00:08 - Are today by judge

00:08 - coryell Stevens

00:09 - president judge emeritus

00:10 - from Pennsylvania

00:11 - superior court

00:12 - since covered nineteen hit in

00:15 - march of two thousand

00:16 - and twenty many facets

00:17 - of life have moved

00:17 - to a remote platform

00:19 - how has that affected

00:19 - the courts in Pennsylvania

00:21 - oh it's been

00:22 - unbelievable a lotta

00:23 - lotta changes a lot of changes.

00:26 - Bench trials

00:27 - some of them are being remote

00:28 - some are not being remote.

00:30 - We have to look out thanks to

00:32 - the supreme court

00:33 - and our president judge.

00:36 - Looking out for the staff.

00:38 - Putting in new

00:38 - protocols looking out

00:39 - for lawyer lawyers

00:40 - and people everybody.

00:42 - Saw major changes.

00:43 - What kind of new

00:44 - protocols have been

00:45 - put into place over

00:45 - the last two years.

00:46 - What was superior

00:47 - court what we're doing is

00:49 - argument gorgeous

00:50 - thirty five cases and a

00:51 - normally Philadelphia

00:52 - Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.

00:54 - Since the pandemic

00:55 - it's almost all been virtual

00:57 - and under our protocol now.

01:00 - We're going to try

01:01 - to go back in person

01:02 - in twenty twenty two

01:03 - course things change

01:04 - so often with this

01:06 - but

01:06 - any lawyers that want

01:08 - to be

01:08 - virtual

01:09 - remote

01:10 - if they have a health reason

01:12 - or covered related reason.

01:13 - They can request that the court

01:15 - be

01:16 - virtual

01:17 - and will set a separate day

01:18 - for the virtual arguments

01:20 - in every recession

01:21 - but right now it's

01:22 - up to the individual

01:23 - panels how they

01:24 - want to handle it.

01:26 - You've identified a list

01:27 - of common mistakes

01:28 - that often occur and

01:29 - some recommendations

01:30 - for how

01:31 - lawyers in particular

01:32 - can can perform

01:32 - better when they are

01:33 - appearing for a remote

01:34 - court situation yes

01:36 - so I'd like to go over those.

01:37 - About each of them

01:38 - the the first issue I

01:39 - brought up is light and.

01:41 - Lighting that that's major

01:43 - and we had a

01:44 - court session where.

01:46 - It was all dark and a voice came

01:48 - out of the darkness

01:49 - at your honors and

01:51 - we all jumped.

01:52 - The lawyer didn't realize

01:53 - he was sitting in the dark.

01:55 - Now I want to say

01:57 - lawyers are really trying

01:59 - to do it right and we

01:59 - just want to help them.

01:59 - But the lighting really

02:01 - should be behind the camera

02:03 - and

02:04 - the lawyer can go on to zoom.

02:06 - Create their own account.

02:08 - See how they look

02:09 - and adjust the lighting

02:10 - accordingly so lighting

02:12 - should really be

02:13 - behind the camera

02:14 - and.

02:15 - Not the glaring one

02:16 - way or the other.

02:21 - Yes background is another thing.

02:23 - We've seen some cases argued

02:25 - from a bedroom

02:26 - with an unmade bed.

02:28 - A laundry room.

02:30 - But it's very easy to just if if

02:32 - they're going to do it

02:33 - from home which is fine.

02:35 - On to the naked create a

02:36 - virtual background

02:37 - of their office.

02:39 - So

02:40 - just be aware of the

02:41 - background what's

02:42 - in it what what kind

02:43 - of room you're in.

02:45 - What's behind you.

02:48 - A lotta times and

02:50 - a lawyer will be

02:51 - making a big point

02:53 - an important point

02:54 - and then they realize that

02:55 - a mute buttons off or we.

02:57 - Have to signal them

02:58 - that the mute button is off.

03:00 - So we encourage them to

03:02 - really pay attention to that.

03:04 - Other times.

03:06 - We've seen arguments where

03:08 - the mute button

03:09 - is inadvertently.

03:10 - Left on.

03:12 - And there might be children

03:13 - playing in the background.

03:15 - Animals making noises

03:18 - and

03:18 - a spouse saying

03:19 - honey time for dinner.

03:21 - Just have to be aware that

03:23 - you want to mute buttons

03:24 - when you're making a point

03:26 - and you'll want

03:27 - the mute button off

03:28 - every other time.

03:29 - Unless a judge asks a question.

03:31 - If I could interrupt

03:32 - fancy for a minute what we

03:34 - do what we're doing under

03:36 - our president in

03:37 - charge of pinellas.

03:38 - Suggestion.

03:40 - Is where.

03:41 - We're letting the lawyers.

03:43 - Speak.

03:44 - Five minutes.

03:46 - Without interruption.

03:48 - And then each judge has the

03:49 - opportunity to ask questions.

03:51 - That way there's not a lot of

03:52 - talk over on a zoom meeting

03:54 - and and lawyer

03:55 - seem to like it because

03:56 - they could get

03:57 - some points across

03:58 - without being interrupted but

03:59 - we could still ask questions.

04:03 - Yes.

04:04 - Sometimes lawyers

04:05 - don't look at the camera

04:07 - and or they have

04:08 - their camera just

04:09 - facing that all you

04:11 - could see is the neck.

04:12 - Or perhaps all he

04:13 - could see his forehead.

04:15 - We've also had argument where

04:17 - the lawyer thought.

04:19 - He was

04:20 - on camera.

04:21 - But

04:22 - he he was off camera.

04:24 - And.

04:25 - So camera placement.

04:26 - You would think

04:27 - it's common sense

04:28 - but really again

04:29 - if you practice with zoom

04:31 - you can get it set up for

04:32 - in two minutes that the cameras.

04:35 - Looking at you.

04:38 - Author ity on superior

04:40 - court what we do.

04:41 - There's

04:42 - there's a practice session.

04:44 - For the lawyers.

04:45 - Before argument court starts.

04:48 - Some lawyers don't

04:48 - take advantage of that

04:50 - but what happens is

04:51 - then when they do get.

04:54 - An online it's their turn

04:56 - they have to stay signed in.

04:58 - And then rt will do.

05:00 - They will.

05:01 - Activate their camera.

05:03 - So a lotta times.

05:06 - When the time comes.

05:07 - Then the lawyer.

05:09 - Cannot find the video button

05:11 - or the sound button.

05:13 - So we try to encourage

05:14 - everybody to attend.

05:16 - The very brief practice

05:18 - session that our I t sets up

05:20 - before argument court

05:22 - and

05:22 - but even then

05:23 - they still have to pay

05:24 - attention when it's their turn.

05:26 - What recommendations

05:27 - do you offer if someone

05:29 - faces unforeseen

05:29 - technical problems once

05:31 - they're signed in.

05:32 - Or what what are

05:33 - quarters doing when when

05:34 - our presiding judge

05:35 - at the beginning gives

05:37 - gives the.

05:38 - The protocol for the day like

05:40 - how many minutes are

05:41 - going to argue and everything.

05:43 - We now tell the lawyers

05:45 - to lower the volume.

05:47 - On your cell phone

05:48 - not turn it completely off.

05:50 - And that way our I t person is

05:53 - who's

05:53 - monitoring the whole

05:54 - argument session.

05:56 - That way they can call them

05:58 - and help talk through any

05:59 - particular problem

06:00 - that's coming up.

06:01 - Now obvious if the

06:02 - Internet goes out.

06:03 - That that has to be

06:04 - addressed separately but

06:05 - I'm talking about

06:06 - problems that occur.

06:08 - During the remote.

06:09 - Session.

06:12 - Yeah they they really should

06:15 - be as I said turn down and.

06:17 - It's a good idea.

06:19 - Not to take a call.

06:21 - Or be on the cell phone.

06:23 - While the other lawyers arguing

06:25 - in case you're

06:26 - seen on camera or.

06:27 - In case the mute buttons on and

06:29 - they can hear the conversation.

06:32 - I think sometimes when when when

06:34 - a lawyer is arguing

06:35 - the case from their.

06:37 - Office

06:38 - and they need to him I

06:39 - especially if it's

06:40 - a larger office.

06:41 - They need to remind staff

06:43 - that they are actually

06:44 - in court.

06:46 - Because we've had

06:47 - occasions where a staff

06:48 - member for the lawyer

06:49 - maybe a secretary.

06:51 - Or part enter.

06:52 - My come walking in with a cup of

06:54 - coffee saying hey

06:54 - how you doing today

06:56 - and they don't realize that

06:57 - the lawyers in the middle of a

06:59 - court argument from their desk.

07:01 - So we try to remind them.

07:04 - The lawyers to reminder staff.

07:07 - That they're in court.

07:08 - It's

07:08 - there in court

07:09 - or in their office

07:10 - but they're actually in court.

07:14 - Well sometimes in live

07:16 - argument we have to

07:18 - remind lawyers.

07:19 - Until you don't roll

07:20 - your eyes when the

07:21 - other lawyers talk

07:22 - and don't make faces.

07:23 - Don't laugh.

07:25 - Inappropriately.

07:27 - But.

07:28 - When the camera's on

07:29 - in

07:30 - in the.

07:31 - Comfort

07:31 - have your own office sometimes

07:33 - people get a little

07:34 - bit too relaxed and.

07:36 - You know they'll

07:36 - they'll just do things

07:38 - with their face or.

07:39 - We we we we had a.

07:42 - A lawyer.

07:43 - Actually looking at the

07:45 - camera putting lipstick on.

07:48 - And that's all fine but not.

07:49 - Not an argument for it.

07:52 - Do you think that

07:52 - gestures become more

07:54 - amplified because they

07:55 - are on a close up full

07:56 - screen.

07:57 - Absolutely because at least in

07:58 - court there's a

07:59 - distance between.

08:00 - Where we sit on the

08:01 - court bench what we call it.

08:04 - Down with a lawyer

08:05 - stand at a podium.

08:07 - But as you know

08:08 - in a camera you're

08:09 - you're right up there

08:10 - so any little thing

08:11 - you do is magnify.

08:15 - Yes that that always

08:16 - becomes a problem

08:17 - because now we

08:18 - schedule remote arguments

08:20 - if the lawyer asks for them we

08:21 - schedule them on a separate day.

08:23 - And and sometimes

08:24 - we find out that

08:25 - the lawyer has

08:26 - scheduled something else.

08:28 - Or

08:29 - actually forgets

08:30 - argument court.

08:32 - So.

08:33 - At least one new in

08:34 - person they have to sign in

08:36 - and

08:36 - and there's a little more

08:38 - notice ahead of time.

08:39 - If a lawyers kind of traffic.

08:41 - They usually will calling

08:42 - from their cell phone

08:44 - and let our court crier know.

08:46 - But.

08:46 - What has happened in

08:47 - the past with availability is.

08:50 - If the lawyer has the cell

08:52 - phone turned completely off.

08:54 - And

08:55 - there's nobody in the

08:56 - office to answer the phone.

08:58 - Or it goes to voicemail

09:00 - and we all just sitting there

09:02 - we we can't get through.

09:03 - To say

09:04 - what's the problem can we

09:05 - help you how can we do this

09:07 - and

09:08 - I want to point out one of

09:09 - the mentioned problems.

09:11 - Vast majority of lawyers doing

09:12 - great they're working harder to

09:14 - and.

09:15 - I can tell you from my

09:16 - personal experience

09:17 - a lot of lawyers

09:18 - have said afterwards.

09:20 - They enjoy doing remote session.

09:22 - It's safe client money.

09:24 - Travel time

09:25 - sitting in court

09:26 - waiting for their turn.

09:28 - They can get right back to work

09:30 - and.

09:31 - So

09:31 - it has a lot of advantages.

09:35 - Well I

09:36 - think one of the ones I

09:37 - just mentioned is travel it

09:39 - cuts down everybody's

09:40 - travel and travel expenses.

09:42 - And in a way.

09:44 - When we having an

09:45 - individual argument.

09:47 - With because of the cameras

09:48 - we said before

09:49 - the cameras close.

09:51 - It's it's a little bit more

09:52 - of an intimate setting

09:53 - professional

09:54 - but an

09:54 - intimate setting.

09:56 - And everybody feels

09:57 - maybe more connected.

10:00 - And

10:00 - also I should point

10:01 - out when we're

10:02 - talking about remote arguments

10:04 - and

10:05 - it is actually against the law

10:07 - to record one of our

10:08 - arguments record

10:09 - anything to do with

10:11 - our remote arguments

10:12 - but I think the major advantage

10:14 - again.

10:15 - It's just to cut down on.

10:17 - On a lot of the costs

10:19 - that would normally

10:21 - occur to the lawyers

10:21 - and even to the judges.

10:22 - Because I live in northeastern

10:23 - Pennsylvania so when I.

10:25 - Go to court in Philly

10:26 - Harrisburg Pittsburgh you know.

10:28 - I've travel costs hotel

10:29 - meals and so on

10:31 - and over the course

10:32 - of time that that saves

10:34 - a lotta money.

10:35 - What impact have remote

10:36 - sessions had an accessibility.

10:39 - On how how do you mean

10:40 - accessibility to

10:41 - the courts I could

10:42 - have someone said

10:43 - it simplifies things

10:44 - but on the other

10:45 - there are people that

10:46 - economically or

10:46 - disadvantage that don't

10:47 - necessarily have

10:48 - access to broadband.

10:50 - That's

10:50 - that's true and we

10:51 - try we try to help

10:52 - with that and I should

10:53 - also point out when

10:54 - lawyers come.

10:55 - Or staff come

10:56 - in-person the court.

10:59 - During the hide it pandemic.

11:00 - They had to call

11:01 - ahead of time to make

11:02 - sure that the door

11:03 - would be answered.

11:05 - We have staff.

11:07 - Coming in

11:08 - but it's very restricted

11:10 - and to protect

11:11 - everybody's safety.

11:12 - So with accessibility

11:14 - if people let

11:14 - US know we work

11:15 - with them on that.

11:17 - Maybe they could go to a library

11:19 - or so where where they can.

11:21 - Access the the

11:22 - Internet but we always

11:23 - are willing to help

11:24 - pro se litigants.

11:26 - In that respect.

11:27 - Do you foresee a time

11:28 - when remote access

11:29 - to proceedings may

11:30 - be extended to other

11:31 - areas of the justice system.

11:33 - I think so and I

11:34 - think it has been and.

11:36 - As we were talking

11:37 - before I've spoken with.

11:39 - Some of the PR resident

11:40 - judges throughout

11:41 - the trial courts

11:43 - and

11:44 - and and there there's

11:45 - a belief that there's

11:46 - just going to be.

11:48 - It's

11:48 - it's here to stay now

11:49 - jury trials.

11:51 - Almost everyone says

11:52 - they're going to remain.

11:54 - In person however possible and

11:56 - help the jurors

11:57 - in certain county

11:58 - and some of the other

11:59 - counties the

12:00 - jury I actually sit.

12:02 - Throughout the courtroom

12:03 - and they have separate screens.

12:05 - Put up.

12:05 - So that the jurors

12:06 - are comfortable

12:08 - and

12:08 - in pike county to

12:09 - bench trials or or live

12:11 - but in Monroe county.

12:13 - The bench trials

12:14 - that's a trial by judge

12:16 - and our

12:17 - remote.

12:18 - A lot of the things

12:19 - involving a prison inmates.

12:21 - Are remote.

12:22 - Arraignments can now be remote

12:24 - talking about more

12:25 - parole hearings remote.

12:27 - And.

12:28 - Most criminal trials and.

12:30 - Still pretty much have to be.

12:33 - Virtual.

12:34 - And

12:35 - some of the judges say that when

12:36 - they're doing things

12:37 - involving children.

12:39 - They want to do it

12:40 - live so they could

12:41 - really observe the child

12:43 - but some of the domestic

12:44 - relations protection from abuse.

12:46 - There being virtual.

12:48 - And.

12:49 - Who knows what two thousand

12:50 - and twenty two is

12:51 - going to bring but

12:52 - I think

12:52 - people have to just get more

12:54 - used to the remote sessions.

12:56 - As we're heading

12:57 - into early twenty twenty

12:58 - two what are your

12:59 - expectations for what

13:00 - Pennsylvania

13:00 - courts will look like.

13:02 - Regarding remote

13:03 - vs in-person sessions.

13:05 - Well as.

13:06 - As mentioned before

13:07 - chief justice baron.

13:09 - President charged

13:10 - panola for more accordion

13:11 - and supreme court

13:12 - elect president.

13:14 - Commonwealth

13:14 - court Kevin b Robson.

13:15 - They are all working together

13:18 - to make sure.

13:19 - That lawyers.

13:21 - Judges.

13:22 - Litigants said everybody's

13:23 - getting their day in court

13:25 - and that their rights

13:26 - are being protected

13:27 - and.

13:28 - So.

13:29 - It's it's hard to say

13:30 - what's going to happen in.

13:32 - In early two thousand and twenty

13:33 - two because we

13:34 - are all a variance

13:35 - but our courts are

13:36 - we're all paying attention

13:38 - to what's going on

13:39 - in the trial courts.

13:40 - And doing whatever

13:41 - we can to keep

13:42 - keep a justice.

13:44 - Going.

13:45 - Keep justice going.

13:47 - I want to mention

13:48 - we all appreciate what.

13:49 - What pcn does.

13:51 - With protecting the

13:52 - public's right to know and.

13:54 - That continued commitment that

13:55 - that's just very

13:56 - helpful to everybody.

13:58 - Such crass Stevens

13:59 - thank you for joining US

14:00 - my pleasure thank you.