOT THAT WAS

01:53 - 56.990 PASSED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

01:53 - 58.980 AND APPROVED BY THE GOVERNOR

01:53 - 01.130 THAT'S NOT THE SITUATION AND SO

01:54 - 02.460 I DON'T THINK THIS COURT NEEDS

01:54 - 03.890 TO WORRY ABOUT THE KIND OF

01:54 - 04.970 PRECEDENT THAT I UNDERSTOOD

01:54 - 06.200 YOUR HONOR TO BE UNDERSTANDABLY

01:54 - 07.400 WORRIED ABOUT WHICH IS THAT WE

01:54 - 09.720 SAY WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A MAP

01:54 - 11.670 HERE BECAUSE WE THINK IT DOES

01:54 - 13.250 THE BEST JOB OF

01:54 - 15.200 THE EVENING, FAIRNESS IT DOES

01:54 - 17.400 THE BEST JOB OF REALIZING THE

01:54 - 18.220 FREE NICK WILL LET

01:54 - 20.890 YOU PAUSE THE GOAL OF ENSURING

01:54 - 21.590 THIS IS THE LANGUAGE THAT

01:54 - 23.240 SCORED USED TO THE GREATEST

01:54 - 25.820 DEGREE POSSIBLE THAT ALL VOTERS

01:54 - 27.290 HAVE AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO

01:54 - 28.600 TRANSLATE THEIR POLITICAL

01:54 - 29.860 PREFERENCES AND I THINK THAT'S

01:54 - 30.840 A FAIR I THINK THAT'S A FAIR

01:54 - 32.150 COMPARISON AND I I WILL AGREE

01:54 - 32.860 WITH THAT, BUT THERE'S A

01:54 - 34.040 DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHALLENGE

01:54 - 35.220 TO A MAP THAT DESERVE SOME

01:54 - 36.370 DIFFERENCE BECAUSE IT WAS

01:54 - 37.620 PASSED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

01:54 - 38.740 AND GOVERNOR AND WE PROBABLY

01:54 - 39.550 SHOULDN'T.

01:54 - 42.880 >>SECOND GUESS THAT UNLESS

01:54 - 44.370 IT IS AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL

01:54 - 45.790 PARTISAN GERRYMANDER MAO A

01:54 - 47.470 PORTION OF THE WAR RACIAL

01:54 - 48.660 GERRYMANDER WERE THE THINGS

01:54 - 49.350 THAT THERE IS HISTORIC

01:54 - 50.170 PRECEDENT TO.

01:54 - 51.720 WHAT HAPPENS THOUGH IF

01:54 - 53.680 NEGOTIATIONS BREAK DOWN BETWEEN

01:54 - 54.610 THE LEGISLATURE AND

01:54 - 57.640 THE GOVERNOR. AND THE GOVERNOR

01:54 - 59.510 DECIDES TO TAKE THE CHANCES.

01:55 - 02.630 WITH BASICALLY SAYING I'D

01:55 - 04.210 RATHER JUST GO WITH A 0 SUM

01:55 - 05.530 GAME AFTER THE SUPREME COURT

01:55 - 06.550 ALWAYS GOING TO GIVE ME THE

01:55 - 07.940 NEGOTIATE SOMETHING ELSE.

01:55 - 09.650 >>WE ARE I THINK THAT RISK

01:55 - 10.910 EXISTS ON BOTH SIDES RIGHT

01:55 - 12.330 DEPENDING ON WHAT THE COURTS.

01:55 - 14.260 I AGREE DO WE HOW DO WE MUELLER

01:55 - 16.120 YBARRA'S KINDLY MUELLER IDEA

01:55 - 17.020 THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THE

01:55 - 18.000 GOVERNOR WILL JUST SAY THAT

01:55 - 18.930 WE'RE STARTING TO GET TO DO IT

01:55 - 19.810 BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT WILL

01:55 - 21.080 GIVE US A 0 SUM AT.

01:55 - 23.030 WELL I THINK IT'S NOT

01:55 - 24.670 NECESSARILY ABOUT A 0 SUM MAP I

01:55 - 25.740 THINK WHAT WHAT

01:55 - 27.970 OUR PROPOSAL IS IN TERMS OF HOW

01:55 - 29.130 THE 2 WOMEN VOTERS IN THE FREE

01:55 - 30.230 AND EQUAL ELECTIONS SHOULD BE

01:55 - 31.570 UNDERSTOOD IS REALLY A

01:55 - 32.820 TWO-PART TEST.

01:55 - 34.990 >>AND THE FIRST STEP IS TO

01:55 - 36.680 APPLY THE TRADITIONAL CRITERIA.

01:55 - 37.490 AND

01:55 - 39.780 YOU JUST QUALIFY ANY MAP THAT

01:55 - 41.580 DOESN'T SATISFY THOSE QUITE

01:55 - 43.220 HEAR THOSE 4 CRITERIA. NOW I

01:55 - 44.320 THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP

01:55 - 46.470 IN MIND THAT THOSE 4 CRITERIA

01:55 - 47.750 ARE NOT IN AND OF THEMSELVES

01:55 - 48.790 ARE RIGHT BEST A BETTER WAY TO

01:55 - 50.490 SAY IT MIGHT BE NOT MERELY AN

01:55 - 52.100 END IN THEMSELVES THEY ARE

01:55 - 53.780 EXPRESSLY DESIGNED TO OPERATE

01:55 - 55.830 FOR PROTECTION, ENSURING THAT

01:55 - 56.570 VOTERS HAVE AN EQUAL

01:55 - 58.930 OPPORTUNITY TO ELECT. SO THAT'S

01:55 - 00.480 THE FIRST THRESHOLD TEST

01:56 - 01.930 AND THEN YOU TAKE THE MAPS THAT

01:56 - 03.880 ARE MEAN AND THEN YOU LOOK AND

01:56 - 05.430 SEE WHY ARE THERE ARE REAL

01:56 - 06.650 DIFFERENCES AMONG THESE

01:56 - 07.560 REMAINING MAPS

01:56 - 10.350 HAS TO HOW WELL THEY DO ALLOW

01:56 - 12.130 VOTERS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY

01:56 - 14.250 TO TRANSLATE THEIR VOTES INTO

01:56 - 15.500 ELECTED REPRESENTATION RE

01:56 - 16.870 MISTER WEIGEL IS PREVIOUS

01:56 - 18.330 COUNCIL HAVE THAT ALL OF THE

01:56 - 20.040 MAP SUBMITTED DOES MEET THAT

01:56 - 21.950 MINIMUM FOUNDATION AND FIGHT.

01:56 - 23.660 >>CONSTITUTIONAL COMPLIANT.

01:56 - 25.270 I THINK I WOULD CAN SEE THAT

01:56 - 26.590 YOU ARE CERTAINLY THE VAST BULK

01:56 - 28.020 OF THEM DO, BUT I THINK THERE

01:56 - 29.390 ARE SOME THAT CLEARLY DO BETTER

01:56 - 31.200 THAN OTHERS AND I WOULD AND I

01:56 - 32.700 WOULD STAY AT IT,

01:56 - 34.550 CORRECT CORRECT. BUT I THINK

01:56 - 35.460 THE WAY THAT OUR EXPERT

01:56 - 37.610 DOCTOR DUCHIN ANALYZED IT MAY

01:56 - 38.990 BE HELPFUL TO THE COURT I THINK

01:56 - 40.660 SHE DID CAN SEE THAT AS A WHOLE

01:56 - 41.970 THE MAP TO A VERY GOOD JOB

01:56 - 43.410 UNDER THE TRADITIONAL CRITERIA.

01:56 - 44.850 SHE DIDN'T THINK THAT YOU COULD

01:56 - 46.970 TAKE IT KIND OF FRONTIER

01:56 - 48.970 ANALYSIS WHICH YOU LOOK AT WHEN

01:56 - 49.470 YOU ARE

01:56 - 53.200 ANALYZING FACTORS ARE VALUES

01:56 - 54.520 THAT HAVE TRADEOFFS BETWEEN

01:56 - 56.860 THEM AND YOU CAN SEIZE CHART UP

01:56 - 59.000 FRONT HERE WHERE YOU SAY WELL

01:56 - 00.510 SOME APPS MAY BE BETTER ON

01:57 - 02.740 COMPACTNESS BUT THOSE MAPS TOO

01:57 - 04.100 LITTLE BIT WORSE AND SPLITS AND

01:57 - 05.470 VICE VERSA BUT THEY'RE ALL ON

01:57 - 06.790 THE FRONT HERE AND SHE SAID YOU

01:57 - 07.170 COULD HAVE.

01:57 - 09.120 FIRST TIER OF

01:57 - 11.110 THE MAPS IN NOT IN THAT REGARD

01:57 - 13.050 AND YOU HAVE A RAISES AN

01:57 - 14.260 IMPORTANT POINT THAT I DON'T

01:57 - 15.750 THINK WE'VE STRESSED EARLIER

01:57 - 18.130 TODAY AND THAT IS THAT A WHOLE

01:57 - 18.410 LOT

01:57 - 20.530 OF WORK AND A WHOLE LOT OF

01:57 - 22.600 EFFORT AND GOOD FAITH EFFORT

01:57 - 24.220 WENT INTO THE PREPARATION OF

01:57 - 26.020 ALL OF THESE MAPS AND.

01:57 - 27.690 >>REALLY COUNCIL AND THE

01:57 - 29.780 EXPERTS AND THE PARTIES WE ARE

01:57 - 31.070 TO BE COMMENDED FOR THAT.

01:57 - 32.680 >>THANK YOU OR I THINK I AGREE

01:57 - 33.730 WITH YOU AND I THINK ALSO

01:57 - 34.220 THERE'S BEEN SOME

01:57 - 36.010 TALK ABOUT WHAT WAS THE

01:57 - 37.420 MOTIVATION OR THE RECORD'S NOT

01:57 - 38.870 CLEAR ON THE MOTIVATION I WOULD

01:57 - 40.540 SAY IF YOU LOOK AT LEAGUE OF

01:57 - 42.290 WOMEN VOTERS, IT'S LESS FOCUS

01:57 - 43.700 AND MOTIVATION I THINK IT'S

01:57 - 45.000 TRUE THAT IF YOU HAD AN UNFAIR

01:57 - 46.620 MAP WHEN THAT WAS INTENTIONALLY

01:57 - 47.460 UNFAIR WOULD BE MORE

01:57 - 48.680 CONSTITUTIONALLY OFFENSIVE

01:57 - 49.970 PROBABLY THE ONE THAT JUST

01:57 - 51.430 ENDED UP THAT WAY BUT AT THE

01:57 - 52.380 END OF THE DAY.

01:57 - 53.740 THE QUESTION IS WHETHER VOTERS

01:57 - 55.360 HAVE AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO

01:57 - 56.590 TRANSLATE THEIR VOTES INTO

01:57 - 58.980 ELECTED REPRESENTATION AND I

01:57 - 00.480 YOU KNOW THE MAPS CAN HIDE AN

01:58 - 01.490 OUTRIGHT THEY'VE ALL BEEN

01:58 - 03.560 EXHAUSTIVELY ANALYZED UNDER ALL

01:58 - 04.460 OF THESE METRICS

01:58 - 05.850 PARTISAN VARIOUS METRICS

01:58 - 07.410 TRADITIONAL CRITERIA METRICS

01:58 - 08.290 SO

01:58 - 09.120 YOU KNOW WHAT THERE ARE SOME

01:58 - 11.090 FLAW THERE I THINK IT'S FAIR TO

01:58 - 12.240 ASSUME THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN

01:58 - 14.100 FERRET IT OUT WELL WHILE YOU

01:58 - 16.010 WOULD AGREE THAT YOUR EXPERT.

01:58 - 18.510 >>HAS SAID THAT HAS

01:58 - 19.380 ACKNOWLEDGED

01:58 - 25.790 GEOGRAPHICALLY. BASED ON

01:58 - 27.300 POPULATION IN FAVOR.

01:58 - 29.070 THAT WOULD LEAN REPUBLICAN IN

01:58 - 30.600 TURNOUT OF CONGRESSIONAL RACES

01:58 - 31.670 AND THAT

01:58 - 33.580 SHE MADE DECISIONS OR SHE

01:58 - 34.810 BELIEVED DECISIONS WERE MADE IN

01:58 - 37.710 THE MAP TO TO TO COME. COMBAT

01:58 - 39.170 IS TOO STRONG OF A WORD TOO.

01:58 - 42.260 MODERATE THAT A LITTLE BIT WHY

01:58 - 42.660 ISN'T THAT A

01:58 - 43.750 PARTISAN DECISION.

01:58 - 45.520 >>WE'RE HONORED TO BE TO

01:58 - 46.690 PREPARE SHE DIDN'T MAKE THE

01:58 - 47.750 DECISION SHE WAS DOING THE

01:58 - 50.150 ANALYSIS. AFTER THE FACT HE WAS

01:58 - 51.400 IN THE MAP SHE WAS IN A MINUTE

01:58 - 52.940 SHE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT DECISIONS

01:58 - 55.770 WERE MADE TO TO MITIGATE WHAT

01:58 - 56.930 IS OTHERWISE A NATURAL

01:58 - 58.750 GEOGRAPHICALLY I THINK THERE'S

01:58 - 00.230 NO DISPUTE THAT ONE OF

01:59 - 01.920 THE GOVERNORS GOALS ARE

01:59 - 04.010 PRINCIPLES IS IS FAIRNESS IN

01:59 - 05.210 THE SENSE OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITY

01:59 - 06.550 DESCRIBES YES IN THAT SENSE

01:59 - 07.510 THAT WITH THAT KIND OF THING

01:59 - 09.220 THAT FAIRNESS IN THAT REGARDS

01:59 - 10.990 MAKES A DECISION THAT WOULD

01:59 - 12.710 FAVOR A DEMOCRATIC VOTE SHARE.

01:59 - 14.010 NO I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT

01:59 - 15.420 YOUR HONOR AND I THINK THAT

01:59 - 17.860 WHAT DOCTOR DUCHIN SAID WAS IF

01:59 - 20.120 YOU RANDOMLY GENERATED A WHOLE

01:59 - 22.150 BUNCH OF MAPS 100,000 MAPS

01:59 - 23.280 AND ALL YOU SAID TO THE

01:59 - 24.890 COMPUTER WISE YOU'VE GOT TO

01:59 - 25.740 ASCENSION WE NEED THE

01:59 - 28.030 TRADITIONAL CRITERIA, RIGHT YOU

01:59 - 29.180 WOULD ABSOLUTELY GET THE

01:59 - 30.880 GOVERNOR'S MAP AS ONE OF THOSE

01:59 - 32.930 MAPS AND IN FACT YOU WOULD GET

01:59 - 34.950 I THINK THAT 1000 OR SEVERAL

01:59 - 36.740 1000 MAPS THAT HAD SIMILAR

01:59 - 38.060 CHARACTERISTICS TO THE

01:59 - 39.730 GOVERNOR'S MAPS. SO IN OTHER

01:59 - 41.000 WORDS, IT'S A MAP THAT IS

01:59 - 42.510 TOTALLY CONSISTENT WITH

01:59 - 44.280 PENNSYLVANIA'S GEOGRAPHY, THE

01:59 - 45.340 LEAN THAT YOUR HONOR IS

01:59 - 47.870 REFERRING TO IS A REFLECTION OF

01:59 - 48.840 THE FACT THAT IF YOU RAN A

01:59 - 51.150 100,000 OF THOSE SIMULATIONS

01:59 - 52.410 AND A 100,000 OF THOSE RAIN THE

01:59 - 55.210 MAPS MORE OF THEM WOULD HAVE.

01:59 - 58.460 >>PRO REPUBLICAN LEANING