00:03 - CLOSED CAPTIONING FUNDED BY PCN

00:17 - >>> GOVERNOR THORNBURGH, WHEN WE

00:20 - LAST LEFT OFF YOU WERE

00:22 - UNDERSECRETARY-GENERAL EVER THE

00:23 - UNITED NATIONS.

00:23 - WHAT DID YOU DO ONCE YOU LEFT

00:25 - THE U.N.?

00:26 - >> AFTER 25 YEARS OFF AND ON IN

00:29 - PUBLIC LIFE, I RETURN TO THE LAW

00:31 - FIRM WHERE I STARTED MY CAREER,

00:35 - AND K & L GATES HERE IN THE

00:37 - WASHINGTON, D.C. OFFICE.

00:38 - THAT WAS 1994.

00:40 - AND REALLY MARKED THE BEGINNING

00:42 - OF MY THIRD CAREER.

00:43 - I'D HAD A CAREER AS A LAW

00:47 - ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL WITH THE

00:49 - FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SERVING UNDER

00:50 - FIVE PRESIDENTS AND THE

00:51 - DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

00:52 - I HAD A CAREER SEEKING AND

00:55 - SOMETIMES HOLDING ELECTED PUBLIC

00:58 - OFFICE.

00:58 - MOST RECENTLY AS THE GOVERNOR OF

01:01 - PENNSYLVANIA, AND I WAS TRYING

01:02 - TO GO BACK TO WHERE I STARTED.

01:04 - SO I RETURNED TO THE LAW FIRM IN

01:06 - 1994 AND BEGAN MY THIRD CAREER.

01:08 - >> IF I COULD BACK UP A HAIR.

01:10 - THERE WAS A POINT IN 1993 WHERE

01:12 - YOU PURSUED THE ROLE OF BASEBALL

01:14 - COMMISSIONER AS WELL.

01:16 - WAS THAT SOMETHING YOU ALWAYS

01:21 - WANT TO DO?

01:21 - WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

01:22 - >> I ALWAYS LOVED THE GAME.

01:24 - MY BELOVED PITTSBURGH PIRATES,

01:28 - UPs AND DOWNS, RECENTLY DOWNs, I

01:33 - WAS INTERVIEWED FOR THE JOB BY

01:35 - THE OWNERS' COMMITTEE AND WAITED

01:36 - AND WAITED AND WAITED, AND THEY

01:40 - FINALLY -- THEY DIDN'T MAKE AN

01:43 - APPOINTMENT AT THAT TIME,

01:46 - FINALLY APPOINTED ONE OF THEIR

01:48 - OWN.

01:49 - I WAS QUITE EXCITED ABOUT THAT

01:51 - AND ENJOYED THE CHANCE TO TALK

01:53 - TO THE OWNERS ABOUT THE GAME

01:54 - BECAUSE I HAD BEEN A GOOD FRIEND

01:56 - OF THE BASEBALL COMMISSIONER

01:58 - THAT I ADMIRED MOST.

01:59 - HE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF MY ALMA

02:02 - MATER, YALE UNIVERSITY BEFORE HE

02:04 - BECAME BASEBALL COMMISSIONER,

02:05 - AND, OF COURSE, BEING A STUDENT

02:06 - OF THE GAME I KNEW THE HISTORY

02:07 - OF ALL THE COMMISSIONERS AND

02:09 - THINGS.

02:10 - THAT WAS SOMEWHAT INTRIGUING.

02:12 - THAT PROSPECT.

02:13 - BUT IT CRASHED AND BURNED AND I

02:15 - BECAME A FAN ONCE AGAIN.

02:16 - >> IN RETURNING TO YOUR LAW

02:18 - PRACTICE, HOW DID YOU BALANCE

02:21 - RETURNING TO PRACTICE LAW WITH

02:22 - OTHER OUTSIDE INTERESTS THAT YOU

02:23 - MIGHT HAVE HAD?

02:24 - I. KNEW WHEN I CAME BACK TO THE

02:26 - LAW FIRM THAT I REALLY WASN'T

02:28 - GOING TO BE PURSUING MY PRACTICE

02:32 - FULL-TIME.

02:32 - I TOLD MY COLLEAGUES WHO WERE

02:35 - MOST GRACIOUS IN WELCOMING ME

02:36 - BACK, I THINK I HAD FIVE OR SIX

02:40 - SEPARATE OCCASIONS FOR PUBLIC

02:43 - OPPORTUNITIES BUT THOUGHT I

02:46 - COULD BE OF USE AND SPEND MAYBE

02:47 - 60% OF MY TIME ON THE FIRM'S

02:49 - PRACTICE, AND ITS CLIENTS, AND

02:50 - THEN THE BALANCE I WANTED FREE

02:53 - TO DO SPEAKING, WRITING AND

02:55 - PURSUING PROJECTS OF MY OWN I

02:57 - DEVELOPED OVER RTD YEARS.

02:59 - THEY WERE AGREEABLE THAT AND IT

03:02 - WORKED OUT EXTREMELY WELL.

03:05 - I'VE HAD ALMOST 20 YEARS OF THAT

03:06 - AND IT'S BEEN A GREAT JOY FOR

03:08 - ME.

03:08 - WONDERFUL PEOPLE TO WORK WITH.

03:10 - THE FIRM HAS GROWN AND

03:11 - PROSPERED.

03:12 - IT'S BEEN FUN TO BE PART OF

03:14 - THAT.

03:14 - >> TALK A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR ROLE

03:15 - WITH THE INTERNATIONAL

03:16 - REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE.

03:17 - >> WELL, THE INTERNATIONAL

03:19 - REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE IS ONE OF

03:20 - TWO ENTIIES ESTABLISHED TO

03:27 - PROMOTE THE ROOM OF LAW AND

03:29 - DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD.

03:30 - WHILE ONE IS REPUBLICAN, ONE

03:32 - DEMOCRAT THEY'RE BASICALLY

03:35 - NON-PARTISAN.

03:35 - THEY'RE REALLY TRING ADVANCE

03:39 - AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES

03:40 - IN COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.

03:43 - I'VE DONE PROJECTS FOR BOTH.

03:45 - FOR THE REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE IN

03:49 - THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION.

03:50 - AN OBSERVER.

03:51 - JOHN McCAIN AND I CO-CHAIR ADD

03:53 - DELEGATION THAT OBSERVED AT THE

03:55 - VERY FIRST ELECTIONS HELD AFTER

04:00 - THE SOVIET ERA IN RUSSIA AND IT

04:03 - WAS A FASCINATING PROPOSITION TO

04:06 - SEE HOW THEY RAN ELECTIONS AND

04:08 - WE THERE TO VERIFY THEY WERE ON

04:12 - THE UP AND UP.

04:13 - ALSO WORK FOR THE IRI IN UKRAINE

04:17 - AND THEN DID WORK FOR THE

04:19 - NATIONAL INSTITUTE IN CAMBODIA

04:22 - AND NIGERIA AND OTHER IRI

04:25 - PROJECT IN HONG KONG, MAJOR

04:27 - PROJECT, WHEN THEY TAKE OVER BY

04:29 - THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA,

04:31 - THAT OUTFIT TOOK PLACE.

04:32 - SO IT'S BEEN A GREAT OPPORTUNITY

04:33 - FOR ME TO TRAVEL AND SHARE SOME

04:37 - OF MY EXPERIENCES, AND

04:41 - PARTICIPATE IN THE GROWTH AND

04:46 - STRENGTHENING OF THE RULE OF LAW

04:48 - AND DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD.

04:49 - >> HOW DID YOU BECOME INVOLVED?

04:51 - >> I'M A REPUBLICAN.

04:53 - THE IRI IS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR

04:56 - REPUBLICANS WITH EXPERIENCE.

04:56 - I HAD DONE A LOT OF WORK AS

04:58 - ATTORNEY GENERAL IN

04:59 - INTERNATIONAL MATTERS.

05:00 - WE ESTABLISHED THE PRESENCE OF

05:01 - THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AROUND

05:01 - THE WORLD, AND I WAS INTERESTED

05:04 - IN IT, AND I HAVE FRIENDS AT IRI

05:07 - AND SO I ENDED UP DOING A LOT OF

05:10 - WORK FOR -- I HAVEN'T DONE MUCH

05:12 - LATELY, BUT IN THE EARLY YEARS I

05:14 - WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED.

05:16 - >> YOU INTROED YOUR VISIT WITH

05:20 - JOHN McCAIN AT THE ELECTION.

05:21 - HOW DID THAT COMPARE WITH YOUR

05:23 - EARLIER VISIT IN 1979?

05:26 - >> EXTRAORDINARY DIFFERENT.

05:27 - IN 1979 LEADING A DELEGATION

05:29 - FROM THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF

05:30 - JUSTICE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT

05:31 - WHAT WE CALLED RULE OF LAW 101.

05:33 - THE BASICS, BECAUSE THIS WAS A

05:35 - COUNTRY THAT HAD BEEN RULED

05:37 - FIRST BY THE CZARS AND THEN BY

05:39 - THESE SOVIET LEADERS.

05:40 - THEY HAD NO TRADITION OF

05:43 - DEMOCRACY.

05:43 - NO RULE OF LAW TRADITION, AND SO

05:46 - THAT WAS REALLY KIND OF LAYING

05:48 - THE GROUNDWORK, AND THE

05:50 - EXPERIENCE OF THE TWO ELECTION

05:52 - CAMPAIGNS REALLY WAS KIND OF

05:54 - SEEING HOW THIS WORKED IN

05:56 - PRACTICE.

05:56 - SINCE THAT TIME I'VE KEPT UP A

05:58 - VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH A

06:00 - LOT OF MY FRIENDS IN THE RUSSIAN

06:02 - FEDERATION WORKING ON

06:04 - REFORMATTERS.

06:08 - -- REFORMATTERS.

06:09 - I WAS OVER THERE MEET WITH

06:11 - LEADERS OF THE DUMA TO TALK HOW

06:13 - THEIR CRIMINAL LAW WORKED, AND

06:15 - THEY HAVE SOME OF THE SAME

06:16 - PROBLEMS WE DO, AND THEY

06:18 - APPRECIATED THE FACT THAT THEY

06:18 - WERE NOW GRAPPLING WITH ISSUES

06:21 - THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE COME UP.

06:23 - THEY'VE STILL GOT A LONG WAY TO

06:25 - GO AND THEY'RE THE FIRST TO

06:26 - ADMIT IT, BUT THE RUSSIAN

06:28 - FEDERATION IS A MAJOR PRESENCE

06:29 - IN THE WORLD, AND IT'S BEHOOVES

06:31 - US TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO HELP

06:33 - THEM ACHIEVE THESE KINDS OF

06:35 - GOALS.

06:36 - >> NOW IN 1995 YOU AND YOUR WIFE

06:38 - GINNY VISITED KOREA DISCUSSING

06:41 - DISABILITIES AND THE ISSUE OF

06:43 - RELIGION.

06:44 - TALK ABOUT THAT AND WHAT YOUR

06:46 - OMPGS OBSERVATIONS WERE DURING

06:47 - THAT VISIT?

06:48 - >> A FRIEND, EXTRAORDINARY HUMAN

06:51 - BEING.

06:51 - A GRADUATE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF

06:53 - PITTSBURGH, GOT HIS Ph.D.

06:55 - DEGREE.

06:56 - WE MET WHEN THEY WAS THERE AND

06:58 - HAS SINCE BECOME THE WORLDWIDE

07:00 - LEADER IN DISABILITY LEADERS.

07:01 - HIS DISABILITY, HE'S TOTALLY

07:04 - BLIND.

07:04 - BLINDED AT AN EARLY AGE IN A

07:06 - SOCCER GAME.

07:07 - AT THAT TIME, THE KOREAN SOCIETY

07:11 - WAS NOT HOSPITABLE TO THOSE IN

07:14 - THE SOCIETY.

07:17 - HE BROKE A LOT OF GROUND.

07:19 - TO THIS DATE, AN ADVOCATE.

07:25 - GINNY, AS SHE IS AT THIS TIME,

07:29 - MAKE SURE THEY HAVE HOUSES OF

07:32 - WORSHIP, FREEDOM OF FAITH AND

07:34 - BREAK DOWN NOT ONLY PHYSICAL

07:36 - BARRIERS BUT ATTITUDE NATURAL

07:40 - PREVENTING PEOPLE PRACTICES

07:43 - THEIR FAITH IN CHURCHES OF ALL

07:46 - RELIGIONS.

07:46 - WE MADE TWO PRESENTATIONS TO THE

07:48 - DOCTOR AND A WONDERFUL

07:49 - EXPERIENCE.

07:50 - KOREA HAS A HUGE CHRISTIAN

07:55 - POPULATION, AND A HUGE

07:59 - PRESBYTERIAN OPERATION,

08:00 - RELIGIOUS GROUP WHICH IS WHAT

08:01 - GINNY PRACTICES IN.

08:03 - SO SHE FELT RIGHT AT HOME, AND

08:05 - IT'S AMAZING TO SEE THE KINDS OF

08:08 - PROGRESS THAT'S BEEN MADE IN

08:09 - THIS WHOLE DISABILITY AREA.

08:11 - WHEN I WAS AT THE U.N., WE

08:15 - WORKED FOR THE FIRST TIME TO

08:19 - BRING TOGETHER LEADERS IN

08:20 - DISABILITY WORK FROM MEMBER

08:21 - COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND

08:23 - THAT WAS IN 1993, AND SINCE THAT

08:29 - TIME THERE HAD BEEN A U.N.

08:30 - CONVENTION ADOPTED FOR ALL

08:33 - MEMBERS HAVING TO DO WITH

08:35 - DISABILITY RIGHTS.

08:36 - LARGELY STRUCTURED ON THE SAME

08:39 - BASIS AS OUR AMERICANS WITH DISA

08:41 - LOTS ACT.

08:43 - SO IT WAS TERRITORY WHERE GINNY

08:44 - AND I FELT AT HOME, AND SHE'S --

08:47 - I WAS JUST VERY PROUD OF THE

08:49 - WORK SHE'S DONE.

08:50 - SHE'S A WORLDWIDE LEADER IN THAT

08:53 - EFFORT.

08:54 - ECUMENICAL EFFORT.

08:55 - WE EVEN HAD A HUGE CONFERENCE AT

08:57 - THE VATICAN IN ROME.

09:00 - OPEN TO ALL FAITHS WHEN JOHN

09:04 - POPE PAUL WAS IN THE PAPACY, AND

09:07 - SHE COULD, AND I COULD, WE COULD

09:08 - TELL STORIES FOR QUITE SOME TIME

09:09 - ABOUT THE PROGRESS THAT'S BEEN

09:12 - MADE WITH REGARD TO PEOPLE WITH

09:14 - DISABILITIES.

09:15 - A LOT OF WORK STILL TO BE DONE,

09:17 - BUT THERE'S AT LEAST IMPORTANT

09:19 - MARKERS LAID DOWN FOR DISA LOT

09:20 - RIGHTS AROUND THE WORLD.

09:22 - >> TELL US A STORY.

09:24 - GIVE US AN EXAMPLE HOW YOU

09:25 - NOTICED THAT PALPABLE CHANGE IN

09:27 - OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD

09:28 - REGARDING ATTITUDES TOWARDS

09:29 - PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES?

09:30 - >> A LOT OF THE CHANGE COMES TO

09:33 - YOU VISUALLY.

09:33 - YOU SEE CURB CUTS FOR PEOPLE

09:40 - WITH WHEELCHAIRS.

09:41 - YOU SEE BRAILLE ON ATM MACHINES

09:45 - FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE VISUAL

09:46 - PROBLEM.

09:47 - YOU GO TO A PUBLIC MEETING,

09:48 - THERE'S A PERSON SIGNING THE

09:49 - STAGE THERE FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T

09:52 - HEAR.

09:52 - THESE ARE IMPORTANT CHANGES THAT

09:55 - SEND A SIGNAL OF WELCOME TO

09:57 - PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, THAT

09:58 - THEY'RE NO LONGER EXCLUDED FROM

10:00 - THESE EVERY DAY ACTIVITIES.

10:03 - MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT,

10:04 - HOWEVER, AND I THINK THE MAJOR

10:06 - THRUST OF GINNY'S WORK IS TO

10:08 - CHANGE PEOPLE THE ATTITUDES NAP

10:10 - IT'S NO LONGER LOOKED UPON AS A

10:13 - SIGN OF SHAME IN A FAMILY.

10:14 - I MEAN, WE FORGET 50 YEARS AGO

10:17 - WHEN OUR SON PETER WAS BADLY

10:22 - INJURED AND SUFFERED PERMANENT

10:26 - DISABILITY, NONE OF THE LAWS

10:26 - WERE ON THE BOOKS, AND PEOPLE

10:28 - HAD A TENDENCY TO HIDE PEOPLE

10:32 - AWAY WHEN THEY HAD A DISABILITY.

10:33 - AND THAT'S A VERY SHORT PERIOD

10:35 - OF TIME.

10:36 - NOWADAYS, OF COURSE, THE

10:37 - ATTITUDES ARE CHANGING.

10:39 - THE ONE AREA THAT I THINK THAT

10:41 - WE ALL, IN THE DISABILITY

10:44 - MOVEMENT ARE CONSCIENCE OF IS

10:44 - THE NEED TO PROVIDE MORE IN THE

10:46 - WAY OF EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES,

10:46 - BUT CONSIDERING THAT THE

10:50 - AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT

10:51 - WAS PASSED ONLY IN 1990, AND

10:54 - SENT A SIGNAL OF CONCERN.

10:55 - I THINK THAT WAS THE -- NOT SO

10:58 - MUCH THE INDIVIDUAL PROVISIONS

10:59 - OF THE ACT.

10:59 - IT'S THE FACT THAT THE U.S.

11:04 - MEMORIALIZED ITS CONCERN ABOUT

11:05 - PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVING

11:08 - ENTREE INTO THE MAINSTREAM

11:10 - AMERICAN LIFE.

11:10 - THAT'S AN MACHINE MINUTE WE CAN

11:11 - ALL BE PROUD OF.

11:14 - >> SHIFTING A LOT TO THE VARIOUS

11:16 - ROLES YOU MEPD TALKED ABOUT

11:17 - VISITING MANY COUNTRIES TO

11:18 - DISCUSS DEMOCRACY, FIGHTING

11:20 - AGAINST TERRORISM.

11:21 - >> YES.

11:22 - >> DO YOU NOTICE COMMON THREADS

11:25 - IN GUATEMALA, SYRIA, ET CETERA,

11:28 - THAT DON'T ENJOY THE SAME

11:30 - DEMOCRACY THAT THE UNITED STATES

11:30 - DOES?

11:31 - >> THE CHALLENGES ARE SIMILAR IN

11:32 - SOME RESPECTS.

11:35 - THE BIGGEST BARRIER TO FULL

11:41 - ENJOYMENT OF WHAT WE REGARD AS

11:43 - DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND THE

11:44 - RULE EVER LAW IS THE LACK OF A

11:47 - TRADITION IN THOSE COUNTRIES

11:48 - THAT HONORS AND RESPECTS

11:50 - DEMOCRACY AND THE RULE OF LAW.

11:52 - AND THAT DOESN'T COME EASY.

11:55 - IN MANY COUNTRIES IT'S

11:57 - COMPOUNDED BY RAMPANT

11:58 - CORRUPTION.

11:59 - WHERE PEOPLE WHO, IN PUBLIC

12:02 - OFFICE ABUSE THAT OFFICE.

12:05 - AND THAT ROBS PEOPLE OF THEIR

12:08 - FAITH IN THEIR GOVERNANCE AND

12:09 - PROMOTES LAWLESSNESS IN MANY

12:10 - RESPECTS.

12:12 - SO IT'S A -- I THINK IT'S A

12:15 - MISTAKE TO KIND OF GENERALIZE

12:17 - ABOUT THAT.

12:17 - THAT IS TO SAY, ATTEMPT TO SAY,

12:22 - THIS IS THE IT HAS TO BE.

12:24 - WE AMERICANS TEND TO BE THAT WAY

12:27 - BECAUSE WE HONESTLY BELIEVE OUR

12:28 - SYSTEM IS THE BEST.

12:29 - WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THERE ARE

12:30 - TRADITIONS AND ATTITUDES IN

12:33 - OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WE HAVE TO

12:34 - ACCOMMODATE.

12:35 - SO IT IS AMONG THE MOST

12:37 - FASCINATING OF THE PROJECTS THAT

12:38 - I'VE UNDERTAKEN IN THE LAST 15

12:39 - YEARS OR SO.

12:41 - WORKING IN DIFFERENT CULTURES.

12:43 - OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T SPEAK THE LAG

12:46 - LANGUAGE.

12:48 - I'D HAVE TO SPEAK A LOT OF

12:50 - LANGUAGES TO SPEAK ON THAT

12:51 - SCORE, BUT TO RELATE PERSON TO

12:52 - PERSON WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE

12:54 - DESPERATELY INTERESTED IN REAL

12:55 - REFORM.

12:56 - AND THERE'S SO MANY HEROES

12:57 - AROUND THE WORLD.

12:58 - SO MANY PEOPLE, MEN AND WOMEN IN

13:05 - THESE COUNTRY WHO LITERALLY PUT

13:06 - THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE TO FIGHT

13:06 - FOR THESE PRINCIPLES AND THE

13:07 - ENJOYMENT OF HUMAN RIGHTS WITHIN

13:09 - THEIR COUNTRIES.

13:10 - FASCINATING STORIES.

13:10 - >> NOW, SHIFTING SLIGHTLY.

13:12 - YOU VISITED SEVERAL JUSTICE

13:14 - REFORMS FOLLOWING THE RELEASE OF

13:16 - THE 1991 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

13:17 - REPORT.

13:18 - CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE ABOUT

13:19 - THOSE?

13:20 - >> I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED

13:23 - IN TORT REFORM OR CIVIL JUSTICE

13:24 - REFORM.

13:26 - TO SEE THAT WE HAVE A LEVEL

13:31 - PLAYING FIELD IN LAWSUITS THAT

13:32 - ARE BROUGHT.

13:33 - WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST 50

13:38 - YEARS OR SO SOME REALLY, I

13:43 - THINK, OUTRAGEOUS EXAMPLES OF

13:45 - EXCESS ISN'T THE LAW.

13:46 - THAT WE'VE GOTTEN JURY AWARDS

13:51 - THAT HAVE GONE OFF THE MAP,

13:53 - PARTICULARLY PUNITIVE DAMAGE

13:54 - AWARDS.

13:54 - WE'VE SEEN LIABILITY EXTENDED TO

13:57 - PEOPLE WHO HAVE ONLY A

14:01 - PERIPHERAL INVOLVEMENT WITH A

14:02 - WRONGFUL ACT.

14:02 - WE'VE SEEN THE ABUSE OF EXPERT

14:08 - WITNESSES WHO WERE OFTEN PAID TO

14:11 - GIVE THEIR TESTIMONY, AND,

14:15 - FRANKLY, IT'S A PROBLEM THAT

14:17 - PERSISTS TO THIS DAY.

14:19 - WE HAD SOME REAL SUCCESS IN SOME

14:22 - OF THE STATES WHERE THE REFORMS

14:24 - HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN, BUT BY AND

14:27 - LARGE, THE OVERALL TASK OF TORT

14:29 - REFORM IS AN UNFINISHED ONE.

14:31 - WE GOT VERY CLOSE IN 1995 WHEN

14:32 - THE PRODUCT LIABILITY REFORM ACT

14:36 - WAS PASSED BY THE CONGRESS, AND

14:38 - IT TOOK A LOT OF EFFORT TO GET

14:40 - THAT ON THE BIPARTISAN BASIS,

14:42 - BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE PRESIDENT

14:46 - VETOED IT AT THE TIME.

14:47 - AND I HATE TO BE A CYNIC, BUT IT

14:50 - WAS VISITED BY TRIAL LAWYERS WHO

14:53 - HAD TRIBUTED SUBSTANTIALLY TO

14:55 - HIS CAMPAIGN.

14:56 - SO WE SAW A STRAIGHT LINE

14:57 - CONNECTION THERE, BUT BE THAT AS

14:58 - IT MAY, I MEAN, THAT'S THE WORLD

15:00 - WE LIVE IN, AND THERE'S A LOT OF

15:03 - PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING

15:08 - INCESSANTLY AND SOME STRIDES

15:10 - HAVE BEEN MADE IN PENNSYLVANIA,

15:12 - OF ALL PLACES.

15:13 - JUST A VERY STRONG STATE.

15:15 - TO BE QUITE HONEST, TORT REFORM

15:17 - HAS HELPED CONSIDERABLY BY THE

15:18 - FACT SOME OF THE MOST

15:20 - HIGH-PROFILE TRIAL LAWYERS

15:24 - PRACTICING IN THESE PERSONAL

15:25 - INJURY CASES HAVE BEEN CONVICTED

15:27 - OF SERIOUS CRIMES AND GONE TO

15:28 - JAIL, AND I THINK THAT'S RAISED

15:30 - THE CRED ABILITY OF THOSE

15:32 - INTERESTED IN REFORM.

15:33 - >> YOU MAKE A COMMENT IN YOUR

15:35 - BIOGRAPHY OFTEN THE TYPICAL

15:36 - RESPONSE AFTER AN INCIDENT

15:37 - OCCURS IS, WHO DO I SUE?

15:39 - HOW DO YOU CHANGE ATTITUDES ON

15:41 - THAT?

15:42 - >> RIGHT.

15:42 - WE'RE A VERY CONTENTIOUS

15:45 - COUNTRY.

15:46 - WE'RE LITIGATION HAPPY, AND AS

15:48 - YOU SAY.

15:50 - WHENEVER ANYTHING GOES WRONG,

15:51 - SOMETHING GOES WRONG, SOMETHING

15:53 - HAPPEN, SOMEBODY'S HURT,

15:54 - SOMETHING BREAKS, OFTEN THE

15:55 - FIRST QUESTION IS WHO DO I SUE?

15:57 - AND THAT'S NOT REALLY A HEALTHY

15:59 - RESPONSE TO OUR SOCIETY.

16:01 - SO I THINK THAT THOSE ARE US

16:04 - WHO -- HARKIN BACK TO THE ADVICE

16:12 - OF ONE OF OUR GREATEST TRIAL

16:13 - LAWYERS EVER, ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

16:16 - WHEN IN PRACTICE, COUNSEL YOUR

16:18 - NEIGHBOR TO AVOID LITIGATION TO

16:20 - MAKE PEACE AND WORK OUT A

16:22 - COMPROMISE.

16:23 - AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT

16:25 - MORE OF THAT NOWADAYS IN TERMS

16:27 - OF MEDIATION AND ARBITRATION.

16:31 - I SEE IT ON AN UPWARD ARC.

16:34 - I THINK WE'RE REALLY -- IT'S

16:36 - BALANCED, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY

16:37 - PEOPLE ON THE DEFENSE SIDE ARE

16:39 - GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF

16:40 - EVERYTHING THEY CAN, BUT IT'S

16:42 - A -- IT IS A CONTENTIOUS AREA,

16:44 - BUT ONE I FEEL VERY POSITIVE

16:46 - ABOUT THESE DAYS.

16:47 - >> DO YOU THINK THAT 24-HOUR

16:50 - CYCLE THAT CHANGED PUBLIC

16:52 - PERCEPTION OF THE LAW?

16:53 - >> WELL, IT CERTAINLY CHANGED

16:55 - PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF EVERYTHING.

16:56 - THE 24-HOUR NEWS CYCLE IS

16:58 - PROBABLY THE BIGGEST SOCIAL

16:59 - CHANGE THAT'S TAKEN PLACE IN OUR

17:01 - COUNTRY IN THE LAST CENTURY.

17:03 - IT IS SIMPLY EXTRAORDINARY,

17:06 - BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS RIGHT IN

17:07 - YOUR FACE, AND IT'S RIGHT THERE

17:11 - IMMEDIATELY.

17:11 - VERY LITTLE TIME FOR REFLECTION.

17:15 - I OFTEN THOUGHT ABOUT PUBLIC

17:16 - LIFE AND THE ABILITY TO PUT

17:20 - TOGETHER YOUR THOUGHTS IN A WAY

17:21 - THAT WERE CONSISTENT WITH AN

17:24 - OVERALL PHILOSOPHY.

17:25 - WHEN GEORGE WASHINGTON LEFT

17:27 - MOUNT VERNON TO GO TO THE

17:32 - CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION IN

17:35 - 1787, HE GOT THERE BY RIDING A

17:36 - HORSE.

17:38 - AND IT TOOK HIM ABOUT FOUR, FIVE

17:41 - DAYS TO GO FROM MOUNT VERNON TO

17:42 - PHILADELPHIA.

17:44 - AND I THOUGHT, WHAT WAS HE DOING

17:45 - ALL OF THAT TIME?

17:46 - THINKING.

17:49 - ALL THE TIME, THINKING.

17:51 - SO THAT WHEN HE ARRIVED IN

17:53 - PHILADELPHIA, AS DID ALL OF HIS

17:54 - COLLEAGUES WHO CAME THE SAME

17:56 - WAY, THEY HAD SOME PRETTY FULLY

17:58 - FORMED IDEAS ABOUT WHERE THEY

17:59 - WANTED TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY.

18:02 - NOWADAYS YOU GO BY JET.

18:06 - YOU'RE -- LIMOUSINED INTO A

18:07 - PARTICULAR SITE.

18:10 - YOU HAVE TO RESPOND WITH A

18:12 - CAMERA AND A MICROPHONE, WITH

18:14 - ALL DUE RESPECT, IN YOUR FACE,

18:16 - AND THAT TIME FOR SOBER

18:18 - REFLECTION, FORMING YOUR

18:21 - THOUGHTS, IS MUCH MORE AT A

18:23 - PREMIUM NOWADAYS AND THAT IT WAS

18:25 - AND EXACERBATED BY THIS 24-HOUR

18:29 - NEWS CYCLE WHERE EVERYTHING IS

18:30 - IMMEDIATELY OUT THERE IN YOUR

18:32 - FACE.

18:32 - >> YOU WERE A REGULAR

18:33 - CONTRIBUTOR ON CNN DURING THE

18:35 - O.J. SIMPSON TRIAL AND

18:36 - AFTERWARDS.

18:37 - DO YOU THINK THAT PARTICULAR

18:37 - CASE PLAY ADD PIVOTAL ROLE IN

18:40 - THE BEGINNING OF CHANGING

18:41 - ATTITUDES ON THE LAW?

18:42 - >> I THINK THAT CASE TAUGHT US A

18:43 - LOT OF THINGS.

18:47 - IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARILY WIDELY

18:49 - COVERED CASE.

18:50 - I THINK WHEN WE HAD THAT -- WE

18:55 - HAD A PROGRAM, "THE LARRY KING"

18:58 - SHOW ENLISTED A GROUP OF US TO

18:59 - COMMENT ON THE CASE, AND I THINK

19:01 - WE DID 40 OR 50 OF THESE KIND OF

19:05 - REFLECTIONS ON THE CASE DURING

19:06 - THE TIME, BECAUSE IT WAS

19:09 - INTEREST TO THE PEOPLE, AND THE

19:10 - GROUP WE HAD WERE ALL LAWYERS

19:12 - AND JUMPS, SO WE COULD LOOK AT

19:14 - IT THROUGH THAT PRISM, AND TRY

19:15 - TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT WAS

19:17 - GOING ON IN THE COURTROOM.

19:19 - BECAUSE THAT WAS FULLY

19:21 - TELEVISED.

19:21 - I HAPPEN TO BE A SUPPORTER OF

19:23 - CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM, BY THE

19:24 - WAY, BUT IN THIS CASE IT

19:26 - REQUIRED SOME ELABORATION AND

19:27 - SOME EXPLANATION, AND I ENJOYED

19:32 - THAT THOROUGHLY.

19:32 - IT WAS A GREAT CHALLENGE, BUT I

19:35 - LIKE TO THINK WE CONTRIBUTED TO

19:37 - PEOPLE'S BETTER UNDERSTANDING.

19:38 - BUT THERE WERE SOME LESSONS THAT

19:40 - CAME OUT OF THAT CASE, AND

19:43 - LESSONS REALLY WERE PRETTY

19:47 - STARK.

19:47 - ONE, YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN

19:49 - YOU HAD LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL

19:54 - WHOSE WERE RACIALLY MOTIVATED IN

19:56 - THEIR ACTIVITY, THAT SHOULD BE

19:59 - TOTALLY IMPERMISSIBLE.

20:00 - NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT'S WRONG BUT

20:01 - IT AFFECTS THE CASE.

20:03 - THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT

20:04 - DETECTIVE MARK FURMAN'S

20:08 - TESTIMONY WAS DISCREDITED BY THE

20:10 - FACT HE EXHIBITED THESE RACIAL

20:14 - TENDENCIES.

20:16 - SECONDLY, YOU SAW THE QUALITY OF

20:19 - THE WORK DONE IN CRIME

20:22 - LABORATORIES HAS TO BE ABOVE

20:25 - SUSPICION, AND THERE WAS ENOUGH

20:26 - WIGGLE ROOM THERE TO RAISE

20:28 - QUESTIONS ABOUT DNA.

20:29 - BUT THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS,

20:31 - THAT CASE SHOULD HAVE RESULTED

20:33 - IN A CONVICTION, BUT IT WAS NOT

20:34 - WELL TRIED.

20:35 - THE JUDGE LOST CONTROL OF THE

20:37 - CASE.

20:37 - IT WAS REALLY QUITE A DEBACLE,

20:40 - BUT LIVE AND LEARN, I THINK

20:41 - THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.

20:42 - TAKE THE LESSONS.

20:43 - I MENTIONED TELEVISING CASES.

20:44 - I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.

20:46 - FOR THIS REASON --

20:48 - I WAS IN THE O.J. SIMPSON

20:51 - COURTROOM AS A VISITOR, AND

20:53 - FRANKLY, IT WAS LIKE ANY OTHER

20:55 - CASE THAT I HAD, IN A COURTROOM

20:56 - THAT I TRIED A CASE IN.

20:58 - YOU DIDN'T NOTICE, THE CAMERA

21:00 - WAS NOT DISPLAYED PROMINENTLY.

21:03 - UNOBTRUSIVE UP THERE.

21:04 - AND THE REASON I FAVOR THAT KIND

21:07 - OF COVERAGE IS TWOFOLD.

21:09 - ONE, IT PRESENTS A MARVELOUS

21:11 - OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE

21:13 - ABOUT THE LEGAL SYSTEM.

21:14 - FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE.

21:16 - THEY SEE THE MISTAKES.

21:17 - THEY SEE THE GOOD AND THE BAD.

21:19 - SECONDLY, IT MAKES REAL THE

21:23 - GUARANTEE OF A PUBLIC TRIAL.

21:25 - THAT YOU'RE NOT JUST PUBLIC TO

21:28 - THE 50 OR 60 PEOPLE THAT CAN

21:29 - CROWD INTO A COURTROOM.

21:32 - BUT IT GUARANTEES THAT THE

21:34 - ENTIRE NATION, OR WHOMEVER

21:36 - CHOOSES TO WATCH, CAN HAVE

21:38 - ACCESS TO, IN REALTIME TO WHAT'S

21:39 - GOING ON IN A COURTROOM, AND

21:41 - THAT MAKES PEOPLE MORE

21:43 - ACCOUNTABLE.

21:43 - I THINK JUDGES, LAWYER,

21:45 - WITNESSES, ALL BEHAVE

21:47 - DIFFERENTLY, AND I THINK BETTER,

21:48 - WHEN THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE

21:50 - BEING WATCHED ON A PERPETUAL

21:56 - BASIS.

21:57 - NOW, I'M NOT SURE THAT MANY IN

22:01 - THE JEW ADDITIONAL BRANCH AGREE

22:03 - WITH THAT.

22:04 - I'VE FOUGHT WITH JUDGES IN

22:06 - PENNSYLVANIA, FOR EXAMPLE, OVER

22:07 - THIS, BUT THEY'RE TAKING STEPS

22:08 - NOW TO MAKE OUR COURTS

22:11 - ACCESSIBLE.

22:12 - YOU FOLKS KNOW THAT BETTER THAN

22:13 - I.

22:13 - BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS,

22:16 - BEFORE LONG WE'RE GOING TO HAVE

22:16 - THAT OPPORTUNITY, AND I THINK

22:19 - IT'S ALL FOR THE GOOD.

22:20 - >> LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE

22:22 - LAWSUITS THAT YOU ENCOUNTERED IN

22:24 - PRIVATE PRACTICE.

22:25 - YOU BECAME AN EXAMINER IN THE

22:29 - WORLDCOM BANKRUPTCY CASE.

22:29 - >> YES.

22:30 - >> TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

22:30 - >> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING,

22:31 - BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT I'D

22:33 - BEEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND HAD

22:35 - A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN TRYING

22:37 - CASES AND INVESTIGATING

22:39 - SITUATIONS, MY PRACTICE

22:41 - GRADUALLY CAME TO FOCUS ON WHAT

22:43 - I CALL TROUBLESHOOTING.

22:45 - THAT IS, LOOKING AT SITUATIONS

22:48 - WHICH REQUIRED SOME CAREFUL

22:52 - EXAMINATION ON A, AN INDEPENDENT

22:54 - BASIS.

22:55 - AND THE FIRST MAJOR CASE THAT I

22:56 - GOT INVOLVED IN WAS MY

22:58 - APPOINTMENT AS EXAMINER IN THE

23:01 - WORLDCOM BANKRUPT, WHICH AT THAT

23:03 - TIME WAS THE LARGEST BANKRUPTCY

23:05 - IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY.

23:08 - $11 BILLION IN ACCOUNTING FRAUD.

23:11 - THIS, OF COURSE, WAS RIGHT AT

23:13 - THE END EVER THE DOTCOM BUBBLE,

23:14 - AND I MUST SAY I WAS SHOCKED AND

23:19 - AMAZED BY WHAT WE FOUND IN THAT

23:22 - INVESTIGATION.

23:22 - IT BEGAN WITH EXAMINATION OF

23:23 - ACCOUNTING PRACTICES.

23:25 - HOW COULD THESE MISSTATEMENTS

23:27 - HAVE BEEN MADE.

23:28 - WHAT WAS THE REMEDY FOR THESE

23:30 - KINDS OF THING, BUT IT TURNED

23:32 - INTO, REALLY, TO OUR SHOCK AND

23:36 - AMAZEMENT, A PARADE OF

23:40 - WRONGDOING WITH RESPECT TO

23:40 - CORPORATE GOVERNANCE.

23:42 - THE PROCESS OF CORPORATE

23:44 - GOVERNANCE JUST BROKE DOWN.

23:45 - THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, THE

23:47 - CHIEF EXECUTIVES, THE AUDITORS,

23:52 - EVERYBODY WAS ASLEEP AT THE

23:53 - SWITCH.

23:57 - AND THESE FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES

23:59 - WERE NOT VERY SUBTLE.

24:00 - THEY WERE WHAT THEY CALLED

24:02 - TOP-DOWN ADJUSTMENTS.

24:03 - THEY JUST ARBITRARILY MOVED

24:06 - PARTICULAR ITEMS INTO CUBBYHOLES

24:07 - THAT MISSTATED THE EARNINGS OF

24:12 - THE COMPANY.

24:13 - THE REASON FOR THAT WAS THEY HAD

24:15 - TO KEEP THE EARNINGS UP HIGH TO

24:17 - MEET WALL STREET'S EXPECTATIONS

24:20 - BECAUSE THEY WERE FUELING AN

24:21 - AGGRESSIVE ACQUISITION PROGRAM

24:22 - BY ISSUES WORLDCOM STOCK.

24:25 - BUT THERE'S WERE LOTS OF OTHER

24:27 - THINGS THAT WERE STRANGE AND

24:28 - BIZARRE ABOUT THIS, TOO.

24:29 - THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS

24:31 - AUTHORIZED $400 MILLION IN LOANS

24:34 - TO BERNIE EBBERS, THE CHIEF

24:37 - EXECUTIVE OFFICER, OF WORLDCOM,

24:40 - WITHOUT ANY ADEQUATE COLLATERAL

24:42 - AND, REALLY, THE ACTIVITIES OF

24:44 - THE BOARD THROUGH THIS ENTIRE

24:46 - PROCESS WERE MUCH MORE IN A WAY

24:48 - OF A RUBBER STAMP THAN THE WAY

24:50 - OF INDEPENDENT JUDGMENT AND

24:52 - RECOGNITION OF FIDUCIARY

24:54 - RESPONSIBILITY THAT OUGHT TO BE

24:55 - WITH A BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

24:57 - ONE OTHER PLACE WE FOUND

24:58 - INADEQUACIES WAS IN THE MARKET

25:05 - ITSELF.

25:05 - THE SECURITIES ANALYST BY THE

25:07 - NAME OF JACK RUDMAN WHO KEPT

25:10 - PUMPING THE STOCK UP AND

25:12 - DESCRIBING WORLDCOM AS, RIGHT UP

25:13 - TO THE VERY BRINK, OF COLLAPSE

25:16 - OF THE COMPANY, TOUTING IT.

25:18 - HE WAS PAID BY HIS EMPLOYERS

25:20 - ABOUT $20 MILLION A YEAR AND GOT

25:21 - A HEALTHY SEVERANCE PAYMENT FOR

25:25 - TOTALLY MISREPRESENTING THE

25:29 - FINANCIAL STATUS OF THE COMPANY.

25:31 - NOW, UNFORTUNATELY, THESE KINDS

25:33 - OF CASES ARE FULL OF THOSE

25:35 - EXAMPLES.

25:36 - AND SOME OF THOSE WERE DEALT

25:38 - WITH IN THE PASSAGE ALMOST

25:39 - IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE

25:41 - WORLDCOM CASE OF THE

25:43 - SARBANES-OXLEY ACT, BUT RECENT

25:46 - PROBLEMS SHOW WE DIDN'T CURE ALL

25:47 - OF THOSE PROBLEM, BECAUSE THEY

25:49 - RECURRED.

25:49 - SO IT'S A PERVERSE ELEMENT OF

25:52 - HUMAN NATURE, ALWAYS SOMEBODY

25:53 - OUT THERE WHO CAN WORK THE

25:55 - SYSTEM TO THEIR FINANCIAL

25:56 - ADVANTAGE, AND WE ALL SUFFER

25:59 - FROM IT, BUT QUITE AN EYE

26:01 - OPENING EXPERIENCE FOR ME AND

26:02 - THE REPORT THAT WE DID WAS WELL

26:05 - E-RECEIVED AND I THINK MADE A

26:07 - REAL ADDITION TO IMPROVING

26:09 - CORPORATE GOVERNANCE.

26:10 - >> ARE THERE PARTICULAR

26:10 - INDIVIDUALS YOU PINPOINT AS

26:12 - RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COMPANY'S

26:13 - COLLAPSE OR TO YOU DO YOU SEE IT

26:17 - MORE AS EVERREACHING?

26:19 - >> MOVIE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY

26:20 - RESTED WITH THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE

26:23 - OFFICER, BERNARD EBBERS, HE WAS

26:25 - REALLY AT THE FOCAL POINT OF ALL

26:27 - OF IT, BECAUSE HE RAN THE PLACE.

26:29 - IT WAS AN EXTENSION OF HIM.

26:31 - HE'S NOW SERVING A CONSIDERABLE

26:34 - LENGTH OF FEDERAL

26:39 - PRISON.

26:39 - IT DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR HIM THAT

26:41 - WELL.

26:41 - FOR A TIME, WORLDCOM WAS RIDING

26:43 - HIGH.

26:43 - >> TALK IN DETAIL ABOUT THE

26:45 - REGULATIONS THAT CAME AS A

26:46 - RESULT OF THIS CASE.

26:46 - >> WELL, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT

26:49 - CAME OUT OF THE, THIS AND OTHER

26:52 - CASES THAT WERE SIMILAR ABOUT

26:57 - THE SAME TIME IN THE

26:59 - SARBANES-OXLEY ACT WERE DESIGNED

27:00 - TO PROMOTE GREATER TRANSPARENCY,

27:04 - NUMBER ONE.

27:05 - SECONDLY, MORE RESPONSIBILITY

27:08 - FOR ACCOUNTING IN A TIGHTER

27:11 - CONNECTION BETWEEN THE INTERNAL

27:13 - ACCOUNTANTS, THAT IS THE

27:15 - COMPANY'S ACCOUNTANTS AND THE

27:18 - OUTSIDE ACCOUNTANTS, WHO, WERE

27:21 - INDEPENDENT AUDITORS.

27:23 - A PROHIBITION OF THE TYPE OF

27:25 - MASSIVE LOANS THAT WERE MADE BY

27:25 - THE COMPANY TO MR. EBBERS, AND A

27:31 - GENERAL TIGHTENING OF THE RULES

27:33 - WITH RESPECT TO REPORTING AND

27:38 - ACCOUNTING.

27:38 - SO IT'S DIFFICULT, THOUGH.

27:42 - I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WHO

27:45 - PARTICIPATED IN THE DRAFTING OF

27:46 - THE SARBANES-OXLEY ACT FELT THAT

27:48 - THAT WAS GOING TO BE A PANACEA

27:50 - FOR SOLVING ALL THE FINANCIAL

27:52 - ILLS.

27:52 - IT WAS GOING TO ABOUT RESPONSE

27:54 - TO IMMEDIATE QUESTIONS THAT HAD

27:55 - COME UP IN THE COURSE OF THE

27:57 - CASE, BUT AS I SAID, YOU KNOW,

27:58 - IT WASN'T LONG BEFORE WE SAW

28:01 - OTHER KINDS OF IRREGULARITIES

28:03 - SNEAK INTO THE SYSTEM AND, OF

28:05 - COURSE, MOST PROMINENTLY, MOST

28:09 - RECENT MORTGAGE CRISIS, THE

28:10 - KINDS OF PRACTICES THERE.

28:12 - CERTAINLY NOW THEY'RE GOING TO

28:13 - GENERATE A NEW ROUND OF

28:14 - ACTIVITIES AND CONCERNS.

28:16 - >> IN TOTALLY SEPARATE CASE,

28:18 - ASKED TO INVESTIGATE THE

28:20 - MILITARY SERVICE OF FORMER

28:22 - PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH FOLLOWING

28:24 - A REPORT THAT BECAME QUITE

28:25 - CONTROVERSY.

28:26 - CAN YOU GIVE US A BACK GRUND

28:27 - STORY ON THAT?

28:28 - >> ANOTHER EYE-OPENER FOR ME.

28:30 - CBS HAD A REGULAR PROGRAM CALLED

28:37 - "60 MINUTES," WHICH IS WIDELY

28:39 - SUCCESSFUL AND WELL RECEIVED.

28:40 - THEY SPUN OFF A SISTER PROGRAM

28:42 - CALLED "60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY."

28:45 - WHICH WAS HOSTED BY DAN RATHER.

28:47 - IN THE RUN-UP TO THE 2004

28:51 - ELECTION, IN FACT, IN SEPTEMBER

28:52 - OF 2004, JUST A LITTLE MORE THAN

28:56 - A MONTH AND A HALF BEFORE THE

28:59 - ELECTION, CBS PUT ON THIS REPORT

29:00 - THAT THEY PURPORTED TO SHOW,

29:06 - PROVE, THAT PRESIDENT BUSH HAD

29:09 - BEHAVED BADLY DURING HIS TIME AS

29:10 - A PILOT IN THE TEXAS AIR

29:15 - NATIONAL GUARD EARLIER ON IN HIS

29:16 - CAREER.

29:18 - AND THAT WAS AN OLD STORY.

29:20 - THAT HAD BEEN OUT THERE FOR SOME

29:21 - TIME, AND HAD NOT CAUSED ANY

29:24 - REAL PROBLEM TO PRESIDENT BUSH,

29:25 - BUT IN THIS CASE, THEY HAD A

29:28 - SERIES OF DOCUMENTS THAT THEY

29:31 - CLAIMED HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM

29:32 - OFFICIAL TEXAS AIR NATIONAL

29:34 - GUARD FILES, WHICH WERE

29:37 - SUPPORTIVE OF IRREGULARITIES

29:38 - THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD

29:43 - COMMITTED, AND REALLY WERE QUITE

29:45 - SENSATIONAL.

29:45 - THE PROBLEM WAS THEY COULDN'T

29:46 - PROVE THE DOCUMENTS WERE REAL.

29:48 - THEY PUT THAT ON THE AIR,

29:50 - CLAIMED THEY WERE REAL, BUT VERY

29:54 - QUICKLY, THE LAWYERS AND OTHER

29:56 - EXPERTS OUT THERE IDENTIFIED THE

29:57 - FACT THAT THE TYPE USED IN THESE

30:02 - DOCUMENTS AND THE SPACING AND

30:03 - ALL OF THE KINDS OF ARCANE

30:08 - CHARACTERISTICS OF THE DOCUMENTS

30:10 - SHOWED THAT THEY COULDN'T HAVE

30:12 - POSSIBLY -- THEY'D BEEN PRODUCED

30:13 - AT THAT TIME.

30:14 - THEY WEREN'T IN EFFECT.

30:15 - SO FINALLY AFTER A TWO-WEEK

30:18 - PERIOD OF DEFENDING THIS REPORT,

30:21 - DAN RATHER WENT ON TV, SAID WE

30:23 - CAN'T ESTABLISH THE AUTHENTICITY

30:25 - OF THESE DOCUMENTS.

30:28 - AND, THEREFORE, WE APOLOGIZE.

30:30 - THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN USED

30:31 - AND THAT WAS THAT.

30:34 - WELL, CBS WAS OBVIOUSLY MUCH

30:35 - EMBARRASSED BY THIS.

30:36 - SO THEY ASKED ME AND LOU

30:42 - BACARDI, A FORMER HEAD OF THE

30:44 - ASSOCIATED PRESS, TO UNDERTAKE

30:46 - AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION.

30:47 - ONCE AGAIN, THE INDEPENDENCE OF

30:49 - THE INVESTIGATOR IS VERY

30:50 - IMPORTANT IN THESE CASES.

30:52 - IT CAN BEEN SOMEBODY WHO'S A

30:53 - PART OF YOUR IN-HOUSE FAMILY.

30:55 - IT CAN'T BE A REGULAR LAWYER,

30:57 - ACCOUNTANT, WHATEVER.

30:58 - IT'S GOT TO BE SOMEBODY WHO IS

31:00 - RECOGNIZED AS HAVING NO AX TO

31:01 - GRIND.

31:03 - THAT PUTS YOU AT A DISADVANTAGE,

31:04 - BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING

31:07 - ABOUT CBS.

31:08 - NEVER WORKED IN THE

31:10 - ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY.

31:10 - WE HAD TO RELY ON A QUICK

31:12 - LEARNING CURVE, BUT WE WERE

31:15 - ASKED TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED.

31:17 - PURELY AND SIMPLY.

31:18 - NOT TO CAST ANY BLAME.

31:19 - JUST TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED

31:21 - AND, OF COURSE WHAT WE FOUND WAS

31:22 - THAT A VERY SLOPPY JOB HAD BEEN

31:26 - DONE EVEN TRYING TO VERIFY THESE

31:29 - DOCUMENTS, THAT THE SOURCE OF

31:31 - THESE DOCUMENTS WAS HIGHLY

31:32 - SUSPECT.

31:33 - HE WAS A NOTORIOUS ANTI-GEORGE

31:37 - BUSH INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD BEEN

31:39 - PEDDLING STORIES AROUND TO

31:40 - VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE NEWS

31:42 - MEDIA OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, AND

31:45 - AS A RESULT, MARY NAPS, THE

31:48 - PRODUCER AND A VERY SKILLED

31:49 - PRODUCER.

31:50 - SHE'D WON A NUMBER OF AWARDS FOR

31:51 - WORK SHE'D DONE IN OTHER AREAS,

31:53 - WAS TAKEN IN AND UNDER THE

31:56 - PRESSURE OF BEATING THE

31:59 - COMPETITION, THEY PUT THIS

31:59 - PROGRAM ON THE AIR WITHOUT

32:00 - PROPER VETTING.

32:03 - AND IN OUR REPORT WE REPORTED

32:05 - ALL THAT WE HAD FOUND, AND WE

32:10 - MADE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS HOW

32:11 - THIS PARTICULAR KIND OF THING

32:12 - COULD BE AVOIDED IN THE FUTURE,

32:18 - AND WE DELIVERED IT TO THE CBS

32:21 - FOLKS.

32:21 - AS A RESULT, MR. RATHER WAS

32:25 - TERMINATED, MS. NAPS TERMINATED

32:27 - AND SORRY CHAPTER IN A GREAT

32:32 - INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING ON "60

32:33 - MINUTES" CAME TO AN END.

32:34 - ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MADE US

32:36 - MOST PROUD WHEN WE WORKED ON

32:37 - THIS WAS WALTER CRONKITE, THE

32:38 - LATE DEAN OF REPORTERS ON CBS

32:42 - SAID THAT THIS OUGHT TO BE

32:44 - REQUIRED READING IN JOURNALISM

32:46 - SCHOOLS, AND, OF COURSE, THAT

32:47 - MADE US FEEL GOOD, BECAUSE WE

32:49 - HAD HAD PRETTY STEEP LEARNING

32:54 - CURVE TO GRAB ALL THE NUANCES.

32:56 - >> HOW DID THIS HAPPEN IN AN

32:58 - EXPERIENCED PLACE LIKE CBS?

32:59 - >> IN PART THEY FELT THAT THEY

33:00 - WERE ABOVE THEM, THE USUAL LAWS.

33:06 - BOTH MARY THE PRODUCER AND DAN

33:08 - RATHER, THE FACE OF CBS, HAD

33:11 - LONG AND DISTINGUISHED CAREERS.

33:13 - HE REALLY WERE PART OF THE

33:16 - HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF

33:19 - INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING.

33:19 - AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING A A

33:22 - VERY IMPORTANT DEMOCRATIC PART

33:23 - OF OUR PROCESS, BUT SOMETIMES

33:25 - PEOPLE GET SLOPPY.

33:25 - SOMETIMES THEY GET A LITTLE BIT

33:29 - ARROGANT ABOUT THEIR ACTIVITY.

33:31 - WE INTERVIEWED A LOT OF PEOPLE

33:33 - AND, OF COURSE, QUESTIONED MS.

33:36 - NAPS ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF

33:38 - THESE DOCUMENTS AND SHE KIND OF

33:39 - BRUSHED THEM OFF.

33:40 - SHE WAS SO -- SHE FELL IN LOVE

33:43 - WITH THE STORY, THAT'S WHAT LOU

33:45 - BACARDI SAID.

33:46 - THEY FELL IN LOVE WITH THE STORY

33:48 - AND DIDN'T FOLLOW THE USUAL

33:50 - CAUTIONS THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE.

33:50 - >> WHAT CHANGES BEYOND YOU --

33:53 - YOU HAD MENTIONED MS. NAPS AND

33:56 - DAN RATHER WERE BOTH ASKED TO

33:58 - LEAVE.

33:58 - WRAP OTHER CHANGE IN TERMS OF

33:59 - THE PROCEDURE AND THE PROCESS

34:02 - DID THE FACTS, THAT THE FACTS

34:04 - ARE ACTUALLY FACTS?

34:05 - >> THE THINGS THAT STAND OUT.

34:06 - ONE IS WHEN YOU HAVE A PROGRAM

34:08 - SUCH AS THIS, THE "60 MINUTES"

34:11 - "60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY" PROGRAM

34:13 - OF SUCH HIGH PROFILE AND IT'S

34:14 - SUBJECT TO CRITICISM, YOU OUGHT

34:16 - TO HAVE A BRAND NEW TEAM OF

34:18 - PRODUCERS AND REPORTER IN TO

34:21 - REVIEW THE CRITICISM.

34:22 - IN THIS CASE, THE DEFENSE OF IT

34:25 - WAS CARRIED OUT BY THE VERY

34:26 - PEOPLE WHO HAD PUT THE PROGRAM

34:27 - ON THE AIR.

34:30 - AND IT WAS A SORRY DAY FOR DAN

34:32 - RATHER TO HAVE TO FINALLY COME

34:33 - UP AND SAY, EVERYTHING WE TOLD

34:35 - YOU WAS WRONG.

34:36 - WE CAN'T ESTABLISH THESE

34:37 - DOCUMENTS AS AUTHENTIC, AND IT

34:39 - WAS IMPORTANT TO THE PRESIDENT,

34:42 - BECAUSE YOU MAY RECALL AT THE

34:43 - TIME, ONE OF THE YOU HAVER IN

34:44 - ACTS THAT -- VULNERABILITIES

34:49 - SENATOR KERRY HAD, CHARGES MADE

34:50 - ABOUT HIS MILITARY ACTIVITIES ON

34:55 - THE SWIFT BOAT THING.

34:55 - ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, IT WAS

34:58 - KIND OF BALANCING OUT, IF THERE

35:00 - WAS DISCREPANCIES IN PRESIDENT

35:02 - BUSH'S RECORD.

35:03 - WELL, THAT MADE IT VERY

35:05 - HIGH-PROFILE AND IMPORTANT.

35:06 - SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS WE

35:07 - RECOMMENDED WERE THE FACT THAT

35:10 - NETWORKS WHO ARE RELYING ON, OR

35:13 - ANY NEWS MEDIA, RELYING UPON

35:15 - PRINTED DOCUMENT OUGHT TO HAVE

35:18 - ACCESS TO EXPERTS UPON WHOM THEY

35:18 - COULD RELY.

35:23 - IT WAS AMAZING TO ME THAT WHEN

35:25 - THIS QUESTION WAS RAISED ABOUT

35:27 - THE AUTHENTICITY OF DOCUMENT,

35:29 - CBS HAD TO KIND OF START FROM

35:31 - SCRATCH.

35:32 - WHO CAN VERIFY THESE THINGS?

35:33 - OF COURSE, THEY ENDED UP LOOKING

35:35 - FOR PEOPLE WHO COULD VERIFY THEM

35:37 - RATHER THAN THOSE WHO MIGHT SAY,

35:38 - THESE ARE EXACTLY WHAT THEY

35:39 - PURPORT TO BE.

35:41 - SO IN THIS, AS OTHER AREAS, AND

35:43 - I LEARNED THIS FROM THE THREE

35:45 - MILE ISLAND ACCIDENT THAT I HAD

35:46 - TO DEAL WITH WHEN I WAS THE

35:48 - GOVERNOR, IN THE GOVERNOR'S

35:49 - OFFICE YEARS BEFORE.

35:50 - NETWORKS DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING

35:51 - ABOUT ATOMIC POWER.

35:52 - NUCLEAR POWER.

35:54 - SO SINCE THAT TIME THEY'VE

35:57 - DEVELOPED A CARD FILE INDEX,

35:59 - ROLODEX, IF YOU WILL, OF PEOPLE

36:01 - TO GO FOR FOR ADVICE.

36:04 - REPORTERS HOWEVER SKILLED THEY

36:05 - MAY BE DON'T KNOW IT ALL AND

36:07 - SOMETIMES HE'S IN EXPERT

36:07 - WITNESSES AS WELL.

36:08 - SO IN THIS, KIND OF, THEY CALL

36:12 - IT BLACK ART OF DETERMINING THE

36:15 - AUTHENTICITY OF DOCUMENTS.

36:16 - THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF

36:17 - HELP AND, THEREFORE, IT SLID

36:19 - THROUGH, AND THEN THERE WERE A

36:20 - LOT OF -- WE REALLY CALLED UPON

36:22 - THEM TO HONOR THEIR OWN CODE OF

36:24 - ETHICS WHICH CALLED FOR FAIRNESS

36:25 - AND BALANCE IN THE REPORTING,

36:30 - AND THAT WAS ABSENT HERE.

36:33 - >> A PRIVATE PRACTICE CASE YOU

36:39 - REPRESENTED ALLEGHENY COUNTY

36:42 - CORONER CYRIL WECHT.

36:43 - TALK ABOUT THE CHARGES BROUGHT

36:47 - AGAINST HIM.

36:47 - >> AN EFFORT.

36:49 - PROSECUTORIAL OVERREACH.

36:51 - THE PROSECUTORS IN WESTERN

36:52 - PENNSYLVANIA WITH A LOT OF

36:54 - FANFARE BROUGHT CRIMINAL CHARGES

36:56 - AGAINST DR. CYRIL WECHT WHO IS A

36:58 - RENOWNED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST

37:00 - KNOWN AROUND THE WORLD.

37:03 - BEING TARGETED.

37:04 - UNFORTUNATELY SOMETIMES WHEN YOU

37:05 - HAVE A BIG TARGET, YOU'RE NOT AT

37:07 - CAREFUL IN PUTTING YOUR CASE

37:08 - TOGETHER AS YOU MIGHT BE.

37:13 - SO CYRIL WECHT IS A DEMOCRAT.

37:14 - I'M A REPUBLICAN, BUT HAVE KNOWN

37:16 - HIM OVER THE YEARS.

37:17 - HE'S A VERY OUTSPOKEN DEMOCRAT,

37:20 - AND VERY, AS I SAID A GOOD

37:23 - TARGET FOR THOSE WHO ARE SEEKING

37:24 - TO BRING HIM DOWN.

37:26 - HE ASKED ME TO HELP REPRESENT

37:28 - HIM.

37:28 - SO I DID, AND SOME OF MY

37:32 - COLLEAGUES FROM K & L GATES

37:39 - EXPERT TRAVELERS.

37:39 - THEY DID THE COURT WORK.

37:42 - ULTIMATELY AFTER A LOT OF STORM

37:46 - YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY, THE

37:47 - CHARGES WERE DISMISSED IN TOTO,

37:50 - BUT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN

37:51 - BROUGHT.

37:52 - I MADE THAT CASE TO THE U.S.

37:54 - ATTORNEY.

37:54 - I WAS A U.S. ATTORNEY ONCE.

37:55 - I THINK I KNOW WHAT A CRIMINAL

37:57 - CASE LOOKS LIKE AND THIS IS NOT

37:58 - A CRIMINAL CASE.

37:59 - WHAT THEY'D DONE WAS CHARGED HIM

38:01 - WITH FRAUD ON THE BASIS OF

38:02 - HAVING USED THE OFFICE FAX

38:04 - MACHINE IN THE MEDICAL

38:08 - EXAMINER'S OFFICE FOR SOME OF

38:09 - HIS VARIOUS PRIVATE VENTURES.

38:11 - NOW, HE WAS ALLOWED TO HAVE A

38:12 - PRIVATE BUSINESS ON THE SIDE.

38:15 - THERE WAS NOTHING ILLEGAL, OR

38:16 - WRONG ABOUT THAT, BUT USED THE

38:19 - FAX MACHINE OR WOULD USED

38:20 - TELEPHONE OR SEND ONE OF THEIR

38:22 - DRIVERS OVER TO -- OH ON

38:25 - OCCASION DROVE THE KIDS AROUND.

38:26 - THIS IS NOT CORRUPTION.

38:27 - THIS IS JUST BAD JUDGMENT, AND

38:29 - IT COULD HAVE BEEN CLEARED UP

38:31 - VERY EASILY IF THEY JUST HAD AN

38:33 - AUDITOR COME IN AND SAY, WELL,

38:36 - DRCT DR. WECHT YOU OWE THE

38:38 - COUNTY $85.12 OR SOMETHING LIKE

38:41 - THAT, BUT IT BECAME A BIG CASE

38:43 - FOR THE U.S. ATTORNEY AND ONE OF

38:44 - THE MOST HURTFUL THINGS SHE DID

38:49 - WAS TO CHARGE DR WECHT, TRADING

38:54 - CADAVERS FOR OFFICE SPACE.

38:56 - UNTHINKABLE.

38:56 - THE NEWS MEDIA UNDERSTANDABLY

38:57 - HAD A GREAT FIELD DAY WITH THAT,

39:01 - LABELING HIM AS A BODY SNATCHER

39:02 - AND THE LIKE.

39:05 - THIS WAS AT CARLO COLLEGE.

39:09 - THE PRESIDENT OF THE COLLEGE

39:10 - NAME AS A WITNESS, I'LL NEVER

39:11 - FORGET.

39:12 - NOBODY IN THE FBI HAD EVER

39:14 - TALKED TO HER.

39:14 - THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NEVER

39:16 - TALKED TO HER AND SHE SAID IT

39:17 - WAS ABSOLUTELY REPREHENSIBLE

39:20 - THEY WOULD CHARGE HIM BECAUSE IT

39:21 - NEVER HAPPENED.

39:22 - SO IT WAS A SORRY DAY AND I

39:23 - TESTIFIED BEFORE THE CONGRESS

39:24 - AND IT MADE ME A, AN ADVOCATE

39:26 - FOR -- DEALING WITH THE PROBLEM

39:35 - OF OVERCRIMINALIZATION.

39:36 - JUST AS WE HAVE A TENDENCY IN

39:37 - THE CIVIL CASE WHEN SOMETHING

39:39 - GOES WRONG TO SAY, WHO DO I SUE?

39:41 - ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE, WHEN

39:43 - SOMETHING GOES WRONG, THE PUBLIC

39:45 - AND OFTENTIMES UNFORTUNATELY

39:47 - PROSECUTORS SAY, WE'RE GOING TO

39:48 - BRING CRIMINAL CHARGES, AND

39:52 - THERE'S QUITE AN ACTIVE

39:55 - COALITION THESE DAYS MADE UP OF

39:55 - PEOPLE ON THE LEFT FROM THE AC

39:57 - LU AND FROM THE AMERICAN BAR

40:01 - ASSOCIATION AND THE RIGHTS,

40:02 - HERITAGE FOUNDATION AND THE K.O.

40:05 - INSTITUTE, AND THE WASHINGTON

40:07 - LEGAL FOUNDATION, ALL HAVE

40:11 - COALESCED OESH OVER THIS ISSUE.

40:15 - WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE OFF THE

40:16 - HOOK WHEN THEY COMMIT CRIMINAL

40:17 - ACTS BUT SHOULD BE WARY OF

40:20 - STRETCHING THE CRIMINAL LAW TO

40:21 - COVER EVERY LAST SUSPICIOUS ACT

40:25 - THAT TAKES PLACE.

40:26 - IT'S JUST COUNTERPRODUCTIVE AND

40:28 - ENORMOUSLY TROUBLESOME TO THE

40:29 - PEOPLE IDENTIFIED AS CRIMINAL

40:33 - ACTORS WHEN THEY'VE COMMITTED NO

40:35 - CRIME.

40:36 - MY OWN PERSONAL STAKE IN THIS IS

40:38 - THAT I HAVE LONG BEEN COGNIZANT

40:40 - OF THE FACT WE REALLY HAVE NO

40:42 - FEDERAL CRIMINAL CODE.

40:43 - ALL WE HAVE IS STACK ONE ON TOP

40:45 - OF THE OTHER, A SERIES OF LAWS

40:47 - PASSED AND ENACTED TO DEAL WITH

40:50 - PARTICULAR -- AS A RESULT,

40:52 - THERE'S A LOT OF CONFLICT, A LOT

40:54 - OF AMBIGUITY, BUT IT'S HARD TO

40:56 - GET LEGISLATORS TO FUNCTION ON A

40:58 - BIG TASK LIKE THAT.

40:59 - WE DID IT IN THE MEEFD

41:02 - POST-WATERGATE ERA, THAT CLOSE

41:04 - TO GETTING THAT CRIMINAL CODE

41:07 - ENACTED PAP CODE THAT HAD ITS

41:09 - ROOTS IN THE AMERICAN LAW

41:11 - INSTITUTE INTO ABOUT ESTABLISHED

41:13 - LEGAL BODY WHICH LOOKED AT THE

41:14 - CODES AND PROVIDED THE BASIS FOR

41:15 - A LOT OF STATE LAWS BUT I'M GET

41:17 - INTO ONE OF MY AREAS OF SPECIAL

41:18 - PLEADING.

41:20 - >> LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE OF

41:22 - YOUR CAREER AND YOUR LIFE, WHAT

41:24 - REMAIN ON YOUR TO-DO LIST?

41:26 - >> MORE OF THE SAME.

41:27 - I ENJOY WHAT I DO WITH MY FIRM.

41:30 - I AM PROUD EVER THE PROGRESS

41:31 - THAT THEY'VE MADE.

41:32 - THIS WAS A FIRM THAT HAD 19

41:35 - LAWYERS AND HALF A FLOOR IN A

41:38 - DOWNTOWN OFFICE BUILDING WHEN I

41:39 - FIRST JOINED THEM IN 1959.

41:41 - NOW 1,900 LAWYERS IN 37 CITIES

41:45 - AROUND THE WORLD, ON THREE

41:47 - DIFFERENT CONTINENTS AND HAVE

41:48 - DONE EXTREMELY WELL, AND I HOPE

41:51 - I CAN CONTINUE TO CONTRIBUTE IN

41:53 - THE SOME SMALL WAY TO THAT

41:55 - SUCCESS.

41:55 - SERVING CLIENTS, GIVING THEM TOP

41:58 - QUALITY SERVICE, GIVING THEM THE

41:59 - KIND OF LEGAL REPRESENTATION

42:00 - THAT THEY DESERVE AND EXPECT.

42:02 - >> WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT

42:04 - PRACTICING LAW?

42:04 - >> I LIKE THE GRAPPLING WITH

42:09 - FACTUAL SITUATIONS.

42:09 - YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE TIME

42:11 - CLIENTS WILL COME IN WITH A CASE

42:16 - AND THEY'LL DESCRIBE IT TO YOU,

42:16 - AND THEY DESCRIBE IT IN TERMS OF

42:23 - WHAT THEIR WRONGED FEELING IS,

42:25 - AND YOU HAVE TO DO A LOT OF

42:27 - DIGGING AND A LOT OF PULLING OUT

42:31 - OF FACTS THAT HE MAY NOT WANT TO

42:34 - TALK ABOUT IN ORDER TO GET YOUR

42:35 - OWN PICTURE, AND THAT'S EVEN

42:37 - BEFORE YOU HAVE AN ADVERSARY.

42:38 - IF YOU HAVE AN ADVERSARY YOU GO

42:40 - THROUGH EXTENSIVE DISCOVERY

42:42 - PROCEEDINGS AND THE LIKE.

42:43 - I DON'T REALLY DO MUCH OF THAT

42:45 - ANYMORE.

42:45 - MY COURTROOM DAYS ARE IN THE

42:47 - PAST.

42:48 - I DON'T PULL DOWN MANY BOOK BUT

42:51 - HAVE A UNIQUE ADVANTAGE POINT

42:52 - BECAUSE OF THE YEARS SPENT IN

42:54 - THE COURTROOM AND IN HANDLING,

42:56 - VERY INVOLVED IN COMPLICATED

42:57 - MATTERS AND I ENJOY IT.

42:58 - I LIKE TAKING A TOUGH PROBLEM

43:00 - AND TRYING TO SOLVE IT.

43:00 - SO I, AS LONG AS THEY'LL HAVE

43:04 - ME, I HOPE I HAVE A CHANCE TO

43:06 - CONTINUE TO PRACTICE LAW.

43:07 - >> YOUR LAST LITTLE -- 1991.

43:12 - ANY ASPIRATIONS TO RETURN TO ANY

43:14 - PUBLIC OFFICE IN THAT SCOPE, OR

43:15 - TO REMAIN ACTIVE WITH THE

43:17 - REPUBLICAN PARTY JT.

43:18 - >> YOU'RE VERY KIND TO STHAUGT I

43:20 - MIGHT RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE

43:21 - AGAIN, BUT I THINK THOSE DAYS

43:22 - ARE OVER AS WELL.

43:23 - I THOROUGHLY ENJOYED IT.

43:25 - I WOULDN'T TRADE A MINUTE, WITH

43:27 - ALL THE WINS AND LOSS, UPS AND

43:31 - DOWNS.

43:31 - TURMOIL THAT'S INVOLVED IN

43:32 - POLITICAL LIFE, I LOVED IT.

43:33 - IT WAS REALLY ONE OF THE MOST

43:38 - POSITIVE AND PRODUCTIVE

43:40 - PERSONALLY TIMES FOR ME, AND I'M

43:42 - FORTUNATE TO HAVE HAD A FAMILY

43:44 - THAT SUPPORTED ME AND OFTEN

43:45 - PARTICIPATED IN THE CAMPAIGNS

43:48 - THEMSELVES.

43:48 - RIGHT NOW MY CONTACT WITH THE

43:49 - POLITICAL PROCESS IS EMPASODIC.

43:56 - A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW HAVE GONE

43:59 - ON TO IMPORTANT POSITIONS.

44:00 - I KEEP IN TOUCH AND TAKE UP A

44:02 - CAUSE EVERY NOW AND THEN.

44:03 - I JUST RECENTLY FINISHED AN

44:04 - EFFORT TO TRY TO GET THE

44:06 - BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT TO THE

44:07 - CONSTITUTION INCLUDED IN THE

44:10 - AGENDA OF THE CONGRESS AND

44:11 - TRYING TO IMPOSE SOME

44:14 - DISCIPLINE.

44:14 - WE HAD A BALANCED BUDGET

44:16 - REQUIREMENT IN PENNSYLVANIA'S

44:18 - CONSTITUTION AND I'VE SEEN HOW

44:19 - IT WORKS.

44:20 - IT SAYS TO FOLKS OUT THERE,

44:23 - WE'VE GOT TO PUT THESE THINGS IN

44:24 - BALANCE.

44:25 - JUST LIKE A FAMILY.

44:25 - YOU'VE GOT IT MAKE YOUR INCOME

44:30 - MATCH YEOH OUT-GO.

44:31 - THAT WILL HAVE TO WAIT FOR

44:33 - ANOTHER DAY, I THINK.

44:33 - >> HAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

44:35 - CHANGED OVER THE YEARS?

44:36 - >> I THINK IT HAS.

44:37 - I THINK THAT MY PARTY HAS GONE A

44:41 - LITTLE BIT TOO, THE MORE

44:43 - CONSERVATIVE SIDE THAN IT WAS

44:44 - BACK IN THE DAYS OF YOUR, BUT SO

44:47 - HAS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

44:48 - I THINK THE MOST RECENT GO-ROUND

44:53 - ON THE DEBT CRISIS INDICATED

44:55 - THAT BOTH PARTIES ARE CHASTENED

44:58 - BY THE FACT WE HAVE THIS

45:00 - ENORMOUS DEBT THAT RESULTS FROM

45:02 - IRRESPONSIBLE SPENDING BY

45:05 - PARTIES OF BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS,

45:08 - ADMINISTRATIONS OF BOTH PARTIES.

45:09 - THERE'S NO ROOM TO HIDE FOR

45:10 - ANYBODY IN PUBLIC LIFE DURING

45:11 - THIS PERIOD WHEN IT COMES TO

45:13 - PINNING THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR

45:16 - OVERSPENDING.

45:16 - LOOK, WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE

45:19 - TIMES WHEN I TALK ABOUT A

45:22 - BALANCED BCHD AMENDMENT YOU NEED

45:24 - AN EXCEPTION IN THERE FOR TIMES

45:25 - OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY.

45:26 - IF THERE'S A WAR, NATIONAL

45:28 - SECURITY CRISIS OR ECONOMIC

45:29 - CRISIS, THEN YOU HAVE A SUPER

45:32 - MAJORITY AUTHORIZE THAT.

45:33 - A RIGID BALANCE BUDGET

45:35 - REQUIREMENT, BUT 9 TROUBLE IS

45:36 - THERE'S BEEN NO DISCIPLINE

45:37 - WHATSOEVER, AND EVEN IN THE LAST

45:41 - COUPLE OF YEARS, DURING THE

45:45 - PRESIDENT OBAMA'S

45:47 - ADMINISTRATION, ALTHOUGH THEY

45:48 - TRY TO LAY ALL OF THIS AT GEORGE

45:52 - BUSH'S FEET, THE FACT OF THE

45:54 - MATTER IS THAT SPEND HAG

45:56 - SKYROCKETED AND THE DEFICIT

45:58 - SKYROCKETED, AND MEANTIME,

46:00 - UNEMPLOYMENT HAS SKYROCKETED.

46:02 - WE HAVE A VERY CHALLENGING

46:04 - SITUATION.

46:04 - BUT WE ALSO HAVE A VERY GOOD

46:06 - SYSTEM AND LOTS OF GOOD PEOPLE

46:07 - WHO ARE WILLING TO PARTICIPATE

46:12 - IN PROBLEM-SOLVING, AND THE

46:14 - MAJORITY OF OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM

46:15 - IS THAT IT'S ACCESSIBLE.

46:16 - SOMEBODY WITH A GOOD IDEA OR A

46:17 - LOT OF ENTHUSIASM CAN FIND HIS

46:21 - OR HER WAY INTO THAT SYSTEM AND

46:22 - MAKE A CONTRIBUTION.

46:24 - SO I'M BASICALLY ALWAYS BULLISH

46:26 - ON AMERICA.

46:26 - I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE OUR

46:27 - PROBLEMS AND WE'RE GOING TO

46:29 - CONTINUE TO BE ONE OF THE

46:31 - WORLD'S LEADERS AND XEMP MARCHES

46:34 - IN DEMOCRACY AND RULE OF LAW,

46:37 - THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT

46:38 - PRINCIPLES WE CAN OBSERVE AND

46:40 - USE AS ROLE MODELS.

46:41 - >> HAS THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE

46:43 - AND THE DYNAMICS BETWEEN THE

46:44 - PARTIES CHANGED OVER THE YEARS?

46:46 - >> GOTTEN A LITTLE UGLIER I

46:48 - THINK OUT IN.

46:48 - THAT'S CONTRIBUTED TO WHAT WE

46:50 - TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.

46:52 - THE 24-HOUR NEWS CYCLE.

46:54 - SOMEBODY SAYS SOMETHING IN AN

46:55 - OFFHAND WAY AND THEN SOMEBODY

46:56 - PICKS UP ON IT.

46:58 - PRETTY SOON THEY'RE SIDE BY SIDE

46:59 - ON ONE OF THE CABLE CHANNELS

47:02 - GOING AT ONE ANOTHER.

47:03 - I'M NOT SURE THAT'S ALL THAT

47:03 - PRODUCTIVE.

47:05 - LET ME SAY ON THE OTHER HAND,

47:09 - YOU KNOW, TRANSPARENCY IS

47:11 - IMPORTANT.

47:11 - IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE AS

47:14 - CITIZE KNOW WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT

47:16 - LEADERS ARE DOING.

47:17 - THAT'S THE PLUS SIDE OF THE

47:19 - 24-HOUR NEWS CYCLE.

47:20 - THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY HAVE TO

47:23 - HAVE SOMETHING TO COVER.

47:24 - IF THERE'S NO STORY THAT DAY

47:26 - THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO DARK.

47:27 - THEY'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH

47:28 - SOMETHING AND OFTEN TIMES THEY

47:30 - GENERATE THESE KINDS OF STORIES

47:33 - THAT REALLY CAST MORE HEAT THAN

47:35 - LIGHT ON THE ISSUES INVOLVED.

47:37 - >> AT AN EARLIER TIME YOU TALKED

47:39 - ABOUT YOUR EARLY DAYS MEETING

47:41 - WITH HILLMAN AND THE MEMBERSHIP

47:42 - YOU HAD WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG AND

47:45 - JUST ENTERING POLITICS.

47:47 - HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO

47:48 - TURN THE TABLE AND MENTOR OTHERS

47:50 - YOUNGER AND INTERESTED IN

47:52 - ENTERING THE POLITICAL FRAY?

47:54 - >> I USE EVERY OPPORTUNITY I CAN

47:58 - TO INTERACT WITH YOUNG PEOPLE,

47:59 - PARTICULARLY THOSE WITH AN

48:00 - INTEREST IN POLITICS.

48:01 - I'VE SPOKEN, GOSH, OVER 125

48:03 - COLLEGE CAMPUSES AROUND THE

48:05 - NATION, AND I TREASURE THOSE

48:07 - OPPORTUNITIES.

48:07 - NOT ONLY FOR THE FACT THAT I CAN

48:10 - TRANSMIT MY EXPERIENCE AND MY

48:11 - LESSONS TO YOUNGER PEOPLE, BUT I

48:13 - CAN LEARN.

48:13 - I CATCH UP ON WHAT'S GOING ON.

48:17 - AND I DON'T JUST OSIFY IN MY

48:22 - ADVANCING YEARS BECAUSE I'M

48:24 - TRYING TO KEEP AS CLOSE AS I CAN

48:27 - TO THE YOUNG FOLKS.

48:28 - GINNY ALWAYS SAID TO ME WHEN I

48:30 - COME BACK FROM A COLLEGE CAMPUS

48:32 - OR HIGH SCHOOL, SHE CAN ALWAYS

48:35 - TELL I'VE BEEN THERE BECAUSE I

48:36 - HAVE A BOUNCE IN MY STEP, A

48:38 - SMILE ON MY FACE, BECAUSE MY

48:39 - FAITH IS RENEWED ON THE FACT WE

48:42 - HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY AN ENORMOUS

48:43 - SUPPLY OF HUMAN CAPITAL AND

48:45 - THESE YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY ARE

48:46 - JUST EXTRAORDINARILY BRIGHT.

48:48 - I KNOW THE YOUNG LAWYERS IN OUR

48:50 - FIRM, MEN AND WOMEN, WHO ARE

48:51 - JUST STARTING OUT PROFESSIONAL

48:53 - CAREERS, I KNOW THOSE WHO ARE IN

48:54 - LAW SCHOOLS AND IN THE

48:57 - UNDERGRADUATE, I WORKED AT

49:00 - UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH THROUGH

49:02 - DICK THORNBURGH, LAW AND PUBLIC

49:04 - POLICY WE ESTABLISHED TO PUT

49:05 - PROGRAMS ON AND INTERACT WITH

49:07 - YOUNGER PEOPLE TO SHARE THE

49:09 - SPECIFIC LESSONS AND EXPERIENCES

49:11 - I'VE HAD.

49:12 - WE'VE PUT ON PROGRAMS,

49:15 - SYMPOSIUMS, HAVE SPEAKERS, AND

49:16 - REALLY TRIED TO CONTRIBUTE JUST

49:20 - A LITTLE BIT FROM WHAT MY

49:22 - EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN TO WHAT

49:23 - THEY MIGHT LOOK TO FOR THEIR OWN

49:26 - OPPORTUNITIES.

49:27 - I HAVE ONE OF THOSE COMING UP

49:28 - THIS FALL AND AM LOOKING FORWARD

49:29 - TO GETTING BACK INTO THE

49:31 - CLASSROOM.

49:31 - >> WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE

49:32 - SOMEONE IF THEY APPROACHED YOU

49:35 - AND SAID THEY WERE INTERESTED IN

49:37 - ENTERING POLITICS?

49:38 - >> COME EARLY.

49:39 - STAY LATE.

49:40 - ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED IN

49:42 - POLITICS.

49:42 - THE BEST THING CAN YOU DO IS

49:44 - SHOW UP, BE WILLING TO DO SOME

49:46 - OF THE DIRTY WORK, YOU KNOW,

49:49 - USED TO BE LICKING ENVELOPES AND

49:51 - GOING DOOR TO DOOR.

49:54 - I DON'T KNOW YOU DO AS MUCH OF

49:55 - HAS NOW.

49:55 - MUCH OF IT IS ONLINE.

49:59 - USE YOUR OWN CAPABILITIES.

50:00 - THE SKILLS YOU DEVELOPED.

50:01 - INTERESTING YOU DEVELOPED, TO

50:03 - ADVANCE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT

50:04 - YOU'LL BE WORKING FOR SOMEBODY

50:06 - ELSE.

50:06 - YOU DON'T JUST POP INTO POLITICS

50:07 - AND RUN FOR OFFICE YOURSELF

50:08 - RIGHT AWAY.

50:09 - I KNOW THAT FROM MY OWN

50:10 - EXPERIENCE, AND YOU NEED TO

50:14 - REALLY HEED THE WISDOM AND

50:15 - ADVISE THAT COMES FROM YOUR

50:17 - ELDERS.

50:17 - IN MY CASE, ONE OF THE MAJOR

50:20 - CONTRIBUTORS TO MY CAREER AND --

50:29 - AND ENCOUNTERED, AND MENTORED

50:32 - ME, SUPPORTED ME, AND HELPED ME

50:35 - ALONG THE WAY, IN EVERY ENDEAVOR

50:38 - I HAD AND I'LL BE ETERNALLY

50:40 - GRATEFUL FOR AND THOSE ARE THE

50:41 - KINDS OF PEOPLE YOU WANT TO LOOK

50:42 - FOR TO ASSOCIATE WITH AND TO

50:45 - LEARN FROM, AND THERE ARE GREAT

50:48 - OPPORTUNITIES IN THIS COUNTRY,

50:49 - THE SKY'S THE LIMIT.

50:52 - THERE'S NO RESTRAINT OF WEALTH

50:55 - OR BACKGROUND OR SOCIAL STANDING

50:58 - THAT INHINTS YOU FROM ACHIEVING

51:00 - WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO.

51:01 - IN PUBLIC OR IN PRIVATE LIFE.

51:03 - AND I THINK THAT'S THE LESSON

51:05 - WE'VE GOT TO KEEP REMINDING OUR

51:06 - YOUNG PEOPLE.

51:07 - BECAUSE TIMES ARE TOUGH.

51:07 - I KNOW THAT A LOT OF RECENT

51:11 - GRADUATES, FOR EXAMPLE,

51:13 - NOWADAYS, WITH THE JOB MARKET

51:14 - BEING WHAT IT IS TEND TO GET

51:16 - DISCOURAGED, BUT IF THEY'RE GOOD

51:17 - AND THEY KEEP AT IT, THEY'RE

51:18 - GOING TO SURVIVE AND THEY'RE

51:20 - GOING TO HELP THIS COUNTRY

51:21 - SURVIVE.

51:22 - >> LOOKING BACK ON YOUR LIFE,

51:23 - WHAT WERE THE HIGHLIGHTS?

51:24 - >> OH, GEE.

51:25 - MANY HIGHLIGHTS.

51:29 - BEGINNING WITH MY GOOD FORTUNE

51:30 - IN BEING BORN INTO A LOVING

51:32 - FAMILY THAT CARED ABOUT ME AND

51:35 - MY BROTHER AND SISTERS.

51:38 - GROWING UP IN A COMMUNITY WHERE

51:41 - PEOPLE CARED ABOUT ONE ANOTHER,

51:43 - AND WHERE SOLID VALUES WERE

51:49 - IMPORTED THROUGH OUR SCHOOL

51:50 - SYSTEM AND THROUGH PARENTS WHO

51:53 - REALLY TOOK A GREAT DEAL OF

51:54 - INTEREST IN THE WHAT THEY'RE

51:56 - KIDS WERE DOING.

51:58 - THE ADVANTAGE WAS A MARVELOUS

52:00 - EDUCATION.

52:00 - WEREN'T OF OUR GREAT

52:01 - INSTITUTION, YALE UNIVERSITY,

52:02 - AND THEN THE KIND OF BY CHANCE

52:07 - AFFILIATION WITH THE LAW.

52:09 - THE VERY LAST MINUTE I DECIDED

52:10 - TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL AND, OF

52:12 - COURSE, THERE I FOUND SOMETHING

52:12 - THAT I WAS ENORMOUSLY INTERESTED

52:16 - IN, AND EVENTUALLY PROVED TO

52:18 - HAVE SOME CAPABILITY IN.

52:20 - THOSE ARE THINGS THAT I

52:20 - REMEMBER.

52:22 - BEING ASSOCIATED WITH A GREAT

52:25 - LAW FIRM OVER THE YEARS, HAVING

52:26 - THE ADVANTAGE OF FRIENDS AND

52:31 - MENTORS LIKE ELSY HOMAN AND

52:35 - GEORGE H.W. BUSH, THE PRESIDENT

52:36 - I SERVED ALONG WITH RONALD

52:38 - REAGAN AT ATTORNEY GENERAL.

52:40 - I ALWAYS ADMIRED PRESIDENT BUSH

52:42 - AND WAS INTERESTED TO SEE AN

52:43 - ARTICLE IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES,"

52:45 - HE REALLY WASN'T SUCH A BAD

52:47 - PRESIDENT AFTER ALL, SOMETHING I

52:48 - KNEW, OF COURSE, ALL ALONG.

52:49 - MY OWN FAMILY.

52:51 - IN TWO RESPECTS.

52:52 - ONE, MARRYING MY CHILDHOOD

52:55 - SWEETHEART, AND HAVING THREE

52:57 - WONDERFUL BOYS.

52:57 - AND THEN LOSING HER IN A TRAGIC

53:00 - AUTO ACCIDENT, WHICH REALLY

53:01 - TURNED MY WHOLE WORLD UPSIDE

53:04 - DOWN, MADE ME WONDER WHETHER I

53:06 - WAS GOING TO GO -- AND THEN THE

53:08 - GOOD LORD SENT ME, TO MY CURRENT

53:10 - WIFE GINNY, AND OUR FOURTH SON

53:14 - AND NOW SIX GRANDKIDS AND ONE

53:19 - GREAT-GRANDDAUGHTER.

53:20 - FAMILY IS REALLY ONE OF THE

53:22 - THREE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS.

53:24 - FAMILY, FRIENDS AND FAITH, TO

53:28 - ME.

53:28 - AND IN EVERY RESPECT I'VE

53:29 - PROFITED FROM THAT.

53:31 - SO THEN A LONG STRING OF

53:33 - OPPORTUNITIES THAT I HAD, AND I

53:34 - WAS ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IN

53:36 - PUBLIC LIFE AND IN RETURN TO

53:39 - PRIVATE LIFE.

53:40 - THOSE ARE JUST THINGS I CAN'T BE

53:43 - OTHER THAN GRATEFUL FOR.

53:46 - >> YOU MENTION YOUR FAMILY.

53:47 - WHAT LESSONS WOULD YOU LIKE TO

53:48 - MOST IMPRESS UPON YOUR SONS?

53:51 - >> WELL, I SUPPOSE EACH OF US

53:54 - STRIDES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE.

53:58 - TO IMPART TO OUR CHILDREN VALUES

54:01 - THAT ARE FIXED, NOT JUST GOOD

54:08 - FOR ONE DAY ONLY.

54:08 - THEY ARE PERMANENT, AND THEY ARE

54:11 - SUSTAINING.

54:12 - VALUES OF LOYALTY.

54:14 - VALUES OF FRIENDSHIP.

54:16 - VALUES OF CONCERN FOR OTHERS.

54:20 - OUR VALUES MUCH MORE THAN OUR

54:23 - LAWS.

54:23 - WHEN YOU STOP TO THINK ABOUT,

54:24 - SHAPE OUR LIVES FAR MORE, AND

54:29 - THOSE VALUES REQUIRE CONSTANT

54:32 - NURTURING.

54:32 - SO THAT I THINK WHAT PARENTS CAN

54:33 - DO IS LIVE THE EXAMPLE OF THEIR

54:39 - OWN VALUES.

54:40 - PREACH THEM.

54:41 - I MEAN, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

54:44 - AUTOMATICALLY.

54:44 - YOU'VE REALLY GOT TO GET ACROSS

54:45 - TO YOUR KIDS WHAT YOU REALLY --

54:47 - WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU.

54:49 - AND THEN SUPPORT THEM.

54:51 - SUPPORT THEM IN EVERY WAY YOU

54:54 - CAN IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR

54:55 - OWN LIVES AND THEIR OWN CAREERS,

54:57 - AND THEY'RE GOING TO VARY.

54:58 - THEY'RE GOING TO BE ALL OVER THE

55:00 - LOT, AND IT'S BEEN REALLY

55:01 - FASCINATING FOR GINNY AND PLEA

55:03 - TO WATCH THE DEVELOPMENT OF OUR

55:04 - SONS IN DIFFERENT ROLES THAT

55:06 - THEY'VE UNDERTAKEN, AND THEIR

55:09 - OWN FAMILIES.

55:09 - SO FAMILY IS REALLY, AS I SAID,

55:13 - FAMILY, FAITH AND FRIENDSHIP ARE

55:15 - THINGS THAT REALLY COUNT.

55:18 - >> WHO ARE YOUR HEROES?

55:20 - >> MY HEROES?

55:21 - WELL, I WOULD BEGIN, I GUESS,

55:23 - WITH THE TWO PRESIDENTS I SERVED

55:24 - AS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

55:27 - WHO I REGARD AS GIANTS IN THE

55:28 - POLITICAL FIELD.

55:29 - BOTH IN TERMS OF THEIR WISDOM

55:32 - AND ABILITY AND INTEGRITY, BUT

55:36 - ALSO JUST AS HUMAN BEINGS.

55:39 - RONALD REAGAN AND GEORGE H.W.

55:40 - BUSH.

55:41 - THEY ARE TRUE HEROES.

55:43 - ANOTHER HERO OF MINE IS GOVERNOR

55:47 - BILL SCRANTON WHO SERVED LONG

55:49 - BEFORE ME AND THE GOVERNOR OF

55:51 - PENNSYLVANIA HAD I FIRST GOT

55:51 - INVOLVED IN POLITICS.

55:56 - AND HE SET AN EXAMPLE THAT I

55:58 - TRIED TO FOLLOW IN MY OWN

56:00 - CAREER.

56:01 - I MENTIONED ELSY, SO SUPPORTIVE

56:05 - AND SO THOUGHTFUL IN HELPS MY

56:07 - CAREER ALONG.

56:08 - SHE'S A HERO.

56:13 - I SUPPOSE MOST OF ALL MY WIFE

56:16 - GINNY, WHO AT AGE 23 BECAME A

56:20 - SINGLE MOM TO THREE VERY

56:23 - BEWILDERED BOYS AND A HUSBAND TO

56:25 - ME, AND IN THE AFTERMATH OF JUST

56:27 - AN UNTHINKABLE LOSS IN MY FIRST

56:31 - WIFE'S DEATH IN AN AUTO

56:32 - ACCIDENT, AND SHE NOT ONLY TOOK

56:34 - THAT CHALLENGE ON BUT CONQUERED

56:36 - IT AND HAS CARVED OUT A

56:38 - MEANINGFUL CAREER FOR HERSELF TO

56:39 - THE BENEFIT OF ALL PEOPLE WITH

56:41 - DISABILITIES.

56:43 - WHEN I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY AS

56:45 - ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED

56:48 - STATES TO BE THE POINT MAN FOR

56:50 - THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ON THE

56:52 - AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT,

56:54 - IT GAVE ME A RARE OPPORTUNITY.

56:57 - IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN TO

56:58 - PEOPLE IN PUBLIC LIFE.

57:00 - WHERE YOU CAN MERGE YOUR PRIVATE

57:03 - AGENDA WITH YOUR PUBLIC

57:05 - RESPONSIBILITIES.

57:05 - OF COURSE, MY PRIVATE AGENDA WAS

57:07 - THE CARE AND UPBRINGING OF MY

57:11 - YOUNGEST SON AT THE TIME OF THE

57:13 - ACCIDENT PETER, WHO SUFFERED

57:15 - MULTIPLE SKULL FRACTURES AND

57:17 - SEVERE BRAIN DAMAGE AT THE AGE

57:17 - OF 4 MONTHS.

57:21 - AND TODAY PETER IS 51 YEARS OLD,

57:24 - AND HE'S VERY LIMITED, BUT HE

57:26 - LIVES A FULFILLING LIFE, AND HE

57:29 - GAVE GINNY AND ME A MISSION.

57:31 - A MISSION TO SEE THAT PEOPLE

57:33 - WITH DISABILITIES ARE TREATED

57:35 - FAIRLY, ARE NOT DENIED ACCESS TO

57:37 - ALL THAT WE ENJOY IN LIFE, AND

57:40 - TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND

57:42 - PARTICIPATE IN THE FRAMING OF

57:44 - THE FIRST LEGISLATION THAT WAS

57:45 - EVER ENACTED IN THIS COUNTRY ON

57:47 - A COMPREHENSIVE BASIS TO DEAL

57:49 - WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES,

57:51 - THAT'S ABOUT AS GOOD AS IT GETS.

57:53 - >> WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO DO WHEN

57:54 - YOU'RE NOT WORKING?

57:55 - >> WELL, I READ A LOT.

57:58 - I READ INCESSANTLY.

58:01 - I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP MY REGIMEN OF

58:07 - SPORT PARTICIPATION.

58:07 - I NEVER WAS MUCH OF AN ATHLETE

58:10 - BUT I ENJOY PLAYING TENNIS.

58:12 - I GOLF AND MOSTLY KIND OF

58:14 - WALKING AROUND.

58:14 - AS THE YEARS GO ON, YOUR

58:16 - OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT, YOU

58:17 - BECOME MORE SEDENTARY.

58:18 - SO I READ A GREAT DEAL.

58:19 - I FOLLOW PUBLIC AFFAIRS IN THE

58:23 - NEWSPAPERS AND ON TELEVISION.

58:27 - AND I STILL FOLLOW MY BELOVED

58:29 - PITTSBURGH PIRATES THROUGH THEIR

58:33 - TRAVAILS.

58:33 - I'M A PIRATE FAN FIRST, LAST AND

58:35 - ALWAYS, BUT THAT'S MY CROSS TO

58:36 - BEAR.

58:39 - >> THIS MIGHT SEEM LIKE AN ODD

58:42 - QUESTION.

58:43 - ONCE YOUR DETINKTIVE TRADEMARK

58:46 - YOU'VE ALWAYS WORN A DISTINCTIVE

58:48 - TYPE OF GLASSES.

58:49 - A DECISION BUT KIND OF HAPPENED?

58:51 - >> FORCED ON ME BECAUSE MY

58:53 - VISION WENT BAD ON ME WHEN I WAS

58:54 - IN THE FOURTH GRADE.

58:55 - SO WHEN I WAS IN THE FOURTH

58:58 - GRADE, MY FIRST GLASSES, AND

59:01 - I'VE WORN VARIOUS STYLES.

59:02 - A SPELL WHERE I TRIED TO CONTACT

59:05 - LENSES.

59:05 - BUT THEY DIDN'T TAKE WITH ME.

59:07 - JUST -- MY EYESIGHT IS SO BAD.

59:10 - BUT I'VE HAD CATARACT SURGERY

59:15 - SUCCESSFULLY, AND MY GLASSES ARE

59:18 - AS MUCH A PART OF ME AS MY ARMS,

59:21 - LEGS AND THE NOSE ON MY FACE.

59:22 - IT IS KIND OF FUN, BECAUSE

59:25 - PEOPLE RECOGNIZE ME BECAUSE OF

59:29 - THAT.

59:29 - I THINK RIMMED GLASSES ARE NOT

59:32 - ALL THAT PREVALENT, BUT THEY

59:33 - SERVE ME WELL.

59:34 - >> WHAT DO YOU LIKE YOUR

59:35 - ULTIMATE LEGACY TO BE?

59:37 - >> I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO

59:39 - REMEMBER ME AS SOMEONE WHO WAS

59:46 - INTERESTED IN THE PUBLIC GOOD,

59:50 - IN SERVING CAUSES THAT WERE

59:53 - WORTHY, AND SERVING THEM FAIRLY

59:58 - 800 AND IN TRYING TO INTEGRATE ALL

01:00 - 07.203 THE VARIOUS INTERESTS THAT EXIST

01:00 - 08.738 IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND IN OUR

01:00 - 12.642 NATION AND IN OUR WORLD AND TO

01:00 - 17.580 ADVANCING THE CAUSE OF HUMAN

01:00 - 19.215 RIGHTS AND OF DEMOCRACY AND THE

01:00 - 24.387 RULE OF LAW.

01:00 - 25.655 >> GOVERNOR DICK THORNBURGH.

01:00 - 26.656 THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR

01:00 - 26.956 TIME.

01:00 - 27.390 >> THANK YOU.

01:00 - 30.727 GREAT PLEASURE.

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